1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 2: We have a special episode today because there's a new 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: book coming out and it is called No More Tears, 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: The Dark Secrets of Johnson and Johnson and I have 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: been reading through this book and I feel like for anybody, 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 2: it's shocking. I think for someone who is a mom, 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: someone who took birth control for years of my life, 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: someone who's a cancer survivor and has reconstructive surgery and 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: breast in plants, like all of this is somewhat terrifying 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: to me. And then I look at what the future 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 2: could be with dementia and all of the things that 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: happened in your body. And this is all covered in 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: this book in such a shocking way from a brand 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: that we have put on the side of the bathtub 15 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: from the time we were tiny little babies until you know, 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 2: the nursing home. And I have Gardner Harris here today 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: to talk to me about it. He is the author 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: of the book, and he previously served as the public 19 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: health and pharmaceutical reporter for the New York Times and 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal. Now he's a freelance investigative journalist. 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: I read that you took five years to do this 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: book I did. 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, it took me a long time. I've made some 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: mistakes along the way. It wasn't just but yeah, mostly 25 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 3: because there are, you know, thousands of documents that I 26 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 3: had to go through, hundreds of thousands of pages, and 27 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 3: I interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people. 28 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: And that's why I bring up that it was five 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: years because you can tell, I mean, when you read 30 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: through this it's so well documented. And I think that 31 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: is the stunning part about it. It was obviously a 32 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: passion project for you to get to the truth, to 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: find out what was really going on and truly expose it. 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: And the timing of this book with RFK Junior at 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: the Helm of Health and Human Services, it must be 36 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: inspiring for you, I would assume to see that. 37 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: Sure. I mean, I think he is certainly someone for 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: whom a lot of the themes in this book will resonate. 39 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 3: I think, I mean, Tutor, it's interesting. I mean, you 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 3: are the perfect person to talk to this about because 41 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: the point of this book really is to go through 42 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 3: Johnson and Johnson is the most important healthcare product company 43 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 3: in the world, and going through its history is really 44 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: a roadmap for people like you to really protect yourself 45 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: and your family. I want people to sort of see 46 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: in each part of the healthcare system what can happen, 47 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 3: how it can go wrong, And as you walk through this, 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: hopefully you can figure out the people you can trust 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 3: and the people you can't trust. And you know, one 50 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 3: of the things I'm doing, Tutor, is I'm putting all 51 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 3: of these documents on my web page so you can 52 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 3: do your own research. This is all primary stuff. You 53 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: can read all the trial transcripts, you can walk through 54 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 3: all of the internal documents yourself. The one set of 55 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 3: documents that I'm not putting on there are the grand 56 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: jury files that I have. Those are secrets. It's illegal 57 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 3: for me to have them. It was illegal for people 58 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 3: to give them to me. I don't want to provide 59 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 3: any clues to investigators to find my sources. But everything 60 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 3: else is online and you can do this work yourself. 61 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: So let's dig in because I as well. At the 62 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: end of the book, you say something about Johnson and Johnson. 63 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: You compare Johnson and Johnson to the mafia, but you 64 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: say that it's worse because they prayed on the most vulnerable. 65 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: And I want to be careful. I feel like I 66 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: have to be so careful with this conversation because I 67 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: don't want there to be a massive mascessary of people 68 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: who say I will never trust a company ever again. 69 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: Because there are life saving medications that come out of 70 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: this company and great products, but should they not be 71 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: held accountable for the countless deaths that they've also caused. 72 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: I mean, it's such a it's such a double edged 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: short to talk about the subject, because it's shocking. I mean, 74 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 2: even from the start of the Taile and all disaster, 75 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: it's like, you you know, I grew up in the 76 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 2: Chicago area, so I was reading about that and I 77 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: can remember this discussion happening. 78 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: And this was such a tragedy. 79 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: They were they were alauded as like, oh, this great 80 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 2: company that came in and saved it. But then you 81 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: read that they had so many warnings that this was 82 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 2: going to happen and they could have stopped it, but 83 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: they didn't because of cost. 84 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 3: Well, because it's I mean, what you know, one of 85 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: the things that everyone who goes to Harvard Business School, 86 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: everyone who goes to the Wharton School. In the first 87 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 3: month at those schools, you get this case study of 88 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 3: how Johnson and Johnson handled the nineteen eighty two Tile 89 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 3: and Hall poisoning scare, and it is widely considered by 90 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 3: far the best corporate response to a crisis ever. And 91 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 3: that's what business school students are always taught, That's what 92 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 3: communications schools students are always taught. And what I wanted 93 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 3: to do is go through that story again and show 94 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: that that's not actually true. That the company did a 95 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: lot of things that are not particularly ethical. I mean, 96 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 3: one of them, of course, is that they almost certainly 97 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: were paying the FDA commissioner at the time. You know, 98 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: every FDA commissioner in modern history has gone to work 99 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: for pharmaceutical manufacturers after they left office, many worked for 100 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: them beforehand. Or Hayes Junior, the commissioner at the time, 101 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: is the only one who was taking money as far 102 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: as we know, from Johnson and Johnson and other pharmaceutical 103 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: companies at the time he was commissioner. 104 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: So let me take you now back. 105 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 3: We don't actually know that it was Johnson and Johnson, 106 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 3: but we know that he was taking money from Johnson 107 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 3: and Johnson afterward, and we know that he was taking 108 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: money from some unnamed pharmaceutical company while he was commissioner. 109 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: It never actually came out, which but it's it's hard 110 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 3: not to speculate that it was likely Johnson and Johnson. 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: You know, look, Tutor, I want to urge people to 112 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: get this book while they can, because you know, Johnson 113 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 3: and Johnson is basically a law firm with a drug 114 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 3: and a device company attached. They have spent thirty five 115 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 3: billion dollars since twenty eleven on legal services. They basically 116 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 3: have every major corporate law firm working for them. They 117 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: sue everyone, and so you know, it's this project was 118 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 3: always a little bit of a suicide project. Everyone I 119 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 3: talked to about it, many of them my old friends, 120 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: were like, Gardner, you're crazy, Like do you know what 121 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: kind of lawyers these people have? Why are you doing this? 122 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: And that's what I thought. I'm like, how is he 123 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: going to get away with putting this out? 124 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: I mean, this is That's how much I know about 125 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: how dangerous these companies are. And I think innately we 126 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: all kind of know that because I'm reading this and 127 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: I'm like, this guy is going to end up suicided, 128 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: Like how did he? How is he so brave to 129 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: do this? 130 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: So it's a miracle that this got through random House's lawyers. 131 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: It took weeks. A huge amount of the book ended 132 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 3: up falling out. But to be clear, Random House is 133 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: British subsidiary will not publish this book. We're still in 134 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: discussions with the Indian one. But you know this is 135 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: not being published almost anywhere else because of the legal risks. 136 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: Wow. And I can completely understand why. I mean, you 137 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: you just talked about the bribing of the FDA commissioner, 138 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: but it's really you go into detail about the bribing 139 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: of America's doctors. And it's funny because when I first 140 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 2: got into the corporate world, I was working in manufacturing, 141 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: but so many of my friends were selling drugs, selling 142 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: drugs for pharmaceutical companies. You know, it sounds bad, but 143 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,359 Speaker 2: they were the salespeople for the big for big Pharma. 144 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: And that was exactly how it was. 145 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: Every day was a they were going from one place 146 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: to another with a big thing of panera or you know, 147 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,479 Speaker 2: whatever the big food item. 148 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: Was of the day. 149 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: They would provide a massive line. She would go to 150 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: the doctor's office and they had a huge spread of food. 151 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: All the nurses were taking food. 152 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 2: They were giving out free drugs, and you would go 153 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: to the doctor and they say, oh, well, I have 154 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 2: a free sample. 155 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: You try it and then. 156 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: Come back to me and tell me how it is. 157 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: I remember this so clearly. 158 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: And these kids. 159 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: I was working in manufacturing and you know, we're probably 160 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: a normal couple trying to figure out life. And my 161 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 2: friends who were working at Big Pharma, they were getting 162 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: fancy cars. They were just a local salesperson in western 163 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: Michigan and they were bringing in bang. 164 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 3: It's a hugely profitable way of going. As I point 165 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 3: out in the book, basically nothing the pharmaceutical industry did 166 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 3: was more remunerative, more profitable than giving money and foods 167 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 3: to doctors. Every penny that they spent on doctors they 168 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 3: got back fourfold in in drug sales, and of course 169 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 3: it led doctors. Every study that's been done on this 170 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 3: practice has shown that it makes doctors worse at their jobs. 171 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 3: And it's going on today, Tutor. I mean, there is 172 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: the Physician Payment Sunshine Act, which passed because of my 173 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 3: stories back in the day, shows that pharmaceutical companies to 174 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:31,119 Speaker 3: this day are giving doctors two point three billion dollars annually, 175 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: mostly in cash. And these are quasi consulting relationships, but 176 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 3: basically they are hidden ways of just paying doctors for 177 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: their prescriptions. And you know, I walked through case after case. 178 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: This is how the opioid crisis took off, of course, Tutor. 179 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 3: As you know, it's how we can talk about the 180 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 3: antipsychotic crisis, which is twice as bad as the opioid 181 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: crisis and is going on right now. We can talk 182 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: about the epo crisis in cancer, you know, close to 183 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 3: your heart, which is about the size of the opioid 184 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 3: crisis in terms of the number of people who were killed. 185 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: And in case after case after case after case. You know, 186 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 3: it's doctors taking money and prescribing drugs in dangerous ways 187 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 3: as a result. But it's not just doctors, Tutor. Of course. 188 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 3: You know, as we go through the baby powder stuff, 189 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: you will see that countless top notch corporate lawyers are 190 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 3: knowingly lying in federal court about trying to hide the 191 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 3: fact that asbestos has been found in baby powder for 192 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: as long as. 193 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: It's been made, causing an answer. 194 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: Causing cancer, causing countless women, probably more than one hundred 195 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 3: thousand women to die of ovarian can answer is the 196 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 3: best epidemiological estimate. 197 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: It's just shocking to me. 198 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: I mean, as I'm reading through this, I read through 199 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: all of the facts that they're doing all of these trials, 200 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 2: and you think about all the drugs that the FDA 201 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: does not approve, and they're going through all these trials, 202 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: and the trials are proving that the product is bad. 203 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: And yet they have lobbyists and like you said, they've 204 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: got law firms, they own Washington, they own the FDA. 205 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: Essentially they can get things through no matter what. And 206 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: that I was reading about the mesh that they use 207 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: in the hernias that you have in there, that they said, Okay, 208 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: you know women have these prolapsed bladders. They're going to 209 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 2: use this mesh to And these are just facts, folks. 210 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 2: I know this is a hard discussion to have. People 211 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 2: don't want to hear about it. I've had four kids. 212 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: You certainly things change inside your body, you know. And 213 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: they went to women and they saw, we've got a 214 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: better way of lifting up your black better so that 215 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 2: you don't have this prolapsed bladder. 216 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: Your insights are going to be much better. They use 217 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: this mesh. 218 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 2: And I think the most it's just shocking when you 219 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: read about this, and it makes me get emotional because 220 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 2: I was like, they knew this was happening to women. 221 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: And the most shocking part is that the women are 222 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: getting sick, they have infections. 223 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: They know that they're getting infections. 224 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: But then they kill thousands of women around the world too. 225 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: They're hundreds and hundreds. 226 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: Of thousands, and Johnson and Johnson knows, and they do 227 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 2: nothing about it. According to your book, they go, well, 228 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: you know. 229 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: What did they know? They knew before they started selling this. 230 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 3: They had research that showed that it for about a 231 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 3: third of women, it was going to make it impossible 232 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 3: for them to have vaginal sex again in their lives. 233 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 3: It was essentially going to rip their vaginal walls for 234 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: the rest of their lives, that they would leak blood, 235 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 3: you'd never be able to wear a skirt, you never, 236 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: you would always have to have pads. And they knew 237 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 3: this before they started selling it. And in fact, you know, 238 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: as I walk through in the book, you know, vaginal 239 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: mesh is the next to last product I talk about. 240 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 3: COVID nineteen is of course the last one. But what 241 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: Johnson and Johnson does is first they they lie tot FDA, 242 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: and then with vaginal mesh, they don't even bother to lie. 243 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 3: They don't even ask FDA for permission to sell it. 244 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: They just start selling it and FDA doesn't really find 245 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: out what's going on for years. 246 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 4: But what I show in the book is that FDA 247 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 4: does basically nothing each time it catches Johnson and Johnson 248 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 4: in one of these you know, criminal. 249 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 3: Situations. And that's because Johnson and Johnson another story I 250 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 3: tell saved FDA in twenty twelve, got FDA the money 251 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: it needed through Congress, and FDA paid Johnson and Johnson 252 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 3: back again and again and again and again by not 253 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 3: going after it when the company clearly was doing wrong things, 254 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 3: and by in fact putting out statements just before Johnson 255 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 3: and Johnson was was going to trial and was someone 256 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: was going to take them to account, and FDA would 257 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: put out a statement in support of Johnson and Johnson, 258 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: just sort of out of the blue. It did this 259 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 3: in baby powder, It did this with rispirt All. It 260 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: did this with opioids. You know. One of the things 261 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 3: that we talk about I talk about in the book. 262 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 3: Of course, everybody knows about the opioid crisis. Everyone knows 263 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 3: that Purdue Pharma and the Sacklers were to blame. Well 264 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: that's just not true. You have to ask yourself why 265 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 3: you think that of the bodies that showed up in 266 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 3: Morge during the prescription opioid crisis, you know, we're now 267 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: in the fentanyl crisis. By the way, fentanyl is a 268 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 3: Johnson and Johnson drug, but we're now in the in 269 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 3: the original prescription crisis, about ten percent of the bodies 270 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: that showed up in Mortge, how to Purdue Pharma product 271 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 3: in their system. Sixty percent had a J and J 272 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 3: product in their system. No one knows this. Why don't 273 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 3: you know it? It's because this company is everywhere in 274 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: the health system, in the political system, and in media. 275 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: You know, I worked at the New York Times. I 276 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: worked at the Wall Street Journal. As you know, Tutor, 277 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: I take both of those publications to task for failing 278 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: again and again and again to tell this story. 279 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: We've got more coming up with Gardner Harris, but first 280 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: I want to tell you a little bit about my 281 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: partners at American Alternative. 282 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: I know you guys are seeing the stock. 283 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: Market going up and down, and that can be scary, 284 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 2: but that's why you need to think about the stability 285 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: of gold. I'm excited about my newest sponsor, American Alternative 286 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: Assets they take a different approach to precious metals. 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Don't wait until it's too late, protect 302 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 2: your wealth and secure your future today. That's eight seven 303 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: seven five to two gold or visit tutors goold dot com. 304 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: Now stick around, We've got more after this. 305 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: You're talking about death and destroyed lives, and obviously death 306 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 2: is destroying everybody's life around that person too. But even 307 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: the products like the vaginal mesh that you were just 308 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: talking about. When you say these women can never have 309 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: sex again. I think the most striking comment was the 310 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 2: woman you interviewed who said, I never thought that this 311 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 2: would be the end of my life at seventy one. 312 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: Years old and the end of my marriage. 313 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: And that was so sad to me because the husband 314 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: described this as making love to a wire brush. This 315 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: is what this company did to people, and they get 316 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: away with it, and this was like twenty years That's 317 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 2: the shocking thing to me is like this started in 318 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 2: the late nineties and the FDA doesn't really say we're 319 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 2: done until twenty nineteen. 320 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: Right, How that's right? And look, other countries pulled the 321 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 3: vaginal mesh, like the Australians. It's an interesting thing that 322 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 3: vaginal mesh in Australia was an enormous scandal, a huge 323 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 3: controversy that the Prime Minister addressed that the Senate in 324 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 3: Australia launched an investigation of They actually created clinics just 325 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 3: for women who had had vaginal mesh inserted, and they 326 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 3: forced Johnson and Johnson to take this product off the 327 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 3: market seven years before the FDA did so. And they 328 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 3: both knew all the same information. Why was the FDA 329 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 3: so much slower? 330 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: But also, I mean doesn't that you just said, you've 331 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: took You've taken your old media outlets to task for 332 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 2: stuff like this. But this does sound like something that 333 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 2: you think happens in China or Russia, where the people 334 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: are so so insulated that they don't actually get to 335 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: hear the truth because the state media can control whether 336 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: or not the people know what's actually happening to them Medically, 337 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: it seems impossible that with a free press, that this 338 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: could happen in the United States of America, and that 339 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: no one. No one's saying, man, these women are suffering horrendously. 340 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: There's never a documentary, there's nothing exposing me. I mean, 341 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 2: it's just it's just totally shocking. And as I'm reading 342 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 2: about these other medications, the rispered doll is that how you. 343 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: Say it, right? 344 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 3: Yep? 345 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 2: That one also, I mean the link of that finding 346 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: out that this is not good for elderly patients. They're 347 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: using it for dementia, they're using it for Alzheimer's, they 348 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: know it's not good. It also is making these patients 349 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: more susceptible to respiratory illness COVID hits patients are taking 350 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 2: this drug Johnson and Johnson knows the combination is the 351 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 2: most deadly combination they can have. 352 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: They no one says anything. Where's the media? 353 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 4: Right? 354 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 3: And to this day, no one has looked the United 355 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 3: States for terrible death in its nursing homes, much worse 356 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 3: than any other country. The United States also uses Risperdol 357 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 3: and other antipsychotics in nursing home patients, much more than 358 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 3: any other country. These drugs the reason, one of the 359 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 3: great reasons they kill you is by making, as you said, 360 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 3: you more susceptible to respiratory infection. COVID nineteen is a 361 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: respiratory infection. Why did all these people get wiped out 362 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 3: in nursing homes? Well? Was it because so many of 363 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 3: them were being inappropriately given Risperdol and these other drugs. 364 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 3: You know, as I have the Grand jury files on 365 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 3: the Risperdol investigation right, And what I go through is 366 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 3: that Johnson and Johnson basically told psychiatrists and other doctors, 367 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 3: don't worry. You can continue to give risperdol to your 368 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 3: patients even if you kill them, and no one will know. 369 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: No one will be able to catch you because you 370 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: die from ursperdol the same way you die other ways, 371 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 3: like you get heart attacks and strokes, and you get infections, 372 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 3: and no one will be able to distinguish between those 373 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 3: who died because of risperdol and those who just died naturally. 374 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: But then they said, according to these grand jury files, 375 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 3: to cover your tracks, start diagnosing your dementia patients as 376 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 3: having late onset schizophrenia. Right there is no such thing 377 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 3: as late onset schizophrenia like nowhere, but psychiatrists across the 378 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 3: country start diagnosing their dementia and Alzheimer's patients as having 379 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 3: schizophrenia right now, tutor, At this moment, one in nine 380 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: nursing home patients in the United States is diagnosed with schizophrenia. Okay, 381 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 3: nearly all of those diagnoses are false. You know, no 382 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 3: more than one percent of the entire population is schizophrenic, 383 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 3: and nearly all schizophrenics die in their fifties. Schizophrenia itself 384 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 3: costs you about thirty years of life expectancy. So there 385 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 3: are almost no genuine schizophrenics in nursing homes, and yet 386 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 3: nearly fifteen percent of nursing home patients right now are 387 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: diagnosed with schizophrenia. As a top person from the FDA 388 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 3: told me off the record, this is mass euthanasia with 389 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 3: plausible deniability. 390 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: And the drug is not even doing what they say 391 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: it's supposed to do. 392 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 3: No, of course not it does. 393 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: Just a cash cow, is that what it is? 394 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: Sure? Johnson and Johnson made more than one hundred billion 395 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 3: dollars on that drug. And you know, and here's the thing, Tutor, 396 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 3: Johnson and Johnson was the lead of making these what 397 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: are known as typical antipsychotics. There were four other companies 398 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 3: that made them. Every single one of those companies pleaded 399 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 3: guilty to charges that they were bribing psychiatrists and others 400 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 3: to prescribe these drugs in inappropriate ways. So here's the thing. 401 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: If you know a psychiatrist who's about fifty or older, 402 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 3: they were participants in the largest costliest and deadliest criminal 403 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: conspiracies in American history. That's not hyperbole. Like the number 404 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 3: I have this estimate there at least a million patients 405 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 3: have died. Another epidemiologist estimated its upwards of six million, 406 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 3: So it's a huge amount of death. Again, like a 407 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 3: huge share of the nation's psychiatrists were part of this. 408 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 3: Because every single company involved in this situation plead it 409 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 3: guilty to bribing them. This is not just a small 410 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 3: number of psychiatrists. The Grand Jury files show nearly everyone participated. 411 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more of my conversation with Gardner Harris, 412 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: but first let me tell you about my partners at IFCJ. 413 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: Israel is still under attack. 414 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 2: Missile fire has resumed from the Huthi's Husbillah and hamas 415 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: enemies seeking Israel's destruction. Here in America, we can't imagine 416 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 2: living under the constant threat of terrorism and rocket attacks, 417 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: but this is the reality in Israel. Parents are taking 418 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: their children to school and then falling on the ground 419 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: to lay on top of their small children, trying to 420 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: comfort them as sirens blair. The next attack is happening 421 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 2: against Israel right now, and with little time to prepare, 422 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 2: we must act now, and that's why I'm partnering with 423 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 2: the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews to help provide 424 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 2: life saving aid and security essentials. Your urgently needed gift 425 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: today will help provide security essentials like bomb shelters, flack jackets, 426 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: and bulletproof vest for first responders, armored security vehicles, ambulances 427 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: and more. Join me in standing with Israel. Call to 428 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: make your gift at eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ. 429 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 2: That's eight eight eight four eight eight four three two five, 430 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 2: or go online at SUPPORTIFCJ dot org to give it's 431 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: one word support IFCJ dot org. Now stay tuned, We've 432 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: got more right after this. I've told this story a 433 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: couple of times. About maybe a year or two years ago, 434 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 2: I met a man at a conference and he came 435 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 2: up to me and he said, Hey, I hear that 436 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: you're in Michigan. I think you could help us out 437 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 2: in Michigan. We're really trying to get into Michigan. We 438 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 2: run a company that make sure that patients who can't 439 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: afford pharmaceuticals get them for free. 440 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: Said what do you mean. He said, well, you know. 441 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 2: The pharmaceutical companies want to get them onto these meds, 442 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 2: so they will give them to them for free. And 443 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 2: I said, explain to me what you mean. Well, they 444 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 2: figure that if they can get one person on the family, 445 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: their goal is to get every person on the family 446 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 2: on a pharmaceutical. So if they can get one person, 447 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: even if they can't afford it, eventually they'll get the 448 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: payment for the drug. So once they get one person 449 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: on a pharmaceutical, they can get the rest of the 450 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 2: family on a pharmaceutical and I was horrified. 451 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: I said, is that really you want to represent that? Wow? 452 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 2: I mean this has helped, this is helping to save lives, 453 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 2: but now we're talking about little kids. 454 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: They're getting little kids on medication that. 455 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: I read your book and I say, and that's what 456 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 2: I say, is the danger. I don't want to believe 457 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: that everything is bad, and I know there are medications 458 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 2: that are life saving. I mean, my gosh, I've watched Outlander. 459 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 2: I know that back then people just died of infection. 460 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: You know, It's like, I know. 461 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 2: It is, it is, But at the same time, I'm like, 462 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 2: I don't want my kids on meds. They don't need 463 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 2: to be on. I don't want any of these kids 464 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: on meds they don't need to be on. I don't 465 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,239 Speaker 2: want any adults to be on meds they don't need 466 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,479 Speaker 2: to be on. And I have seen people that I 467 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: love take medications that have had horrendous side effects and 468 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: I see no positive change in their health, but they 469 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: cannot get off of these medications. 470 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: Well, how do you fight this machine? 471 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think one of the most shocking parts of 472 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 3: these last five years to me was the number of 473 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,239 Speaker 3: times that Johnson and Johnson actually went after babies. You know, 474 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: this is a company that calls itself the Baby Company, 475 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 3: one of the stories I tell, and it had real 476 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 3: resonance for me. My own son, my first born was 477 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 3: in the nicqu for four or five days after his 478 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 3: birth in two thousand and three. And shortly after that 479 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: series experience which you know, I'm sure you know about Tutor, 480 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 3: I got these inside documents from Johnson and Johnson showing 481 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 3: that it had been marketing this heartburn drug name Propulsive 482 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 3: for use in babies, and in fact they had created 483 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: this very liquid flavored version of the drug, and they 484 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: had undertaken twenty separate clinical trials to show that it 485 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 3: was effective in babies in preventing spit up. Every single 486 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: one of those trials had failed. Like you shouldn't be 487 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 3: able to do a third trial in babies if you're 488 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: first two failed. These are is a protected class that 489 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 3: the ethics of testing anything in infants and babies is fraught, 490 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: and you must believe that this. You must have very 491 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 3: good reason to believe that it's going to be effective. 492 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: For them to do it, they ended up doing twenty trials, 493 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 3: all of them failed. They nonetheless underwrote this quiet marketing 494 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: campaign for these to be used in the smallest of infants. 495 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 3: They were so successful that one in five nick you 496 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 3: infants were given Propulsive for these years. And not only 497 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 3: was it not effective in them, but it caused what's 498 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 3: called you know, it caused the basic arrhythmia QT prolongation. 499 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 3: So it killed baby after baby after baby after baby. 500 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 3: And they knew this. The babies were piling up. The 501 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 3: FDA was expressing more and more alarmed, Why is this 502 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: drug being given to babies. It's not approved for babies. 503 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 3: We know what doesn't work? What's going on? And FDA 504 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 3: didn't know that Johnson and Johnson was quietly underwriting a 505 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: marketing campaign for its use and what they called happy spitters, 506 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 3: which was healthy babies who had some it up problems, 507 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 3: just give them propulsive. And you know, I had just 508 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 3: had my son in a NICU unit. I mean, if 509 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 3: not for just luck and a little bit of a delay, 510 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 3: that might have been my child. And so and this 511 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 3: is true like in baby powder. Of course, you know, 512 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: this is contaminated with asbestos. It's being given, it's being 513 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: put on babies' bottoms, and of course moms themselves breathe 514 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 3: it in. And there's example after example after example of 515 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 3: this of them going after babies. 516 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 2: I mean, we had a gentleman on who he was 517 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 2: the one who did all of the research after the 518 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 2: Columbine killings and after the girl who had convinced her 519 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 2: boyfriend to commit suicide, and he he had been gathering 520 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 2: for school shootings. He had been gathering the medical datata 521 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 2: that he could. Some of it you can't get because 522 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: they're under eighteen. And he said, I had gone to 523 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,479 Speaker 2: the FDA early on and said, for these medications that 524 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: were used in ADHD and ADD and those for all 525 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 2: these young people, they are causing suicidal and homicidal tendencies. 526 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,719 Speaker 2: You have to have that in the ads. And then 527 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: you suddenly start seeing ads. It's like, if you're thinking 528 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: of harming yourself or someone else, this could be because 529 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 2: you're on this medication. Well, he contends that he believes 530 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 2: that this increase in depression. He said, this isn't solving depression. 531 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: These drugs aren't actually solving depression. So we're more depressed 532 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: than we ever have been. And I read your book 533 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 2: and I think, my gosh, what if we are causing 534 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: some of these terrible disasters to happen because they alter 535 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 2: how your brain thinks, how you communicate, and what your 536 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 2: body thinks is the necessary thing to do, because you're 537 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: changing the chemicals in these people's bodies. Then I read 538 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 2: your book and I'm like, what are who can we trust? 539 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 2: I mean, you you make a statement, you say a 540 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: few companies in America have had a wider gap between 541 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: their public reputation and their actual actual conduct that conduct 542 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: than Jay and Jay, and I see that, and I think, 543 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 2: and you talk about the money and the advertising and 544 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 2: the pr that they had behind them, there are so 545 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: many more? 546 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: How many more? 547 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 3: Right? Well, you know, I covered all of the companies. 548 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 3: I think that each one of these companies is very 549 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 3: different and has a very different character. I actually think 550 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 3: that there are a couple of companies that I'm fond 551 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 3: of and think that they are relatively well behaved. The 552 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 3: problem is is that there's this enormous gap, and there 553 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 3: are companies that are really really dark. Tutor. I mean, 554 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 3: as you know, there's a lot of people who've sort 555 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 3: of given up on the system, and there's many people 556 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 3: in public health. I was the public health reporter who 557 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: get very frustrated about this that you know right now 558 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 3: of measles outbreak in Texas, and you know they think 559 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 3: the obvious answer is obviously more vaccination, and I think 560 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 3: there's good data for backing up childhood vaccinations. The problem 561 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 3: is that they, my friends in public health, don't understand 562 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,919 Speaker 3: that it's very difficult to separate out the lies from 563 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 3: the truth in a system in which an agency like 564 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 3: FDA is so bought and paid for frankly, and is 565 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 3: so enabling bad behavior. So you get sort of public 566 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 3: health endorsement for some products, and it's I think, while 567 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 3: other products it's clear. Johnson and Johnson, in the case 568 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 3: of EPO and cancer, sat on the results of clinical 569 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 3: trial after clinical trial after clinical trial showing that actually 570 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 3: EPO is miracle grow to tumors. This was the most 571 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 3: popular drug in cancer for about fifteen years. If you 572 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 3: have a loved one who died of cancer during the 573 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 3: administrations of Bill Clinton or George W. Bush, there's about 574 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 3: a fifty percent chance that they got EPO, And that 575 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 3: means there's a very good chance that your loved one 576 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 3: either died because of Johnson and Johnson or lost precious 577 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 3: months of life because of them, and because they had 578 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 3: done these studies that they didn't even give the data 579 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 3: to the FDA too, And the FDA really did nothing 580 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: about it. So that's why there's this loss of faith. 581 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 3: You know, the places, for instance, I point out in 582 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 3: the book EPO is still used by oncologists in small 583 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 3: towns throughout the country. These are the places that have 584 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 3: lost faith the most. Right, that's not a coincidence. 585 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: Right, Well, and that was. 586 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 2: And then you have the the birth control that's not 587 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 2: actually preventing you from getting pregs, but it's just adding 588 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 2: I mean, and that was. And then you know, when 589 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: I had breast cancer, that was shocking. How every doctor's 590 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 2: office you walked into, how long were you on birth control? 591 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 2: How long were you on birth control? That was the 592 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 2: first question every time. What birth control did you take? 593 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: How long were you on it? 594 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 2: And I'm like, they know, they know what's happening to us, 595 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 2: And it is crazy how many women have this. 596 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 5: The problem, as you know, is estrogen, right, And as 597 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 5: you know, and I had estrogen receptive cancer right and 598 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 5: after I'm sure you took estrogen blocking drugs after your cancer, right, And. 599 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 3: So birth control pills used to have very high high 600 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 3: levels of estrogen. And they gradually started notching down as 601 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: as doctors realized you would still get the birth control 602 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 3: effect with much lower levels of estrogen. But what Johnson 603 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 3: and Johnson did with its patch is launch a patch 604 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,959 Speaker 3: that had basically twice as much estrogen as the low 605 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 3: dose birth control pills on the market, and they lied 606 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 3: to FDA about it, and so thousands upon thousands of 607 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 3: women had strokes, had heart attacks, all who didn't need 608 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 3: to have them, all because they didn't know that they 609 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 3: were getting this huge dose of estrogen. 610 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just shocking. So I want to go 611 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 2: through I know I've kept you a little bit long 612 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 2: because I just can't. I'm just like, this is mind 613 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 2: blowing and I could talk about it for hours, but 614 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 2: I do want to quickly touch on the COVID vaccine because. 615 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 1: I think that I was watching that again as. 616 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 2: A woman, I feel like this is overwhelmingly shocking for women. 617 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: But again as a woman, I'm watching this, they're like, oh, 618 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,720 Speaker 2: this is actually causing these terrible blood clots and women. 619 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 2: You know, maybe we'll back off of women taking it, 620 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 2: but this is again already after in Europe they're like, yeah, 621 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 2: we're not going to have the J and J vaccine. 622 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 2: We're not going to have the I think Astrod Seneca 623 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 2: was like the same situation. They pulled it, right, The 624 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 2: FDA allows them leeway to fix it. They're like, eh, 625 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 2: work on it a little bit longer, knowing it's no good. 626 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 3: Right. The COVID vaccine story, you know, this was a 627 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 3: moment that Jay and J hoped would would sort of 628 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 3: revive its reputation by the time COVID came about, many 629 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 3: of these scandals that we're talking about, and you know, 630 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 3: just then FDA finally tested baby powder itself and announced, surprise, surprise, 631 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 3: that they had found asbestos in baby powder. Right, And 632 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 3: it's a story I also tell about how they even 633 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 3: in that situation, they know that these this lot of 634 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 3: baby powder, they certainly know that has asbestos in it. 635 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 3: They don't announce this immediately. They let Johnson and Johnson 636 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 3: have four days to sort of figure out what they're 637 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 3: talking for are so Johnson and Johnson knew that they 638 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 3: were in trouble and saw the COVID nineteen situation as 639 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 3: a chance at redemption. This is everyone is going to 640 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 3: sort of ignore all the stuff that we had done 641 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 3: before if we can save the planet. But of course 642 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 3: the project that they launch is the use of a 643 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 3: cold virus as the kind of vehicle to transport the 644 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 3: COVID nineteen vaccine. And they know before going into it 645 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,919 Speaker 3: that there are all these problems using cold viruses as 646 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 3: a vaccine transport because it causes bizarrely both plotting and 647 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 3: bleeding at the same time. You know, usually you know, 648 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 3: things either cause clotting or they cause bleeding, but this, 649 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 3: oddly enough, sort of does both. They nonetheless move forward 650 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 3: with this program. They hire this outside manufacturing firm that 651 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 3: has this disastrous history, and all the while they're having 652 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 3: these meetings, the CEO is going to the White House. 653 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 3: President Biden is giving him the platform, you know, praising 654 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 3: him and his scientists as saving humanity, and. 655 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: He's introducing the President. 656 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 2: I mean, this is like, yeah, well, I mean, this 657 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 2: guy is coming in with like bells and whistles and 658 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 2: you know, a parade of elephants. 659 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: It's just shocking to me. 660 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 3: All the while he had made this is the CEO, 661 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 3: Alex Gorsky. He had made their COVID nineteen vaccine program 662 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 3: the center of the largest pr campaign that Johnson and 663 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 3: Johnson had launched in forever they had, you know, they 664 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 3: had this podcast, they had videos, they had Sean Penn 665 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 3: working for them, They they had all kinds of pr 666 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 3: going on about this, and they must have known when 667 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 3: he was, when Alex was in the White House with 668 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 3: President Biden, that the whole thing was going to collapse 669 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 3: because FDA inspectors had already found that the facility where 670 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 3: they were manufacturing this had become deeply, deeply contaminated, and 671 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 3: that all nearly most of the doses that they had 672 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,879 Speaker 3: promised to deliver in the following months were almost immediately 673 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:31,399 Speaker 3: deep sext because they were contaminated. And yet they continued 674 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,280 Speaker 3: to get the PR benefit up until the last second. 675 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: And then it doesn't even they don't even cut it off. 676 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 2: Really, they end the program quietly in twenty twenty three, right. 677 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: I mean that to me was the most shocking part. 678 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 2: But you're hearing like little rumblings of there was some 679 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 2: mold found at the facility. It might not be the 680 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 2: cleanest facility. Maybe some doses were mixed together with a 681 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 2: different brand and these are contaminated and you can't actually 682 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 2: ship these out. And then it's like, oh, we're finding 683 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 2: out that women, some women have died. Because the women 684 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 2: have died, we're going to put a pause on it. 685 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 2: But the pause doesn't even last very long. And they're like, oh, 686 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 2: this is just it's so hard to pause it because 687 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 2: we've got to get it into all the college students. 688 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: It's one it's one shot. 689 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 2: It's so much easier. We've got to do it. And 690 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 2: there and there's this inherent trust in Johnson and Johnson, 691 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 2: and the American public has this trust for Johnson and Johnson, 692 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,760 Speaker 2: and that to me was the. 693 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: Pinnacle of all of this. 694 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,919 Speaker 2: And I'm reading this book and honestly, I will tell 695 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 2: people read this. I think you're right, get it right away. 696 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 2: It comes out what next week, right the. 697 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 3: Eighth it does. Yeah. Cool. 698 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 2: So it's called No More Tears, The Dark Secrets of 699 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 2: Johnson and Johnson, and we'll we'll put it up there 700 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,879 Speaker 2: so people can see it. But I think you have 701 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 2: to read this because it will change the way you 702 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,439 Speaker 2: view everything. I mean, even from we didn't get into 703 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 2: the breast plant and plants and the implant illness. 704 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 5: The breast and plant illness. 705 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: There's so much. 706 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 2: And that shocked me because when I had after when 707 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 2: I had reconstructive surgery, they were like, well, we've got 708 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,240 Speaker 2: this new breast implant and it's this tear drop shape 709 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 2: and it's like it's kind of rough and it stays 710 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 2: in place and you're going to really love it. And 711 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 2: this is what they put inside of me. And a 712 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,399 Speaker 2: year later, I start reading that this causes lymphoma, right, 713 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 2: and nobody calls me. Nobody calls me and says, you've 714 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 2: got this cancer. You just got over cancer. You've got 715 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 2: a little device inside your body that's going to cause 716 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 2: cancer again. Nobody calls me. I call Johns Hopkins and 717 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 2: I say, hey, what do you know about this? And 718 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 2: they said, yeah, anybody who's calling us to ask us 719 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 2: about it, we're telling them to get them removed immediately. 720 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: And I did. 721 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 2: I went and immediately had them removed. But nobody called 722 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 2: me to tell me you have something inside of you 723 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 2: that will cause you to get cancer again. 724 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: It's shocking to me. 725 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 3: It's a scandal that the medical device industry and regulators 726 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 3: FDA has never required that there be medical device registries 727 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 3: so that you know, we know what kind of medical 728 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 3: devices people get, what then what health consequences they have. Subsequently, 729 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 3: it's been sort of talked about other countries have these 730 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 3: kind of registries. But basically, quietly, the industry has been 731 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 3: opposing it forever. And you know, one of the real 732 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 3: as you know, Tutor, there's women have complained about the 733 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 3: health consequences of breast implants for thirty and four years, 734 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 3: and for all of that time, the industry denied that 735 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 3: there was anything. The FDA asked the industry throughout this 736 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 3: period of time, well, okay, we'll do a study, you know, 737 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 3: follow these women for ten years. And the industry always promised, yep, 738 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 3: we're going to do that, but sure, and then never 739 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 3: did and well it was too hard, we couldn't. Okay, 740 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 3: we're starting another study. The results of that were never 741 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,280 Speaker 3: shown like it just you know, we could have found 742 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 3: this information out twenty years ago, and the industry just 743 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 3: basically filibustered throughout that period of time because they didn't 744 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 3: want to know. 745 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: Why would you want to track your mistakes exactly? 746 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 3: And you know, one of the things I talk about 747 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,399 Speaker 3: in the book is that the FDA is terrible at 748 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 3: tracking how drugs and devices operate once they're approved. And 749 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 3: I suggest in the book that we follow what we 750 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 3: do in aircraft. Right, We've got the FAA that approves aircrafts, 751 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 3: and then when there's a crash, we get the NTSB 752 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 3: in there that's independent, that doesn't have this conflict because 753 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 3: they approve the airplane to start with. And I think 754 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 3: that's the problem with FDA. FDA is, first of all, 755 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 3: not only all of their jobs depend upon the industry 756 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,720 Speaker 3: and the payments the industry make for them, but also 757 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 3: the medical officers are committed to these products that they approved, 758 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 3: and they don't really want to hear that they're not 759 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 3: working out as well as they thought or hoped. And 760 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 3: so I think there needs to be actually a separate 761 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 3: agency that tracks the safety of medical devices and drugs 762 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 3: once they have been approved, that doesn't have this fundamental 763 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 3: intellectual conflict of how they are invested in this project 764 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 3: product because they approved it. 765 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 2: I agree. I mean, do these drugs make people violent? 766 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 2: Do these implants make people sick? Do these hips cause problems? 767 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 2: I mean all of these things. 768 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 1: Do these drugs actually accelerate cancer? All of these things? 769 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: And the crazy part about it, I'll just end on this. 770 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,839 Speaker 2: The crazy part about it is that you have to 771 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 2: have a second agency to look at what is happening 772 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 2: because the companies are hiding it. 773 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: They actually know. 774 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 3: All right. In case after case after case that is true, Tutor. 775 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 1: Is shocking, So get the book again. 776 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 2: It's No More Tears, The Dark Secrets of Johnson and 777 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 2: Johnson Gardner. Harris, thank you so much for coming on 778 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 2: and talking to us about this today. It's been eye 779 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 2: opening and I really hope that with Secretary Kennedy things will. 780 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 3: Change, all right. Take care, Tutor, thanks for having. 781 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,400 Speaker 2: Me absolutely, and thank you all for joining us on 782 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Check out the podcast at the 783 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,920 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 784 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: You get your podcasts and join us next time. Have 785 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:43,400 Speaker 1: a blessing.