1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you? 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: From housetop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. And before we go any further, 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: I would like to say a special hello to everyone 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: who is listening to us right now. While in the bathroom, Yes, 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: this this goes out to you, and while you were 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: in the bathroom, I'd like you to ponder for a 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: moment the way that you're using the toilet and what 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: it means socially. I bet you never thought about that before, 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: but we're here to tell you what it means, and 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 1: it means a lot. Public restrooms, especially are loaded with 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: gender politics and racial politics exactly. And we're not even 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: we're not We're not messing around here. Okay, all right, 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: I'm a little tongue in cheek, but seriously, uh, toilets 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: and public restrooms have a surprisingly rich history of controversy 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: in terms of access, right. I mean, first of all, 18 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: women were denied public restrooms for an absurdly long period 19 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: of time. Well because we didn't leave the house, That's true. 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: We were barefoot and pregnant and baking I'm sure, tending 21 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: to our gardens and whatnot, shuffling to the outhouse right 22 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: now and then exactly um, and then you know, once, 23 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: once there are public restrooms, there's an issue of equality 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: because I know that you've been at a ball game 25 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: or a bar or something where you've had to wait 26 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: in line for the bathroom for a significant period of time, 27 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: well while the guys just breathed in and out. I 28 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: remember going to a Braves game last year and waiting, 29 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: waiting in line for the bathroom for twenty minutes. Did 30 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: you make it? I barely made it. Hear all these 31 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: women uttering like relievably. Oh God. Well, that's why you 32 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: find so much camaraderie in the bathroom line for for 33 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: the women's restroom, because you're all in this this horrible 34 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 1: situation together having to hold your bowels. Um. But let's 35 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: not let's not get to ahead of ourselves, because the 36 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: thing is, you're talking about being at a Braves game 37 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: and having to wait for a bathroom. But the thing is, Caroline, 38 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: here in the United States, in the Western world, we 39 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: are taking our bathrooms for granted big time. Uh. It 40 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: is a huge problem. Access to santation facilities, especially for women, 41 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: is a huge problem in developing countries. Um. We've touched 42 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: on this before in the podcast How toilet access is 43 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: I'M a problem for school girls in particular in rural 44 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: areas because it prevents them from attending school during their periods. 45 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: If they don't have access to a toilet, they have 46 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: to stay home, and that only keeps them home even longer. 47 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: You have a lot of area is um In Africa 48 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: as well, the Amnesty International has worked hard to try 49 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: and get more UH sanitation facilities in there. But even 50 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: in countries like China and India, access to toilets is 51 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: still a huge problem. Um. This is coming from a 52 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: couple of articles in the Economist magazine. In India, around 53 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty million women lack access to toilets 54 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: and because of that they have to wait until night 55 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: to go out to the bathroom, risking rape, kidnapping, and 56 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: snake bites. Right, that's dangerous. Um. But in in China, 57 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: which I think of as a pretty pretty developed, modern country, 58 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: according to that World Health Organization report from it estimated 59 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: that forty percent of Chinese people lack access to improve 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: sanitation facilities, which contributes to the risk of disease. Right, 61 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: And that makes sense because there are still so many 62 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: large pockets of rural areas in China, even in Beijing. 63 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: There has been a protest movement, a small kind of 64 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: more underground protest movement to get more toilets in urban 65 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: areas because as people are traveling around getting from home 66 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: to job and back again, these busses will stop off 67 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: and everyone will get out of the bus to use 68 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: the public restroom, and there are the same number of 69 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: toilets for men and women. And because of that, you know, 70 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: women don't can't go to the bathroom because all the 71 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: stalls are taken up and a lot of times, um 72 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: they mentioned how a lot of the sanitation workers are women. 73 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: So the women are cleaning a bathroom, using up one stall, 74 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: eliminating another, you know, another toilet for use. Yeah, an 75 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: activists have had it. Activists in China are tired of 76 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: having to wait in line for the bathroom. Well, like 77 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: like I was at the Braves game, while men just 78 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: breathe in and out, and so it's not just an inconvenience. 79 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: They're saying that it's a gender equality issue and Lea 80 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: ting Ting, a twenty two year old student, has led 81 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: the Occupy Men's Toilet movement, during which she and several 82 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: activists took over a men's restroom near a park, allowing 83 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: women to use the empty stalls for three minutes at 84 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: a time before they would wave the men back in 85 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: for ten minutes. And in this way they you know, 86 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: we're hoping to raise awareness and bring attention to the 87 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: fact that women need more restroom space. Now, one thing 88 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: that I did not realize is that a number of countries, 89 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: um including the US, on the state level, have what 90 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: are referred to as potty parity laws, essentially laws stating 91 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: you must have an equal number of bathrooms for men 92 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: and for women. And why in the United States would 93 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: we need something like that? Oh? Well, instances like in 94 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: West Virginia that barred women from jury service until ninety 95 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: six because the courthouses lacked female toilets. Oh and it's 96 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: not just it's not just in states. Let's talk about 97 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: the US capital, because the Capitol building did not have 98 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: a female bathroom for female senators until and because of that, 99 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: they would have to run downstairs and use their tourist 100 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: restroom and then run back upstairs, whereas mail senators had 101 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: their own designated, special private bathroom exactly. So bathrooms were 102 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: used as an excuse to keep women out of certain activities. Yeah, 103 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: I hope you can't miss your boat because you're waiting 104 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: in the line for the bathroom. Right. Um, but this 105 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: potty parody, I mean, it's saying one to one, it's 106 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: saying men and women need equal bathrooms. But one to 107 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: one is not an equal opportunity ratio because our time 108 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: in the bathroom. Let's face it, folks, it is not 109 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: one to one. Right. Study from Virginia Tech measured how 110 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: long it takes men and women to use the bathroom. 111 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: It found that women take an average of three minutes 112 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: to quote, go in, go and go out, whereas men 113 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: are in and out in eighty three points six seconds, 114 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: about half the time. Now. I tweeted this little fact 115 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: TOID before we came in to record, uh, and received 116 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: a number of interesting replies, one of which was from 117 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: a woman who I guess she didn't notice that I 118 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: had said public restrooms because she was like, wait a minute, No, 119 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: my husband takes a really long time in the bathroom, 120 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: but now we're talking about out in public guys go in, 121 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: go out, and usually it takes women on average twice 122 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: as long. Okay, so it's an issue of time and 123 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: it's an issue of space. This is coming from the Economist. Uh. 124 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: They quoted George Washington University law professor at John bans Off, 125 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: who told them that sanitary facilities are assigned by area, 126 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: like we were saying, but up to twelve urinals can 127 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: fit into a space, they can hold only three to 128 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: four sit down toilets. So women either need more space 129 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: or we need more solutions. And as we'll go into 130 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: in more detail, the design of women's bathroom stalls has 131 00:07:55,200 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: not changed much since the eighteen fifties. There has not 132 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: been a ton of innovation, even though as we'll also 133 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: discuss female urinals. That's right, female urinals are one proposed solution. 134 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: But let's get back to this issue of access and 135 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: talk for a moment about some stuff that's been going 136 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: on more on college campuses and um trans students on 137 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: college campuses who want unisex bathrooms. Right. Catherine Anthony and 138 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: architecture professor UH said in that Economist article that one 139 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: solution is to make more bathrooms unisex. She says, either 140 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: there are no lines or everyone has to wait, and 141 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: she says that it also makes life easier for transgender 142 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: people who have to worry about making a public choice 143 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: and being ridiculed. All right, And this is coming from 144 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: the paper Restroom Revolution, Unisex Toilets and Campus Politics by 145 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: Olga Gershonson, and she writes, to traditional sex segregated public 146 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: restrooms bring transgender people routine risk of being insulted, mocked, 147 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: a tact, and even arrested. So again, we're taking for 148 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: granted a lot of times access to public bathrooms, not 149 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: just by virtue of living in the US, where the 150 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: axis usually is more abundant, but also by virtue of 151 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: being cis gender heterosexual identified females who can just you know, 152 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: we see the lady sign and we know right where 153 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: to walk. That's not the same situation for a transgender person. 154 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: And this is coming from the Transgender Law and Policy 155 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: Institute that listed a lot of problems that transgender high 156 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: school students face in particular, and they found that often 157 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: transgender and gender nonconforming students don't feel safe in either 158 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: the men's or the women's restroom because of the danger 159 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: of harassment um and they found that in a transgender 160 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: focus group, the lack of safe bathrooms is the biggest 161 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: problem that gender nonconforming students face because a lot of 162 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: gender scholars will point out that when you really think 163 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: about it, the way that bathrooms are segregated between men's 164 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: and women and it's also a way of um, I guess, 165 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: making our private parts even more private. Yes, and the 166 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 1: idea of gender gender neutral locker rooms was actually suggested 167 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: by transgender students at Grinnell College in Iowa. They'd already 168 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: had gender neutral dorm options for three years, but last 169 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: year added gender neutral locker rooms at the encouragement of students. Yeah, 170 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: especially among private UM colleges and universities in the US, 171 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: gender neutral dorms have become more common. I think they're 172 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: The USA Today article sited fifty four college campuses that 173 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: already have those. UM. But in that Restroom Revolution article 174 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: that I mentioned by Olga Gershenson UM, she talks a 175 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: lot about the two thousand one protest movement that started 176 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: at University of Massachusetts Amherst by a student group called 177 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: Restroom Revolution that was lobbying for transgender friendly unisex bathrooms, 178 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: and they ran into not only opposition from other students 179 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: on campus UM and even some gay organizations who said, 180 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: you're just trying to get attention. This is bathrooms. Just 181 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: you've been going to the bathroom, Just keep going to 182 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: the same bathroom that you went to. No big deal, UM. 183 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: But when they went and actually talked to the vice 184 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: chancellor about getting UM unisex bathrooms in there, I thought 185 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: it was interesting that the Massachusetts Architectural Code stated that 186 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: a bathroom had to be designated by gender, and I 187 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: wonder that was in two thousand one, and I wonder 188 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: if some of those codes are changing, because I went 189 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: back and checked and the campus does now have gender 190 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: neutral bathrooms in a lot of the dorms. Now. So, 191 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: while party politics has become a platform for UM transgender rights, 192 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: the gender issues go a long way back to when 193 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: the first public conveniences as they were called, were invented 194 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: and installed in London. And like you mentioned earlier, Caroline, 195 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: they were restricted from two men only. Women could not 196 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: use them. They did not have women in mind when 197 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: they first invented public restrooms, right because we don't need 198 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: the house, UM. But the the first large scale public 199 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: bathrooms were featured at London's Great Exhibition of eighteen fifty one, 200 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: and it was the first time that people saw this 201 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: set up on a on a large scale and thought, okay, 202 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: this is how it works. And they thought it worked 203 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: so well that it hasn't changed the whole design of 204 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: like going into a stall, unlocking the door and sitting 205 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: down on a toilet. Right. Barbara Penner, who is an 206 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: architectural lecturer at the University College of London UM talks 207 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: about how the model of ladies room that was established 208 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: at that Great Exhibition by George Jennings, that came with 209 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: a private stall with the water closet, lock and door, 210 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: is still so dominant it has not been seriously rethought 211 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: in the last hundred and fifty years. Yeah. Well back 212 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: then it was just good that they got toilets because 213 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: public health concerns back in the nineteenth century led to 214 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: the prevent vision of public toilets, but the majority, like 215 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: we said, were for men only, and women immediately started 216 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: fighting this because you know, sometimes they did have to 217 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: be out of the house for whatever reason. UM, the 218 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: Ladies Sanitary Association and members of the public in England 219 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: campaigned for women's toilets and high traffic areas, and one 220 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: was going to be installed in nineteen hundred, but this 221 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: giant brew haha broke out and people were calling it 222 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: an abomination. I don't want it anywhere near my house. 223 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: That's filthy and inappropriate, So the project was abandoned. There 224 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: was not a public women's bathroom in that area of 225 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: London until nineteen oh five. Yeah, it was sort of 226 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: a twofold protest against it. One being the the impropriety 227 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: of women urinating and possibly defecating. Women don't do that, no, 228 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: but doing it in public no less Caroline than everyone 229 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: would know that, yes and due indeed yes, and dude, 230 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: yes indeed women do poop um. So they didn't like 231 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: the idea of women using the bathroom in pub And 232 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: then also this potential interaction of the women who would 233 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: leave to be shopping, the more leisurely upper class women 234 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: who would be shopping, who might interact with lower class 235 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: factory girls and flower girls. But in order to keep 236 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: the class divide, they charged a penny to use this 237 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: public bathroom, but there was a cheaper option. There was 238 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: a cheaper option in a female urinet was installed in 239 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: one London public lou and it only cost a halfpenny 240 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: and instead of it being a stall with a door 241 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: that you locked, they had a curtain and it was 242 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: a It was a stand up operation, which was pretty 243 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: handy because Victorian underwear was open at the crutch. As 244 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: we have discussed before in the podcast Queen Victoria in Victoria, 245 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: I wonder if she ever used one. Certainly not certainly 246 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: not um, but it's it's been a hard transition, I 247 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: think to try to convince women to use urinals or 248 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: urinets made specifically for them. I think there's definitely prevailing 249 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: attitude that it's weird or immodest or improper. Well, Barbara Penner, 250 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: who was that that toilet scholar that I mentioned from 251 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: University College of London, has got her hands on some 252 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: model urinets that that or They were essentially like siphons 253 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: that women could use to to get the urine from 254 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: out out of them to the toilet without spring everywhere. 255 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: Women out there, you know what I'm I'm talking about. 256 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: It's not the easiest to pee while standing up. I 257 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: used to work in an office where someone would spray 258 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: all over the seat and I think that individual could 259 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: have benefited from a urinet. Yeah, they were um a 260 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: lot of times they were just shaped like a funnel, 261 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: but there was one from the mid eighteen hundreds. It 262 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: was glass blown urinet that was shaped like, um, a penis. 263 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess they were. They figured, hey, well 264 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: guys used this too to piece, so let's work for 265 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: the women. Let's maintain this theme. But again, the female 266 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: urin never really caught on, although, fun fact, in nineteen 267 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: fifty and nineteen seventy three the American Standard Toilet Company 268 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: tried again to produce a female urinal, but it didn't 269 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: really catch on so much. No, it still hasn't. And 270 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: the most recent that I've read about it, there was 271 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: an article in Cabinet magazine by Barbara Penner, who you 272 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: mentioned before, talking about female urinals at at the Glastonbury 273 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: Music Festival and that they used penates, these little like 274 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: cardboard things you would like stick, I guess stick them 275 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: in your underwear, used to direct the stream of urine. 276 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: It's basically like a yurin funnel. Um. I've also I 277 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: think there's also a p she out there. Yeah, you 278 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: can see you'll see them sometimes more at at festivals, 279 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: but I've never seen one in person. I have an 280 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: either I there was one quote where the where a 281 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: girl at Glastonbury said that she really liked the idea 282 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: was pretty handy because you didn't have to go in 283 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: one of those filthy borda potties, but that it was 284 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: a little hard to use when you've been drinking at 285 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: a music festival, understandably careful, but talking about the gender 286 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: politics of the bathroom and going to the bathroom, we 287 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: would be remiss to not mention this quote from The 288 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: Second Sex by Simon Beauvoir, written in because she believed 289 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: that teaching little girls to squat and urinate constituted, quote, 290 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: the most striking sexual differentiation of their childhood. And by 291 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: by teaching little girls to squat when using the bathroom, 292 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: it was teaching them to to hide themselves, and it 293 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: was a shameful and inconvenient procedure. And the erect position 294 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: was reserved for men alone. Right, Well, you mentioned these 295 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: ladies before. Olga Gershinson and Barbara Penner and their introduction 296 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 1: to the book Ladies and Gents, Public Toilets and Gender, 297 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: they wrote that public bathrooms are the last openly sex 298 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: segregated spaces, and the spaces we expect to be sex segregated, 299 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: and we go into them knowing that the guys next 300 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: door are probably gonna be standing up and we're probably 301 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: gonna be sitting down. And so it really is, they say, 302 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: reflects and shapes the binary division of men and women, 303 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: as well as quote proper relationships between people of the 304 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: same sex, And which is why, when you think about 305 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: it in all of those terms, why it makes sense 306 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: that these transgender students in particular are so adamant about 307 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: getting safer unisex spaces to where you can you can 308 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: do away with all those gendered trappings. And while we 309 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: talked a lot about gender in this episode, we also 310 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: have to address race because during the Civil rights movement 311 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: in the US, bathrooms were one of the last places 312 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: to be desegregated. For listeners out there who have seen 313 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: or read The Help, one of the plot lines revolves 314 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: around how this completely racist white woman UM does not 315 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: want her black maid to use the bathroom because of 316 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: these bogus leaves about race specific diseases UM and these 317 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: desegregation cases about regarding bathrooms. One as late as nineteen 318 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: seventy seven, there's a case James v. Stockholm that was 319 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: still hashing out segregation of public bathrooms in in workplaces especially, 320 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: So we talked about gender, We've talked about race. Who 321 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: knew that the potty politics of public restrooms? I can't 322 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: say that five times fast? But who knew that the 323 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: potty politics of public restrooms was so so complicated? Right? 324 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: I had never uh considered myself um at a disadvantage 325 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: as far as the bathroom goes, other than you know, 326 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm going to have to cross my 327 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: legs and pray that I get into a stall really fast. 328 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of it as a equality issue, but 329 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: the fact that women don't have the space that they 330 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: need to get to the bathroom in time, hundreds of 331 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: million of women and I'm sure men too. But this 332 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: is this is an issue that is still very much 333 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: needs to be solved on a global level and down 334 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: to you know, rights for for transgender people as well, exactly. 335 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,959 Speaker 1: So I think we can flush this episode. Oh I 336 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: had to, I had to do. Do you have any 337 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: toilet pun you want to get out before we close it? 338 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: Thanked up? I think I'm good. Yeah, Okay, let's just 339 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: wipe this one off the books. There you go. Okay, 340 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: So if if any listeners out there have any any toilet, 341 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: any clean toilet puns to send our way, or any 342 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: experiences with bathrooms? Have you thought about bathrooms on this level? 343 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: I know it might have at first seemed absurd to 344 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: talk about potty politics because you're referring to a toilet 345 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: as a potty and rhyming it with politics. And have 346 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: you ever had a bathroom conflict? Because I remember I 347 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: I actually yelled at me. I was at a restaurant 348 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: that had it's it's two bathrooms used to be unisex, 349 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: and they had recently changed it to women and men, 350 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: and the women's line was ridiculous. So I just went 351 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: in the men's room. It was a single stall, Yeah, 352 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: and I came out and this guy started literally cussing 353 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: me out. It's like, really, dude, you should tell him 354 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: about the three million women in India who don't have potties. 355 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: So with that, send us your thoughts. Mom stuff at 356 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is our email address, and I've got 357 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: one here from Marcy. And this is in reference to 358 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 1: our recent episode on age gaps in relationships. She writes, 359 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: I happen to be in a long distance relationship with 360 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: someone twenty seven years older than myself. Though most of 361 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: our communication is through talking on the phone, what's amazing 362 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: is that we can talk for hours every week, even 363 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: though we don't actually get to do much together. I 364 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: don't feel as if age difference affects our relationship, except 365 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: that I find guys my age are looking for someone 366 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: who is outgoing and exciting, as I've seen on many 367 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: online dating profiles, and older men tend to be happier 368 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: than younger men. Someone is simply able to hold an 369 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: intelligent conversation. My long distance relationship and I are actually 370 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: close in the same life stages in many ways, since 371 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: we're both mature, responsible adults, and we can discuss things 372 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: that many less stable people don't have in common with us, 373 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: like taking care of a house. But more than anything, 374 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: we are both very curious people and enjoy sharing information. 375 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: And by the way, we buck the statistics and that 376 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: we both have advanced degrees and decent jobs. So thanks 377 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: for that, Marci, excellent. I have a very serious email here. 378 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: David has a bound to pick. This is coming from 379 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: our air brushing episode, more like a nip to pick. 380 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: He says, how could you do an episode on air 381 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: brushing without mentioning Marky Mark's third nipple. It was discreetly 382 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: air brushed out of all of his underwear modeling shots. 383 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: He should be proud to carry an extra nipple like 384 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: Anne Boleyn or the Man with the Golden Gun. Yeah. 385 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: I did not realize that that Mark Wallberg a k a. 386 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: Marky Mark had a third nipple. I was urious, but 387 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: thankfully he sent us a link and um to to 388 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: an interview with Mark Wahlberg and Will Ferrell, and Mark 389 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: Wahlberg confirms that yes, indeed he has a third nipple 390 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: and like the size of a regular nipple. No, he says, 391 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: it's about the size of an infant's nipple. It's like 392 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: an small, undeveloped nipple. But the winner, I wonder if 393 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: it's along his milk line, milk bridge on the milk ridge. 394 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: That's right. So two episodes of one airbrushing men and 395 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: nipples tying it all together. So thanks to everyone who 396 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: has shared so much esoteric knowledge like third nipples of 397 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: celebrities with us. Mom stuff at Discovery dot com is 398 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: the address you can send your thoughts too, and you 399 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: can also find us on Facebook. Leave us a comment there, 400 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: or you can tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast, and 401 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: of course you can find us steering a week at 402 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: our home website, how stuff works dot com. Be sure 403 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. 404 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most 405 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The How Stuff Works 406 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes, brought 407 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, 408 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: are you