WEBVTT - Quitters Always Win

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<v Speaker 1>Wind Down with Jann Kramer and Michael Coffman and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>her radio podcast. All right, so there's a lot going

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<v Speaker 1>on in the world, and we're not going to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it. We're going to talk about everything else.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, not that we're not going to talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Mark made a really good point in the opening

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<v Speaker 2>of the show. It's like, I don't think people come

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<v Speaker 2>to you for politics.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think we're under the politics and news category

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<v Speaker 1>of podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>No, But I will say I will say one thing

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<v Speaker 2>because me and my girlfriends were talking about the other

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<v Speaker 2>day and I was like, you know what this is,

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<v Speaker 2>just like this is why I turn off sometimes the

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<v Speaker 2>news and Instagram, because I like it just stresses me

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<v Speaker 2>out and gives me anxiety. And I'm like, I'm what,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm in control because I'm not in control of anything else.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I first and foremost believe God's in control,

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<v Speaker 2>but after that, I'm in control of what I do

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<v Speaker 2>to make myself feel better anxiety, the things that I do,

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<v Speaker 2>like to be a better mom, and me watching the news,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, I want to be informed, like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not trying to be arrogant walking around, but I also

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<v Speaker 2>feel like, I know the kind of person I am.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a lot of anxiety and I can't control

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<v Speaker 2>that right now. So I'm going to control what I can,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's you know, being a good mom, showing up,

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<v Speaker 2>doing self care, and trying to stay off you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the news is much as possible. And now someone might

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<v Speaker 2>call me arrogant and white privilege because of that, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I just yeah, I know my anxiety level

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<v Speaker 2>of things, and I just I have to just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>control what I can because if not, I'll go crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And this is one of the reasons why I

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<v Speaker 1>really enjoy not being on social media. Granted, sometimes I

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<v Speaker 1>feel out of the loop when things start to occur,

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<v Speaker 1>but I like it, especially when you get into the

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<v Speaker 1>weeds of things. And so instead of talking about that,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk about Kim and Kanye for a second. Why

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<v Speaker 1>Because are you really surprised that they're getting divorced?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I feel bad for their kids.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, can you say you're surprised.

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<v Speaker 2>Though, I'm you know who she has on Actually I

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<v Speaker 2>was on her podcast, Laura Walser. Oh yeah, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>just did her podcast a while ago. I mean, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not if anyone like so there's so many divorces. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>surprised by a few people's divorces this year. But I mean, honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of sad, but like nothing surprises me anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good point, I mean, And that's that's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of sad to think about that, because I'm like, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>someone could say the same about us if we got divorced.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you surprised?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know a valid point?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, you're right, Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised.

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<v Speaker 1>People probably wouldn't be that surprised.

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<v Speaker 2>No, they'd be like, all right, you know, they tried.

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<v Speaker 1>But they might be more surprised like ten yet from

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<v Speaker 1>round back. Really I forgot about that.

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<v Speaker 2>But no, I mean, you know, again, I feel bad

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<v Speaker 2>for the kids and even though they're bajillionaires, but you

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<v Speaker 2>know that sayesn't you know again, we have friends that

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<v Speaker 2>have all the money in the world, but they're so

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<v Speaker 2>unhappy in their marriage. So it's like, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not about it's not about that.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not. I'm the older you get, the more

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<v Speaker 1>you realize that.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but I mean, if you take into account,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really not surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if people

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<v Speaker 2>said the same thing about us.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm with you, you know, speaking to kids. Though.

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<v Speaker 1>We had Jolly come in our bed last night because

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<v Speaker 1>anytime she takes a nap at school, we can tell

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<v Speaker 1>because she does not go to sleep when we put

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<v Speaker 1>her to bed, and she's.

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<v Speaker 2>Just so crabby today.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was so whiny. Yeah, And so it was

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<v Speaker 1>snowing last night, so we're like, all right, we know

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<v Speaker 1>Jolly's up. We turned all the lights off in our

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<v Speaker 1>room and opened the curtains so we could watch the snow, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, so we'll get Joelye and bring her down.

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<v Speaker 1>So we do that, and we're cuddling and we're like

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<v Speaker 1>sandwiching Jolly, and after three minutes, no, like two, Joe

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<v Speaker 1>Jolie kind of goes dad like yeah, honey, She's like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm ready to go to my bed. And that's funny

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<v Speaker 1>for us, because, as you guys know, our love languages

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<v Speaker 1>are completely different, and Jolie is my child when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to that stuff, where like the whole cuddling and

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<v Speaker 1>all that, she's good for like a minute and she's like, nah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good, I'm gonna go sleep in my bed. Y'all

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<v Speaker 1>sleep in your bed. I'm out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I'm like, just somebody cuddle with me.

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<v Speaker 1>Please, That's what I say. You got Jason. He's a

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<v Speaker 1>little cuddle bug, he is.

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<v Speaker 2>But what else is going on?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're traveling today. We're going to Ohio from my

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<v Speaker 1>grandmother's funeral that passed away on the twenty eighth, and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I sat with my motions around it, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the first twenty four hours when we found out. But

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<v Speaker 1>now I'm I guess I'm kind of nervous for like

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<v Speaker 1>going back, going up there and the emotion's coming back.

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<v Speaker 1>And as Jana knows, she's suffered from dementia for the

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<v Speaker 1>past fifteen years, has lived in assistant living for the

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<v Speaker 1>last twelve, barely remembers, you know, only has like one

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<v Speaker 1>memory that she can remember of the grandkids or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>parents or whatever. And so it's one of those things

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<v Speaker 1>that the call was inevitable, but it doesn't really change

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<v Speaker 1>the impact of it when it finally comes, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know, I'm a little nervous.

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<v Speaker 2>Which part are you nervous?

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<v Speaker 1>Book? I mean, we haven't traveled since early fall, when

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<v Speaker 1>things were a little calmer, with the whole virus stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>so that I guess a little bit, and then I

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<v Speaker 1>think just the emotions of things. And you know, anytime

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<v Speaker 1>you see someone you love upset too, that's like even

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<v Speaker 1>more of a kill or so it's like seeing my

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<v Speaker 1>mom upset or something like that, and you know, we're

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<v Speaker 1>the only ones able to go, so like you and

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<v Speaker 1>I are basically representing all the grandkids, So that's that's big.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's some emotion around that too, because I

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<v Speaker 1>wish my cousins could be there because we were all

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<v Speaker 1>really close. I wish, you know, all my aunts and

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<v Speaker 1>uncles could be there, but you know they have their

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<v Speaker 1>reasons that they can't, So I think that's gonna I'm

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<v Speaker 1>nervous and sad for that too, that it's not the

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<v Speaker 1>celebration of life that one hopes for somebody they love,

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<v Speaker 1>and the means of not everyone being able to be there,

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, we're gonna make the most of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're gonna be able to see some of your

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<v Speaker 1>family too, because it's in Toledo, Ohio, which is close

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<v Speaker 1>to Detroit, so we're kind of bundling the trip up

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<v Speaker 1>with seeing family for positive and negative reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, well I'm sorry again. I'm happy that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to be able to be there to support you

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<v Speaker 2>in your mom.

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<v Speaker 1>We appreciate it. I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let's take a break and then we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>bring it back up, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>On a high note. We have found another great show

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<v Speaker 1>that we've been watching.

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<v Speaker 2>So we finished Undoing, which was so good, slightly triggering,

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<v Speaker 2>but so good. Yeah, and now we're on Flight Attendant,

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<v Speaker 2>which is so good. It reminds me of Dead to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Very similar, yeah, very yeah, in very similar ways. Definitely,

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<v Speaker 1>I can see how they're how they're the same. It's surprise.

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<v Speaker 1>It's because neither one of us hadn't necessarily opinion of

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<v Speaker 1>Kallik Cucko.

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<v Speaker 2>I personally never liked thirty What is that? Thirty Rock? No,

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<v Speaker 2>Big Big Bang, didn't. I just didn't. I didn't, I no, No,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't like her in it. I didn't like the show.

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<v Speaker 2>So but now I like, like, Osh, she doesn't bother me.

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<v Speaker 1>I think she's great in it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, she's awesome. She honestly, she reminds me of a

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<v Speaker 2>Christine Applegate. It's very dead to me kind of feel.

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<v Speaker 2>And then we also we have our side stuff too.

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<v Speaker 2>So I watched Pretty Little Things, which is a ballet

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<v Speaker 2>show but it's like dark and loved it. And then Bridgerton,

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<v Speaker 2>which I binged in one day, so steep me. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like soft p O r N. I can't say the word.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's I mean, it's incredible. It's like Pride and

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<v Speaker 2>Prejudice on like viagra.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You described it to me saying, is the fifty

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<v Speaker 1>shades of gray and Pride and prejudice, Pride and Prejudice.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's so good. Oh my god, it was so good.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know, did you try it?

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<v Speaker 1>Look? Pride and Prejudice is one of Jan's favorite movies

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<v Speaker 1>of all time. And I fall asleep and I'm I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not a fall asleep during a movie kind of guy.

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<v Speaker 1>That thing bores me to death, and so I'm with you.

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<v Speaker 3>I hate period pieces.

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<v Speaker 4>I hate powdered wigs, I hate the big bell dresses.

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<v Speaker 3>I hate all of it.

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<v Speaker 4>I watched the trailer for Bridget and I thought, Nope,

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<v Speaker 4>not for me. But everyone's raving about it. I think

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<v Speaker 4>I have to try it.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to try it. But here's the thing I

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<v Speaker 2>will say. I don't think it's for men. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's for women, but I think it's very bad on

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<v Speaker 2>like my marriage and like those kind of shows, because

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<v Speaker 2>every show that I watch is like the lust and

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<v Speaker 2>the love and like wanting that like attention and having

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<v Speaker 2>that like immediately, and I'm just like, this is like

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<v Speaker 2>me and my girlfriend were talking about, like this is

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<v Speaker 2>terrible for our marriages because we're just like, ah, we

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<v Speaker 2>want that again.

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<v Speaker 1>We want that mister Darcy.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the Duke.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just like and of course that night, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, might gets home from a guy's night and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, baby, come cuddle with me, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he ends up not cuddling with me, and I'm like, ugh,

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<v Speaker 2>I just want a man's ye around me. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think it truly is like it's like a gossip Girl's

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<v Speaker 2>fifty Shades of Gray.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been binging more shows, I think than I have recently. Yep,

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<v Speaker 1>you have. Yeah, she's basically confiscated my iPad. Anytime I

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<v Speaker 1>go and look for it, she's got it somewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>But no, it's really good. Like I think, Mark, you

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<v Speaker 2>should definitely watch it. Don't let your daughters near it,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean not don't watch it with a parent, like

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<v Speaker 2>if you're older in your twenties thirties, don't watch it

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<v Speaker 2>with a parent. I mean she's basically getting you know

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<v Speaker 2>what on like the Stairs, Like it's just like it's intense,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's it's almost like, I mean, it's hot. It

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<v Speaker 2>makes you like your heart.

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<v Speaker 1>How it's a period piece, so what they're wearing, like you.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't just don't understand. It's the connection that the duke

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<v Speaker 2>and the girl have. But everything is so overly sexualized

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<v Speaker 2>right now on TV. I mean it's sex scene. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like the one show that I watched, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>why do you have to have so many sex scenes

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<v Speaker 2>like it? I feel like everything's just so overly sexualized

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<v Speaker 2>that it's kind of getting annoying.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually have a take on that. Okay, I've found

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<v Speaker 1>myself and I don't know if this necessarily comes from

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of obviously my recovery stuff or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Because we're seeing any of that in shows and movies.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't affect me like that doesn't like oh, like

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't get my addict think it doesn't, so, but

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<v Speaker 1>I do. I have found myself more uncomfortable, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think maybe it is because of shows. How sexualized? Are

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<v Speaker 1>they are? Where if I'm watching a show or a

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<v Speaker 1>movie by myself and I'm like, okay, Like I watched

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<v Speaker 1>a Basic Instinct for the first time, right, like a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks ago, never seen it, right because when

0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.040
<v Speaker 1>it came out, we were just too young, and I

0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.760
<v Speaker 1>just haven't never watched it. That movie is effing intense, okay,

0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.480
<v Speaker 1>and the sex things are intense, and I'm just like,

0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 1>all right, it's it's been like a minute, like I

0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.440
<v Speaker 1>get it, and I would hit like the you know,

0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.040
<v Speaker 1>fast forward ten seconds, fifteen seconds until it's done, because

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, this isn't this does nothing for me. I

0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.120
<v Speaker 1>want like get back to the story of the action.

0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.280
<v Speaker 1>I want to know what happens. Did she really kill them?

0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.960
<v Speaker 1>And all this stuff? And so to your point, I mean,

0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.520
<v Speaker 1>granted that was movie in the nineties, but still things

0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 1>I've watched now, I'm just like, Okay, I get it.

0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.640
<v Speaker 2>But as a woman too though, I'm looking at it like, yes,

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 2>I love the connection. But then at the same time,

0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, does every single episode have to have this? Now?

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Granted it did something for me, I loved it, but

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 2>not not when I turn on the next show and

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.920
<v Speaker 2>it's like god, like, okay, can I have something else

0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.040
<v Speaker 2>that isn't just like sex like every single episode.

0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.000
<v Speaker 4>Well, you know, here's the thought for twenty twenty one.

0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Might be time to get Jane of her own iPad.

0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.920
<v Speaker 1>A But here's the thing. Now, I'll get it. I'll

0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 1>get it, and she'll never use it. No, She'll still

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.240
<v Speaker 1>like use mine and then and I'll get up bring

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 1>it home and be like why did you spend money

0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.719
<v Speaker 1>on this? And so it's I'm gonna lose lose here,

0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Mark okay, and she's the world's world charging things. When

0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:02.000
<v Speaker 1>she's done.

0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he gets so mad at me, and I'm like, chill,

0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:05.800
<v Speaker 2>just plug it in.

0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but if you need it right then.

0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Like this morning, I wanted to watch By the way,

0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.760
<v Speaker 2>I'll never run without the iPad because I was so

0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 2>bored today at my run. So I'm like because I

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.800
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, it's like oh, so was because it's

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 2>thirty minutes up yet. But I was like, hey, can

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I use your iPad? And he's like, well, I have

0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 2>to charge it, and I'm like, well, how much is

0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 2>left on there? He's like thirty percent and I was like,

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 2>oh I can That's perfect. That'll give me enough time

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.640
<v Speaker 2>to watch and he's like, but but like it just

0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.040
<v Speaker 2>gave you anxiety. I'm like, who.

0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Cares because we're traveling today.

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh, then you just charge it after my run and

0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:39.520
<v Speaker 2>he gets mad at me when I don't charge it

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Jolie's iPad, he gets mad at you.

0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's right. Joey comes and wakes me up

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.000
<v Speaker 1>at six in the morning, dead iPad. Oh sorry, Mommy

0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.760
<v Speaker 1>didn't charge it. Here's mine, and then that one's dead,

0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and then everything's dead.

0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:54.079
<v Speaker 3>I have two batteries, like just for Allison's bone. Her

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 3>phone's always dying, and I'm like, these are always charged,

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.720
<v Speaker 3>ready to go because she can charge it up anywhere

0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:00.760
<v Speaker 3>she is. But one thing I do.

0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Right in's sane. I'm like, like, if we went on

0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 1>trips with it, when we go on trips with the

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 1>kids again, yes, Jana probably plans so much stuff around it,

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.559
<v Speaker 1>but we would not survive if it wasn't for dad.

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Because I got the cords, I got the iPads, I

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.000
<v Speaker 1>got the headphones, I got batteries, I got everything for

0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the trip. I got planned packed ready to go, ge

0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.480
<v Speaker 1>have it prepared. Everything's fully charged. If it was Janna

0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 1>in that category. I think this is women thing too.

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Men with our stuff is charged, our stuff is ready

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 1>to go. Women be like, wait, where are my headphones?

0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:28.840
<v Speaker 3>Wait?

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Wait, this isn't charge.

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't have Oh I'm sorry because we were so

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 2>busy packing our clothes, kids, clothes, your clothes, probably doing

0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.720
<v Speaker 2>the laundry, everything else that I'm sorry we don't have.

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 2>We don't give up flying. Guess what freedom.

0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.080
<v Speaker 1>About You can buy. You can buy the electronic Guess

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 1>what happens on the airplane. You can't get new clothes

0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:47.280
<v Speaker 1>on the airplane.

0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:48.320
<v Speaker 2>But guess what time out.

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.360
<v Speaker 1>You don't need clothes on airplanes, but need you do need.

0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 1>You need something to watch, You need something to entertain yourself.

0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 1>You need something to entertain your kids. And extra clothes.

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you've said your piece on the plane, what do

0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 2>you do? I'm constantly like, okay, Mommy's like mommy, mommy, mommy,

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I want to snack. I'm like, oh yeah, okay, okay,

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:05.920
<v Speaker 2>here's a snack, Mommy, Mommy, I'm thirsty. Okay, hey I

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 2>got a peep Okay. And you know what Michael's doing.

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 2>He's sitting there on his freaking iPad. The entire flight

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, can you help, please? Just on his iPad?

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.000
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, no iPads for anybody on the plane,

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.640
<v Speaker 2>like none, Like there will be no iPad roll for

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 2>just Jolie. Like Joli and Jason have him fine, but Dad,

0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 2>he's not allowed to have his iPad. It's like he

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 2>gets annoyed. You get so annoyed when I tap on

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:30.960
<v Speaker 2>your shoulder when I.

0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Talked about this, I started the video from we talked

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 1>about this when we were on the podcast in La.

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.080
<v Speaker 1>We're in the studio and you tap me. I'm just like,

0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:39.240
<v Speaker 1>what what do you want?

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I've got two kids. They need help. I need help.

0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, like ones like ah, and you're like enjoying

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.320
<v Speaker 2>whatever show that you're watching. I don't know, rewatching Dexter

0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.880
<v Speaker 2>for the twentieth freaking time, or the office, Like like,

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 2>help put your iPad down. I don't get to have

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 2>a fun free flight.

0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Can't you see I'm busy.

0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.880
<v Speaker 1>We have a guest on today that I'm very intrigued

0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:04.960
<v Speaker 1>and excited to talk to.

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.400
<v Speaker 2>I kind of feel like you're going to fight with her,

0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 2>just like you fought with me. Gonna be a little

0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.640
<v Speaker 2>honest on that, because I was reading The Breakdown, but

0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:13.200
<v Speaker 2>I read.

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 1>More on her on her home web page, and it

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:17.840
<v Speaker 1>comes off.

0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Not as not as like, well, isn't doesn't she not

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:24.840
<v Speaker 2>believe in AA programs?

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.920
<v Speaker 1>It didn't so on the Breakdown it seemed that way.

0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.320
<v Speaker 1>On her website, it the way she painted the picture

0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 1>was like more of it wasn't for.

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Her, which, oh, okay, I have a lot of friends there

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 2>like that.

0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.800
<v Speaker 1>I respect that. Yeah, So I'm just interested. So her

0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 1>name's Hollywhittaker, and she wrote a book Quit Like a Woman.

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Setigan used her actually to stop drinking.

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.920
<v Speaker 1>She did, and so you know, her her following around

0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 1>this this concept is really growing, you know, especially with women.

0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 1>So I'm interested to get her on, obviously, me being

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.880
<v Speaker 1>someone who's in recovery and works a twelve step program

0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.920
<v Speaker 1>on her takes, you know, on the differences and why

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 1>she didn't get into it, everything like that. So, I mean,

0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.359
<v Speaker 1>she has a podcast, she's got a book, she has

0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:11.480
<v Speaker 1>a blog. You know, she usually work in healthcare, healthcare business.

0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 1>So I'm excited to get her on and kind of

0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:18.160
<v Speaker 1>dive deep on a subject that I'm obviously very passionate,

0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:22.520
<v Speaker 1>passionate and bias towards m But before.

0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.360
<v Speaker 2>We bring her in, let's talk about three day Rule.

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 2>That's right, Well, are you recently divorcement need some help

0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 2>getting back out there?

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't, but I'm sure some do.

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Well. It can be hard and you may not know

0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 2>how to start and where to look, but we know

0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.320
<v Speaker 2>the perfect matchmakers that can help you find your perfect

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.120
<v Speaker 2>match at three Day Rule. If I see you on there,

0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.920
<v Speaker 2>you're in so much trouble. Your time is too valuable

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:45.879
<v Speaker 2>to go on bad dates. So with one of the

0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.160
<v Speaker 2>largest and most selective networks in the country, Three Day

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Rule will get you the dates that you guys want.

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 1>So sign up today using our length three day rule

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.959
<v Speaker 1>dot com slash iHeart. That's three day Rule dot com

0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.359
<v Speaker 1>slash iHeart. You'll thank us and.

0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Let us know if there's a match made in heaven.

0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Before we get Holly on, Mark just said something to

0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:17.879
<v Speaker 2>me and I'm like, wait, did we have this conversation?

0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Will you say what you just said?

0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.400
<v Speaker 4>Well, with Holly coming on, I don't know if it's

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 4>relevant to her conversation because she's more about quitting alcohol.

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.120
<v Speaker 3>I was just mentioning that I personally have never been

0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:27.160
<v Speaker 3>drunk in my life.

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 4>Easton also never has drunk in his life, and so

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 4>I thought, if it comes up, if you need it,

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:32.440
<v Speaker 4>there you go.

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 2>And I haven't either, So really never been drunk.

0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Man, Well, aren't I just the sinner here?

0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 4>No?

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.600
<v Speaker 2>I my mom she'd let me have a wine cooler

0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.880
<v Speaker 2>when I was like fourteen fifteen, so I never felt

0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 2>like I had to hide and abuse. And I was like, oh, okay,

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 2>that's what it tastes like. Great, and then I never

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was the one always driving my drunk

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.399
<v Speaker 2>friends in high school. I didn't have my college years,

0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.119
<v Speaker 2>and I just saw them like, why would you want

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.159
<v Speaker 2>to get drunk? Like you're puking, you look miserable, Like.

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.159
<v Speaker 4>The idea of somebody the next day telling me what

0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 4>I did the night before is my worst nightmare?

0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.120
<v Speaker 2>That sounds awful, And Mike would Mike would say this though,

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 2>he would say, well that's blackout drunk. It's different. He's like,

0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.560
<v Speaker 2>you've been drunk. I'm like, I've never had the spins.

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.399
<v Speaker 2>I've never like, I get like, I get happy like,

0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.439
<v Speaker 2>but I've never I've never spun. I've never like, I

0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.120
<v Speaker 2>have my two drinks and I'm done.

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:25.960
<v Speaker 3>She've been buzzed. And that's about it.

0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've been I've been a little buzzy a time

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:30.879
<v Speaker 2>or two, but I've never been drunk.

0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:32.600
<v Speaker 3>And how often do you drink wine?

0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, so I'm I'm stopping as much as I used to.

0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:43.840
<v Speaker 2>So I've I used to drink pretty much daily, but

0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 2>now I'm doing three to four days and I'll have

0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 2>like because they say for women, seven drinks in a

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 2>week is average. So now I'm like, I'm just picking

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.040
<v Speaker 2>like three days out of the week and I'll have

0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.639
<v Speaker 2>like six drinks. Well I'm not six drinks, but six total,

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.960
<v Speaker 2>like out of the wake. So I'm just and plus

0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:05.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I have a wine coming out, Like I

0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.639
<v Speaker 2>love wine, Like I'm obsessed with wine. It's my wind up,

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean wine down, Like my new wine, one Brick,

0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.120
<v Speaker 2>is coming out this week. Like it's just you know.

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.400
<v Speaker 1>I I banned one Brick.

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Just I love wine, but I also like I don't

0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 2>abuse it, like I don't I if we go to

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 2>like we just went to the Titans game, and it's like,

0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't drink because I want to get drunk or

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.439
<v Speaker 2>to fit, Like I don't. I like good wine. So

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:32.520
<v Speaker 2>and I've and when we go on vacations, like I

0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.239
<v Speaker 2>don't get a strawberry this or whatever. Like I'm just like,

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.480
<v Speaker 2>I'll have a nice glass of wine at dinner because

0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I can't drink crappy wine like I just like the

0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:41.640
<v Speaker 2>taste of good wine.

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, Holly's ready, so we can bring her in the differences.

0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:44.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't even know what wine tastes like.

0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:46.400
<v Speaker 1>So there's you know, are you.

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Like sober or did you just never ever I've never.

0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 3>Even tried it. I don't even know what taste like.

0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:53.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't even I've just stayed away my whole life.

0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, it's interesting.

0:20:55.800 --> 0:21:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's bring in Holly and get this convo started. Hello,

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Hey Holly, Hey Holly, how you doing. Hi?

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:06.160
<v Speaker 4>You good.

0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:08.240
<v Speaker 5>I'm hanging in there. How are you both?

0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 1>We're great, we're doing great.

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So recently you've had a you know, a more

0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously, you know, people know who you are.

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.520
<v Speaker 2>But with Chrissy Teagan saying that you know your book

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.119
<v Speaker 2>helped her get sober, I mean that's got to be

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.000
<v Speaker 2>That's got to be pretty cool someone with as much

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.639
<v Speaker 2>notoriety as she has to talk about your book. I

0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 2>mean that's got to feel pretty good.

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it feels pretty extraordinary and unreal.

0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:37.280
<v Speaker 6>Actually, I've been doing this since I started talking about

0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:41.159
<v Speaker 6>my own sobriety in twenty thirteen in a really different world,

0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.679
<v Speaker 6>and my thoughts about it at the time, I mean

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.520
<v Speaker 6>they were pretty they're echoed.

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.160
<v Speaker 5>Now throughout people's recovery.

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.159
<v Speaker 6>There's a different story that we're building about what it

0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 6>means to stop drinking, and so it's real true validation.

0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:59.760
<v Speaker 6>I think of the work that a lot of people

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.160
<v Speaker 6>need to change the narrative on what quitting drinking means.

0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.920
<v Speaker 1>So Holly, also, I want to ask, because I don't

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:08.680
<v Speaker 1>know much of our story that you know, but I'm

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.240
<v Speaker 1>in a twelve step program in recovery for sex addiction,

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.600
<v Speaker 1>and I've been in the program for since twenty sixteen.

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:18.760
<v Speaker 1>You know something that I follow that has worked for me.

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.440
<v Speaker 1>But I totally understand after being in it, how someone

0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:27.159
<v Speaker 1>can have a mindset of maybe it's just not for me,

0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.439
<v Speaker 1>or they want to find other ways. And as you know,

0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:31.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you've been in the rooms to try to

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 1>figure all this out, they pretty much don't say there's

0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.119
<v Speaker 1>any other way. They just say there's twelve steps, right,

0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.239
<v Speaker 1>And so I'm interested, like, what was that point for

0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:42.080
<v Speaker 1>you that you're like, Okay, this isn't for me. I

0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:43.200
<v Speaker 1>got to find a different way.

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:45.199
<v Speaker 5>I think it's real interesting.

0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.760
<v Speaker 6>So my entry into this was I was given a

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.240
<v Speaker 6>twelve step program as an option when I first went

0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:53.959
<v Speaker 6>to a doctor in twenty twelve, and then I had

0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 6>severe bolimia and also alcoholics disorder and also substance use

0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 6>disorder pot so.

0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:04.119
<v Speaker 5>It was a non starter for me.

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.840
<v Speaker 6>I just you know, I couldn't go there and I

0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.200
<v Speaker 6>didn't want that. And then I ended up finding almost

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:16.080
<v Speaker 6>like a third door because I was I self diagnosed

0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 6>as having borderline personality disorder, which also said you need

0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.439
<v Speaker 6>to stop drinking, which I want to be clear, I

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.679
<v Speaker 6>didn't have. But a lot of times there's different mental

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.760
<v Speaker 6>health issues that are replicated by addiction or exacerbated. But

0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 6>for me, I found a different way in I read

0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.040
<v Speaker 6>a book called The Easy Way to Control Alcohol, which

0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:39.960
<v Speaker 6>really almost broke down the idea of alcoholism, you know,

0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.879
<v Speaker 6>versus like alcoholism as a I think some people have

0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:45.119
<v Speaker 6>versus alcoholism thing.

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 5>Maybe most people you know shouldn't be consuming the way

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.440
<v Speaker 5>we do in the West and.

0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Now throughout the world.

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.320
<v Speaker 6>But it was just I had a very different in

0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:57.919
<v Speaker 6>and I formed a set of beliefs around myself, you know,

0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:02.240
<v Speaker 6>and also alcohol. And then and I tried to quit

0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:06.120
<v Speaker 6>drinking for six months and it was such a terrifying experience,

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.280
<v Speaker 6>and I by the time on my sobriety date, which

0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:15.080
<v Speaker 6>is April fourteen, twenty thirteen, I really had I had

0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:17.359
<v Speaker 6>come to terms with so much, and I also felt

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 6>like I really needed support and to face it. So

0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:21.959
<v Speaker 6>I actually did go. That's when I went to AA.

0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.399
<v Speaker 6>One of my friend's fathers called me, and he been

0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:27.919
<v Speaker 6>in AA for twenty years, and he was just like, go,

0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.199
<v Speaker 6>you know, And so I went. And what I found

0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:34.639
<v Speaker 6>was having had an experience where I had developed a

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 6>different belief system and was actually really secure in my

0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:43.040
<v Speaker 6>own relationship in that I didn't want to drink. And

0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:46.960
<v Speaker 6>also I felt that a lot of the conversations I

0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:49.119
<v Speaker 6>was having in the rooms were running counter to that.

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 6>I had people come up to me after the meeting

0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 6>and say I would drink again if I didn't get

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:54.879
<v Speaker 6>a sponsor, I would drink again if I didn't go

0:24:54.920 --> 0:25:01.800
<v Speaker 6>to more meetings. And what had really been so important

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.560
<v Speaker 6>to me in my own recovery was moving that kind

0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 6>of idea out of my mind that I would have

0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:10.440
<v Speaker 6>to constantly be vigilant of my alcoholism to not drink.

0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:12.760
<v Speaker 6>I had a very different belief set around that, and

0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:17.399
<v Speaker 6>so I felt almost more threatened in my sobriety and

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:22.679
<v Speaker 6>that experience than I did without going to AA. So

0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:25.480
<v Speaker 6>I stopped going about three months after I got sober.

0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:32.400
<v Speaker 1>That's so interesting, you know, I can understand. I can

0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:34.679
<v Speaker 1>understand what you're saying at the end there about people.

0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:40.520
<v Speaker 1>It almost feels like a codependency at times, right, like

0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:42.439
<v Speaker 1>like that people may have to the program or have

0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:45.879
<v Speaker 1>to a sponsor, have the people around them, where I

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 1>understand you need the support because it's all about right

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:50.720
<v Speaker 1>reconnecting with people and getting out to yourself and everything.

0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:55.720
<v Speaker 1>But I do share that mindset with you where I'm like,

0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:58.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm not the same in that where I feel like

0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:00.640
<v Speaker 1>if I don't call someone right now, right the second,

0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:02.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to act out or I'm going to do whatever.

0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:05.120
<v Speaker 1>So I definitely agree with you on that.

0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think too, Like I'll just interject, like when

0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:09.439
<v Speaker 2>you were trying to find a sponsor, like one of

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:11.680
<v Speaker 2>them was so much like there was a kid to

0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:13.800
<v Speaker 2>call every day, and you're just like that's not going

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:15.920
<v Speaker 2>to help me from not doing it, Like it's it's

0:26:15.960 --> 0:26:17.840
<v Speaker 2>just finding the right person for you that's going to

0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 2>help guide but also work the steps that because you

0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 2>do believe in the program.

0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 6>You know, yeah, yeah, And I think that's what's so

0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 6>important is I think that there's so many ways to recover.

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 6>It's recovery is as unique to each individual, like there

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:34.439
<v Speaker 6>is no I don't know anybody that has been the

0:26:34.520 --> 0:26:35.880
<v Speaker 6>exact same things.

0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:38.120
<v Speaker 5>And I think that.

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:41.359
<v Speaker 6>We are so afraid to explore other options and to

0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:45.200
<v Speaker 6>validate other options. And so I think, you know, from

0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:46.679
<v Speaker 6>what I know now and how many people I know

0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:49.600
<v Speaker 6>that are in recovery from all from all things, that

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:52.800
<v Speaker 6>there's there has to be room for for so many

0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:54.600
<v Speaker 6>different ways to exist.

0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:58.720
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, your book titles quit quit like a Woman?

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:01.800
<v Speaker 2>What is that? How do you quit like a woman?

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious.

0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:06.679
<v Speaker 6>I think the book is really meant to acknowledge the

0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:11.440
<v Speaker 6>experience of women and which is extremely unique. And we're

0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:15.119
<v Speaker 6>sick for a lot of reasons that that men, you know,

0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:17.240
<v Speaker 6>the same way that black women are sick for a

0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:20.639
<v Speaker 6>lot of reasons that white women will never understand. But

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.040
<v Speaker 6>we're sick for a lot of specific things, and then

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:26.719
<v Speaker 6>there's also this very specific culture where we are marketing

0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 6>it to each other constantly on social media as you know,

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:33.359
<v Speaker 6>the way through, and this is echoed like yesterday, Julian

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:38.359
<v Speaker 6>Michaels posted time of death for dry January as the

0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:41.639
<v Speaker 6>moment that the capital has breached, and then you just

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.399
<v Speaker 6>see thousands of women saying drinking whiskey now. And so

0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:48.440
<v Speaker 6>we're in this bubble where we're constantly normalizing these drugs

0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:52.240
<v Speaker 6>to get through life. And so the book really specifically

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.040
<v Speaker 6>speaks to what the how this came about, how we

0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:57.600
<v Speaker 6>became the marketers of alcohol to each other, and the

0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:01.440
<v Speaker 6>normalization of constant use for mothering, for getting through work

0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:05.639
<v Speaker 6>pretty stressing. And then it also really specifically addresses that

0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:09.640
<v Speaker 6>we're coming to recovery often with deflated egos, the lack

0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:11.640
<v Speaker 6>of you know, sense of self, with the lack of

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:14.680
<v Speaker 6>being able to move freely in the world without having

0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:20.760
<v Speaker 6>to defend ourselves, and really starts from that point of

0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:24.400
<v Speaker 6>what we need in order to build ourselves up instead

0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:26.600
<v Speaker 6>of you know, for me, when I was getting sober,

0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:30.280
<v Speaker 6>a lot of this was don't trust yourself, trust other people.

0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:33.200
<v Speaker 6>You know you're wrong, your mind is lying to you

0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:36.120
<v Speaker 6>and don't you know your ego is you know, that's

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:39.040
<v Speaker 6>your ego talking, or that's your alcoholism talking. And really

0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:42.840
<v Speaker 6>what the book starts with is just you know what

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:45.760
<v Speaker 6>most women are coming in the door with is, which

0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:49.360
<v Speaker 6>is like a cratered ego. And there has to be

0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.920
<v Speaker 6>the sense of really building up this this belief that

0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:57.240
<v Speaker 6>we can trust ourselves and that we can develop a

0:28:57.320 --> 0:29:01.120
<v Speaker 6>sense of ego and that it's not wrong or our

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:04.080
<v Speaker 6>addiction talking, but almost what we need in order to

0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:06.440
<v Speaker 6>really exist fully for sure.

0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:09.160
<v Speaker 2>I guess, like my question to you is, you know

0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:12.240
<v Speaker 2>I've I've never been drunk. We just talked about that before.

0:29:12.280 --> 0:29:13.880
<v Speaker 2>But I love wine, like I mean, I have a

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:16.880
<v Speaker 2>wine coming out this week, like it's it is my thing.

0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:21.520
<v Speaker 2>And I do like, you know, I don't I know

0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:24.200
<v Speaker 2>where you know, nights that I'm like, okay, if we're

0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 2>fighting really bad, like I'm not going to drown it out,

0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:28.680
<v Speaker 2>you know with the wine. And I have to talk

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:30.840
<v Speaker 2>myself almost sometimes out of that. But I do, like

0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:32.720
<v Speaker 2>after a long day with the kids, like sometimes I'm

0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:35.080
<v Speaker 2>like I do want that and I don't want to

0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:39.240
<v Speaker 2>feel bad for it, you know, because it is and

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm not abusing it, and so that's why I'm like,

0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:45.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, I it's like I totally hear what you're saying.

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:46.840
<v Speaker 2>But then I'm also on the other side. I'm like,

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:50.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's also okay that I do this because I'm

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 2>not abusing it in the way where I'm getting drunk.

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.560
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, but I also, like, I enjoy wine.

0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:58.200
<v Speaker 2>I enjoy the you know, the taste of good wine,

0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:00.160
<v Speaker 2>and like I'll never just go to a ran the

0:30:00.400 --> 0:30:02.520
<v Speaker 2>place and be like, you know, if we go to

0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.320
<v Speaker 2>a bar, like I don't drink bar wine, Like I

0:30:04.400 --> 0:30:07.440
<v Speaker 2>like the like the real nice wine, And so you know,

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't

0:30:09.840 --> 0:30:11.959
<v Speaker 2>want women also to feel like that that's not okay

0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:14.400
<v Speaker 2>to like all that joy, Yeah.

0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:17.200
<v Speaker 6>Right, Like women don't need any more shame or guilt

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:19.920
<v Speaker 6>for the choices that they make. And you know you

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.280
<v Speaker 6>just said, like I unlined with a cheeseburger and wined

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:25.920
<v Speaker 6>with a bowl of pasta and sugar and gluten and

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 6>all of you know, the things that you know have

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:30.520
<v Speaker 6>now been crossed off the list of what we're able

0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 6>to enjoy, what we should enjoy, And so that this

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:35.120
<v Speaker 6>really isn't you know. The way I always pull it

0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:38.160
<v Speaker 6>back is there's a thing called informed consent, and informed

0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:42.000
<v Speaker 6>consent is really what was driving In terms of like

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:46.320
<v Speaker 6>opioid over prescription. There was no informed consent about the

0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:48.080
<v Speaker 6>addictive nature of it, and the same goes for like

0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:51.800
<v Speaker 6>Milltown or value when it was over prescribed.

0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:58.040
<v Speaker 5>Our venzes were overprescribed. We we don't know, we don't fully.

0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 6>Understand the consequences of the substance that we're ingesting, and

0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:03.400
<v Speaker 6>we're not able to make informed decisions. And when you

0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:06.680
<v Speaker 6>couple with that the marketing that this is and the

0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:10.920
<v Speaker 6>normalization of the marketing of it, we're not actually moving

0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 6>forward with the full set of facts. And so the

0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 6>way that I really what I really come back to

0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:19.200
<v Speaker 6>is that it's about choice, and it's about informed choice.

0:31:19.720 --> 0:31:26.640
<v Speaker 6>And most of us don't understand that the actual full

0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:30.000
<v Speaker 6>negative impact of alcohol, and we don't think of it

0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:32.120
<v Speaker 6>as a drug. And because we don't think of it

0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:37.000
<v Speaker 6>as a drug, we also don't think of it as

0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:41.480
<v Speaker 6>something that could potentially cause us harm. And so it's

0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:43.280
<v Speaker 6>just like we have the full set of facts around

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 6>cigarettes now we know what they do to us, we

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:48.280
<v Speaker 6>still don't really have we're not working with the full

0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 6>set of facts around alcohol and that like it's linkage

0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 6>to cancer, and that it's linkage to hormonal imbalance, sleep,

0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:59.280
<v Speaker 6>sleep and balances, and so we're pushing this is, like

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:02.080
<v Speaker 6>this is how you to sleep or this is and

0:32:02.120 --> 0:32:06.719
<v Speaker 6>we're not necessarily going into that with eyes wide open

0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.040
<v Speaker 6>around what it actually does to us. And the list

0:32:10.080 --> 0:32:12.600
<v Speaker 6>is pretty long of the negative impact. So I know

0:32:12.680 --> 0:32:15.960
<v Speaker 6>what sugar does to me, you know, and so I'm

0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:18.600
<v Speaker 6>consuming it with a full set of knowledge that it

0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:22.479
<v Speaker 6>causes inflammation, that it causes blood sugar millance like whatever.

0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 6>But we don't have that with alcohol.

0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 1>What's your you know, quit like a woman, what's the

0:32:29.440 --> 0:32:32.160
<v Speaker 1>whole foundational belief? Because you know, in twelve steps it's

0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:36.280
<v Speaker 1>all about higher power, living in consultation, connection and not

0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:38.960
<v Speaker 1>living in isolation, right to get away from yourself. So

0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:41.000
<v Speaker 1>what is that like for in that book? And what

0:32:41.040 --> 0:32:43.160
<v Speaker 1>can people expect when they read it, Like, what's the

0:32:43.200 --> 0:32:46.680
<v Speaker 1>foundation for, you know, for being sober and getting away

0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:47.520
<v Speaker 1>from those things?

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:51.480
<v Speaker 6>I think first is what I was just talking about,

0:32:51.520 --> 0:32:56.000
<v Speaker 6>which is that like information is so important around recovery, addiction,

0:32:56.160 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 6>the substance. But I think mostly it's about holistic, unique

0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:05.120
<v Speaker 6>paths to recovery and empowered paths to recovery. So I

0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:07.640
<v Speaker 6>would say, like I run a company. We run. I

0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:10.280
<v Speaker 6>run a company that helps people move through recovery, and

0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 6>our foundational belief is that we put people at the

0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:16.520
<v Speaker 6>center of it, which means that whatever whatever someone does

0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:19.959
<v Speaker 6>needs to be designed around their unique life, right, it

0:33:20.000 --> 0:33:23.600
<v Speaker 6>needs to be designed around you know, what social oppressions

0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:26.520
<v Speaker 6>are coming in with what like deficits and you know,

0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:31.720
<v Speaker 6>physiology or nutrition or what what whatever. There's a full

0:33:31.760 --> 0:33:34.320
<v Speaker 6>spectrum of a human that walks through the door anytime

0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:37.320
<v Speaker 6>you know, you're looking to enter a path of recovery.

0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:41.280
<v Speaker 6>And really we drink or we drug, or we escape

0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 6>for so many different reasons, and all those reasons really

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:45.360
<v Speaker 6>have to be brought into it.

0:33:45.440 --> 0:33:48.640
<v Speaker 5>So you know, AA or a twelve.

0:33:48.440 --> 0:33:54.240
<v Speaker 6>Step program absolutely focuses on community, It focuses on storytelling,

0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:57.960
<v Speaker 6>it focuses on higher power, it focuses on you know,

0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:01.960
<v Speaker 6>there's there's very specific things those are not excluded from

0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:04.640
<v Speaker 6>the path, right, But I think it's a matter of

0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:09.640
<v Speaker 6>also bringing in other things, like you know, balancing our neurochemicals,

0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 6>or leaving an abusive relationship or finding purpose and meaning

0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:17.440
<v Speaker 6>in our lives, and so it expands to bring all

0:34:17.520 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 6>of the things you're in a twelve step program, but

0:34:19.880 --> 0:34:22.960
<v Speaker 6>I guarantee you that you're also doing other things for

0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:25.359
<v Speaker 6>your self development. That this is one facet of it.

0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:29.440
<v Speaker 6>And that's really how the book conceptualizes recovery, which is

0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:32.239
<v Speaker 6>has to include the whole of your being, not just

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:35.880
<v Speaker 6>your spiritual path, not just your fellowship and community, not

0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 6>just your amends and your service, but really so many

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:39.880
<v Speaker 6>different things.

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:43.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, I can respect and appreciate that because I've

0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:46.200
<v Speaker 1>told people this, I've told Jana this and other brothers

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:48.680
<v Speaker 1>in the program. Is you know, I went to impatient

0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:52.680
<v Speaker 1>treatment for sixty days and which not everyone is able

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:57.240
<v Speaker 1>to do. And honestly, I have a lot of respect

0:34:57.280 --> 0:34:59.000
<v Speaker 1>for people that have gotten sober and not gone to

0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:02.759
<v Speaker 1>impatient because the amount of work, therapeutic work that you

0:35:02.840 --> 0:35:06.719
<v Speaker 1>do that's right and patient. For me, I wouldn't have

0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:10.319
<v Speaker 1>been able to get sober if I didn't do that,

0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:12.560
<v Speaker 1>if I didn't find out all that inside of me

0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:16.240
<v Speaker 1>and try to purge and start figuring out where everything

0:35:16.280 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 1>came from, which it sounds like I make up is

0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:21.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of like what you're doing where it's like, it's

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:23.920
<v Speaker 1>so much more than just showing up and being a

0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:26.960
<v Speaker 1>part of a community and stuff like that. So again,

0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:29.600
<v Speaker 1>I commend you for that, especially being someone that you

0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:31.920
<v Speaker 1>know is in a twelve step program. But do you

0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:34.640
<v Speaker 1>ever if you have a client or someone that you're

0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:38.080
<v Speaker 1>working with and maybe something just isn't working, do you

0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:40.120
<v Speaker 1>ever suggest twelve steps?

0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 5>Is that ever we suggest it?

0:35:42.040 --> 0:35:42.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:44.799
<v Speaker 6>We suggest everybody try everything and they make up their

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:45.560
<v Speaker 6>own mind about it.

0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:46.200
<v Speaker 1>That's great.

0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:48.280
<v Speaker 6>So there's people that you know, we use our program

0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.680
<v Speaker 6>that are also part of the fellowship. There's people that

0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:52.880
<v Speaker 6>have moved, you know, through it and don't find it

0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:56.960
<v Speaker 6>useful anymore, or felt it couldn't work and have left it.

0:35:57.000 --> 0:35:58.880
<v Speaker 6>There's people that are afraid to try it, that this

0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:03.360
<v Speaker 6>is a soft landing that then maybe progresses and evolves

0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:05.680
<v Speaker 6>into their wanting to try it. And so I think

0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:08.600
<v Speaker 6>it's just there's it's it's again, I think we've done

0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:11.640
<v Speaker 6>ourselves such a disservice by saying there's either just this

0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:13.799
<v Speaker 6>one place over there and it's either good or bad,

0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:16.960
<v Speaker 6>and then there's these other things, and really there's there's

0:36:16.960 --> 0:36:20.239
<v Speaker 6>a whole constellation of ways for people to find themselves.

0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:24.240
<v Speaker 6>And I think it's really important that people understand some things,

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:26.680
<v Speaker 6>like they can pick and choose, and they can outgrow

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:30.560
<v Speaker 6>or they can grow into and so it's it's so

0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:32.880
<v Speaker 6>empowering when we're able to really look at this and

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:35.320
<v Speaker 6>be able, you know, first of all, to acknowledge every

0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:38.360
<v Speaker 6>other person's choices. We're so different, you know, you and

0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 6>I are so different and not the same things are

0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:43.239
<v Speaker 6>going to work. And at the same time, we've done

0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:47.480
<v Speaker 6>this disservice to ourselves by thinking that that if I

0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:50.040
<v Speaker 6>choose a different way, it's an affront to your choice,

0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:51.640
<v Speaker 6>or it means your choice is wrong.

0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:54.440
<v Speaker 5>Your choice is Like that's just not the truth.

0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:57.080
<v Speaker 6>When I was critical, I've written a lot about AA

0:36:57.840 --> 0:37:01.200
<v Speaker 6>and my closest friends are you know in AA.

0:37:01.000 --> 0:37:04.960
<v Speaker 5>And like it's just it doesn't undermine their choice. It

0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.560
<v Speaker 5>doesn't make what they've done any less or any more.

0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:11.680
<v Speaker 6>And I think that we had we do have a

0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:14.960
<v Speaker 6>habit of saying, well, this.

0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:17.279
<v Speaker 5>Reflects on your choice, reflects on me, and that's just

0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:19.319
<v Speaker 5>not the case. Like we have to support each other.

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:22.120
<v Speaker 5>I don't care what you do like I should.

0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean I I totally

0:37:28.120 --> 0:37:30.239
<v Speaker 2>hear you on that and I took a lot from that,

0:37:30.280 --> 0:37:32.400
<v Speaker 2>even just from the other side, Like you know, I

0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:34.680
<v Speaker 2>have friends that go to alan On and it's I mean,

0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 2>it's their their place that they're able to heal. I mean,

0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:39.200
<v Speaker 2>we just I just had the conversation with a few

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:42.320
<v Speaker 2>friends the other day. But like when I tried essen On,

0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 2>it just wasn't for me, Like I didn't I tried.

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:46.640
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I was angry. I was I didn't

0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:48.719
<v Speaker 2>like it at all. And it's like, yeah, I found

0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:51.319
<v Speaker 2>my piece is through my therapist, and I found a

0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:54.160
<v Speaker 2>friend that she sponsors a bunch of people. I don't

0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:57.160
<v Speaker 2>really call her my sponsor, but whenever I get that angst,

0:37:57.239 --> 0:37:58.960
<v Speaker 2>I you know, I either call her or I call

0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:02.160
<v Speaker 2>my therapists. And because every time I'm like, well, I'm

0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:03.920
<v Speaker 2>told that I have to go to Essenon if I'm

0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:05.960
<v Speaker 2>a sex addict's wife. So I go and I sit

0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:08.360
<v Speaker 2>in his rooms and I'm like, I'm angry at my

0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 2>husband right now, I hate myself and I don't like

0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:14.640
<v Speaker 2>it here. And I leave crying and just like depressed

0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:17.000
<v Speaker 2>and defeated, and I'm like, wait a minute, like I

0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:19.200
<v Speaker 2>it's okay to not be in the program, and still

0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 2>be doing your work, so I can get it from

0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 2>like valid too.

0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:26.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's valid, it doesn't mean you're not doing it right.

0:38:26.200 --> 0:38:27.840
<v Speaker 6>And that was the thing I had to really overcome,

0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:29.600
<v Speaker 6>was I got I had a lot of people who

0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:32.560
<v Speaker 6>just expected, oh, if you have an addiction, you do AA,

0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:36.680
<v Speaker 6>if you have an addiction, you do NA or essay

0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:39.280
<v Speaker 6>or whatever, any of the millions of dulls to problems

0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 6>that there now, and I I just it was so invalid.

0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:44.960
<v Speaker 6>I was like, but wait a minute, I'm actually taking

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.400
<v Speaker 6>I'm the one taking the steps to do something about this,

0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:51.319
<v Speaker 6>and any step I'm taking is the work. And we

0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:53.960
<v Speaker 6>do have this idea that if you're not doing this

0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 6>one thing, then it's it's you, you know, not doing

0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:00.640
<v Speaker 6>your part and your part of the cup read you know,

0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:03.160
<v Speaker 6>be it a you know, a wife of a sex

0:39:03.200 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 6>adductor or a you know, daughter of you know, someone

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.120
<v Speaker 6>with a drinking problem, so it's you.

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:12.719
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah, so is with with kind of the program,

0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:16.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, the customizable program approach, holistic approach that you

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:19.400
<v Speaker 1>are advocating for, is it still black and white in

0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:23.560
<v Speaker 1>the sense of if you're dealing with alcohol, it's you

0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.440
<v Speaker 1>don't drink or you drink like there's no in between,

0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Like there's no in moderation. It's still like if you're

0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:31.680
<v Speaker 1>trying to get clean, there's no drinking at all.

0:39:32.040 --> 0:39:34.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So I think that's also not helpful.

0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:39.279
<v Speaker 6>Abstinence only methods like or not for everybody, and so

0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:43.080
<v Speaker 6>at harm reduction is so important, and I think that

0:39:43.280 --> 0:39:45.160
<v Speaker 6>everybody has to find like the point of what we're

0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:47.000
<v Speaker 6>trying to do, right is still the truth to ourselves,

0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:47.920
<v Speaker 6>not prove something.

0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:48.400
<v Speaker 5>To anyone else.

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:52.640
<v Speaker 6>And we really like what we encourage. What I encourage

0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:55.160
<v Speaker 6>it for people just to remember that they told some

0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.000
<v Speaker 6>truth to themselves somewhere along the way and that they're

0:39:58.000 --> 0:40:01.239
<v Speaker 6>going to keep doing that, and that that is the point, right,

0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 6>like of where what decisions you make for yourself.

0:40:05.719 --> 0:40:07.640
<v Speaker 2>I would just like to say too, just to you know,

0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:10.640
<v Speaker 2>the only reason why I drink red wine is because

0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:13.000
<v Speaker 2>I've been told by my doctor that it actually has benefits.

0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:15.560
<v Speaker 2>Like I won't drink any other do I drink any

0:40:15.560 --> 0:40:19.319
<v Speaker 2>other alcohol? And if I heard that, Yeah, but if

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:21.399
<v Speaker 2>I heard that red wine was like actually not good

0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:24.000
<v Speaker 2>for your heart, then I'd be like, Okay, I'm not

0:40:24.080 --> 0:40:26.600
<v Speaker 2>drinking anymore because you know me, I'm so like health conscious,

0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:37.640
<v Speaker 2>So really there to everyone, buy one brick at wines

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:38.160
<v Speaker 2>dot com.

0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:43.879
<v Speaker 6>Those studies were based on we're typically run on mail

0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 6>on men, and there are healthful components of found in

0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:50.080
<v Speaker 6>red wine, but.

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:51.040
<v Speaker 2>The list of.

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:55.160
<v Speaker 5>Adverse effects are prey long.

0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:59.400
<v Speaker 2>And so I would I think, but so is sugars

0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:02.120
<v Speaker 2>and cars, and like that's like yeah, and that's where

0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:05.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm just like, God, like everything is bad. Everything will

0:41:05.360 --> 0:41:08.080
<v Speaker 2>turn into like you now you gotta the cheese is

0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:09.920
<v Speaker 2>bad for your gut, and this is bad for that,

0:41:09.960 --> 0:41:11.760
<v Speaker 2>and you know the pasta that you eat is gonna

0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:13.640
<v Speaker 2>like that's bad for you too. And I'm just like,

0:41:13.719 --> 0:41:15.640
<v Speaker 2>I like, it's just too much.

0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:18.600
<v Speaker 6>You know, it is too much, and and that in

0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:21.280
<v Speaker 6>of itself is its own problem and own sickness.

0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 5>I think, like this is what Here's what I would

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:23.960
<v Speaker 5>say to that. Doctors.

0:41:24.040 --> 0:41:26.440
<v Speaker 6>I've worked in healthcare, and you know, I dated doctors,

0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:29.719
<v Speaker 6>were friends of doctors. Doctors, aren't you know doctors have

0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:31.960
<v Speaker 6>their their own opinions. You know, doctors often go to

0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:33.719
<v Speaker 6>twelve step programs as part of their training. They're not

0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:38.160
<v Speaker 6>addiction medicine. They're not reading the different studies on alcohol,

0:41:39.440 --> 0:41:41.440
<v Speaker 6>and so what I would say is do your research

0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:43.520
<v Speaker 6>on it on whether or not like red wine isn't

0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:45.439
<v Speaker 6>any different, it's still is ethanol in it. It's still

0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.799
<v Speaker 6>as you know, as still as it's still the same thing.

0:41:48.520 --> 0:41:50.880
<v Speaker 6>And recently there was an article that showed a truck

0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:54.560
<v Speaker 6>driving on a handle of Tito's vodka, like literally they

0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:55.720
<v Speaker 6>just put a Tito's vodecan.

0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:58.200
<v Speaker 5>And so we do want to do our own research.

0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:00.239
<v Speaker 6>We do want to understand and there's plenty of it

0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:05.440
<v Speaker 6>out there now around the impacts on the body. But

0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:08.680
<v Speaker 6>you're exactly right as well, which is there is there's

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:10.759
<v Speaker 6>there is so many ways that we're told that we

0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.399
<v Speaker 6>you know, have to be how we have to eat

0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:18.440
<v Speaker 6>and live, and that like idea of like perfection is

0:42:18.960 --> 0:42:21.920
<v Speaker 6>in of itself really problematic. You know, we have to

0:42:21.920 --> 0:42:24.200
<v Speaker 6>make our own choices. And I think like there's there's

0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:27.920
<v Speaker 6>also just this I always like to say, know what

0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:32.399
<v Speaker 6>you can't f with, like know what you cannot mess with,

0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:36.480
<v Speaker 6>And I think that we have to open the door

0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:39.120
<v Speaker 6>to be able to look at the things in our

0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:41.680
<v Speaker 6>lives that are actually really hurting us.

0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:43.239
<v Speaker 5>You know, Gwyneth Paltrow like.

0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:46.200
<v Speaker 6>Smokes a cigarette a week or I've read that she

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:47.680
<v Speaker 6>I don't know she still does, but there was a

0:42:47.680 --> 0:42:49.040
<v Speaker 6>while where she was talking about how she has one

0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 6>American spirit on a Friday, you know, And so I

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:54.839
<v Speaker 6>mean that's very different than somebody that's smoking, you know,

0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:57.880
<v Speaker 6>twenty cigarettes a day. But there's also a lot of

0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:01.680
<v Speaker 6>gray area between those two things. And so I think

0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:04.440
<v Speaker 6>it's really important that people ask themselves, is this negatively

0:43:04.480 --> 0:43:06.680
<v Speaker 6>impacting me? Or do I know what it is that

0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:08.440
<v Speaker 6>I'm putting in my body again so I can make

0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:11.759
<v Speaker 6>these choices. That really is where it's at. This isn't

0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:14.720
<v Speaker 6>about oh, you can't drink anymore, like women can't drink anymore.

0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:16.600
<v Speaker 6>It's not like the point of this. This is really

0:43:16.640 --> 0:43:20.200
<v Speaker 6>the earth how it shows up in our lives.

0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:20.600
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Before we let you go, Holly, what's one thing to

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:25.520
<v Speaker 1>give to our listeners, Like, what's the one thing for

0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:29.000
<v Speaker 1>you personally that you do that just on a daily

0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:33.080
<v Speaker 1>basis that recenters yourself. Is it a morning routine? Is

0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:35.560
<v Speaker 1>it something that you do just to kind of you know,

0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:37.080
<v Speaker 1>share that with our listeners.

0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:40.040
<v Speaker 5>I meditate. I do have a pastma meditation.

0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:43.920
<v Speaker 6>Now I've been through I have really dedicated my that

0:43:44.000 --> 0:43:46.120
<v Speaker 6>has been the cornerstone of my recovery. And I've been

0:43:46.360 --> 0:43:49.880
<v Speaker 6>to like ten days silent workshops I've been to. I mean,

0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:52.960
<v Speaker 6>I've done at all and I've really landed in as

0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:56.360
<v Speaker 6>and going because the PASTAA instruction, and that's what I

0:43:56.360 --> 0:43:58.880
<v Speaker 6>do every day and it's extremely helpful and beneficial.

0:43:59.200 --> 0:43:59.799
<v Speaker 5>That's my thing.

0:44:00.160 --> 0:44:02.000
<v Speaker 1>I love it. Have you ever done ayahuasca?

0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:03.560
<v Speaker 3>No?

0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:07.239
<v Speaker 6>I have not, No, but plant medicine is you know,

0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:08.920
<v Speaker 6>has its place in addiction recovery.

0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, where can our listeners find you and your book

0:44:13.080 --> 0:44:14.680
<v Speaker 1>and everything else they need to know?

0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:20.279
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and so I mostly currently contribute on Instagram, So

0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 6>it's that, Holly, and you can buy my book. Please

0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:27.920
<v Speaker 6>look at independent booksellers. Please look at your local favorite bookstore.

0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:30.600
<v Speaker 6>You can go to Target, you can go to Barnes

0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:33.520
<v Speaker 6>and Noble, you can go to Amazon. It's everywhere. It's

0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:34.520
<v Speaker 6>called quit like a woman.

0:44:35.160 --> 0:44:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Awesome. Well, thank you so much Holly for coming on

0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:38.400
<v Speaker 2>wine down. We really appreciate it.

0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Appreciate it.

0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:41.279
<v Speaker 5>Great conversation.

0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:42.319
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, thanks Holly, thank you. Well that was some good combos.

0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, it was really interesting and I just

0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I appreciated her her delivery on things and just you know,

0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.719
<v Speaker 1>making it known that it's okay for people to have

0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:04.319
<v Speaker 1>different methods of getting somewhere, and especially her point. I mean,

0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:06.759
<v Speaker 1>this just rains true for so many things across the

0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:11.279
<v Speaker 1>board about just because your way of doing things is

0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:14.399
<v Speaker 1>different than mine doesn't mean one's wrong, one's wrong or right.

0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:14.719
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:17.120
<v Speaker 1>It's just I respect that, and I think that the

0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:19.520
<v Speaker 1>world and the country especially right now needs more of

0:45:19.560 --> 0:45:21.120
<v Speaker 1>that kind of mindset for sure.

0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:24.759
<v Speaker 2>And I also think too, like sometimes it just can

0:45:24.800 --> 0:45:27.520
<v Speaker 2>be so overwhelming where it's like this is bad for you,

0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:28.719
<v Speaker 2>this is bad for you, this is bad for you.

0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Can't have that, that's bad for you, And it's just

0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:33.319
<v Speaker 2>like just you know, do your own research and then

0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:36.600
<v Speaker 2>don't overdo it and see how it's serving you as well,

0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:41.879
<v Speaker 2>you know. I mean, we're all smart, right, but love

0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:46.080
<v Speaker 2>you guys, And I'm excited. We've got some really amazing

0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:48.239
<v Speaker 2>podcasts coming up. I mean, just to tease a few,

0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:53.240
<v Speaker 2>James Lafferty, Stephen Coletti, which you know for my Tree Hillers,

0:45:54.239 --> 0:45:58.640
<v Speaker 2>we've got Tiger Wood's mistress, so that's going to be

0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:03.880
<v Speaker 2>a very intense kind of conversation. And I also have

0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:07.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a spoiler one of the winners

0:46:07.880 --> 0:46:10.200
<v Speaker 2>from the bachelort seasons also is going to be on

0:46:10.320 --> 0:46:13.520
<v Speaker 2>and I'm super pumped to talk to him. It's going

0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:15.320
<v Speaker 2>to be y'all, stay tuned.