Speaker 1: I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's
Speaker 1: Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show
Speaker 1: about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together,
Speaker 1: we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders
Speaker 1: of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or
Speaker 1: join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast.
Speaker 1: Zimby Owens is the author of Bookends, the force behind
Speaker 1: the new publishing house Zimbi Books, and the host of
Speaker 1: her award winning podcast, Moms don't have time to read books,
Speaker 1: they let start with the web story. You were a
Speaker 1: married Mamma four and fell in love with your tennis coach.
Speaker 1: What happened? My pads crossed with Kyle in a way
Speaker 1: I never expected, nor was I looking for. He was
Speaker 1: filling in for my son's regular tennis coach, and my
Speaker 1: son really didn't like tennis, but I was kind of
Speaker 1: forcing him to do it because he was seven and
Speaker 1: a half at the time and had boundless energy, and
Speaker 1: it was the middle of winter, so what else was
Speaker 1: I going to do? Anyway, Kyle filled in for this
Speaker 1: lesson and after being on the court with my son
Speaker 1: for maybe twenty minutes. He called me onto the court
Speaker 1: and said, you know, your son really doesn't like tennis,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I know. And he's like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe he shouldn't. I don't think he'd be taking tennis lessons.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well I do, and he was like,
Speaker 1: well I don't think he should be taking tennis lessons
Speaker 1: with me. I was like, okay, I'm like, first of all,
Speaker 1: he wasn't even supposed to be the tentnis teacher today,
Speaker 1: Like what what is this? So um, I was sort
Speaker 1: of annoyed by the whole thing. But then he was
Speaker 1: sort of explaining how he had coached people on the
Speaker 1: w A tour and was like recruited you know. It
Speaker 1: was like obviously he was just doing his buddy a favor.
Speaker 1: So then I was singing, well, what maybe this will
Speaker 1: be good for me because I love tennis. I've been
Speaker 1: playing my whole life. And I was like, well, I
Speaker 1: bought all these lessons. Maybe I'll just play. I'll take
Speaker 1: your lessons in the spring or something when I start playing. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we got to know each other playing tennis, and very
Speaker 1: innocently just I was helping him with the girls he
Speaker 1: was dating, and we were getting to know each other,
Speaker 1: and then by the end of the summer, I just
Speaker 1: didn't want those sessions to end. And we did have
Speaker 1: this one moment where I was crying one day coming
Speaker 1: to tennis with an issue with one of my kids,
Speaker 1: and we were just sort of walking down the court
Speaker 1: on the way to the lesson, and I was crying,
Speaker 1: and just like any nice person would do, he kind
Speaker 1: of put his hand on my back and he like
Speaker 1: didn't want to take his hand hand up. He told
Speaker 1: me later, but at the time I was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, no one has been this like, this is
Speaker 1: just so kind and I feel so seen and understood.
Speaker 1: And anyway, it's You'll have to read the book to
Speaker 1: find out the rest. But basically it was un planned
Speaker 1: and I thought my life is going one way and
Speaker 1: it ended up going another. And I know this sounds
Speaker 1: cheesy to say he was my soulmate, but I really
Speaker 1: do feel that are like the energy between the two
Speaker 1: of us, it's really well aligned, and it's being together
Speaker 1: has allowed both of us to pursue our professional passions
Speaker 1: and build businesses and have this home base that allows
Speaker 1: us to be more creative, and it's just this very
Speaker 1: great thing, not to say every moment it's perfect, which
Speaker 1: you know, we've been together now for what, I don't know,
Speaker 1: seven years or something, we've been married for five years.
Speaker 1: We are just you know, we are still just a
Speaker 1: married people with stresses of family and doug and whatever.
Speaker 1: So it's you know, nothing is perfection, but we do
Speaker 1: have this just amazing connection Zimby. I would imagine at
Speaker 1: the time, even moms who weren't gossipy, we're probably in
Speaker 1: some ways jealous that here was his mom, seemingly just
Speaker 1: like them, who had taken a leap and been briefed
Speaker 1: and pursued love at a time when as moms we're
Speaker 1: constantly told it has to be about the kids and
Speaker 1: sacrificing and for other people, and it can't be about ourselves.
Speaker 1: So what was it in you that created that bravery,
Speaker 1: that said, you know, I know for a short period
Speaker 1: of time, I am going to hurt people, but long
Speaker 1: term it's better for everyone. One piece I think is
Speaker 1: having gone through a lot of loss at a young
Speaker 1: age or young ish. I was in my twenties when
Speaker 1: I lost my best friend at nine eleven, and she
Speaker 1: had been my roommate for many, many years, and and
Speaker 1: she just disappeared into thin air. That day, she worked
Speaker 1: on the floor that the first Tower had, so we
Speaker 1: assume that's where she was, but who knows. I learned
Speaker 1: in that instant that nothing on this earth is permittent,
Speaker 1: and that all of us, from one minute to the next,
Speaker 1: it could be over and we only get to do
Speaker 1: this once. You know. My dad has this whole motto
Speaker 1: of life's too short to be miserable. You know, that's
Speaker 1: how he lives his life. And I really feel like
Speaker 1: I got to a point where I was like, I
Speaker 1: only get to live once, and I can't go down
Speaker 1: this path really anymore, and I have to do something.
Speaker 1: There was this moment which I read about in the book,
Speaker 1: where I had this real turning point. I was just
Speaker 1: sitting on the side of the road sobbing after Kyle
Speaker 1: like sent me this nice song and um and the
Speaker 1: song basically was saying to me like I love you,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you go type of thing like where never,
Speaker 1: this is never going to happen. And I just was like,
Speaker 1: how how can I do this? And I was just
Speaker 1: so and I felt so trapped and so and Ultimately,
Speaker 1: I just decided like I just couldn't go on the
Speaker 1: way life had been rolling out for me, and so
Speaker 1: I did it. And of course I'm lucky and that
Speaker 1: I had the resources, I had support of my family
Speaker 1: and financial wherewithal to be able to do this and
Speaker 1: make this decision, which I know many women do not,
Speaker 1: and I'm aware of that, and I feel very lucky
Speaker 1: that I was in that position. And I don't take
Speaker 1: it for granted for a second, but ultimately, true love
Speaker 1: like this, and you know, how do you how do
Speaker 1: you just say no because it's I don't know. I
Speaker 1: just felt like it was a gift from God and
Speaker 1: I couldn't turn it down. Do you think most people
Speaker 1: marry for that idea of true love or do you
Speaker 1: think it's different and our culture today, I think that
Speaker 1: people marry young and that even if you're thirty or
Speaker 1: thirty two, but like it's young, there's so much change ahead,
Speaker 1: there's so much life, and it's almost a miracle. I
Speaker 1: have friends I was just talking to you last night
Speaker 1: who have been married for twenty years and I was
Speaker 1: just looking them like, how, like that's amazing to me.
Speaker 1: That Also my background, my parents are divorced. My grandparents
Speaker 1: are divorced. Everyone's very, very happy with their second husband's
Speaker 1: Everyone has very nice relationships with everybody. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's fine. It's just like, how are you doing that?
Speaker 1: How are you keeping it interesting? How are you? Although
Speaker 1: then I say that to my to Kyle, and he's like, well,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, We're not gonna marry in twenty years.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, of course we are. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: just joking. But I do think that we change as
Speaker 1: we get older so much. I am completely a different
Speaker 1: person than I was my d n a. Everything has
Speaker 1: shifted and as things happen to me and to the world,
Speaker 1: and it's hard to match. Right If you're looking for
Speaker 1: this perfect puzzle piece, you might have one at the time,
Speaker 1: but then if your shape changes, then the other shape
Speaker 1: is not going to fit in perfectly anymore. And it's
Speaker 1: not their fault. It's you growing, expanding, going in a
Speaker 1: different direction. So do I think people marry for the
Speaker 1: right reasons? I think yes, not everybody, but I think
Speaker 1: there's something so hopeful. I love weddings. I I love
Speaker 1: that moment of excitement and seeing the families all excited
Speaker 1: and the love and all that. I feel like there is,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of hope. I don't think most people
Speaker 1: go into that day of their lives being like, all right, fine,
Speaker 1: So I believe at the time, and I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of things happen to people that are that
Speaker 1: are not in their controls, things they couldn't have seen
Speaker 1: coming that either. You know, it's like a it's like
Speaker 1: a rocky boat at sea. You're it can sometimes throw
Speaker 1: people together and on side of the boat even closer,
Speaker 1: but it could also split them up. And it's not
Speaker 1: their fault. It's not because they weren't trying to hold on.
Speaker 1: It's funny. I agree with a lot of what you said,
Speaker 1: but I don't agree with the part about age because
Speaker 1: I know some people that you know are incredible couples
Speaker 1: who are college sweethearts, and then I know other people who,
Speaker 1: let's say, use their age in the other way and said,
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm thirty nine, I have to marry the
Speaker 1: first available person, like it was musical chairs. So I
Speaker 1: think many people don't have that role model of marrying
Speaker 1: for passion and love. And in many ways, by making
Speaker 1: sure this book got published, that Bookends was out there
Speaker 1: in the world. You've become that role model. I imagine
Speaker 1: you've received lots of letters from people who have been
Speaker 1: inspired by your story to make their own changes. I've
Speaker 1: gotten a lot of letters saying I've inspired people a lot.
Speaker 1: Many of them have to do with books they're writing.
Speaker 1: You've inspired me to keep going with that. But people
Speaker 1: are relating to all different parts of the book, and
Speaker 1: that pieces, yes, definitely one of them. Every time I
Speaker 1: thought about giving up on this book, I kept going
Speaker 1: back to this moment where I was at this lovely
Speaker 1: resort and there was a marshmallow making s'mores fest around
Speaker 1: the campfire type thing, and I of course ran right
Speaker 1: over because I love smores. So I was like the
Speaker 1: only grown up with Kyle who did not have a
Speaker 1: kid with them around this campfire. And there was this
Speaker 1: bedraggled mom next to me who and Kyle and I
Speaker 1: that was our first trip. We've only been together, I
Speaker 1: don't know, a couple of months, and we were like
Speaker 1: all cuddly and you know, everything was perfect, and I
Speaker 1: could see her just looking at us, you know, like
Speaker 1: just staring at us as like her not very nice
Speaker 1: husband was like ignoring the kids, and they were like
Speaker 1: wanting to play in the fire and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And after a few minutes, she just looked at me
Speaker 1: and sighed, and she's like, what I wouldn't give to
Speaker 1: have that for just one minute. And I was like,
Speaker 1: but you don't understand, like we've only we just got
Speaker 1: to get like I have four kids at home, like
Speaker 1: you know, so um, I don't know, just that sense
Speaker 1: of you know. I could just see it in her eyes,
Speaker 1: feeling so discouraged, and she just felt so, I don't know.
Speaker 1: If we only get to do this once, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And so if I can inspire anybody to find something,
Speaker 1: even if you can't wholesale up end your life, if
Speaker 1: there's some piece of yourself you can reclaim somehow, if
Speaker 1: it's professional or personal or anything that can help you
Speaker 1: feel more grounded and more you. And if I can
Speaker 1: play a role in inspiring any of that, not to
Speaker 1: say I'm trying to break up anybody's marriage or whatever,
Speaker 1: but then I'll be happy about that. And now a
Speaker 1: quick break. So take us on the journey of how
Speaker 1: you got your book published. When Stacy died on nine eleven,
Speaker 1: I had been in business school for two weeks and
Speaker 1: I had gone to business school because even though I
Speaker 1: had always wanted to be a writer, I could never
Speaker 1: quite see the direct path, which I now know almost
Speaker 1: every writer says the same thing to being a writer.
Speaker 1: Right out of school, and I went into marketing and
Speaker 1: advertising and brand management, and I was really interested and
Speaker 1: I am interested in brands and the relationships people formed
Speaker 1: with brands, and so I went to school to pursue
Speaker 1: that and to continue with marketing. And also, I've always
Speaker 1: been really entrepreneurial and had an idea for a business,
Speaker 1: which I have like every day, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: go pursue that. So um I was at business school,
Speaker 1: and I realized very quickly that as passionate as I
Speaker 1: was about reading and writing in that whole world, there
Speaker 1: were people who were just as passionate about marketing. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm doing marketing as like a stop gap while until
Speaker 1: I can do what I really want to do, Whereas
Speaker 1: you know, Jenny and row One was like, I've always
Speaker 1: wanted to do marketing. This is like amazing, Like okay,
Speaker 1: you should do marketing. Then, so I learned that. And
Speaker 1: I also had this moment where I was like, if
Speaker 1: Stacy died at her desk, and I'm going to die
Speaker 1: at my desk, and then I better be bringing my
Speaker 1: ool self. I cannot just dial it in. She had
Speaker 1: taken a job to help pat her business school applications
Speaker 1: and had only been added a couple of months and
Speaker 1: that was it. And I'm like, I just can't do this.
Speaker 1: I can't sit here and come up with ways to
Speaker 1: sell peppers from cookies anymore. So I decided to write
Speaker 1: a book. I decided to take a year off, and
Speaker 1: I had lost stacy. But then, as I write about
Speaker 1: in the book for their close people to me and
Speaker 1: had just really had a time of it, and I,
Speaker 1: much as much for my own sanity as for anything else,
Speaker 1: decided to take a year off and write a book
Speaker 1: about it. I ended up writing four books, like in
Speaker 1: close succession, four drafts of the same book. First memoir,
Speaker 1: then novel, memoir, novel, And I tried to sell my
Speaker 1: story as a novel because at that time I wasn't
Speaker 1: comfortable and actually I'm kind of glad about this um
Speaker 1: selling it as my own story and all the people
Speaker 1: involved and everything, and it didn't sell. And I mean,
Speaker 1: while I had graduated and told everybody in the world
Speaker 1: I was going to write a book, and it never
Speaker 1: occurred to me that nobody would buy my book. Like
Speaker 1: I just thought, if I could just do this enough,
Speaker 1: or I could rewrite it enough time, someone will buy
Speaker 1: this book. And I, you know, in retrospect, I had
Speaker 1: only sent it to like six publishers, and if it
Speaker 1: were today and you could like easily attach and send
Speaker 1: as much as you wanted, maybe there But at the
Speaker 1: time people said that it was too soon to have
Speaker 1: a novel about nine eleven. Anyway, fast forward, I did
Speaker 1: end up ghost writing a book after that, But then
Speaker 1: I ended up having kids, and I had started with twins,
Speaker 1: and I stayed home for eleven years and did not
Speaker 1: try to write another book for a long time. When
Speaker 1: I got divorced and finally had time to myself and
Speaker 1: remembered what it was like to you know, have a
Speaker 1: weekend without a million birthday parties and and all that,
Speaker 1: I went back to writing, and I wanted to. I
Speaker 1: start writing a lot of parenting essays and I wanted
Speaker 1: to try to sell those as a book, but I
Speaker 1: had no platform, which is part of the reason why
Speaker 1: I started Moms don't have time to read books. My podcast,
Speaker 1: which I come out with every Day, which has not
Speaker 1: become really successful, and that's amazing. I wanted to do that,
Speaker 1: but I talked to a few agents. They didn't think
Speaker 1: that would sell. Then I put that aside. Then I
Speaker 1: spoke to another agent and I said, well, actually, what
Speaker 1: I really want to write is what it's like to
Speaker 1: fall in love again at forty and I want to
Speaker 1: call that forty love and write my whole like love story.
Speaker 1: And she was like, that sounds amazing. So I wrote
Speaker 1: that whole book. And then I was like, I can't
Speaker 1: sell this book. This is so private and I can't
Speaker 1: only write the love story without the right context here,
Speaker 1: and and then I showed um that I wrote it
Speaker 1: as a novel, and then I and then I showed
Speaker 1: a book coach and she was like, you're not even
Speaker 1: telling your whole life, Like you can't just have a
Speaker 1: memoir and lead out giant things even like your family
Speaker 1: history and all that stuff. So then I put all
Speaker 1: those aside, and that was more books i'd written and
Speaker 1: decided to try to I was like, I can't just
Speaker 1: keep writing these books. Maybe I need somebody at the
Speaker 1: publishing house to help me. So I was like, I'll
Speaker 1: try to sell it on proposal. So then I did
Speaker 1: that twice and that didn't sell. I wanted to sell
Speaker 1: a book called Happy Sad, Happy Sad, and then this
Speaker 1: whole other like time based book, and it was mostly
Speaker 1: to try to find a way to tell link all
Speaker 1: these stories that I and I hadn't found like a
Speaker 1: good packaging device for it until I came up with
Speaker 1: this books related piece and decided to link all my
Speaker 1: stories through books. And I was like, I know this
Speaker 1: is going to sell it, It's going to sell and
Speaker 1: then and then I really, you know, my confidence wayne
Speaker 1: as I got rejections for that, but anyway, I'll just
Speaker 1: say it's sold. And I did end up with the
Speaker 1: perfect editor for me, named Carmen Johnson. She did help
Speaker 1: me figure out the best way. I mean, I could
Speaker 1: tell my story a million ways. I could write a
Speaker 1: book about you know, this pair of reading glasses, like
Speaker 1: I can write about anything. I just needed some direction
Speaker 1: and she helped me and and I did it, and
Speaker 1: then that became book Ends. So that was a long
Speaker 1: way of saying it was not easy. And I would
Speaker 1: show up to my podcast after getting a rejection or
Speaker 1: realizing a certain proposal would not become a book and
Speaker 1: just that they're being like why can I not do this?
Speaker 1: Like why does it seem so easy? For every day
Speaker 1: I get pitched like a basilion books? How did they
Speaker 1: all sell their books? What is wrong with me? Why
Speaker 1: can I not do this? And I never really worried,
Speaker 1: like I feel like I'm a good writer, and I
Speaker 1: don't often say good things about myself, but I feel
Speaker 1: confident that, like I know what word comes after the
Speaker 1: next word, and I'm not some sort of literary writer,
Speaker 1: but I can express my feelings through words. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I can do this, like I just need
Speaker 1: the opportunity. So yes, it was a long road. How
Speaker 1: did you come to terms with dealing with the constant knows?
Speaker 1: You know? Not? Well? I remember this one trip I
Speaker 1: went to London because I had won something called a
Speaker 1: Lovey Award for my podcast, and I traveled there to
Speaker 1: go to the ward ceremony and it was very exciting.
Speaker 1: I got a fancy dress and like this whole thing.
Speaker 1: But while I was there, I got like the final
Speaker 1: no for this one proposal, and I got it like
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night because of London timing
Speaker 1: and whatever, and I just sat in the bathroom, crying
Speaker 1: like because what I really want. I'm like, yeah, it's nice,
Speaker 1: I got this word, but I really wanted was the
Speaker 1: book deal? Right? And then I would just like wait
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I was like, I have to
Speaker 1: get this out. I would wallow. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: There was a little wallowing involved and perhaps some extra
Speaker 1: food and you know, but you know, Kyle was there
Speaker 1: and wouldn't let me quit. You know, it's like, you're
Speaker 1: gonna get this, so you're gonna find your way. It's
Speaker 1: you know, don't give up. And and so I would
Speaker 1: let time pass and then I would just try again,
Speaker 1: try another way. And you know, it's like if I
Speaker 1: had a whole thing of keys, like of a janitor
Speaker 1: or something. You know, it's like I kept being like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull out another key. Let me try another
Speaker 1: way to get into this story. And so I'm very
Speaker 1: appreciative to him, and and also just this nagging feeling
Speaker 1: like it is my purpose to put this out there.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. It sounds like very high and mighty,
Speaker 1: but I I have just felt like this absolute compulsion
Speaker 1: to get the story out there. Has this book put
Speaker 1: more pressure on your relationship with Kyle. No, I don't
Speaker 1: feel that way. I mean I would say to anyone like,
Speaker 1: we are a regular couple now, like I just said
Speaker 1: to you. I mean, I don't make any false claims
Speaker 1: that there is perfection in any relationship. But I do
Speaker 1: feel like we are very well suited and that we
Speaker 1: were meant to be together. That said, you know, we
Speaker 1: tried to adopt a puppy last week and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna just like fill us. Do you know,
Speaker 1: like when you're not going to survive this where it's
Speaker 1: like four thirty in the morning and I'm like, come downstairs.
Speaker 1: The puppy won't stop biting my legs, you know. So
Speaker 1: um uh. We still have like every couple has stuff,
Speaker 1: and it is stressful. I have four kids and X
Speaker 1: has been a dog life, two big jobs. I mean,
Speaker 1: there is stuff, so there's always stuff, but we always
Speaker 1: make up and we're quick to apologize. I think there's
Speaker 1: so many ways to quote unquote argue or fight or
Speaker 1: whatever where it doesn't have to be knockdown drag. How
Speaker 1: do you know, emotional firestorm. I mean I used to
Speaker 1: have a hard time apologizing sometimes and now I'm always
Speaker 1: like if he's like, you know, I really don't appreciate that.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. You left to go to
Speaker 1: the camp drop off without me when I was waiting,
Speaker 1: and instead of being like, well, you know, I might
Speaker 1: start out with them, but then I quickly like, you
Speaker 1: know what, You're right, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I
Speaker 1: am sorry. And he is also good at explaining why
Speaker 1: it hurt his feelings or so it takes two, but
Speaker 1: he is good at explaining, and I understand once he explains,
Speaker 1: and then we move on. So I think the rebound
Speaker 1: from whatever conflict is also really important and and all that.
Speaker 1: In your book, you're forthcoming about the fact that your
Speaker 1: father started Blackstone Group and what it was like to
Speaker 1: be the daughter of someone so successful. In full disclosure,
Speaker 1: I knew of you because of your podcast. The person
Speaker 1: who introduced us never even mentioned you know, your family,
Speaker 1: and I don't even know that I knew about your
Speaker 1: dad until I read your book. I think it's a
Speaker 1: testament to you that you've built your own, very independent
Speaker 1: career from him. Yeah, I was really nervous about writing
Speaker 1: all of this. There were things in there that I
Speaker 1: have kind of been hiding forever and was happy. I
Speaker 1: never wanted someone to look at me and make judgments
Speaker 1: without knowing me. My whole family, including my dad. By
Speaker 1: the way, we're very down to earth even though our lives,
Speaker 1: you know, because we've been the beneficiaries of all of
Speaker 1: this luck and hard work and whatever. You know, I
Speaker 1: think that's good. I don't usually. I am super proud
Speaker 1: of my dad, very very very deeply proud, and he
Speaker 1: has shown me what it's like. I've gotten to be
Speaker 1: there while he's formed this business, gone through all of
Speaker 1: his Brazilian setbacks, which he writes about it in his
Speaker 1: own book called What It Takes, And you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't a straight path for him either, and he's kept
Speaker 1: going and I've learned so much from him and the
Speaker 1: way he runs his business and his complete um integrity
Speaker 1: in the way he works, in honesty and all of that.
Speaker 1: Like he's a great role model for me. So I'm
Speaker 1: not ashamed. I'm very very proud, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it's relevant in the every day And you know, people
Speaker 1: might jump to conclusions that are not accurate about me
Speaker 1: or who I am, or my values or anything based
Speaker 1: on that. I know there's so much anti wealth sentiment
Speaker 1: right now, And I know I am a beneficiary of this,
Speaker 1: and I don't take it lightly. I do a lot
Speaker 1: to give back. I am trying to give back and
Speaker 1: make a difference in everything I do. But I certainly
Speaker 1: I don't want to like flaunt it. I'm just not
Speaker 1: one of those people. You were on the show and
Speaker 1: you're a writer because of the path you've carved for yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I have not asked him for a single
Speaker 1: for help getting a single guest, like I made that decision.
Speaker 1: He knows everyone in the world, you know. But that's
Speaker 1: not how I've built this at all. Um. But I
Speaker 1: will say I only started this four years ago and
Speaker 1: it's been the wildest ride imaginable. But I only started
Speaker 1: my podcast in March April, and now it's two and
Speaker 1: so much has changed. So even before then, I still
Speaker 1: when I was a stay at home mom, I still
Speaker 1: many people didn't know that, or you know, as I
Speaker 1: showed up in sweatpants or something at Little Maestros or whatever.
Speaker 1: So again, I'm not ashamed. I'm super proud, but it's
Speaker 1: just not something I lead with because of all of
Speaker 1: the assumptions that can be made about me that are
Speaker 1: totally false. When you did, you know, kind of come
Speaker 1: back with full force. Was it hard to take those
Speaker 1: initial steps and setting up companies and and moving those
Speaker 1: forwards so quickly, because as you mentioned, it has been
Speaker 1: a wild ride, like you have done a lot in
Speaker 1: a short period of time. Start off with just some
Speaker 1: essays that I would write on the weekends and I
Speaker 1: would post it on Medium and then it would kind
Speaker 1: of be done, or I would post it to some site.
Speaker 1: Then it started with the podcast, and that was one
Speaker 1: episode a week, which I felt like was a lot.
Speaker 1: And I remember trying to pitch my show to a
Speaker 1: network and being like they were like, you'd have to
Speaker 1: go to twice a week, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't think I can do that, Like that's just
Speaker 1: too much work. And I know Sam and I have
Speaker 1: had long talks about the fact that why do I
Speaker 1: feel like I need to do this seven days a week.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't the consumer be fine with just once or twice
Speaker 1: a week? Might those episodes be more listened to? And
Speaker 1: all those things are probably right, And ultimately I feel like,
Speaker 1: I obviously just want to keep doing this seven days
Speaker 1: a week, or I would stop. So I obviously just
Speaker 1: want to keep doing it this way. It's a lot,
Speaker 1: but now it's okay, Now it's really a lot. Now
Speaker 1: it's a It's funny because I went from like once
Speaker 1: a week reading doing this these emails, um and all
Speaker 1: this to like Kyle being saying, you know, it might
Speaker 1: be easier if you weren't doing all of your work
Speaker 1: all day long on the go. You might actually need
Speaker 1: to sit in one place, and might you might find
Speaker 1: it more efficient than than the way you're doing things
Speaker 1: where you're constantly at drop off or pick up or
Speaker 1: you know, doing things on your phone or um. It
Speaker 1: wasn't until I started the publishing business that it kind
Speaker 1: of sunk me. Um, when I started that last year.
Speaker 1: Now I actually have to like sit at a desk
Speaker 1: all day long. And I never really wanted that. I
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to jump up. And I still
Speaker 1: there are things I won't give up. I always pick
Speaker 1: up my kids in the afternoon, so I won't schedule
Speaker 1: anything from you know, two thirty until four or something,
Speaker 1: so I can pick them up and bring them home
Speaker 1: and spend a lot of time of them. And then
Speaker 1: even in the afternoons, I try so hard not to
Speaker 1: schedule anything if I can avoid it, except for like
Speaker 1: a call or emails or something. But now it's gotten
Speaker 1: to be more. I mean, now there's almost an inhuman
Speaker 1: amount of stuff I'm supposed to be doing every week,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying my best, but some days I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. And then when one little
Speaker 1: thing goes wrong, right, like one other thing, maybe a
Speaker 1: child needs to change school, like my daughter just had
Speaker 1: foot surgery, you know, like it's so precariously balanced that
Speaker 1: the littlest extra thing like knocks me down, like knocks
Speaker 1: everything down like a house of cards. And then I'm like,
Speaker 1: how I can't do this. I can manage my life.
Speaker 1: And then I go crazy and I cry and you know,
Speaker 1: and then that thing resolves and I kind of pick up,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, all right, I'm going to try to
Speaker 1: balance on this like tiny little ledge again until I
Speaker 1: get knocked off again. Should I scale back? I absolutely should?
Speaker 1: Am I going to? I am not? So I just
Speaker 1: have to live with that. And I've also realized so
Speaker 1: many things about myself now that I'm doing this work
Speaker 1: full time and all this stuff, like I actually really
Speaker 1: like being overwhelmed and stressed and busy and having lots
Speaker 1: of things going on at the same time, Like even
Speaker 1: the even the weeks were like with the book writing
Speaker 1: that I had to cancel things and only focus on
Speaker 1: the manuscript. That was an interesting challenge. Um I deleted
Speaker 1: thirty thousand words like close to the end of the
Speaker 1: book and had to sew it all back together. It
Speaker 1: was interesting. But I was like, I remember posting. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I just spent nine hours in my manuscript,
Speaker 1: you know, and all these authors show back like yep,
Speaker 1: that's that's the life of an author, you know that.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, I can't. I can't do that.
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't sit and spend nine hours and
Speaker 1: a manuscript every day, like I write books, but I
Speaker 1: need all that stuff. I don't know why. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it says about me, you know. Then I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: of course I ended up having four kids. I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's something about the multi like inputs. Well all said
Speaker 1: to me when I read The Dog Story. So so
Speaker 1: I just want to share with our listeners about the
Speaker 1: Dog Story. So, as Zimby mentioned, I've spent time with
Speaker 1: her trying to help Zimby reduce her workload because it
Speaker 1: is truly inhuman how much she does. So here's what
Speaker 1: she does. She is a publishing house with legit amazing authors.
Speaker 1: She has two podcast us of her own and even
Speaker 1: a network of other people's podcasts. She has four children,
Speaker 1: a newish husband, a dog, and a new career as
Speaker 1: an author. Your new book and you just announced a
Speaker 1: novel that you and and our content site, mom Moms
Speaker 1: Don't Have Time Too, is our new content and community site.
Speaker 1: So it used to be Moms and have Time to write,
Speaker 1: but now we've just relaunched that for personal essays and
Speaker 1: book reviews and like we're trying to do a whole
Speaker 1: lifestyle site. So Amy Zimby was on Good Morning America
Speaker 1: last week to talk about her book you know every
Speaker 1: author's dream, and this segment before her was a dog
Speaker 1: rescue segment about six puppies who needed a home, and
Speaker 1: guess what happened next. Zimby face times Kyle from Good
Speaker 1: Morning America to get his blessing to adopt one of
Speaker 1: the puppies. Because of course that's what every author who's
Speaker 1: about to go on book toward needs, like a like
Speaker 1: a hole in their head. So they start this segment
Speaker 1: not by announcing Zimby's new book, but announcing that she
Speaker 1: is the proud owner of a new puppy. And I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I guess I can't change my mind now.
Speaker 1: I mean I said that live jokingly, like huh huh.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, and that was not how
Speaker 1: I was planning on telling my kids. They didn't tell
Speaker 1: me they were going to do that. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, kids, you know, what do
Speaker 1: you think you know? Because I was going to go
Speaker 1: home and explain it. I didn't even think it through.
Speaker 1: I didn't have time to think it through. It was
Speaker 1: like a two minute thing, and it was a really
Speaker 1: cute puppy, and I, I don't know, I just acted impulsively,
Speaker 1: and I was like, my whole thing is like saying yes,
Speaker 1: and then I'll figure it out, you know, I'll just
Speaker 1: I'll figure it out. It'll be okay. But this was
Speaker 1: like not okay, and I feel terrible about it. And
Speaker 1: now the dog is with the trainer for a couple
Speaker 1: of months and and then we'll figure it out then
Speaker 1: what what to do. But obviously that didn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: I knew in the back of my mind, not even
Speaker 1: the back. I knew in the front of my mind
Speaker 1: that didn't make any sense and that I was doing
Speaker 1: it anyway. And like my brother was just like I
Speaker 1: don't understand. You have this like wish you just try
Speaker 1: to make your life too complicated, Like you make these
Speaker 1: decisions which are completely untenable, Like you just why do
Speaker 1: you do that? There's a part of it I relate to.
Speaker 1: You do thrive in a little bit of chaos. You
Speaker 1: love to have a lot going on. I mean, you
Speaker 1: make me look lazy, which is nearly impossible to do well.
Speaker 1: One thing. I think that's really important to note here.
Speaker 1: And SOB, I love that you say like you thrive
Speaker 1: in chaos, that you like having a million different things
Speaker 1: going on, because I feel like in society, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I said she thrives in chaos. It Bey
Speaker 1: would not say that. I don't think chaos. It's just
Speaker 1: a lot, a lot of stuff, a lot going on,
Speaker 1: because I feel often that in society we like applaud
Speaker 1: men who love to have a million things going on,
Speaker 1: but we look at them myopically like it's all business related,
Speaker 1: and like with women, we expect something different. But I too,
Speaker 1: like Sam, like you, like I like to have a
Speaker 1: lot going on too, I get bored otherwise, like I
Speaker 1: like to have a million I have Like I said,
Speaker 1: I have four children like you. Sam's got three. We
Speaker 1: have companies, we have you know, all these things going on,
Speaker 1: and it seems like I don't think people expect women
Speaker 1: to embrace that. But I think it's awesome if that's
Speaker 1: who you are. I don't think I totally realized it
Speaker 1: until you know, But then I had this one person
Speaker 1: called me an adrenaline junkie that it's like not a
Speaker 1: good thing that I thrive on that adrenaline that comes
Speaker 1: when you're like meeting a deadline or racing around. But
Speaker 1: instead of bungee jumping, you are starting book imprints, which
Speaker 1: is great. Yeah, I mean I don't know if it's great.
Speaker 1: It is what it is. And you know what you're
Speaker 1: saying Sam about I do well in a little bit
Speaker 1: of chaos, like because when it gets too much, I'm
Speaker 1: like flat on my back, like I can't handle it.
Speaker 1: When it goes up that nth degree, then I just can't.
Speaker 1: And now a quick break, how do you think about
Speaker 1: your business goals? Do you want your publishing imprint to
Speaker 1: be the next HarperCollins. What are your goals? I do
Speaker 1: not want it to be the next HarperCollins. I do
Speaker 1: want to keep it small. I don't want to make
Speaker 1: that many books. I would like to just prove that
Speaker 1: it can be done differently. I'd like to be an
Speaker 1: example of a way that authors can be taken better
Speaker 1: care of. And I'd like other people to adopt some
Speaker 1: of the things that we're doing. If something works, I'd
Speaker 1: like it to be I'd like to just shift it
Speaker 1: for people if I can, If I can be a
Speaker 1: model of it. Um, Michael would be that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even I mean, I do want to keep doing it.
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying, but that other people could
Speaker 1: do it, and that everyone would have authors meet other
Speaker 1: authors in the imprint like why not? I love that.
Speaker 1: Can you share with us a few of the things
Speaker 1: you're hoping to change? Sure? One thing is authors are
Speaker 1: so supportive of each other. It's a unique thing. I
Speaker 1: really believe in this community, in this industry. Nowhere else
Speaker 1: like there weren't people in brand management who were like, okay,
Speaker 1: like let's I'm here to support you. It. Maybe one
Speaker 1: or two women, but it's not as an industry wide.
Speaker 1: I feel there's very little competition. There's laboration across the
Speaker 1: board so much so one of the things I'm trying
Speaker 1: to do is is create more of a sense of
Speaker 1: community among the authors and having them continue to lift
Speaker 1: each other up. So we have profit sharing among all
Speaker 1: of our authors and our team, so sevent center net
Speaker 1: profits go back to the authors and the team of
Speaker 1: that given year. In that class of authors we are
Speaker 1: uh we have seven hundred plus and we're capping it
Speaker 1: now at book ambassadors all over the country and they're
Speaker 1: working with their local bookstores and having events and spreading
Speaker 1: the word because word of mouth I think is the
Speaker 1: most effective way to spread the news about a book.
Speaker 1: We have an Indie Bookseller Advisory Board, so we're in
Speaker 1: touch with them and seeing what they want how we
Speaker 1: can work most effectively. We have a best selling Women
Speaker 1: Author Advisory Board, and they help us out and help
Speaker 1: the authors out. We are partnering with brands and are
Speaker 1: excited to expand that a lot and have different brand
Speaker 1: partners for some of our first books lined up. We
Speaker 1: have just the way we structure the time. We have
Speaker 1: people avail able to talk about social media, like we
Speaker 1: basically invest in the authors and not in the books,
Speaker 1: so we'll help an author like what should your website
Speaker 1: look like? What how is your social media? Like, let's
Speaker 1: take stock of your whole you know, framework, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna help you. You know, we can't always make you
Speaker 1: a new website, but we can say like, well, here
Speaker 1: are something we suggest or what do you think about this?
Speaker 1: Or whatever? And we're doing twelve books a year because
Speaker 1: and we have other stuff that I'm not like announcing
Speaker 1: that I think is going to be really cool as
Speaker 1: we're launching it, but I don't, you know, I can't.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna save a few things, but we're we've recently
Speaker 1: decided we're gonna launch paperback and hard cover at the
Speaker 1: same time, so uh, people readers can get the format
Speaker 1: that they want. I had so many of my friends,
Speaker 1: even like my college friends, be like, well, I always
Speaker 1: wait for the paperback, and I'm like, that's so why,
Speaker 1: Like I also don't think our small, tiny team has
Speaker 1: the bandwidth to have a year where we launched twelve
Speaker 1: titles and then twelve paperbacks Like that's ridiculous and why
Speaker 1: I never know what to do even for my podcast
Speaker 1: when people are like this is out in paperback now,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, Like I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: another episode about it. I'm not gonna like what what
Speaker 1: am I supposed to do with that? I already have
Speaker 1: the book anyway. So we're doing that. Um, and that's
Speaker 1: just one of many decisions. UM, we're trying things. We're
Speaker 1: doing more of a community. We're doing a director consumer
Speaker 1: box where we sell you know, like a subscription box
Speaker 1: model that we're also going to offer so that people
Speaker 1: don't even have to think about it they can just
Speaker 1: get our books each time. And in acquiring books for
Speaker 1: a year, I'm trying to create a year of reading
Speaker 1: the way you would read it. So if this was
Speaker 1: all you read in a year, you wouldn't want to
Speaker 1: go from depressing memoir to depressing memoir, right, You'd need
Speaker 1: I would need like a palate cleanser or something in between. So,
Speaker 1: so we're not only acquiring one specific type of book,
Speaker 1: but all books written by honestly smart, funny, talented, not
Speaker 1: always funny, not always but unique voices of strong women
Speaker 1: who have something to say and I have you know,
Speaker 1: they're all based in the here and now and but
Speaker 1: not like pandemic times like there it's something we can
Speaker 1: relate to. Now, this is not going to be about
Speaker 1: World War two, but it might be a love story
Speaker 1: followed by a thriller or followed but you know, so
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to mix it up. And anytime I
Speaker 1: feel like I want to give up and I have
Speaker 1: those moments, I have moments wort of like call like
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. I'm just like I have
Speaker 1: to do this. I have to do this because there
Speaker 1: there has to be a new way for all these amazing,
Speaker 1: aspiring authors out there, and already the authors who are
Speaker 1: out there who are feeling just so unappreciated by the
Speaker 1: big consolidating houses. And I don't think that's the fault
Speaker 1: of the people who work in publishing. I think they
Speaker 1: all a lot of them have great intentions, but structurally,
Speaker 1: the way the industry is going, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: the for the They don't have the best interests of
Speaker 1: the authors at heart, and books are too important to
Speaker 1: risk this. So that's why I keep going. And I'm
Speaker 1: should we go to the speed round? Yes? What are
Speaker 1: you reading right now? I am actually reading a book
Speaker 1: by Natasha Sizzlow. I think I pronounced that right called
Speaker 1: All signs point to Paris, and it's a memory of love,
Speaker 1: loss and destiny and it is wonderful. How many books
Speaker 1: a week do you read? I don't always finish. I
Speaker 1: probably finish one book a week start to finish. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not true because then I read for acquisition. But
Speaker 1: books from my podcast, I probably read start to finish
Speaker 1: one book a week, but I cover you know, eight
Speaker 1: to ten books a week, so I read at least
Speaker 1: part of eight to ten books for the podcast Who
Speaker 1: Leaves You star Struck? Who Leaves Me star Struck? Basically
Speaker 1: any movie star? What is your dream date? Not leaving
Speaker 1: the house, like just like going to bed at nine o'clock,
Speaker 1: because that's so pathetic watching TV now, that sounds terrible.
Speaker 1: My dream date is I guess having dinner on the
Speaker 1: water in Malibu with like an amazing chocolate chip cookie
Speaker 1: for dessert. Well, lou Burns has been listening to our
Speaker 1: conversation and he joins us at the end of each
Speaker 1: episode with the male perspective. All this talk about books
Speaker 1: and publishing and in business, um got me thinking about, like, like,
Speaker 1: what do you spend your money on, you know, like
Speaker 1: because you're you're obviously making way more money, you're doing
Speaker 1: so much more to help other people make way more money.
Speaker 1: And you've got four kids and a husband, and you've
Speaker 1: got a lot going on. So when you get a
Speaker 1: chance to just like splurge on yourself, what do you
Speaker 1: What do you spend your money on. I'm tempted to
Speaker 1: say I like to buy houses, but now, um, I
Speaker 1: I slurge on travel. I splurge on trips. We travel
Speaker 1: a lot to go back and forth to l A
Speaker 1: and other other things. Um, but for just me, I
Speaker 1: mean I had to get some new clothes from my
Speaker 1: book tour, so uh, but I don't really like buying
Speaker 1: clothes at all. And I was also focused on your
Speaker 1: name to Zimby. I've never heard that name before. Is
Speaker 1: there a story behind it? Um? It's short for Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: And when I was in playgroup as a little girl,
Speaker 1: a friend of mine couldn't pronounce Elizabeth, and so she
Speaker 1: called me Zibbeth and my parents joined it to Zimby.
Speaker 1: Apparently they named me Elizabeth to begin with because my
Speaker 1: dad wanted to call me Betsy because he had never
Speaker 1: met a Bessie who wasn't happy, But then I was born,
Speaker 1: and I guess I didn't look like a Betsy. So
Speaker 1: they went back to Elizabeth, and we're kind of hunting
Speaker 1: around for a different nickname. Meanwhile, I have decided for
Speaker 1: all four of my kids never to do that to them,
Speaker 1: so they all have names that are not nicknameable names.
Speaker 1: Perhaps the most remarkable thing about Zimby is her bravery.
Speaker 1: It's not just that she pursued her passion and uprooted
Speaker 1: her family's life for something she knew would ultimately be
Speaker 1: better for everyone, but very difficult in the short term.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was incredibly brave, but that same bravery
Speaker 1: allowed her to become a force of nature in the
Speaker 1: book world in just a few years. She calls herself
Speaker 1: a formercy at home mom, but really she was always writing.
Speaker 1: She was always working in some way. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's like a really big takeaway, is you know.
Speaker 1: I think before you read Bookends, you might think that
Speaker 1: Zimby wasn't working and she was raising her kids, which
Speaker 1: in and of itself, having four kids is incredibly difficult
Speaker 1: and a lot of work. But she was always doing
Speaker 1: something else. She was never fully outside, and I think
Speaker 1: it's worth noting for a lot of women like you.
Speaker 1: You yourself might say, well I don't have a full
Speaker 1: time job, Well you're still working. If you're doing you
Speaker 1: know a million different things, right, if you're raising money
Speaker 1: for someone, if you're running a school program or whatnot.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a bunch of different ways to keep
Speaker 1: a foot in the door, right at whatever point in
Speaker 1: your life you need that to be the situation. But
Speaker 1: I think the thing about Zimby that's really interesting for
Speaker 1: me is that she is someone who took rejection and
Speaker 1: just kept going. It is so easy to give up
Speaker 1: when you are rejected. I mean, it's the easier thing
Speaker 1: to do because being rejected sucks. And Amy, it was
Speaker 1: a very personal rejection. This was her memoir. Imagine how
Speaker 1: personal that rejection feels. I know, I can't, you know,
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine. It's that's a lot. But she
Speaker 1: just she turned it into magic, right, not only eventually
Speaker 1: writing this incredible book about her story, but then also
Speaker 1: building a platform to disrupt the way that publishing works
Speaker 1: and to tell other people's stories. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: What's her Story with Sam and Amy? We would appreciate
Speaker 1: it if you leave a view wherever you get your podcasts,
Speaker 1: and of course, connect with us on social media at
Speaker 1: What's Her Story podcast. What's Her Story with Sam and
Speaker 1: Amy is powered by my company, The Riveter at The
Speaker 1: Riveter dot c O and Sam's company, park Place Payments
Speaker 1: at park place payments dot com. Thanks to our producer
Speaker 1: Stacy Para and our male perspective, Blue Burns