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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Style from how

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Speaker 1: stuff flix dot com. Hello there, everyone, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and I am

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Speaker 1: an editor at how stuff works dot com. Sitting across

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Speaker 1: from me as usual as senior writer Jonathan's trick. Hey there,

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Speaker 1: and today we're continuing the conversation we began in our

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Speaker 1: previous episode about Adobe, which if you're just tuning in,

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Speaker 1: in our last episode, we ended in Adobe's well. So

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Speaker 1: it was when Adobe merged with a company called Aldus

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Speaker 1: and became Adobe Systems Incorporated. Now, now, when you mix

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Speaker 1: the mud with the water, you wanted to kind of Adobe,

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Speaker 1: that kind of Adobe. I'm gonna need some new notes. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: Chris is gonna go bye bye for a little while.

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Speaker 1: Uh No. So yeah, Adobe, of course, at this point

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Speaker 1: in its existence, was really really focused on top publishing

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Speaker 1: and desktop video editing software and getting into some other

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Speaker 1: arenas as well. They're starting to look into three D rendering.

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Speaker 1: They were looking into developing things for web pages, which

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Speaker 1: you know, in the early nineties, the web is in

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Speaker 1: its infancy, it's it's hasn't really taken off yet. Uh

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Speaker 1: and and also into other venues as well. So Adobe

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Speaker 1: starting to branch out beyond the traditional font management software

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Speaker 1: that it had kind of cut its teeth on. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're looking at a time when there was still a

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Speaker 1: lot of fragmentation out there. Sure, you know, we we

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Speaker 1: talk on on tech stuff a lot about older technologies,

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Speaker 1: just because I think it kind of puts what we

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Speaker 1: have now into a lot of context. UM. We've talked

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Speaker 1: in the past about the main frames that they used

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Speaker 1: to use before the Internet really hooked everything up, and

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Speaker 1: all these different machines used different operating systems, they use

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Speaker 1: different programming languages. UM and UH. One of the one

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Speaker 1: of the things one of the reasons if you especially

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Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to UH to the first episode

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Speaker 1: of the Adobe UH two parter um, one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons that the founders of Adobe decided to branch out

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Speaker 1: from their work at Xerox Park was they wanted to

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Speaker 1: create technologies that would enable people to standardize UM specifically

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Speaker 1: in this case for publishing the purposes of print publishing.

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Speaker 1: But UM, they you you will find that as we're talking,

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Speaker 1: especially in this second part of the podcast, that the

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Speaker 1: the technologies and formats that Adobe has created have really

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Speaker 1: done that. UM. And this is a time in the

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Speaker 1: in the mid es when we're moving from UH. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Macintosh operating system is moving forward, UM the UH

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Speaker 1: you know, some of the other different competitors have fallen out,

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Speaker 1: a tar st has gone by this point for the

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Speaker 1: most part, UM Amigas has long since UH foundered and

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Speaker 1: been saved and founder again, etcetera. UM. So it's really

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Speaker 1: sort of a a two part race for the most part.

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Speaker 1: The people who are using uh PCs based on IBM

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Speaker 1: S technologies and UM and people who are using the

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Speaker 1: Mac and and as Jonathan alluded to in the previous episode,

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Speaker 1: the Mac people right now are still sort of designers.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's if you're going to be doing desktop publishing,

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Speaker 1: you need to Mac. But Adobe was smart and hedging

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Speaker 1: its bets. They started producing software for the Windows operating System.

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Speaker 1: More people have used I mean OS two. The IBM

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Speaker 1: UM operating system is kind of fallen off by this

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Speaker 1: period too, so UM that that was the right horse

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Speaker 1: to back was the Windows Operating System. And with Windows

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Speaker 1: three point x and then Windows ninety five around the

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Speaker 1: time we're starting to talk about it's really becoming a

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Speaker 1: situation where that the technologies are are getting more similar

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Speaker 1: than dissimilar. And of course, uh, you know, already we

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Speaker 1: had the whole model of the enterprise leaning toward Windows

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Speaker 1: based machines as opposed to Mac machines. So with entire

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Speaker 1: companies uh investing in Windows PCs, it meant that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you wanted to make sure you you catered to that

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Speaker 1: particular market as well. There were going to be a

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Speaker 1: lot of Windows PC machines out there, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of businesses do some form of publishing, whether it's for

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Speaker 1: internal documents or it's an actual company that produces stuff

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Speaker 1: that will go to external clients or customers. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was very important for Adobe to look into that,

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Speaker 1: and in they went on something of a bit of

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Speaker 1: an acquisition spree. They acquired a company called Visual where

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Speaker 1: uh they acquired a Seneca Communications which made website creation

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Speaker 1: tools like I said, you know, early days of the web,

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Speaker 1: and Adobe saying we need to get into this. They

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Speaker 1: acquired hyphen which was a printer software company. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: they they acquired frame Technology, which created a software called

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Speaker 1: FrameMaker UM which was all about producing and manipulating large

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Speaker 1: structured documents. Now, if you aren't a technical writer. This

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Speaker 1: might not sound terribly interesting, but if you are a

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Speaker 1: technical writer and you have to create long, complicated technical documents,

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Speaker 1: something like FrameMaker which would allow you to produce those

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Speaker 1: and and uh switch things around, uh relatively painlessly, that's

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Speaker 1: a big deal. You know, you're talking about very complex documents.

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Speaker 1: I know people who have used FrameMaker. Yeah, they would.

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Speaker 1: They would probably take exception to your your painless painlessly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I realized that painless is again your mileage may very

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Speaker 1: tight term, just like open was in our last episode.

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Speaker 1: But the goal of FrameMaker at any rate was to

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Speaker 1: make this easier for large complex documents, to manipulate those. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not it succeeded was probably more of a

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Speaker 1: case by case basis. Well, when you put it, when

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Speaker 1: you put it in terms of what people had to

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Speaker 1: do to create those same kinds of documents before computers

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Speaker 1: were on everyone's desktop, Uh, it's considerably painlessly. Yeah, much

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Speaker 1: much easier. At that same time, they began to license

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Speaker 1: a programming language created by Sun Microsystems called Java, and

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Speaker 1: they were licensing it with the intent on integrating it

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Speaker 1: with their Adobe Acrobat product. So, uh, Java is not

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Speaker 1: an Adobe product. It came from Sun Microsystems, but Adobe

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Speaker 1: did license it for some of its own products. They

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Speaker 1: also ended a licensing agreement that year they ended the

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Speaker 1: agreement with Photoshop. They decided to cut that license because

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Speaker 1: they decided to buy Photoshop outright for thirty five and

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Speaker 1: a half million dollars. So that pet project of Thomas Knowles,

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Speaker 1: who created his display software program a few years before,

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Speaker 1: turned out to be quite a windfall for him. The

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Speaker 1: thirty half thirty five and a half million dollar deal

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Speaker 1: with Adobe after after a fairly lucrative licensing agreement. So uh,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was one of those right

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Speaker 1: place to be during the right time kind of situations,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then also that year, Acrobat becomes integrated

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Speaker 1: with a browser called Netscape. New listeners, young listeners might

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Speaker 1: not be familiar with the name Netscape, but Netscape at

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Speaker 1: one time was a dominant web browser. Um you had

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Speaker 1: essentially you had two web browsers battling it out for supremacy.

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Speaker 1: There was Netscape and there was Internet Explorer, and then

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Speaker 1: Internet Explorer kind of one for a while, and then

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Speaker 1: other browsers rose up to a challenge Internet Explorer. But

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Speaker 1: Netscape was a big name back in the day, there

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Speaker 1: were there were there were other browsers, quite a few

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Speaker 1: of the UM, most of which you really will never

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Speaker 1: hear of. Right, the market share for those was tiny

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Speaker 1: in comparison, and and that's really thanks in large part

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Speaker 1: to Microsoft because um Netscape was a paid product back then.

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Speaker 1: If you wanted the Netscape web browser, you forked over

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Speaker 1: money because I know this because I did that. And

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Speaker 1: then Microsoft released Internet Explorer for free. Yeah. Also, this

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Speaker 1: was the same era when Internet Explorer and Windows were

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Speaker 1: so tightly integrated that it caused problems for Microsoft in

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Speaker 1: the court systems where they were talking about Microsoft kind

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Speaker 1: of unfairly biasing everything toward Internet Explorer so that you

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Speaker 1: would effectively not have a choice trying to become a

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Speaker 1: monopoly in the browser world. That's a totally different story though,

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Speaker 1: so we don't really need to go into that, but

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Speaker 1: it's just interesting background with what's going on during the

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Speaker 1: time that Adobe is making all these acquisitions and licensing agreements. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they release more updates to their product line. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to go into all of them because frankly, it

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Speaker 1: would take several episodes and I'm not sure that it

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Speaker 1: would be that interesting. I will say that they did

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Speaker 1: release the first edition of page Mill, which was, according

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Speaker 1: to the box, the easiest way to create pages for

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Speaker 1: the World Wide Web, because that's what we used to

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Speaker 1: call it, and I and to that, I would just say, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe back then it was the easiest. I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you you remember having to create a web page by

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Speaker 1: coding it in in HTML and then saving the htmail document,

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Speaker 1: then opening up a browser, opening the h Gmail document,

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Speaker 1: looking at it, say that's not the way I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be. Close out the browser, reopened the HTML editor,

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Speaker 1: go back into it and change another line of HTML.

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Speaker 1: I say, code, but it's really a mark up language.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, they that was a pain. Yeah, well, well

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Speaker 1: this this if you wanted to get into the Web,

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Speaker 1: and lots and lots of people did. At this point.

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Speaker 1: It was it was being likened to the Great land

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Speaker 1: Rush type thing where the West, yeah, the wild West,

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Speaker 1: or or space. You know, it's it's wide open and

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Speaker 1: anybody can do this, and people wanted to learn how

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Speaker 1: to do this, and you kind of had two choices,

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Speaker 1: which you we still really do, but uh, it was

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Speaker 1: less familiar to people at that time. So you either

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Speaker 1: learned how you bought a book on how to code HTML,

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Speaker 1: or you got software to help you with this, like

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Speaker 1: for example, Page mill or um uh front page, I

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Speaker 1: remember front Page. And you know, there were there were

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Speaker 1: there were situations where you you'd go, Okay, well I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and uh, you know, bite the

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Speaker 1: bullet and go ahead and buy a program to help

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Speaker 1: me do this. And it worked some of the time.

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Speaker 1: And at other times you look in the code and

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Speaker 1: if you knew anything about the code, you go, what's that?

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Speaker 1: You know, why is why is it injecting all this

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Speaker 1: stuff that really doesn't it's not necessary for me to

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Speaker 1: align my text to the left. It was, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was the attempt of the early software the software

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Speaker 1: engineers to um, you know, make an attempt to make

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Speaker 1: coding easier for HTML users, and eventually this would develop

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Speaker 1: into whizzywig editors, which of course is the what you

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Speaker 1: see is what you get where you know, the all

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Speaker 1: the coding part is hidden away from you, so you

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Speaker 1: don't have to pay attention to it. You just see

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Speaker 1: the representation of it on your screen and you move

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Speaker 1: things around to where you want them. And saw a

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Speaker 1: lot of web development tools are these days now grant

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Speaker 1: most of them also allow you to go into the

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Speaker 1: H T M L if you want to do it

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Speaker 1: the old fashioned way or you want to tweak things

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Speaker 1: very specifically, and you don't you know, you want to

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Speaker 1: do it via code as opposed to clicking and dragging

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Speaker 1: something on a screen. But yeah, this is this kind

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Speaker 1: of predates the whole wizzy Wig stuff. Yeah, well and

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Speaker 1: until Macromedia comes out with, um with dream Weaver, which

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Speaker 1: is I believe you can we can make it through

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Speaker 1: the night. Well, dream Weaver is a is a sort

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Speaker 1: of best of both worlds sort of situation where you

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Speaker 1: can do wizzy Wig editing, but you can also really

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Speaker 1: get into the code. Actually, there was a company called

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Speaker 1: go Live that also came out with a similar program.

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Speaker 1: So go Live and uh and Macromedia we're coming out

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Speaker 1: with these advanced HTML editors and will play a part

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Speaker 1: in the story. And and dream Weaver and um, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: and uh, page Mill, well, page Mill is now sitting

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Speaker 1: in deep in the ground where it was stomped. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's okay because Adobe, even though perhaps its own

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Speaker 1: product did not win out in that war h Adobe

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Speaker 1: still stood tall. And we'll get into why. But there

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Speaker 1: their revenue that year because I was doing revenue in

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Speaker 1: the previous ones, I'm not gonna do this every single year.

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Speaker 1: It was seven hundred sixty two millions. So they're creeping

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Speaker 1: up on a billion dollars in revenue. They had over

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Speaker 1: two thousand employees at this point, two thousand two. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then the next year in ninety, Adobe acquired a

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Speaker 1: company called Swell Software. Yeah, so they developed web server software.

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Speaker 1: And they also acquired a company called Aries Software, which

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Speaker 1: was another font scaling company. If you listen to part one,

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Speaker 1: you probably heard us talk about Adobe buying every font

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Speaker 1: scaling company that seemed to come come into existence, because

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Speaker 1: again that was very uh much part of their their

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Speaker 1: focus with desktop publishing and electronic publishing in general. Then

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Speaker 1: you have two D scale the fonts if you want

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Speaker 1: to eat them. So then after that, after that, Adobe

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Speaker 1: all so decided to spin off one of its divisions.

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Speaker 1: They had this whole prep press application software company spinoff

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Speaker 1: that they called Luminous Corporation, and Adobe Systems Incorporated relocates.

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Speaker 1: Yet again, Now, if you listen again to the previous episode,

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Speaker 1: you heard about them getting a start in Mountain View

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Speaker 1: and then moving to Palo Alto, and then moving back

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Speaker 1: to Mountain View, and now they're making their move to

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Speaker 1: where they where Adobe headquarters are today, which is well,

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Speaker 1: you know the way, it's San Jose, do do do? Anyway,

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Speaker 1: So they go to San Jose, California, and uh, moving

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Speaker 1: on to nineties seven more acquisitions, which it's kind of

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Speaker 1: amazing if you look at Adobe's history and you look

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Speaker 1: at all the companies that's acquired. I never realized how

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Speaker 1: many companies Adobe butt. I think of companies like Google,

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Speaker 1: which I think of as being pretty you know, at

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Speaker 1: least during certain eras of Google's history, they they've swept

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Speaker 1: up quite a few companies. Uh. And then there are

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Speaker 1: other companies that are in Microsoft has done the same

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. It's brought up several smaller companies. But

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Speaker 1: I never really thought of Adobe being one of those.

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Speaker 1: I knew about them making some major acquisitions and matures,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't realize how many how many companies Adobe acquired,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was a lot. So yeah, nine seven

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Speaker 1: Sandcastle which was a two way internet communication company, Digi Docs,

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Speaker 1: which was a personalized PDF creation software company. Uh, fine

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Speaker 1: Point which was web graphics software company. I mean they

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Speaker 1: every year, it seems like they're they're acquiring at least

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Speaker 1: two or three companies kind of kind of uh interesting

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Speaker 1: and scary. Well, um, this is around the time when

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Speaker 1: Macromedia was really uh putting the hurt on Adobe because

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Speaker 1: um in h is when they introduced Flash. So you know,

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Speaker 1: Adobe really had no uh, no concrete answer for how

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Speaker 1: um for software like flash, which is still today one

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Speaker 1: of the most popular ways of providing rich Internet content,

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Speaker 1: especially now that that broadband technology is uh is so common.

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Speaker 1: And I would even argue that Flash in some ways

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Speaker 1: probably had an effect on broadband becoming more popular because

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Speaker 1: with more interactive and interesting content with the ability to

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Speaker 1: to create that using Macromedia Flash, UM, that made having

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Speaker 1: faster Internet speeds more compelling because there was something to

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Speaker 1: get um and it was it was that next year

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Speaker 1: in where where Macromedia came out with dream Weaver to

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Speaker 1: to create web pages. So um, you know Adobe is

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Speaker 1: is even though it's a you know, the number two

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Speaker 1: software firm in the world, behind only Microsoft, in um,

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Speaker 1: it's there's still places that can improve. And they also

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Speaker 1: that year launched the NOIDA Research and Development Center, So

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Speaker 1: this was a division specifically to you know, they would

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Speaker 1: they would dedicate resources to the center to try and

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Speaker 1: find new and innovative ways to improve either existing products

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Speaker 1: or come up with brand new products. So in a way,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of Adobe's version of Park, which of

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Speaker 1: course is what the two founders of Adobe. What the

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Speaker 1: world that they came out of. Uh So, now and

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Speaker 1: they have a new employee, uh a fellow who originally

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Speaker 1: came from India, And so I'm going to completely butcher

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Speaker 1: the pronunciation of his name, and I apologize for that

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Speaker 1: because I it's my cultural illiteracy, and that's the only reason.

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Speaker 1: But Shantanu Narayan, who joins Adobe as the VP and

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Speaker 1: General Manager of Engineering Technology Group. I he was a

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Speaker 1: former executive at Apple and then after that he was

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Speaker 1: the founder of a digital photo sharing company, Pictra Incorporated.

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Speaker 1: It was actually one of the first companies to look

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Speaker 1: into digital photo sharing. Anyway, this man will become very

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Speaker 1: important to Adobe in the future. He was He also

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Speaker 1: has a meteorc rise. He may have heard of us

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Speaker 1: talking about chisen Um having a meteorc rise as well.

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Speaker 1: Throughout these years, he is steadily climbing the executive ladder

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Speaker 1: over at Adobe. Well that year Adobe Ship's image ready

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Speaker 1: one an image Styler one, along with updates to pretty

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Speaker 1: much everything else in its software suite. Um. And we

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Speaker 1: move on to ninety nine and we talked about go

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Speaker 1: Live again. That was the company you were talking about earlier, Chris. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was basically the competition to dream Leaver, right. So

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Speaker 1: Adobe is like, hey, I know how we can compete.

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Speaker 1: Let's buy go Live. So they did. So go Live

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Speaker 1: created this macweb authoring tool, and uh, Adobe sweeps them up. Um.

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Speaker 1: They also acquired Attitude Software, which was a three D

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Speaker 1: technologies company. UH, photo Merge, which was a photo stitching

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Speaker 1: software company. Photo stitching, for those who do not know,

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Speaker 1: that is the software that allows you to take multiple

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Speaker 1: photographs and then merge them together to make one image.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of companies that do this, but

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Speaker 1: photo Merged was one of them. In Adobe jumped on

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Speaker 1: that opportunity. UH. That year, they shipped a product called

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Speaker 1: document Server one. This was a pretty important piece of software.

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Speaker 1: It's not something that you would have purchased as just

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Speaker 1: an average computer owner. But what document server one allowed

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Speaker 1: UH people to do is if you if you installed

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Speaker 1: this on a server, it would allow folks to view

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Speaker 1: PDF files through a browser without first having to download

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Speaker 1: Adobe Acrobat Reader or some other clients software. That's the

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Speaker 1: way it had to be done. Previously, you would you know,

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Speaker 1: the browser itself was not capable of displaying PDF without

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Speaker 1: a plug in, essentially, so you had to get Adobe

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Speaker 1: Acrobat Reader before this. Now, what this software did was

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Speaker 1: on the server side, so it's not client side. You

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Speaker 1: didn't have to have it on your personal machine. On

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Speaker 1: the server side and installed the software that would convert

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Speaker 1: PDF documents into JEFF or jpeg formats and then so on.

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Speaker 1: You know, those are file formats that any browser could display.

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Speaker 1: So your browser would be able to show the JEFF

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Speaker 1: or jpeg version of a PDF document, so you're not

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Speaker 1: looking at the true PDF version, you're looking at an

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Speaker 1: image of it. Um But that meant that you didn't

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Speaker 1: have to install something additional into your browser of choice.

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Speaker 1: They also shipped a product called active Share, which was

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Speaker 1: software that had sort of a simplified photo editing suite

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Speaker 1: of tools, and it was men for the average user,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of the Adobe products previous to this

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Speaker 1: point were meant for people who were specialists. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about photography specialists or are people who you know,

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Speaker 1: it's they're living to retouch photos, that kind of thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: they needed tools that had a lot of sophistication, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes with sophistication comes complexity, which is a barrier for

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Speaker 1: an average user, someone who doesn't do this for a living,

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Speaker 1: someone who's who's interested in it, but they don't have

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Speaker 1: the expertise to you know, if you if you hand

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Speaker 1: them a tool chest that has a thousand tools in it,

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Speaker 1: it's just overwhelming. So this was Adobe's attempt to kind

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Speaker 1: of address a different market. We're talking about the average

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Speaker 1: consumer and say, look, this software will let you share

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Speaker 1: your photos and you can even do some simple touch ups.

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Speaker 1: Most of it automated, so that way it wasn't too

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Speaker 1: intimidating for the average user. UM and they shipped a

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Speaker 1: product called press Ready, which was a publishing tool for

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Speaker 1: in jet printers. And nine was the first year that

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Speaker 1: Adobe hit the one billion dollar revenue mark. M so

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Speaker 1: big year for Adobe. Yeah, and I remember in in

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Speaker 1: Design came out. UM that was you know then the

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Speaker 1: basically sort of the the update, if you will, although

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Speaker 1: it wasn't an update to PageMaker, which it bought from

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Speaker 1: all this or when it acquired all of this. UM

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know there it was still uh, it

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Speaker 1: was still a little different from from PageMaker at that

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Speaker 1: At that point, Adobe's PageMaker was going up against Cork

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Speaker 1: with its Cork Express software and those two were the

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Speaker 1: big publishing uh platforms of choice. And then in design

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Speaker 1: was you know, Adobe says, you know, this is brand new,

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Speaker 1: written from the ground up. It's going to take over

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Speaker 1: the world. It's it's much better than than our old stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's much better than their stuff. And you know, right

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Speaker 1: out of the gate, maybe not, but that would go

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Speaker 1: on to uh to do very very well, and they

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Speaker 1: eventually would phase out the PageMaker right yep. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand they are ranked as number forty two Unfortune's Best

375
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Speaker 1: Companies list, which was a point of pride for them.

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Speaker 1: They acquired a company called glass Book, which was they

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Speaker 1: created software for reading, creating and deploying e books. So

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Speaker 1: another big move we're talking about now. Again, e publishing

379
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Speaker 1: was always something Adobe was interested in, but now we're

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Speaker 1: talking about e books in particular. This is definitely the

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Speaker 1: early days of the books two thousand. Uh, it was

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Speaker 1: CD screens really a niche market, not not doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of business in this but Adobe kind of could

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Speaker 1: see the writing on the tablet and uh, sorry to

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Speaker 1: get into it. This was also another another monumental year

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Speaker 1: for Adobe in the sense that there was a big

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Speaker 1: change at the top. Warnock and Gesh became co chairman

388
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Speaker 1: of the Board of Directors and Bruce Chisen became the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Adobe Systems Incorporated. Yeah, he retired from his

390
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: his typical post and went on to U you know,

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Speaker 1: to join the board and sort of step down from

392
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Speaker 1: the day to day stuff. So. Um. Adobe also shipped

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Speaker 1: a product called live Motion one, which was product that

394
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Speaker 1: was all about web graphics and animation software, and uh,

395
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Speaker 1: a publication management and collaboration tool called in Scope one,

396
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Speaker 1: and um, yeah, so they're again they're diversifying a bit.

397
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Speaker 1: So it's not just digital publishing for static documents, but

398
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Speaker 1: also yet more web page publication tools. Yeah. And a

399
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Speaker 1: focus on cross platform to which uh you know has

400
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Speaker 1: has been for and from where we are now the

401
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Speaker 1: focus for many years, you know, building formats and and

402
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Speaker 1: and uh making tools to create those those formats that

403
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Speaker 1: will work on Windows and Macintosh computers both. Yeah. So

404
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: that way, no matter who argues ATOBEE still wins. UM

405
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Speaker 1: two thousand one, another huge year, a artificially intelligent computer

406
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Speaker 1: by the name of how started to off space explorers

407
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Speaker 1: one by one because of the problem. Okay, now my

408
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Speaker 1: notes are wrong. No, In two thousand one, they made

409
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Speaker 1: a big deal with a a major retail establishment, Barnes

410
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Speaker 1: and Noble. So the deal was that they would start

411
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Speaker 1: to sell electronic books in PDF format through Barnes and Noble.

412
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Speaker 1: So again a little early for that, but it was,

413
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Speaker 1: you know, that sort of seeing what the future was

414
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Speaker 1: going to be in the publication industry, so that was

415
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Speaker 1: kind of an interesting They also, of course, you know,

416
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Speaker 1: we can't go a year without them acquiring somebody, so

417
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Speaker 1: they acquired the company called Fativa, which was a digital

418
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Speaker 1: photography saw were company, and they also began to license

419
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Speaker 1: software from Sonic Solutions Technology. Sonic Solutions Technology was a

420
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Speaker 1: company that created DVD authoring software. So now we're getting

421
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Speaker 1: into not just publication for the web or for the desktop,

422
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Speaker 1: or even hard copy paper documentation with you know, the

423
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Speaker 1: PostScript printer stuff. We're talking about creating DVDs. So they

424
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Speaker 1: also they also shipped special versions of Acrobat Reader for

425
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Speaker 1: a couple of different formats, and this is I'm mentioning

426
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Speaker 1: this just to see Chris's reaction. Uh, this was the

427
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Speaker 1: year two tho one when they shipped Acrobat Reader for

428
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Speaker 1: palm Os. I have a little moment of silence for

429
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Speaker 1: palm Os. Alright, that's enough, Um, you know you. Yeah,

430
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: we've done an episode on Palm and we've done an

431
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: episode on HP. So if you really want to know

432
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: the whole grizzly story about Palm, well it was. It's

433
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: sort of again, it's sort of a foreshadowing of how

434
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: important the mobile market would end up being. Yeah, this

435
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: is again a very early entry into the mobile market.

436
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: We're talking about back in the days of the personal

437
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: digital assistant days, So we have personal digital assistance for

438
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: those of you who don't remember, are smartphones without the phone,

439
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: who would do that? But in general, that's kind of

440
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: what it was. So yeah, this was an idea of well,

441
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: let's let's let's create a version of Acrobat Reader. They

442
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: will work on a mobile device, so that way you

443
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: can load a document on a mobile device and take

444
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: it with you and you don't have to have a

445
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: computer to set up so that you can read whatever

446
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: the document is. Uh. And in two thousand two they

447
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: celebrated their twentieth anniversary. Oh yes, and they also acquired

448
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: a company, um, a Chilio or a Celio, depending on

449
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you pronounce it, but they was

450
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: a company that made web enabled electronic forms, and specifically

451
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: these forms were designed to improve business processes. So that's

452
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: his exciting as it sounds, yes, but it's very important.

453
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: It's very lucrative, right, um. Yeah, and and uh and

454
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: also in two thousand one, by the way, I have

455
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: listed that John Warnock retired officially from day to day

456
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: operations of the company, so the founders are no longer

457
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: doing the every day Actually they probably were, but but

458
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: just for frenzies. Uh So, moving onto two thousand three.

459
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,239
Speaker 1: At two thousand three, they hit their peak as far

460
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: as I can tell anyway, on the Fortune's Best One lists,

461
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: they rose all the way to number five. So they

462
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: had been appearing on the list year after year, but

463
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, I believe two thousand three was

464
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: when they got as high up on the list as

465
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: they've ever been. They also, of course, guess what they did,

466
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: acquired a company, yes, Centrillium, which was a digital audio

467
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: tool company, and they also acquired a company called Yellow

468
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: Dragon Technology, which was again all be getting into a business.

469
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: Very early on, Yellow Dragon Technology created x m L

470
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: messaging and metadata management software, so x m L Extensible

471
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Markup Language was something developed to make web pages a

472
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: more rich medium because HTML had certain limitations that it

473
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: was not really able to go beyond without additional stuff

474
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: supporting it, and XML in a way is one of

475
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: the many things that kind of bolstered HTML. Also made

476
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: it easier to do things like the metadata menada is

477
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: very important. Mentadata kind of tells a computer program what

478
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: the content of a particular document, whether it's web page

479
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: or uh you know, a document like a like you know,

480
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: just something that you're creating on a computer. It gives

481
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: the computer information about what that documents about or how

482
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: to uh sw that document and this this becomes really

483
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: important in lots of different applications. The one that a

484
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: lot of people refer to because it's a very easy

485
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: illustration is search. So if you are searching for stuff

486
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: and the search program looks through meta data to try

487
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: and find documents that relate to whatever your search terms are,

488
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: you need to have a really good meta data management

489
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: system in order to make sure people are finding your

490
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: stuff when they're searching for it. Um. Because this this

491
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: can make or break a business. Yeah. It was especially

492
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: important in the earlier days of the web when the

493
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: search engine uh spiders, which is basically a piece of

494
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: software that goes from page to page on the Internet.

495
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: They were less sophisticated than they are now um at

496
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: at reading the content on the page and determining context

497
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: from from the way the content is marked up in

498
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: HTML or or you know, some form of XML so

499
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: um or PHP um so h yeah, there are others

500
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: um but um. But yeah, I mean it's sort of

501
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: relied on people marking up a page under and in

502
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: the code that you wouldn't necessarily see with tags that

503
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: they wanted to be associated with meta information and uh

504
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: so this this was a very important uh you know,

505
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: business to being involved in at that point. Granted, people

506
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: started to figure out ways to gain the system by

507
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: putting in irrelevant information and sta data so that they

508
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: would get lots of traffic. Uh it wouldn't necessarily be

509
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: productive traffic because people would go to the page and say,

510
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: this is not what I was looking for at all. Uh,

511
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: It's just that someone happened to include stuff in meta data.

512
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: That's the reason why the Google algorithm is so sophisticated.

513
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: It needed to do things like just completely disregard meta

514
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: data for the most part and concentrate on the content

515
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: of the web page itself in order to try and

516
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: get you the best results for whatever search query you

517
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: put in, and other other search engines do similar things

518
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: using you know, a very uh complex approach to curating data. Uh.

519
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: So we're still in two thousand three. They also decided

520
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: to ship some products. You know, they weren't happy just

521
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: acquiring companies, so beyond updating their suite of software, Adobe

522
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: also shipped new stuff like Encore DVD, also a piece

523
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: of software called Audition one, which was a digital audio

524
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: editing environment that this was mainly meant for professionals, people

525
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 1: who are you that's their living is editing audio, So

526
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: this wasn't something that the average user would go out

527
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: and buy necessarily. Um. They also had a product called

528
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: Version Q, which was a file management system. Uh and

529
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: again this doesn't sound particularly sexy or anything, but Version

530
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: Q what it would allow you to do is track

531
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: different versions of files so that you could zero in

532
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: on the specific version you needed to whenever you were

533
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: doing publication. This is incredibly important in the publishing world,

534
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: particularly before there were a lot of collaborative environments available,

535
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: because you know, typically what would happen is someone would

536
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: create a file on their machine and then they might

537
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: copy that file onto a disk or later on a

538
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: USB drive, or perhaps email it to someone else who

539
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,719
Speaker 1: would then open it perhaps make some changes. Well, now

540
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: you've got two versions of that file out there in

541
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: the wild. There's the original version that's on the person

542
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: who created its machine, there's the edited version that's on

543
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: the other machine that the edited version might get sent

544
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: to someone else and makes further changes. So you very

545
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: quickly get into the situation where someone coming from outside

546
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: may not know which version is the one they need

547
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: to work with. Yeah, so version Q was kind of

548
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: a way to help try and keep tabs on what's

549
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: going on so that confusion would not ruin a project.

550
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: And trust me, I've worked on projects that where where

551
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: we had major setbacks because someone was using an out

552
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: of date file for part of the project. Um, not

553
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: a how stuff works. I was gonna say, I'm sorry

554
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: about that. No, No, it wasn't at how stuff works.

555
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: It was in my previous life working in other venues

556
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: that I will not name, but anyway, it is a

557
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: very frustrating experience. So again, not not something that you know,

558
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: those of us who are gamers would necessarily think as exciting,

559
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: but it's very very important. And you know, Uh, Macromedia

560
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: around this time has bundled uh it's some of its

561
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: software together. You know, the freehand um drawing program that's

562
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: sort of a competitor for Adobe Illustrator and Flash and fireworks,

563
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: um Dreamweaver. That's uh, every time you say that, the

564
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: song goes through my head, I'm I'm just imagining Wayne's world. Okay. Anyhow, Um,

565
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: and so yeah, around this time, back in two thousand three,

566
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: Adobe fights back. It bundles together first version of its

567
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: Creative Suite, Version one point Oh yeah. So this was

568
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, definitely a way of making a stand and

569
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: putting together these products that Adobe was known for and

570
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: pricing them in a way where someone who is really

571
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: really determined to go into desktop publishing could get all

572
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: the tools they need in one suite as opposed to

573
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: buying it piecemeal. Well yeah, because um, you might prefer

574
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: one company's tool over another, You might prefer Illustrator over freehand.

575
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: But then you'd want dream weaver to Uh yeah, I

576
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: did that on purpose to do your web design and

577
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: maybe flash and but you needed Photoshop. So and of

578
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: course Macromedia and Adobe both knew this. Okay, well, we'll

579
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: put together a bundle of software that's maybe a little

580
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: cheaper than if you bought them all together, you know,

581
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: one by one, and maybe we can lock people into

582
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: our environment. Gee that that's not anything like the way

583
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: software companies do that today, not at all. So two

584
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: thousand four, let's get the acquisitions out of the way.

585
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: Q Link Business Process Management suffer a company and okay,

586
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: y z or o kis so the three D technology company.

587
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: H we're both acquired by Adobe. Uh. And in two

588
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: thousand five A Shantanu Narai, and you know I mentioned

589
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: him earlier, he becomes the president and CEO O of

590
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: Adobe Systems. And this is also two thou five was

591
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: a big, big year because that whole macro media company

592
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: that has been a thorn in adobe side for so long.

593
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: They announced Adobe announces a plan to acquire Macromedia and

594
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: uh and the acquisition is done in an all stock transaction,

595
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: so instead of cash changing hands, we're talking about stocks,

596
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: and it was valued at three point four billion with

597
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: a B dollars. Yes, to to put that in perspective,

598
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: the revenue for that year was one point nine six

599
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: billion in for Adobe. So you're talking about, you know,

600
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: a deal that's uh, it's more than a well nearly

601
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: twice the amount of what the revenue was for that year. Yeah.

602
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: And as you might expect this, Uh, this caused a

603
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: lot of consternation over whether or not this would be

604
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: permitted because, um, you know, Adobe and Macromedia had been

605
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: the two big creative packages that that fought against one another. Again,

606
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: like I said, they had bundled their software. You were

607
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: you were an Adobe person or you're a Macromedia person,

608
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: and uh, well you know that sort of made it

609
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: a monopoly in some people's eyes. Uh not so as

610
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: far as regulators, they decided to go ahead and permit

611
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: that to happen. Yeah. And uh and this is when

612
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: Adobe takes stewardship of Flash. Uh, savior of the universe.

613
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: Now we're now we're we we transferred to queen. Uh.

614
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: This is we haven't really touched on it here all

615
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: the we did talk about a bit with XML. Flash

616
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: was one of those things developed to give more functionality

617
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: through the web browsing experience than HTML could provide on

618
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: its own. Uh. When we did our episode about HTML five,

619
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: we talked about flash quite a bit. Uh. It was

620
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: are you are you smiling because you're thinking of the

621
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: song every time? Okay? So so dreamweaver for me and

622
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: flash for you? That makes sense? Okay, So anyway, yeah,

623
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: it's like that. So Flash was a way to have

624
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: these rich media experiences within a web environment that would

625
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: not natively be supported by HTML and meant that you

626
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: had to install this plug in on your browser so

627
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: that you could be able to access this content. Otherwise

628
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: you would just get a little error message saying you

629
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: could not see whatever it was that was on there.

630
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: And so um Untobe took ownership of that at this point.

631
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: So that's kind of why if you've ever if you've

632
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: always heard of Flash associated with Adobe, that's why it

633
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: was in two thousand five when they acquired Macromedia. Two

634
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: thousand six, they continued acquiring companies. They acquired file Line

635
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: Digital Rights Management, which was actually a division from uh

636
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: novice Ware. Digital rights management is one of those terms

637
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: that is almost like a four letter word in the

638
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: minds of many people who follow technology. Digital rights management,

639
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: of course, is all about protecting intellectual property by putting

640
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: limitations on what people can do with software in an

641
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: attempt to prevent piracy. UH. A lot of the complaints

642
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: around DRM from the consumer side stem from the fact

643
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: that sometimes these restrictions are they go too far. For instance,

644
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: having a DRM that requires that you have a persistent

645
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: connection to the Internet to work on software that is

646
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: not itself dependent upon Internet connectivity. That would seem prohibitive.

647
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: If I'm running a program and all it needs to

648
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: do is run natively on my machine, I should have

649
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: an expectation that that machine does not need to be

650
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: hooked up to the Internet for me to successfully run

651
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: this software. At least that's that's the general argument. I

652
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: happen to agree with that argument, but I should say

653
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: that's just one perspective, and I'm not. I don't mean

654
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: to say that's the end all be all. Uh. They

655
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: also acquired Traded Technologies France TTF, which created software to

656
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: allow interoperability between CAD systems and multi CAD mock up

657
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: CAD being computer aided design. Yeah so uh yeah, this

658
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: is getting a little more specialized. Uh. They also acquired

659
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: Pixman Tech Technology, which was the digital imaging software company. Also,

660
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: they acquired Interact, which was a web content management company.

661
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: They acquired Serious Magic, which was a video software and

662
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: communications tool company, and they acquired act Imagine Technology, which

663
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: was a video and interactive vector graphics company. So lots

664
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: and lots of acquisitions. In two thousand and six, they

665
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: also it a huge revenue two point five seven five

666
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: billion dollars. The previous year was one point nine six,

667
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: so that's a pretty impressive growth um. And in two

668
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: thousand seven, Bruce Chisen resigns as CEO and Shantanu Narayan

669
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: becomes the new CEO, so he steps up from presidency

670
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: O t CEO UH. That same year, they shipped the

671
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: Photoshop light Room software suite, which lets you manage digital

672
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: images and post production work. And they also produced sound Booth,

673
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: which was an audio editing software suite for people who

674
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: were not audio professionals, So it was a more accessible

675
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: audio tool suite for people who wanted to produce audio

676
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 1: work but didn't have that level of expertise to fiddle

677
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: with all the knobs on that board that's just outside

678
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: this room. That intimidates me every time I see it,

679
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 1: because y'all those things move on their own. Well, um yeah,

680
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 1: they they Adobe had started really getting into the the

681
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: casual hobbyist market. I think they realized, Um, well they've

682
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: their their software has been pirated quite a bit. UM

683
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: and they Photoshop in particular, that's probably one of the

684
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: most pirated pieces of software that I'm aware of, and

685
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: I think in in some way, uh, they have decided

686
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: to reach out to the plain old, everyday consumer as

687
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 1: a result of this, and as a really good business

688
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: opportunity anyway, UM, I think it was sort of for

689
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: for many reasons. But yeah, that that was one of

690
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: a larger series of of UM efforts in that regard,

691
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: like the Element series. UM. Photoshop Elements, for example, is

692
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: a lower cost version that has, um, you know, a

693
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: lesser set of tools that the full version of Photoshop has,

694
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: but it's it's much less expensive too, and it's it's

695
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: basically aimed at, Hey, I photos of stuff, and I

696
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: like my kids and my hobbies, and I you know,

697
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: I like to to shoot photos of of my dog

698
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: and double rainbow UM and stuff like that, and I

699
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: just want to I just want to resize that photo.

700
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: I want to I want to put it in the

701
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: school newsletter for my kids, or I want to put

702
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: up online. And I don't need this crazy resolution to

703
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: make this this one web page way larger than it

704
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: needs to be. You know, I don't need to use

705
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:29,959
Speaker 1: it and see m y K because it's never gonna

706
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: see print or if I if it does it, it

707
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be perfect. Well, you know, they'll be said, hey,

708
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: you know what we can We can offer you tools

709
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: for this, and they, um, they sort of split a

710
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: second line off of their their main line of software

711
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: tools and and started offering those around around this time

712
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: to too people who um, you know, may just not

713
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: need the same to the same kinds of professional level tools,

714
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: and and they were very successful. And this is also

715
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: the time where I alluded to it in the previous episode.

716
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: You know, there was a battle between Apple and Adobe

717
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: with the whole fonts issue where Apple wanted to try

718
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: and develop its own fonts, and it actually eventually did

719
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: because it was licensing fonts from Adobe and felt that

720
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: those licensing fees were becoming prohibitively expensive, so Apple began

721
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: to design their own and well, there was another fight

722
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: that was gearing up around this time. And it's because

723
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, that's also when we had the

724
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: introduction of a piece of technology that has revolutionized consumer

725
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: electronics in the latter half of the first decade of

726
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: two thousand that was that was a complicated sentence thank you,

727
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: That would be the iPhone. So the iPhone comes out.

728
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: It is the first truly successful consumer smartphone in the

729
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: United States. There were other smartphones that were popular in

730
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 1: other parts of the world. There were some smartphones that

731
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: had fans in the US, but they just it just was,

732
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 1: you know, they were in minority. Most people were using

733
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: what we call feature phones now cell phones that had

734
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: some limited web connectivity. I guess they didn't link dumb phones.

735
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 1: I was really working on that. Yeah, Well, the iPhone

736
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: ended up being the first true runaway success smartphone in

737
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: the United States. And Steve jobs Uh famously said that

738
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: he didn't believe that the iPhone or the iOS operating system,

739
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: which at the time was not called iOS but that's

740
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: what we call now, um that it would not support

741
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 1: flash because they decided that it they wouldn't make it happen. Well,

742
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: the essentially what the arguments against it at the time,

743
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: and you could you know, you could maybe uh dispute

744
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: the truth behind it. But the arguments were that flash

745
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: would require so much processing power that it would drain

746
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: the battery life of an iPhone and create an unsatisfactory

747
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: experience for the consumer. So you go out, you buy

748
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: an iPhone, You're like, this is awesome. I'm going to

749
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: serve the web and oh, this is great. I'm looking

750
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 1: all these pages and two hours later like, wait a minute,

751
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: I have to charge this thing again. Um and Steve

752
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: Jobs said that's not a good experience. I don't want

753
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: that to happen on our product. I'm not going to

754
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: allow it to happen because I'm not gonna have Flash

755
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: work on this this device. It created a lot of

756
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: challenges for developers for all sorts of things, what web

757
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: apps as well as iPhone apps, things like that. Um

758
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: and it was kind of a glove in the face

759
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: of Adobe saying, look, we're creating a juggernaut here. This

760
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: is going to be the future of computing, whether you

761
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: like it or not. And we are not supporting this

762
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: product that you have taken ownership of. And um and

763
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: it just got uglier from there. I mean, every people

764
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: started taking sides designers. A lot of designers love Flash

765
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: because I mean they can really show what they can

766
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: do with the with the animation and and you know graphics.

767
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: It's it can make beautiful web applications and hey, you

768
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: know we've touched on it in the past. To h

769
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: the web wasn't designed to do what we do with

770
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: it these days. And Johns's argument was that it would

771
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 1: be better to support the development of HTML five, which

772
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: the next generation of the hypertext markup language that would

773
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: uh natively support things like video and audio uh in

774
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: ways that HTML the previous versions of HTML did not.

775
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: So that was his argument was like, instead of just

776
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: continuously adding on additional elements to our web browsing experience,

777
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: let's redefined, redefined the markup language itself so that we

778
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: don't need all these added elements that are just making

779
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: this clunkier and it's requiring more processing power. Now, this

780
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: is Steve Jobs argument, I should I should point out

781
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: not my own, because I'm an Android phone owner and

782
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: my Android phone runs a version of Flash. Um, but

783
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: that was that was the gauntlet there, and uh as

784
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: the years go on, it got pretty I mean it

785
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: got pretty nasty, to the point where I'm going to

786
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: jump ahead a little bit, but in two thousand and eleven,

787
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: Adobe announced they would stop developing flash for mobile after

788
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: version eleven point one and instead they would focus on

789
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: HTML five. They essentially acquiesced and said, you know, we're

790
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: getting enough pressure here, We're going to stop pushing flash

791
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: for mobile devices. Um and that was you know, that

792
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: was kind of big news. Well, you know, there were

793
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: there was a group of people that was sort of

794
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: in the middle, and I admit I sort of belonged

795
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 1: to that group where I could see why Adobe would

796
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: defend Flash. I mean, you know, it's a flash cow,

797
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: I mean cash cow sort of in a way. I mean,

798
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a good technology and in

799
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: some respects and it there really wasn't There's not anything

800
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: i mean, other than than Microsoft silver Light. There's nothing

801
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 1: that I can think of right off the top of

802
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: my head that's um as as mature as a competitor

803
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: for flash and and like a software that you can

804
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: go build something in and make a website that has

805
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: interactive content like that. UM So you know, they would,

806
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: of course they would defend it. But at the same time,

807
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: I thought, this is Adobe, they should be able to

808
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: come up with some killer HTML five editor and then

809
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: that's really what they did. They introduced their edge UM software,

810
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: which is is uh still you know, sort of brand

811
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: new ish. Uh still very newish, let's say that UM.

812
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: And you know, they're these tools are designed to work

813
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: with HTML five and and other related technologies using UH

814
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: standards like CSS UM and UH web fonts. You're starting

815
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: to become more popular too now that you can have

816
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: fonts load in the cloud rather than having to have

817
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: them on the host's computer to show up UM, which

818
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: is the way it was strictly or you know that's uh.

819
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: These are innovations that they can take advantage of. And

820
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: you know, I can't think of anybody who does that

821
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: that kind of thing quite as well as Adobe. And

822
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: that's my personal opinion. Should probably kind of wrapped this

823
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: up before I finished. I should say. They also acquired

824
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: Business Catalyst, Omnature and Efficient Frontier. Yeah, well they have.

825
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: They've been moving into marketing as well web marketing. UM.

826
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: So it uh, you know, unlike some of the other

827
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: companies that that we've talked about, UM, Adobe has has

828
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: faced stiff competition from from a couple of its uh

829
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: serious serious competitors. I mean, they're still face facing h

830
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: Apple and and Avid and some of the others, but

831
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: they've they've weathered that competition, and uh, you know, there

832
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: hasn't been a lot of uh confusion and drama at

833
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: the top. And there haven't been too many huge like

834
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: departures from Adobe's core business. Like you don't see examples

835
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: of something really really unusual wool that has nothing to

836
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: do with any form of publication or editing, which is

837
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: really what Adobe is known for. You haven't really seen

838
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: anything that goes so far outside of that as to

839
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: make you say, huh. So yeah, I mean that's that's

840
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: kind of the story of Adobe so far. And I

841
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: mean the company is still going strong, and it'll be

842
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: interesting to see how Adobe, uh you know, how how

843
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: it adjusts to the HTML five era, which of course,

844
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, still has not really launched. I mean, there's

845
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,919
Speaker 1: there's some early development in HTML five, but it's still

846
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: not a thing with a capital T yet. Yeah, And

847
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: I think I think that was one of the reasons

848
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: why so many developers still cited on the side of

849
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: Adobe with flash was because flash is mature in HTML

850
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: five has yet to mature. In fact, there's not a

851
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: firm um standard yet. And I've got friends who are

852
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 1: flash animators, you know. They that's the tool they used

853
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,399
Speaker 1: to create anime s and uh they have very strong

854
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: opinions on this subject, understandably so because their livelihood depends

855
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: upon this tool. And uh so their opinions are very

856
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: different from apples. So, I mean it's there. There are

857
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: a lot of sides to this story. We don't mean

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Speaker 1: to try and oversimplify it and say that one company

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00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: has the right perspective over another one. Uh. In many ways,

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00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: you could argue that both perspectives are valid, just for

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00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: different reasons. So anyway, that's the that's the story of

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00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: Adobe in two parts. And uh, we're gonna wrap it

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00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: up here. If you guys have any suggestions for topics

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00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: that we should cover in future episodes of tech Stuff,

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Speaker 1: I invite you to send us a little note letting

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00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: us know of your your brilliant idea. UM, you can

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00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: learn that note to our email address it's tech stuff

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00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com, or you can drop us a

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Speaker 1: line on Facebook or Twitter or handle of both of

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00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: those is tech Stuff, hs W and Chris and I

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00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: will talk to you again really soon. For more on this,

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00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: and of thons of other topics, visit how stuff works

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00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: dot com.