Speaker 1: I get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast, the Duke Duke Duger Duke Duke
Speaker 1: Edition as I sit down for a one on one
Speaker 1: conversation with the Bengals Director of Player Personnel, Duke Tobin
Speaker 1: to discuss free agency, the draft, and trying to build
Speaker 1: a championship team around Joe Burrow. The Bengals Booth Podcast
Speaker 1: is presented by bud Light Seltzer. Refresh the game, and
Speaker 1: here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest
Speaker 1: edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet,
Speaker 1: or computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or pod Bean. It's the greatest thing since local radio
Speaker 1: calls of dramatic sports moments. One of the things I
Speaker 1: love about my job in broadcasting Bengals and you see
Speaker 1: Bearcats games as opposed to being a neutral network announcer,
Speaker 1: is that I have a vested steak in the outcome.
Speaker 1: Like a die hard fan, I am elated when the
Speaker 1: Bengals and Bearcats win and I am sometimes heartbroken when
Speaker 1: they lose. And that's one of the reasons why whenever
Speaker 1: there's a dramatic game winning play like the long bank
Speaker 1: shot that Gonzaga freshman Jalen Sugs made on Saturday night
Speaker 1: to beat UCLA in overtime in the NCAA Tournament. I
Speaker 1: love to hear how the local radio announcers called it.
Speaker 1: To feel that raw emotion first. Courtesy of Gonzaga's IMG
Speaker 1: Radio network. Here are play by play man Tom Hudson
Speaker 1: and color commentator Adam Morrison. The former Bulldog star thing
Speaker 1: to the right side of the poor defended by kisspur
Speaker 1: Now drives, leans in the runner, comes up short, choosing
Speaker 1: the rebounds and puts an in. We're time at ninety
Speaker 1: three seconds left. Here's Suggs the other way, pull up
Speaker 1: three for the win. Yes, yes, said the championship game.
Speaker 1: Hey no from forty of the buzzers. Wow, why for
Speaker 1: national championship. Then there's the other side. Courtesy of IMG's
Speaker 1: UCLA network. Here are Josh lewin In former Bruin Tracy Murray,
Speaker 1: Jusang with eight with seven gets to the elbow, a
Speaker 1: floater line drive. Noe gets his own rebound scores off
Speaker 1: the glass. Three point three to go. Here's Suns at
Speaker 1: mid court two one a thirty two footer. Oh my, goodness,
Speaker 1: he baked it in. Gonzaga has won the game. Wow,
Speaker 1: Cry on your pillow. Unbelievable suns hit, a runner bank shot,
Speaker 1: going home. The Bruins are going home. Josh Lewin has
Speaker 1: been my friend for more than thirty years since we
Speaker 1: were young minor league baseball broadcasters in the same league,
Speaker 1: and that was a tremendous call under very difficult circumstances.
Speaker 1: But as I told him, with Mick Cron and his
Speaker 1: head coach and considering the recruits, the UCLA is sure
Speaker 1: to attract. There will be many more Final Four trips
Speaker 1: to come. As I record this podcast, the NFL Draft
Speaker 1: is less than four weeks away twenty four days to
Speaker 1: be exact, as the first round takes place on Thursday,
Speaker 1: April twenty ninth. This week, I discussed the draft with
Speaker 1: Duke Tobin, but we started our conversation with the roughly
Speaker 1: one hundred twenty one million dollars that the Bengals have
Speaker 1: spent so far on free agents from other teams at
Speaker 1: the start of free agency. Was your goal, were one
Speaker 1: of your biggest goals to improve the offensive line? Well,
Speaker 1: what we set out to do is look where the
Speaker 1: opportunities are in free agency, often the opportunities don't exactly
Speaker 1: line up with what your needs are. But we wanted
Speaker 1: to take advantage of the opportunities we thought we would
Speaker 1: have access to, and we had a number of areas
Speaker 1: on our team that we fell could could use some
Speaker 1: new guys and UH, and the way that it broke,
Speaker 1: we just had to maintain maintain flexibility on what we
Speaker 1: were looking at and where the opportunities were. And the
Speaker 1: opportunities hit on defense, which is fine by me. UH
Speaker 1: from where we were. We needed help there. We needed
Speaker 1: some new names, some new faces, some guys coming from
Speaker 1: other programs and guys with career left in them and
Speaker 1: guys with success and toughness and swagger. And so when
Speaker 1: the opportunities came on defense, we didn't turn them down,
Speaker 1: and we looked at a lot of different position groups
Speaker 1: as we went through, and to be honest, we're still
Speaker 1: looking around a little bit and we'll see if anything
Speaker 1: else comes available to us, but you know, we're pleased
Speaker 1: with the way it happened. It's hard to predict exactly
Speaker 1: how it's going to happen, but you've got to look
Speaker 1: at free agency and see where the depth is, see
Speaker 1: where the opportunity is and then adapt to that. It
Speaker 1: doesn't always line up with your number one needs. We
Speaker 1: will definitely get to those defensive guys, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: stick with the offensive line for a second. You signed
Speaker 1: Riley Reef, you re signed Quentin Spain, but those are
Speaker 1: only one year deals. How does that impact the draft? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, one year deals are fine with us. If
Speaker 1: guys come in and do well, we're we're more than
Speaker 1: willing to extend them and have him around longer than that.
Speaker 1: This year brought on a lot of one year deals
Speaker 1: around the league just because of, oh the COVID protocols
Speaker 1: and maybe how the cap was affected in a downward direction. So,
Speaker 1: you know, as we go through the draft, I think
Speaker 1: what we were able to do in free agency is
Speaker 1: fill enough needs to where we can go into the
Speaker 1: draft and feel good about taking the best player available,
Speaker 1: not passing up super talented guys to take maybe a
Speaker 1: reach at a position of needs. So with what we
Speaker 1: got accomplished in free agency, I feel like we're in
Speaker 1: a position to do that and we'll see what the
Speaker 1: draft brings us. We do the same analysis with the draft.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's sometimes a little deeper in some
Speaker 1: areas than others, and sometimes they match up with where
Speaker 1: you're picking, and sometimes they don't. And we'll maintain flexibility
Speaker 1: as the draft goes on and we'll look at all
Speaker 1: options and you know, hopefully be able to add to
Speaker 1: our team in a number of different areas. We're talking
Speaker 1: to Director of Player Personnel Duke Tobin. There are still
Speaker 1: some free agent offensive linemen out there, more are likely
Speaker 1: to be cut by their current teams. Are you still
Speaker 1: actively looking to add experienced offensive lineman? Well, we are
Speaker 1: always looking if an opportunity comes up in the ability
Speaker 1: level is what we deem as an upgrade. We're not
Speaker 1: looking to sign names, We're looking to sign ability levels
Speaker 1: and players, and so it's got to be more than
Speaker 1: just a recognized name. It has to be an up
Speaker 1: from what we currently have if we're going to spend
Speaker 1: our resources in that area. And so as it goes
Speaker 1: we'll continue to evaluate and see if there's somebody we
Speaker 1: feel as an upgrade from what we already have on
Speaker 1: a roster, and if not, we'll look to the draft
Speaker 1: and fill in some there. Joe Tuney wound up signing
Speaker 1: an eighty million dollar deal with Kansas City. That's the
Speaker 1: second most ever for a guard. What's your philosophy when
Speaker 1: it comes to paying guards, Well, you pay players, so
Speaker 1: you don't really pay positions. And I've said that a lot,
Speaker 1: and they felt that the player was worth that, and
Speaker 1: that's what they had to pay to get him. He
Speaker 1: was really pretty much the premier player in on the
Speaker 1: offensive line in free agency, and so when you're bidding
Speaker 1: on that level a guy, you normally have to go
Speaker 1: pretty high. I'm sure they would like to have them
Speaker 1: at less money than that, but that's what they had
Speaker 1: to do to get them. And when there's one premier
Speaker 1: player like he was, particularly when you look at the
Speaker 1: some of the guys that got franchise around the league,
Speaker 1: they did what they had to do to get them.
Speaker 1: That's one player and one team. You don't get the
Speaker 1: thirty one other teams can't sign the same guy, so
Speaker 1: he only gets to sign one place. So I'm happy
Speaker 1: for him. I know he's a local guy. I think
Speaker 1: he played at Alter and you know, I've got a
Speaker 1: lot of regard for him, and we'll see how it
Speaker 1: works out for him. But in terms of who we
Speaker 1: pay and how we pay, we look to try to
Speaker 1: maximize our dollars on as many players as we can,
Speaker 1: and we had enough needs to where we didn't want
Speaker 1: to go after somebody that would take it all, and
Speaker 1: so we ended up spending a lot of money on
Speaker 1: a number of different guys when we think we filled
Speaker 1: in our roster that needed filling in in a lot
Speaker 1: of spots. So I think it worked out fine. You
Speaker 1: signed five defensive free agents, including four likely starters, and
Speaker 1: the biggest deal went to Trey Hendrickson reportedly four years,
Speaker 1: sixty million bucks. What do you think you're getting in
Speaker 1: the former New Orleans Saint Um. We see Trey as
Speaker 1: a still an ascending player, even though you know he
Speaker 1: was second in the league in sacks this year. We
Speaker 1: see him as an ascending player that brings a lot
Speaker 1: to the unit, not just to his position, but to
Speaker 1: the whole defensive unit and how he plays, and really
Speaker 1: excited that we were able to convince him this was
Speaker 1: a great spot for him and to get a deal
Speaker 1: done with him. It's it's rewarding when it works out
Speaker 1: that way. And you know, we like guys that are
Speaker 1: that are emerging in their in their in their career,
Speaker 1: and we think we'll have a lot of really productive,
Speaker 1: good years with Trey. Will Jackson went to Washington for
Speaker 1: about fourteen million dollars a year. You signed two starting
Speaker 1: cornerbacks for basically the same amount. Let's start with Chittabay,
Speaker 1: a woogie. He's about three years younger than Will. Why
Speaker 1: did you pursue Chittabey, Well, again, we had an opportunity
Speaker 1: to add to that position group. He was he was
Speaker 1: interested in us, interested in the way that we do things,
Speaker 1: felt good about the opportunity here. So we made a
Speaker 1: push to get him and really excited to get him.
Speaker 1: Another young player that is on the rise in this league.
Speaker 1: He's got a lot of playing experience and brings a
Speaker 1: lot of traits that we want in our defensive scheme.
Speaker 1: And coach and a Rumo and the rest of the
Speaker 1: coaches felt like he was really a good fit for
Speaker 1: what we're going to do, and so it was it
Speaker 1: was easy to pursue him and was satisfying that he
Speaker 1: wanted to pursue us as well. Mike Hilton is also
Speaker 1: still a young player. He's about a year and a
Speaker 1: half younger than Will Jackson. He signed for four years,
Speaker 1: twenty four mill reportedly, which is a good contract for
Speaker 1: a slack corner. What's that say about him in your
Speaker 1: view of that position? Again, with Mike, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of Bengal fans know Mike because he brings a
Speaker 1: ton of energy and we need that on defense. We
Speaker 1: wanted guys that had played on high level defenses that
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a swagger to him and
Speaker 1: a little bit of a physicality to him and h
Speaker 1: and he brings those and um, you know, we're excited
Speaker 1: to see the energy that he'll bring the unit. And
Speaker 1: I know he's a confident player. And again another player
Speaker 1: that fits exactly kind of what we wanted to do
Speaker 1: on defense. And so again another guy that was interested
Speaker 1: in us, and uh, you know we were able to
Speaker 1: get him from a division rival. And that's also the
Speaker 1: case with defensive tackle Larry Oganjobi, who comes from the
Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns. What can he add upfront that you don't
Speaker 1: already have? Yeah, we think Larry's got ability to play
Speaker 1: on all three downs. We think we think he gives
Speaker 1: us maybe a little more upfield rush than what we
Speaker 1: saw from our interior guys this past year. And but
Speaker 1: you know, again another ascending young player that could have
Speaker 1: a long career here if it if it works out.
Speaker 1: I know he's on a short term deal with us,
Speaker 1: but you know, we're certainly open to if if it's
Speaker 1: a great fit and he's producing to try to get
Speaker 1: him locked up longer than that, you know, as we go.
Speaker 1: But again, a guy that we played against, so we
Speaker 1: know kind of what he brings, and we felt what
Speaker 1: he brings, you know, on twice a year, and so
Speaker 1: we were happy that again he was interested in us
Speaker 1: and that we were able to get it worked out.
Speaker 1: We're talking to Director of Player Personnel Duke Tobin. You
Speaker 1: had to let Geno Atkins go for cap room. Are
Speaker 1: you trying to bring him back at a lower number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's all to be determined with you know,
Speaker 1: we've got such a regard for him. He's one of
Speaker 1: the greatest players in franchise history and one of the
Speaker 1: top defensive tackles in the league the last decade decade.
Speaker 1: So you're you're talking about a rare guy, and um,
Speaker 1: we thought he gave what he could this past year
Speaker 1: and again, you know, with where his contract was, we
Speaker 1: had to make a move there. But who knows what
Speaker 1: the future holds. We'll see if there's something that can
Speaker 1: be worked out and if that, if it does, great
Speaker 1: and if not, I think we've got some other guys
Speaker 1: that can fill the role. All right, let's focus on
Speaker 1: the draft. I suspect you're not going to tell us
Speaker 1: who you are leaning toward with a fifth overall pick,
Speaker 1: but three names are being prominently mentioned. Can you share
Speaker 1: a few thoughts. I'm Pine Swell, Jamar Chase and Kyle Pitts.
Speaker 1: Well overall with the draft, we feel we're in a
Speaker 1: good spot and you know, we'll be careful not to
Speaker 1: get overly greedy and get out of a spot to
Speaker 1: where we maybe lose a premier player, and we feel
Speaker 1: like we'll get one of the premier players in this draft.
Speaker 1: It'll be it'll be a lot of discussion as to
Speaker 1: how we go forward and that, you know, but we
Speaker 1: feel that there are enough guys worthy of the fifth
Speaker 1: pick in the draft to get a real guy that
Speaker 1: we feel comfortable with. It also hits us at a
Speaker 1: position a need, you know, specifically, with those guys, You've
Speaker 1: got guys who are are you know, maybe they haven't
Speaker 1: played recently, which is somewhat of a concern, but when
Speaker 1: they did play, they played outstanding and they're at premier
Speaker 1: positions and their guys who were dominant at those positions
Speaker 1: at high level football programs. How good is the offensive
Speaker 1: line depth in this draft? I think it's pretty good
Speaker 1: if you take the right guys. You know, there's a
Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys out there that have different
Speaker 1: traits and uh, and we'll take guys that have the
Speaker 1: traits that we want in our group. Um, But I
Speaker 1: do think it's a deep draft. There'll be guys available
Speaker 1: in the second round, third round that we have starter
Speaker 1: grades on and maybe they'll last a little longer than
Speaker 1: that too. But it's a position that we're going to
Speaker 1: focus on. We'll evaluate it at every pick we make
Speaker 1: and to see if the best guy available for us
Speaker 1: is an offensive lineman. But it's a position group that
Speaker 1: we've been focused on. We think having healthy guys there
Speaker 1: and then the addition of Riley Reef, we think we're
Speaker 1: in a better spot than we were and they'll still
Speaker 1: be additions to be made to be named later. How
Speaker 1: deep is the wide receiver depth than this draft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably not the depth that last year's had, but that
Speaker 1: was a rare draft, and but there are good receivers. Again,
Speaker 1: with the receiver group, there's a lot of different style guys,
Speaker 1: even more so than the offensive line group, where there's
Speaker 1: a lot of different style guys. At receiver, you got
Speaker 1: guys that play inside, guys that play outside. You got
Speaker 1: guys who have special teams value. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: You got to pick exactly what you're looking for, you know. Obviously,
Speaker 1: when you're looking at the top of the draft, you
Speaker 1: want the guy that can do everything. But then as
Speaker 1: the draft goes on, that's where the depth really comes in.
Speaker 1: You want an inside slot guy, you want to speak
Speaker 1: guy on the outside. You want a size guy that
Speaker 1: has a maybe a catch radius and a matchup problem,
Speaker 1: or do you want a returner you know is so
Speaker 1: those are those are things that we'll talk about as
Speaker 1: the draft goes on. But I don't have a problem
Speaker 1: with really the depth of any position group in this draft.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there are fewer guys because a
Speaker 1: lot of guys have taken the opportunity to go back
Speaker 1: to school. But the ones that are in the draft
Speaker 1: we feel are quality players. How significant is the return
Speaker 1: of Frank Pollock, his offensive line coach, got a ton
Speaker 1: of respect for Frank working with him in the past. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I know I'll drive those guys. I know
Speaker 1: he'll he'll command respect out of him and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm confident that Frank will get the group going. Well,
Speaker 1: you recently said the following about Joe Burrow quote, I
Speaker 1: think we've got one of the premier young quarterback in
Speaker 1: the game. How is your team building approach affected by
Speaker 1: having that guy in his rookie contract. Well, you always
Speaker 1: want to build around your quarterback, and maybe I misspoke
Speaker 1: when I said I think, I know we've got one
Speaker 1: of the premier quarter young quarterbacks in this in this league,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's a guy that you want to
Speaker 1: be your best for and you want to do everything
Speaker 1: you can to put it together around him. He's just
Speaker 1: that type of guy, and that's what we're doing. We're
Speaker 1: trying to find the best pieces to maximize his talent.
Speaker 1: And that's really not a unique philosophy around this league.
Speaker 1: When you have a quarterback, you want to emphasize it,
Speaker 1: and we're going to do everything we can to emphasize
Speaker 1: his talents. Do you engage him in the process, whether
Speaker 1: it's free agency or the draft. Well, I talked to
Speaker 1: a lot of people throughout the process, and he's an
Speaker 1: engaging guy, so I like to engage with engaging guys.
Speaker 1: We'll just leave it at that. Should I try again
Speaker 1: on pinas Sewell, Jamar Chase, and Kyle Pitts and see
Speaker 1: if you'd like to comment on them again? All three
Speaker 1: high level prospects, all three the worthy of being at
Speaker 1: the top of the draft, and guys who we really
Speaker 1: feel like could fit us and could make us a
Speaker 1: better team. Final question for Duke tob and the Bengals
Speaker 1: director of player personnel when it comes to the possibility
Speaker 1: of trading down, is there a number that you would
Speaker 1: not be comfortable going lower than? So, for example, I'll
Speaker 1: go as low as ten, but I'm not going to
Speaker 1: go as low as fifteen. Yeah. Maybe, but I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say, you know, it's it's not something you
Speaker 1: would put out. We'll look at any opportunities to come
Speaker 1: our way, and part of moving down is the compensation involved,
Speaker 1: and so we're not above looking at a lot of
Speaker 1: different options. I can't tell you that we plan on
Speaker 1: coming out of the first round of this draft with
Speaker 1: a premier player, and I don't see us putting ourselves
Speaker 1: in position to where we're dropping down a level to
Speaker 1: maybe get a maybe down the road. So we feel
Speaker 1: good about our position where we are and if we move,
Speaker 1: it's going to take something to get us to move,
Speaker 1: and we'll see if anything breaks there. It's nice to
Speaker 1: be back in your office. It's been a while. I
Speaker 1: appreciate the time. Thanks to you. That's going to do
Speaker 1: it for this episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought
Speaker 1: to you by bud Light Seltzer Refresh the game. I'll
Speaker 1: be back with a new addition on Thursday and you
Speaker 1: will definitely want to check it out. If you haven't
Speaker 1: done so already, please subscribe and if you have a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment that helps
Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde and
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast