Speaker 1: There probably is. I think to save all the blood
Speaker 1: on the floor. If you if you buy into the
Speaker 1: argument that the lives sout easide of they're not going
Speaker 1: to go away, the only answer is a compromise. If
Speaker 1: they're not going to go away, it doesn't nobody wins.
Speaker 1: If we just fight this fight for ten years, like
Speaker 1: the sooner they can get down and sit at the
Speaker 1: table and say, right, what does everybody want? You guys
Speaker 1: have lots of money, We have tradition and legitimacy. Um,
Speaker 1: how can we connect those two and make it great
Speaker 1: that he can't get jan nothing. What I'm thinking that
Speaker 1: he can't get them, I'm thinking Hello and welcome back
Speaker 1: to their Fire Drill podcast. This is Alan Schipnak. I
Speaker 1: have Michael Bamberg in Philadelphia and Jeff Ogilvie in Oz
Speaker 1: on the line. It's a huge day in golf. Tiger
Speaker 1: Woods flew into delaw Are, probably his first trip to Delaware.
Speaker 1: We could we could surmise um to be to have
Speaker 1: an audience with some of the game's biggest names. In
Speaker 1: the ongoing battle for the soul of golf between the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour and Live Golf. Patrick Reid, who had Brandell,
Speaker 1: Shamblee and the Golf Channel in Federal court. That just
Speaker 1: happened this afternoon. Who knows what else is gonna happen more.
Speaker 1: We're taping this podcast. There's so much going on, but uh,
Speaker 1: let's let's let's start with Jeff. You know, uh, you've
Speaker 1: you've been close to Tiger, You've observed him in different settings.
Speaker 1: He seems to really have taken on this this this
Speaker 1: role as the de facto commissioner, and um, what do
Speaker 1: you make of this evolution of Tiger from just this
Speaker 1: this golfer who lived in this bubble of his own making,
Speaker 1: who has now become the statesman and it's really trying
Speaker 1: to have a larger impact on the sport. Well, I
Speaker 1: think it's nice, and I mean it's uh, he's clearly
Speaker 1: always been a legacy guy like him, he had Nicholas
Speaker 1: has right going up on his wall. Like the reverence
Speaker 1: and respect he's got for the b g A Tour
Speaker 1: and sort of the traditional tournaments and all the way
Speaker 1: up has obviously been quite obvious. And he sees he
Speaker 1: doesn't like the direction. I don't think he hates Oh,
Speaker 1: this is meet guessing about Tiger. But I don't think
Speaker 1: he would hate the whole the financial windfall side of
Speaker 1: this thing. I just think he would be disappointed in
Speaker 1: the fact that it's a legacy tarnishing situation, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's such a great tradition to the tour
Speaker 1: and he's one of the most important players on the
Speaker 1: tour of all time. To sort of see that get
Speaker 1: broken up, I think would have hit him pretty hard.
Speaker 1: And it's nice. He's probably got the strongest voice. I mean,
Speaker 1: a lot of the players who are affected by this
Speaker 1: probably don't know him that well. You know, he's sort
Speaker 1: of a lot of these kids are gonna be young.
Speaker 1: I mean the kids this is really affecting the most
Speaker 1: as the ones in their twenties and early thirties, and
Speaker 1: a lot of them button that have really have been
Speaker 1: out there when Tiger was playing a lot. I think
Speaker 1: his weight and his sort of presence just in the room,
Speaker 1: to actually just fly in and get in the room
Speaker 1: would be pretty powerful for sort of Jay and that
Speaker 1: to his sort of things. So I think it's cool.
Speaker 1: It's cool that he's uh not just sitting back and
Speaker 1: observing that he's actually actively farting for something he belaves him,
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty cool, Michael. I mean, you
Speaker 1: literally wrote a book on Tiger, the Second Life of
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods, coming back from from some of his travails,
Speaker 1: and now he's moved into this final act of his career.
Speaker 1: It's clear he's not gonna be playing a lot of
Speaker 1: tournament golf going forward, and it's almost like he's looking
Speaker 1: for his his role. What do you make of of
Speaker 1: of where Tiger is right now? Together, we've written two
Speaker 1: books on Tiger, uh, but not really uh, Jeff Allen,
Speaker 1: I wrote a book, The Swinger, that features acational golf
Speaker 1: name treat dream Up. You know, I was really struck
Speaker 1: by that already five second clip. That's that's I think
Speaker 1: a million nearly a million people have already viewed of
Speaker 1: him just getting off a plane and getting into a
Speaker 1: Nissan rental car with Ricky Fowler as his eide kick.
Speaker 1: He's wearing a flannel shirt, he's not wearing a hat,
Speaker 1: and it looks like he's put on a little woods
Speaker 1: since we've last seen him in public, and he looks
Speaker 1: like an old NFL star showing up for you know,
Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame induction. I mean, I was just
Speaker 1: in there's that and in just the aging of Tiger Woods.
Speaker 1: You know, we're we're all enough where we've seen him
Speaker 1: as a kid. Now here is in his in his
Speaker 1: mid forties preparing for this leadership role. So the evolution
Speaker 1: of Tiger Woods, I think it's fastening al and I
Speaker 1: think he really hit on it. He's a very smart person.
Speaker 1: He's charismatic in his own sort of way, and he's
Speaker 1: got to have to he has a lot of thoughts.
Speaker 1: Of course, he's an intelligent person. Uh So he's looking
Speaker 1: for a future in the game. He I don't know
Speaker 1: how much he knows that, but if you look at
Speaker 1: his record, he's barely played since two thousand and sixteen.
Speaker 1: It's a miracle that he you know, he contended when
Speaker 1: he did in those two majors, and then one the
Speaker 1: one that he that he could win. Uh and then
Speaker 1: just one other quick note on tire, just the fact
Speaker 1: that just the fact that that video exists shows you
Speaker 1: the intensity that surrounds Tiger Woods and this particular setting
Speaker 1: because he gets off from private plans for other occasions
Speaker 1: and doesn't get a videotape, but he shows up at
Speaker 1: a hospital or he shows up for me like this,
Speaker 1: and the intrusion of it all. You know, here, here's
Speaker 1: a camera through a fence into a private rental car,
Speaker 1: and none of the three of us could imagine even
Speaker 1: living a life like that. Sorry for going on so
Speaker 1: long here, but I'm just struck. We have so few
Speaker 1: moments of actually seeing Tiger Woods, and the fact that,
Speaker 1: as you say, this major day in golf politics, that
Speaker 1: Tiger has risen and sort of taken over the stage
Speaker 1: is telling on a number of different levels. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's so funny, you know, the Tiger Phil rivalry. It's
Speaker 1: they in some way, it seemed like there there was
Speaker 1: this reapproachment and they were gonna they were gonna play
Speaker 1: exhibition golf into their into their sixties happily. And and
Speaker 1: now this schism is even bigger. You know, Fields gone
Speaker 1: to the dark side and a lot of people pop
Speaker 1: their imagination and Tigers fighting the good fight. And when
Speaker 1: you talk about legacy, I mean I always assumed they
Speaker 1: would be the honorary first tea starters at the Masters
Speaker 1: for you know, the next thirty years, whenever they were
Speaker 1: ready for it. And you have to wonder, is Phil
Speaker 1: going to get that chance now? And same with they're
Speaker 1: both gonna be incredible rider Cup captains. You know, Tiger
Speaker 1: may may have four or five cracks at it now
Speaker 1: because other guys have taken themselves out of the mix,
Speaker 1: and so Tiger has gone all in with the tour
Speaker 1: and and building this legacy feel has gone completely the
Speaker 1: other direction. And that just strikes me as someone who's
Speaker 1: followed them for their whole careers. But um, you didn't
Speaker 1: mention Tiger's jeans, which are always always commented upon he's got.
Speaker 1: I thought they very I thought they were very style.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know he's been mocked over the years,
Speaker 1: but I didn't note that they were properly fitting. And
Speaker 1: the shirt seemed to be I didn't know you could
Speaker 1: get a tailored flannel shirt, but he seems to be
Speaker 1: wearing a tailor flannel. She was like, he's evolved from
Speaker 1: mom jeans two dad jeans. It's better, but there's still
Speaker 1: a ways to go. But um, I mean, Jeff, this
Speaker 1: this becomes the overarching question in golf is, uh, what
Speaker 1: does that stake for these guys who have gone to
Speaker 1: live Are they really giving up history and legacy? Will
Speaker 1: there be a reapproachment? And we're starting to get early
Speaker 1: word what was said in in the rooms today, but
Speaker 1: we don't really know for sure. I mean, what is
Speaker 1: your take on is there a way back to unifying
Speaker 1: the sport where um you know, I mean, look at
Speaker 1: the European Writer Cup team. They've lost whole generation of
Speaker 1: captains potentially from Poulter and Garcia and Westwood and Kaimer
Speaker 1: and your President's Cup assistant captain. I mean potentially the
Speaker 1: President's Cup team this year is is could be missing
Speaker 1: a lot of great players, and um, it's not good
Speaker 1: for the game to have have this this cleave. Do
Speaker 1: you do you see a way back? I like the
Speaker 1: word cleave. Um, there has to be a way back,
Speaker 1: Like I don't There's too many players have gone now
Speaker 1: and I feel like in a couple of weeks after
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, obviously this is amazing to ay
Speaker 1: to prevent any more sort of players jumping, but it
Speaker 1: seems like there's some that have already decided that they're
Speaker 1: going to go they haven't gone yet, that have been
Speaker 1: talked about. There's going to be too many players on
Speaker 1: the lift side for them not to be some sort
Speaker 1: of compromise reunification down the road. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: cannot imagine the Masters running without twenty of the best
Speaker 1: fifty players in the world. I mean, they might not
Speaker 1: be reflected in the Visigal World Golf rankings, but they're
Speaker 1: just not going to do that. The Majors, I think,
Speaker 1: are the ones that are the real sort of a
Speaker 1: trump card for both sides really, because that's really they're
Speaker 1: the jewels of the sport. I just can't imagine them
Speaker 1: wanting to sort of undermine their torment by not having
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty of the best players in the world
Speaker 1: in their fields. So maybe for a year or something,
Speaker 1: but I just don't think that would go on in Definitely,
Speaker 1: the Other Cup is too important. The Presidents comes very
Speaker 1: important to the PGA Tour. I can't I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like a very long way away
Speaker 1: from sort of any sort of compromised reunification situation right now,
Speaker 1: but it's changing so rapidly daily that I think speculating
Speaker 1: about where we're going to be in the future is
Speaker 1: really difficult. I do know, I get the strong feeling
Speaker 1: from any sort of live related people that I talked to,
Speaker 1: not that I'm talking to on that respect for people
Speaker 1: who are more in the inner circle than I am
Speaker 1: that they're not going to go away. UM, they're here
Speaker 1: for the long term. UM. They're pretty committed to this.
Speaker 1: They think they've got a good idea, they're very well funded. Clearly, UM,
Speaker 1: they're not just going to come well that didn't work
Speaker 1: and go do something else. I think they're here for
Speaker 1: a long time. And I don't think that golf is
Speaker 1: too strong. Golf is too strong as a sport to
Speaker 1: stay fractured like that for too long. UM. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the past to that pathway that to that is,
Speaker 1: and it might take a year or two, but I
Speaker 1: think there's just too much. They've got too many players
Speaker 1: on their side now live for them to be completely
Speaker 1: sort of blackboard from golf for the rest of time.
Speaker 1: I just don't think that's going to happen. But Jeff
Speaker 1: can I can jump in here with the question regarding
Speaker 1: what some of you just said, if the majors of
Speaker 1: the Crown Jewels you want the best players in the
Speaker 1: world playing your majors of course players championship, I would
Speaker 1: I would say the same, How good do we know
Speaker 1: Henrik Stenson or Charles World So are really right now
Speaker 1: on a world stage by beating forty seven other guys
Speaker 1: over fifty four holes. In other words, let's say you
Speaker 1: can go down this road of some kind of unification,
Speaker 1: but how are you going to figure out really how
Speaker 1: to assess the quality of those fields with only forty
Speaker 1: eight players and only fifty four holes. It's such a
Speaker 1: different I mean, I would imagine, I don't know, this
Speaker 1: is title speculation that that live won't stay true to
Speaker 1: its name. It's fifty four, it will end up seventy two.
Speaker 1: I'm sure the fields will get a little bit bigger,
Speaker 1: which will be part of some sort of come from
Speaker 1: my situation, and they'll probably end up looking like w
Speaker 1: g cts um. This would just be a guess sort
Speaker 1: of some sort of negotiation with the Official World Golf
Speaker 1: Ranking sort of situation, and so it will be it
Speaker 1: will turn more into a normal golf tournament. I imagine
Speaker 1: if they want to coexist, it's going to have to
Speaker 1: write They're going to have to move a little bit
Speaker 1: um because the players, they won't continue to get players
Speaker 1: if it comes clear in the next tour months that
Speaker 1: they're never going to get into majors. Ever, they're kind
Speaker 1: of they're in a bit of a they've got a
Speaker 1: bit of a problem, you know, And if they just
Speaker 1: have to adjust their product a little bit to get
Speaker 1: their players to be able to access the majors, then
Speaker 1: I think they'll be fine. Um, Jeff go on, that's
Speaker 1: a great insight, because if if the studies are in
Speaker 1: for a billion or two billion, what's it to them
Speaker 1: to come in for three billion. That's a pressure point
Speaker 1: actually in favor of the PG two ur They're saying,
Speaker 1: we've got something. You want world golf ranking points, but
Speaker 1: if you want them, you've got to put up even more.
Speaker 1: And there what's another billion of them? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Billion dollars a lot of money to most people. But
Speaker 1: if they're committed to this for the long term, it
Speaker 1: seems like they are. I imagine that they would move
Speaker 1: to a more palatable product. I mean, maybe their idea
Speaker 1: is that it's a stale product and it needs to
Speaker 1: be different, But um, if they want the best players
Speaker 1: in the world, they're going to have to sort of
Speaker 1: just to a format that's respected and recognized by the majors. Um,
Speaker 1: I would think, I mean, this is just guesswork, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I just think that they've got too many players on
Speaker 1: their side now when I understand what you're saying about
Speaker 1: their older players, but there's going to be some younger ones,
Speaker 1: particularly one that's been strongly rumored who wanted st Andrew's
Speaker 1: if that ends up actually happening, that's arguably the best
Speaker 1: player in the world at the moment, or very close
Speaker 1: to going over, who's clearly got ten fifteen, ten years
Speaker 1: at least of prime to go, and whoever goes along
Speaker 1: with him after we see east Lake. Um, it's this,
Speaker 1: it's truly cleve like, it's truly in half? Right is
Speaker 1: Cleveman in half? Is that half? Or is it just split? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And more like a split. I mean, cleavage would be
Speaker 1: a derivative of it. So if you can can get
Speaker 1: that mental image. But um, yeah, well, I mean let's
Speaker 1: so let's talk about cam Smith because you guys are
Speaker 1: different generations. Um, but you're from the same island and
Speaker 1: you know, people around live have told me it's a
Speaker 1: done deal. Now things can change and that was actually
Speaker 1: before the open so who knows, you know, whatever deal
Speaker 1: might have been in place, that could have gotten torn
Speaker 1: up and maybe they added another zero. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not just that he's possibly the best player in the world,
Speaker 1: It's also that he's young, as also that he's defending
Speaker 1: champion at the Open Championship. So when you get into
Speaker 1: well the live guys get to play majors, there's no
Speaker 1: scenario that the RNA does not want Cam Smith to
Speaker 1: defend his title, and they're gonna have to. That's a
Speaker 1: workaround that's gonna have to be part of this whole calculation.
Speaker 1: But you know everything we've heard about Cam he's just
Speaker 1: this low key guy who just wants to fish. He
Speaker 1: doesn't care about money. Um, of course we all care
Speaker 1: about money on some level, but he doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: the ideal candidate for live golf. But um, let's just
Speaker 1: say for this thought exercise that he is going and
Speaker 1: he is making the jump. What do you think the
Speaker 1: appeal is for Cam Smith? Well, I think for guys
Speaker 1: like that, they obviously, I mean, we're not proving to
Speaker 1: the conversations that they're having. We don't know lives plans
Speaker 1: apart from what they've told put out in public. We
Speaker 1: don't know what they have planned. They might have some
Speaker 1: amazing The road map that they've sold these guys that
Speaker 1: were on the way to this premium tour might maybe
Speaker 1: it ends up seventy two holes. Maybe it ends up
Speaker 1: slightly bigger fields. Maybe there's we don't know what they're
Speaker 1: telling them. They're obviously selling them more than just money.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, I don't know what would go through.
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't in camps position. I mean, I say,
Speaker 1: my peak of my powers after the US Open or
Speaker 1: something of someone had come up and said, I've got
Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars for you to come and play
Speaker 1: this other tour over here. That would have been a
Speaker 1: pretty hard thing to say no to. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: pretty signal forget money. I mean, we're not all about
Speaker 1: the money. Um. But on one level, professional golfers termed
Speaker 1: professional one so they can play the biggest events, but
Speaker 1: two so they can not have a real job and
Speaker 1: actually get golfers and get paid paid. You know, Like, um,
Speaker 1: if if there have been assured that you're going to
Speaker 1: get in all the majors, well argue, but I don't
Speaker 1: know how they are and A and or that are
Speaker 1: going to keep exempt players out, you know, like the Masters,
Speaker 1: like they're they're already exempt. I understand. Like if if
Speaker 1: you drop out of the world rankings, out of the
Speaker 1: top fifty by playing not playing regular ranking scoring tournaments.
Speaker 1: They can say, well, you didn't qualify for the Masters,
Speaker 1: is sure you can't get in you're not in the
Speaker 1: top fifty. But for Dustin Johnson a minute, or Patrick
Speaker 1: Read or Shortz or or there's a lot of green
Speaker 1: coat jackets that they're not going to have at the tournament.
Speaker 1: I don't imagine they're going to do that, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean camp they are and are going to say, well,
Speaker 1: if you're already exempt, you get into, but you won't
Speaker 1: be able to get into the top fifty in the
Speaker 1: world if you're not playing regular tournaments, you know. So
Speaker 1: I think I think the majors are just they've got
Speaker 1: time on their side. Is it's all sort of coming
Speaker 1: to a head at the moment. We've got all the
Speaker 1: way till April for four Masters have to make a
Speaker 1: call on that. It's interesting. I don't know. In Cam's head,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never had a hundred million dollar
Speaker 1: check plus put in front of me, so I don't
Speaker 1: know what I would do. Um And as I said,
Speaker 1: if there's sort of plans down the road to sort
Speaker 1: of expand the model of live that we've seen, maybe
Speaker 1: there's phase two looks a lot more attractive. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe they know stuff that we don't know. Um, but
Speaker 1: makes it a bit easier to go do that. But
Speaker 1: it's clearly not a very easy decision because if it's
Speaker 1: actually true that he's going, and he's been given his
Speaker 1: offered his money that we've been off he probably would
Speaker 1: have just gone, you know, like why why why wait
Speaker 1: around for FedEx Cup money which is totally insignificant for
Speaker 1: from the lift money, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: he's obviously it's obviously a hard decision. Um, I don't know,
Speaker 1: he's a knock around buck and he's a he's a
Speaker 1: good guy. I think it's an interesting one because he's
Speaker 1: a sort of I feel like he's one of those
Speaker 1: universally loved players. Have we had a really universally loved
Speaker 1: player who's young go there yet? You know, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: DJ is pretty universally DJ is pretty universally loved. But
Speaker 1: there's some a little bit of tiny bit of baggage
Speaker 1: maybe with DJ, but everyone else does that mean there's
Speaker 1: Patrick Reid and a lot of like from an American perspective,
Speaker 1: Bryce and I mean, no one really truly universally loved
Speaker 1: but now Cam. Everybody loves Cam, you know, and there's
Speaker 1: I imagine on the lip side of things, there's a
Speaker 1: there's a feeling that it might change public sentiment a
Speaker 1: little bit if Cam went, you know, and Leash. Everybody
Speaker 1: loves Leash, you know, like to put him and he's
Speaker 1: always seems to be in that same Cam Unleash. You're
Speaker 1: going to go conversation. Um, I don't know, it'll be interesting.
Speaker 1: The more popular, the more players that have, and the
Speaker 1: more popular characters they get on their side sort of
Speaker 1: the more leverage they've got for a compromise, you know, um,
Speaker 1: because at some point the PGR two sponsors are going
Speaker 1: to come out and say, we'll hang on a minute.
Speaker 1: You promised me all these players that you can't promise me.
Speaker 1: I want Cam Smith in my tournament. I want these
Speaker 1: guys in the tournament. So it's going to create issues
Speaker 1: all down the line if you don't have twenty or
Speaker 1: thirty of the most popular players, but wherever they're ranked,
Speaker 1: if they don't have well ranking points, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: People are going to assume it's almost to camps fists
Speaker 1: benefit if he wasn't in the ranking, because if he
Speaker 1: keeps winning lift tournaments. People are going to assume he's
Speaker 1: the best player in the world, but he's not going
Speaker 1: to be in the rankings, so there's all sorts of
Speaker 1: issues coming up. I don't know. It's as I said,
Speaker 1: if you had a hundred million dollar check in front
Speaker 1: of you, a lot of people would have hard time
Speaker 1: not taking that deal. Most people, I would imagine real quick.
Speaker 1: But let me just ask you this, Jeff. There's been
Speaker 1: some thinking that you know, Cam was waiting until after
Speaker 1: the President's Cup because he wants to play in that
Speaker 1: and it would be you know, it's a feather in
Speaker 1: the cap, and he would obviously be one of the
Speaker 1: most important players on your team. Do you have any
Speaker 1: reconnaissance about where what is thinking is for the President's
Speaker 1: Cup that you can share. We don't really. He's playing
Speaker 1: a very excellent if he is going to go before
Speaker 1: the President's Cup, he's playing an amazing game of poker,
Speaker 1: you know, like we have zero sense, Like it feels
Speaker 1: like it feels like he's going to play the President's Cup,
Speaker 1: but when you read the newspaper and stuff, it seems
Speaker 1: like it could be any day, like and now he's
Speaker 1: injured this week, which adds us to a bit of
Speaker 1: the intrigue and um, yeah, well from for all intents
Speaker 1: and purposes, it's he's not communicating as much as like
Speaker 1: all the guys who are like sort of deep inlift
Speaker 1: conversations that they're obviously there's instructions to not communicate too much,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, but our feeling is he's going to play.
Speaker 1: But again we don't really know because it's not like
Speaker 1: there's long conversations every day with those guys. You know,
Speaker 1: Jeff who who is his number one advisor? And what
Speaker 1: is that person? Like? Um? I will he's managed by
Speaker 1: Bud Martin, um, and I don't know you guys know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's a prickly one. You know, he's been
Speaker 1: Jason Day's guy for ever and various other players. I
Speaker 1: like Bud, but he's he's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: ball buster and it's tough to anything out of him.
Speaker 1: So that sort of checks out. Yeah, just just a
Speaker 1: short and this is not an insight. Uh, this would
Speaker 1: be what I think, I hope I would be like
Speaker 1: this if I won the Players Championship. You know that
Speaker 1: the crown jewel of the PGA Tour and a Monahan
Speaker 1: or Tiger Woods or anybody said, well, you won this
Speaker 1: player's championship, you know, just like I did, and a
Speaker 1: bunch of other good players. The other things that are
Speaker 1: really important this tour are the FedEx Cup playoffs and
Speaker 1: the President's Cup. They're all sort of p J tour products.
Speaker 1: I think it would be nice if you stuck around
Speaker 1: to the end of the year. Just from the Little
Speaker 1: Life sin to cam Smith and Press your interviews. He
Speaker 1: seems like the kind of bloke could be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I should stick around for the end of the year.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. It doesn't seem like given that you just
Speaker 1: catch to check with three million, doesn't seem like that
Speaker 1: big and ask. I mean, look, it's a long term decision, right,
Speaker 1: this live thing. It's not. It doesn't really matter if
Speaker 1: you go this week, next week or in six months time.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's clearly it's a career changing decision, and
Speaker 1: it changing jobs, judging jobs for changing companies that you
Speaker 1: work for. Right, So yeah, it doesn't need to happen.
Speaker 1: It's not clearly not an instant. But I imagine on
Speaker 1: the lip side of things, um, the more leverage they get.
Speaker 1: I assume that the President's Cup and the Ryder Cup
Speaker 1: was two of their targets. It feels like, um, just
Speaker 1: sort of do some damage to the President's Cup and
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup, which because gives them a bit more
Speaker 1: power in the room. But I don't know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like you said, you wouldn't You're not rushing a decision
Speaker 1: like that, and there's no need to rush a decision
Speaker 1: like that. Why wouldn't you finish out the year? I mean,
Speaker 1: you've had a great year. I mean I can't ever
Speaker 1: think of the year not starting at Cappelwa. So just
Speaker 1: all I can remember from this season is the domination
Speaker 1: at Cappeluah was just so fun to watch, Like I've
Speaker 1: seen this has been the year of Cam and Scottie Scheffley.
Speaker 1: You know, why wouldn't you be around at the end
Speaker 1: for me? And then the President's Complement is such a
Speaker 1: fun tournament like it's and it's a quail Hollo one
Speaker 1: of the two is cooler spots, and um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't imagine why you wouldn't. But again I'm not in
Speaker 1: all these conversations, so like, yeah, what about what about
Speaker 1: Hideaki because he's obviously his name has been in play
Speaker 1: for a long time, and he would be an anchor
Speaker 1: for the international teams. Do you have any any insight
Speaker 1: into which way the winds blowing around Hideki. No, there's
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of rumors, I mean, and clearly there's
Speaker 1: a lost in translation. Sometimes he's a talking about a
Speaker 1: card player, like he's brilliant at not giving anything away.
Speaker 1: A Decki um our more concern as he went back
Speaker 1: to Japan to get his neck looked at us him,
Speaker 1: I think this week, um, he's a little bit injured.
Speaker 1: I don't think we have a live concern with Dei Um.
Speaker 1: There's clearly a massive offer. Well, there's rumors, have it,
Speaker 1: you guys for everyone's heard it that they would love
Speaker 1: that Japanese market. Um. But as far as President's Cup,
Speaker 1: her Decki has been very active on our group chats
Speaker 1: and stuff, and he's very invested in the tournament. And
Speaker 1: our concern would be injury rather than him not being
Speaker 1: available for sure, I mean we need he's one of
Speaker 1: the best players in the world. Oh yeah, yeah, he
Speaker 1: has a presence about him. When when you look at
Speaker 1: the international players who have gone to live and it's
Speaker 1: effect on the President's Cup, maybe answer has certainly been
Speaker 1: a key guy for you guys. Um possibly used, maybe Ortiz,
Speaker 1: maybe Grace. Are those the four the four that hurt
Speaker 1: anyone else? I'm forgetting. I think the two that really
Speaker 1: hurt Louis and Um. Louis has been in a lot,
Speaker 1: and he's sort of he was the class clown, the
Speaker 1: spirit in the bus. You know, he was bringing everyone
Speaker 1: together just by just not taking anything too seriously. He
Speaker 1: was a fun guy on the team, and he's been
Speaker 1: there a lot. And Louis, for whatever he's probably arguably
Speaker 1: in a way may be underachieved and just regular things,
Speaker 1: but as soon as it becomes a big moment, Louie
Speaker 1: is about as good as it gets. And he's a
Speaker 1: big moment guy, and the president comes about big moments.
Speaker 1: Louis and Abe, and Abe was obviously great last time.
Speaker 1: We had that little sort of back and forward the
Speaker 1: Tiger a little bit, and they had that great singles
Speaker 1: matter and it was a sort of a great sort
Speaker 1: of atmosphere there for their match last time, and he
Speaker 1: was probably really excited about it. So they're they're they're
Speaker 1: a loss for sure, and look not to cry poor
Speaker 1: on talent, but our top twelve in the US Top twelve.
Speaker 1: We're a little, probably bit behind, a tiny bit on talent,
Speaker 1: but once you start removing people from the team, it's
Speaker 1: the U S team is so deep. I mean, the
Speaker 1: second twelve are pretty strong in the US team, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, whereas ours drops off a little bit more.
Speaker 1: So it probably hurts us. I mean, I know the
Speaker 1: US team has probably lost a couple of guys, but
Speaker 1: it probably hurts us a little bit more. But there's
Speaker 1: going to be a pretty strong feeling I imagine in
Speaker 1: our team that nobody thinks we can win, So like,
Speaker 1: come on, guys, let's show them. And we all know
Speaker 1: that anyone's capable of bending anyone else on any given day.
Speaker 1: And I think match plays more about headspace m anyway.
Speaker 1: So it's going to be it's gonna be a different
Speaker 1: looking team than we imagine six months ago, probably missing
Speaker 1: a couple at the moment, hopefully only a couple, um,
Speaker 1: but I think it will be as I said, I mean,
Speaker 1: anyone in the top fifty players in the world can
Speaker 1: have a good day and beat anybody else, you know,
Speaker 1: And if you get that spirit, We've seen it with
Speaker 1: great team, have seen it with a rat Cup in
Speaker 1: with Europe, a lot of times there that they had
Speaker 1: zero chance on paper, but they would completely dominate. I
Speaker 1: think there's a chance for our team to create that
Speaker 1: sort of feeling because of what's going on, you know,
Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting. This is so off the news.
Speaker 1: You may be annoyed that I'm even asking the question,
Speaker 1: but I am curious, as Jeff, what's your overall take
Speaker 1: on Cam Smith playing that ball right off the red line,
Speaker 1: not knowing the ruling, and then getting the penalty a
Speaker 1: day later. Um, I don't love that stuff. Um, well,
Speaker 1: there's too so. I mean, as a general high level
Speaker 1: of feeling of the rules. UM, I always feel like
Speaker 1: if the player didn't get an unfair advantage, then they
Speaker 1: shouldn't be penalized, you know. I mean that the rules
Speaker 1: are really there so people don't get unfair advantages, you know, effectively. Um,
Speaker 1: it's actually difficult to play off the paint. The paint
Speaker 1: is a bit stickier. You'd rather not be on the paint. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone in that field would have said, oh, sure,
Speaker 1: camp delets a two shot penalty there, you've got an
Speaker 1: advantage for doing that. So I don't really love that
Speaker 1: the idea, but the other side of that is we're
Speaker 1: golfers who grow up knowing that the rules are the
Speaker 1: rules and the way they are, and it's our responsibility
Speaker 1: to know the rules, and if we don't, if we're
Speaker 1: not sure, we got to ask an official, and there's
Speaker 1: never an official too far away. So it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of on Cam forgetting it wrong. I think it's definitely
Speaker 1: on Camp for getting wrong, and probably arguably it does
Speaker 1: have a penalty if you get it wrong. But I
Speaker 1: think on a high level, I don't think we should
Speaker 1: get penalties for stuff like that because I don't think
Speaker 1: he's getting advantage out of I think the rules committee
Speaker 1: is looking at again, you know what, you broke the rule, Cam.
Speaker 1: Next time, you've got to make sure you know on
Speaker 1: the line. And but it's not like he's cheating the
Speaker 1: field by hitting it off the line, you know, Whereas
Speaker 1: if you take it wrong, dropping you closer to the hole,
Speaker 1: or there's some sort of sort of violation that clearly
Speaker 1: like you've got the wrong grooves in your wedge or
Speaker 1: all those things, are your ball rolls closer to the
Speaker 1: hole in the grain or something like one of those things.
Speaker 1: I think there's a there's an argument, could he's got
Speaker 1: an advantage out of it, But it's a little bit
Speaker 1: like the dustin thing, right, it's a completely different rule.
Speaker 1: But like no one in the field got dustin, didn't
Speaker 1: get advantaged by his ball rolling on the green there oak,
Speaker 1: but there was no advantage to it. Um. But that's
Speaker 1: more of a high level discussion and that specific Okay,
Speaker 1: was that enough on the fence? That was a bit
Speaker 1: on the fence? Just very briefly, what is the logic
Speaker 1: by which if you take really if you must take
Speaker 1: complete full relief? Um, I don't know. You have to
Speaker 1: ask the s g A and the RNA. I've always
Speaker 1: got ground under repair, was always a complete relief situation
Speaker 1: because the ground is under repair and the superintendent of
Speaker 1: the course wants you to stay off that area. So
Speaker 1: if you drop your ball out of it, get out
Speaker 1: of it. You know, um has it? I'm not really
Speaker 1: sure to be honest, because you're allowed to play out
Speaker 1: of a hazard. You know, if the balls on the
Speaker 1: other side of the line and he was chipping from
Speaker 1: if his ball had ended up an inch on the
Speaker 1: other side of the line, and it just state that
Speaker 1: he just would have chipped it, And that's fine. Um,
Speaker 1: but I guess if you're taking relief, I guess that
Speaker 1: theory is if you take relief, you have to take relief.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's you have to ask them blue coats.
Speaker 1: The other part that's interesting about this is, you know,
Speaker 1: the rules of golf have evolved where they're trying to
Speaker 1: take away the fan at home from calling in violations,
Speaker 1: and you know the Lexie Thompson rules basically ended that practice.
Speaker 1: But you have this actual PG to a rules official
Speaker 1: who's watching a late night replay, and that's where the
Speaker 1: violation was flagged. Like, to me, that kind of falls
Speaker 1: under the LEXI really, I mean he is an official,
Speaker 1: but it didn't happen during the competition. He was no
Speaker 1: longer the person saw the infraction, was no longer at
Speaker 1: the tournament site. You know, he's on his couch, and like, um,
Speaker 1: you know you've you've to me it violates the spirit
Speaker 1: of the new rule, which is we don't want people
Speaker 1: at home calling penalties. I guess because this is a
Speaker 1: tour official, it's slightly different. But um, even that, you
Speaker 1: know that you can make an argument that one once
Speaker 1: two hours, four hours whatever, once someone's had dinner, whatever,
Speaker 1: the line of demarcation is like the statue of limitation
Speaker 1: should expire, but in this case it went led all
Speaker 1: the way into the next day, which is the nightmare
Speaker 1: scenario because it not only did it affect of the pairings,
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, more to the point, all the
Speaker 1: people who are wagering on the final round and the
Speaker 1: outcome put their money down before knowing about the penalty,
Speaker 1: and it just got super duper messy. I mean, what
Speaker 1: does your take, Jeff on just the ability to um
Speaker 1: beyond this particular rule and the red line. But should
Speaker 1: we be able to retroactively award penalties when new information emerges?
Speaker 1: Probably not, You're right, I mean, it's too complicated and messy.
Speaker 1: And from a player's perspective inside the ropes, generally speaking,
Speaker 1: if you're playing partners are fine with it, it should
Speaker 1: be fine, you know what I mean, And there should
Speaker 1: be you've got you've always got a feeling when a
Speaker 1: guy is taking a drop if you're not very happy
Speaker 1: with it or you're happy with it as a player. Um,
Speaker 1: If if you're playing partners are fine with it, and
Speaker 1: it goes and the scorecards go in, I mean they're in,
Speaker 1: you know, like I think there should AH certainly be well,
Speaker 1: I thought we did have their statute limitations, but I
Speaker 1: assumed that. But I imagine the rules official is different
Speaker 1: from just a random caller. Um. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think you should be able to get a
Speaker 1: pendley basically after your scorecards in really if there's any issue, Um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people watching professional golf tournaments. That
Speaker 1: was on the broadcast. By issue, obviously it was on
Speaker 1: the broadcast because he saw it on a replay. If
Speaker 1: it's not caught in the broadcast and the school by
Speaker 1: the time it gets in, I guess it should be over. Um,
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Are there situations where what if
Speaker 1: somebody gets found out the next morning to have a
Speaker 1: drive that doesn't pass the test, or you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, he's been using it all week, or I
Speaker 1: don't know. There's obviously going to be exceptions to the
Speaker 1: black and white rule, common sense and to pro viole
Speaker 1: at some point, as I said, there's no advantage, he
Speaker 1: had no advantage ing enough not having it half an
Speaker 1: inch more away from the line, there's no it's almost
Speaker 1: the disadvantages they're playing off the paint, and I don't
Speaker 1: think any player in the field would have kid that
Speaker 1: he played it from there, you know, it isn't that
Speaker 1: the point of the rules? Yeah, but just to to
Speaker 1: to play Devil's advocate here. If if that becomes the standard,
Speaker 1: then you have to have someone to adjudicate all these decisions,
Speaker 1: like there's a rule, but did you get an advantage
Speaker 1: or not? And then you're gonna have to go to
Speaker 1: a tribunal. Who's gonna have to decide these things? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, if the rules a rule and either you
Speaker 1: break it you didn't, it's pretty black and white. But
Speaker 1: if you get into intent advantage, then then it's starting
Speaker 1: to get a little murky, right, and someone's gonna have
Speaker 1: to to answer those questions in real time over and over.
Speaker 1: I this, Yeah, Well, I don't know. I just think
Speaker 1: it's all take it just a little bit too seriously.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think, like you've said it here, like the wagering.
Speaker 1: I think whenever you introduced gambling to any sport, the
Speaker 1: the rules officiating an adjudication of the rules in the
Speaker 1: sport just gets over the type. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you have to watch NFL for ten minutes to realize
Speaker 1: that you almost can't have a rule, a decision that's
Speaker 1: not viewed over fifty four times to make sure that
Speaker 1: it's like by the letter of the law. It would
Speaker 1: be a shame if golf went that way, But if
Speaker 1: you want to introduce gambling to a sport, that's where
Speaker 1: it's going to end up. Hopefully there's a common sense
Speaker 1: situation where we can just basically play golf like we
Speaker 1: normally do. Ercent of golfers I've ever played with fastidious
Speaker 1: about the rules, and they there they would they wouldn't
Speaker 1: improve their life, no one was watching because they just
Speaker 1: wouldn't feel like a proper golfer if they did it.
Speaker 1: I hope we can retain that spirit and everyone can
Speaker 1: understand that that's really none know I'm putting on percent
Speaker 1: a golfer's perspective is that I wouldn't be I couldn't
Speaker 1: sleep at not if I knew I'd done something wrong.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure Cam's designment, but we just innocently just
Speaker 1: didn't know he did anything wrong. In that situation, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd be a shamed if we went that way, where
Speaker 1: we actually have the video review every rule, and have
Speaker 1: rules officials in every group and have someone standing our
Speaker 1: view every time you take a drop, and I think
Speaker 1: it would be a shame. Okay, Well, since we're talking
Speaker 1: about the rules and um and how players view themselves
Speaker 1: and their reputations, let's just get to this lawsuit that
Speaker 1: Patrick read filed against Brandal Shambilee and Golf Channel. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's interesting because then he's gonna have
Speaker 1: to he's opening us all to a lot of scrutiny here.
Speaker 1: But what was interesting. I read through the whole thirty
Speaker 1: page brief, and um, it's it's interesting reading. I'll say that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Reid has there's a couple different attentions.
Speaker 1: One is that that Shamble and the Golf Channel have
Speaker 1: damaged his reputation and cost him a lot of money
Speaker 1: in the marketplace. That might be easier to prove than
Speaker 1: because what they keep coming back to is he didn't
Speaker 1: intentionally cheat. Uh that he was he was exonerated by
Speaker 1: rules officials on the scene or they gave him two
Speaker 1: stroke penalty for not knowing the rule, but they didn't
Speaker 1: just qualify him for purposely cheating. So it's a very
Speaker 1: interesting thing because they cite in this in this, in
Speaker 1: this lawsuit, over and over the fact that that he
Speaker 1: was exonerated by the rules officials and or Okay, he
Speaker 1: broke the rule, it was a mistake, he accepted the penalty,
Speaker 1: but that making mistakes not the same as cheating, and
Speaker 1: you can't prove intent. So this is gonna get this
Speaker 1: is gonna play out in you know, federal court some
Speaker 1: of these some of these things you're talking about, Jeff,
Speaker 1: which what is your take on on a player taking
Speaker 1: taking this issue into the court system. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: This is why ants out of my realm of normal
Speaker 1: thinking about golf. I uh, I'll leave that one to
Speaker 1: those guys. I think it's a shame. Uh, it's a shine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean look, I think yeah, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know where to go on. I
Speaker 1: think journalists should be allowed to do their job and
Speaker 1: if they say something and they want to say something,
Speaker 1: that should be alowed to say something. There's obviously always
Speaker 1: been some sort of protections for journalists and there should be.
Speaker 1: That's your role is to sort throw an opinion out there.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's it's murky. I'll just stay away.
Speaker 1: As I said, I think journalist should be able to
Speaker 1: say what they want, but obviously there's within reason. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know all the specifics. You read the thing.
Speaker 1: You probably can say more to this than I can,
Speaker 1: because you've read the brief, which is an impressive thing
Speaker 1: to do in itself. I'm a legal analyst. Now you know.
Speaker 1: I was up in the Courtrooan San Jose, so I've
Speaker 1: I'm taking out a new role here. Michael, what do
Speaker 1: you think about this? I know that part of your
Speaker 1: discomfort with this, the whole emergence of Live is that
Speaker 1: it's just the gentleman's game, and now everyone's mad at
Speaker 1: each other and pointing fingers and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: unhappiness and rancor. So this just adds another log on
Speaker 1: the fire. What's your take on this list? I think
Speaker 1: Brandon has done a very good job of standing up
Speaker 1: not for quote traditional values, but that the rules of
Speaker 1: Sacro sanct and even Nick Falda right there in the
Speaker 1: moment was part of me. If I don't have this correct,
Speaker 1: but I think that I do. I think it was
Speaker 1: Nick Faldo was saying it's extremely unusual, and Jeff would
Speaker 1: attested this. I I believe he would. I'm sure he
Speaker 1: would it's extremely unusual to see a player touching golf ball.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like almost like a soccer football player, uh,
Speaker 1: touching a football um with his hand during play without
Speaker 1: bringing people over to do it first. So, you know,
Speaker 1: just talking about the San Diego event and then going
Speaker 1: and then going to the Bahamas event, I assume they're
Speaker 1: they're discussed. I have not read the brief yet. Alan
Speaker 1: Kudosi here for doing so. Um uh. But then in
Speaker 1: the Bahamas event, you know again, Ricky Fowler was commenting
Speaker 1: on how bizarre it was for that clubhead to make
Speaker 1: contact with the sand before he played the before he
Speaker 1: played the shot. So um. To Jeff's point, in our profession,
Speaker 1: this is what we do. Uh, we comment, we interpret,
Speaker 1: we report and um. And this is like a chilling effect.
Speaker 1: And Brandall's felt it before. And um, I'm sure he
Speaker 1: lives at this to this day. But in two thousand thirteen,
Speaker 1: when Tiger had that problem um in the woods at
Speaker 1: the BMW event, maybe Jeff was playing in that event
Speaker 1: that week. Um, Brandall called it as he saw it.
Speaker 1: I would say he did his job. I basically wrote
Speaker 1: pretty much what Brandon was Branda was saying, and and
Speaker 1: Brandall paid for it. He felt the full part of me,
Speaker 1: He felt the full weight of Mark Steinberg and Tiger
Speaker 1: Woods and the PGA Tour and Golf Channel's relationship with
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods, and um, you know, are all of our cultures, uh,
Speaker 1: in our society, in democratic societies, are based on these
Speaker 1: checks and balance systems. So we'd be lost without him.
Speaker 1: So I agree with Jeff. It is a shame him,
Speaker 1: but it is happening, and um, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: telling again about just the fact that the suit exists
Speaker 1: reveals more about Patrick Read, how he plays golf, how
Speaker 1: he talks about golf, the way he talked to the
Speaker 1: rules official at San Diego. I mean, people reveal themselves
Speaker 1: in all sorts of different ways. And I guess one
Speaker 1: of the things you have to take from this lawsuit
Speaker 1: is not what does this say about Brande shamble in
Speaker 1: Golf Channel, but what does it say about Patrick Reed?
Speaker 1: The fact that he even filed the suit? Right, and
Speaker 1: you know his choice of lawyers. It's this arch conservative
Speaker 1: who filed the number of lawsuits against Hillary Clinton and
Speaker 1: he's been involved in a lot of uh messy litigation.
Speaker 1: So um, it is revealing. But what was what was
Speaker 1: fascinating is it reads more like a public relations document,
Speaker 1: and that the whole thing that Tiger and Brandle is
Speaker 1: cited in some detail in Our friend Mark Steinberg is
Speaker 1: quoted at length and it's quite interesting. But the bulk
Speaker 1: of the brief is really about live golf, and they
Speaker 1: they are asserting that the co defendants, Brandle and the
Speaker 1: and the Golf Channel are conspiring with the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: to damage live golf, and that some of the things
Speaker 1: that Brandle said about MBS, the Saudi Arabian government calling them,
Speaker 1: you know, murderers and everything like that, by association there,
Speaker 1: they're now putting that label on Patrick Reed. And so
Speaker 1: even it's just incredible the tentacles of this story, how
Speaker 1: they keep spreading throughout the golf and the sports world.
Speaker 1: So now there's I was joking about being legal analysts,
Speaker 1: but not entirely because this is the second legal brief
Speaker 1: I've read in the span of a week, because I
Speaker 1: was in the courtroom when that injunction was heard about.
Speaker 1: You know, the three live guys were trying to force
Speaker 1: their way into the into the PGA Tour, Fedics Cup events,
Speaker 1: and so it's just a wild time. I mean, ordinarily
Speaker 1: we'd be talking about, you know, golf courses and golf shots.
Speaker 1: I mean that hasn't even discussed on this podcast because
Speaker 1: all these macro developments that it just kind of makes
Speaker 1: my head spin. I get uh, and it sends. Patrick
Speaker 1: read his second page right out of the Trump playbook.
Speaker 1: I was with Trump at his web course was at
Speaker 1: the West Pond Beach Course, and as I remember, his
Speaker 1: West Bond Beach Course had been in the top hundred
Speaker 1: on the Golf Digest lists, and that had fallen, by
Speaker 1: Trump's accounting to one oh one, so it wasn't on
Speaker 1: the list. And he said the reason was because Ron
Speaker 1: Witten had made a thirty six on the eighteenth pole
Speaker 1: by depositing twelve consecutive balls into a water hazard. And
Speaker 1: then he said that Ron Witton skipped lunch and went
Speaker 1: to the range and came back for the dessert course
Speaker 1: and had worked everything out by that point. But anyway,
Speaker 1: a digression to say that Trump was going to sue
Speaker 1: Golf Digest in Shrump's so language, of course, was as
Speaker 1: you know, essentially a pr campaign saying that it was
Speaker 1: a rig system. And I don't I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't believe it is a rig system. But but but
Speaker 1: Trump was going to contend that it was and that
Speaker 1: they were conspiring to keep Trump out of the top hundred.
Speaker 1: Uh So it looks like Pat reed based on about
Speaker 1: the same Yeah. Yeah, And it's I mean, Jeff, you're
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're an insiders insider. I mean, you're
Speaker 1: a President's Cup captain, and even though you haven't been
Speaker 1: playing as much competitive golf, I mean, you're you're part
Speaker 1: of this very exclusive fraternity as a US Open champion
Speaker 1: and and all these things, and um, you know, for us,
Speaker 1: this is all a gift from the content gods. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's been. It's it's made this whole year incredibly interesting,
Speaker 1: and it's it's not going to quit. Clearly for you
Speaker 1: as as someone who's on the outside looking in from Australia,
Speaker 1: but he's also you know, in these inner sanctums in
Speaker 1: the team rooms and whatever. How does all this hit
Speaker 1: you emotionally? Where this this very chaotic moment in golf.
Speaker 1: It's it's just kyote, It's crazy. Um, I just hope
Speaker 1: there's not too much blood on the floor at the
Speaker 1: end of it, you know, I mean, I can't see
Speaker 1: golf and not finding its way through this. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's too old, it's too good, there's too much tradition,
Speaker 1: it's too loved around the world. It's just all this
Speaker 1: carnage and this this personal attacks on people. I just
Speaker 1: think it's sad, Like you say that we're not sitting
Speaker 1: here talking about the merits of the FedEx Cup playoffs
Speaker 1: and the upcoming President's Cup and um reminiscing on the
Speaker 1: Scheffler Smith sort of year of domination. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's like, I just hope we can find our way
Speaker 1: through with the p g A Tour not taking too
Speaker 1: much damage because I think it's the best game in town.
Speaker 1: It always has been. I think there's the tradition. Um,
Speaker 1: that's some great tournaments, some really old tournaments have been
Speaker 1: around a long time. You've just got go the way
Speaker 1: back to like Jack and Arnold sort of formalizing it,
Speaker 1: but even back to Sneed and Nelson and Hogan and
Speaker 1: all that. I mean, I just think there's too much
Speaker 1: tradition for it to be too jeopardized. And I sure,
Speaker 1: I just hope that it ends up relatively undamaged. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't wish Ill Will of any of the global
Speaker 1: I think the global golf schedule could benefit from golf
Speaker 1: outside the US. You know, does it need to be
Speaker 1: forty five weeks a year in the US, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I just had that core PGA to schedule tournaments.
Speaker 1: I really hope that it stays the thing, you know, um,
Speaker 1: whether it looks like it does as I said, if
Speaker 1: it covers the whole year, or there's some room for
Speaker 1: other stuff in there. There probably should be other stuff
Speaker 1: in there, really when you think about it, but I
Speaker 1: just hope there's just not too much blood on the
Speaker 1: floor and too many players don't get canceled and we
Speaker 1: have played this doesn't become the norm that we're sing
Speaker 1: journalists for deformation of character and um this, I just
Speaker 1: hope golf doesn't go that direction. It's just too nice
Speaker 1: a support for it to get so nasty, you know, like,
Speaker 1: why can't we just go play golf. The whole pot
Speaker 1: of golf is just getting together with your friends and
Speaker 1: having a good time. Like at this point, the end
Speaker 1: of the competitive thing, it's somehow golf had retained that
Speaker 1: purity that most other sports hadn't, and that's sort of
Speaker 1: we've been dragged into the sort of the fray a
Speaker 1: little bit by this whole thing. So I just hope
Speaker 1: there's not. As I said, there's just not too much damage.
Speaker 1: The PGR two states the number one game in town.
Speaker 1: I'd loved. I think it's cool that other stuff could
Speaker 1: potentially happen around outside that and players can make a
Speaker 1: lot of money. I'm a professional golfer. I love the
Speaker 1: idea that someone wants to put a billion or two
Speaker 1: or three billion into golf. I mean, that's just amazing.
Speaker 1: The ability to take a catchphrase from the live side
Speaker 1: of things, to grow the game or at least two
Speaker 1: put events on where they haven't had events, have more
Speaker 1: players is arguably, forty eight players making golf is now
Speaker 1: going to make more money. There's gonna be forty eight
Speaker 1: more spots on the pg I two And that's good, right,
Speaker 1: you know why? Um yeah, I'll just type of this
Speaker 1: it all. We we get out the other end of
Speaker 1: this with a sensible golf landscape without too much damaged
Speaker 1: down along the way. See, I think, Jeff you made
Speaker 1: a very generous comment that, of course Greg Norman would
Speaker 1: never never agree with that. These core American tournaments that
Speaker 1: we've known for years that we three have known for years.
Speaker 1: And of course, Jeff, you've lived in this country, uh
Speaker 1: maybe almost half your life, probably not quite that um,
Speaker 1: but l A and Fort Worth and you know, Chicago
Speaker 1: and Honolulu and lots of other events, twenty or more
Speaker 1: Hill in the head plus the majors, three of the
Speaker 1: majors anyway, Well, Greg Norman has been saying since the
Speaker 1: mid nineties, aided and embedded by by seven when they
Speaker 1: were you know, the two most charismatic players in the game.
Speaker 1: Is the PGA Tour should not be the star of
Speaker 1: all tours and there really should be a world tour.
Speaker 1: And that's really where this thing has been headed in
Speaker 1: Greg Norman's mind from the beginning. And I think that
Speaker 1: is really what's in jeopardy here. Is the pH A
Speaker 1: Tour still going to be the king of the Hill
Speaker 1: of professional golf? Or will something supplanted? So if if
Speaker 1: those if that's the if, those are the two sites
Speaker 1: of this fight, this fight will have a very ugly
Speaker 1: end or there will be some kind of major, major reconciliation.
Speaker 1: And and and I don't know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the saudis uh backed by Greg Norman's uh ferocious campaign
Speaker 1: would actually accept because it takes two sides to have
Speaker 1: some kind of peace treaty. That's true. But I mean
Speaker 1: what the Saudis want more than anything is legitimacy. They
Speaker 1: want to be well, they want to see at the table.
Speaker 1: They want to be part of the Western world. And
Speaker 1: what would be a greater embrace than by all the
Speaker 1: governing bodies of the sport and the royal and ancient
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, all these tweety fellows. Um, I
Speaker 1: think that, would you know? That would be the ultimate
Speaker 1: validation that they have arrived in a certain ways. So
Speaker 1: I think that I think they would be happy to
Speaker 1: make it work with with the PGA Tour and the
Speaker 1: other governing bodies if such an offer is presented. But um,
Speaker 1: how that would work from business standpoint and how the
Speaker 1: how the pie would get divvied up. But they would
Speaker 1: certainly get a cut of this gigantic TV contract that
Speaker 1: the tour enjoys, and that's something that saluted to live
Speaker 1: golf so far. So I think a compromise would be attractive. Now,
Speaker 1: whether Gregg himself would want to do that, you know,
Speaker 1: he seems to enjoy the joustings, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: But I didn't. I didn't want to ask you that, Jeff,
Speaker 1: because um it's funny. I did a radio interview this
Speaker 1: afternoon and then Peter Jacobson heard it and he called
Speaker 1: me up. And if you think about the most amiable
Speaker 1: kind of guys in golf, I mean, Jake has no edge,
Speaker 1: but he was fired up, but he wanted to really
Speaker 1: talk about this stuff. And one thing you said about Norman,
Speaker 1: which I thought was really interesting, was I don't understand
Speaker 1: where his anger comes from. You know, it seems like
Speaker 1: Greg's always been so angry, and um, you know some
Speaker 1: of that has played out now in in this public space.
Speaker 1: I mean, what is what is your take on Greg
Speaker 1: Norman as a person, what drives him and why he's
Speaker 1: still fighting this fight into his late sixties. Firstly, I
Speaker 1: mean I've been good friends with Greg for a long
Speaker 1: time and he was a fantastic captain for US. But
Speaker 1: he was our hero growing up in Australia. I mean
Speaker 1: he was he was Tiger before Targo Kanada. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was number one in the world for ten years
Speaker 1: pod part, but he had the biggest crowds. I mean,
Speaker 1: history isn't looking very favorably on his record, but he's
Speaker 1: he was an unbelievable player for long time. Mean, he
Speaker 1: was out here. It was like a movie start persona.
Speaker 1: And so when I got to play with him and
Speaker 1: he was out, Captain the President's come for a couple
Speaker 1: of presents, carps and stayed at his house and it
Speaker 1: was kind of close there for a few years. It
Speaker 1: was incredibly generous, amazingly capable sort of guy this and
Speaker 1: he was great. He's always been great to me. The obviously,
Speaker 1: at some point when he was number one in the world,
Speaker 1: something bugged him, or something got under his skin, or
Speaker 1: somebody talked to him, and it just became his mission
Speaker 1: right world tour sort of situation, U anti pot of adra,
Speaker 1: I've got a better idea, and this is right. I
Speaker 1: think there's just a stubborn element that I'm right, you're
Speaker 1: wrong kind of thing to this. You know, he's clearly
Speaker 1: probably got a lot of good ideas. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a number one in the world
Speaker 1: for a long time. He's got access to a lot
Speaker 1: of really highly high powerful people who have probably said
Speaker 1: to him at amazing dinners sometimes with presidents and CEOs
Speaker 1: and stuff, that you should do this would be great
Speaker 1: and will sponsor and blah blah blah. And he gets
Speaker 1: an idea and he said and he runs with it. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any ad intent. I think he's
Speaker 1: just carried away and he's excited that he thinks he's
Speaker 1: got a really cool thing. Yeah, I mean, look like
Speaker 1: there probably is. I think. To save all the blood
Speaker 1: on the floor, if you if you buy into the
Speaker 1: argument that the lives so out he sided, they're not
Speaker 1: going to go away. The only answer is a compromise.
Speaker 1: If they're not going to go away, it doesn't nobody wins.
Speaker 1: If we just fight this fight for ten years, like
Speaker 1: the sooner they can get down and sit at the
Speaker 1: table and say, right, what does everybody want? You guys
Speaker 1: have lots of money, We have tradition and legitimacy. How
Speaker 1: can we connect those two and make it great? You know,
Speaker 1: like I don't see any other fast That's the fastest
Speaker 1: way to a good solution, you know, is that they
Speaker 1: sit down and right, we've got the I mean, the
Speaker 1: pH I two has tradition, it has the tournaments, it's
Speaker 1: got the structure that the whole infrastructure and the legitimacy
Speaker 1: and the relationship with the sponsors and the TV and
Speaker 1: like all you say. I mean, it's just so much
Speaker 1: going for the p G a tour but arguably the
Speaker 1: biggest sponsor in the world. You know, the people who
Speaker 1: dig oil out of the ground are the biggest sponsor
Speaker 1: in the world if you look at Saudi as an
Speaker 1: oil company if you like. Um, finding a way to
Speaker 1: have the PGA to benefit golf is a sport benefit
Speaker 1: from the biggest sponsor in the world wanting to get involved,
Speaker 1: I think is the fastest way to know blood bath.
Speaker 1: I mean, it would be it would be ship if
Speaker 1: we were going for five years with this fraction sport.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think anybody wants I understand why
Speaker 1: nobody wants to get them involved, but they are involved now,
Speaker 1: and if they're not actually going to go anywhere. The
Speaker 1: fastest way it would be better if the PGA to
Speaker 1: a controlled golf, I mean, because they've proven that they
Speaker 1: do a pretty good job at it. You know, to
Speaker 1: have some rogue sort of situation if you force them
Speaker 1: into having if you if you bring them to the table,
Speaker 1: maybe you can get them to have legitimate tournaments in
Speaker 1: the fall or away from the really important stuff and
Speaker 1: and legitimately call it a silly season. That might be
Speaker 1: enough for them to get involved. I mean it takes
Speaker 1: years and minutes that Dallas has been a tournament for
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know eighty years or something. Barron Nelson said
Speaker 1: on the eighteenth grade for fifty years. Like you can't
Speaker 1: build that with a check with money, you know, Like
Speaker 1: you can't recreate the Memorial in a year. You can't
Speaker 1: recreate Hilton Head or the l A Open or It's
Speaker 1: Only Open or Canadian Open. You just you can't just
Speaker 1: create tradition. You've got to earn it. And I think, um,
Speaker 1: if if if you feel like they're not going to
Speaker 1: go away and they're going to stay here, I don't
Speaker 1: understand why we wouldn't give them a chunk of the
Speaker 1: year and let them earn their legitimacy. You know, build
Speaker 1: some tradition, earn some legitimacy, make our members a pile
Speaker 1: of money over here, But stroke place season that the
Speaker 1: serious goalf happens from January to August or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: This isn't real golf over there. You can pay pay
Speaker 1: my players, do whatever you want to do over here.
Speaker 1: That's your speed. But we do golf properly, and you
Speaker 1: have to prove to us that you can do it properly,
Speaker 1: to me that it's something in that sort of area.
Speaker 1: Is the only way is to to avoid the most
Speaker 1: blood on the floor and to stop all this petty,
Speaker 1: petty sort of arguing and players hating players inside the
Speaker 1: locker room and crazy tweets and lawsuits and it's just messy,
Speaker 1: and it's just it needs to just the faster we
Speaker 1: get to the end of it, the better. I think
Speaker 1: it might be great for journalists, as you said, it's
Speaker 1: it's a year of content. You've got no shortage of
Speaker 1: stuff to write about, to talk about. But it's too
Speaker 1: good a sport play around with it like this to
Speaker 1: just have just to have ah ego contests on one
Speaker 1: side and the other. I think it's there. It's a
Speaker 1: shame because it's just going to be messy until it
Speaker 1: gets sorted alan from from what do you from you
Speaker 1: have seen and from what you have heard in your reporting,
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour is based on having fans on the
Speaker 1: golf course and having people watch it on TV. That's
Speaker 1: the whole economic model and the charity model for the thing.
Speaker 1: Fans on the golf course, people watching on TV, and
Speaker 1: you need name players for those two things that happen
Speaker 1: generally speaking, sometimes that happens without really big name players.
Speaker 1: From what you've seen, what you've heard on Do the
Speaker 1: Saudis really care about those two things? Is that important
Speaker 1: to them? Well, they're they're definitely trying hard to lock
Speaker 1: in the streaming and television component. I mean that's important
Speaker 1: to their model. And you know a Ramco just the
Speaker 1: Saudi Oil Company just had a profit of forty eight
Speaker 1: billion dollars for the second quarter. That's an all time record.
Speaker 1: So clearly they have the resources to play the long
Speaker 1: game here and they don't need a TV contract, but
Speaker 1: it gives it again, it confers legitimacy, It brings value
Speaker 1: to the players and to the whole thing. And just
Speaker 1: from taking aside of the economic component, if you're not
Speaker 1: on TV, you don't matter like in sports right like that,
Speaker 1: you're small time. So they need a TV deal to
Speaker 1: make all this work on different levels, and they will
Speaker 1: get one. Now exactly what it looks like, who knows,
Speaker 1: but it's gonna happen um and maybe maybe it's only streaming,
Speaker 1: which is kind of the same as TV now but
Speaker 1: like you look at Apple, TV is desperate for content.
Speaker 1: They're a big player. Um, there's a lot of there's
Speaker 1: a lot of analogous platforms they can go to that
Speaker 1: um don't have live sports. And we all know live
Speaker 1: sports is incredibly valuable because it's the one thing that
Speaker 1: people are not going to watch on their DVR and
Speaker 1: you can actually place commercials into and people have to watch,
Speaker 1: they can't they can't skip them. So live sports still
Speaker 1: has a unique value in this very fractured media landscape. So, UM,
Speaker 1: there the fan energy and you know, I'm only one
Speaker 1: in two reports has been all through these live events
Speaker 1: so far, and they do have energy. It's an interesting
Speaker 1: mix of personalities in the in the gallery, I mean
Speaker 1: there's a sense of of the forbidden and and also
Speaker 1: sticking it to the man, like you can't tell me
Speaker 1: not to come here and enjoy myself. I'm gonna drink
Speaker 1: three beers. I don't have a damn good time. You know,
Speaker 1: there's like there's kind of this freewheeling energy. Certainly we
Speaker 1: know the old the biggest disruptor and modern American life
Speaker 1: is Donald Trump, and and that there was kind of
Speaker 1: that feeling in the air at bed Minister, like we
Speaker 1: do things our way and we're not beholding to the system,
Speaker 1: and the fans are kind of oozing that it's really interesting. Um.
Speaker 1: And then there's there's hardcore fans. Like one thing like
Speaker 1: LIVE has done very cleverly is go to these cities
Speaker 1: that are starved for golf. So Portland has not had
Speaker 1: a tour event and forever, and people if they want
Speaker 1: to see high level golf, they're gonna come out and
Speaker 1: watch it. You know. There's some of some of the
Speaker 1: hardos who follow me on Twitter were out there and
Speaker 1: they were just they just wanted to watch guys hit
Speaker 1: golf shots, you know, ten feet away. And you know
Speaker 1: Chicago doesn't have as tour stop anymore. Um, they're going
Speaker 1: there soon. Boston had the US Open this year, but
Speaker 1: Boston's kind of been taken off the road to of
Speaker 1: the playoffs to a large degree. So, you know, Live
Speaker 1: they've identified some markets where there's just a pent up
Speaker 1: enthusiasm to watch great golf in person. And I think
Speaker 1: fans can compartmentalize and uh, and or they don't care,
Speaker 1: or they're actually enjoying like being out there because it's
Speaker 1: forbidden and they're not supposed to be there, Like there's
Speaker 1: just there's a lot of things that play, but I
Speaker 1: think there will be fans. Um. It is a cool
Speaker 1: atmosphere in that you know, we've all you and I
Speaker 1: Michael have had stuffer through this many times, like uh,
Speaker 1: Tiger's team off at seven twenty and fills not teen
Speaker 1: off till and you gotta put into fourteen hour day
Speaker 1: if you want to watch both of them play golf
Speaker 1: and write about it. I mean, in this society, we're
Speaker 1: in the instant gratification. The whole thing happens in four
Speaker 1: and a half hours. Like everyone's on the golf course.
Speaker 1: You get in, you get out. It's not a huge commitment.
Speaker 1: You're guaranteed to see the players you want to see
Speaker 1: because they're on the golf course when when you're there
Speaker 1: and it's just not that way. And at PG Turvent,
Speaker 1: especially on Thursday and Friday where there's all these the
Speaker 1: morning of the afternoon wave, I mean, you can miss
Speaker 1: players you want to see because you just can't invest
Speaker 1: the time. Like Live is solve that, and I think
Speaker 1: it's a good product for for today's you know, very
Speaker 1: limited tention spans. So all the jokes about the shotgun
Speaker 1: are funny, but I think it's actually a pretty good
Speaker 1: product and it's certainly um it makes for a tidy,
Speaker 1: you know, viewer experience and if you're in person, So
Speaker 1: I think I think it's gonna grow. I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, if if you're a golf fan and Camp
Speaker 1: Smith's come to town, you want to go watch him,
Speaker 1: you know, hit chips and pitches, right, And I don't
Speaker 1: think you really care what uniform he is wearing on
Speaker 1: some level, like it's just it's a pleasure to watch
Speaker 1: these guys play golf and um, you know we can
Speaker 1: we don't have to go down the rabbit hole of
Speaker 1: how the Saudis are all part of our lives in
Speaker 1: different ways, from from Uber to the local gas pumps,
Speaker 1: Like you have to compartmentalize if you're a human being
Speaker 1: and you're walking this earth, like there's um and I
Speaker 1: think sports fans are good at that. So um yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think I think the fan experience and
Speaker 1: I will say, like the concession prices are really low,
Speaker 1: the food is really good. Um, you know they've done
Speaker 1: the parking is free and it's easy, like they've done
Speaker 1: a lot of little things on the margins to make
Speaker 1: the experience really good for fans on the ground and
Speaker 1: so um, you know, the music on the driving range
Speaker 1: is kind of fun. They have good playlists. I've been
Speaker 1: I've been monitoring the playlist quite closely. So there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of little things that they've done right. And
Speaker 1: there's i mean, there's I've never seen so many porta
Speaker 1: potties at a sporting event, right. It doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: a big deal, but it is like you can ruin
Speaker 1: your whole day if you can't find a bathroom when
Speaker 1: you really need it or it's super gross. And we've
Speaker 1: all had that experience at at at sporting events. So
Speaker 1: they do care about the fan experience and they are
Speaker 1: trying hard in that regard. So I think that that
Speaker 1: that component will will continue to go. Are they shopping
Speaker 1: for Are they shopping for a gambling deal now or
Speaker 1: a draftking pype deal now? I'm sure they are. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna've heard a lot of different things about that. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just such a gold mine. I mean, to Jeff's point,
Speaker 1: the only thing that could probably produce same kind of
Speaker 1: revenue is oil is gambling, right, and so um, they're
Speaker 1: they're not a fuddy duddy old institution like the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour who for so long kept gambling at arm's length.
Speaker 1: Of course, now that's changed because it has to, because
Speaker 1: that's just that's where society has gone. But yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1: I mean it fits the sort of the Maverick brand
Speaker 1: that Live is created. Why wouldn't they have go all
Speaker 1: in with on on the gambling component as well. And
Speaker 1: do you think with with the PG two being so
Speaker 1: wedded to being a not for profit and Live being
Speaker 1: so publicly we are for profit company or we intend
Speaker 1: to make money eventually, um, do you think that makes
Speaker 1: for a cultural mis mismatch that that that would be
Speaker 1: it an obstacle to creating a PACE treaty? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know that was that was obviously. Jay Bonhand is
Speaker 1: known from the beginning that he's outgunned when it comes
Speaker 1: to money, and he said as much. And so his
Speaker 1: first line defend was the moral argument, you know, you'll
Speaker 1: never have to apologize for being a PGA Tour member.
Speaker 1: And he really tried to hammer that home, but it
Speaker 1: fell a little flat when so many of the guys
Speaker 1: just dismissed that right, like, um uh so there there
Speaker 1: is this culture clash for sure. You know, the um
Speaker 1: and and the tour is is very wedded to the
Speaker 1: way it's always been done, and they are traditionalists, and
Speaker 1: they really you know, charity becomes this rallying cry, we're
Speaker 1: doing it for charity or destroying the communities that we support,
Speaker 1: and um again lives like, okay, fine, we'll give hundre
Speaker 1: million dollars a charity. They just said. They just coopted
Speaker 1: that whole argument, like, oh, it's about charity. Here's a
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars. You know, they established this foundation and
Speaker 1: they're starting to spread it. So again, I think the
Speaker 1: tour has kind of overplayed its hand. Like Live Golfs
Speaker 1: is gonna give us much of charity as a PGA
Speaker 1: tour this year? Probably so true. Um yeah, they would
Speaker 1: put a hundred million dollars up into this foundation. So um.
Speaker 1: Now again it's transactional. They're trying to buy goodwill and
Speaker 1: political cover. But if you're if you're one of these
Speaker 1: communities and you're a direct beneficiary of of that money,
Speaker 1: you don't care why it's there. You're just happy to
Speaker 1: get it because you need it. And so um, you know,
Speaker 1: I think these you can you can really talk about
Speaker 1: the culture clash between you know this the disruptors and
Speaker 1: the traditionalists. Um, but I think all these all these
Speaker 1: bridges can, all these divides can be bridged, but it
Speaker 1: might be hard for j Monahan to do it. You know,
Speaker 1: he's he's gone all in and villainizing Greg Norman and
Speaker 1: the live guys like that. He staked his whole commissionership
Speaker 1: on that, that they're bad people and they're hurting the game.
Speaker 1: So then it gets hard to have this reapproachment. Now,
Speaker 1: if you're bringing a new commissioner and he can say,
Speaker 1: well that was then now we're gonna we're gonna look
Speaker 1: at a compromise and he's unencumbered by all those things
Speaker 1: that the previous guy said, then I think you have
Speaker 1: some traction there. So let's just route. Let's just finish
Speaker 1: this podcast off kind of where we started with Tiger Woods,
Speaker 1: who now is the de facto commissioner. And what I'm
Speaker 1: hearing is that this this meeting was not so much
Speaker 1: about trying to hold the line and make sure other
Speaker 1: guys don't go or or whether they stay like that's
Speaker 1: kind of people have already made their choices to a
Speaker 1: large degree. This is more about where do we go
Speaker 1: from here and what change can be made and what
Speaker 1: compromises could we have, what what can we how can
Speaker 1: we salvage this situation? I mean that that's been the
Speaker 1: tone of this gathering. I mean, and Jeff, you spoke
Speaker 1: eloquently about it. But um, you know, I think I
Speaker 1: think it's important to the point that you made is
Speaker 1: that they're here, whether you like it or not, the
Speaker 1: Saudis are now big players in in this in this
Speaker 1: Gulf landscape. And I think Tiger seems to realize that.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if Jay Monahan does, but I think
Speaker 1: the fact that if Tigers coming in with more of
Speaker 1: a problem solving mindset, that's a big development. So it's
Speaker 1: gonna take a few days, a few days to debrief
Speaker 1: everyone on what was really said or wasn't said. But
Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm hearing, is that, Um, there's there's
Speaker 1: a little shift here. It's no longer about digging in
Speaker 1: and us against them. It's more like, okay, that that
Speaker 1: battle has been, that battles ended, and now how can
Speaker 1: we how can we avoid this really costly war? So, um,
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely it's just a unique moment this is
Speaker 1: going to continue evolved. We'll keep talking about it, but
Speaker 1: before we go together, any final thoughts on where we
Speaker 1: are at this moment. Yeah, I mean, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's got to if you view it as a from
Speaker 1: the point of from point of ads point of view,
Speaker 1: the tour is part of view as an opportunity to
Speaker 1: sort of highlight how good your tournaments are, your tradition.
Speaker 1: Let's make January to August or whatever we want to
Speaker 1: call it, this is a legitimate, traditional proper golf. This
Speaker 1: is stroke place season. If you're like, this is where
Speaker 1: the world rankings have worked out. This is when all
Speaker 1: the majors are played. If you want to know who
Speaker 1: the best golf from the world is, it's who plays
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour between January and August. And then
Speaker 1: let's have silly season. Like I don't know why everyone
Speaker 1: is so adamantly against it, but why wouldn't you have
Speaker 1: like little match play leagues and like exhibition stuff, And
Speaker 1: like you said, the format's nuts, I mean, fifty four
Speaker 1: holes if it's if it's not in legitimate like that season.
Speaker 1: I know that might not be exactly what the live
Speaker 1: side of things wants, but you've got to start somewhere.
Speaker 1: You know you can get if you do have that
Speaker 1: great PGA to a traditional sort of season, you can
Speaker 1: get as creative as you want outside of that, and
Speaker 1: you can actually maybe sort of it's almost experimental, and
Speaker 1: what do people really want to see, Like at the
Speaker 1: end of the season, who wouldn't want to see Cam
Speaker 1: Smith team up with Marc Leishman and sort of some
Speaker 1: sort of team four ball best ball match play tournament
Speaker 1: or all sorts of different stuff. I think the PGA
Speaker 1: to a strength is its tradition and it's sort of structure.
Speaker 1: I think it's an opportunity to actually highlight that and
Speaker 1: make it more important in golf. You know, That's the
Speaker 1: direction I would be going if anybody asked me, I
Speaker 1: would try to find a way to that sort of position,
Speaker 1: you know, make that the serious part of golf. You
Speaker 1: have to give up some of the schedule you just have.
Speaker 1: I just don't see a way that they can. It's
Speaker 1: just going to be constant battling against the life side
Speaker 1: of things until you give up a date or two. Um.
Speaker 1: That would be the way I would see it. Like
Speaker 1: you said, it seems to be moving more that direction. Obviously,
Speaker 1: this meeting is more like how do we co exist
Speaker 1: with these people as opposed to how do we make
Speaker 1: them go away? And I would love to see everybody win,
Speaker 1: Like I think that I think that's possible. I think
Speaker 1: the tour can win, as I said, because they can
Speaker 1: be the most legitimate game in town. Um. And I
Speaker 1: think the players can win because there be a whole
Speaker 1: lot of money to jump up for grabs. If they
Speaker 1: have a great strike place season or a great career,
Speaker 1: maybe they can jump into these really cool, crazy forty
Speaker 1: eight man fields for piles and piles of money and
Speaker 1: live have an opportunity in the Saudis, have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to be part of the golf landscape. I think everybody
Speaker 1: can win if everybody wants to, you know. And I'd
Speaker 1: love to say that happened, because it's it's madness, what's
Speaker 1: going on at the moment, Michael, I can't just improve
Speaker 1: on that. It's a man who knows when to end
Speaker 1: a podcasts um, well, this is it's been a it's
Speaker 1: just a fascinating time to be alive. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is I feel like we'll be doing this uh regularly.
Speaker 1: But Jeff, thank you for your your insight, Michael, you
Speaker 1: as well. Uh, this is Alan ship Nuck. We're ending
Speaker 1: this Fire Drill podcast. There will certainly be more to
Speaker 1: come thanks to listeners as always. Um, you need to
Speaker 1: acknowledge our sponsors, who were always grateful for that is
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Speaker 1: Thank you. A bad big an played to win, made
Speaker 1: a fortune, win my shot game inn I round the table,
Speaker 1: never thought I could fall down. The winter time hit
Speaker 1: me like a cannon the ball and now I can't
Speaker 1: shake this losing the stream. Every road I take is
Speaker 1: a dead end stream. I got thoughts in my head,
Speaker 1: can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about. I got thought in my head, can't get
Speaker 1: him out, and trying not to think what I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about