WEBVTT - Episode 187: David Samson (Former MLB Executive)

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to episode number one eighty seven of the Marine

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<v Speaker 1>Layer Podcast. We welcome on David Sampson, former baseball executive

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<v Speaker 1>and host of Nothing Personal. We'll talk with him about

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<v Speaker 1>the dynamics of owning a baseball team, whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>teams make money, and how this all relates to the Mariners.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's your guys' reminder before we start this podcast, please

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<v Speaker 2>YouTube shorts, Blue Sky at Marine Layer Pod.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get it rolling and we welcome you to this

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<v Speaker 1>episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just

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<v Speaker 1>Baseball podcast network. Recording on Monday evening, December second, while

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<v Speaker 1>who is holding up the hot stove of this offseason?

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing is happening.

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing well, actually no, not nothing. Blake Snell signed, so

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<v Speaker 2>that was something.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, okay, so Seattle area people are allowed to sign

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<v Speaker 1>with the super team of deferred money, which, by the way,

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<v Speaker 1>Blake Snell gets a lot of deferred money in that contract. Surprise, surprise, hmm.

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<v Speaker 2>I just think it's hilarious. By the way, quick side

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<v Speaker 2>note that everybody knows he wants to be a Mariner,

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<v Speaker 2>but he has to pick a different option because the

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<v Speaker 2>Mariners will not offer him the money. Like everybody know,

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<v Speaker 2>if it was up to him, he'd be in Seattle.

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<v Speaker 1>The Mariners could defer his money into twenty eighty two.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think he'd care great.

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<v Speaker 2>By that point, there'll be a new ownership group. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not the problem of this current one.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like the Dodgers, like the does the Dodgers current

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<v Speaker 1>ownership group actually plan on paying this money out of

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<v Speaker 1>their own pocket?

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great question. Nobody's gonna want to buy the

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<v Speaker 2>Dodgers ten years from now. So this ownership group, for

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<v Speaker 2>their sake, I hope they stay because they're not gonna

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<v Speaker 2>sell this team.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, they're not gonna they wouldn't make money off So there,

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<v Speaker 1>I would say, revenue wise, I'm gonna take a guess

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll talk about this a little bit with David

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<v Speaker 1>Sampson coming up. But operationally, the Dodgers do make money

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<v Speaker 1>and due to a number of factors or television deal,

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<v Speaker 1>their relationships with brands in Japan now, et cetera, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're right, teams don't owners or perspective, owners don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to buy teams that have outstanding debt. It's like

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<v Speaker 1>buying a business that it's losing money. It's the same

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<v Speaker 1>idea of that. So that'll be interesting. But that's the

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<v Speaker 1>Dodgers problem, not the Mariners. We just missed. The Mariners

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<v Speaker 1>would make a move right now. I mean we've passed

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<v Speaker 1>Thanksgiving this past week and Jerry to Poto didn't make

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<v Speaker 1>any moves. He must have actually been focused on cooking

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<v Speaker 1>this time.

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<v Speaker 2>It's December, Ameriics haven't made any moved by December. This

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<v Speaker 2>never happens. They're always active. They're always right on the

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<v Speaker 2>ball with this stuff. Yeah, who's holding it up? You

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<v Speaker 2>could say one Soto, but I don't think it is

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<v Speaker 2>because how many teams are really in on one Soto.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even really think the Dodgers are in on him.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's really the serious players, Red Sox, Yankees, Matts.

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<v Speaker 2>If you want to throw the Blue Jays in, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess the blue Jays.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it because those are the team only teams that

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<v Speaker 1>really want to spend money this offseason because most of

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<v Speaker 1>the league is still in some some version of TV flux.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe he could be It could be it. I think

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<v Speaker 1>of it in the Roki Sasaki since too some teams

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<v Speaker 1>might just want to keep a roster spot open given

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<v Speaker 1>that he won't sign until mid January, and teams, if

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<v Speaker 1>teams think they could sign him, their priorities of signing

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<v Speaker 1>elsewhere on their roster change with that. That could be

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<v Speaker 1>a case.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's true. The other part of this is I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know the quantity of moves the Mariners are going

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<v Speaker 2>to make those offseason. The quantity maybe down. Maybe they

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<v Speaker 2>only make a couple. Hopefully the couple they make are

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<v Speaker 2>of significance and impact. AKA, if they were to trade

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<v Speaker 2>for Alec Bohm, that could take a while to come together.

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<v Speaker 2>If that's who they're really focused on. If that's what

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<v Speaker 2>they're working toward. Rather than a lot of other off seasons.

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<v Speaker 2>They make a bunch of moves and they kind of

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<v Speaker 2>flow in time after time. Maybe this year it's only

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<v Speaker 2>gonna be a couple.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't it weird to think about it? This time last offseason,

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<v Speaker 1>the Mariners had already traded Auhennihoswaras away, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>this past weekend, a year ago. Lau, if I have

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<v Speaker 1>my timing right, they traded away Kelnick? Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? What great vibes that was speaking of Gino.

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<v Speaker 1>So from a content perspective, selfishly, i'd rather have that again.

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<v Speaker 1>From a ViBe's perspective, you're right sucked.

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<v Speaker 2>And from the perspective of wanting the team to be good,

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<v Speaker 2>it sucked. Hey, you know who could use a third

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<v Speaker 2>basement right now? The Mariners? You know who went thirty

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<v Speaker 2>and one hundredast year and was one of the seven

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<v Speaker 2>most valuablet third basement of baseball last year? Oh? That

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<v Speaker 2>was that was Gino. Despite a really tough first half.

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<v Speaker 1>It's funny today that they're on Monday. There's a Rosenthal

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<v Speaker 1>article that gets published that's reporting that the Mariners were,

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<v Speaker 1>in his words, looking to upgrade at third believing that

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<v Speaker 1>after the Mariners had previously asserted at the GM meetings

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<v Speaker 1>earlier that they were looking to upgrade second. If they

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<v Speaker 1>were going to pick a position, they were going to

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<v Speaker 1>pick second to upgrade. But Rosenthal's here saying they're looking

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<v Speaker 1>at third base. What do we choose to believe here?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I can choose to believe anything

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<v Speaker 2>until they actually physically transact and make moves. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what to believe. I think we know they're going

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<v Speaker 2>to try and upgrade on the infield. Do I like

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<v Speaker 2>how they're operating this offseason? No, that's no secret. Everybody

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<v Speaker 2>who listened to this podcast knows that. Anybody who knows

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<v Speaker 2>me knows that. You know that you feel the same way.

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<v Speaker 2>Operating with a sixteen million dollars payrolls a joke. That

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<v Speaker 2>being said, if the Mariners are going to make impact

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<v Speaker 2>moves this winner now focusing just on the Rosenthal report,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't it make more sense to actually gear that focus

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<v Speaker 2>towards second base? And I know I just said that

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<v Speaker 2>the Mariner's training for Alec Bohm would be great. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it would be the problem is, once you get

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<v Speaker 2>past Alec Bohm, who are you acquiring to play third base?

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<v Speaker 2>There's way more options over at second whether it's Niko Horner,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's hass On Kim, whether it's others. At third base,

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<v Speaker 2>it's Booneman then.

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<v Speaker 1>What That's what the Mariners say in their farm system too.

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<v Speaker 2>Though.

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<v Speaker 1>If you list out the options the Mariners could play

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<v Speaker 1>at second it's Dylan Moore, Ryan Bliss, and you could

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<v Speaker 1>put Leo Revos at second base, and you can put

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<v Speaker 1>Cole Young at second base. Right They have the options there.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's why they The Rosenthal report likely has that

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<v Speaker 2>they are more interested in third base. And Rosenthal mentions

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<v Speaker 2>that in his report that the Mariners feel better internally

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<v Speaker 2>about out what they have at second than what they

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<v Speaker 2>have at third. And look by the letter of the

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<v Speaker 2>law and by definition, I understand what Rosenthal is saying.

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<v Speaker 2>If a ground ball was to roll the second base

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<v Speaker 2>or to roll the third base, where do you have

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<v Speaker 2>more depth? Right now? Second base are either good options

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<v Speaker 2>for everyday players? No, but they do have more options

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<v Speaker 2>at second base by definition, yes, Dylan Moore can play

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<v Speaker 2>plenty at second base. I also think Dylan Moore is

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<v Speaker 2>much better suited in a utility role than he is

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<v Speaker 2>in an everyday role. But yeah, if they have to

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<v Speaker 2>find options at second base, they can do it. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what they're going to do at third base.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was for end of the Pod. Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Churchill was tweeting about this earlier and noting that as

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<v Speaker 1>the offseason rolls along and team's canvas for what's actually

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<v Speaker 1>available needs do change. It could very well be that

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<v Speaker 1>when Justin Hollander mentioned at the GM's meetings that the

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<v Speaker 1>Mariners were focusing on second base, they spent the last

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<v Speaker 1>few weeks calling around about second baseman, checking on the

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<v Speaker 1>availability of free agents second basement, and realized, huh, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think that's realistic. It's more realistic to go after

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<v Speaker 1>third base. That's a real thing right there. So when

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<v Speaker 1>you look at it that way and you look at

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<v Speaker 1>what the Mariners have internally, it clicks that if that

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<v Speaker 1>is true the first part I mentioned what I think

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<v Speaker 1>Jason mentioned on Twitter. If that part is true, then

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<v Speaker 1>this part makes a whole lot more sense. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think Mariners fans really care which position the Mariners go upgrade,

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<v Speaker 1>because they're not gonna be able to truly upgrade at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Three positions given the budget they have. But you just

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<v Speaker 1>want one, right, You just want one serious acquisition at

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<v Speaker 1>these positions. That's all you want. It can't be in

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<v Speaker 1>three weeks from now. It's like, oh, we're gonna pivot

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<v Speaker 1>onto the first base market now because we don't like

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<v Speaker 1>what we see at third. It's like, that's not giving

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<v Speaker 1>us very much confidence because now you've gone in a

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<v Speaker 1>circle around the entire infield, which, if we're being realistic

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<v Speaker 1>lyle where there is the most options is at first base.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet it has not been mentioned.

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<v Speaker 2>No, they need to upgrade at two positions. Are they

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<v Speaker 2>gonna do that? That's a different question. They need to

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<v Speaker 2>upgrade at two positions. I think what Mariners fan should

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<v Speaker 2>be settling on not one.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh and bullpen by the way, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>But you mentioned, but you mentioned I think Mariners fans

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<v Speaker 2>just want to see one upgraded. No, I think they

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<v Speaker 2>want to see at least two upgraded. It's just the

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<v Speaker 2>team has yanked down the expectations so low that people

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<v Speaker 2>have settled with one.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm seriously upgraded at multiple positions since what.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know, right, So that's why I just

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<v Speaker 2>want one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So because people don't even have the confidence they're

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<v Speaker 1>going to do one right.

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<v Speaker 2>Because what you're saying is they haven't done it in years,

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<v Speaker 2>years and years.

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<v Speaker 1>So I mean after the twenty two offseason it was

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<v Speaker 1>ta Oskar Hernandez was the upgrade. That was a serious

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<v Speaker 1>outfield upgrade?

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>Where was the other one? They didn't do another serious

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<v Speaker 1>one It Colton long as we could tell DFAED midseason,

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<v Speaker 1>was not a serious upgrade. I think the idea was

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<v Speaker 1>a serious upgrade, but the execution of it was not right.

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<v Speaker 2>For Hey, Polanco last year was supposed to be a

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<v Speaker 2>big one, didn't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't happen. Mitch Garver was supposed to be a big one,

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<v Speaker 1>didn't happen, got to mote it. They have not been

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<v Speaker 1>able to do two serious acquisitions. So that's why when

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<v Speaker 1>you when you look at this one would be a

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<v Speaker 1>great start because people people were paranoid. Read our comments

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<v Speaker 1>to all of you that listen and don't spend time

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<v Speaker 1>commenting on our things and might just think a while,

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<v Speaker 1>and I reiterating some of these points to try and

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<v Speaker 1>hammer home, especially about the relievers. By the way, they

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<v Speaker 1>do need a reliever really bad in that bullpend high

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<v Speaker 1>leverage would be great. Some of I know some of

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<v Speaker 1>you listening don't read our comments all the time, but

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<v Speaker 1>there is a paranoia out there from a large swath

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<v Speaker 1>of people that they're not going to do anything. That's

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<v Speaker 1>why I think one is just so important because one,

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<v Speaker 1>even if it's not perfect, well even if it's not perfect,

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<v Speaker 1>one serious upgrade in the offseason and a bounce back

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<v Speaker 1>across this roster leads to a potential play opposition.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you think those calls went between Jerry and

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<v Speaker 2>Justin when they were trying to figure out how to

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<v Speaker 2>upgrade at second base? Do you think they called has

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<v Speaker 2>Song Kim's camp? It was like, Hello, they were interested

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<v Speaker 2>in Hassan Kim a ten million a year. Now we're out, Bye,

0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:17.120
<v Speaker 2>hang up the phone.

0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, now they should go to Heisung Kim.

0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:21.400
<v Speaker 2>No, absolutely not.

0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm play shouldn't, but that's in their budget.

0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.440
<v Speaker 2>While we're on this topic, I'm spending thirty seconds on this.

0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.760
<v Speaker 2>I think Haisan Kim is Josh Rojas, who, by the way,

0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.320
<v Speaker 2>they just let go. I think he's a good defender

0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.120
<v Speaker 2>and isn't gonna hit in the big leagues. I will

0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.400
<v Speaker 2>be shocked if his WRC plus in his first year

0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.520
<v Speaker 2>is over ninety five. In other words, that is Josh Rojas.

0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.160
<v Speaker 2>And if you spend real money on that, I'm not.

0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.560
<v Speaker 1>Gonna be happy, and it's gonna cost more.

0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. Again, I think Hay Song Kim is Josh Rojas.

0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Can you not wait for Winter meetings? Jerry's gonna trade

0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.000
<v Speaker 1>for someone while we're at Winter Meetings?

0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Are we gonna make a scene while we're there in

0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.959
<v Speaker 2>the ballroom or wherever the main common area is.

0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, just depends what it is, am I we me? Yeah,

0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean I can be tame emotionally in public.

0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:19.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, TJ TJ one T doesn't quite get worked up

0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:20.720
<v Speaker 2>as worked up as I do. He'll get worked up

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.600
<v Speaker 2>and not to my level. And yeah, he's probably better

0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.520
<v Speaker 2>about keeping it together in public. If if the Mariners

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:27.720
<v Speaker 2>do something stupid while we're at the Winter meetings, I

0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.680
<v Speaker 2>cannot guarantee I won't just be unhinged.

0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.000
<v Speaker 1>What's gonna be the best thing, though, is like Jerry's

0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 1>finishing at walking down the hall, like across the hotel,

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.000
<v Speaker 1>but we're all gonna be on the ground level, so

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.520
<v Speaker 1>he's gonna make the trade. Rosenthal or Paston's gonna tweet

0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:45.120
<v Speaker 1>it out You're gonna go far and Jerry's gonna be like.

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh, what was that?

0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Was that because of me? Oh?

0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Is that those? Is that those Mariners? Podcasters? Oh boy?

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 1>But then we're gonna walk over to him too. Mic

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.439
<v Speaker 1>into jerry first reaction.

0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. Would you like would you like our rec

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.040
<v Speaker 2>action into the trade?

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Not really guys. What it's like, can you give me

0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 1>twenty can you give me fifteen seconds?

0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's like it's like, why don't you want our reaction?

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Well I heard you across the hall from all these people.

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.360
<v Speaker 1>I'll be calm. It's like, I don't think so right.

0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of which, another reminder of you guys are going

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.040
<v Speaker 2>to be at the Winter Meetings next week. For any

0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.040
<v Speaker 2>of you that might be listening, please let us know.

0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 2>We'd love to meet up. We'd love to come say hey,

0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 2>we'd love to talk ball et cetera. So a couple

0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.040
<v Speaker 2>of you already, a couple of you have already reached out.

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.280
<v Speaker 2>If there's more of you that are going to be there, seriously,

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:37.199
<v Speaker 2>please let us know.

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:43.840
<v Speaker 1>So we'll talk about some of these It's I'm so yeah,

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:45.959
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking forward to it. So please please reach out

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:47.880
<v Speaker 1>to us, send us a DM at us. If you're

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be there in Dallas winter meetings, that would

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 1>be that would be awesome. Yeah, I'm looking forward to

0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 1>this conversation with David Samson Lyle really fun former executive

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:02.320
<v Speaker 1>for sixteen years with the Marlins h under Jeffrey Lauria,

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 1>also a former executive of the Montreal Expose. He does

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>a great job of explaining the dynamics between front offices

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 1>and ownerships, which I know is a hot topic this offseason.

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to get into it, and let us

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:18.840
<v Speaker 2>preface it a little bit more here in just a minute.

0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Before that, let's take a pause. We're gonna talk to

0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.080
<v Speaker 2>you guys about our friends over at Pigatcha's PUBB eighty five.

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.560
<v Speaker 2>That's over in Kirkland. You guys know, with sports going

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.040
<v Speaker 2>in full swing, NFL season is getting really exciting. College

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:33.760
<v Speaker 2>football playoffs right around the corner conference championship games or

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.640
<v Speaker 2>this week Arizona State's in the Big twelve title game. Whoo.

0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 2>So if you want to go watch a bunch of

0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 2>games basketball, hockey two head over there. You can have

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.400
<v Speaker 2>some great food, playpool, play darts, and if you go

0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 2>during happy hour, you're gonna find the best drink specials around.

0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Those are three and four dollars drinks during Happy Hour

0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.440
<v Speaker 2>from two to six pm on Monday through Fridays. So

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:54.880
<v Speaker 2>do you need more of a sales pitch, awesome drinks,

0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.720
<v Speaker 2>fun time with your friends, go watch a bunch of sports.

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.760
<v Speaker 2>All that is over at Pagatcha's Pub eighty five in Kirkland.

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Yet we wanted to have David on because, yet again,

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.080
<v Speaker 2>for the second off season in a row, the biggest

0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.880
<v Speaker 2>headline in Mariners world seems to yet again be ownership

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 2>and their commitment or lack thereof, to fielding a successful

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 2>on field product that is capable of truly being a contender,

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.720
<v Speaker 2>and a powerhouse that seems to be the overarching headline

0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 2>yet again. We talked about it a bunch last offseason.

0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 2>The two of us discussed it plenty. We had a

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 2>couple people on some reporters on last year to help

0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 2>try to contextualize it to some extent. But we really

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 2>wanted to get David on this offseason because he is

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 2>somebody who's been in front offices, been in ownership groups.

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.920
<v Speaker 2>He's been in these meetings. You get a sense of

0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.480
<v Speaker 2>how he thinks and how owners think with this. I

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.680
<v Speaker 2>can guarantee you this. I don't think you guys are

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:54.720
<v Speaker 2>gonna agree with all of it in terms of what

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 2>he says, but it's fascinating and we didn't agree with

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>all of what he says. We were fascinating to listen

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.640
<v Speaker 2>and we'll react to some of this after the interview.

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 2>But hearing what he said, there were things that were

0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 2>clicking in my head that didn't click before.

0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Look, guys, this is gonna be a different perspective. I

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>just want you guys to gear up for that as

0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>you listen to this interview, a different perspective from people

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.400
<v Speaker 1>we have had on in the past to talk about that.

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.920
<v Speaker 1>And that's why I'm not gonna hold you guys up

0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.840
<v Speaker 1>any longer. Let's get you to that interview with David Samson.

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.120
<v Speaker 1>All right, We've got David Samson on with us. Former

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.760
<v Speaker 1>executive for the Miami Marlins and the Montreal expos He's

0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>also the host of Nothing Personal with David Samson, part

0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>of Metal Arc Media. David, thanks so much for taking

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 1>some time to join us. I wanted to start off

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 1>sort of tying in your old career and your now

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.880
<v Speaker 1>current career because for some of our listeners who might

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.320
<v Speaker 1>be unfamiliar with your work. You served in a pretty

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 1>high up level of the Marlins and the Expos organization,

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 1>and now you're just like kind of like Klaloney and

0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.560
<v Speaker 1>you do a show every single day. So how unique

0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.879
<v Speaker 1>is it for someone that held a position like you

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.399
<v Speaker 1>held to be doing such a front facing up show

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:11.360
<v Speaker 1>like you currently do.

0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Well.

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.280
<v Speaker 3>I was president of the Marlins for sixteen seasons, and

0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.560
<v Speaker 3>in twenty seventeen when I got fired by a text

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.919
<v Speaker 3>alert from ESPN that Derek Jeter was firing me, I

0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.880
<v Speaker 3>was the second longest tenured president in all of baseball,

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 3>and I would say twenty four hours after I was

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 3>let go, which I knew I was going to be

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 3>because I had orchestrated the sale of the team to

0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.080
<v Speaker 3>Derek Jeters, so I knew I wasn't he wasn't going

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 3>to keep me, and when his first box arrived in

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.879
<v Speaker 3>my office, I knew that something was a miss. But

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 3>I immediately knew that I wanted to get into media

0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.280
<v Speaker 3>because I had been front facing and sort of the

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.240
<v Speaker 3>public face of both the Expos for two seasons and

0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.879
<v Speaker 3>then the Marlins for sixteen, and I was ready for

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.200
<v Speaker 3>the next career, and I immediately started with CBS Sports

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.320
<v Speaker 3>right after early two thousand eighteen, and then I was

0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 3>approached to start a show, and I thought of an

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.199
<v Speaker 3>idea called Nothing Personal and Nothing Personal with David Sampson

0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.000
<v Speaker 3>is a daily show, and it really gives people insight

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 3>into demystifying what goes on in front offices around sports,

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.440
<v Speaker 3>and I tell stories and sort of analyze what's happening

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.000
<v Speaker 3>when people are talking to the media, because I did

0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.000
<v Speaker 3>that for eighteen years, and I always had an agenda,

0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.800
<v Speaker 3>and there was a lot of bait and switch and

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:33.000
<v Speaker 3>misleading that I was doing purposefully both to get better players,

0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.919
<v Speaker 3>to get better players cheaper, to get our fans to

0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.639
<v Speaker 3>buy tickets as much as they could or would, to

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.440
<v Speaker 3>give hope, however false it may be. And so this

0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 3>is a show that's dedicated to just a lot of

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 3>truth telling. And I'm a pretty forward person and when

0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.439
<v Speaker 3>I got the invite to come on your show, I

0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 3>was happy to do it. As you know, it's hard

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:52.639
<v Speaker 3>to do a daily show, it's hard to do a

0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 3>show of any kind. And I've been doing Nothing Personal

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 3>for five years and it continues to grow and it's

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.760
<v Speaker 3>a fantastic stick be fun, but daily grind.

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.720
<v Speaker 1>The name of it nothing personal, I think ties back

0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.159
<v Speaker 1>to sort of the main subject of I think what

0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about today with the dynamics between ownership and

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.919
<v Speaker 1>front office and fans. But the title itself nothing personal.

0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine the idea behind that is how a

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of teams operate are saying, look, it is nothing

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>personal to all of you. This is business. Is that correct?

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:29.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.360
<v Speaker 3>I end every show with the line, it's just business,

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.199
<v Speaker 3>this is nothing personal, And I use that line a

0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.760
<v Speaker 3>lot during my career. You're crushing a lot of dreams

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.639
<v Speaker 3>as a team president, whether it is fans when you

0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.399
<v Speaker 3>don't win and there's twenty nine losers every year, or

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 3>whether it's players who you're releasing or sending back to

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:52.040
<v Speaker 3>the minor leagues. There's always some negativity that you're associated with.

0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.120
<v Speaker 3>But on the other hand, I loved what I did

0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 3>because we were in the memory making business and we

0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:58.920
<v Speaker 3>did a lot of cool things like winning a World

0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:02.840
<v Speaker 3>Series and getting in ballpark and hosting an All Star Games.

0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.480
<v Speaker 3>So there's all sorts of great dichotomies when you're the

0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.639
<v Speaker 3>president of a team, and if you're going to be

0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.440
<v Speaker 3>someone who's front facing. You've got to be there when

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.520
<v Speaker 3>things are bad and when things are good. And that

0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.359
<v Speaker 3>was my specialty through my eighteen seasons, and that's what

0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.640
<v Speaker 3>I continue to do on the show and that's.

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 4>What we should talk about here today if you want

0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:20.639
<v Speaker 4>to that.

0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 3>There's so much that goes into making a team, and

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.920
<v Speaker 3>it is hard to be a fan of a sports

0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:31.480
<v Speaker 3>team because you are signing yourself up for disappointment because

0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.959
<v Speaker 3>there's only one winner at the end of every season.

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.119
<v Speaker 3>And so when your customers, by definition, are going to

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.679
<v Speaker 3>be disappointed with your product, but you want them to

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.560
<v Speaker 3>keep engaging with it and keep spending their money and

0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.959
<v Speaker 3>their time. It's a very interesting relationship that you have

0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.800
<v Speaker 3>with the media and with the fan base and with

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 3>people really around the country or the world. And I

0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:54.720
<v Speaker 3>like digging into that and talking about that.

0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:57.359
<v Speaker 2>So I want to dig back into something you just

0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.280
<v Speaker 2>said after I ask you this about your show, about

0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:04.240
<v Speaker 2>the information you've brought to people since joining the media.

0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:08.040
<v Speaker 2>What is something that you've shared that you feel like

0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.359
<v Speaker 2>fans really didn't know about how sports teams franchises are

0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 2>run until you shared the information, and people are like, oh,

0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:16.480
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know that.

0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.120
<v Speaker 3>I think a lot of what I do is when

0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.320
<v Speaker 3>there are press conferences and press releases, I translate them

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.560
<v Speaker 3>and explain to people why teams are saying what they're

0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.399
<v Speaker 3>saying when they're firings of coaches or general managers, or

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.920
<v Speaker 3>the process of signing a player. I was responsible for

0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:34.280
<v Speaker 3>signing gian Carlos Stanton at the time, it was the

0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.720
<v Speaker 3>biggest contract in North American sports. And talking through how

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 3>that process is, how you deal with things throughout the

0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 3>course of a year. I had a death, you know,

0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.399
<v Speaker 3>Jose Fernandez tragically died, and talking through that. They're just

0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.440
<v Speaker 3>really every sort of experience, from losing one hundred games

0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.679
<v Speaker 3>to winning a World Series, from trading away all your

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 3>players to signing a bunch of the best free agents

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.760
<v Speaker 3>and explaining how all those processes work. I think it's

0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 3>important for fans and listeners, and it's been born out

0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.159
<v Speaker 3>by the size of the show. People want to hear this,

0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.440
<v Speaker 3>they want to hear the stories. And I've always told

0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.320
<v Speaker 3>people I'm not curing cancer, I'm not splitting the atom.

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm merely telling people how things really worked and trying

0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.800
<v Speaker 3>to take some of the mystique away from what people

0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 3>perceive is these very secretive things and brilliance of sports people,

0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.320
<v Speaker 3>when in fact we're really just like everybody else.

0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 2>So you mentioned signing up to be a sports fan

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:30.359
<v Speaker 2>is extremely hard. The two of us could sit here

0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and tell you absolutely, we go through it every day

0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.919
<v Speaker 2>with a team that's never made the World Series. But

0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I've wanted to have this question answered for so long.

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 2>I'd probably sit around and think about it way too often,

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:42.960
<v Speaker 2>and you feel like somebody that would be a great

0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.760
<v Speaker 2>person to ask it to. So here we go, why

0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.480
<v Speaker 2>do owners and these billionaires that own teams decide to

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:51.000
<v Speaker 2>get into it? And it's a little more of a

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:52.760
<v Speaker 2>deep question than that, because I'm sure you're going to

0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 2>respond and say, well, money, it's super profitable. You can

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.959
<v Speaker 2>make a lot owning a team. But these billionaires, well,

0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.920
<v Speaker 2>one their rich to begin and number two, there are

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of ways post careers for whatever these guys

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.040
<v Speaker 2>have done for most of their lives, to continue to

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 2>make money as they go on through life. But I

0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.000
<v Speaker 2>guess I've always looked at owning a team as something

0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:15.480
<v Speaker 2>that was supposed to be a way to give back

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 2>to the community, give back to your fans, to try

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.920
<v Speaker 2>to really invest in something for your city. But as

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:22.600
<v Speaker 2>we all know, there's a lot of owners in the

0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:24.040
<v Speaker 2>game that don't really operate like that.

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:27.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't want to burst your bubble, but let

0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:30.880
<v Speaker 3>me start at the beginning of your question and tell

0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:32.879
<v Speaker 3>you that many of the owners who got into the

0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 3>game in the nineties and early two thousands, they got

0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:39.639
<v Speaker 3>in at pretty low prices, and when you call them billionaires,

0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.119
<v Speaker 3>their assets may be worth billions, but they are not

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.360
<v Speaker 3>actual liquid at all. They've got a lot of their

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 3>money tied up in teams, and the teams many of

0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 3>them do not make money operationally, and they're forced to

0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:55.600
<v Speaker 3>borrow money or pledge their other assets, or use their

0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:57.760
<v Speaker 3>savings in order to operate teams.

0:23:58.040 --> 0:23:59.800
<v Speaker 4>And of course you can get it all back when

0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 4>you sell.

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:03.720
<v Speaker 3>But the reason why very many owners don't sell and

0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 3>they hold for a long time, and the main reason

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.920
<v Speaker 3>they get in was perfectly stated by Steve Balmer when

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.960
<v Speaker 3>he bought the Clippers, and he had a great story

0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:16.920
<v Speaker 3>that he told and it is exactly spot on. He

0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:19.719
<v Speaker 3>was one of the founders of Microsoft. He was an

0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:23.879
<v Speaker 3>actual liquid billionaire, and he said, I can't get into

0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:27.960
<v Speaker 3>any restaurants in LA I bought the Clippers, and I

0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:29.879
<v Speaker 3>can do whatever I want. Whenever I want to, I

0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:31.680
<v Speaker 3>make a call and say it's Steve Balmer. I want

0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 3>to have dinner at eight twenty two, and they will

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:36.359
<v Speaker 3>open the red carpet and he'll have a table wherever

0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:40.040
<v Speaker 3>he wants. And there is such ego involved because there's

0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.439
<v Speaker 3>so few opportunities to own teams, and when you're an

0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:46.119
<v Speaker 3>owner of a team, you're just treated in a way

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:49.199
<v Speaker 3>that you were not treated even if you started or

0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:51.680
<v Speaker 3>worked in a huge company. There was an owner of

0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:55.719
<v Speaker 3>the Astros. His name was Drayton McClain, very successful businessman,

0:24:56.200 --> 0:25:00.399
<v Speaker 3>and he and I would talk often about how funny

0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:02.800
<v Speaker 3>it was to own a team and how you would

0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:07.800
<v Speaker 3>try to take the lessons that you basically did to

0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:10.360
<v Speaker 3>build up your company or to build up your other

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:14.000
<v Speaker 3>business and apply them in baseball, and it doesn't work,

0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:17.480
<v Speaker 3>and owners get super frustrated by that. Ted Lerner of

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:21.320
<v Speaker 3>the Nationals rest in Peace, one of my mentors, another

0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:25.400
<v Speaker 3>great example, a hugely successful real estate man. He tried

0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:29.120
<v Speaker 3>to run the Nationals like his organization and it totally failed.

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:33.560
<v Speaker 3>And so owners are very interesting creatures. And the one

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:36.360
<v Speaker 3>adjective I would use to describe almost all of them

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 3>they're incredibly thin skinned. They're not used to being in public.

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:43.040
<v Speaker 3>They don't like being criticized. They want all of the

0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:46.360
<v Speaker 3>accolades they loved when their hands are shaked and they're

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:49.360
<v Speaker 3>asked for autographs and pictures. They don't like reading bad

0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:52.800
<v Speaker 3>stuff about them. They don't like any negativity, and they

0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.400
<v Speaker 3>always believe that they're right because they're powerful. So it's

0:25:56.440 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 3>a very interesting dynamic that happens in ownership and even

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:03.399
<v Speaker 3>down to a team president, where you're used to getting

0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:05.600
<v Speaker 3>what you want when you want it, and then you

0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.479
<v Speaker 3>realize that the vagaries of the game on the field

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.399
<v Speaker 3>are totally beyond your control. And just last thing, the

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 3>reason why you see managers get fired and gms get

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 3>fired is because owners are thinking that there's a fix

0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:21.320
<v Speaker 3>to everything, that there's a logical reason why you lose

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:24.680
<v Speaker 3>a game, and therefore if you just fix it, then

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:27.359
<v Speaker 3>you won't lose a game. And it takes a long

0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:30.639
<v Speaker 3>time as an executive to understand that there are just

0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:32.800
<v Speaker 3>certain things that are what they are.

0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 1>So then what are the traits of an owner that

0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:38.240
<v Speaker 1>is largely successful.

0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:42.120
<v Speaker 3>I would say the biggest trade is to let people

0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 3>do their job. But I would say that's the trade

0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:46.960
<v Speaker 3>of a successful CEO of any company. And the thing

0:26:47.000 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 3>about owners is that you think that your owner medals.

0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:53.040
<v Speaker 3>And I don't know if you think your owner does medal,

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:56.640
<v Speaker 3>but I'll tell you thirty owners medal. And it may

0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:00.720
<v Speaker 3>be degrees of medaling. But don't kids yourself every time

0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 3>an owner tells you that, hey, you know my GM,

0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:05.440
<v Speaker 3>just I let him do what he wants. I give

0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:07.280
<v Speaker 3>him the payroll and the rest is up to him.

0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:10.880
<v Speaker 3>It's total horse hockey. The owner knows everything that's going on,

0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:14.119
<v Speaker 3>doesn't read anything in the paper about his team. And

0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:15.879
<v Speaker 3>we'll call up his GM and say, I want to

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.439
<v Speaker 3>sign this guy, trade that guy, do this, call the

0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:20.760
<v Speaker 3>manager and say, why didn't you hit and run? And

0:27:20.800 --> 0:27:23.760
<v Speaker 3>these owners think they're baseball people and the majority of

0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:24.600
<v Speaker 3>them simply are not.

0:27:26.200 --> 0:27:29.520
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned something in your second to let your two

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.959
<v Speaker 1>answers ago, where you mentioned that not all these teams

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:36.840
<v Speaker 1>operationally make money. I'd like to dive into that a

0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:40.119
<v Speaker 1>little bit more. Where are the shortcomings for some of

0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:43.159
<v Speaker 1>these franchises that they see their bottom line going to

0:27:43.200 --> 0:27:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the red? Where are they missing out where other franchises aren't.

0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:48.880
<v Speaker 3>So the rule that I was taught my first day

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:51.440
<v Speaker 3>by Bud Selig is that if your player payroll is

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:54.880
<v Speaker 3>fifty percent or greater of your revenue, you are going

0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:59.560
<v Speaker 3>to lose money. And he's who is right twenty five

0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:01.159
<v Speaker 3>years ago, he's right today.

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 4>And that is the general rule of thumb.

0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:05.800
<v Speaker 3>No coincidence that if you look at a salary cap

0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:08.679
<v Speaker 3>league like the NBA, there's a general rule of a

0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:12.320
<v Speaker 3>fifty to fifty split for revenue for payroll because that's

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:14.760
<v Speaker 3>about as high as you can go. But there are

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.520
<v Speaker 3>owners who go higher. I can tell you the New

0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 3>York Mets are a great example. They get crushed, operationally crushed.

0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:25.480
<v Speaker 3>And you think that because he's a billionaire, he'll keep

0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:28.280
<v Speaker 3>doing it forever. He won't number one, but number two.

0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:31.440
<v Speaker 3>His payroll is so high that he doesn't have the

0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:34.479
<v Speaker 3>revenue to cover it, but he's willing to do it

0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:37.000
<v Speaker 3>because he's a new owner and very much wants to win.

0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:40.120
<v Speaker 3>But what you've been noticing is that there's not a

0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:44.120
<v Speaker 3>direct correlation between size of your payroll and winning. Despite

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:45.960
<v Speaker 3>the fact that the Yankees and Dodgers were in the

0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 3>World Series recently and they were two of the top

0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:51.920
<v Speaker 3>three payrolls. It really hasn't been like that, And so

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:55.880
<v Speaker 3>I would just tell you that every owners meeting we

0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:59.080
<v Speaker 3>would see on the screen, they would just show us

0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:04.560
<v Speaker 3>the team, the teams ebadas, the industry ebadas, which means

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:07.680
<v Speaker 3>whether a team is making money or losing money, and

0:29:07.800 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 3>the cash flow of teams, and the overwhelming majority of

0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:14.480
<v Speaker 3>teams did not make money. And Bud Selig would say

0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:17.920
<v Speaker 3>to us, what are you guys doing? And we were

0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:19.800
<v Speaker 3>It was all men at the time, and maybe Pam

0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:22.000
<v Speaker 3>Gardner of the Astros was the one woman in the room.

0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:25.400
<v Speaker 3>You put yourself through hell for one hundred and sixty

0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:28.320
<v Speaker 3>two days a year. You're gonna lose at least sixty

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:30.840
<v Speaker 3>games every year if you're the best team, and then

0:29:30.880 --> 0:29:32.880
<v Speaker 3>you're gonna lose money at the end of the year.

0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:35.680
<v Speaker 3>What's wrong with you people? And he would do it

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 3>with a little more swearing and a die coke in

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:41.760
<v Speaker 3>his hand. But his point was always listened to by

0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:43.040
<v Speaker 3>owners but never followed.

0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:46.680
<v Speaker 1>Does that mostly the does it mostly come back to

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:50.640
<v Speaker 1>TV money? Like we've seen the last year plus with

0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:53.520
<v Speaker 1>some of these rsns, where that gap is where the

0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:56.800
<v Speaker 1>teams that make money separate themselves.

0:29:56.720 --> 0:30:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, not necessarily because they're teams with great broadcast revenue

0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 3>that don't necessarily make money.

0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 4>The Yankees are a great example.

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 3>They used to take out a lot of money from

0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 3>the Yes Network, and so their team would lose money,

0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:10.640
<v Speaker 3>but the owners would be fine because Yes Network was

0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:13.360
<v Speaker 3>throwing off so much cash. But then they sold off

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.560
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of Yes Network. They took a payment and

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:19.600
<v Speaker 3>spent that and they've been running huge payrolls to no avail,

0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 3>as Yankee fans know, and so eventually you just realize

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:26.680
<v Speaker 3>that you've got to run a break even business if

0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:28.840
<v Speaker 3>you've run out of the ability to borrow money and

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:30.840
<v Speaker 3>you don't want to put your own money in. The

0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:34.480
<v Speaker 3>disruption of the rsns is a huge deal because your

0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 3>TV revenue is a huge percentage of your overall revenue

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:40.960
<v Speaker 3>for all of the teams, and when it is in

0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:43.719
<v Speaker 3>jeopardy the way it is now, and when the value

0:30:43.760 --> 0:30:47.440
<v Speaker 3>of the owned networks goes down like for Yes Andnessen

0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:54.000
<v Speaker 3>and Massin and SNY, it really does eventually impact your

0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:56.880
<v Speaker 3>team and your team payroll.

0:30:57.000 --> 0:30:59.600
<v Speaker 2>So you mentioned Steve Cohen, I have two questions about

0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:04.280
<v Speaker 2>and things surrounding him. Number One, you sound like you

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:07.840
<v Speaker 2>don't think he can operate like this forever, which maybe

0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:11.160
<v Speaker 2>sounds obvious because he spends like crazy, But is it

0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 2>as short term as you're kind of eluding it to be.

0:31:14.160 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Is it only going to be for another couple of

0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 2>years you think that he can do this before it

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:18.640
<v Speaker 2>catches up to him.

0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:19.960
<v Speaker 4>It depends when he wins.

0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:21.480
<v Speaker 3>But I'll tell you, when you buy a team, you

0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:25.280
<v Speaker 3>get five years of amazing tax benefits because of amortization

0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:28.120
<v Speaker 3>and depreciation of the assets that you've purchased.

0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:28.400
<v Speaker 1>It.

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.040
<v Speaker 3>It's a technical thing, but the bottom line is that

0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 3>you can stand to have losses because you can use

0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:38.520
<v Speaker 3>those losses. But when that five years runs out, your

0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:43.200
<v Speaker 3>financials look completely different. Steve con very easily with what

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:45.479
<v Speaker 3>he spent on the Mets, could have had in his

0:31:45.600 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 3>mind that he was buying them really for two seven

0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:50.800
<v Speaker 3>and that he was going to lose six hundred million

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:54.640
<v Speaker 3>dollars and just bounce that off as as purchase price.

0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 4>Frankly, so there will be a limit.

0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 3>You just don't know when it is, but I would

0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:02.440
<v Speaker 3>say that it's not this year, but I would say

0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:03.480
<v Speaker 3>I can see it from here.

0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:06.960
<v Speaker 1>How much do owners look at the balance between some

0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 1>of the money they lose and then how much their

0:32:09.680 --> 0:32:11.040
<v Speaker 1>team appreciates every year.

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:14.280
<v Speaker 3>It's a great question. So I'll tell you what I

0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:16.640
<v Speaker 3>did with our owner, because we lost money every year

0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 3>of my eighteen years, which isn't a great reflection to

0:32:19.160 --> 0:32:21.720
<v Speaker 3>me except for maybe three of them. And what I

0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:24.520
<v Speaker 3>would say to the owner is, why don't you reallocate

0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:27.640
<v Speaker 3>your assets, sell one of your pieces of art, borrow money,

0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:31.320
<v Speaker 3>use your cash, because if we lose twenty million by

0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:34.800
<v Speaker 3>having a payroll where we have it, I promise you your

0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:36.400
<v Speaker 3>team is going to go up in value by more

0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:37.280
<v Speaker 3>than twenty million.

0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:38.480
<v Speaker 4>So if you can.

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:43.120
<v Speaker 3>Handle the short term cash loss, then it's worth it

0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:46.480
<v Speaker 3>because you'll get it back on appreciation. And for our owner,

0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:50.000
<v Speaker 3>that made sense because his entry price was low enough

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 3>that he was making money on a sale whenever that

0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:55.800
<v Speaker 3>would come, even if it would come with his estate

0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:58.200
<v Speaker 3>after death, which it didn't turn out. He sold the

0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:03.120
<v Speaker 3>team in seventeen after Jose Fernandez died. But for many

0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:06.200
<v Speaker 3>of these teams their entry price. Now take a look

0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:09.840
<v Speaker 3>at at the recent deals where the price is higher,

0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:12.959
<v Speaker 3>like Bruce Sherman of the Marlins paid one point two billion.

0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:16.880
<v Speaker 3>He's been losing money since twenty seventeen, and he's not

0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:19.680
<v Speaker 3>seen a return on that money at all, because the

0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 3>team isn't worth more than one point two. As a

0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:25.040
<v Speaker 3>matter of fact, he'd sell it today at one point two,

0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:26.120
<v Speaker 3>but no one would give him that.

0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:28.640
<v Speaker 4>So it depends what your entry price is.

0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Are these teams just compiling up outstanding debt with like

0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:36.080
<v Speaker 1>banks or so they were, like you said, borrowing against

0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:38.280
<v Speaker 1>other assets they own, like for the Mariners, who would

0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:40.480
<v Speaker 1>if if this was the case for them, it would

0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:41.920
<v Speaker 1>be root sports, I would imagine.

0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:44.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's several places where you get debt. The first

0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 3>is there's industry debt, which is a line of credit

0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:50.720
<v Speaker 3>or a borrowing that Major League Baseball does and uses

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:54.640
<v Speaker 3>its national TV deals as collateral and allows each team

0:33:54.680 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 3>to borrow an amount of money based on that as collateral.

0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:00.920
<v Speaker 3>Then you've got owners who borrow money with the team

0:34:01.000 --> 0:34:04.160
<v Speaker 3>as collateral. Then you've got owners who borrow money with

0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:07.040
<v Speaker 3>their other assets as collateral, and then.

0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:08.239
<v Speaker 4>You have a cap.

0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.239
<v Speaker 3>There's something called the Debt Service Rule in Major League

0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:13.680
<v Speaker 3>Baseball which limits the amount of debt that you can

0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:17.080
<v Speaker 3>have on your team, and if you're in violation of it,

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:20.600
<v Speaker 3>you've got to put money into your team. And baseball

0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:26.080
<v Speaker 3>has many teams in violation, and it forces owners to adjust.

0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:28.680
<v Speaker 3>So let me give you the best example. The Padres

0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:33.200
<v Speaker 3>total violation of the debt service rule, a totally irresponsible payroll.

0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:34.720
<v Speaker 4>And guess what their.

0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:38.759
<v Speaker 3>Payroll went down significantly from two years ago to last year.

0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:41.600
<v Speaker 3>And I would bet you it goes down again because

0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:44.040
<v Speaker 3>while they sell out and they have a waiting list

0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:46.160
<v Speaker 3>for season tickets, they're not making money.

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:49.360
<v Speaker 4>They're bleeding money, and so you have to adjust your payroll.

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:54.160
<v Speaker 3>By the way, one more thing, sorry, look at the Achillies.

0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:58.960
<v Speaker 3>John Middleton just sold maybe ten percent of the team.

0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:01.719
<v Speaker 3>You can sell, oh your shares in the team to

0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:04.239
<v Speaker 3>bring in money, and it's not being used to get

0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:07.560
<v Speaker 3>Juan Soto. It's being used to pay down debt in

0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:10.560
<v Speaker 3>order to get your balance sheet in order. So that's

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 3>another way that owners can raise money for their team.

0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:15.800
<v Speaker 3>If you own eighty percent, you can sell ten percent.

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:19.160
<v Speaker 3>But you'd be shocked at the number of owners and

0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:21.399
<v Speaker 3>the faces and names that you know, and how much

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:22.839
<v Speaker 3>of the team they actually own.

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:27.200
<v Speaker 2>This is all really interesting, speaking of ownership stake. The

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:29.360
<v Speaker 2>other Steve Cohen question I wanted to circle back to

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:33.759
<v Speaker 2>is when it comes to decision making by an ownership group.

0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:40.200
<v Speaker 2>How much easier is it when you are in a large,

0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:42.680
<v Speaker 2>large majority owner like Steve cohen is, where he owns

0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:45.480
<v Speaker 2>roughly ninety five percent of the New York Mets compared

0:35:45.480 --> 0:35:49.320
<v Speaker 2>to the Mariners, where there's roughly fourteen to eighteen people

0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:52.680
<v Speaker 2>on this ownership group. And I would imagine I'm not

0:35:52.719 --> 0:35:54.160
<v Speaker 2>a fly on the wall in there, but i would

0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:56.840
<v Speaker 2>imagine it's hard to make decisions and to get eighteen

0:35:56.880 --> 0:35:58.839
<v Speaker 2>people to come together on an agreement. So how much

0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>harder is it when it's one person versus a group?

0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's nothing so limited as being a limited partner

0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:07.760
<v Speaker 3>in a baseball team. You're not getting any say over signings, trades, anything.

0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:09.880
<v Speaker 3>You may get a few board meetings a year, you

0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:11.959
<v Speaker 3>may get a little nosh, and you may get a

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:14.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, a Mariner's cap. But there is a control

0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:17.600
<v Speaker 3>person and that control person is in charge of the

0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:20.600
<v Speaker 3>team and every decision the team makes. And the control

0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:24.480
<v Speaker 3>person gets his power from his partnership agreement with his

0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:27.960
<v Speaker 3>other partners with the other owners. So you do you

0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:31.160
<v Speaker 3>never and every partnership agreement may be different. So there

0:36:31.200 --> 0:36:33.880
<v Speaker 3>could be a partnership agreement where there's a clause that

0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:36.960
<v Speaker 3>says you can't sign a free agent for over five

0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:41.040
<v Speaker 3>hundred million dollars without permission of a majority.

0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Of the partners.

0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:45.200
<v Speaker 3>So there can be examples, but the overwhelming majority of

0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:49.239
<v Speaker 3>decisions are made simply by the control person and the team.

0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:52.040
<v Speaker 1>Why is a team like the Dodgers able to be

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:55.560
<v Speaker 1>such an anomaly when it comes to spending habits and

0:36:56.400 --> 0:37:00.040
<v Speaker 1>it just it feels more sustainable with what they're doing well.

0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:02.839
<v Speaker 3>Out The number one thing is when Mark Walter bought

0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:06.279
<v Speaker 3>the team, something happened. Remember they bought the team from

0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:08.480
<v Speaker 3>Frank McCort, who had to sell the team because of

0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:12.880
<v Speaker 3>a divorce. And it was a very interesting sale process.

0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:15.200
<v Speaker 3>It was an auction, but it was fixed and it

0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:18.279
<v Speaker 3>was going to Goggenheim Partners Mark Walter and what they

0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:21.080
<v Speaker 3>did to get the sale price up. And if you

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:23.640
<v Speaker 3>recall way back when they bought it, it was a

0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:26.480
<v Speaker 3>record at the time, but it was really an inflated

0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:30.520
<v Speaker 3>number because what Baseball did is they had a pre

0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:34.440
<v Speaker 3>arranged deal for a new TV deal with Comcast that

0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:37.440
<v Speaker 3>gives them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in

0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:41.399
<v Speaker 3>broadcast revenue that other teams simply don't have, and when

0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 3>you have that amount of revenue and your local TV deal,

0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.160
<v Speaker 3>it enables you to be separate from the pack. And

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:50.719
<v Speaker 3>that's what the Dodgers are. They're well run, don't get

0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:53.839
<v Speaker 3>me wrong, but they have a huge revenue advantage that

0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:56.360
<v Speaker 3>was given to them. They had a huge revenue sharing

0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.040
<v Speaker 3>advantage that was given to them in a last minute

0:37:59.040 --> 0:38:01.239
<v Speaker 3>deal as well, in terms of what would count for

0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:03.960
<v Speaker 3>revenue sharing and what wouldn't, and all of it was

0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:07.359
<v Speaker 3>so the Dodgers sell price would be higher, so that

0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 3>bud stealer could say, hey, look, we're a healthy league.

0:38:10.640 --> 0:38:12.400
<v Speaker 3>Our teams are selling for a lot of money.

0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Since you've had direct experience with something like this, I

0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:18.920
<v Speaker 1>want to run it by you because a lot of

0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:22.319
<v Speaker 1>Mariners fans think Marror's ownership should sell and think that

0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:25.799
<v Speaker 1>would solve the problems when it comes to how the

0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:28.600
<v Speaker 1>Mariners spend, how they operate all these things. So, as

0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Lyell mentioned, the ownership group is large. How complicated of

0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:36.320
<v Speaker 1>a process would that be for the Mirrors to truly

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 1>be sold?

0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:38.000
<v Speaker 4>Not at all.

0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:40.760
<v Speaker 3>There's tag along rights, which means that the general partner

0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:43.640
<v Speaker 3>has the right to sell the partnership and the other

0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:46.000
<v Speaker 3>partners would come with him. But I guess I would

0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:47.879
<v Speaker 3>ask you to go back to when I first got

0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.719
<v Speaker 3>in the game. Can you think of and I'll ask

0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:51.480
<v Speaker 3>you this question.

0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:53.080
<v Speaker 4>Who the richest.

0:38:52.640 --> 0:38:56.080
<v Speaker 3>Owner was when I joined the game on December ninth

0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:57.160
<v Speaker 3>of nineteen ninety nine.

0:38:57.800 --> 0:39:00.000
<v Speaker 4>Who was the richest owner at that time?

0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Was it George Steinbrunner?

0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:06.200
<v Speaker 3>Nope, it was Carl Pohlad. He was the owner of

0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:10.160
<v Speaker 3>the Minnesota Twins. The Minnesota Twins were up for contraction.

0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:14.719
<v Speaker 3>They couldn't get a ballpark done. Wayne heizinga hugely rich

0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:17.360
<v Speaker 3>man when he owned the Marlins, couldn't get a ballpark

0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:20.000
<v Speaker 3>deal done, cut his payroll, did a fire sale. There

0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:23.760
<v Speaker 3>really is no direct correlation other than Steve Kohene right now,

0:39:24.120 --> 0:39:27.359
<v Speaker 3>to wealth and how your team is operated. So that

0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:30.560
<v Speaker 3>is one of those things that people believe. The grass

0:39:30.640 --> 0:39:33.879
<v Speaker 3>is always greener. Believe me, people in Miami know about it.

0:39:34.040 --> 0:39:36.280
<v Speaker 3>When our owners sold to Bruce Sherman and Derek Jeter,

0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:39.960
<v Speaker 3>they thought they had gotten a gift from heaven and

0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:41.880
<v Speaker 3>now it's like they want us back or something.

0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:47.200
<v Speaker 2>So these teams that you talked about do spend a lot.

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:49.400
<v Speaker 2>And we talked about Steve Cullen for a bit already.

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 2>But you mentioned the Phillies, you mentioned the padres. If

0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:55.440
<v Speaker 2>it's so financially irresponsible, do you have a take on

0:39:55.719 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 2>why they continue to do it?

0:39:57.840 --> 0:39:59.080
<v Speaker 4>Oh, because they want to win.

0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:02.320
<v Speaker 3>They because they an agent who says, hey, you're an octogenarian,

0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:04.719
<v Speaker 3>you have no ring. It's super fun to win a ring.

0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:07.040
<v Speaker 3>And you know what's more fun than winning one ring,

0:40:07.360 --> 0:40:10.160
<v Speaker 3>it's winning two rings. And so even once you win

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.120
<v Speaker 3>your first like we did in three, we spent the

0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:16.640
<v Speaker 3>next fourteen years chasing Amy trying to get the second ring.

0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:18.120
<v Speaker 4>And it makes you do.

0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:21.879
<v Speaker 3>Weird things because you feel like that you're invincible. When

0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:23.960
<v Speaker 3>you're a world champion, it's the greatest.

0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:24.360
<v Speaker 4>Feeling in the world.

0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:27.440
<v Speaker 3>And once you're world champion, you're always a world champion.

0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:30.920
<v Speaker 3>And then it becomes sort of a contest in the

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:34.080
<v Speaker 3>owners meeting. These owners are very competitive with each other.

0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:36.839
<v Speaker 3>Don't kid yourself. And when you have a bunch, I'll

0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:39.360
<v Speaker 3>tell you one funny thing. Lon Trust I love me.

0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:42.040
<v Speaker 3>He's the CEO of the Yankees. Long time he went

0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:44.880
<v Speaker 3>to owners meeting, He's wearing every one of his Yankee rings.

0:40:45.160 --> 0:40:48.400
<v Speaker 3>He had him on every finger and he'd walk into

0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:51.719
<v Speaker 3>the meeting room like that, and that just sort of

0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:55.960
<v Speaker 3>exemplifies the sort of competition. So owners want to get

0:40:56.040 --> 0:40:59.160
<v Speaker 3>rings if they can, but they realize that it's way

0:40:59.160 --> 0:40:59.960
<v Speaker 3>harder than they thought.

0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Fans want team I think fans across the league want

0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:08.880
<v Speaker 1>teams to spend more money. And if we're talking about

0:41:08.920 --> 0:41:11.560
<v Speaker 1>teams across the league losing money, how are they going

0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:15.200
<v Speaker 1>to how do in this day, with Rison's falling through,

0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:17.799
<v Speaker 1>how are they gonna start generating more revenue here for

0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:20.359
<v Speaker 1>the future. So hopefully some of the fans can get

0:41:20.360 --> 0:41:20.879
<v Speaker 1>what they want.

0:41:21.239 --> 0:41:23.279
<v Speaker 3>Well, you're seeing what MLB is trying to do with

0:41:23.400 --> 0:41:26.760
<v Speaker 3>nationalizing the digital rights in order to share more revenue

0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:29.279
<v Speaker 3>and take some away from the larger markets and give

0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.279
<v Speaker 3>it to the smaller markets. But again, I would say

0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:35.440
<v Speaker 3>to fans, would you And I've asked fans this, so

0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:38.719
<v Speaker 3>I'll ask you, guys, do you like Steven Ross owns

0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:42.839
<v Speaker 3>the Dolphins spends money hand over fist. They haven't won

0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:46.200
<v Speaker 3>a playoff game since two thousand. Does he get a

0:41:46.280 --> 0:41:50.239
<v Speaker 3>pass for that level of incompetence. It's not like the

0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:53.640
<v Speaker 3>Mariners never spend money. It's not like they don't sign

0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:57.920
<v Speaker 3>free agents. It's just that they haven't been hugely successful.

0:41:58.400 --> 0:42:01.080
<v Speaker 3>So is it that you want to win or do

0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:04.560
<v Speaker 3>you want to win with some sort of weird notion

0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:07.359
<v Speaker 3>of spending more money and more money. I've always found

0:42:07.400 --> 0:42:09.480
<v Speaker 3>that confusing. I would think you just want to win.

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.520
<v Speaker 3>Would you trade places with the Tampa Bay Rays? Low

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 3>pay roll, no attendance, but they're in the World Series

0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:17.000
<v Speaker 3>or in the playoffs almost every year.

0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:20.920
<v Speaker 1>I take the results. I think if I would to

0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:24.759
<v Speaker 1>speak for Mariner fans currently, the state they're in is

0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:28.000
<v Speaker 1>that they have tried almost everything else except spending, and

0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:31.279
<v Speaker 1>it hasn't worked. So it's how do you take that

0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:32.440
<v Speaker 1>next step forward?

0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I'll give some context to it. David, You're

0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:37.640
<v Speaker 2>absolutely right. The Mariners over the last twenty years at

0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:41.160
<v Speaker 2>points have spent on free agents Cano Beltrey, Richie Sex,

0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:44.799
<v Speaker 2>and there's others. Since the new ownership group took over,

0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:48.359
<v Speaker 2>they gave Julio Rodriguez the big extension. But when you

0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:52.600
<v Speaker 2>look at position player free agents, which have been a

0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:54.759
<v Speaker 2>glaring need in terms of offense for this team over

0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:57.600
<v Speaker 2>the last few years. The biggest contract they've ever handed

0:42:57.640 --> 0:43:00.120
<v Speaker 2>out in free agency was two years and twenty four million,

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:04.280
<v Speaker 2>and that that surpassed a one year, seven million dollar contract.

0:43:04.360 --> 0:43:07.280
<v Speaker 2>So over the last few years they're not exactly investing

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:09.560
<v Speaker 2>in their bats. You know.

0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:12.640
<v Speaker 3>It's it's interesting you say that because I am not

0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.080
<v Speaker 3>a big fan. You know are you would you rather

0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:16.960
<v Speaker 3>be a San Francisco Giants fan? And they had the

0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:20.280
<v Speaker 3>dynasty in ten, twelve, and fourteen, but they spend money

0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:23.319
<v Speaker 3>handover fist. You know, Matt Chapman, they extended him and

0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:27.320
<v Speaker 3>brought in Blake Snell and Solaire and it just doesn't

0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:31.800
<v Speaker 3>always work. And the thing about bats and players in general,

0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:36.440
<v Speaker 3>if I'm Jerry Depoto, I don't want to be asked

0:43:36.440 --> 0:43:40.880
<v Speaker 3>to sign Sodo or to sign Bregman because I'm not

0:43:40.960 --> 0:43:44.560
<v Speaker 3>in that market and I don't add value with those signings.

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:48.080
<v Speaker 3>Whoever gets Soto Bregman, you know, Christian Walker, who'd be

0:43:48.120 --> 0:43:50.880
<v Speaker 3>a good fit for Seattle. But I want my GM

0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:53.359
<v Speaker 3>to find the next seth Lugo. I don't want him

0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.480
<v Speaker 3>signing Robinson Cano. Find me a guy, give give him

0:43:56.520 --> 0:43:58.960
<v Speaker 3>forty five over three who no one wants and let

0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:01.319
<v Speaker 3>him be a cy Young fin finalist. Find me a

0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:05.279
<v Speaker 3>bat who's gonna be a return on the investment, who

0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:08.879
<v Speaker 3>will outperform a contract that nobody else wants because we've

0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:11.480
<v Speaker 3>got the best baseball people. And so what a lot

0:44:11.480 --> 0:44:13.960
<v Speaker 3>of owners are doing is now spending a lot of

0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:17.560
<v Speaker 3>money on their analytics and on how they evaluate players.

0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:21.240
<v Speaker 3>But it's gone too far and now you're losing out

0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:26.319
<v Speaker 3>on the ability of baseball people to identify value. Now

0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:29.680
<v Speaker 3>it's just computers identifying the value. And you don't really

0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:33.080
<v Speaker 3>win with just doing that. So to me, it's a combination.

0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:37.640
<v Speaker 3>And you know free agent spending. Man, you guys got Cano.

0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:40.600
<v Speaker 3>You don't think that still hurts even though he's a

0:44:40.600 --> 0:44:43.840
<v Speaker 3>new owner. That's sort of signing where there's all this

0:44:44.000 --> 0:44:47.160
<v Speaker 3>excitement during the off season and it ends up being crap.

0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:48.200
<v Speaker 4>I would know.

0:44:48.320 --> 0:44:50.640
<v Speaker 3>I've won an off season or two and ended up

0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:53.720
<v Speaker 3>being a crappy team. It's fun to win the off season,

0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:55.280
<v Speaker 3>but I'd rather win the season.

0:44:56.280 --> 0:44:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, go, So I quickly say, if the Mariner's

0:44:59.520 --> 0:45:01.040
<v Speaker 2>one with a fifth team million dollars pay roll and

0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:02.560
<v Speaker 2>they won the World Series, I wouldn't say a word.

0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:06.160
<v Speaker 2>It's all about winning andrega. Yeah, like TJ said, what

0:45:06.280 --> 0:45:08.719
<v Speaker 2>does it have to what do they have to do

0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:09.480
<v Speaker 2>to take the next steps?

0:45:09.520 --> 0:45:12.440
<v Speaker 4>Anyway, go have to make better decisions. Yeah, it's not

0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:13.520
<v Speaker 4>that they're not spending money.

0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:15.600
<v Speaker 3>If you look at what they did last year, they

0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:18.759
<v Speaker 3>signed players that if they hit, he'd be a genius.

0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:22.239
<v Speaker 3>You'd be calling for the extension. They just didn't hit,

0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:25.840
<v Speaker 3>and that's part of the game. It is impossible people

0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:28.640
<v Speaker 3>say that their own team has they draft terribly. No

0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:31.239
<v Speaker 3>one ever makes it. They get screwed on trades, and

0:45:31.239 --> 0:45:33.600
<v Speaker 3>look at how good the players are when they're traded away,

0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 3>and then they come here and they regress. All thirty

0:45:36.600 --> 0:45:38.160
<v Speaker 3>fan bases say that same thing.

0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:42.080
<v Speaker 1>David, this has been awesome. We appreciate you sharing some

0:45:42.120 --> 0:45:44.560
<v Speaker 1>of your insight here with us. It is. It has

0:45:44.600 --> 0:45:47.160
<v Speaker 1>really been an eye opening, eye opening experience here for

0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:49.560
<v Speaker 1>us today, and we hope some of our listeners learned

0:45:49.560 --> 0:45:50.919
<v Speaker 1>along as well. Thank you so much.

0:45:51.320 --> 0:45:52.719
<v Speaker 4>I appreciate it. Have a great day.

0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, that interview was certainly interesting. We learned a lot.

0:45:58.239 --> 0:45:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you learned a lot. We're gonna spend a

0:45:59.880 --> 0:46:02.040
<v Speaker 2>few minutes you're reacting to it before we wrap up

0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:05.520
<v Speaker 2>the podcast. So your biggest takeaway was what.

0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:09.880
<v Speaker 1>As I said before, it is a different perspective. It

0:46:10.000 --> 0:46:14.080
<v Speaker 1>comes from someone who is in ownership meetings, who's seen

0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:18.439
<v Speaker 1>books before, who's seen how these teams work operationally, where

0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the cash goes, and apparently where it doesn't go when

0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:24.919
<v Speaker 1>the teams, as he said, don't make as much money

0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:28.480
<v Speaker 1>as you think, and lots of them actually lose money.

0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:31.239
<v Speaker 1>But let's let's pick the simplest thing I would say

0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:33.640
<v Speaker 1>to react to, because there are some complicated things. He

0:46:33.719 --> 0:46:37.440
<v Speaker 1>brought up where he referenced Steve Cohen, for example, who

0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:40.000
<v Speaker 1>gets these big tax breaks as an owner for the

0:46:40.000 --> 0:46:42.200
<v Speaker 1>first five years. I'm not gonna sit here on this

0:46:42.280 --> 0:46:44.840
<v Speaker 1>podcast and explain tax code. If you want to go

0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:47.279
<v Speaker 1>back and listen a little bit closer and do some

0:46:47.360 --> 0:46:50.160
<v Speaker 1>googling and see what exactly he gets from that and

0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:52.920
<v Speaker 1>the benefits new owners get, feel free to go do that.

0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:55.719
<v Speaker 1>I think it would be a little monotone for us

0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:57.839
<v Speaker 1>to do that. But let's focus on one thing. Let's

0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:02.120
<v Speaker 1>let's pick a simple number. David said, the easy number

0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:03.960
<v Speaker 1>to look at when it comes to baseball teams and

0:47:04.040 --> 0:47:08.560
<v Speaker 1>if they're profitable or not is the comparison of revenue

0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:12.359
<v Speaker 1>and payroll. That player payroll should be fifty percent of

0:47:12.400 --> 0:47:15.359
<v Speaker 1>your operating revenue. If it is more than that you're

0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:18.440
<v Speaker 1>losing money. If it's less than that, you're making a profit. Now,

0:47:18.480 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 1>that stuck out to me because there has been this

0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:24.920
<v Speaker 1>chart floating around about twenty twenty three revenue and twenty

0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:27.600
<v Speaker 1>twenty and then twenty twenty four payroll. We'll use that

0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:32.239
<v Speaker 1>example on Twitter from all the teams in baseball, and

0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:35.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I will just clarify Lyle, I don't

0:47:35.600 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 1>know how accurate all of these revenue numbers are, if

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.200
<v Speaker 1>they're accurate to the number, if there's a margin of

0:47:41.320 --> 0:47:44.239
<v Speaker 1>error or whatever, because these teams aren't very transparent with

0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:47.080
<v Speaker 1>these numbers. But these are the numbers. It is these

0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:48.160
<v Speaker 1>numbers that we have.

0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:51.479
<v Speaker 2>It's what we have access to, right right, So.

0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:54.480
<v Speaker 1>There's some numbers out here of these teams where we

0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:57.200
<v Speaker 1>can take a look and use the information David gave

0:47:57.280 --> 0:48:03.919
<v Speaker 1>us to to contextualize this. What do you now contextualize

0:48:03.920 --> 0:48:04.200
<v Speaker 1>from this?

0:48:06.560 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 2>So when you crunch those numbers from the graph based

0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:14.799
<v Speaker 2>on the Mariner's earnings and how much should be spent

0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:17.759
<v Speaker 2>on payroll. If it's fifty percent, like David said, wow,

0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:21.000
<v Speaker 2>that means the Mariner's payroll should be one hundred and

0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:26.200
<v Speaker 2>ninety million dollars I have that right correct, Yes, I say, yes,

0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:27.960
<v Speaker 2>it's TJ's coughing and turned his mic off.

0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:31.359
<v Speaker 1>So what a shot anyway, let me yes, he's about

0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:34.040
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and ninety million dollars because it says.

0:48:33.760 --> 0:48:36.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so let me let me keep going here. Just

0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:39.440
<v Speaker 2>to put that into perspective, if the Mariners were going

0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:41.799
<v Speaker 2>to own up to that and actually do that, what

0:48:42.000 --> 0:48:44.640
<v Speaker 2>could they do with that this often Well, they could

0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:46.400
<v Speaker 2>sign one Soto, but you know what, we'll put that

0:48:46.440 --> 0:48:49.480
<v Speaker 2>one to the side. Even that one aside. They could

0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:52.520
<v Speaker 2>go sign William Thomas, they could go sign Christian Walker,

0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:56.000
<v Speaker 2>and they could go trade for Devin Williams and be

0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:56.880
<v Speaker 2>within the budget.

0:48:57.120 --> 0:48:58.600
<v Speaker 1>And you could trade for Nika Horner. Two.

0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:03.319
<v Speaker 2>Great, that sounds like an awesome offseason. And they're not

0:49:03.360 --> 0:49:05.239
<v Speaker 2>going to do that because oh no, we only have

0:49:05.280 --> 0:49:07.399
<v Speaker 2>fifty million dollars. About always fifty million dollars.

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Then, So what this chart does if we want to

0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:13.000
<v Speaker 1>look at it a little bit closer to contextualize what

0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:14.680
<v Speaker 1>you're saying. So you said it should be about one

0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:16.440
<v Speaker 1>hundred and ninety maybe a little bit higher for what

0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:18.560
<v Speaker 1>the Mariner should be based off of that number, David

0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:21.680
<v Speaker 1>gave us because this list tells us and it ranks

0:49:21.719 --> 0:49:26.360
<v Speaker 1>teams in terms of percentage of revenue spent. The lowest

0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:28.040
<v Speaker 1>team is the Raise. The top team is the Mets.

0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:31.840
<v Speaker 1>That should surprise absolutely nobody. It says the Mariners here

0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:35.080
<v Speaker 1>generated three hundred and ninety six million dollars of revenue

0:49:35.080 --> 0:49:38.480
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty three, and their payroll of for twenty

0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:41.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty four, they say one hundred and sixty million dollars,

0:49:42.280 --> 0:49:46.719
<v Speaker 1>and that equates to about forty percent or twenty third

0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:51.160
<v Speaker 1>in baseball in terms of percent percentage spent, meaning they

0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:54.240
<v Speaker 1>have about ten percent to work with before they start

0:49:54.280 --> 0:49:57.440
<v Speaker 1>actually losing money. So if that number is true, lyle

0:49:58.120 --> 0:50:00.000
<v Speaker 1>they have like a ten percent profit margin.

0:50:01.440 --> 0:50:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Also, it still rains true that even if you get

0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:09.640
<v Speaker 2>close to that fifty percent mark, the better product you

0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:12.560
<v Speaker 2>put on the field, more money you'll make, and then

0:50:12.600 --> 0:50:14.920
<v Speaker 2>the numbers go up, you make more money.

0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:20.400
<v Speaker 1>Crazy pretty sad to look at, and I will so

0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:23.440
<v Speaker 1>if we're looking at this. So according to David, twelve

0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:34.239
<v Speaker 1>teams lose money. Rockies, Braves, Cardinals, Giants, Phillies, Astros, Rangers, Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks,

0:50:34.280 --> 0:50:37.040
<v Speaker 1>Blue Jays, Mets. God, I'm looking at the Mets. They're

0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:41.120
<v Speaker 1>such an outlier. Eighty seven percent is what they are

0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:48.560
<v Speaker 1>payroll the revenue. So this chart isn't too hard to

0:50:48.600 --> 0:50:51.560
<v Speaker 1>find if you go look just look up revenue and

0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:54.680
<v Speaker 1>percentage and take a look at it for yourself, and

0:50:54.719 --> 0:50:56.640
<v Speaker 1>think about what David said when it comes to those

0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:59.879
<v Speaker 1>teams and which teams are willing to take risks when

0:50:59.880 --> 0:51:02.880
<v Speaker 1>it comes to losing money versus which teams are not.

0:51:03.000 --> 0:51:05.960
<v Speaker 1>The Mariners and not shocking fashion, are not willing to

0:51:06.120 --> 0:51:07.320
<v Speaker 1>take a risk losing money.

0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:12.480
<v Speaker 2>It's how they've operated for years and years and years. However,

0:51:13.400 --> 0:51:20.439
<v Speaker 2>they could operate with the goal and you know goal

0:51:20.480 --> 0:51:24.000
<v Speaker 2>in blueprint of not losing money but still spend a

0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:27.799
<v Speaker 2>lot more. I like. So having David on right, it's

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:32.360
<v Speaker 2>very clear that his thinking well well thought out, sound,

0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:34.920
<v Speaker 2>there's real perspective to it, and he has he has

0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:37.280
<v Speaker 2>been in those walls more than just about anybody listening

0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:40.680
<v Speaker 2>to this podcast, certainly more than us. But it's very

0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:45.040
<v Speaker 2>clear that that thinking is very much along the lines

0:51:45.120 --> 0:51:49.719
<v Speaker 2>of how Mariner's ownership probably thinks. This is probably how

0:51:49.719 --> 0:51:52.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the dialogue goes in their meetings. Similar

0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:55.240
<v Speaker 2>to what David said to us. Looking at the teams

0:51:55.239 --> 0:51:57.839
<v Speaker 2>that lose money. It correlates with the teams that spend

0:51:57.880 --> 0:52:00.960
<v Speaker 2>the most money, at least according to David. Not wanting

0:52:01.000 --> 0:52:04.319
<v Speaker 2>to get up against the budget, not wanting to take

0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:07.600
<v Speaker 2>risks a lot of this, and what David said does

0:52:08.520 --> 0:52:12.640
<v Speaker 2>lines up with the Mariners. So we like, obviously we

0:52:12.680 --> 0:52:14.960
<v Speaker 2>don't agree with what the Mariners are doing. I don't.

0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:19.520
<v Speaker 2>I haven't heard one person, period being saying I love

0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:21.719
<v Speaker 2>what this ownership group's done. I have not heard a

0:52:21.760 --> 0:52:25.560
<v Speaker 2>single person say that. But if you want perspective from

0:52:25.640 --> 0:52:29.400
<v Speaker 2>how they think, I think David gave us a decent

0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:33.719
<v Speaker 2>example and a decent simulation and replica of what that

0:52:33.760 --> 0:52:34.200
<v Speaker 2>looks like.

0:52:36.360 --> 0:52:39.160
<v Speaker 1>So we're just gonna have to see. And I'll say

0:52:39.160 --> 0:52:42.960
<v Speaker 1>my last thing on this is that what David is

0:52:43.000 --> 0:52:44.920
<v Speaker 1>saying in terms of fifty percent, and he used other

0:52:44.960 --> 0:52:48.480
<v Speaker 1>leagues as examples of this for being true. In other

0:52:48.600 --> 0:52:53.120
<v Speaker 1>cbas that have straight rev shares and have salary caps

0:52:53.160 --> 0:52:56.920
<v Speaker 1>and all this, the split is fifty to fifty between

0:52:56.960 --> 0:52:59.840
<v Speaker 1>players and owners because that's a profitability point for a

0:53:00.040 --> 0:53:04.120
<v Speaker 1>lot of these franchises fifty percent. And Major League Baseball

0:53:04.160 --> 0:53:06.719
<v Speaker 1>has a different structure with not having a salary cap

0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:08.799
<v Speaker 1>and not having a salary floor, so there's a little

0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:11.359
<v Speaker 1>bit more of a fluctuation with this. But even if

0:53:11.400 --> 0:53:14.719
<v Speaker 1>the owners really are losing money, I'm just gonna note this,

0:53:15.960 --> 0:53:21.719
<v Speaker 1>fans don't care because they want to win and they

0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:24.080
<v Speaker 1>want to see the team and the community brought together

0:53:24.560 --> 0:53:27.000
<v Speaker 1>with a good product on the field, whether or not

0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:29.960
<v Speaker 1>the people who are one percent or of one percent

0:53:30.560 --> 0:53:32.360
<v Speaker 1>lose some money on their business.

0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:37.319
<v Speaker 2>But then time is a flat circle because fans don't

0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:42.040
<v Speaker 2>care about owners and billionaires losing money, but the owners

0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:45.040
<v Speaker 2>don't care about the fans getting mad, So time's a

0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:48.600
<v Speaker 2>flat circle. Fans want the owners to care and don't

0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:51.040
<v Speaker 2>care if they lose money. Owners don't care if the

0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:53.960
<v Speaker 2>fans are unhappy. They just want people in the ballpark

0:53:54.000 --> 0:53:55.560
<v Speaker 2>and buying their product.

0:53:56.080 --> 0:54:00.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. What a dynamic, dog, What a dynamic I'm glad

0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:02.800
<v Speaker 1>we had David on though, because it is as different

0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:05.719
<v Speaker 1>a perspective as we've had on this topic as the

0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:10.240
<v Speaker 1>almost two years of this podcast that we've done. Very

0:54:10.520 --> 0:54:12.319
<v Speaker 1>very It was good to have it on.

0:54:12.840 --> 0:54:15.799
<v Speaker 2>Extremely interesting. I'm going to guess a lot of you

0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:20.239
<v Speaker 2>got to learn more than you ever knew about ownerships

0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:23.160
<v Speaker 2>and how they operate before listening to this or after

0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:24.960
<v Speaker 2>listening to this interview, because I know that we did

0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:27.200
<v Speaker 2>again were there. I said it before the start of

0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:29.319
<v Speaker 2>the interview. There were things that did not click in

0:54:29.360 --> 0:54:32.840
<v Speaker 2>my head that David helped us contextualize and say, oh, okay,

0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:36.000
<v Speaker 2>we might not agree with this, but this is why

0:54:36.080 --> 0:54:38.640
<v Speaker 2>sometimes they do what they do. Now, I'm sure there's

0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:41.000
<v Speaker 2>very smart people out there that have the exact opposite

0:54:41.040 --> 0:54:42.880
<v Speaker 2>opinion about this. We'll have to try to get some

0:54:42.920 --> 0:54:44.400
<v Speaker 2>of those people on in the future too, if we

0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:48.919
<v Speaker 2>can find them. But yeah, extremely interesting. If stuff comes

0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:52.960
<v Speaker 2>up again about the Mariners and their ownership, which sure

0:54:53.000 --> 0:54:56.400
<v Speaker 2>it will, I'd be fascinated to have David back on

0:54:56.480 --> 0:54:59.880
<v Speaker 2>again because most of the questions we had he answered,

0:55:00.239 --> 0:55:03.120
<v Speaker 2>and he had well thought out reasoning behind it all,

0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:05.400
<v Speaker 2>even if you don't agree. So I'm hoping he can

0:55:05.440 --> 0:55:07.440
<v Speaker 2>be kind of a springboard for us moving forward in

0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:09.759
<v Speaker 2>terms of if we have more questions. Oh, by the way,

0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:12.879
<v Speaker 2>last quick thing he mentioned the Robinson Cano contract being

0:55:12.880 --> 0:55:15.239
<v Speaker 2>a bad contract. We were up against the clock with

0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:17.520
<v Speaker 2>David a little bit because he's a busy guy, only

0:55:17.560 --> 0:55:20.719
<v Speaker 2>had X amount of time, so I didn't get the

0:55:20.760 --> 0:55:22.600
<v Speaker 2>chance to say, well, we thought that was a good contract.

0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:23.920
<v Speaker 2>We did not think that was a bad contract in

0:55:23.960 --> 0:55:25.560
<v Speaker 2>any way. But I guess that goes back to what

0:55:25.640 --> 0:55:27.960
<v Speaker 2>we've been talking about, where our perspective is going to

0:55:28.000 --> 0:55:28.560
<v Speaker 2>be different than his.

0:55:28.719 --> 0:55:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I mean the question it just is based

0:55:31.719 --> 0:55:33.759
<v Speaker 1>on all the winning that you had in the increased

0:55:33.960 --> 0:55:36.640
<v Speaker 1>the increased attendance you got from Robinson can oh, why

0:55:36.719 --> 0:55:37.759
<v Speaker 1>was that a bad contract?

0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Right? Exactly? Again, we didn't quite have the chance to

0:55:41.440 --> 0:55:43.680
<v Speaker 2>ask him that because he had been nice enough to

0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:46.600
<v Speaker 2>already give us a nice chunk of his time, and

0:55:46.960 --> 0:55:48.799
<v Speaker 2>again he's a busy guy. But maybe next time that'll

0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:50.839
<v Speaker 2>be something we have to circle back to. All Right,

0:55:51.400 --> 0:55:53.439
<v Speaker 2>that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine

0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. You want to

0:55:55.640 --> 0:55:57.480
<v Speaker 2>listen to the full form podcast, you can do so

0:55:57.760 --> 0:55:59.759
<v Speaker 2>wherever you get your audio pods to make sure it

0:55:59.800 --> 0:56:02.239
<v Speaker 2>down load, make sure rate and review, leave a five

0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:04.120
<v Speaker 2>star review. You're really helping us out if you do.

0:56:04.880 --> 0:56:07.800
<v Speaker 2>If you're a watch on YouTube, like comment and please

0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:10.680
<v Speaker 2>hit that that subscribe button. It really helps support the channel.

0:56:11.000 --> 0:56:13.200
<v Speaker 2>If you're on social media, which I know most of

0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:16.960
<v Speaker 2>you are, go follow us over there on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter,

0:56:17.080 --> 0:56:20.760
<v Speaker 2>YouTube shorts, blue sky at Marine Layer Pie. That's TJ.

0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:23.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.

0:56:23.680 --> 0:56:24.520
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk to you soon.