WEBVTT - Zibby Owens 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.559 Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.400 about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.200 we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.840 of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.880 join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.800 Zimby Owens is the author of Bookends, the force behind 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.800 the new publishing house Zimbi Books, and the host of 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.160 her award winning podcast, Moms don't have time to read books, 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.199 they let start with the web story. You were a 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.040 married Mamma four and fell in love with your tennis coach. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.440 What happened? My pads crossed with Kyle in a way 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:56.120 I never expected, nor was I looking for. He was 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.400 filling in for my son's regular tennis coach, and my 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.360 son really didn't like tennis, but I was kind of 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:03.720 forcing him to do it because he was seven and 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.039 a half at the time and had boundless energy, and 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:07.920 it was the middle of winter, so what else was 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.440 I going to do? Anyway, Kyle filled in for this 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.400 lesson and after being on the court with my son 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.319 for maybe twenty minutes. He called me onto the court 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.400 and said, you know, your son really doesn't like tennis, 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.160 and I was like, yeah, I know. And he's like, well, 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.560 maybe he shouldn't. I don't think he'd be taking tennis lessons. 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.640 And I was like, well I do, and he was like, 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.280 well I don't think he should be taking tennis lessons 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.399 with me. I was like, okay, I'm like, first of all, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.200 he wasn't even supposed to be the tentnis teacher today, 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.240 Like what what is this? So um, I was sort 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.520 of annoyed by the whole thing. But then he was 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.440 sort of explaining how he had coached people on the 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.360 w A tour and was like recruited you know. It 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.840 was like obviously he was just doing his buddy a favor. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.200 So then I was singing, well, what maybe this will 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:53.240 be good for me because I love tennis. I've been 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.000 playing my whole life. And I was like, well, I 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.320 bought all these lessons. Maybe I'll just play. I'll take 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.760 your lessons in the spring or something when I start playing. Anyway, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.560 we got to know each other playing tennis, and very 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.240 innocently just I was helping him with the girls he 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.160 was dating, and we were getting to know each other, 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.399 and then by the end of the summer, I just 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.680 didn't want those sessions to end. And we did have 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.720 this one moment where I was crying one day coming 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.520 to tennis with an issue with one of my kids, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.160 and we were just sort of walking down the court 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.959 on the way to the lesson, and I was crying, 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:27.840 and just like any nice person would do, he kind 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.000 of put his hand on my back and he like 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.079 didn't want to take his hand hand up. He told 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.079 me later, but at the time I was just like, oh, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.080 my gosh, no one has been this like, this is 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:41.240 just so kind and I feel so seen and understood. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.880 And anyway, it's You'll have to read the book to 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:48.200 find out the rest. But basically it was un planned 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.200 and I thought my life is going one way and 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.400 it ended up going another. And I know this sounds 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.640 cheesy to say he was my soulmate, but I really 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.680 do feel that are like the energy between the two 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.680 of us, it's really well aligned, and it's being together 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:07.880 has allowed both of us to pursue our professional passions 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:12.000 and build businesses and have this home base that allows 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.600 us to be more creative, and it's just this very 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.639 great thing, not to say every moment it's perfect, which 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.280 you know, we've been together now for what, I don't know, 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.280 seven years or something, we've been married for five years. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:24.519 We are just you know, we are still just a 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.880 married people with stresses of family and doug and whatever. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.920 So it's you know, nothing is perfection, but we do 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.800 have this just amazing connection Zimby. I would imagine at 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.840 the time, even moms who weren't gossipy, we're probably in 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.040 some ways jealous that here was his mom, seemingly just 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.880 like them, who had taken a leap and been briefed 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.080 and pursued love at a time when as moms we're 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.200 constantly told it has to be about the kids and 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:53.320 sacrificing and for other people, and it can't be about ourselves. 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.480 So what was it in you that created that bravery, 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.640 that said, you know, I know for a short period 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:00.920 of time, I am going to hurt people, but long 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.880 term it's better for everyone. One piece I think is 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.880 having gone through a lot of loss at a young 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.840 age or young ish. I was in my twenties when 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:12.960 I lost my best friend at nine eleven, and she 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.160 had been my roommate for many, many years, and and 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.520 she just disappeared into thin air. That day, she worked 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.400 on the floor that the first Tower had, so we 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.800 assume that's where she was, but who knows. I learned 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.320 in that instant that nothing on this earth is permittent, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.160 and that all of us, from one minute to the next, 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.479 it could be over and we only get to do 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.919 this once. You know. My dad has this whole motto 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.680 of life's too short to be miserable. You know, that's 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.600 how he lives his life. And I really feel like 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.760 I got to a point where I was like, I 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.960 only get to live once, and I can't go down 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.440 this path really anymore, and I have to do something. 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:54.919 There was this moment which I read about in the book, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.359 where I had this real turning point. I was just 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.800 sitting on the side of the road sobbing after Kyle 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.359 like sent me this nice song and um and the 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.200 song basically was saying to me like I love you, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.159 I'm gonna let you go type of thing like where never, 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.360 this is never going to happen. And I just was like, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.040 how how can I do this? And I was just 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.239 so and I felt so trapped and so and Ultimately, 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.479 I just decided like I just couldn't go on the 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.200 way life had been rolling out for me, and so 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.440 I did it. And of course I'm lucky and that 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.279 I had the resources, I had support of my family 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.760 and financial wherewithal to be able to do this and 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.719 make this decision, which I know many women do not, 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.960 and I'm aware of that, and I feel very lucky 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.520 that I was in that position. And I don't take 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.320 it for granted for a second, but ultimately, true love 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.880 like this, and you know, how do you how do 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.800 you just say no because it's I don't know. I 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:54.719 just felt like it was a gift from God and 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:56.760 I couldn't turn it down. Do you think most people 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.040 marry for that idea of true love or do you 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.800 think it's different and our culture today, I think that 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:07.520 people marry young and that even if you're thirty or 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:12.120 thirty two, but like it's young, there's so much change ahead, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.719 there's so much life, and it's almost a miracle. I 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:18.840 have friends I was just talking to you last night 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:20.520 who have been married for twenty years and I was 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.240 just looking them like, how, like that's amazing to me. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.680 That Also my background, my parents are divorced. My grandparents 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.800 are divorced. Everyone's very, very happy with their second husband's 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.680 Everyone has very nice relationships with everybody. I mean, it's 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.520 it's fine. It's just like, how are you doing that? 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.480 How are you keeping it interesting? How are you? Although 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.839 then I say that to my to Kyle, and he's like, well, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.560 what do you mean, We're not gonna marry in twenty years. 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.240 I'm like, well, of course we are. You know, I'm 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.960 just joking. But I do think that we change as 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.640 we get older so much. I am completely a different 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.600 person than I was my d n a. Everything has 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.880 shifted and as things happen to me and to the world, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.720 and it's hard to match. Right If you're looking for 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.440 this perfect puzzle piece, you might have one at the time, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.600 but then if your shape changes, then the other shape 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:14.880 is not going to fit in perfectly anymore. And it's 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:21.000 not their fault. It's you growing, expanding, going in a 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.920 different direction. So do I think people marry for the 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:28.320 right reasons? I think yes, not everybody, but I think 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.240 there's something so hopeful. I love weddings. I I love 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.720 that moment of excitement and seeing the families all excited 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.320 and the love and all that. I feel like there is, 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.320 there's a lot of hope. I don't think most people 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.840 go into that day of their lives being like, all right, fine, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.400 So I believe at the time, and I think that 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.800 a lot of things happen to people that are that 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.280 are not in their controls, things they couldn't have seen 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.080 coming that either. You know, it's like a it's like 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.000 a rocky boat at sea. You're it can sometimes throw 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.160 people together and on side of the boat even closer, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.760 but it could also split them up. And it's not 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.640 their fault. It's not because they weren't trying to hold on. 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.040 It's funny. I agree with a lot of what you said, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.720 but I don't agree with the part about age because 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.160 I know some people that you know are incredible couples 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.840 who are college sweethearts, and then I know other people who, 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.240 let's say, use their age in the other way and said, 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.320 oh no, I'm thirty nine, I have to marry the 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.920 first available person, like it was musical chairs. So I 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.840 think many people don't have that role model of marrying 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.079 for passion and love. And in many ways, by making 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.760 sure this book got published, that Bookends was out there 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.480 in the world. You've become that role model. I imagine 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:43.439 you've received lots of letters from people who have been 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.520 inspired by your story to make their own changes. I've 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.120 gotten a lot of letters saying I've inspired people a lot. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.560 Many of them have to do with books they're writing. 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.760 You've inspired me to keep going with that. But people 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.679 are relating to all different parts of the book, and 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.439 that pieces, yes, definitely one of them. Every time I 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:02.840 thought about giving up on this book, I kept going 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.760 back to this moment where I was at this lovely 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:12.480 resort and there was a marshmallow making s'mores fest around 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.520 the campfire type thing, and I of course ran right 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.520 over because I love smores. So I was like the 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.080 only grown up with Kyle who did not have a 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.640 kid with them around this campfire. And there was this 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.560 bedraggled mom next to me who and Kyle and I 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.599 that was our first trip. We've only been together, I 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.160 don't know, a couple of months, and we were like 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.000 all cuddly and you know, everything was perfect, and I 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.880 could see her just looking at us, you know, like 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.680 just staring at us as like her not very nice 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.360 husband was like ignoring the kids, and they were like 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.360 wanting to play in the fire and all this stuff. 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.280 And after a few minutes, she just looked at me 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.640 and sighed, and she's like, what I wouldn't give to 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.280 have that for just one minute. And I was like, 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.920 but you don't understand, like we've only we just got 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:58.839 to get like I have four kids at home, like 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.560 you know, so um, I don't know, just that sense 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.520 of you know. I could just see it in her eyes, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:11.120 feeling so discouraged, and she just felt so, I don't know. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.360 If we only get to do this once, I don't know. 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.199 And so if I can inspire anybody to find something, 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.160 even if you can't wholesale up end your life, if 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:24.680 there's some piece of yourself you can reclaim somehow, if 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:30.640 it's professional or personal or anything that can help you 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.720 feel more grounded and more you. And if I can 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:35.959 play a role in inspiring any of that, not to 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.520 say I'm trying to break up anybody's marriage or whatever, 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:42.480 but then I'll be happy about that. And now a 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.760 quick break. So take us on the journey of how 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.319 you got your book published. When Stacy died on nine eleven, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.360 I had been in business school for two weeks and 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.599 I had gone to business school because even though I 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.640 had always wanted to be a writer, I could never 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.680 quite see the direct path, which I now know almost 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.200 every writer says the same thing to being a writer. 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.720 Right out of school, and I went into marketing and 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.280 advertising and brand management, and I was really interested and 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.880 I am interested in brands and the relationships people formed 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:17.240 with brands, and so I went to school to pursue 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.360 that and to continue with marketing. And also, I've always 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.960 been really entrepreneurial and had an idea for a business, 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.839 which I have like every day, and I wanted to 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:28.760 go pursue that. So um I was at business school, 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.040 and I realized very quickly that as passionate as I 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.760 was about reading and writing in that whole world, there 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.000 were people who were just as passionate about marketing. I'm like, well, 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.520 I'm doing marketing as like a stop gap while until 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:43.160 I can do what I really want to do, Whereas 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.160 you know, Jenny and row One was like, I've always 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.040 wanted to do marketing. This is like amazing, Like okay, 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.480 you should do marketing. Then, so I learned that. And 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.440 I also had this moment where I was like, if 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.199 Stacy died at her desk, and I'm going to die 0:11:58.240 --> 0:11:59.840 at my desk, and then I better be bringing my 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.120 ool self. I cannot just dial it in. She had 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.199 taken a job to help pat her business school applications 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:07.800 and had only been added a couple of months and 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.800 that was it. And I'm like, I just can't do this. 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.400 I can't sit here and come up with ways to 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.280 sell peppers from cookies anymore. So I decided to write 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:17.880 a book. I decided to take a year off, and 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:19.800 I had lost stacy. But then, as I write about 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.000 in the book for their close people to me and 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.480 had just really had a time of it, and I, 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.800 much as much for my own sanity as for anything else, 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:29.640 decided to take a year off and write a book 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.240 about it. I ended up writing four books, like in 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.520 close succession, four drafts of the same book. First memoir, 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.680 then novel, memoir, novel, And I tried to sell my 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.760 story as a novel because at that time I wasn't 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.840 comfortable and actually I'm kind of glad about this um 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.600 selling it as my own story and all the people 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.240 involved and everything, and it didn't sell. And I mean, 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.240 while I had graduated and told everybody in the world 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.920 I was going to write a book, and it never 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.080 occurred to me that nobody would buy my book. Like 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:58.880 I just thought, if I could just do this enough, 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.920 or I could rewrite it enough time, someone will buy 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.560 this book. And I, you know, in retrospect, I had 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.199 only sent it to like six publishers, and if it 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.360 were today and you could like easily attach and send 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.800 as much as you wanted, maybe there But at the 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.400 time people said that it was too soon to have 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.800 a novel about nine eleven. Anyway, fast forward, I did 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.200 end up ghost writing a book after that, But then 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.400 I ended up having kids, and I had started with twins, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.319 and I stayed home for eleven years and did not 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.559 try to write another book for a long time. When 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.720 I got divorced and finally had time to myself and 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.720 remembered what it was like to you know, have a 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.839 weekend without a million birthday parties and and all that, 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.400 I went back to writing, and I wanted to. I 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.240 start writing a lot of parenting essays and I wanted 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.800 to try to sell those as a book, but I 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:47.760 had no platform, which is part of the reason why 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.160 I started Moms don't have time to read books. My podcast, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:51.880 which I come out with every Day, which has not 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.800 become really successful, and that's amazing. I wanted to do that, 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.240 but I talked to a few agents. They didn't think 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.360 that would sell. Then I put that aside. Then I 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:01.920 spoke to another agent and I said, well, actually, what 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.439 I really want to write is what it's like to 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.360 fall in love again at forty and I want to 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.760 call that forty love and write my whole like love story. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.280 And she was like, that sounds amazing. So I wrote 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.360 that whole book. And then I was like, I can't 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.160 sell this book. This is so private and I can't 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.720 only write the love story without the right context here, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.840 and and then I showed um that I wrote it 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.280 as a novel, and then I and then I showed 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.840 a book coach and she was like, you're not even 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:31.840 telling your whole life, Like you can't just have a 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.640 memoir and lead out giant things even like your family 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.040 history and all that stuff. So then I put all 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.080 those aside, and that was more books i'd written and 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:42.960 decided to try to I was like, I can't just 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.880 keep writing these books. Maybe I need somebody at the 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:46.920 publishing house to help me. So I was like, I'll 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.600 try to sell it on proposal. So then I did 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.040 that twice and that didn't sell. I wanted to sell 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.160 a book called Happy Sad, Happy Sad, and then this 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.760 whole other like time based book, and it was mostly 0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.800 to try to find a way to tell link all 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.200 these stories that I and I hadn't found like a 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.360 good packaging device for it until I came up with 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.120 this books related piece and decided to link all my 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:11.720 stories through books. And I was like, I know this 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.480 is going to sell it, It's going to sell and 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.960 then and then I really, you know, my confidence wayne 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.240 as I got rejections for that, but anyway, I'll just 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.960 say it's sold. And I did end up with the 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.240 perfect editor for me, named Carmen Johnson. She did help 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.480 me figure out the best way. I mean, I could 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.000 tell my story a million ways. I could write a 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.680 book about you know, this pair of reading glasses, like 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.240 I can write about anything. I just needed some direction 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.600 and she helped me and and I did it, and 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.160 then that became book Ends. So that was a long 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.160 way of saying it was not easy. And I would 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.480 show up to my podcast after getting a rejection or 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.480 realizing a certain proposal would not become a book and 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.920 just that they're being like why can I not do this? 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.640 Like why does it seem so easy? For every day 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.760 I get pitched like a basilion books? How did they 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.880 all sell their books? What is wrong with me? Why 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.120 can I not do this? And I never really worried, 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.440 like I feel like I'm a good writer, and I 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.000 don't often say good things about myself, but I feel 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.760 confident that, like I know what word comes after the 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.000 next word, and I'm not some sort of literary writer, 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.120 but I can express my feelings through words. And I 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.120 was like, I can do this, like I just need 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.640 the opportunity. So yes, it was a long road. How 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.440 did you come to terms with dealing with the constant knows? 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.480 You know? Not? Well? I remember this one trip I 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.080 went to London because I had won something called a 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.040 Lovey Award for my podcast, and I traveled there to 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.080 go to the ward ceremony and it was very exciting. 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:44.640 I got a fancy dress and like this whole thing. 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.520 But while I was there, I got like the final 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.440 no for this one proposal, and I got it like 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.480 in the middle of the night because of London timing 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.640 and whatever, and I just sat in the bathroom, crying 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.160 like because what I really want. I'm like, yeah, it's nice, 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.200 I got this word, but I really wanted was the 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.960 book deal? Right? And then I would just like wait 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:05.879 a little bit, and I was like, I have to 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.480 get this out. I would wallow. I'm not gonna lie. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.280 There was a little wallowing involved and perhaps some extra 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.480 food and you know, but you know, Kyle was there 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.240 and wouldn't let me quit. You know, it's like, you're 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.120 gonna get this, so you're gonna find your way. It's 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.320 you know, don't give up. And and so I would 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:27.400 let time pass and then I would just try again, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.359 try another way. And you know, it's like if I 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.640 had a whole thing of keys, like of a janitor 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.480 or something. You know, it's like I kept being like, Okay, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.560 I'm gonna pull out another key. Let me try another 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:42.880 way to get into this story. And so I'm very 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.680 appreciative to him, and and also just this nagging feeling 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.760 like it is my purpose to put this out there. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.320 I don't know why. It sounds like very high and mighty, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.840 but I I have just felt like this absolute compulsion 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.640 to get the story out there. Has this book put 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.040 more pressure on your relationship with Kyle. No, I don't 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.639 feel that way. I mean I would say to anyone like, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.880 we are a regular couple now, like I just said 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.880 to you. I mean, I don't make any false claims 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.920 that there is perfection in any relationship. But I do 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.280 feel like we are very well suited and that we 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.119 were meant to be together. That said, you know, we 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.679 tried to adopt a puppy last week and I was like, 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.119 this is gonna just like fill us. Do you know, 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.160 like when you're not going to survive this where it's 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.720 like four thirty in the morning and I'm like, come downstairs. 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.119 The puppy won't stop biting my legs, you know. So 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:39.240 um uh. We still have like every couple has stuff, 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.040 and it is stressful. I have four kids and X 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:47.360 has been a dog life, two big jobs. I mean, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.240 there is stuff, so there's always stuff, but we always 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.600 make up and we're quick to apologize. I think there's 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.280 so many ways to quote unquote argue or fight or 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.080 whatever where it doesn't have to be knockdown drag. How 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:06.159 do you know, emotional firestorm. I mean I used to 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.080 have a hard time apologizing sometimes and now I'm always 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.720 like if he's like, you know, I really don't appreciate that. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.040 You know, I don't know. You left to go to 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.399 the camp drop off without me when I was waiting, 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.640 and instead of being like, well, you know, I might 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:23.600 start out with them, but then I quickly like, you 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.119 know what, You're right, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.720 am sorry. And he is also good at explaining why 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.040 it hurt his feelings or so it takes two, but 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.520 he is good at explaining, and I understand once he explains, 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.760 and then we move on. So I think the rebound 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.080 from whatever conflict is also really important and and all that. 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.760 In your book, you're forthcoming about the fact that your 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.439 father started Blackstone Group and what it was like to 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.399 be the daughter of someone so successful. In full disclosure, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:56.640 I knew of you because of your podcast. The person 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.399