1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Hello, Mobituaries listeners. As you know, this podcast is about 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: my favorite dead people and things. But for this episode, 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: we wanted to well liven things up, so we decided 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: to tape in front of a live audience. What follows 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: is a compilation of two appearances I made in Asbury Park, 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: New Jersey and Fairfield, Connecticut. There was plenty of fun 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: and games, plus I interviewed legendary New York Times obituary 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: writer Margatite Fox. Just a few times, you're going to 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: hear the audience reacting to images displayed on a screen, 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure you'll get the joke. So without 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: further ado from CBS Sunday Morning and Simon and Schuster, 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm Morocca and this is Mobituaries. Ladies and gentlemen. Please 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: welcome to the stage. Mo Rocca. Hello, good evening. Thank 14 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: you very much. I am so happy to be here 15 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: in Asbury Park for the first Obituaries live. I inherited 16 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: my love of obituaries from my father. My father always 17 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: said that the obits was his favorite section of the newspaper, 18 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: and I think it's because my father had a real 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: sense of the romance of life. And I'm not being cute. 20 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: When I say that romance of life and obits, I 21 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: think he appreciated the sort of the dramatic sweep of 22 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: an obituary, seeing a person's life the highs and lows 23 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: kind of reduced to a few inches of newsprint. It's 24 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: sort of like a movie trailer for an Oscar winning biopic, 25 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: right It's which is usually much better than the full movie, 26 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: but kind of the the lows. It's so dramatic, and 27 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: to read a good one, you're like you're really swept away. 28 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: For instance, W J. Sidas not a famous person, but 29 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: boy what a story. X Prodigy and obscure clerk the 30 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: all important first line. William James Sidis, who was a 31 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: child prodigy, completed seven years of public schooling in six 32 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: months and astounded Harvard University professors with his original theories 33 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: on the fourth dimension, died today a lonely obscure clerk, 34 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: one of whose last jobs was operating an adding machine 35 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: at fifteen dollars a week. I mean, you just know 36 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: that the kid who plays young Sheldon is going to 37 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: win an Oscar playing that role. One of the things 38 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: that I kind of like to do is imagine certain 39 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: people with very eventful lives. What the first line of 40 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: their obituary will be. Um, someone likes say Bill Cosby, 41 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I like him. His life is eventful. 42 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: So so this is the line I came up with 43 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: what would be sort of a first line that could 44 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: pack it all in Bill Cosby, the Philadelphia born legendary 45 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: stand up comedian who broke barriers when he became the 46 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: first black actor to star in an American television drama 47 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: before going on to star in his own blockbuster Upon 48 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: Him as Sitcom, but whose legacy was eclipsed by a 49 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: torrent of accusations of drug facilitated sex crimes, and who 50 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: was two thousand eighteen conviction of aggravated and decent assault 51 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: sent him to prison, where he lived out his days 52 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: in disgrace. Died today. Now, when I was in the 53 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: third grade, I loved diagramming sentences. I don't know how 54 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: the heck you could diagram that sentence. Actually I do. 55 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: I want to roll to see it. This is where 56 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: Twitter is so great. I went on Twitter and I said, 57 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: I have a sentence diagramming emergency. Can someone helped me? 58 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: And a guy named Matthew Brown helped me out so 59 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: any good obituary writer, and we have a great one 60 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: coming out later, will tell you that someone's obituary is 61 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: not about their death, but really about their life, which 62 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: is what I'm interested in. I've been a correspondent on 63 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: CBS Sunday Morning for about thirteen years now, thinking much, 64 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: thank you, and I've done probably over a hundred different profiles, 65 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: and I love doing them of all different types of people. 66 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: One sobering thing that I've learned from this whole experience 67 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: is that basically everybody will be forgotten. You probably knew 68 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: that already. My colleague gets CBS Sunday Morning and my 69 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: friend Rita Braver was profiling Nora Fron, the writer, producer 70 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: and the wit in two thousand two, Yeah, and um 71 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: profiling her. She had, what's that, No Fron? Well, okay, 72 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: but let me tell you something that I don't want 73 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: to either. I mean, but and I'm not not going to. 74 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: But Rita Braver was was profile telling her about a 75 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: musical that she had written, called Imaginary Friends, about the 76 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,559 Speaker 1: vicious feud between the great writers and intellectuals Lillian Hellman 77 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 1: and Mary McCarthy. And Rita at one point asked Nora Efron. 78 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: She said, you know, how do you want to be remembered? 79 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: And Nora Efron said, to her, remembered. Lilian Helman and 80 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: Mary McCarthy were the biggest names in America at one point, 81 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: and they've been dead for ten or twelve years now 82 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: and no one knows their names. And I kind of thought, well, yeah, right, whatever. 83 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: But when we were doing this podcast, I wanted in 84 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: the Audrey Hepburn episode to put in a line from 85 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: Nora Efron. She had talked to me about Audrey Hepburn 86 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: at one point, and on our staff all the people 87 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: under the age of thirty had no idea who Nora 88 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: Efron was. I'm telling and these are really look, I 89 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: don't know who Cardi b is, so I'm not judging, 90 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: but like, like so it was so brain These are 91 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: really whip smart with the kids because they're very young. 92 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: But it tells you something. So this next segment kind 93 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: of comes out of that. It's sort of a public service. 94 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: People are dying all the time, which means that the 95 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: list of dead people keeps growing, which means that it's 96 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: harder and harder to keep track of people, and it's 97 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: easier to just confuse different people from the past. So 98 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: I called this segment disambiguation. You know, it's important to 99 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: point out that Audrey Hepburn was not related in any 100 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: way to Katherine Heppern, not related at all. I am 101 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: forever confusing Tennessee frontiersman Davy Crockett with Kentucky pioneer Daniel Boone. 102 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: Don't ask me the difference between the frontiersman and a pioneer. 103 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know they're different. The reason 104 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: they're always confused is that Bess Parker played both of 105 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: them and a coon skin cap, and only Dave Crockett 106 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: wore a coon skin cap. And now I can't tell 107 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: which one is which. Chef Paul Prudome is not all together. Now, 108 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: oh my god, I just got a whole audience to say, 109 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: Don Delouise and Judison they have nothing to do with 110 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: each other. They went to the same hat shop. I 111 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: guess Paul Berdome was a chef. Don Deloise was an 112 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: actor who cooked. Gore Vittall was a stylist of prose 113 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: beat also Soon was a stylist of hair. Neither had 114 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: anything to do with us on jeans. This is Joan 115 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: of Arc the Sainted French heroine of the Hundred Years War. 116 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: This is Joan van Arc, who started on Not So 117 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: Landing for fourteen years. Unless I get sued, I want 118 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: to be really clear. Joan van Arc is alive. At 119 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: least she was right before the show started. Anyways, I 120 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: want to be really clear. Okay. Oh, Molly Pitcher is 121 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: one of the twelve service areas on the New Jersey Turnpike. 122 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: Molly Hatchett is not. John Paul Jones is the father 123 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: of the American Navy. John Paul Jones was the basis 124 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: for led Zeppelin. John Paul Jones is a contestant on 125 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: The Bachelorette. They're all named John Paul Jones. And finally, 126 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: this is so important because people are constantly getting confused. 127 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: The Norman Conquest was in ten sixty six when England 128 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: fell to the Norman's, which should not be confused with 129 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: Norman Bell Love Mr Roper Stanley. Okay, and now I 130 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: am pleased to introduce this evening's special guests. I have 131 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: a special guest for the first Mobituaries Live. Margalite Fox 132 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: has written over four hundred obituaries for The New York Times. 133 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: Margalite is also the author of three books. Her new 134 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: newest release, Excuse Me, should win an Award for Best Title. 135 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: It's called Conan Doyle for the Defense, the true story 136 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: of a sensational British murder, a quest for justice and 137 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: the world's most famous detective writer, Ladies and Gentlemen, margin 138 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: Elite Fox. So, Margarlie, I said that you're retired from 139 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: the New York Times, But in a sense you you'll 140 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: never be retired, because your byline is going to appear 141 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: for a good long while. Because when I retired, very 142 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: very early, I should point out in June I left 143 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: behind in the can I left behind while a case 144 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: of Scotch under my desk. But we're not going to 145 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: talk about that, which I gave to my colleagues because 146 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: they'll need it more than I. But I left behind 147 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: probably between seventy and eighty advents O bits, O bits 148 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: that are written for the undead when they run. Is 149 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: in the lap of the gods. But they I've been 150 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: averaging maybe one by line a month, and so it 151 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: may well be the case, because of course I could 152 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: get hit by a bus tomorrow, that my byelines will 153 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: outlive me. Now, are you allowed to tell us who 154 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: any of the advanced obits are before they've been released. No, 155 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: and then I really would have to kill you all, 156 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: and you all seem like lovely people, so I think 157 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: I won't do that. And is it true that the 158 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: first oh bit you wrote was an advanced O bit? 159 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: The very first advance O bit I wrote was in 160 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: for a very major American scholar and thinker. I can't 161 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: tell you more than that, and blessed him. Not only 162 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: is he still alive, but he's still fiendishly productive. So 163 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: every time he came I had to go into the 164 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: computer and update is obit? Oh? Is it? Is it? 165 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 1: David McCullough, Mo, did you hear what I just said? So? 166 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: I know that it used to be that the obituary 167 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: section was where you were put out to pasture, but 168 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: that was long ago. Right to tell me about how 169 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: you even got to be an obituary writer? Well, the 170 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: child has not been born, And if anyone has such 171 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: a child, please raise your hands and stand up and 172 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: test of I, because I want to hear it. But 173 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm firmly convinced the child has not been born. Who 174 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: comes home from primary school clutching a theme that says 175 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: when I grow up. I want to be an obituary writer. 176 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: That's never going to happen, and so journalists, including me, 177 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: stumble into it quite by accident. And as most said, 178 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: until maybe twenty years ago, the open department on any 179 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: American newspaper was Siberia. It was where they put you 180 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: if they didn't like you but didn't quite have enough 181 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: dirt on you to fire you out right. And it 182 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: was where they put you as the last stop before 183 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: you needed to know that yourself. But why, I mean, 184 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: it seems so satisfying, and I think I've heard you 185 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: say that it's the most purely kind of narrative writing. 186 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: You're reading someone's life from wound to tomb. Absolutely, and 187 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: the dirty little secret is it's the best beat in 188 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: American journalism. I want to ask about the paid oh bit. 189 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 1: We'll be paying attention to the paid o bits, yes 190 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: and no. But the first thing, and now I'm gonna 191 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: to invoke a pop culture reference. I feel like Bert 192 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: Lancaster talking to um Tony Curtis and sweet smell of 193 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: success come here. I want to chestise you. First thing 194 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: you must learn is not to call them moments. I'm 195 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: so sorry you did a very bad thing. Um. They 196 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: are paid death notices, so they are completely un journalistic 197 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: in that if you read them, basically everyone who died 198 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: was a saint. He died doing what he loved, and 199 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: he died surrounded by his adoring family. Could I so, 200 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: could I have a paid a bit excuse me, a 201 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: paid death notice for myself that says that I was 202 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: the president of Gambia. I suspect that would be fact checked. 203 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: The capital is Banjo, by the way. But seriously, the 204 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: paid notices are invaluable to reporters, and we scan that page. 205 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: I have to do it with a magnifying glass now, 206 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: but we scan it like a forty nin prospector panning 207 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: for gold because sometimes, surprisingly often actually families don't quite 208 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: know what they have tell us about alan Abel. Alan 209 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: Abel gave my colleagues and me many a sleepless night. 210 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: Alan Abel, who died last year at the age of 211 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: ninety four, was a professional hoaxer. And he's he started 212 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: early enough that one could at least make a kind 213 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: of scanty living at it. Well, woe betide the New 214 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: York Times in we ran his obituary, and he knew 215 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: exactly the kind of fact checking that The Times would 216 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: be doing, and he anticipated their every move. He had 217 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: a woman weeping playing the part of the grieving widow 218 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: because we're applied to call the family, so she answered 219 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: the phone. He created a fake funeral parlor with its 220 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: own business directory information listing, and had a fake under 221 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: tech taker who answered the phone when the reporter called 222 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: to do that bit of fact checking. He was a 223 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: step ahead of us every inch of the way. And 224 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: so the day after we ran his news over in nineteen, 225 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: we had to run a retraction of that open amazing. 226 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: Now he lived, as you know, America's self appointed court jester. 227 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: He lived into his nineties, and so this was one 228 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: of the people on my dance card about whom I 229 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: needed to do and advance over. You can imagine how 230 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: nervous that made me feel. And I wrote it. I 231 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: did every possible bit of checking that I could at 232 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: the time, and then, because I didn't want to deal 233 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: with it when he actually did die, I retired. But 234 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: he happened to die maybe it's six months after I retired. 235 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: But had I still been on staff then and had 236 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: it fallen to me too, as we say, put a 237 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: top on the story, get the where and the when, 238 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: and the all important confirmation that Mr Smith is really dead. 239 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: I had this fantasy that when the Undertaker's back was turned, 240 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: I would take out a hat, pim lean over the coffin, 241 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: and we have to decide who is playing you in 242 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: the movie, because this has to be a movie. I'm 243 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: more concerned with the placement of obits. Margaretie knows that 244 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: I still have not gotten over the fact that Richard 245 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: Rogers was above the fold on the front page of 246 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: the New York Times, but Oscar Hammerstein was below the fold. 247 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: And this is the long history of the New York Times. 248 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: Anti lyrics bias is just unacceptable. It's we've got to 249 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: put a stop to it. But as you well know, 250 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: these judgments are never absolute. They were only relatives. So 251 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: of course it depended on who and what else was 252 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: on page one on those respective days. Okay, um, Judy 253 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: Garland was below the fold. That really bothered me. Don't 254 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: look at me, moo, it's not on me. When Judy 255 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: Carlin died, I was seven years old. Okay, well, all right, 256 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: Dear Abbey and her sister Anne Landers were both below 257 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: the fold. Do you think they did that intentionally so 258 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: that they would you know his sibling rivalry. They wanted 259 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: to make sure they were treated the same. No, they 260 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: did it to hurt me because they were both mined. 261 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: They were okay, No, dear Abby and Anne Landers, as 262 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: you all know that two dueling advice columnists were identical twins, 263 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: and they had great love for each other, but also 264 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: tremendous rivalry as can happen. So born obviously on the 265 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: same day, married on the same day in a double ceremony. 266 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: They had a double wedding. Yes, I loved weddings. Yeah, 267 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: I remember when remember does anybody remember? It was really 268 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: bad the Brady girls get married. They had like a 269 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: special and I always thought they should like continue with it, 270 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: and when they got to the end of their lives 271 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: they could have the Brady Girls get buried. It has 272 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: real possibilities, but they're the natural constituency audience will probably 273 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: be themselves buried by then, so who's going to watch it? Right? 274 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: A good point I need to work on. The marketing 275 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 1: of this should go back to and and Abbey. Yes, 276 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: Um and Landers died first, and in fact that was 277 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: my first page one. So my husband got the paper 278 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: and said, you know, you're on page one. I said, 279 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: what the hell are you talking about? And indeed that 280 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: was uh and Landers and then dear Abbey died quite 281 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: a number of years later, fairly recently. But that must 282 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: have been a thrill your first page one. It's a 283 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: big deal. It was a lot of fun, high studio 284 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: mo butting in here for a second. Turns out that 285 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: mark Elite's favorite oh bits weren't the ones she wrote 286 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: for the movers and shakers, but for who she calls histories, 287 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: backstage players, the unsung heroes and heroines who changed our 288 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: world in large, small, and almost always delightful ways. To 289 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: honor them, we played a little game with Margarlite that 290 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: involved my producer, Harry would dressing up as the Grim 291 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: Reaper and bringing props on stage two. Well, you'll figure 292 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: it out. Consider this as this is your life and 293 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: oh Bitt's Margalite Fox, you're scaring me, Harry, who is 294 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: the subject of Margalite's first oh bit flashback? Indeed, it 295 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: is stovetop stuffing. It is Ruth scenes right, that is 296 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: Ruth SAMs. And why ordinarily would be we be interested 297 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: in doing the news oh bit, Thank you death? Why 298 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: would the New York Times be interested in doing the 299 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: news oh bit of a relatively unknown home economist from 300 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: Indiana who worked in quite an anonymity for General Foods 301 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: for thirty years. Indeed, Ruth Seems invented a product whose 302 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: patents had the thrilling name of dehydrated bread product or 303 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: something like that, stovetop stuffing, and bless her heart, she 304 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: died in November, so we were able to run the 305 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: story Wednesday of Thanksgiving week. Perfect timing. And as you 306 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: wrote in that two thousand five oh bit, today, Craft Foods, 307 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: which now owns the brand, sells about sixty million boxes 308 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: of it at Thanksgiving. And I had to tell you, 309 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: I am a fan. I love I'm stand. That's what 310 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: they used to say in the ad right soap top. 311 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm staying. Would she have gotten in oh bit had 312 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: she died in July? Absolutely, But we were so giddy 313 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: with the excitement. There are only two times I've run 314 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: around the news room in high excitement, shrieking to anyone 315 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: I knew about the subject of the next day's o bit, 316 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: and this Ruth Seems was one of them. Harry, who 317 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: is the subject of Margalite's next oh bit flashback, It's 318 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: Don Featherstone Adventure of the Pink Flamingo. Thanks, Harry. As 319 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: most said, I've done well over bits, and this is 320 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: one of the ones that made me the most deliriously 321 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: have be And this is what I mean by the 322 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: unsung backstage players. We all know about pink plastic lawn 323 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: flamingos and every bit. All right, let's be honest here. 324 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't leave this room. What happens in Anthebury Park 325 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: stays in Athebury Park. Hands up. If your family had 326 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: one on their lawn, I wish we had. Yeah we didn't, 327 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: but my parents were Communists, they had red flamingos. But 328 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: so it was a phenomenon that literally defined the landscape 329 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: of mid century America. And it comes from somewhere. It 330 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: came from one guy with the perfect name of Don Featherstone, 331 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: who was a sculptor for a plastics company in Massachusetts, 332 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: and in nineteen fifty seven he decided, let's make this fun, 333 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: pink summary product. It was put on the market the 334 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: next year and took off like a pink flamingo. Harry, 335 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: bring out the next subject of Margalite's oh Bit flashback. 336 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: That's right, you're applauding. Andre Cassan, the inventor of the 337 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: etch a sketch. Thank you, Harry. I can't believe I 338 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: just tickled the grim Reekbert. That was really fun. It 339 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: may buy me an extra few years, or it may 340 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: have the reverse effect. That just sketch was invented by 341 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: a French engineer named Andre Casson. Again invented totally by accident. 342 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: He was working in a factory that made something else. 343 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: There were metal filings in the air. They note. He 344 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: noticed the metal filings stuck to a plastic decale for 345 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: a light switch cover he was installing. And if you 346 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: moved your finger or a pencil point on the underside, 347 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: you got a pattern in those metal filings and that 348 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: was all it took. You had a great line. And 349 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: this just you right, so beautifully. First marketed in nineteen sixty, 350 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: the toy, with its rectangular gray screen, red frame and 351 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: two white knobs, quickly became one of the brightest stars 352 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: in the constellation of mid century childhood amusements that included 353 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: Lincoln Logs and the Slinky. And it just takes you back. 354 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: It places it so beautiful, like really beautifully written. Um well, Margolie, 355 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I'm gonna ask you if you'll 356 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: stay for one more. We ended the show by taking 357 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: questions from the audience. Um, first of all, this was fascinating, 358 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: Thank you both. So I was certainly aware of the 359 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: fact that, oh, bits for famous people are written in advance. 360 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: But is there some sort of pattern that gets followed? Um, 361 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: you mentioned her earlier Cardi b gets famous. Do they 362 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: at the New York Times then decide we need to 363 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: have something on file about her? Or do you wait 364 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: until someone is of a certain age. Well, the rather 365 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: dark joke and open departments across america's that if you're 366 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: a rocker, you're going to be dead at seven from 367 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: an odor a plane crash. Sadly, but since our departments 368 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: are small, newsroom budgets are shrinking by the minute, we 369 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: have the resources only to do People who am an 370 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: actuary would also be looking at so it's seriously, we 371 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: there's no hard and fast rule. If we hear someone 372 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: as ill, then of course we will drop everything and 373 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: start in advance. But under normal circumstances, people have long 374 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: lives now, so we wouldn't look at anyone much under 375 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: eight unless they were excellent things going on. Um, well, 376 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: I'm curiously whether you'd want to write your own or 377 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: are you there's somebody that you chose to have right, 378 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: like a doctor, cheating family member? How the hell old 379 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: do you think I am? I guess I would think 380 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: that would be something, you know. I'm like maybe others 381 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: that you would you know, you would think about whead. 382 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: I think at this moment, I'm more likely to commit 383 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: homicide than this will push the podcast back to number one, 384 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: because we wanted it to be true crime, and that's 385 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: where it's all that. I would love if you wrote 386 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: my O bed, I already have the headline selected. It's 387 00:26:48,840 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: just gonna say, no, Mo, that is so good. I 388 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: will oblige you right now. Thank you to Margalite Fox 389 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: so much. Oh no, oh, I write I forgot, I forgot, 390 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: not that this is the reason I'm here. But there's 391 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: also a mobituaries book, everything from the death of dragons 392 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: to the death of different diagnoses. People used to believe 393 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: the dragons were real until and some guy came along 394 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: and said, no, they're made up, and then everyone went, 395 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: holy crap, we thought dragons were real. Sorry. That should 396 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: have issued a spoiler alert for Game of Thrones fans 397 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: on that one, so don't don't let your Game of 398 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: Thrones fans read that chapter. I hope that you will 399 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: get the book or read someone else's copy, and most 400 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: of all, enjoy it and continue listening to the podcast. 401 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: And thank you all for being part of this first 402 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: Mobituaries Live. Next time on Mobituaries. Anna May Wong Hollywood's 403 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: first Chinese American superstar. She was a true pioneer in 404 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: that she couldn't look to anyone and say I want 405 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: to be like this person. She really had to u 406 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: forge her own path. I certainly hope you enjoyed this Mobituary. May. 407 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: I ask you to please rate and review our podcast. 408 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: You can also follow Mobituaries on Facebook and Instagram, and 409 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,239 Speaker 1: you can follow me on Twitter at Morocca. You can 410 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: subscribe to Mobituaries wherever you get your podcasts. This episode 411 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: of Mobituaries was produced by Megan Marcus, Harry Wood, Christopher Kentner, 412 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: and me Morocca. He was edited by Harry Wood and 413 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: engineered by Dan de Zula. Indispensable support from Christina Tompkins, 414 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: Genius Doneski, Richard Rohr, Don Epstein, and everyone at CBS 415 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: News Radio. Special thanks to Jim Norton at the Asbury 416 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: Park House of Independence and Robert Martineau at the Fairfield 417 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: Theater Company for their hospitality and technical support. Our theme 418 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: music is written by Daniel Hart and as always, undying 419 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: thanks to Rand Morrison and John Carp without whom Mobituaries 420 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: couldn't live. Hi, It's mo. If you're enjoying Mobituaries the podcast, 421 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: may I invite you to check out Mobituaries the book. 422 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: It's chock full of stories not in the podcast. Celebrities 423 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: who put their butts on the line, sports teams that 424 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: threw in the towel for good, forgotten fashions, defunct diagnoses, 425 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: presidential candidacies that cratered whole countries that went to put 426 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: and dragons, Yes, dragons, you see. People used to believe 427 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: the dragons will real until just get the book. You 428 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: can order Mobituaries the Book from any online bookseller, or 429 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: stop by your local bookstore and look for me when 430 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: I come to your city. Tour information and lots more 431 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: at mobituaries dot com