1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: So and then coming to see the show, and it 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: was the first thing of mine they've ever had seen. 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: I feel like they finally saw me as a sort 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: of full person because I had been hiding my art 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: from them essentially since I was a teenager, even more 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: tightly than being gay, Like they could know that was gay, 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: but oh my god, like an artist writing about it, 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: that was like two. You guys may not claim him, 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: but he is y'alls, even though he doesn't say what up. No, 10 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: Michael R. Jackson is from Detroit, and he has done 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: something no other playwright has done before. American playwright. Pay 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: close attention because this is a very special naked past. 13 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:52,959 Speaker 1: Ward through the commercials were back on the other side, 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: Every champion and carry champion is to be a champian, 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: a champion and carry champion and carry Chappie, being and 16 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: carry chappion and carry champion. Fraid sports and entertaining can 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: naked in the world were vulnerable considered, We come and 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: remove the vail from entertainments elite. It's the difference between 19 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: what it's real and with the public seas. So here's 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: your favorite celebrities behind the scenes. It's refreshing up. Then 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: the whole story, specific life, ought to rennivents, to shape 22 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: the person that you here. We gotta champion. They carry champion. 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: They girl, you did it. It's the greatest sports and 24 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: entertaining connaked with every champion. They carry champions to be 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: a champion of Champion. They carry champion and they Chappy 26 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: Kota Champion. They carry champion, they carry champion. Raider fraid 27 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: of the sports and entertaining and naked wi. Hey, everybody, 28 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: welcome back to Naked um. So today's guest is not 29 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: the Michael Jackson because we know he has passed away. Uh, 30 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: not to be confused with him, but Michael R. Jackson 31 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: very similar to Michael B. Jordan's. You have to put 32 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: the initial and when someone else is famous, you have 33 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: to put the initial in. I repeat, when someone else 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: is famous as famous as Michael Jordan's and Michael Jackson. 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: Michael R. Jackson is an American playwright. He's a composer, 36 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: He's a lyricist. He is to me most known for 37 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: A Strange Loop. That is a play in which he wrote, 38 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: he did the music. I mean, he's absolutely amazing and 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: it won the Pulitzer Prize for Drama to Tony Award 40 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: for Best Musical. I mean, what he has been able 41 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: to do with this play is something special. It took 42 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: him twenty years to write A Strange Loop. If you 43 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: haven't seen it on Broadway, I encourage you to do so. 44 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: I'm telling myself that as well, because I have not 45 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: seen it. I first heard of Michael R. Jackson when 46 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: he was on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah, and 47 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: Trevor Noah talked about how when people left the theater 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: they left it with hum and uh and they just 49 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: were taking in all the information that they were able 50 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: to see play out right in front of them. Michael R. 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: Jackson says his play will make you do one of 52 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: two things. It would be a mirror or it will 53 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: be a window. The mirror will reflect back what you 54 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: already feel. As a black gay man um who was 55 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: slightly overweight living in New York, he wrote this story 56 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: very much about himself again twenty years in the making, 57 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: and he gave people a window into his soul, but 58 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 1: also for those who may not have ever felt like 59 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: they belong. It was a mirror as well, looking back 60 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: at you window, pay attention. Mirror reflecting what we feel. 61 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoy this conversation. He's funny. Um, 62 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: he's a light, he's intelligent, and he talks about what 63 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: a strange loop literally means. I think we all can relate, 64 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: Sit back, relax, and enjoy. Michael R. Jackson on Naked Chi. 65 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm in the presence of royalty. I don't ever believe 66 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: in the history of this well decorated podcast known as Naked, 67 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: have we ever had someone on uh that has won 68 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: a Policy Price for Drama, a Tony Award for Best 69 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: Book of a Musical, and and so while simultaneously being 70 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: from Detroit and now, I've had people on here from Detroit. 71 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: I've had people from Michigan. You know what I mean. 72 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: But you know what up? Though? Do you say that 73 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: my brother is a more of what up than me? 74 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: That's not where I live, Carrie. Um, I do not 75 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: do the what up. No, I'm from where people do 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: what up? I just I never I never did that. Yeah, 77 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: you never bought it. Well, welcome so much to Naked. 78 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here indulging me. Congratulations on all 79 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: your success um, and for those folks who are not 80 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: aware of who he is, you will get to know 81 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: him today. Ladies and gentlemen. Um, playwright, composer, lyricists. So 82 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: young Michael R. Jackson on Naked, I have to ask 83 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: you about your upbringing. I know I'm joking about Detroit, 84 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: but tell me about your upbringing. How you mother, father, sister, brother, 85 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: how many siblings? What were your or what what was 86 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: your day to day life like as you grew up 87 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: in Detroit. Um. I came from a pretty you know, 88 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: normal I was described my my upbringing as middle middle class. Um. 89 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: Just like my father was a police officer. My mother 90 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: was worked in the finance department for General Motors. UM. 91 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: I had one older brother. Uh. My parents kept me 92 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: and my brother like very very busy so that we 93 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: couldn't get into any trouble. So I was like in 94 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: every arts program and choir and dance class, acting stuff. Um. 95 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: We were at church all the time because we were 96 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: very involved in church. I played piano for church for 97 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: for two of the choirs for most of my sort 98 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: of middle school to high school years. Um, you know, 99 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: and I just was like very like just sort of 100 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: a regular, regular regular. The thing regular deangular kind of upbringing, 101 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: middle middle class is interesting because I too have some 102 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: friends a lot of friends actually from Detroit who could 103 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: describe their upbringing as middle middle class. Um, if you 104 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: look back on the family dynamic, what were your interest 105 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: and how in fact did your parents or or yourself 106 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: feed those those interests, that that that passion that is 107 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: now developed into what we know. So, as my mother 108 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: would always say, he always had a book in his 109 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: hand when I was young, I'd love to read. I 110 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: was always reading. My mom got me like weekly reader stuff, 111 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: and I was just like constantly a lot of reading, 112 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: which is what got me into writing, because the more 113 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: I would read, the more I was like, I want 114 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: to I want to make people feel the way that 115 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: this makes me feel when I opened a book. And 116 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: so a lot of my you know, early years, because 117 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: I also was doing child acting too, and that was 118 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: some sort of abandoned that for writing. Um, you know, 119 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: I it was just me writing little poems and short 120 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: stories and just sort of imitating whatever I read in 121 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: a book, and my parents encouraged. My parents are always 122 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: very encouraging the I don't think they really knew what 123 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: I was doing, but they liked that I was doing 124 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: something that seemed like creative and productive and not you know, 125 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: something bad. So I just, um, I sort of did that. 126 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: And I took a lot of writing courses both in 127 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: high school and outside of high school, and my parents 128 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: paid for stuff like that, and they really sort of 129 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: let me kind of you know, case my my bliss 130 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: in that way. Well here's what's interesting. Were you uh, 131 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: can you rather? Can you sing? Can you hum? What 132 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: is your Yeah? So I definitely were very musical. I 133 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: started playing piano when I was eight years old. I 134 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: started seeing mean and like church choir when I was 135 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: like a like seven, Um, I was saying in an 136 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: all a Black all City classical chorus all through middle school, 137 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: in high school, um or man it was elementary in 138 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: high school, and um, I had a I did have 139 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: a musical aufinity. I have perfect pitch. Um. But I 140 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily trying to write music or anything at that point, 141 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: but I loved music and music was always playing in 142 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: our house. What does it mean that you had a 143 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: perfect pitch? Meaning I cannot a pitch like if you 144 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: gave me, like if you sang a note, I could 145 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: tell you what it was just by hearing it, and 146 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: I can sort of like match pitch perfectly. Is there 147 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: something that you can see right now that you just 148 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 1: are like you just you go to when you're like 149 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: falla la la la. I remember that's what they do 150 00:08:54,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: in the movies, just for like warm up. Probably my 151 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: warm up is, uh, that's what I like to do, 152 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: me too. I'm glad that we both like to do 153 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: name that's right. I'm glad we got that out of 154 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: I just want to get that out of the way. 155 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: And I'm glad that it's gonna be hard for me 156 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: to be able to do this entire interview if we 157 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: didn't warm up the same, uh, for someone who is 158 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: so musically challenged, all of even all my friends, anybody 159 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: that I know. And this is like a gift if 160 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: people are like I wish I could sing, people wish 161 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: that they can sing. Of all the talents, you wish 162 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: you could have that. But not only do you have 163 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: a talent to sing, you can write. You can do 164 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: You think the to go hand in hand. You can. 165 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: I think composing and singing goes hand in hand, but 166 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: writing all of that, all of that goes hand in hand. 167 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: Not necessarily. I mean, I think everyone can sing. Maybe 168 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: everyone can't sing well, but every I think everyone has 169 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: a unique voice that makes a sound that's only they 170 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: can make. Um uh. I will say that like having 171 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: like a particular ear from music has helped my writing, 172 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: and so they do go on hand in hand. But 173 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: there are writers who don't have like, you know, necessarily 174 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: the most pleasant voices, and they're like, you know, writers 175 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: I know who can sing me under the table like I, 176 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, sort of. And also I like studied singing 177 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: a little bit, so like there's there's some of that 178 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: that like I over the years, you know, taking singing 179 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: in these these choirs and whatnot, I you know, learned 180 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of technique that I brought with me 181 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: into my you know, writing, even though I don't sing 182 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: professionally or anything. So it's not uncommon for for especially 183 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: in our culture, Black culture, for us to grow up 184 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: in the church and seeing church right and seeing in 185 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: church and I know I was in couldn't necessarily hold 186 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: a you know, a really good tone or pitch. I 187 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: don't know, you were singing for Jesus. I was singing 188 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: for Jesus. I was singing for the Lord. And that's 189 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: what I was told. But I thought I could say, 190 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: you can tell me I was toned deaf, But I 191 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: thought I could sing. That's what church is for than 192 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: we could sing well. We know, we know, we know 193 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: many people who could not sing well. But he saying 194 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: in the church, thank you Jesus. So here you are 195 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: with this this natural talent that your parents nurtured. And 196 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: I find that beautiful because some parents don't even know 197 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: that their kid has this natural ability. And as you said, 198 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: you didn't your parents didn't necessarily know what you had, 199 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: but they were supporting you, and that's all that matters 200 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: to me. When did you get the opportunity to showcase 201 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: what you had been, you know, owning all your all 202 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: your life as an amateur, if you will, undiscovered as 203 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: a writer. Yeah. Well, so I I wrote fiction in 204 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: Powetur and I was in high school and I got 205 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: published in a couple of like small literary magazines and 206 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: at my school's literary magazine, and so people would see 207 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: little things like that, and my parents would see little 208 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: bits because I always tried to hide my writings from 209 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: them because I was like embarrassed that they would not 210 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 1: get it or not like it or whatever. So I 211 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: was always hiding it from them. But I like people 212 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: who like around my school, and some folks you know 213 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: in the sort of team literary art scene. Um, they 214 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: were aware of my work, you know at different little 215 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: things that I would do, but uh, other than that, 216 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: like it was kind of you know, just a small thing. Um. 217 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: And then like when my my sort of big break 218 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: was my musical or Strange Loop. That was like my 219 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: first big thing that I did in New York because 220 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: I've worked on it for so long. Really m before 221 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: that only children, but you didn't think that was so 222 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: that was something that was not a professional um production 223 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: that was on the n y U Maine stage for 224 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: college students, which I'm not. I'm they're proud of it. 225 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: But also I wrote that with a collaborator, So I 226 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: didn't write the music for that. Okay, okay, but your 227 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: first one was A Strange Loop. Talked to me about 228 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: a Strange Look, you have worked on it for how 229 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: many years? And just by way of background, tell everyone 230 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah, So A Strange Moove is a 231 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: musical about a young fat black a musical theater writer 232 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: named Usher who works as an usher at a Broadway 233 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: show who's ranting A musical about a young fat black 234 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: a musical theater writer named Usher who's working on a product, 235 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: working on a musical, who works, who works in a show, 236 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: a Broadway show, and is writing musical about a young 237 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: fat black and then usher who works as an usher 238 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: to Broadway musical etcetera, etcetera, and sort of cycling through 239 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: his own self hatred. Uh, and he has an ensemble 240 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: of his thoughts who sort play everyone in the world, 241 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: including like his parents, and projections of people in the 242 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: writing industry, the theater industry, and and so on and 243 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: so forth. And he's sort of like going through having 244 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: a conversation with himself, all while trying to write a 245 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: musical about himself. And you wrote that for how long? 246 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write that to 247 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: you got to it was so precious you decided to 248 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: give it to the world. How long did that take? 249 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: So it started off as a monologue that I uh 250 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: began writing right after I graduated from undergrad when I 251 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: was about twenty three years old, and it got to 252 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: Broadway earlier this year, um and on forty one, so 253 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: that's eighteen years in. You were awarded the Political Prize 254 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: for Drama for A Strange Loop, becoming the very first 255 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: musical theater writer to win that Award Wow. In twenty nineteen, 256 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: let Me Go Back received a World from Me year 257 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: correct a playwrights Playwrights Rison in New York? Is that correct? 258 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: With a page seventy three in association with page seventy 259 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: three Productions. When the reception was more than what I'm 260 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: sure you imagined because you had hands for eighteen even 261 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: running for eighteen years, I can't imagine being that patient 262 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: with any any piece of my work. But you artists 263 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: are something different. That's why, like the artists are something 264 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: different because you can hold onto it and you can 265 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: perfect it, and you can and I could. I I 266 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: assume you were going through different life stages and adding 267 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: to it as you as you live. Right, it was. 268 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: It was a piece that very much changed as I changed. 269 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: It would change over the years. I mean something stayed, 270 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: but it was definitely a living sort of organism for 271 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: a long time. When you get this this these rave reviews, 272 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: because it's a tough place to to live, right, Um, 273 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: what are you thinking? Are you thinking, Wow, they get me, 274 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: I am accepted or I'm so surprised. Well, the interesting 275 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: thing has for me, especially since coming to Broadway. But 276 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: this was also true when we were running off Broadway 277 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: and even in Washington, d C. Is that sometimes we 278 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: got a lot of good reviews, but like every once 279 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: in a while they would be like a bad one 280 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: or sort of middling one, and I would sometimes read 281 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: all of them, and the thing I would notice is 282 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: that sometimes even in the good reviews, I felt like 283 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: they missed the point, and sometimes in the bad reviews, 284 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: I felt like they missed the point like they were 285 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: So I had to like really take a step back 286 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: from feeling accepted or not accepted based on what any 287 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: of these reviewers were saying, because sometimes they just might 288 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: be on another planet than what I was on or 289 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: felt that I was on. So I felt interested in 290 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: how people we're receiving the show, but I didn't like 291 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: internalize it, and sort of I was talking to someone 292 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: earlier today about this, and I sort of say that 293 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: my feeling about the success of The Strange Loop and 294 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: everything that's sort of followed is that it's something that 295 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: my mother used to say about being Christian as little, 296 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: when we were a little, when I was a little, 297 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: kids to say, we're in the world, we're not of 298 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: the world. So that's that's sort of how I feel 299 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: about it. In some ways that like I have to 300 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: have a kind of distance from people's reaction and there 301 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: are in their analysis and all that of the show, 302 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: even when it's when it's when it's accepted and considered 303 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: one of the best really because because like it's so 304 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: because it's so much and like if you just if 305 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: you start internalizing that too much, then I you you 306 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: get like this gigantic, overinflated ego out. And also I 307 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: have other things that I want to write. You don't 308 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: want to be known just this. It's almost like a 309 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: star that has the one great hit you don't want me. Yeah, 310 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: I mean, but here's the truth, Like on my grades 311 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: or in my obituary. When I die, it will be 312 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: like Pulitzer Prize winner or whatever, Tony Aboard winner for strangers. 313 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: And I totally accept that. Yeah, you're wrong, right, Like 314 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: and I love that striendships my baby. What what I 315 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: guess what I'm just saying is that, like I can't 316 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: internalize that because I have no work to do. When 317 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: you say you have more work to do, I'd like to. 318 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: I'd like to take a moment too to talk about 319 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: what I think is interesting. Just you know, I'll say 320 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: the quiet part out loud. You talk about growing up 321 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: in the church, but you're openly gay. What type of 322 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: relationship did you have with your parents when they found 323 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: out that you were gay? Did did that? And the 324 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: people around you? And it's more specifically in the church. 325 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: In the church, people you thought were friends who may 326 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: have not been as warm so the interests so that 327 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: when I when I came out, Um, it was not 328 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: a positive experience with my family at all. Um, I'll 329 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: be like very honest about that. But what's also true 330 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: is that they loved me, like very very very much, 331 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: and they'd love me very very very much and they 332 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: are like my biggest supporters. And I think, you know, 333 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: especially having you know, gotten older and time and things 334 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: change or whatever and perspectives change. The thing that I 335 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: know is that neither one of us knew really how 336 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: to take care of each other in that moment when 337 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: they were learning something new about me. Um, and I 338 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: also didn't know how to take care of me, you know, 339 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: like it was all it was like a it was 340 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: just a new element in our relationship. But um it 341 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: but like on the face it was like horrible, like 342 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: truly truly horrible. Um. Other also knew other kids who 343 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: had experiences where their families sent out and they're some 344 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: of their experiences were way worse than mine, Like I 345 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: had a friend or it was a relative actually who 346 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: her mother like threw her out of the house. That 347 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: was never going to happen to me. Ever, that was 348 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: like not even in the realm of possibility. I was 349 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: afraid that it was, but it never that was never 350 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: going to happen your parents, like love. Do you think 351 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: if your parents knew before you told them? I do, 352 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: Which is why I think that it actually was as 353 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: emotionally charged as it was, because I think it was 354 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: this sort of confirmation of something that they were maybe 355 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: hoping would not come to be or if they wouldn't 356 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: have to deal with it um, which is, you know, 357 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: something that happens in so many families, and it doesn't 358 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: have to be about being gay. It could be about 359 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: many many things. You know, when you told them, yes, 360 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: you said it wasn't a positive experience, But how long 361 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: did it take them to settle in with it? They 362 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: love you no matter what, But how long did it 363 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: allow How long before you felt it started to be 364 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: I think it's it took a long. It took a 365 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: many years because but it took many years in part 366 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: because I instead of really owning it, I sort of 367 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: ran away from it, like I put up all like 368 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: with them, where I just would after that moment sort 369 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: of passed and I went to college because I like him, 370 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: It was this happen when I was about seventeen, so 371 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: like I only had like a like a basically another 372 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: year in the house before I left, and so I 373 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: just then we just would not talk about it, like 374 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: it's somebody trying. And they sometimes asked me about what 375 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: are you doing in New York? Or do you do 376 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: you have a girlfriend? Or what are you doing? Like 377 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: they were all trying to find a ways to talk 378 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: about it, and I just would like deflect like the 379 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: fleck because I that in that initial moment of coming 380 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: out to them was so much that I just didn't 381 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: I was too afraid and I felt too many feelings 382 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: and I start had to build a wall around myself 383 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: and just not talk about it. But I you know, 384 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: the years of that, we weren't warn me. I went 385 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: to therapist and to talk about my feelings and other 386 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: feelings that were going on, you know, and eventually I 387 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: got to a place and I and also writing them 388 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: show was a way of of sort of unpacking some 389 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: of the feelings that I was having and going to therapy, 390 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: and like in therapy, finally after in the many different therapists, 391 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: like the last one, one of the last ones I 392 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: went to, we really sort of had a breakthrough with 393 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: me where I sort of realized that I had been 394 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: carrying around a sort of core self loathing and just 395 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: accepting it as a condition of life, and that it 396 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: was getting in the way of me having relationships with 397 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: people and like being being able to feel okay in 398 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: the world and and and working on that, which also 399 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: was something that I was exploring in the show. It 400 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: it like cracked something open, and I think it was 401 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: at that moment where I was able to then go 402 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: back to my parents and sort of be a little 403 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: bit more transparent with them. And the truth of it 404 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: is that we don't really talk about my sexuality at 405 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: all in any way. I mean, there's nothing really to 406 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: talk about. I'm not dating anyone but like um. But 407 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: they also in their own ways have made little strides 408 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: that I've noticed, like for example, at the church that 409 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: I was raised in the pastor there who was not 410 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: the pastor when I was growing up there as a 411 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: new pastor. But he's like very very homophobic, and he's 412 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: and he's like homophobic in a way of like one 413 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: to change church by laws and and tell people who 414 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: to vote for and and all this stuff from the pulpit. 415 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: And my parents don't like that. And they don't they 416 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: don't accept that and like and and a lot of 417 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: their views have softened about things that they would have 418 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: taken a much harder line on when I was a teenager. 419 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: And that was the evolution that they did all by themselves. 420 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: It's not like I was there being like go to 421 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: a p flag mediator or whatever. Like I didn't. I 422 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: was like, I had to deal with my own self. 423 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: You have to deal with your own selves. And I 424 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: think that over the years, their their love for me 425 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: and then watching me continue to go on with life 426 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: helped them get to another place and so so and 427 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: then coming to see the show because they came and 428 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: spot at at Clarence Horizons and it's the first thing 429 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: of mine they've ever had seen. I feel like they 430 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: finally saw me as a a full person because I 431 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: had been hiding my art from them essentially since I 432 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: was a teenager, even more tightly than being gay, like 433 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: they could know I was gay, but oh my god, 434 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: like an artist writing about it, that was like too 435 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: much in my mind. Don't go anywhere. We have more 436 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: from Michael R. Jackson. Every champion and care every champion 437 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: is to be a champion, a champion and carry Chappion 438 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: and carry Chapiona. Champion and carry Chappion and carry Cheppids 439 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: and Spotson and the tammingk and naked work every champion 440 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: and carry champions. To be a Champiana champion, they carry Chappion, 441 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: the champion, they carry Champion and carry Chappi and the 442 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: taming can make war. We paid our bills. Y'all stuck 443 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: with me. I appreciate it, or stayed with me rather 444 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: more with Michael R. Jackson. This year Tony Awards You 445 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: Listen a Strange Loop was nominated for eleven awards, winning 446 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: Best Musical and Best Book of a Musical eleven Awards. 447 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: Tony Awards is the highest that you can get if 448 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: you're on Broadway. It is it is. It is the 449 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: super Bowl because I'm a sportswoman. It is the NBA Finals. 450 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: It's your chip, It's it's it's it's Michael Jordan's six rings. 451 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: It is. It is something that that creatives love to 452 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: get if they can live in that world. It's called 453 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: the egot. They want to win all of them. Right 454 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: if you are comment saying he wanted the ego, which 455 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: is the Emmy, the Grammy, the Oscar, the y Jennifer 456 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: Hudson got it correct because of ourselves. Yea unheard of 457 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: okay talking because you're okay, okay, a producer on our show. 458 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: And so she became an egot when we won Best Musical. 459 00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: It's unheard of. And you, while you say your pearance 460 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: probably softened over the years, and that was their evolution. 461 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: You have, whether it's willingly or unwillingly, or knowingly or unknowingly, 462 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: have become a hero in the lb g t Q community, 463 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: making sure I get all lgbt Q community, making sure 464 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: I get all my letters together. Um, And you have 465 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: been called literally a hero. They they have said you 466 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: have won awards, where from my understanding, you've been named 467 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: among the fifty heroes in the community. Um. A nation, 468 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: a nation toward equality, acceptance and dignity for all people, 469 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: leading the nation. Rather, Uh, did you realize that and 470 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the right word. A 471 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: Strange Loop became not a calling card but a um 472 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: an example of what was and what should be for 473 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: this community. Something they can say often like the color 474 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: purple Minister society there are and I say minis a 475 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: society because I grew p in l A. And people 476 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: started just seeing really what was going on in this 477 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: world for these little black kids who had no other options, 478 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: right these gangs to boizenhood. If you will write I 479 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: love and Backtball, I'm thinking of all the different films 480 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: that were just they came into the culture and they 481 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: and they and they grab, they grab everyone's attention and 482 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: they say, this is what I've been trying to say. 483 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: So Food, I've been trying to say this, but I 484 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: didn't know. How did you realize that a Strange Loop 485 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: would be that I didn't because it began just such 486 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: a personal testimony that was just truly just for me, 487 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: and then initially and and so then it was incredible 488 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: to me that over time it became something that was 489 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: for many people UM across the spectrum, like black, white, 490 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: or like the people who are fans of Strange Loop 491 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: are our legion and are quite a diverse crow out 492 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: and um, and that to me is a beautiful thing. 493 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: But that's not that wasn't my intention. But that's I 494 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: think when you share something so personal, you find out 495 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: that other people share like that you're not alone and 496 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: that other people often feel the same. What do you 497 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: hear as you walk down the street? What do people 498 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: tell you about a strangely How does it affect them? 499 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: People tell me that it's, um, it's like life changing 500 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: for them, or that it's some of this. Man I 501 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: tell a story often told me that it opened up 502 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: a dialogue and his family about his sexuality because they 503 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: had not been accepting and he brought some of them 504 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: to see the show and they and and after years 505 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: of sort of not being able to really talk to 506 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: him or accept him, I guess the way the show 507 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: is constructed, they were able to like have the caabler 508 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: to talk about sexuality. That was really powerful. Um. So 509 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: many people have just said how meaningful is is them? 510 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: Or that they felt seen or or that they learn 511 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: something that they didn't know. And that's why I always 512 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: say that for some people the show is a mirror 513 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: and for other people the show is a window, and 514 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: that both of those experiences can live together in harmony 515 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: um and people can sort of experience this the same thing, 516 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: expect take from it what they need, but also share 517 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: that with their neighbors. And to me, that's a really 518 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: powerful testament to what theater can do. How does it 519 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: feel to have all these accolades when you're just writing 520 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: about yourself? Is there any pressure about what's next? That's 521 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: that big? Well? Also, it's not just myself, You're right, 522 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: it's like and I don't think that the pieces autobiographical. 523 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: You're right, and you're absolutely right. It's a mix of 524 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: fact and fiction. And the character Usser he's a part 525 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: of me, but he's not the whole. You know. I'm 526 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: forty one. Usser is forever, will forever be going. But so, 527 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: I guess it feels good to be able to share 528 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: quote unquote myself with people because so much of our 529 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: world is actually about pretending and about not being authentic, 530 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: and about not really sharing what's in your heart and 531 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: your mind and your spirit. And so it feels good 532 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: that I have something where I was able to share 533 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: my heart and mind and spirit with people and they 534 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: can share it back, and there's an exchange of energy there. 535 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: What do you mean they can share about well, because 536 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: when you're in the audience for the show, you're you're 537 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: giving energy to the performers up there, and then they 538 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: get it get it back to you, and it's like 539 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: it's a loop. It's coming, it's constantly, and the way 540 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: the show is written, it's it's some some parts are 541 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: more and that some parts of the audience, some parts 542 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: of more aim than other parts of the audience. But 543 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: everybody's learning together how to watch it and how to 544 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: experience it. And then suddenly there's this moment where everybody 545 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: in the theater is invited to clap along together, and 546 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: then everybody has to decide how they feel about that moment. 547 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: It's a really complicated moment, and there's an energy swirl 548 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: it's just happening there. That's really powerful. And then I 549 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: I often will go to the show and at the 550 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: when at curtain and people will come up to me 551 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: and they want to talk to me about how the 552 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: show made them feel. And they're giving me energy when 553 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: they talk to me about what it means to them 554 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: or or what they enjoyed, you know, And that's I 555 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: think really powerful and that and that's that that energy 556 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: can't be destroyed. And well, I have so many thoughts, 557 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: but what I the the overwhelming sentiment is I'm a 558 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: big believer that every now and again a voice comes 559 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: along right for for your generation, for your community, or 560 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: for your culture. UM. And when you can hit all 561 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: three of those, that's something special. So you have been 562 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: regarded as all three someone who's speaking for a community, 563 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,239 Speaker 1: for the culture, and for the generation for a generation. UM. 564 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: And it's hard to do that. But it also reminds 565 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: me that I think, you know, the first thing, You're 566 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: highly intelligent. That's the first thing that I'm thinking, right, 567 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: that's that's the first thing you think when you're talking. 568 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: Was like your emotional i Q matches Obviously, what I 569 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: think your book smarts would be to create, to be 570 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: able to create such a piece that that does transcend 571 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: because it's unheard of UM. And it's always special when 572 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: it does happen and it and it's beautiful when it 573 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: it is being acknowledged. And we live in a society 574 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: that loves to label. What do you think a Strange 575 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: Loop's purpose will be historically? How will this semi autobiographical 576 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: UM play be received in the future? UM? You know, 577 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: I can only I collind you what I hope that 578 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: it is. I don't know what will happen, but I 579 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: hope that it is seen as a duly noted complex 580 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: um piece of art to be reckoned with and and 581 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: something that is black and queer and gay and and 582 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: and messy that people grapple with for years. That it 583 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: that it's that it's something that speaks to the human 584 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: condition um in a universal way. We're in a way 585 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: that one can uh proceed as universal because especially because 586 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: so often we like to think of things that are black. 587 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: It's sort of niche or sort of um, not fully 588 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: human or not fully or I'm not saying you me 589 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: we think this, but the world can often sort of 590 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: think of things that are black. Is kind of like 591 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: one dimensional or stereotypical or whatever those things are. And 592 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: I really wanted to let to make a lie of that, 593 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 1: which I mean it is a lie, but I wanted 594 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: to really make a lie of it by creating this 595 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: piece that shows a black spirit in as a universe 596 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: as averse and that and that people can go inside 597 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: that universe, but also that universe is inside of them too. 598 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: That's what humanity is, say that again that you can 599 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: go inside of the universe, but the universe can go 600 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: can go inside of you because each of us is 601 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: made up. Everybody has a strange moove. Everyone, everybody has 602 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: like all these little ways of seeing the world and 603 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: who you are and what makes you you? And so 604 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: in this show you get to see what makes us 605 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: your usher and some of the things that make us 606 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: your usher or what makes you or you or you 607 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: or you or you maybe not all of him, but 608 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: the parts of him that are important. There's a song 609 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: moment in the show where he has a really intense experience, 610 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: a really negative experience when he hooks up with this 611 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: older white man and it's a very specific thing that 612 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: can that that I know many black aim that have 613 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: gone through. But he leaves that experience and he sings 614 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: a song called Boundaries where he goes, why did I 615 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: do that? What that? What did that do for me? 616 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: And everyone literally everyone has had a moment where they 617 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: have felt like that about something you preaching to acquire 618 00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: Right now, I can go down something. So all things, 619 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: whether it's your career, where there's your personal life mentioned 620 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: here and it's something that you wish that you had 621 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: said to I loved one before they passed away, or 622 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: something that you wished you would hug somebody before they died, 623 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: or were you There's so many things, so many regrets. 624 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: Why did I do that? That's beautiful, Michael R. Jackson. 625 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: The R is important because there are a lot of 626 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: is out here in the world, and so you don't 627 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: want to be confused. The R is important. I will 628 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: not forget. Can you tell me what the R stands for? UM? 629 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: It stands for ramon? Oh? I like it? Okay, ramone? 630 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: Why do you hesitate like you don't want me to 631 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: call you remote? Can I call? Do your friends call 632 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: you remote? Road is literally no one no one literally 633 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,280 Speaker 1: no one literally, not even my mother literally no putting 634 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,439 Speaker 1: you Harry Champion, and literally no one a strange loop. 635 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: Everyone has their own strange loop the way we see 636 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: the world. And I applaud your um. What you may 637 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: not think is bravery, but I applaud your bravery and 638 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: your boldness and your unapologetic nous. And I do believe 639 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: when a community is marginalized, it takes a certain voice 640 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: to speak and speak boldly about it. And that is 641 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: what you're doing with art and God blessed because it 642 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: can't be easy. I mean, no matter how much success, 643 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: no matter how much attention you get, no matter how 644 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: much money you make, UM, it still comes with all that, 645 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: whatever that could be in your case. That was a 646 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: way of saying, I am beyond grateful. I need everybody 647 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,359 Speaker 1: to check out A Strange Loop. Um, you have done 648 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: far too much for the community, the culture, uh and 649 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: the generation. I love you. That was sweet, Michael ar Jackson. 650 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: Thank you. I've been told A Strange Loop is arguably 651 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: one of the most important plays for our culture. And 652 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: by our culture, I mean everyone's culture, not just black folks, 653 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: not just escape folks, but just everyone in general. And 654 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: when you're able to write a piece that affects so 655 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: many souls from so many different backgrounds and and literally 656 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: change people's opinions about who you are and what a 657 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: lifestyle is, you've done something amazing. You've done something great, 658 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 1: and you know he's a true talent. And again I 659 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: encourage you all, myself included. Let's check it out and 660 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,280 Speaker 1: talk about your Strange Loop. Hit me up on social 661 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 1: tell me about your Strange limp. Talk to you all 662 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: next week.