Speaker 1: Wind Down with Jann Kramer and Michael Coffman and I'm
Speaker 1: her radio podcast. All right, so there's a lot going
Speaker 1: on in the world, and we're not going to talk
Speaker 1: about it. We're going to talk about everything else.
Speaker 2: Well, not that we're not going to talk about it.
Speaker 2: It's Mark made a really good point in the opening
Speaker 2: of the show. It's like, I don't think people come
Speaker 2: to you for politics.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're under the politics and news category
Speaker 1: of podcasts.
Speaker 2: No, But I will say I will say one thing
Speaker 2: because me and my girlfriends were talking about the other
Speaker 2: day and I was like, you know what this is,
Speaker 2: just like this is why I turn off sometimes the
Speaker 2: news and Instagram, because I like it just stresses me
Speaker 2: out and gives me anxiety. And I'm like, I'm what,
Speaker 2: I'm in control because I'm not in control of anything else.
Speaker 2: I mean, I first and foremost believe God's in control,
Speaker 2: but after that, I'm in control of what I do
Speaker 2: to make myself feel better anxiety, the things that I do,
Speaker 2: like to be a better mom, and me watching the news,
Speaker 2: and you know, I want to be informed, like I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to be arrogant walking around, but I also
Speaker 2: feel like, I know the kind of person I am.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of anxiety and I can't control
Speaker 2: that right now. So I'm going to control what I can,
Speaker 2: and that's you know, being a good mom, showing up,
Speaker 2: doing self care, and trying to stay off you know,
Speaker 2: the news is much as possible. And now someone might
Speaker 2: call me arrogant and white privilege because of that, but
Speaker 2: you know, I just yeah, I know my anxiety level
Speaker 2: of things, and I just I have to just you know,
Speaker 2: control what I can because if not, I'll go crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is one of the reasons why I
Speaker 1: really enjoy not being on social media. Granted, sometimes I
Speaker 1: feel out of the loop when things start to occur,
Speaker 1: but I like it, especially when you get into the
Speaker 1: weeds of things. And so instead of talking about that,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Kim and Kanye for a second. Why
Speaker 1: Because are you really surprised that they're getting divorced?
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel bad for their kids.
Speaker 1: I mean, can you say you're surprised.
Speaker 2: Though, I'm you know who she has on Actually I
Speaker 2: was on her podcast, Laura Walser. Oh yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: just did her podcast a while ago. I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: not if anyone like so there's so many divorces. I'm
Speaker 2: surprised by a few people's divorces this year. But I mean, honestly,
Speaker 2: it's kind of sad, but like nothing surprises me anymore.
Speaker 2: That's a good point, I mean, And that's that's kind
Speaker 2: of sad to think about that, because I'm like, I mean,
Speaker 2: someone could say the same about us if we got divorced.
Speaker 2: Are you surprised?
Speaker 1: Do you know a valid point?
Speaker 2: Like, you're right, Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 1: People probably wouldn't be that surprised.
Speaker 2: No, they'd be like, all right, you know, they tried.
Speaker 1: But they might be more surprised like ten yet from
Speaker 1: round back. Really I forgot about that.
Speaker 2: But no, I mean, you know, again, I feel bad
Speaker 2: for the kids and even though they're bajillionaires, but you
Speaker 2: know that sayesn't you know again, we have friends that
Speaker 2: have all the money in the world, but they're so
Speaker 2: unhappy in their marriage. So it's like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: not about it's not about that.
Speaker 1: And it's not. I'm the older you get, the more
Speaker 1: you realize that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but I mean, if you take into account,
Speaker 2: I'm really not surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if people
Speaker 2: said the same thing about us.
Speaker 1: And I'm with you, you know, speaking to kids. Though.
Speaker 1: We had Jolly come in our bed last night because
Speaker 1: anytime she takes a nap at school, we can tell
Speaker 1: because she does not go to sleep when we put
Speaker 1: her to bed, and she's.
Speaker 2: Just so crabby today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so whiny. Yeah, And so it was
Speaker 1: snowing last night, so we're like, all right, we know
Speaker 1: Jolly's up. We turned all the lights off in our
Speaker 1: room and opened the curtains so we could watch the snow, Like,
Speaker 1: all right, so we'll get Joelye and bring her down.
Speaker 1: So we do that, and we're cuddling and we're like
Speaker 1: sandwiching Jolly, and after three minutes, no, like two, Joe
Speaker 1: Jolie kind of goes dad like yeah, honey, She's like,
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go to my bed. And that's funny
Speaker 1: for us, because, as you guys know, our love languages
Speaker 1: are completely different, and Jolie is my child when it
Speaker 1: comes to that stuff, where like the whole cuddling and
Speaker 1: all that, she's good for like a minute and she's like, nah,
Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm gonna go sleep in my bed. Y'all
Speaker 1: sleep in your bed. I'm out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm like, just somebody cuddle with me.
Speaker 1: Please, That's what I say. You got Jason. He's a
Speaker 1: little cuddle bug, he is.
Speaker 2: But what else is going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're traveling today. We're going to Ohio from my
Speaker 1: grandmother's funeral that passed away on the twenty eighth, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I sat with my motions around it, you know,
Speaker 1: the first twenty four hours when we found out. But
Speaker 1: now I'm I guess I'm kind of nervous for like
Speaker 1: going back, going up there and the emotion's coming back.
Speaker 1: And as Jana knows, she's suffered from dementia for the
Speaker 1: past fifteen years, has lived in assistant living for the
Speaker 1: last twelve, barely remembers, you know, only has like one
Speaker 1: memory that she can remember of the grandkids or you know,
Speaker 1: parents or whatever. And so it's one of those things
Speaker 1: that the call was inevitable, but it doesn't really change
Speaker 1: the impact of it when it finally comes, you know.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I'm a little nervous.
Speaker 2: Which part are you nervous?
Speaker 1: Book? I mean, we haven't traveled since early fall, when
Speaker 1: things were a little calmer, with the whole virus stuff,
Speaker 1: so that I guess a little bit, and then I
Speaker 1: think just the emotions of things. And you know, anytime
Speaker 1: you see someone you love upset too, that's like even
Speaker 1: more of a kill or so it's like seeing my
Speaker 1: mom upset or something like that, and you know, we're
Speaker 1: the only ones able to go, so like you and
Speaker 1: I are basically representing all the grandkids, So that's that's big.
Speaker 1: I think there's some emotion around that too, because I
Speaker 1: wish my cousins could be there because we were all
Speaker 1: really close. I wish, you know, all my aunts and
Speaker 1: uncles could be there, but you know they have their
Speaker 1: reasons that they can't, So I think that's gonna I'm
Speaker 1: nervous and sad for that too, that it's not the
Speaker 1: celebration of life that one hopes for somebody they love,
Speaker 1: and the means of not everyone being able to be there,
Speaker 1: But you know, we're gonna make the most of it,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be able to see some of your
Speaker 1: family too, because it's in Toledo, Ohio, which is close
Speaker 1: to Detroit, so we're kind of bundling the trip up
Speaker 1: with seeing family for positive and negative reasons.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well I'm sorry again. I'm happy that I'm
Speaker 2: going to be able to be there to support you
Speaker 2: in your mom.
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Well, let's take a break and then we're going to
Speaker 2: bring it back up, you know.
Speaker 1: On a high note. We have found another great show
Speaker 1: that we've been watching.
Speaker 2: So we finished Undoing, which was so good, slightly triggering,
Speaker 2: but so good. Yeah, and now we're on Flight Attendant,
Speaker 2: which is so good. It reminds me of Dead to me.
Speaker 1: Very similar, yeah, very yeah, in very similar ways. Definitely,
Speaker 1: I can see how they're how they're the same. It's surprise.
Speaker 1: It's because neither one of us hadn't necessarily opinion of
Speaker 1: Kallik Cucko.
Speaker 2: I personally never liked thirty What is that? Thirty Rock? No,
Speaker 2: Big Big Bang, didn't. I just didn't. I didn't, I no, No,
Speaker 2: I didn't like her in it. I didn't like the show.
Speaker 2: So but now I like, like, Osh, she doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1: I think she's great in it.
Speaker 2: Oh, she's awesome. She honestly, she reminds me of a
Speaker 2: Christine Applegate. It's very dead to me kind of feel.
Speaker 2: And then we also we have our side stuff too.
Speaker 2: So I watched Pretty Little Things, which is a ballet
Speaker 2: show but it's like dark and loved it. And then Bridgerton,
Speaker 2: which I binged in one day, so steep me. It's
Speaker 2: like soft p O r N. I can't say the word.
Speaker 2: And it's I mean, it's incredible. It's like Pride and
Speaker 2: Prejudice on like viagra.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You described it to me saying, is the fifty
Speaker 1: shades of gray and Pride and prejudice, Pride and Prejudice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so good. Oh my god, it was so good.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, did you try it?
Speaker 1: Look? Pride and Prejudice is one of Jan's favorite movies
Speaker 1: of all time. And I fall asleep and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: not a fall asleep during a movie kind of guy.
Speaker 1: That thing bores me to death, and so I'm with you.
Speaker 3: I hate period pieces.
Speaker 4: I hate powdered wigs, I hate the big bell dresses.
Speaker 3: I hate all of it.
Speaker 4: I watched the trailer for Bridget and I thought, Nope,
Speaker 4: not for me. But everyone's raving about it. I think
Speaker 4: I have to try it.
Speaker 2: You have to try it. But here's the thing I
Speaker 2: will say. I don't think it's for men. I think
Speaker 2: it's for women, but I think it's very bad on
Speaker 2: like my marriage and like those kind of shows, because
Speaker 2: every show that I watch is like the lust and
Speaker 2: the love and like wanting that like attention and having
Speaker 2: that like immediately, and I'm just like, this is like
Speaker 2: me and my girlfriend were talking about, like this is
Speaker 2: terrible for our marriages because we're just like, ah, we
Speaker 2: want that again.
Speaker 1: We want that mister Darcy.
Speaker 3: Well, the Duke.
Speaker 2: It's just like and of course that night, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm like, might gets home from a guy's night and
Speaker 2: I'm like, baby, come cuddle with me, and you know,
Speaker 2: he ends up not cuddling with me, and I'm like, ugh,
Speaker 2: I just want a man's ye around me. But I
Speaker 2: think it truly is like it's like a gossip Girl's
Speaker 2: fifty Shades of Gray.
Speaker 1: You've been binging more shows, I think than I have recently. Yep,
Speaker 1: you have. Yeah, she's basically confiscated my iPad. Anytime I
Speaker 1: go and look for it, she's got it somewhere.
Speaker 2: But no, it's really good. Like I think, Mark, you
Speaker 2: should definitely watch it. Don't let your daughters near it,
Speaker 2: I mean not don't watch it with a parent, like
Speaker 2: if you're older in your twenties thirties, don't watch it
Speaker 2: with a parent. I mean she's basically getting you know
Speaker 2: what on like the Stairs, Like it's just like it's intense,
Speaker 2: so it's it's almost like, I mean, it's hot. It
Speaker 2: makes you like your heart.
Speaker 1: How it's a period piece, so what they're wearing, like you.
Speaker 2: Don't just don't understand. It's the connection that the duke
Speaker 2: and the girl have. But everything is so overly sexualized
Speaker 2: right now on TV. I mean it's sex scene. It's
Speaker 2: like the one show that I watched, I was like,
Speaker 2: why do you have to have so many sex scenes
Speaker 2: like it? I feel like everything's just so overly sexualized
Speaker 2: that it's kind of getting annoying.
Speaker 1: I actually have a take on that. Okay, I've found
Speaker 1: myself and I don't know if this necessarily comes from
Speaker 1: a little bit of obviously my recovery stuff or whatever.
Speaker 1: Because we're seeing any of that in shows and movies.
Speaker 1: It doesn't affect me like that doesn't like oh, like
Speaker 1: that doesn't get my addict think it doesn't, so, but
Speaker 1: I do. I have found myself more uncomfortable, and I
Speaker 1: think maybe it is because of shows. How sexualized? Are
Speaker 1: they are? Where if I'm watching a show or a
Speaker 1: movie by myself and I'm like, okay, Like I watched
Speaker 1: a Basic Instinct for the first time, right, like a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, never seen it, right because when
Speaker 1: it came out, we were just too young, and I
Speaker 1: just haven't never watched it. That movie is effing intense, okay,
Speaker 1: and the sex things are intense, and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: all right, it's it's been like a minute, like I
Speaker 1: get it, and I would hit like the you know,
Speaker 1: fast forward ten seconds, fifteen seconds until it's done, because
Speaker 1: I'm like, this isn't this does nothing for me. I
Speaker 1: want like get back to the story of the action.
Speaker 1: I want to know what happens. Did she really kill them?
Speaker 1: And all this stuff? And so to your point, I mean,
Speaker 1: granted that was movie in the nineties, but still things
Speaker 1: I've watched now, I'm just like, Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2: But as a woman too though, I'm looking at it like, yes,
Speaker 2: I love the connection. But then at the same time,
Speaker 2: I'm like, does every single episode have to have this? Now?
Speaker 2: Granted it did something for me, I loved it, but
Speaker 2: not not when I turn on the next show and
Speaker 2: it's like god, like, okay, can I have something else
Speaker 2: that isn't just like sex like every single episode.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, here's the thought for twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3: Might be time to get Jane of her own iPad.
Speaker 1: A But here's the thing. Now, I'll get it. I'll
Speaker 1: get it, and she'll never use it. No, She'll still
Speaker 1: like use mine and then and I'll get up bring
Speaker 1: it home and be like why did you spend money
Speaker 1: on this? And so it's I'm gonna lose lose here,
Speaker 1: Mark okay, and she's the world's world charging things. When
Speaker 1: she's done.
Speaker 2: Oh, he gets so mad at me, and I'm like, chill,
Speaker 2: just plug it in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you need it right then.
Speaker 2: Like this morning, I wanted to watch By the way,
Speaker 2: I'll never run without the iPad because I was so
Speaker 2: bored today at my run. So I'm like because I
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's like oh, so was because it's
Speaker 2: thirty minutes up yet. But I was like, hey, can
Speaker 2: I use your iPad? And he's like, well, I have
Speaker 2: to charge it, and I'm like, well, how much is
Speaker 2: left on there? He's like thirty percent and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh I can That's perfect. That'll give me enough time
Speaker 2: to watch and he's like, but but like it just
Speaker 2: gave you anxiety. I'm like, who.
Speaker 1: Cares because we're traveling today.
Speaker 2: Oh, then you just charge it after my run and
Speaker 2: he gets mad at me when I don't charge it
Speaker 2: Jolie's iPad, he gets mad at you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's right. Joey comes and wakes me up
Speaker 1: at six in the morning, dead iPad. Oh sorry, Mommy
Speaker 1: didn't charge it. Here's mine, and then that one's dead,
Speaker 1: and then everything's dead.
Speaker 3: I have two batteries, like just for Allison's bone. Her
Speaker 3: phone's always dying, and I'm like, these are always charged,
Speaker 3: ready to go because she can charge it up anywhere
Speaker 3: she is. But one thing I do.
Speaker 1: Right in's sane. I'm like, like, if we went on
Speaker 1: trips with it, when we go on trips with the
Speaker 1: kids again, yes, Jana probably plans so much stuff around it,
Speaker 1: but we would not survive if it wasn't for dad.
Speaker 1: Because I got the cords, I got the iPads, I
Speaker 1: got the headphones, I got batteries, I got everything for
Speaker 1: the trip. I got planned packed ready to go, ge
Speaker 1: have it prepared. Everything's fully charged. If it was Janna
Speaker 1: in that category. I think this is women thing too.
Speaker 1: Men with our stuff is charged, our stuff is ready
Speaker 1: to go. Women be like, wait, where are my headphones?
Speaker 3: Wait?
Speaker 1: Wait, this isn't charge.
Speaker 2: I don't have Oh I'm sorry because we were so
Speaker 2: busy packing our clothes, kids, clothes, your clothes, probably doing
Speaker 2: the laundry, everything else that I'm sorry we don't have.
Speaker 2: We don't give up flying. Guess what freedom.
Speaker 1: About You can buy. You can buy the electronic Guess
Speaker 1: what happens on the airplane. You can't get new clothes
Speaker 1: on the airplane.
Speaker 2: But guess what time out.
Speaker 1: You don't need clothes on airplanes, but need you do need.
Speaker 1: You need something to watch, You need something to entertain yourself.
Speaker 1: You need something to entertain your kids. And extra clothes.
Speaker 2: Okay, you've said your piece on the plane, what do
Speaker 2: you do? I'm constantly like, okay, Mommy's like mommy, mommy, mommy,
Speaker 2: I want to snack. I'm like, oh yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: here's a snack, Mommy, Mommy, I'm thirsty. Okay, hey I
Speaker 2: got a peep Okay. And you know what Michael's doing.
Speaker 2: He's sitting there on his freaking iPad. The entire flight
Speaker 2: I'm like, can you help, please? Just on his iPad?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no iPads for anybody on the plane,
Speaker 2: like none, Like there will be no iPad roll for
Speaker 2: just Jolie. Like Joli and Jason have him fine, but Dad,
Speaker 2: he's not allowed to have his iPad. It's like he
Speaker 2: gets annoyed. You get so annoyed when I tap on
Speaker 2: your shoulder when I.
Speaker 1: Talked about this, I started the video from we talked
Speaker 1: about this when we were on the podcast in La.
Speaker 1: We're in the studio and you tap me. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: what what do you want?
Speaker 2: I've got two kids. They need help. I need help.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, like ones like ah, and you're like enjoying
Speaker 2: whatever show that you're watching. I don't know, rewatching Dexter
Speaker 2: for the twentieth freaking time, or the office, Like like,
Speaker 2: help put your iPad down. I don't get to have
Speaker 2: a fun free flight.
Speaker 1: Can't you see I'm busy.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: We have a guest on today that I'm very intrigued
Speaker 1: and excited to talk to.
Speaker 2: I kind of feel like you're going to fight with her,
Speaker 2: just like you fought with me. Gonna be a little
Speaker 2: honest on that, because I was reading The Breakdown, but
Speaker 2: I read.
Speaker 1: More on her on her home web page, and it
Speaker 1: comes off.
Speaker 2: Not as not as like, well, isn't doesn't she not
Speaker 2: believe in AA programs?
Speaker 1: It didn't so on the Breakdown it seemed that way.
Speaker 1: On her website, it the way she painted the picture
Speaker 1: was like more of it wasn't for.
Speaker 2: Her, which, oh, okay, I have a lot of friends there
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: I respect that. Yeah, So I'm just interested. So her
Speaker 1: name's Hollywhittaker, and she wrote a book Quit Like a Woman.
Speaker 2: Okay, Setigan used her actually to stop drinking.
Speaker 1: She did, and so you know, her her following around
Speaker 1: this this concept is really growing, you know, especially with women.
Speaker 1: So I'm interested to get her on, obviously, me being
Speaker 1: someone who's in recovery and works a twelve step program
Speaker 1: on her takes, you know, on the differences and why
Speaker 1: she didn't get into it, everything like that. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: she has a podcast, she's got a book, she has
Speaker 1: a blog. You know, she usually work in healthcare, healthcare business.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited to get her on and kind of
Speaker 1: dive deep on a subject that I'm obviously very passionate,
Speaker 1: passionate and bias towards m But before.
Speaker 2: We bring her in, let's talk about three day Rule.
Speaker 2: That's right, Well, are you recently divorcement need some help
Speaker 2: getting back out there?
Speaker 1: I don't, but I'm sure some do.
Speaker 2: Well. It can be hard and you may not know
Speaker 2: how to start and where to look, but we know
Speaker 2: the perfect matchmakers that can help you find your perfect
Speaker 2: match at three Day Rule. If I see you on there,
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Speaker 1: So sign up today using our length three day rule
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Speaker 1: slash iHeart. You'll thank us and.
Speaker 2: Let us know if there's a match made in heaven.
Speaker 2: Before we get Holly on, Mark just said something to
Speaker 2: me and I'm like, wait, did we have this conversation?
Speaker 2: Will you say what you just said?
Speaker 4: Well, with Holly coming on, I don't know if it's
Speaker 4: relevant to her conversation because she's more about quitting alcohol.
Speaker 3: I was just mentioning that I personally have never been
Speaker 3: drunk in my life.
Speaker 4: Easton also never has drunk in his life, and so
Speaker 4: I thought, if it comes up, if you need it,
Speaker 4: there you go.
Speaker 2: And I haven't either, So really never been drunk.
Speaker 1: Man, Well, aren't I just the sinner here?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: I my mom she'd let me have a wine cooler
Speaker 2: when I was like fourteen fifteen, so I never felt
Speaker 2: like I had to hide and abuse. And I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: that's what it tastes like. Great, and then I never
Speaker 2: you know, I was the one always driving my drunk
Speaker 2: friends in high school. I didn't have my college years,
Speaker 2: and I just saw them like, why would you want
Speaker 2: to get drunk? Like you're puking, you look miserable, Like.
Speaker 4: The idea of somebody the next day telling me what
Speaker 4: I did the night before is my worst nightmare?
Speaker 2: That sounds awful, And Mike would Mike would say this though,
Speaker 2: he would say, well that's blackout drunk. It's different. He's like,
Speaker 2: you've been drunk. I'm like, I've never had the spins.
Speaker 2: I've never like, I get like, I get happy like,
Speaker 2: but I've never I've never spun. I've never like, I
Speaker 2: have my two drinks and I'm done.
Speaker 3: She've been buzzed. And that's about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been I've been a little buzzy a time
Speaker 2: or two, but I've never been drunk.
Speaker 3: And how often do you drink wine?
Speaker 2: Well, so I'm I'm stopping as much as I used to.
Speaker 2: So I've I used to drink pretty much daily, but
Speaker 2: now I'm doing three to four days and I'll have
Speaker 2: like because they say for women, seven drinks in a
Speaker 2: week is average. So now I'm like, I'm just picking
Speaker 2: like three days out of the week and I'll have
Speaker 2: like six drinks. Well I'm not six drinks, but six total,
Speaker 2: like out of the wake. So I'm just and plus
Speaker 2: I'm like, I have a wine coming out, Like I
Speaker 2: love wine, Like I'm obsessed with wine. It's my wind up,
Speaker 2: I mean wine down, Like my new wine, one Brick,
Speaker 2: is coming out this week. Like it's just you know.
Speaker 1: I I banned one Brick.
Speaker 2: Just I love wine, but I also like I don't
Speaker 2: abuse it, like I don't I if we go to
Speaker 2: like we just went to the Titans game, and it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't drink because I want to get drunk or
Speaker 2: to fit, Like I don't. I like good wine. So
Speaker 2: and I've and when we go on vacations, like I
Speaker 2: don't get a strawberry this or whatever. Like I'm just like,
Speaker 2: I'll have a nice glass of wine at dinner because
Speaker 2: I can't drink crappy wine like I just like the
Speaker 2: taste of good wine.
Speaker 4: Well, Holly's ready, so we can bring her in the differences.
Speaker 4: I don't even know what wine tastes like.
Speaker 1: So there's you know, are you.
Speaker 2: Like sober or did you just never ever I've never.
Speaker 3: Even tried it. I don't even know what taste like.
Speaker 3: I don't even I've just stayed away my whole life.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's bring in Holly and get this convo started. Hello,
Speaker 2: Hey Holly, Hey Holly, how you doing. Hi?
Speaker 4: You good.
Speaker 5: I'm hanging in there. How are you both?
Speaker 1: We're great, we're doing great.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So recently you've had a you know, a more
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, you know, people know who you are.
Speaker 2: But with Chrissy Teagan saying that you know your book
Speaker 2: helped her get sober, I mean that's got to be
Speaker 2: That's got to be pretty cool someone with as much
Speaker 2: notoriety as she has to talk about your book. I
Speaker 2: mean that's got to feel pretty good.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it feels pretty extraordinary and unreal.
Speaker 6: Actually, I've been doing this since I started talking about
Speaker 6: my own sobriety in twenty thirteen in a really different world,
Speaker 6: and my thoughts about it at the time, I mean
Speaker 6: they were pretty they're echoed.
Speaker 5: Now throughout people's recovery.
Speaker 6: There's a different story that we're building about what it
Speaker 6: means to stop drinking, and so it's real true validation.
Speaker 6: I think of the work that a lot of people
Speaker 6: need to change the narrative on what quitting drinking means.
Speaker 1: So Holly, also, I want to ask, because I don't
Speaker 1: know much of our story that you know, but I'm
Speaker 1: in a twelve step program in recovery for sex addiction,
Speaker 1: and I've been in the program for since twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: You know something that I follow that has worked for me.
Speaker 1: But I totally understand after being in it, how someone
Speaker 1: can have a mindset of maybe it's just not for me,
Speaker 1: or they want to find other ways. And as you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've been in the rooms to try to
Speaker 1: figure all this out, they pretty much don't say there's
Speaker 1: any other way. They just say there's twelve steps, right,
Speaker 1: And so I'm interested, like, what was that point for
Speaker 1: you that you're like, Okay, this isn't for me. I
Speaker 1: got to find a different way.
Speaker 5: I think it's real interesting.
Speaker 6: So my entry into this was I was given a
Speaker 6: twelve step program as an option when I first went
Speaker 6: to a doctor in twenty twelve, and then I had
Speaker 6: severe bolimia and also alcoholics disorder and also substance use
Speaker 6: disorder pot so.
Speaker 5: It was a non starter for me.
Speaker 6: I just you know, I couldn't go there and I
Speaker 6: didn't want that. And then I ended up finding almost
Speaker 6: like a third door because I was I self diagnosed
Speaker 6: as having borderline personality disorder, which also said you need
Speaker 6: to stop drinking, which I want to be clear, I
Speaker 6: didn't have. But a lot of times there's different mental
Speaker 6: health issues that are replicated by addiction or exacerbated. But
Speaker 6: for me, I found a different way in I read
Speaker 6: a book called The Easy Way to Control Alcohol, which
Speaker 6: really almost broke down the idea of alcoholism, you know,
Speaker 6: versus like alcoholism as a I think some people have
Speaker 6: versus alcoholism thing.
Speaker 5: Maybe most people you know shouldn't be consuming the way
Speaker 5: we do in the West and.
Speaker 2: Now throughout the world.
Speaker 6: But it was just I had a very different in
Speaker 6: and I formed a set of beliefs around myself, you know,
Speaker 6: and also alcohol. And then and I tried to quit
Speaker 6: drinking for six months and it was such a terrifying experience,
Speaker 6: and I by the time on my sobriety date, which
Speaker 6: is April fourteen, twenty thirteen, I really had I had
Speaker 6: come to terms with so much, and I also felt
Speaker 6: like I really needed support and to face it. So
Speaker 6: I actually did go. That's when I went to AA.
Speaker 6: One of my friend's fathers called me, and he been
Speaker 6: in AA for twenty years, and he was just like, go,
Speaker 6: you know, And so I went. And what I found
Speaker 6: was having had an experience where I had developed a
Speaker 6: different belief system and was actually really secure in my
Speaker 6: own relationship in that I didn't want to drink. And
Speaker 6: also I felt that a lot of the conversations I
Speaker 6: was having in the rooms were running counter to that.
Speaker 6: I had people come up to me after the meeting
Speaker 6: and say I would drink again if I didn't get
Speaker 6: a sponsor, I would drink again if I didn't go
Speaker 6: to more meetings. And what had really been so important
Speaker 6: to me in my own recovery was moving that kind
Speaker 6: of idea out of my mind that I would have
Speaker 6: to constantly be vigilant of my alcoholism to not drink.
Speaker 6: I had a very different belief set around that, and
Speaker 6: so I felt almost more threatened in my sobriety and
Speaker 6: that experience than I did without going to AA. So
Speaker 6: I stopped going about three months after I got sober.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting, you know, I can understand. I can
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying at the end there about people.
Speaker 1: It almost feels like a codependency at times, right, like
Speaker 1: like that people may have to the program or have
Speaker 1: to a sponsor, have the people around them, where I
Speaker 1: understand you need the support because it's all about right
Speaker 1: reconnecting with people and getting out to yourself and everything.
Speaker 1: But I do share that mindset with you where I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm not the same in that where I feel like
Speaker 1: if I don't call someone right now, right the second,
Speaker 1: I'm going to act out or I'm going to do whatever.
Speaker 1: So I definitely agree with you on that.
Speaker 2: Well, I think too, Like I'll just interject, like when
Speaker 2: you were trying to find a sponsor, like one of
Speaker 2: them was so much like there was a kid to
Speaker 2: call every day, and you're just like that's not going
Speaker 2: to help me from not doing it, Like it's it's
Speaker 2: just finding the right person for you that's going to
Speaker 2: help guide but also work the steps that because you
Speaker 2: do believe in the program.
Speaker 6: You know, yeah, yeah, And I think that's what's so
Speaker 6: important is I think that there's so many ways to recover.
Speaker 6: It's recovery is as unique to each individual, like there
Speaker 6: is no I don't know anybody that has been the
Speaker 6: exact same things.
Speaker 5: And I think that.
Speaker 6: We are so afraid to explore other options and to
Speaker 6: validate other options. And so I think, you know, from
Speaker 6: what I know now and how many people I know
Speaker 6: that are in recovery from all from all things, that
Speaker 6: there's there has to be room for for so many
Speaker 6: different ways to exist.
Speaker 2: So I mean, your book titles quit quit like a Woman?
Speaker 2: What is that? How do you quit like a woman?
Speaker 2: I'm curious.
Speaker 6: I think the book is really meant to acknowledge the
Speaker 6: experience of women and which is extremely unique. And we're
Speaker 6: sick for a lot of reasons that that men, you know,
Speaker 6: the same way that black women are sick for a
Speaker 6: lot of reasons that white women will never understand. But
Speaker 6: we're sick for a lot of specific things, and then
Speaker 6: there's also this very specific culture where we are marketing
Speaker 6: it to each other constantly on social media as you know,
Speaker 6: the way through, and this is echoed like yesterday, Julian
Speaker 6: Michaels posted time of death for dry January as the
Speaker 6: moment that the capital has breached, and then you just
Speaker 6: see thousands of women saying drinking whiskey now. And so
Speaker 6: we're in this bubble where we're constantly normalizing these drugs
Speaker 6: to get through life. And so the book really specifically
Speaker 6: speaks to what the how this came about, how we
Speaker 6: became the marketers of alcohol to each other, and the
Speaker 6: normalization of constant use for mothering, for getting through work
Speaker 6: pretty stressing. And then it also really specifically addresses that
Speaker 6: we're coming to recovery often with deflated egos, the lack
Speaker 6: of you know, sense of self, with the lack of
Speaker 6: being able to move freely in the world without having
Speaker 6: to defend ourselves, and really starts from that point of
Speaker 6: what we need in order to build ourselves up instead
Speaker 6: of you know, for me, when I was getting sober,
Speaker 6: a lot of this was don't trust yourself, trust other people.
Speaker 6: You know you're wrong, your mind is lying to you
Speaker 6: and don't you know your ego is you know, that's
Speaker 6: your ego talking, or that's your alcoholism talking. And really
Speaker 6: what the book starts with is just you know what
Speaker 6: most women are coming in the door with is, which
Speaker 6: is like a cratered ego. And there has to be
Speaker 6: the sense of really building up this this belief that
Speaker 6: we can trust ourselves and that we can develop a
Speaker 6: sense of ego and that it's not wrong or our
Speaker 6: addiction talking, but almost what we need in order to
Speaker 6: really exist fully for sure.
Speaker 2: I guess, like my question to you is, you know
Speaker 2: I've I've never been drunk. We just talked about that before.
Speaker 2: But I love wine, like I mean, I have a
Speaker 2: wine coming out this week, like it's it is my thing.
Speaker 2: And I do like, you know, I don't I know
Speaker 2: where you know, nights that I'm like, okay, if we're
Speaker 2: fighting really bad, like I'm not going to drown it out,
Speaker 2: you know with the wine. And I have to talk
Speaker 2: myself almost sometimes out of that. But I do, like
Speaker 2: after a long day with the kids, like sometimes I'm
Speaker 2: like I do want that and I don't want to
Speaker 2: feel bad for it, you know, because it is and
Speaker 2: I'm not abusing it, and so that's why I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, I it's like I totally hear what you're saying.
Speaker 2: But then I'm also on the other side. I'm like,
Speaker 2: but it's also okay that I do this because I'm
Speaker 2: not abusing it in the way where I'm getting drunk.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, but I also, like, I enjoy wine.
Speaker 2: I enjoy the you know, the taste of good wine,
Speaker 2: and like I'll never just go to a ran the
Speaker 2: place and be like, you know, if we go to
Speaker 2: a bar, like I don't drink bar wine, Like I
Speaker 2: like the like the real nice wine, And so you know,
Speaker 2: I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't
Speaker 2: want women also to feel like that that's not okay
Speaker 2: to like all that joy, Yeah.
Speaker 6: Right, Like women don't need any more shame or guilt
Speaker 6: for the choices that they make. And you know you
Speaker 6: just said, like I unlined with a cheeseburger and wined
Speaker 6: with a bowl of pasta and sugar and gluten and
Speaker 6: all of you know, the things that you know have
Speaker 6: now been crossed off the list of what we're able
Speaker 6: to enjoy, what we should enjoy, And so that this
Speaker 6: really isn't you know. The way I always pull it
Speaker 6: back is there's a thing called informed consent, and informed
Speaker 6: consent is really what was driving In terms of like
Speaker 6: opioid over prescription. There was no informed consent about the
Speaker 6: addictive nature of it, and the same goes for like
Speaker 6: Milltown or value when it was over prescribed.
Speaker 5: Our venzes were overprescribed. We we don't know, we don't fully.
Speaker 6: Understand the consequences of the substance that we're ingesting, and
Speaker 6: we're not able to make informed decisions. And when you
Speaker 6: couple with that the marketing that this is and the
Speaker 6: normalization of the marketing of it, we're not actually moving
Speaker 6: forward with the full set of facts. And so the
Speaker 6: way that I really what I really come back to
Speaker 6: is that it's about choice, and it's about informed choice.
Speaker 6: And most of us don't understand that the actual full
Speaker 6: negative impact of alcohol, and we don't think of it
Speaker 6: as a drug. And because we don't think of it
Speaker 6: as a drug, we also don't think of it as
Speaker 6: something that could potentially cause us harm. And so it's
Speaker 6: just like we have the full set of facts around
Speaker 6: cigarettes now we know what they do to us, we
Speaker 6: still don't really have we're not working with the full
Speaker 6: set of facts around alcohol and that like it's linkage
Speaker 6: to cancer, and that it's linkage to hormonal imbalance, sleep,
Speaker 6: sleep and balances, and so we're pushing this is, like
Speaker 6: this is how you to sleep or this is and
Speaker 6: we're not necessarily going into that with eyes wide open
Speaker 6: around what it actually does to us. And the list
Speaker 6: is pretty long of the negative impact. So I know
Speaker 6: what sugar does to me, you know, and so I'm
Speaker 6: consuming it with a full set of knowledge that it
Speaker 6: causes inflammation, that it causes blood sugar millance like whatever.
Speaker 6: But we don't have that with alcohol.
Speaker 1: What's your you know, quit like a woman, what's the
Speaker 1: whole foundational belief? Because you know, in twelve steps it's
Speaker 1: all about higher power, living in consultation, connection and not
Speaker 1: living in isolation, right to get away from yourself. So
Speaker 1: what is that like for in that book? And what
Speaker 1: can people expect when they read it, Like, what's the
Speaker 1: foundation for, you know, for being sober and getting away
Speaker 1: from those things?
Speaker 6: I think first is what I was just talking about,
Speaker 6: which is that like information is so important around recovery, addiction,
Speaker 6: the substance. But I think mostly it's about holistic, unique
Speaker 6: paths to recovery and empowered paths to recovery. So I
Speaker 6: would say, like I run a company. We run. I
Speaker 6: run a company that helps people move through recovery, and
Speaker 6: our foundational belief is that we put people at the
Speaker 6: center of it, which means that whatever whatever someone does
Speaker 6: needs to be designed around their unique life, right, it
Speaker 6: needs to be designed around you know, what social oppressions
Speaker 6: are coming in with what like deficits and you know,
Speaker 6: physiology or nutrition or what what whatever. There's a full
Speaker 6: spectrum of a human that walks through the door anytime
Speaker 6: you know, you're looking to enter a path of recovery.
Speaker 6: And really we drink or we drug, or we escape
Speaker 6: for so many different reasons, and all those reasons really
Speaker 6: have to be brought into it.
Speaker 5: So you know, AA or a twelve.
Speaker 6: Step program absolutely focuses on community, It focuses on storytelling,
Speaker 6: it focuses on higher power, it focuses on you know,
Speaker 6: there's there's very specific things those are not excluded from
Speaker 6: the path, right, But I think it's a matter of
Speaker 6: also bringing in other things, like you know, balancing our neurochemicals,
Speaker 6: or leaving an abusive relationship or finding purpose and meaning
Speaker 6: in our lives, and so it expands to bring all
Speaker 6: of the things you're in a twelve step program, but
Speaker 6: I guarantee you that you're also doing other things for
Speaker 6: your self development. That this is one facet of it.
Speaker 6: And that's really how the book conceptualizes recovery, which is
Speaker 6: has to include the whole of your being, not just
Speaker 6: your spiritual path, not just your fellowship and community, not
Speaker 6: just your amends and your service, but really so many
Speaker 6: different things.
Speaker 1: You know, I can respect and appreciate that because I've
Speaker 1: told people this, I've told Jana this and other brothers
Speaker 1: in the program. Is you know, I went to impatient
Speaker 1: treatment for sixty days and which not everyone is able
Speaker 1: to do. And honestly, I have a lot of respect
Speaker 1: for people that have gotten sober and not gone to
Speaker 1: impatient because the amount of work, therapeutic work that you
Speaker 1: do that's right and patient. For me, I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been able to get sober if I didn't do that,
Speaker 1: if I didn't find out all that inside of me
Speaker 1: and try to purge and start figuring out where everything
Speaker 1: came from, which it sounds like I make up is
Speaker 1: kind of like what you're doing where it's like, it's
Speaker 1: so much more than just showing up and being a
Speaker 1: part of a community and stuff like that. So again,
Speaker 1: I commend you for that, especially being someone that you
Speaker 1: know is in a twelve step program. But do you
Speaker 1: ever if you have a client or someone that you're
Speaker 1: working with and maybe something just isn't working, do you
Speaker 1: ever suggest twelve steps?
Speaker 5: Is that ever we suggest it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: We suggest everybody try everything and they make up their
Speaker 6: own mind about it.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 6: So there's people that you know, we use our program
Speaker 6: that are also part of the fellowship. There's people that
Speaker 6: have moved, you know, through it and don't find it
Speaker 6: useful anymore, or felt it couldn't work and have left it.
Speaker 6: There's people that are afraid to try it, that this
Speaker 6: is a soft landing that then maybe progresses and evolves
Speaker 6: into their wanting to try it. And so I think
Speaker 6: it's just there's it's it's again, I think we've done
Speaker 6: ourselves such a disservice by saying there's either just this
Speaker 6: one place over there and it's either good or bad,
Speaker 6: and then there's these other things, and really there's there's
Speaker 6: a whole constellation of ways for people to find themselves.
Speaker 6: And I think it's really important that people understand some things,
Speaker 6: like they can pick and choose, and they can outgrow
Speaker 6: or they can grow into and so it's it's so
Speaker 6: empowering when we're able to really look at this and
Speaker 6: be able, you know, first of all, to acknowledge every
Speaker 6: other person's choices. We're so different, you know, you and
Speaker 6: I are so different and not the same things are
Speaker 6: going to work. And at the same time, we've done
Speaker 6: this disservice to ourselves by thinking that that if I
Speaker 6: choose a different way, it's an affront to your choice,
Speaker 6: or it means your choice is wrong.
Speaker 5: Your choice is Like that's just not the truth.
Speaker 6: When I was critical, I've written a lot about AA
Speaker 6: and my closest friends are you know in AA.
Speaker 5: And like it's just it doesn't undermine their choice. It
Speaker 5: doesn't make what they've done any less or any more.
Speaker 6: And I think that we had we do have a
Speaker 6: habit of saying, well, this.
Speaker 5: Reflects on your choice, reflects on me, and that's just
Speaker 5: not the case. Like we have to support each other.
Speaker 5: I don't care what you do like I should.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean I I totally
Speaker 2: hear you on that and I took a lot from that,
Speaker 2: even just from the other side, Like you know, I
Speaker 2: have friends that go to alan On and it's I mean,
Speaker 2: it's their their place that they're able to heal. I mean,
Speaker 2: we just I just had the conversation with a few
Speaker 2: friends the other day. But like when I tried essen On,
Speaker 2: it just wasn't for me, Like I didn't I tried.
Speaker 2: I was like, I was angry. I was I didn't
Speaker 2: like it at all. And it's like, yeah, I found
Speaker 2: my piece is through my therapist, and I found a
Speaker 2: friend that she sponsors a bunch of people. I don't
Speaker 2: really call her my sponsor, but whenever I get that angst,
Speaker 2: I you know, I either call her or I call
Speaker 2: my therapists. And because every time I'm like, well, I'm
Speaker 2: told that I have to go to Essenon if I'm
Speaker 2: a sex addict's wife. So I go and I sit
Speaker 2: in his rooms and I'm like, I'm angry at my
Speaker 2: husband right now, I hate myself and I don't like
Speaker 2: it here. And I leave crying and just like depressed
Speaker 2: and defeated, and I'm like, wait a minute, like I
Speaker 2: it's okay to not be in the program, and still
Speaker 2: be doing your work, so I can get it from
Speaker 2: like valid too.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's valid, it doesn't mean you're not doing it right.
Speaker 6: And that was the thing I had to really overcome,
Speaker 6: was I got I had a lot of people who
Speaker 6: just expected, oh, if you have an addiction, you do AA,
Speaker 6: if you have an addiction, you do NA or essay
Speaker 6: or whatever, any of the millions of dulls to problems
Speaker 6: that there now, and I I just it was so invalid.
Speaker 6: I was like, but wait a minute, I'm actually taking
Speaker 6: I'm the one taking the steps to do something about this,
Speaker 6: and any step I'm taking is the work. And we
Speaker 6: do have this idea that if you're not doing this
Speaker 6: one thing, then it's it's you, you know, not doing
Speaker 6: your part and your part of the cup read you know,
Speaker 6: be it a you know, a wife of a sex
Speaker 6: adductor or a you know, daughter of you know, someone
Speaker 6: with a drinking problem, so it's you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, so is with with kind of the program,
Speaker 1: you know, the customizable program approach, holistic approach that you
Speaker 1: are advocating for, is it still black and white in
Speaker 1: the sense of if you're dealing with alcohol, it's you
Speaker 1: don't drink or you drink like there's no in between,
Speaker 1: Like there's no in moderation. It's still like if you're
Speaker 1: trying to get clean, there's no drinking at all.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I think that's also not helpful.
Speaker 6: Abstinence only methods like or not for everybody, and so
Speaker 6: at harm reduction is so important, and I think that
Speaker 6: everybody has to find like the point of what we're
Speaker 6: trying to do, right is still the truth to ourselves,
Speaker 6: not prove something.
Speaker 5: To anyone else.
Speaker 6: And we really like what we encourage. What I encourage
Speaker 6: it for people just to remember that they told some
Speaker 6: truth to themselves somewhere along the way and that they're
Speaker 6: going to keep doing that, and that that is the point, right,
Speaker 6: like of where what decisions you make for yourself.
Speaker 2: I would just like to say too, just to you know,
Speaker 2: the only reason why I drink red wine is because
Speaker 2: I've been told by my doctor that it actually has benefits.
Speaker 2: Like I won't drink any other do I drink any
Speaker 2: other alcohol? And if I heard that, Yeah, but if
Speaker 2: I heard that red wine was like actually not good
Speaker 2: for your heart, then I'd be like, Okay, I'm not
Speaker 2: drinking anymore because you know me, I'm so like health conscious,
Speaker 2: So really there to everyone, buy one brick at wines
Speaker 2: dot com.
Speaker 6: Those studies were based on we're typically run on mail
Speaker 6: on men, and there are healthful components of found in
Speaker 6: red wine, but.
Speaker 2: The list of.
Speaker 5: Adverse effects are prey long.
Speaker 2: And so I would I think, but so is sugars
Speaker 2: and cars, and like that's like yeah, and that's where
Speaker 2: I'm just like, God, like everything is bad. Everything will
Speaker 2: turn into like you now you gotta the cheese is
Speaker 2: bad for your gut, and this is bad for that,
Speaker 2: and you know the pasta that you eat is gonna
Speaker 2: like that's bad for you too. And I'm just like,
Speaker 2: I like, it's just too much.
Speaker 6: You know, it is too much, and and that in
Speaker 6: of itself is its own problem and own sickness.
Speaker 5: I think, like this is what Here's what I would
Speaker 5: say to that. Doctors.
Speaker 6: I've worked in healthcare, and you know, I dated doctors,
Speaker 6: were friends of doctors. Doctors, aren't you know doctors have
Speaker 6: their their own opinions. You know, doctors often go to
Speaker 6: twelve step programs as part of their training. They're not
Speaker 6: addiction medicine. They're not reading the different studies on alcohol,
Speaker 6: and so what I would say is do your research
Speaker 6: on it on whether or not like red wine isn't
Speaker 6: any different, it's still is ethanol in it. It's still
Speaker 6: as you know, as still as it's still the same thing.
Speaker 6: And recently there was an article that showed a truck
Speaker 6: driving on a handle of Tito's vodka, like literally they
Speaker 6: just put a Tito's vodecan.
Speaker 5: And so we do want to do our own research.
Speaker 6: We do want to understand and there's plenty of it
Speaker 6: out there now around the impacts on the body. But
Speaker 6: you're exactly right as well, which is there is there's
Speaker 6: there is so many ways that we're told that we
Speaker 6: you know, have to be how we have to eat
Speaker 6: and live, and that like idea of like perfection is
Speaker 6: in of itself really problematic. You know, we have to
Speaker 6: make our own choices. And I think like there's there's
Speaker 6: also just this I always like to say, know what
Speaker 6: you can't f with, like know what you cannot mess with,
Speaker 6: And I think that we have to open the door
Speaker 6: to be able to look at the things in our
Speaker 6: lives that are actually really hurting us.
Speaker 5: You know, Gwyneth Paltrow like.
Speaker 6: Smokes a cigarette a week or I've read that she
Speaker 6: I don't know she still does, but there was a
Speaker 6: while where she was talking about how she has one
Speaker 6: American spirit on a Friday, you know, And so I
Speaker 6: mean that's very different than somebody that's smoking, you know,
Speaker 6: twenty cigarettes a day. But there's also a lot of
Speaker 6: gray area between those two things. And so I think
Speaker 6: it's really important that people ask themselves, is this negatively
Speaker 6: impacting me? Or do I know what it is that
Speaker 6: I'm putting in my body again so I can make
Speaker 6: these choices. That really is where it's at. This isn't
Speaker 6: about oh, you can't drink anymore, like women can't drink anymore.
Speaker 6: It's not like the point of this. This is really
Speaker 6: the earth how it shows up in our lives.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Before we let you go, Holly, what's one thing to
Speaker 1: give to our listeners, Like, what's the one thing for
Speaker 1: you personally that you do that just on a daily
Speaker 1: basis that recenters yourself. Is it a morning routine? Is
Speaker 1: it something that you do just to kind of you know,
Speaker 1: share that with our listeners.
Speaker 5: I meditate. I do have a pastma meditation.
Speaker 6: Now I've been through I have really dedicated my that
Speaker 6: has been the cornerstone of my recovery. And I've been
Speaker 6: to like ten days silent workshops I've been to. I mean,
Speaker 6: I've done at all and I've really landed in as
Speaker 6: and going because the PASTAA instruction, and that's what I
Speaker 6: do every day and it's extremely helpful and beneficial.
Speaker 5: That's my thing.
Speaker 1: I love it. Have you ever done ayahuasca?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 6: I have not, No, but plant medicine is you know,
Speaker 6: has its place in addiction recovery.
Speaker 1: Okay, where can our listeners find you and your book
Speaker 1: and everything else they need to know?
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so I mostly currently contribute on Instagram, So
Speaker 6: it's that, Holly, and you can buy my book. Please
Speaker 6: look at independent booksellers. Please look at your local favorite bookstore.
Speaker 6: You can go to Target, you can go to Barnes
Speaker 6: and Noble, you can go to Amazon. It's everywhere. It's
Speaker 6: called quit like a woman.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, thank you so much Holly for coming on
Speaker 2: wine down. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Great conversation.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks Holly, thank you. Well that was some good combos.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it was really interesting and I just
Speaker 1: I appreciated her her delivery on things and just you know,
Speaker 1: making it known that it's okay for people to have
Speaker 1: different methods of getting somewhere, and especially her point. I mean,
Speaker 1: this just rains true for so many things across the
Speaker 1: board about just because your way of doing things is
Speaker 1: different than mine doesn't mean one's wrong, one's wrong or right.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's just I respect that, and I think that the
Speaker 1: world and the country especially right now needs more of
Speaker 1: that kind of mindset for sure.
Speaker 2: And I also think too, like sometimes it just can
Speaker 2: be so overwhelming where it's like this is bad for you,
Speaker 2: this is bad for you, this is bad for you.
Speaker 2: Can't have that, that's bad for you, And it's just
Speaker 2: like just you know, do your own research and then
Speaker 2: don't overdo it and see how it's serving you as well,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, we're all smart, right, but love
Speaker 2: you guys, And I'm excited. We've got some really amazing
Speaker 2: podcasts coming up. I mean, just to tease a few,
Speaker 2: James Lafferty, Stephen Coletti, which you know for my Tree Hillers,
Speaker 2: we've got Tiger Wood's mistress, so that's going to be
Speaker 2: a very intense kind of conversation. And I also have
Speaker 2: a little bit of a spoiler one of the winners
Speaker 2: from the bachelort seasons also is going to be on
Speaker 2: and I'm super pumped to talk to him. It's going
Speaker 2: to be y'all, stay tuned.