WEBVTT - The Adobe Story, Part Two 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.400 Get in touch with technology with tech Style from how 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:13.400 stuff flix dot com. Hello there, everyone, and welcome to 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.280 tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and I am 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.760 an editor at how stuff works dot com. Sitting across 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.479 from me as usual as senior writer Jonathan's trick. Hey there, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.119 and today we're continuing the conversation we began in our 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:28.920 previous episode about Adobe, which if you're just tuning in, 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.920 in our last episode, we ended in Adobe's well. So 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.760 it was when Adobe merged with a company called Aldus 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.440 and became Adobe Systems Incorporated. Now, now, when you mix 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.400 the mud with the water, you wanted to kind of Adobe, 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.320 that kind of Adobe. I'm gonna need some new notes. Okay, Well, 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.440 Chris is gonna go bye bye for a little while. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.360 Uh No. So yeah, Adobe, of course, at this point 0:00:55.400 --> 0:01:00.840 in its existence, was really really focused on top publishing 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:06.280 and desktop video editing software and getting into some other 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.880 arenas as well. They're starting to look into three D rendering. 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:14.040 They were looking into developing things for web pages, which 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.520 you know, in the early nineties, the web is in 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:21.720 its infancy, it's it's hasn't really taken off yet. Uh 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:26.039 and and also into other venues as well. So Adobe 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:31.720 starting to branch out beyond the traditional font management software 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.160 that it had kind of cut its teeth on. Well, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.880 we're looking at a time when there was still a 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.520 lot of fragmentation out there. Sure, you know, we we 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.520 talk on on tech stuff a lot about older technologies, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.160 just because I think it kind of puts what we 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.480 have now into a lot of context. UM. We've talked 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.240 in the past about the main frames that they used 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.240 to use before the Internet really hooked everything up, and 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.640 all these different machines used different operating systems, they use 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:06.600 different programming languages. UM and UH. One of the one 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.880 of the things one of the reasons if you especially 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.560 if you haven't listened to UH to the first episode 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.760 of the Adobe UH two parter um, one of the 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.760 reasons that the founders of Adobe decided to branch out 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.680 from their work at Xerox Park was they wanted to 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:29.560 create technologies that would enable people to standardize UM specifically 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.840 in this case for publishing the purposes of print publishing. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.920 But UM, they you you will find that as we're talking, 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.360 especially in this second part of the podcast, that the 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:47.120 the technologies and formats that Adobe has created have really 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.120 done that. UM. And this is a time in the 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.920 in the mid es when we're moving from UH. You know, 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:59.040 the Macintosh operating system is moving forward, UM the UH 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.080 you know, some of the other different competitors have fallen out, 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.240 a tar st has gone by this point for the 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.839 most part, UM Amigas has long since UH foundered and 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:14.320 been saved and founder again, etcetera. UM. So it's really 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.480 sort of a a two part race for the most part. 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.560 The people who are using uh PCs based on IBM 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.400 S technologies and UM and people who are using the 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.880 Mac and and as Jonathan alluded to in the previous episode, 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.800 the Mac people right now are still sort of designers. 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.240 You know. That's if you're going to be doing desktop publishing, 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.720 you need to Mac. But Adobe was smart and hedging 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.240 its bets. They started producing software for the Windows operating System. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.760 More people have used I mean OS two. The IBM 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.640 UM operating system is kind of fallen off by this 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:52.360 period too, so UM that that was the right horse 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.960 to back was the Windows Operating System. And with Windows 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.600 three point x and then Windows ninety five around the 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.720 time we're starting to talk about it's really becoming a 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.640 situation where that the technologies are are getting more similar 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.000 than dissimilar. And of course, uh, you know, already we 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:14.560 had the whole model of the enterprise leaning toward Windows 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.559 based machines as opposed to Mac machines. So with entire 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:23.919 companies uh investing in Windows PCs, it meant that, you know, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.200 you wanted to make sure you you catered to that 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.479 particular market as well. There were going to be a 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.560 lot of Windows PC machines out there, and a lot 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.600 of businesses do some form of publishing, whether it's for 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.760 internal documents or it's an actual company that produces stuff 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.920 that will go to external clients or customers. So yeah, 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:45.919 it was very important for Adobe to look into that, 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.279 and in they went on something of a bit of 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.799 an acquisition spree. They acquired a company called Visual where 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.160 uh they acquired a Seneca Communications which made website creation 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.080 tools like I said, you know, early days of the web, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.800 and Adobe saying we need to get into this. They 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.080 acquired hyphen which was a printer software company. Uh. And 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.440 they they acquired frame Technology, which created a software called 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:16.560 FrameMaker UM which was all about producing and manipulating large 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.840 structured documents. Now, if you aren't a technical writer. This 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.359 might not sound terribly interesting, but if you are a 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:28.760 technical writer and you have to create long, complicated technical documents, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.080 something like FrameMaker which would allow you to produce those 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:38.640 and and uh switch things around, uh relatively painlessly, that's 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.080 a big deal. You know, you're talking about very complex documents. 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.920 I know people who have used FrameMaker. Yeah, they would. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:53.039 They would probably take exception to your your painless painlessly. Yeah, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.680 I realized that painless is again your mileage may very 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.320 tight term, just like open was in our last episode. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:05.039 But the goal of FrameMaker at any rate was to 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:11.120 make this easier for large complex documents, to manipulate those. Uh. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.880 Whether or not it succeeded was probably more of a 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.920 case by case basis. Well, when you put it, when 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:20.760 you put it in terms of what people had to 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:25.320 do to create those same kinds of documents before computers 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:30.320 were on everyone's desktop, Uh, it's considerably painlessly. Yeah, much 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.760 much easier. At that same time, they began to license 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:39.960 a programming language created by Sun Microsystems called Java, and 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.160 they were licensing it with the intent on integrating it 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:48.240 with their Adobe Acrobat product. So, uh, Java is not 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.320 an Adobe product. It came from Sun Microsystems, but Adobe 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.960 did license it for some of its own products. They 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.880 also ended a licensing agreement that year they ended the 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.560 agreement with Photoshop. They decided to cut that license because 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.960 they decided to buy Photoshop outright for thirty five and 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.360 a half million dollars. So that pet project of Thomas Knowles, 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.200 who created his display software program a few years before, 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.720 turned out to be quite a windfall for him. The 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.720 thirty half thirty five and a half million dollar deal 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:28.360 with Adobe after after a fairly lucrative licensing agreement. So uh, 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.320 it was. It was. It was one of those right 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.520 place to be during the right time kind of situations, 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:39.520 you know. And then also that year, Acrobat becomes integrated 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:46.840 with a browser called Netscape. New listeners, young listeners might 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.880 not be familiar with the name Netscape, but Netscape at 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:55.680 one time was a dominant web browser. Um you had 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.440 essentially you had two web browsers battling it out for supremacy. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.320 There was Netscape and there was Internet Explorer, and then 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.880 Internet Explorer kind of one for a while, and then 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:11.400 other browsers rose up to a challenge Internet Explorer. But 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.600 Netscape was a big name back in the day, there 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.680 were there were there were other browsers, quite a few 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.320 of the UM, most of which you really will never 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.120 hear of. Right, the market share for those was tiny 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.400 in comparison, and and that's really thanks in large part 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.440 to Microsoft because um Netscape was a paid product back then. 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.520 If you wanted the Netscape web browser, you forked over 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.800 money because I know this because I did that. And 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:43.319 then Microsoft released Internet Explorer for free. Yeah. Also, this 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.320 was the same era when Internet Explorer and Windows were 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.760 so tightly integrated that it caused problems for Microsoft in 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.080 the court systems where they were talking about Microsoft kind 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:59.640 of unfairly biasing everything toward Internet Explorer so that you 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.080 would effectively not have a choice trying to become a 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:07.000 monopoly in the browser world. That's a totally different story though, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:08.800 so we don't really need to go into that, but 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.720 it's just interesting background with what's going on during the 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:16.119 time that Adobe is making all these acquisitions and licensing agreements. Uh, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.120 they release more updates to their product line. I'm not 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.439 going to go into all of them because frankly, it 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.440 would take several episodes and I'm not sure that it 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.440 would be that interesting. I will say that they did 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:33.439 release the first edition of page Mill, which was, according 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.000 to the box, the easiest way to create pages for 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.880 the World Wide Web, because that's what we used to 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.360 call it, and I and to that, I would just say, well, 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.720 maybe back then it was the easiest. I mean, do 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.800 you you remember having to create a web page by 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:57.240 coding it in in HTML and then saving the htmail document, 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.760 then opening up a browser, opening the h Gmail document, 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.600 looking at it, say that's not the way I wanted 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.240 to be. Close out the browser, reopened the HTML editor, 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.760 go back into it and change another line of HTML. 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.280 I say, code, but it's really a mark up language. 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.640 Um yeah, they that was a pain. Yeah, well, well 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.600 this this if you wanted to get into the Web, 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:22.760 and lots and lots of people did. At this point. 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:27.000 It was it was being likened to the Great land 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.600 Rush type thing where the West, yeah, the wild West, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.800 or or space. You know, it's it's wide open and 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.520 anybody can do this, and people wanted to learn how 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.640 to do this, and you kind of had two choices, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.320 which you we still really do, but uh, it was 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.840 less familiar to people at that time. So you either 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.400 learned how you bought a book on how to code HTML, 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.040 or you got software to help you with this, like 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:58.160 for example, Page mill or um uh front page, I 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.800 remember front Page. And you know, there were there were 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.520 there were situations where you you'd go, Okay, well I'm 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.880 just gonna go ahead and uh, you know, bite the 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.080 bullet and go ahead and buy a program to help 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.240 me do this. And it worked some of the time. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:15.280 And at other times you look in the code and 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.640 if you knew anything about the code, you go, what's that? 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.000 You know, why is why is it injecting all this 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.960 stuff that really doesn't it's not necessary for me to 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.040 align my text to the left. It was, you know, 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:32.320 it was the attempt of the early software the software 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.720 engineers to um, you know, make an attempt to make 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.560 coding easier for HTML users, and eventually this would develop 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.880 into whizzywig editors, which of course is the what you 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.400 see is what you get where you know, the all 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.600 the coding part is hidden away from you, so you 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.160 don't have to pay attention to it. You just see 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.240 the representation of it on your screen and you move 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.520 things around to where you want them. And saw a 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.160 lot of web development tools are these days now grant 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.080 most of them also allow you to go into the 0:11:58.200 --> 0:11:59.679 H T M L if you want to do it 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.720 the old fashioned way or you want to tweak things 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.320 very specifically, and you don't you know, you want to 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.600 do it via code as opposed to clicking and dragging 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.040 something on a screen. But yeah, this is this kind 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.600 of predates the whole wizzy Wig stuff. Yeah, well and 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:18.199 until Macromedia comes out with, um with dream Weaver, which 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.040 is I believe you can we can make it through 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.240 the night. Well, dream Weaver is a is a sort 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.800 of best of both worlds sort of situation where you 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.080 can do wizzy Wig editing, but you can also really 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.680 get into the code. Actually, there was a company called 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.720 go Live that also came out with a similar program. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.760 So go Live and uh and Macromedia we're coming out 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.880 with these advanced HTML editors and will play a part 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.400 in the story. And and dream Weaver and um, I'm sorry, 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.920 and uh, page Mill, well, page Mill is now sitting 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.880 in deep in the ground where it was stomped. Yeah, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.000 but that's okay because Adobe, even though perhaps its own 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.360 product did not win out in that war h Adobe 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.240 still stood tall. And we'll get into why. But there 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.679 their revenue that year because I was doing revenue in 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.080 the previous ones, I'm not gonna do this every single year. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.839 It was seven hundred sixty two millions. So they're creeping 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.960 up on a billion dollars in revenue. They had over 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.920 two thousand employees at this point, two thousand two. Uh. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.560 And then the next year in ninety, Adobe acquired a 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:31.439 company called Swell Software. Yeah, so they developed web server software. 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.160 And they also acquired a company called Aries Software, which 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.160 was another font scaling company. If you listen to part one, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.199 you probably heard us talk about Adobe buying every font 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.840 scaling company that seemed to come come into existence, because 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.400 again that was very uh much part of their their 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:53.280 focus with desktop publishing and electronic publishing in general. Then 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:54.959 you have two D scale the fonts if you want 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.720 to eat them. So then after that, after that, Adobe 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.920 all so decided to spin off one of its divisions. 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.920 They had this whole prep press application software company spinoff 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:14.400 that they called Luminous Corporation, and Adobe Systems Incorporated relocates. 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.199 Yet again, Now, if you listen again to the previous episode, 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.800 you heard about them getting a start in Mountain View 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.720 and then moving to Palo Alto, and then moving back 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.480 to Mountain View, and now they're making their move to 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:29.280 where they where Adobe headquarters are today, which is well, 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:34.640 you know the way, it's San Jose, do do do? Anyway, 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:39.880 So they go to San Jose, California, and uh, moving 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:44.520 on to nineties seven more acquisitions, which it's kind of 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.040 amazing if you look at Adobe's history and you look 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.800 at all the companies that's acquired. I never realized how 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.720 many companies Adobe butt. I think of companies like Google, 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.400 which I think of as being pretty you know, at 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.640 least during certain eras of Google's history, they they've swept 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.040 up quite a few companies. Uh. And then there are 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:05.880 other companies that are in Microsoft has done the same 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.320 sort of thing. It's brought up several smaller companies. But 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.920 I never really thought of Adobe being one of those. 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.600 I knew about them making some major acquisitions and matures, 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.240 but I didn't realize how many how many companies Adobe acquired, 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.360 I mean it was a lot. So yeah, nine seven 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:27.160 Sandcastle which was a two way internet communication company, Digi Docs, 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:32.600 which was a personalized PDF creation software company. Uh, fine 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.360 Point which was web graphics software company. I mean they 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.600 every year, it seems like they're they're acquiring at least 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:43.960 two or three companies kind of kind of uh interesting 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:48.160 and scary. Well, um, this is around the time when 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:54.160 Macromedia was really uh putting the hurt on Adobe because 0:15:54.600 --> 0:16:00.280 um in h is when they introduced Flash. So you know, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.400 Adobe really had no uh, no concrete answer for how 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:09.360 um for software like flash, which is still today one 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.640 of the most popular ways of providing rich Internet content, 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.520 especially now that that broadband technology is uh is so common. 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.400 And I would even argue that Flash in some ways 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:27.160 probably had an effect on broadband becoming more popular because 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.800 with more interactive and interesting content with the ability to 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.840 to create that using Macromedia Flash, UM, that made having 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.280 faster Internet speeds more compelling because there was something to 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.000 get um and it was it was that next year 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.400 in where where Macromedia came out with dream Weaver to 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.560 to create web pages. So um, you know Adobe is 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.200 is even though it's a you know, the number two 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:57.040 software firm in the world, behind only Microsoft, in um, 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.240 it's there's still places that can improve. And they also 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.840 that year launched the NOIDA Research and Development Center, So 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:09.920 this was a division specifically to you know, they would 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.400 they would dedicate resources to the center to try and 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:18.840 find new and innovative ways to improve either existing products 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.480 or come up with brand new products. So in a way, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.800 this is kind of Adobe's version of Park, which of 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.720 course is what the two founders of Adobe. What the 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:34.320 world that they came out of. Uh So, now and 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.160 they have a new employee, uh a fellow who originally 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.959 came from India, And so I'm going to completely butcher 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.479 the pronunciation of his name, and I apologize for that 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:49.960 because I it's my cultural illiteracy, and that's the only reason. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:56.080 But Shantanu Narayan, who joins Adobe as the VP and 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.280 General Manager of Engineering Technology Group. I he was a 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.520 former executive at Apple and then after that he was 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.480 the founder of a digital photo sharing company, Pictra Incorporated. 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.920 It was actually one of the first companies to look 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:17.000 into digital photo sharing. Anyway, this man will become very 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.679 important to Adobe in the future. He was He also 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:22.600 has a meteorc rise. He may have heard of us 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.080 talking about chisen Um having a meteorc rise as well. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:31.560 Throughout these years, he is steadily climbing the executive ladder 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:36.600 over at Adobe. Well that year Adobe Ship's image ready 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.639 one an image Styler one, along with updates to pretty 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.760 much everything else in its software suite. Um. And we 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.240 move on to ninety nine and we talked about go 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.560 Live again. That was the company you were talking about earlier, Chris. Yeah, 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.960 it was basically the competition to dream Leaver, right. So 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.480 Adobe is like, hey, I know how we can compete. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.560 Let's buy go Live. So they did. So go Live 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:06.600 created this macweb authoring tool, and uh, Adobe sweeps them up. Um. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.359 They also acquired Attitude Software, which was a three D 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.280 technologies company. UH, photo Merge, which was a photo stitching 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.280 software company. Photo stitching, for those who do not know, 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.840 that is the software that allows you to take multiple 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.880 photographs and then merge them together to make one image. 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:25.840 There are a lot of companies that do this, but 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.800 photo Merged was one of them. In Adobe jumped on 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.760 that opportunity. UH. That year, they shipped a product called 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:37.320 document Server one. This was a pretty important piece of software. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.240 It's not something that you would have purchased as just 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.080 an average computer owner. But what document server one allowed 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.720 UH people to do is if you if you installed 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.760 this on a server, it would allow folks to view 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.320 PDF files through a browser without first having to download 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.320 Adobe Acrobat Reader or some other clients software. That's the 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.960 way it had to be done. Previously, you would you know, 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:07.560 the browser itself was not capable of displaying PDF without 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.800 a plug in, essentially, so you had to get Adobe 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.919 Acrobat Reader before this. Now, what this software did was 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.280 on the server side, so it's not client side. You 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.280 didn't have to have it on your personal machine. On 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.480 the server side and installed the software that would convert 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:28.120 PDF documents into JEFF or jpeg formats and then so on. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.280 You know, those are file formats that any browser could display. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.280 So your browser would be able to show the JEFF 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.439 or jpeg version of a PDF document, so you're not 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.920 looking at the true PDF version, you're looking at an 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.639 image of it. Um But that meant that you didn't 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:49.680 have to install something additional into your browser of choice. 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.679 They also shipped a product called active Share, which was 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:58.800 software that had sort of a simplified photo editing suite 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.680 of tools, and it was men for the average user, 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.199 because a lot of the Adobe products previous to this 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.800 point were meant for people who were specialists. You know, 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:14.280 we're talking about photography specialists or are people who you know, 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:18.320 it's they're living to retouch photos, that kind of thing. Well, 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.080 they needed tools that had a lot of sophistication, and 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.960 sometimes with sophistication comes complexity, which is a barrier for 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.600 an average user, someone who doesn't do this for a living, 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.280 someone who's who's interested in it, but they don't have 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.520 the expertise to you know, if you if you hand 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.320 them a tool chest that has a thousand tools in it, 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:42.360 it's just overwhelming. So this was Adobe's attempt to kind 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.359 of address a different market. We're talking about the average 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.840 consumer and say, look, this software will let you share 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.240 your photos and you can even do some simple touch ups. 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.320 Most of it automated, so that way it wasn't too 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:01.440 intimidating for the average user. UM and they shipped a 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.040 product called press Ready, which was a publishing tool for 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.080 in jet printers. And nine was the first year that 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:13.840 Adobe hit the one billion dollar revenue mark. M so 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:19.320 big year for Adobe. Yeah, and I remember in in 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:25.359 Design came out. UM that was you know then the 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.080 basically sort of the the update, if you will, although 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:33.000 it wasn't an update to PageMaker, which it bought from 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.080 all this or when it acquired all of this. UM 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.399 and uh, you know there it was still uh, it 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.439 was still a little different from from PageMaker at that 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.760 At that point, Adobe's PageMaker was going up against Cork 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:49.840 with its Cork Express software and those two were the 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.400 big publishing uh platforms of choice. And then in design 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:56.560 was you know, Adobe says, you know, this is brand new, 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:58.800 written from the ground up. It's going to take over 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.359 the world. It's it's much better than than our old stuff. 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.080 It's much better than their stuff. And you know, right 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.800 out of the gate, maybe not, but that would go 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.840 on to uh to do very very well, and they 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:15.160 eventually would phase out the PageMaker right yep. In two 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:19.360 thousand they are ranked as number forty two Unfortune's Best 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.800 Companies list, which was a point of pride for them. 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.840 They acquired a company called glass Book, which was they 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.920 created software for reading, creating and deploying e books. So 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:34.119 another big move we're talking about now. Again, e publishing 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:36.199 was always something Adobe was interested in, but now we're 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.840 talking about e books in particular. This is definitely the 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:42.919 early days of the books two thousand. Uh, it was 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:47.840 CD screens really a niche market, not not doing a 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:50.960 lot of business in this but Adobe kind of could 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:54.280 see the writing on the tablet and uh, sorry to 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.640 get into it. This was also another another monumental year 0:23:57.680 --> 0:23:59.440 for Adobe in the sense that there was a big 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.680 change at the top. Warnock and Gesh became co chairman 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.800 of the Board of Directors and Bruce Chisen became the 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:11.160 CEO of Adobe Systems Incorporated. Yeah, he retired from his 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:14.280 his typical post and went on to U you know, 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.080 to join the board and sort of step down from 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:21.720 the day to day stuff. So. Um. Adobe also shipped 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.639 a product called live Motion one, which was product that 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:29.480 was all about web graphics and animation software, and uh, 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:33.280 a publication management and collaboration tool called in Scope one, 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:37.640 and um, yeah, so they're again they're diversifying a bit. 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:40.800 So it's not just digital publishing for static documents, but 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:46.359 also yet more web page publication tools. Yeah. And a 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.840 focus on cross platform to which uh you know has 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.639 has been for and from where we are now the 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.760 focus for many years, you know, building formats and and 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:02.399 and uh making tools to create those those formats that 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:05.879 will work on Windows and Macintosh computers both. Yeah. So 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:10.960 that way, no matter who argues ATOBEE still wins. UM 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:15.040 two thousand one, another huge year, a artificially intelligent computer 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:18.840 by the name of how started to off space explorers 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:23.080 one by one because of the problem. Okay, now my 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:26.119 notes are wrong. No, In two thousand one, they made 0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:31.960 a big deal with a a major retail establishment, Barnes 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.040 and Noble. So the deal was that they would start 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:40.719 to sell electronic books in PDF format through Barnes and Noble. 0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:44.399 So again a little early for that, but it was, 0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:47.639 you know, that sort of seeing what the future was 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:50.680 going to be in the publication industry, so that was 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:53.560 kind of an interesting They also, of course, you know, 0:25:53.960 --> 0:25:56.600 we can't go a year without them acquiring somebody, so 0:25:56.640 --> 0:25:59.240 they acquired the company called Fativa, which was a digital 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:02.840 photography saw were company, and they also began to license 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:08.399 software from Sonic Solutions Technology. Sonic Solutions Technology was a 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:13.480 company that created DVD authoring software. So now we're getting 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:17.520 into not just publication for the web or for the desktop, 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:22.040 or even hard copy paper documentation with you know, the 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:28.320 PostScript printer stuff. We're talking about creating DVDs. So they 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:33.760 also they also shipped special versions of Acrobat Reader for 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:37.720 a couple of different formats, and this is I'm mentioning 0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:40.399 this just to see Chris's reaction. Uh, this was the 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:42.720 year two tho one when they shipped Acrobat Reader for 0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:46.040 palm Os. I have a little moment of silence for 0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:51.920 palm Os. Alright, that's enough, Um, you know you. Yeah, 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:53.840 we've done an episode on Palm and we've done an 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:55.800 episode on HP. So if you really want to know 0:26:55.880 --> 0:27:00.160 the whole grizzly story about Palm, well it was. It's 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:02.920 sort of again, it's sort of a foreshadowing of how 0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:05.880 important the mobile market would end up being. Yeah, this 0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:08.840 is again a very early entry into the mobile market. 0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.760 We're talking about back in the days of the personal 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:15.040 digital assistant days, So we have personal digital assistance for 0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:20.440 those of you who don't remember, are smartphones without the phone, 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:23.399 who would do that? But in general, that's kind of 0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:25.440 what it was. So yeah, this was an idea of well, 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:28.879 let's let's let's create a version of Acrobat Reader. They 0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:31.280 will work on a mobile device, so that way you 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.000 can load a document on a mobile device and take 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:35.840 it with you and you don't have to have a 0:27:35.840 --> 0:27:38.840 computer to set up so that you can read whatever 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:42.320 the document is. Uh. And in two thousand two they 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:46.000 celebrated their twentieth anniversary. Oh yes, and they also acquired 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:49.439 a company, um, a Chilio or a Celio, depending on 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:51.560 I'm not sure how you pronounce it, but they was 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:55.840 a company that made web enabled electronic forms, and specifically 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:58.880 these forms were designed to improve business processes. So that's 0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:02.680 his exciting as it sounds, yes, but it's very important. 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:06.000 It's very lucrative, right, um. Yeah, and and uh and 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:08.240 also in two thousand one, by the way, I have 0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:12.920 listed that John Warnock retired officially from day to day 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:16.439 operations of the company, so the founders are no longer 0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:22.080 doing the every day Actually they probably were, but but 0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:25.440 just for frenzies. Uh So, moving onto two thousand three. 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:28.239 At two thousand three, they hit their peak as far 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:31.480 as I can tell anyway, on the Fortune's Best One lists, 0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:35.080 they rose all the way to number five. So they 0:28:35.080 --> 0:28:37.960 had been appearing on the list year after year, but 0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:42.240 if I'm not mistaken, I believe two thousand three was 0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:44.240 when they got as high up on the list as 0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:48.400 they've ever been. They also, of course, guess what they did, 0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:53.440 acquired a company, yes, Centrillium, which was a digital audio 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.640 tool company, and they also acquired a company called Yellow 0:28:56.720 --> 0:29:01.160 Dragon Technology, which was again all be getting into a business. 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:04.880 Very early on, Yellow Dragon Technology created x m L 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:10.440 messaging and metadata management software, so x m L Extensible 0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:15.600 Markup Language was something developed to make web pages a 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:21.520 more rich medium because HTML had certain limitations that it 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:28.080 was not really able to go beyond without additional stuff 0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:30.760 supporting it, and XML in a way is one of 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:35.560 the many things that kind of bolstered HTML. Also made 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:38.240 it easier to do things like the metadata menada is 0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:43.080 very important. Mentadata kind of tells a computer program what 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:47.840 the content of a particular document, whether it's web page 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:51.760 or uh you know, a document like a like you know, 0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:55.000 just something that you're creating on a computer. It gives 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.600 the computer information about what that documents about or how 0:29:58.640 --> 0:30:02.840 to uh sw that document and this this becomes really 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:05.280 important in lots of different applications. The one that a 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:07.960 lot of people refer to because it's a very easy 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:12.440 illustration is search. So if you are searching for stuff 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:16.000 and the search program looks through meta data to try 0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:19.800 and find documents that relate to whatever your search terms are, 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:23.320 you need to have a really good meta data management 0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:26.040 system in order to make sure people are finding your 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:29.920 stuff when they're searching for it. Um. Because this this 0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:32.400 can make or break a business. Yeah. It was especially 0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:35.560 important in the earlier days of the web when the 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:40.040 search engine uh spiders, which is basically a piece of 0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:42.120 software that goes from page to page on the Internet. 0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:45.280 They were less sophisticated than they are now um at 0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.560 at reading the content on the page and determining context 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:50.440 from from the way the content is marked up in 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:54.080 HTML or or you know, some form of XML so 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:59.200 um or PHP um so h yeah, there are others 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:01.880 um but um. But yeah, I mean it's sort of 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:06.160 relied on people marking up a page under and in 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:09.520 the code that you wouldn't necessarily see with tags that 0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:12.600 they wanted to be associated with meta information and uh 0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:15.320 so this this was a very important uh you know, 0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:18.360 business to being involved in at that point. Granted, people 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:20.840 started to figure out ways to gain the system by 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:24.600 putting in irrelevant information and sta data so that they 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:28.120 would get lots of traffic. Uh it wouldn't necessarily be 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.160 productive traffic because people would go to the page and say, 0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:34.040 this is not what I was looking for at all. Uh, 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:36.960 It's just that someone happened to include stuff in meta data. 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:41.360 That's the reason why the Google algorithm is so sophisticated. 0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:45.360 It needed to do things like just completely disregard meta 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:47.920 data for the most part and concentrate on the content 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:50.440 of the web page itself in order to try and 0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:54.440 get you the best results for whatever search query you 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:57.280 put in, and other other search engines do similar things 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:03.880 using you know, a very uh complex approach to curating data. Uh. 0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:07.040 So we're still in two thousand three. They also decided 0:32:07.080 --> 0:32:09.720 to ship some products. You know, they weren't happy just 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:14.840 acquiring companies, so beyond updating their suite of software, Adobe 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:19.720 also shipped new stuff like Encore DVD, also a piece 0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:22.720 of software called Audition one, which was a digital audio 0:32:22.840 --> 0:32:26.880 editing environment that this was mainly meant for professionals, people 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:31.239 who are you that's their living is editing audio, So 0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:33.840 this wasn't something that the average user would go out 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:37.680 and buy necessarily. Um. They also had a product called 0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:41.920 Version Q, which was a file management system. Uh and 0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:45.720 again this doesn't sound particularly sexy or anything, but Version 0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:47.280 Q what it would allow you to do is track 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:52.480 different versions of files so that you could zero in 0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:54.960 on the specific version you needed to whenever you were 0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:58.200 doing publication. This is incredibly important in the publishing world, 0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:04.120 particularly before there were a lot of collaborative environments available, 0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:07.840 because you know, typically what would happen is someone would 0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:10.920 create a file on their machine and then they might 0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:15.040 copy that file onto a disk or later on a 0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:18.360 USB drive, or perhaps email it to someone else who 0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:20.719 would then open it perhaps make some changes. Well, now 0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:23.560 you've got two versions of that file out there in 0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:25.720 the wild. There's the original version that's on the person 0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:29.080 who created its machine, there's the edited version that's on 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:31.240 the other machine that the edited version might get sent 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:34.080 to someone else and makes further changes. So you very 0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:38.040 quickly get into the situation where someone coming from outside 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:41.160 may not know which version is the one they need 0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:45.760 to work with. Yeah, so version Q was kind of 0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:49.080 a way to help try and keep tabs on what's 0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:52.760 going on so that confusion would not ruin a project. 0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:57.200 And trust me, I've worked on projects that where where 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:00.560 we had major setbacks because someone was using an out 0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:04.320 of date file for part of the project. Um, not 0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:06.480 a how stuff works. I was gonna say, I'm sorry 0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:08.680 about that. No, No, it wasn't at how stuff works. 0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:14.080 It was in my previous life working in other venues 0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:16.560 that I will not name, but anyway, it is a 0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:20.640 very frustrating experience. So again, not not something that you know, 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:24.320 those of us who are gamers would necessarily think as exciting, 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:29.200 but it's very very important. And you know, Uh, Macromedia 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:32.680 around this time has bundled uh it's some of its 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:36.520 software together. You know, the freehand um drawing program that's 0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:40.279 sort of a competitor for Adobe Illustrator and Flash and fireworks, 0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:45.239 um Dreamweaver. That's uh, every time you say that, the 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:53.000 song goes through my head, I'm I'm just imagining Wayne's world. Okay. Anyhow, Um, 0:34:53.080 --> 0:34:57.200 and so yeah, around this time, back in two thousand three, 0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:00.920 Adobe fights back. It bundles together first version of its 0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:04.759 Creative Suite, Version one point Oh yeah. So this was 0:35:05.760 --> 0:35:10.880 you know, definitely a way of making a stand and 0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:14.879 putting together these products that Adobe was known for and 0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:17.640 pricing them in a way where someone who is really 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.359 really determined to go into desktop publishing could get all 0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:23.800 the tools they need in one suite as opposed to 0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:27.440 buying it piecemeal. Well yeah, because um, you might prefer 0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:32.600 one company's tool over another, You might prefer Illustrator over freehand. 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:35.680 But then you'd want dream weaver to Uh yeah, I 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:38.200 did that on purpose to do your web design and 0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:42.120 maybe flash and but you needed Photoshop. So and of 0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:45.560 course Macromedia and Adobe both knew this. Okay, well, we'll 0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:48.399 put together a bundle of software that's maybe a little 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:50.520 cheaper than if you bought them all together, you know, 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:54.440 one by one, and maybe we can lock people into 0:35:54.480 --> 0:35:58.319 our environment. Gee that that's not anything like the way 0:35:58.719 --> 0:36:01.319 software companies do that today, not at all. So two 0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:04.879 thousand four, let's get the acquisitions out of the way. 0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:08.160 Q Link Business Process Management suffer a company and okay, 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:12.040 y z or o kis so the three D technology company. 0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:16.879 H we're both acquired by Adobe. Uh. And in two 0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:20.680 thousand five A Shantanu Narai, and you know I mentioned 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:23.279 him earlier, he becomes the president and CEO O of 0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:26.759 Adobe Systems. And this is also two thou five was 0:36:26.760 --> 0:36:31.240 a big, big year because that whole macro media company 0:36:31.360 --> 0:36:33.839 that has been a thorn in adobe side for so long. 0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:41.080 They announced Adobe announces a plan to acquire Macromedia and 0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:45.000 uh and the acquisition is done in an all stock transaction, 0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:48.760 so instead of cash changing hands, we're talking about stocks, 0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:52.000 and it was valued at three point four billion with 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:56.160 a B dollars. Yes, to to put that in perspective, 0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.560 the revenue for that year was one point nine six 0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:02.440 billion in for Adobe. So you're talking about, you know, 0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:06.320 a deal that's uh, it's more than a well nearly 0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:09.600 twice the amount of what the revenue was for that year. Yeah. 0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.920 And as you might expect this, Uh, this caused a 0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:16.840 lot of consternation over whether or not this would be 0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:21.200 permitted because, um, you know, Adobe and Macromedia had been 0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:25.680 the two big creative packages that that fought against one another. Again, 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:28.200 like I said, they had bundled their software. You were 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:30.720 you were an Adobe person or you're a Macromedia person, 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:33.400 and uh, well you know that sort of made it 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:37.319 a monopoly in some people's eyes. Uh not so as 0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:41.560 far as regulators, they decided to go ahead and permit 0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:44.920 that to happen. Yeah. And uh and this is when 0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:51.880 Adobe takes stewardship of Flash. Uh, savior of the universe. 0:37:52.400 --> 0:37:56.880 Now we're now we're we we transferred to queen. Uh. 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:59.839 This is we haven't really touched on it here all 0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:02.000 the we did talk about a bit with XML. Flash 0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:06.800 was one of those things developed to give more functionality 0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:10.319 through the web browsing experience than HTML could provide on 0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:14.400 its own. Uh. When we did our episode about HTML five, 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:17.799 we talked about flash quite a bit. Uh. It was 0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:19.560 are you are you smiling because you're thinking of the 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:22.319 song every time? Okay? So so dreamweaver for me and 0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:26.200 flash for you? That makes sense? Okay, So anyway, yeah, 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:29.480 it's like that. So Flash was a way to have 0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:34.120 these rich media experiences within a web environment that would 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:37.200 not natively be supported by HTML and meant that you 0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:39.600 had to install this plug in on your browser so 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:42.320 that you could be able to access this content. Otherwise 0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:44.719 you would just get a little error message saying you 0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:46.799 could not see whatever it was that was on there. 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:50.480 And so um Untobe took ownership of that at this point. 0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:52.719 So that's kind of why if you've ever if you've 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:55.600 always heard of Flash associated with Adobe, that's why it 0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:59.200 was in two thousand five when they acquired Macromedia. Two 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:02.719 thousand six, they continued acquiring companies. They acquired file Line 0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:06.319 Digital Rights Management, which was actually a division from uh 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:10.080 novice Ware. Digital rights management is one of those terms 0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:14.080 that is almost like a four letter word in the 0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:17.960 minds of many people who follow technology. Digital rights management, 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:21.560 of course, is all about protecting intellectual property by putting 0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:25.520 limitations on what people can do with software in an 0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:30.920 attempt to prevent piracy. UH. A lot of the complaints 0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:34.799 around DRM from the consumer side stem from the fact 0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:41.280 that sometimes these restrictions are they go too far. For instance, 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:45.880 having a DRM that requires that you have a persistent 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:49.440 connection to the Internet to work on software that is 0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:54.920 not itself dependent upon Internet connectivity. That would seem prohibitive. 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:57.880 If I'm running a program and all it needs to 0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:00.400 do is run natively on my machine, I should have 0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:02.640 an expectation that that machine does not need to be 0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.239 hooked up to the Internet for me to successfully run 0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:08.400 this software. At least that's that's the general argument. I 0:40:08.640 --> 0:40:11.399 happen to agree with that argument, but I should say 0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:14.400 that's just one perspective, and I'm not. I don't mean 0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:18.480 to say that's the end all be all. Uh. They 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:23.799 also acquired Traded Technologies France TTF, which created software to 0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:28.640 allow interoperability between CAD systems and multi CAD mock up 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:33.239 CAD being computer aided design. Yeah so uh yeah, this 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:36.440 is getting a little more specialized. Uh. They also acquired 0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:41.440 Pixman Tech Technology, which was the digital imaging software company. Also, 0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:45.400 they acquired Interact, which was a web content management company. 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.480 They acquired Serious Magic, which was a video software and 0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:52.440 communications tool company, and they acquired act Imagine Technology, which 0:40:52.520 --> 0:40:56.520 was a video and interactive vector graphics company. So lots 0:40:56.560 --> 0:40:59.000 and lots of acquisitions. In two thousand and six, they 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:03.000 also it a huge revenue two point five seven five 0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:06.440 billion dollars. The previous year was one point nine six, 0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:12.279 so that's a pretty impressive growth um. And in two 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:17.600 thousand seven, Bruce Chisen resigns as CEO and Shantanu Narayan 0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:21.799 becomes the new CEO, so he steps up from presidency 0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:26.360 O t CEO UH. That same year, they shipped the 0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:31.080 Photoshop light Room software suite, which lets you manage digital 0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:34.839 images and post production work. And they also produced sound Booth, 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:38.160 which was an audio editing software suite for people who 0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:42.520 were not audio professionals, So it was a more accessible 0:41:43.160 --> 0:41:47.120 audio tool suite for people who wanted to produce audio 0:41:47.200 --> 0:41:50.280 work but didn't have that level of expertise to fiddle 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.360 with all the knobs on that board that's just outside 0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:55.640 this room. That intimidates me every time I see it, 0:41:55.680 --> 0:42:01.919 because y'all those things move on their own. Well, um yeah, 0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:04.800 they they Adobe had started really getting into the the 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:11.520 casual hobbyist market. I think they realized, Um, well they've 0:42:11.719 --> 0:42:14.680 their their software has been pirated quite a bit. UM 0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:18.640 and they Photoshop in particular, that's probably one of the 0:42:18.760 --> 0:42:21.360 most pirated pieces of software that I'm aware of, and 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:25.120 I think in in some way, uh, they have decided 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:29.719 to reach out to the plain old, everyday consumer as 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:32.760 a result of this, and as a really good business 0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:35.880 opportunity anyway, UM, I think it was sort of for 0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:38.360 for many reasons. But yeah, that that was one of 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:43.080 a larger series of of UM efforts in that regard, 0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:47.120 like the Element series. UM. Photoshop Elements, for example, is 0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:50.800 a lower cost version that has, um, you know, a 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:54.920 lesser set of tools that the full version of Photoshop has, 0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:57.839 but it's it's much less expensive too, and it's it's 0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:02.040 basically aimed at, Hey, I photos of stuff, and I 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:05.279 like my kids and my hobbies, and I you know, 0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:08.520 I like to to shoot photos of of my dog 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:14.040 and double rainbow UM and stuff like that, and I 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:16.160 just want to I just want to resize that photo. 0:43:16.239 --> 0:43:17.759 I want to I want to put it in the 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:20.319 school newsletter for my kids, or I want to put 0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:23.279 up online. And I don't need this crazy resolution to 0:43:23.440 --> 0:43:26.400 make this this one web page way larger than it 0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:28.200 needs to be. You know, I don't need to use 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:29.959 it and see m y K because it's never gonna 0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:32.239 see print or if I if it does it, it 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:35.920 doesn't have to be perfect. Well, you know, they'll be said, hey, 0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:37.680 you know what we can We can offer you tools 0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:41.239 for this, and they, um, they sort of split a 0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:45.120 second line off of their their main line of software 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:48.560 tools and and started offering those around around this time 0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:52.040 to too people who um, you know, may just not 0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:56.120 need the same to the same kinds of professional level tools, 0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:59.400 and and they were very successful. And this is also 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:03.160 the time where I alluded to it in the previous episode. 0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:05.520 You know, there was a battle between Apple and Adobe 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:08.600 with the whole fonts issue where Apple wanted to try 0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:11.640 and develop its own fonts, and it actually eventually did 0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:15.520 because it was licensing fonts from Adobe and felt that 0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:19.560 those licensing fees were becoming prohibitively expensive, so Apple began 0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:22.560 to design their own and well, there was another fight 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:25.640 that was gearing up around this time. And it's because 0:44:25.680 --> 0:44:27.960 in two thousand seven, that's also when we had the 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:33.040 introduction of a piece of technology that has revolutionized consumer 0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:36.920 electronics in the latter half of the first decade of 0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:40.520 two thousand that was that was a complicated sentence thank you, 0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:44.239 That would be the iPhone. So the iPhone comes out. 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:50.080 It is the first truly successful consumer smartphone in the 0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:52.960 United States. There were other smartphones that were popular in 0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:55.320 other parts of the world. There were some smartphones that 0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:59.320 had fans in the US, but they just it just was, 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:01.399 you know, they were in minority. Most people were using 0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:03.960 what we call feature phones now cell phones that had 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:07.120 some limited web connectivity. I guess they didn't link dumb phones. 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:09.280 I was really working on that. Yeah, Well, the iPhone 0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:12.960 ended up being the first true runaway success smartphone in 0:45:13.000 --> 0:45:18.160 the United States. And Steve jobs Uh famously said that 0:45:18.600 --> 0:45:22.920 he didn't believe that the iPhone or the iOS operating system, 0:45:23.040 --> 0:45:24.960 which at the time was not called iOS but that's 0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:27.640 what we call now, um that it would not support 0:45:27.719 --> 0:45:33.399 flash because they decided that it they wouldn't make it happen. Well, 0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:37.080 the essentially what the arguments against it at the time, 0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:40.759 and you could you know, you could maybe uh dispute 0:45:41.000 --> 0:45:45.160 the truth behind it. But the arguments were that flash 0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:49.240 would require so much processing power that it would drain 0:45:49.400 --> 0:45:53.080 the battery life of an iPhone and create an unsatisfactory 0:45:53.320 --> 0:45:56.480 experience for the consumer. So you go out, you buy 0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:57.960 an iPhone, You're like, this is awesome. I'm going to 0:45:58.000 --> 0:45:59.600 serve the web and oh, this is great. I'm looking 0:45:59.600 --> 0:46:01.799 all these pages and two hours later like, wait a minute, 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:05.200 I have to charge this thing again. Um and Steve 0:46:05.280 --> 0:46:07.759 Jobs said that's not a good experience. I don't want 0:46:07.840 --> 0:46:09.800 that to happen on our product. I'm not going to 0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:12.160 allow it to happen because I'm not gonna have Flash 0:46:12.400 --> 0:46:16.239 work on this this device. It created a lot of 0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:21.640 challenges for developers for all sorts of things, what web 0:46:21.760 --> 0:46:25.000 apps as well as iPhone apps, things like that. Um 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:27.719 and it was kind of a glove in the face 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:32.120 of Adobe saying, look, we're creating a juggernaut here. This 0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:34.360 is going to be the future of computing, whether you 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:36.600 like it or not. And we are not supporting this 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:40.400 product that you have taken ownership of. And um and 0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:43.279 it just got uglier from there. I mean, every people 0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:47.480 started taking sides designers. A lot of designers love Flash 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:49.799 because I mean they can really show what they can 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:53.600 do with the with the animation and and you know graphics. 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:56.480 It's it can make beautiful web applications and hey, you 0:46:56.520 --> 0:46:58.440 know we've touched on it in the past. To h 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:00.719 the web wasn't designed to do what we do with 0:47:00.920 --> 0:47:04.680 it these days. And Johns's argument was that it would 0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:07.959 be better to support the development of HTML five, which 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:12.320 the next generation of the hypertext markup language that would 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:17.800 uh natively support things like video and audio uh in 0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:21.160 ways that HTML the previous versions of HTML did not. 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:24.080 So that was his argument was like, instead of just 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:30.239 continuously adding on additional elements to our web browsing experience, 0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:35.000 let's redefined, redefined the markup language itself so that we 0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:38.399 don't need all these added elements that are just making 0:47:38.440 --> 0:47:41.640 this clunkier and it's requiring more processing power. Now, this 0:47:41.760 --> 0:47:44.040 is Steve Jobs argument, I should I should point out 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:47.440 not my own, because I'm an Android phone owner and 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:53.840 my Android phone runs a version of Flash. Um, but 0:47:54.000 --> 0:47:57.480 that was that was the gauntlet there, and uh as 0:47:57.560 --> 0:48:00.360 the years go on, it got pretty I mean it 0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:03.480 got pretty nasty, to the point where I'm going to 0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:06.320 jump ahead a little bit, but in two thousand and eleven, 0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:11.040 Adobe announced they would stop developing flash for mobile after 0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:14.680 version eleven point one and instead they would focus on 0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:19.160 HTML five. They essentially acquiesced and said, you know, we're 0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:23.640 getting enough pressure here, We're going to stop pushing flash 0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:27.120 for mobile devices. Um and that was you know, that 0:48:27.200 --> 0:48:30.759 was kind of big news. Well, you know, there were 0:48:30.880 --> 0:48:33.360 there was a group of people that was sort of 0:48:33.440 --> 0:48:36.200 in the middle, and I admit I sort of belonged 0:48:36.360 --> 0:48:39.919 to that group where I could see why Adobe would 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:43.160 defend Flash. I mean, you know, it's a flash cow, 0:48:43.440 --> 0:48:46.080 I mean cash cow sort of in a way. I mean, 0:48:46.120 --> 0:48:48.800 you know, it's a it's a good technology and in 0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:52.040 some respects and it there really wasn't There's not anything 0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:56.000 i mean, other than than Microsoft silver Light. There's nothing 0:48:56.200 --> 0:48:57.800 that I can think of right off the top of 0:48:57.880 --> 0:49:02.920 my head that's um as as mature as a competitor 0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:05.600 for flash and and like a software that you can 0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:08.319 go build something in and make a website that has 0:49:08.719 --> 0:49:12.439 interactive content like that. UM So you know, they would, 0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:14.560 of course they would defend it. But at the same time, 0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:18.560 I thought, this is Adobe, they should be able to 0:49:18.600 --> 0:49:22.960 come up with some killer HTML five editor and then 0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:27.440 that's really what they did. They introduced their edge UM software, 0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:31.200 which is is uh still you know, sort of brand 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:34.520 new ish. Uh still very newish, let's say that UM. 0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:37.520 And you know, they're these tools are designed to work 0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:42.399 with HTML five and and other related technologies using UH 0:49:42.760 --> 0:49:47.960 standards like CSS UM and UH web fonts. You're starting 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:50.680 to become more popular too now that you can have 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:54.080 fonts load in the cloud rather than having to have 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:58.439 them on the host's computer to show up UM, which 0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:01.080 is the way it was strictly or you know that's uh. 0:50:01.200 --> 0:50:03.440 These are innovations that they can take advantage of. And 0:50:03.960 --> 0:50:05.680 you know, I can't think of anybody who does that 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:08.719 that kind of thing quite as well as Adobe. And 0:50:09.320 --> 0:50:11.360 that's my personal opinion. Should probably kind of wrapped this 0:50:11.480 --> 0:50:14.200 up before I finished. I should say. They also acquired 0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:18.239 Business Catalyst, Omnature and Efficient Frontier. Yeah, well they have. 0:50:18.360 --> 0:50:21.600 They've been moving into marketing as well web marketing. UM. 0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:24.759 So it uh, you know, unlike some of the other 0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:29.560 companies that that we've talked about, UM, Adobe has has 0:50:29.680 --> 0:50:32.960 faced stiff competition from from a couple of its uh 0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:36.400 serious serious competitors. I mean, they're still face facing h 0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:40.080 Apple and and Avid and some of the others, but 0:50:40.320 --> 0:50:43.879 they've they've weathered that competition, and uh, you know, there 0:50:43.920 --> 0:50:47.960 hasn't been a lot of uh confusion and drama at 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:51.000 the top. And there haven't been too many huge like 0:50:51.200 --> 0:50:56.759 departures from Adobe's core business. Like you don't see examples 0:50:56.880 --> 0:51:01.440 of something really really unusual wool that has nothing to 0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:04.440 do with any form of publication or editing, which is 0:51:04.520 --> 0:51:06.719 really what Adobe is known for. You haven't really seen 0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:09.719 anything that goes so far outside of that as to 0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:13.200 make you say, huh. So yeah, I mean that's that's 0:51:13.239 --> 0:51:15.279 kind of the story of Adobe so far. And I 0:51:15.360 --> 0:51:19.080 mean the company is still going strong, and it'll be 0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:23.480 interesting to see how Adobe, uh you know, how how 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:27.960 it adjusts to the HTML five era, which of course, 0:51:28.040 --> 0:51:31.120 you know, still has not really launched. I mean, there's 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:33.919 there's some early development in HTML five, but it's still 0:51:34.080 --> 0:51:38.520 not a thing with a capital T yet. Yeah, And 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:40.120 I think I think that was one of the reasons 0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:43.200 why so many developers still cited on the side of 0:51:43.440 --> 0:51:47.880 Adobe with flash was because flash is mature in HTML 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:50.279 five has yet to mature. In fact, there's not a 0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:55.440 firm um standard yet. And I've got friends who are 0:51:55.600 --> 0:51:58.919 flash animators, you know. They that's the tool they used 0:51:58.960 --> 0:52:02.399 to create anime s and uh they have very strong 0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:06.480 opinions on this subject, understandably so because their livelihood depends 0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:11.560 upon this tool. And uh so their opinions are very 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:15.120 different from apples. So, I mean it's there. There are 0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:16.680 a lot of sides to this story. We don't mean 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:19.320 to try and oversimplify it and say that one company 0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:23.480 has the right perspective over another one. Uh. In many ways, 0:52:23.560 --> 0:52:26.960 you could argue that both perspectives are valid, just for 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:30.719 different reasons. So anyway, that's the that's the story of 0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:33.920 Adobe in two parts. And uh, we're gonna wrap it 0:52:34.040 --> 0:52:36.840 up here. If you guys have any suggestions for topics 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:38.960 that we should cover in future episodes of tech Stuff, 0:52:39.200 --> 0:52:42.200 I invite you to send us a little note letting 0:52:42.239 --> 0:52:46.040 us know of your your brilliant idea. UM, you can 0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:48.240 learn that note to our email address it's tech stuff 0:52:48.280 --> 0:52:50.560 at Discovery dot com, or you can drop us a 0:52:50.600 --> 0:52:53.080 line on Facebook or Twitter or handle of both of 0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:55.360 those is tech Stuff, hs W and Chris and I 0:52:55.440 --> 0:52:59.480 will talk to you again really soon. For more on this, 0:52:59.680 --> 0:53:02.160 and of thons of other topics, visit how stuff works 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:02.600 dot com.