Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Ellen Pompeo's coming, I know you do.
Speaker 1: What I find most interesting about her is she's married
Speaker 1: to a black guy and she has three brown children.
Speaker 1: It's only been fifty one year since the US Supreme
Speaker 1: Court decriminalized interracial marriage. New statistics reveal a dramatic increase
Speaker 1: in people marrying outside of their race. Ellen Pompeo is
Speaker 1: one of them. Ellen is married to music producer Chris Ivory. Together,
Speaker 1: they have three biracial children. I can't even imagine that.
Speaker 1: But that's why every even dated outside of my race
Speaker 1: at all, never ever had a lot of that. For
Speaker 1: you certainly did. Ellen. Thank you so much. And I
Speaker 1: know that your big superstar Grays Anatomy that show. Me
Speaker 1: and gam were obsessed with it for a very long day.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Thank you, Thank you. It has been an
Speaker 1: amazing journey. And I also know that you're like the
Speaker 1: highest paid actress on television. We're trying to make money moves.
Speaker 1: That's that part. We did a show dealing with race
Speaker 1: issues with women of color and white women, and we've
Speaker 1: been dealing with trying to understand how to bridge the gap.
Speaker 1: It's hella difficult. I don't feel like you have to tiptoe.
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid to talk about race. A lot of
Speaker 1: people get very nervous when you bring it up, and
Speaker 1: I understand why I do, but I am not afraid.
Speaker 1: That's good to know because that's how I want to
Speaker 1: be sensitive, because you never know how someone else feels
Speaker 1: about it, and you don't want to put them on
Speaker 1: the griller and be right. But I mean, at the
Speaker 1: same time, it's like, listen, these are important conversations to have,
Speaker 1: and if you're afraid to talk about it, then that's
Speaker 1: a problem right there, and you want to talk about
Speaker 1: it more then if you're afraid. I feel like you're
Speaker 1: in a unique situation. Yes, raising young girls in this time,
Speaker 1: let alone young brown girls, considering you know, Ellen is white.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. My challenge with raising brown children
Speaker 1: is how much do you say to them and how
Speaker 1: much do you not say to them? Right A couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, I had some friends over the house
Speaker 1: little girls of color. And the little girl came in
Speaker 1: and I introduced myself and I said, I'm Stella's mom's
Speaker 1: a little black girl. And she looked at me and
Speaker 1: she was like almost scared, you know, this white lady.
Speaker 1: And then she went right to Stella and she said,
Speaker 1: that's your mom. I thought that was that points to
Speaker 1: the nanny was a black girl. I thought that was
Speaker 1: your mom. And the little baby looked like she was
Speaker 1: scared of me. That just breaks my heart. You know,
Speaker 1: may be scared as a strong word. Maybe she wasn't confused, confused, confused,
Speaker 1: but again non trusting. Possibly that's why that experience of
Speaker 1: being in my house and meeting me was good for
Speaker 1: her to see that all white people aren't what you think.
Speaker 1: As moms and dad's, we have the responsibility to expose
Speaker 1: our children to all different types of people, to just
Speaker 1: show them the differences in the world. I I don't
Speaker 1: care for the word diversity. I'm over it quite honestly.
Speaker 1: But the teacher kids not to be afraid of different
Speaker 1: kinds of people, which only comes from exposure. Now, my
Speaker 1: husband is also bi racial, raised by a white mother
Speaker 1: and grew up in the projects in Boston, and he
Speaker 1: had his own experience because he was the only child
Speaker 1: growing up in the project with a white mother and
Speaker 1: no father in his life. So he was embarrassed. He
Speaker 1: loved his mother dearly and that was his queen, but
Speaker 1: she was white. We're both from Boston, and Boston is,
Speaker 1: you know, historically a very, very very place. It's where
Speaker 1: bussing started. So you know, I have a long history
Speaker 1: with the issue of race. I know, both sides, similar
Speaker 1: to my husband. I grew up in an Italian Irish
Speaker 1: neighborhood in Boston. It doesn't get any more racist than that, right,
Speaker 1: we're going back, you know, thirty years now. So that's
Speaker 1: my experience. It's very rare, and it's actually the racism
Speaker 1: is what drew me to black people, to to brown people,
Speaker 1: because I was like, what is it? Anger? And his
Speaker 1: name calling, and it just made me so curious, and
Speaker 1: I always had black friends. How was that received by
Speaker 1: your family? Oh my god, My father would have liked
Speaker 1: to think he was racist, tried to be, I guess
Speaker 1: culturally and societally, and I was gonna try to make
Speaker 1: him examine that every step of the way. My favorite
Speaker 1: thing to do was to have pool parties, and if
Speaker 1: I had all my black friends over and swim in
Speaker 1: the pool, so that when he would come home for
Speaker 1: full full of black boys. You know, because you're a teenager,
Speaker 1: you have to rebel a little bit. And then my
Speaker 1: husband ended up being his favorite person in the entire world,
Speaker 1: so we couldn't go a day without calling. I know
Speaker 1: that there have been times where you might not have
Speaker 1: gotten a warm welcome or gotten support from other women
Speaker 1: of women of color, or just women in general, no
Speaker 1: women of color specifically. Well, if black women have a
Speaker 1: problem with white women, I completely understand why. If any
Speaker 1: black person has a problem with any white person, I
Speaker 1: understand why. If black people have a problem with things
Speaker 1: that I've said. I used the term reverse racism that
Speaker 1: caused to stir people of color had a huge problem
Speaker 1: about that. They get a pass, they get to have
Speaker 1: a problem with whatever I say. All I can do
Speaker 1: is explain why I say it and what my experiences,
Speaker 1: and if you want to come at me for that,
Speaker 1: you get that right. You get that pass. Even if
Speaker 1: you're not individually racist, were responsible for each other right.
Speaker 1: So if you're not actively standing up and screaming from
Speaker 1: the rooftops, you are responsible for it. Tell us why
Speaker 1: you use the term reverse racism. Was there a specific incident? Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so Amy was going to put out this documentary about
Speaker 1: the KKK, and I had tweeted and was vocal, this
Speaker 1: isn't cool. You guys shouldn't be making this kind of programming.
Speaker 1: I don't care in what light that show is. The
Speaker 1: trailer that I saw was provocative and it was sensationalizing
Speaker 1: the KKK. And if you're going to give those dudes
Speaker 1: money for burning crosses or whatever they do, then that's
Speaker 1: not okay for me for an e a And he
Speaker 1: walked it back, said we're sorry, we're pulling it. So
Speaker 1: I was like, black fistemolgy, black power, I'm not appropriating culture.
Speaker 1: I'm just joining the fight. If you call me a
Speaker 1: white bitch, then isn't that judging me on the color
Speaker 1: of my skin? Why can't I help a victory from
Speaker 1: black people because I'm white? You know, if someone's defended
Speaker 1: by me using the black emogy, I'm sorry. It's not
Speaker 1: my intention to provoke you or try to offend you.
Speaker 1: But I still stand by what I did because it's
Speaker 1: a win for people of color and I'm here for
Speaker 1: it every day. Just because I use the brown emoji
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I think I'm black. I just think they
Speaker 1: misunderstood what you were doing with the black emoji. They
Speaker 1: just felt like you don't have the right. They don't
Speaker 1: know who you are really, how you feel inside that
Speaker 1: that you've been doing this for years. If you okay,
Speaker 1: it's okay. If they want to get mad at me
Speaker 1: for doing it, that's their right, because I don't know
Speaker 1: their pain. Because they feel like you don't have the
Speaker 1: right to use the black emoji, and that's okay. It's
Speaker 1: a really difficult position because I do feel as though,
Speaker 1: specifically for black women, there's a lack of trust. There's
Speaker 1: just such a lack of trust that I really feel
Speaker 1: like has to be rebuilt between That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like it's hard to do that when you keep experiencing
Speaker 1: having the same negative experience. Just what you were saying,
Speaker 1: help people don't feel comfortable talking about race. I feel
Speaker 1: like a part of that distrust is because of that,
Speaker 1: like like pull back from talking about it, you know,
Speaker 1: because of that anxiety. What are you scared of or
Speaker 1: even insecurity about talking about And I feel like that
Speaker 1: sometimes leads to that suspicion, Like, if you're scared of
Speaker 1: talking about it, then what do you really feel. I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of people are uncomfortable with talking
Speaker 1: about race because they're not around people, they don't spend time,
Speaker 1: so they get awkward and everyone's awkward. And one thing
Speaker 1: that I do think that would be productive for everybody
Speaker 1: to do is just try to make different friends. It's
Speaker 1: not like you have to form these deep friendships. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of black friends, and I have a
Speaker 1: lot of white friends. I don't see my white girlfriends
Speaker 1: have black people in their life. From what I can see,
Speaker 1: my black friends have plenty of white friends. Really, Um,
Speaker 1: just my personal world, my experience, something that kind of
Speaker 1: is driving me a little bit crazy. Currently right now,
Speaker 1: everybody so woke. We finally realized that we can put
Speaker 1: black people in films. Um that Will Smith isn't the
Speaker 1: only black movie star. Now it's popular now, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's popular to be inclusive. Yeah, And I like, I
Speaker 1: hate to be cynical. I don't want to be that person.
Speaker 1: You guys are just doing it because it's popular. So
Speaker 1: you're gonna follow Tiffany Hattish on Instagram, Well that's all great.
Speaker 1: You know, she's a superstar and we love her, but
Speaker 1: how many non entertainment people of color are in your
Speaker 1: life over dinner? Who are you going out with after work?
Speaker 1: I could not agree with you more And I feel
Speaker 1: like it's that oftent a city that needs to happen,
Speaker 1: the willingness to do, you know, break bread. You know,
Speaker 1: one of the things that I have such difficulty with.
Speaker 1: I haven't found anybody, or maybe I haven't opened myself
Speaker 1: up to allow myself to inter act enough to find
Speaker 1: out whether there's any commonality with me and other white
Speaker 1: women that I know. But it's brought in awareness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so maybe that's a little spiritual, little journey for you
Speaker 1: to tex. It's not like you have to form these
Speaker 1: deep friendships, but you should have different people in your circle.
Speaker 1: That's true. So Ellen, through all the ups and downs,
Speaker 1: you've had people calling you a white bitch and people
Speaker 1: telling you don't use the black power fast, and you
Speaker 1: know you marrying a black man and that probably being
Speaker 1: an issue at some point that could create a lot
Speaker 1: of insecurity, That could create a lot of instability in
Speaker 1: a parent sin what I've seen you is it is
Speaker 1: only created deeper character. So I suffered trauma at an
Speaker 1: early age, right, my mother died when I was four,
Speaker 1: And I think that when you suffer any kind of trauma,
Speaker 1: especially as a child, I think you learn compassion, and
Speaker 1: I think that that makes you a more compassionate person.
Speaker 1: At the root of it. Compassion is is a great practice.
Speaker 1: And I read a lot about the white identity, like
Speaker 1: what that's all about. There's a section of the population
Speaker 1: that truly feels like opportunities are going to be taken
Speaker 1: away from them by people of color, by lbg D community,
Speaker 1: you know, by anyone that's different from them. There's a
Speaker 1: real fear of losing their piece of the pie. Someone's
Speaker 1: going to power. I can see why some white people
Speaker 1: are intimidated. People of color are magical and mystical and
Speaker 1: powerful and beautiful, full and spiritual, and strong and excellent
Speaker 1: at what they do. There's just so much power and
Speaker 1: talent that, you know, the black world that's presented to
Speaker 1: white people is sports, right, entertainment, some of the greatest
Speaker 1: entertainers of all time. The black experience is a powerful one,
Speaker 1: and I can see where that would be intimidating. I
Speaker 1: personally just choose to be a fan, but I can
Speaker 1: see where if people were insecure, I guess you'd be
Speaker 1: scared by it. But it's so much easier to just
Speaker 1: celebrate it and just thank the universe for giving us
Speaker 1: people of color, because it's a gift. You know that.
Speaker 1: That's the first time I've heard that, Like really, yeah,
Speaker 1: well no from a white woman. I'm always feeling like,
Speaker 1: in a certain way, white women looking down at Black
Speaker 1: women in a certain manner, like they're angry, they're mean,
Speaker 1: So it's interesting to hear that idea of the insect,
Speaker 1: the insecurity component. I have been told many times by
Speaker 1: white women that are my peers. What's the problem, You're
Speaker 1: judging me. I'm like, no, I'm not judging you. I'm
Speaker 1: just speaking my mind, you know, because I get very
Speaker 1: passionate about certain things, Like if one of my white
Speaker 1: friends is like, you know, I'm gonna go meet with
Speaker 1: this you know, music producer at his house and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: are you bringing anybody? Like don't go alone? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: because you know this and this and this, and don't
Speaker 1: I don't play that like you need to be you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, they're are you judging? I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I just care about you. I want you to be safe,
Speaker 1: and so I want you to know that how I
Speaker 1: feel about it, so that nothing happens to you. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean. You shine a light on their
Speaker 1: ability not to speak up for themselves, so then they
Speaker 1: have to throw it back to you. Is you're too strong,
Speaker 1: you're too intimidating, you're too intense. That's interesting. I never
Speaker 1: thought about that. I mean, I don't think I'm angry.
Speaker 1: I just think i'm I know what I'm imagining. But
Speaker 1: that's a stereotype like when women have it. When when
Speaker 1: black women are passionate, they're angry. It's like not cool.
Speaker 1: I know, even for me over the years from Baltimore,
Speaker 1: from deep in the hood and having to really learn
Speaker 1: how to streamline my behavior and comments, you know, and
Speaker 1: style of communication because it was just considered so offensive,
Speaker 1: you know, and the idea of just being your passionate,
Speaker 1: big self. It's just one of those things that you
Speaker 1: just gotta keep on keeping on and breaking those stereotypes,
Speaker 1: right because the power is too much for people to handle.
Speaker 1: Real talk. Unconscious biases is a term that I think
Speaker 1: is you know, it should be plastered on everywhere because
Speaker 1: we haven't we all have about everything and you don't
Speaker 1: even realize it. Yeah, I tell you, that's one of
Speaker 1: the things that I had to check myself about was
Speaker 1: really me getting in contact with my unconscious biases. It's
Speaker 1: like as if we could all just check ourselves. Man,
Speaker 1: we could just do that instead of trying to check
Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, they yes, different worlds. Yes, that's a
Speaker 1: t shirt. Check yourself, not each other. They'll talk. Can
Speaker 1: we have a fishbowl? Please? Thank you? That's bringing us
Speaker 1: a fish bowl. You have some hand written you're right
Speaker 1: for Ellen. Why is it when a white person has
Speaker 1: children with a black person, the children are automatically black.
Speaker 1: M You gotta consider the fact typically they come out brown.
Speaker 1: Although we have family members whose children came out looking white.
Speaker 1: They look just white. Yeah, they just look like my
Speaker 1: son looks completely what. You couldn't even tell he has
Speaker 1: any brown in him at all. From my experience. If
Speaker 1: you're asking me a white person to answer this question,
Speaker 1: being black is a thing, and it's white people that
Speaker 1: have made it a thing. There is no escaping when
Speaker 1: your skin is dark. That's why my children are brown
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, because the world will see them
Speaker 1: that way and they will be discriminated against, and they
Speaker 1: will be judged, and they will be spoken to, and
Speaker 1: they will be treated like they are brown because their
Speaker 1: skin is brown. And me sticking up or celebrating brown
Speaker 1: people does not mean anti white. I celebrate anything black.
Speaker 1: I inevitably get a million comments. Why are the comments
Speaker 1: or can you tell whether the comments are coming from
Speaker 1: white people or are they coming from people? Of course
Speaker 1: they are, of course they are. They are threatened by
Speaker 1: my love of people of color or black culture. Alright,
Speaker 1: Amber from Detroit for the group Best life Lessons you
Speaker 1: have learned? Best life lessons I have learned is um,
Speaker 1: check yourself before you check somebody else. Learn how to
Speaker 1: come from a place of love. Love is the key.
Speaker 1: That is a new lesson, Believe it or not, it's
Speaker 1: a new lesson and one that I'm trying to learn,
Speaker 1: have to practice and incorporate in my life because that's
Speaker 1: a huge change for me and probably for a lot
Speaker 1: of people. I don't think I'm alone in that, No, No,
Speaker 1: I think as of so far, UM, I think the
Speaker 1: greatest life lesson that I've earned is that you just
Speaker 1: can't assume what anyone else is going through. From such
Speaker 1: a young age, I've had people trolling me on the internet,
Speaker 1: talking crazy to me in public. Yeah, they don't know
Speaker 1: what's happening in my life, and I don't know what's
Speaker 1: happening in their life. So I'm not gonna put my
Speaker 1: emotion into exactly exactly speak at hey, does this go? Hey?
Speaker 1: One of the biggest life lessons for me as of
Speaker 1: the last couple of years is really having the courage
Speaker 1: to do what was necessary for myself, make changes in
Speaker 1: my life, make changes in my relationships, to really find
Speaker 1: that sense of self love, and really be able to
Speaker 1: mature in a way to rely on myself emotionally. It's
Speaker 1: changed my life and and all my relationships in the
Speaker 1: best way. Is that practice of self love. Like, if
Speaker 1: you can't love yourself honestly, you cannot love you can't.
Speaker 1: The really craziest part is I thought at one point
Speaker 1: in time that my achievements would create that sense of
Speaker 1: self acceptance and self love, only to realize it didn't
Speaker 1: do it, and really having to strip all of that,
Speaker 1: strip my career, even my dependency on my relationship to Will,
Speaker 1: even my dependency on my relationship to my kids. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's something I think every mother, I had to just
Speaker 1: like go to the bare bone and just have Jada
Speaker 1: and whoa when I tell you that was who that
Speaker 1: I mean, just to just tear everything down. And that
Speaker 1: only comes with age. Everyone talks about, you know, youth,
Speaker 1: but no one talks about the wonderful things about getting older.
Speaker 1: And the wonderful thing about getting older is the wisdom
Speaker 1: that that we're imparted with. Absolutely, I'm a white woman
Speaker 1: engaged to a black man. What are some things I
Speaker 1: need to know to l Just love him? Just just y'all,
Speaker 1: just love each other. Just love each other. Communication is
Speaker 1: the key to any relationship. It really, if you want
Speaker 1: to stay in a marriage, you gotta listen first and talk.
Speaker 1: I would imagine that with black men and white women.
Speaker 1: White women have a sense of oppression, you know, just
Speaker 1: being you know, being a woman. I have dated some
Speaker 1: really wonderful white men, but it was interesting in the
Speaker 1: fact that you're dating someone who has no idea what
Speaker 1: oppression or any kind of you know, he's at the
Speaker 1: top of the food chain. He just he can't he
Speaker 1: don't understand, you know what I mean. It's a very
Speaker 1: hard thing for him to be able to relate to.
Speaker 1: It was always the factor in the relationship. It that
Speaker 1: made it break. Katie from Manhattan Beach. What's the best
Speaker 1: piece of advice you didn't take, um to quit the business,
Speaker 1: that I'd never make it. I probably would have to
Speaker 1: go with that. I remember surely my grandmother telling me,
Speaker 1: you know, you'll never make it. You need to go
Speaker 1: to college. She told me that because she's trying to
Speaker 1: protect me, and that's why I never education was a
Speaker 1: pity for her. Our last little question, are you and
Speaker 1: Patrick Dempsey still friends? We haven't spoken since he's left
Speaker 1: the show. Okay, I have no hard feelings toward him.
Speaker 1: He's a wonderful actor and we made you know, the
Speaker 1: best TV you can make together. That's a talented man
Speaker 1: right there, and he did eleven amazing years. You know,
Speaker 1: typically when people leave the show, they need there, They
Speaker 1: need to sort of we find themselves who they are
Speaker 1: without the show, because the show takes up so much
Speaker 1: of your life. You need that time to like figure
Speaker 1: out who you are without the show. So we have
Speaker 1: not spoken, but um, I will always have a place
Speaker 1: in my heart for Patrick Ellen. This was amazing. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I just would want to thank you for having this
Speaker 1: show and for creating this forum to be part of
Speaker 1: the change. Yeah, I want you to know I consider
Speaker 1: you my home girl. Yeah, come over my house on
Speaker 1: our next Red Table Talk. Why am I depressed? Like
Speaker 1: it was a nightmare and you know, I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to keep it together because kick everybody's Like he wrote,
Speaker 1: I was dealing with my alane. It was a very
Speaker 1: private thing because I was ashamed. I felt utterly out
Speaker 1: of control where I just had a complete emotional collapse
Speaker 1: that then I became extremely suicidal. Oh my goodness, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much for us spare say
Speaker 1: this is also thank you, Thank you so much. Hey,
Speaker 1: red table Talk family. Head to our red table Talk
Speaker 1: facebook watch show page. Join the conversation and become a
Speaker 1: part of red table Talk. To join the red table
Speaker 1: Talk family and become a part of the conversation. Follow
Speaker 1: us at Facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast
Speaker 1: produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.