Speaker 1: From Mahart that we're Innovation, Money and Power Collie in
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, NBN.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 3: I'm Caroline hide a Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York,
Speaker 3: and I'm Ed Ludlow out here in San Francisco.
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.
Speaker 3: Ed will break down GM's decision to join Tesla's charging network.
Speaker 5: This is the ev makerheads for a record setting rally.
Speaker 6: Plus, we discuss all things AI, from its use cases
Speaker 6: in the field of law to investing in the space
Speaker 6: with venture capitalist Wesley.
Speaker 3: Chat And for today's Bloomberg Big Take, we'll discuss how
Speaker 3: artificial intelligence is taking racial and gender stereotypes to new extremes.
Speaker 5: But first let's check in on these markets.
Speaker 3: Ed, we're kind of muted ahead of the Federal Reserve
Speaker 3: next week. This is a macro perspective on how much
Speaker 3: the Federal Reserve will pause, will they then hike in July.
Speaker 3: But at the moment, we've have seen the downward trajectory
Speaker 3: for the dollar. On the Weekles's in the s and
Speaker 3: P five hundred, managing to get into that ballmarket territory
Speaker 3: twenty percent off of it's October lows. We're currently clinging
Speaker 3: to gains only up two and a half. Now's that
Speaker 3: one hundred up higher, up to tens percent, some big
Speaker 3: tech names. When you're driving us higher, I know you'll
Speaker 3: dig into that. Blubo Dollar Index actually just basically treading
Speaker 3: water on the day, but actually has been selling off
Speaker 3: over the course of the week as many start to
Speaker 3: buy in on the fact that maybe the FED can.
Speaker 5: Pause this hiking cycle.
Speaker 3: Now's some a little look at what's happening in terms
Speaker 3: of risk.
Speaker 5: As said of.
Speaker 3: Choice, we're currently seeing bitcoin having a pretty tortuous few
Speaker 3: days five day run and we're off by two point
Speaker 3: nine percent.
Speaker 5: We're still clinging to that twenty six thousand there and thereabouts,
Speaker 5: But all.
Speaker 3: Of this comes on the back of some significant regulatory headwinds.
Speaker 3: Look at that downward trajectory when we got the news
Speaker 3: on binance and of course some coinbas when it comes
Speaker 3: to what the SEC is doing. So notable that at
Speaker 3: the moment we're not seeing that move into textocs being
Speaker 3: reciprocated by moving in to bitcoin ed.
Speaker 6: One big influence on this market is Tesla up five percent.
Speaker 6: It's trading in its highest level since early October. End
Speaker 6: of September, the news General Motors is adopting Tesla's North
Speaker 6: America charging standard. It is also having upside impact for GM,
Speaker 6: up two percent.
Speaker 4: But look at the downside.
Speaker 6: Movers Evego charge Point principally CCS standard offerings for charging
Speaker 6: networks really taking a hit. The Tesla name has momentum.
Speaker 6: Just quickly look at this terminal chart. We're up for
Speaker 6: eleventh straight session. That matches the streak of games we
Speaker 6: saw at the beginning of twenty twenty one, eleven days
Speaker 6: that ended in early twenty twenty one. We don't often
Speaker 6: get technical on this show, and I'm not showing it
Speaker 6: in this chart, but I think about relative strength index.
Speaker 6: This is a stock that's at an eighty six level,
Speaker 6: very heavily and overbought territory. It is trading above its
Speaker 6: two hundred, one hundred and fifty day moving average. I
Speaker 6: raised that because it has momentum. But how long does
Speaker 6: this last? Really impressive outperformance, but what about the details here?
Speaker 6: We heard from GMCO Mary Barra on a Twitter spaces
Speaker 6: with Elon Musk.
Speaker 7: As we looked at this and realized we could really
Speaker 7: address one of the biggest issues that customers are telling
Speaker 7: us is, Hey, you know, I like evs, but if
Speaker 7: it's going to be my only vehicle, I need to
Speaker 7: know that there's a robust charging infrastructure. So I think
Speaker 7: this gives us a huge opportunity to do something that's
Speaker 7: better for customers and to drive it to be the standard.
Speaker 6: Is this just the next domino to fall? Is this
Speaker 6: something much bigger? Let's get the details with Bloomberg's Detroit
Speaker 6: Bura G David Welch. David tell us how GM's going
Speaker 6: to pull this off.
Speaker 2: Well, they're basically going to equip their cars starting in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five with an import that can take Teslass chargers.
Speaker 2: Before then they'll have the customers, the owners of those vehicles.
Speaker 2: I have to use some kind of adapter so that
Speaker 2: they can use Testla's vehicles. But basically it gives these
Speaker 2: gives GM electric vehicle owners and forward for that matter,
Speaker 2: because they announce this deal is a similar deal previously
Speaker 2: gives them access to twelve thousand Tesla fast chargers and
Speaker 2: some more of their regular chargers. So it gives these
Speaker 2: people a lot of options with probably minimal impact on
Speaker 2: their lives and not a lot of investment either.
Speaker 5: Honest, David saying, another win for Tesla. How does this
Speaker 5: actually help the revenue of Tesla? How does this well
Speaker 5: help the business model of Tesla.
Speaker 2: So, Tesla, they still are going to make all of
Speaker 2: their money or most of their money selling cars, but
Speaker 2: they do have this business of charging where they do
Speaker 2: make some revenue. It's not huge money. Estimates are that
Speaker 2: Tesla can make it anywhere from one and a half
Speaker 2: billion to three billion by twenty thirty and even more
Speaker 2: after that with all of these customers of other companies
Speaker 2: cars that will use their charging network. And if you
Speaker 2: think about it, Tesla has by far right now the
Speaker 2: most reliable EV charging network and it's also the most
Speaker 2: mature compared to this patchwork quilt of other EV companies,
Speaker 2: ev Go, charge Point, others they either provide hardware services,
Speaker 2: and JD Power says Tesla is the most reliable. So
Speaker 2: I think more and more customers of other people's vehicles
Speaker 2: will start using Tesla chargers because the apps as they're available,
Speaker 2: they're actually available when the people get there, the charger
Speaker 2: actually works. It's a big problem for EV drivers. So
Speaker 2: with a better network, they'll went out and they will
Speaker 2: make revenue off of their rivals customers in the same
Speaker 2: way they've made revenue and profits off of regulatory credits
Speaker 2: for years. All this kind of it may not be
Speaker 2: huge money, but it's still helping Tesla at sort of
Speaker 2: an opportunity cost to the other car companies who don't
Speaker 2: have their own networks.
Speaker 6: David on that point about that Tesla's networks reach and maturity,
Speaker 6: We actually have this chart from Bloomberg and you Energy
Speaker 6: Finance which shows the Tesla fast charger network relative to ccs,
Speaker 6: and the chart tells the story, right, It is just
Speaker 6: so much bigger here in the United States. But the
Speaker 6: reason I bring up as well is the title of
Speaker 6: the Bloomberg NIF research. GM cruels back to Twitter and
Speaker 6: Tesla to save it's ev ambitions. You know GM better
Speaker 6: than anyone on the planet pretty much. What did you
Speaker 6: make of Mary barrr breaking her Twitter silence to make
Speaker 6: this announcement?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 2: Look, first off, when Ford made the announcement, I went
Speaker 2: to GM and said are you following next? And you
Speaker 2: know they sort of hemmed in had I think they
Speaker 2: realized once Ford did that, they had to go in.
Speaker 2: And you know, Tesla and GM I've sort of traded
Speaker 2: barbs over the years, subtly at times, not so subtly
Speaker 2: at others. So I do think they didn't love having
Speaker 2: to do this. But ultimately Mary Barr is an extremely
Speaker 2: pragmatic CEO, and if this will help her sell electric vehicles,
Speaker 2: if this will help her customers stay happy, I think
Speaker 2: she knows she has to do it, and I think,
Speaker 2: you know, going on Twitter to do it is probably
Speaker 2: not their favorite way of putting news out, but it
Speaker 2: would also also very very effective sitting on the stage,
Speaker 2: all right. Rather it was done by Zoomer actually, I think,
Speaker 2: but speaking with Elon Musk about this is going to
Speaker 2: give them a lot of publicity for the fact that
Speaker 2: they're changing their charging network.
Speaker 6: You know, Caroline, this is clearly giving Tesla Antiema boost.
Speaker 6: But again, let's go back to those movies to the
Speaker 6: downside and some of the rivals out there in the network.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Devid to that point, you mentioned EVgo, but also Pilot,
Speaker 3: there was a joint venture already announced by GM as
Speaker 3: you referenced. Who does this hurt perhaps more in the
Speaker 3: startup space and the areas that you know, I think
Speaker 3: of here in New York, the announcements that are being
Speaker 3: made of all the EV charging that's going to be
Speaker 3: put in the capacity, and it was helping players other
Speaker 3: than Tesla, who are the other battery operators, I mean
Speaker 3: the charging operators out there who perhaps stand to forfeit here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, this is going to be tough on them,
Speaker 2: at least in the near term, I think medium long
Speaker 2: term they can adapt if Tussel's chargers are more reliable
Speaker 2: and I on a Cadillac Lyric are a four one
Speaker 2: fifty lightning electric vehicle, and I can use it six
Speaker 2: months from now because I get an adapter. Why wouldn't
Speaker 2: I do that if I know it's a better network.
Speaker 2: So they're going to lose potential revenue on this thing,
Speaker 2: and that's what the market's looking at. I think it's
Speaker 2: going to be tough on all of these companies, and
Speaker 2: they're already in a not great financial position, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of speaking broadly as a charging industry, and the
Speaker 2: stocks are not doing that great either, So it's not
Speaker 2: like they have this amazing ability to raise capital because
Speaker 2: they're not loved as investments.
Speaker 3: David Welch, as you say, GM aficionado, EV aficionado charger Officionado,
Speaker 3: We thank you so much for Detroit.
Speaker 6: A New York lawyer told a judge he never meant
Speaker 6: to fool anybody when he filed a court brief full
Speaker 6: of phony legal precedents invented by chat GPT. The lawyer
Speaker 6: who faces punishment to the brief are the US district
Speaker 6: judge for leniency, claiming he had no idea the free
Speaker 6: artificial intelligence school could create fake case citations and court opinions.
Speaker 6: Generative AI tools promise to disrupt industries, but the technology
Speaker 6: also has many risks associated with it, so staying in
Speaker 6: the field of AI and the law. Even Up is
Speaker 6: a generative AI startup focused on personal injury cases with
Speaker 6: trained models using hundreds of thousands of pages of medical
Speaker 6: records cases compiled into possibly the largest ever repository of
Speaker 6: case data. The company just announced its series being round
Speaker 6: led by Best Adventure Partners and joining us now is
Speaker 6: Ramy Kareba bar even Up CEO and Samir de Lakia,
Speaker 6: partner with Best Some Adventures.
Speaker 4: And Sami, I'm going to start with you.
Speaker 6: Sure a month ago you came on this program and
Speaker 6: told Caroline and I, I have a billion dollars to
Speaker 6: invest in artificial intelligence yep, And I said, well, how
Speaker 6: are you going to do it? And you didn't fully
Speaker 6: answer the question. This goes some way to answering the question.
Speaker 9: In the there has been an outpouring of interest, of course,
Speaker 9: by entrepreneurs around the world inbound coming in saying, hey,
Speaker 9: this is exactly these are the folks to come and
Speaker 9: help us launch our ideas, and this is what we
Speaker 9: knew would happen. Whenever you have a paradigm shift as
Speaker 9: profound as large language models and generative AI, the creative
Speaker 9: juices of all the entrepreneurs around the world get going
Speaker 9: and they try to solve novel problems in a novel way.
Speaker 4: And that's what we've seen and even.
Speaker 9: Up as one of the very first examples we've seen
Speaker 9: coming out of this allocation of that billion.
Speaker 3: Dollars, Robbie, that creative juices that got flowing. We're actually
Speaker 3: started in twenty twenty, and I'm interested how much has
Speaker 3: generative AI changed the game for you?
Speaker 5: How much?
Speaker 3: And already you been iterating on making legal work in
Speaker 3: particular that much easier, and is sort of the momentum
Speaker 3: around chatchipt just helping with a cell cycle.
Speaker 1: For sure, we've been experimenting with generative models since the
Speaker 1: founding of the company, and we also use discriminative models
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 8: And the way you can think about.
Speaker 1: What we do is we turn raw case files, typically
Speaker 1: medical reports and police reports, into AI generated legal documents
Speaker 1: for injury attorneys. These legal documents value what these personal
Speaker 1: injury cases are worth, enabling injury attorneys not only to
Speaker 1: save time in legal drafting, but also maximize the value
Speaker 1: of their claims and helping the many millions of Americans
Speaker 1: they get injured every year in the US.
Speaker 6: Romie, what is your response to the story that we
Speaker 6: outlined at the beginning of this segment, a lawyer who
Speaker 6: now has to defend himself because he relied on fake
Speaker 6: legal precedence that chat GPT gave him. What is the
Speaker 6: risk for your company in that context?
Speaker 1: I think it really comes down to how you're using
Speaker 1: generative models. The way our approach to generative AI is
Speaker 1: very different than a lot of other companies were strictly
Speaker 1: focused on one type of legal letter called the demand letter,
Speaker 1: and this is where the way we use generative models
Speaker 1: is in a.
Speaker 8: Pretty confined way.
Speaker 1: We feuded a handful of inputs and we're asking it
Speaker 1: to summarize it in pros.
Speaker 8: Since we're not.
Speaker 1: Scaring the web or asking for or a lot of
Speaker 1: different types of use cases for general models, the risk
Speaker 1: of hallucinations is significantly less. And separately, our demands are
Speaker 1: acuated by a team of legal professionals. We've done thousands
Speaker 1: of these cases, and our clients haven't seen those types
Speaker 1: of results of hallucinations impacting their business.
Speaker 3: Submitted to that end, you know how, was even not
Speaker 3: attractive because it is such a specific application of generative
Speaker 3: AI and AI in general. Are you looking for those
Speaker 3: specific areas, particularly in healthcare, particularly in legal work, or
Speaker 3: are you seeing more broad applications that excite you to.
Speaker 9: Certainly all the above, although I would say even up
Speaker 9: is a perfect company for a Bessemer venture partners to
Speaker 9: invest in. Bestmer has for the last ten or fifteen
Speaker 9: years been I would argue, the leading venture capital firm
Speaker 9: investing in vertical SaaS companies. So whether it's Toast in
Speaker 9: the restaurant industry, Service Titan for plumbers and electricians, pro
Speaker 9: Core and construction Shopify for e commerce, been focused on
Speaker 9: investing in companies that solve the particular problem set of
Speaker 9: problems for a vertical industry. And of course the legal
Speaker 9: industry is the perfect vertical industry for this disruption in
Speaker 9: large language models. All they do every day as lawyers
Speaker 9: is deal in pros in language. And so this is
Speaker 9: at the absolute intersection sweet spot of what Bessemer likes
Speaker 9: to invest in Smith.
Speaker 6: What was doing this deal? Like what does the cap
Speaker 6: table look like at the moment as well? Like, yes,
Speaker 6: you're on this, so it's Spain. So are many others. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you know who's convincing? Who you convincing? Rammy, Remy convincing you.
Speaker 6: It is a very competitive environment. Ronny is an incredible entrepreneur.
Speaker 9: There were he could tell you how many venture capital
Speaker 9: firms he had interest in in it. We were privileged
Speaker 9: that he chose to work with us.
Speaker 4: Very polite answer, and and we have many friends.
Speaker 9: The folks of being capital ventures are friends of ours from.
Speaker 4: A decade long. So you're seeing more and more of that.
Speaker 9: I think partnering go on on, but in spirit of serving,
Speaker 9: and I think you'll always hear that from from Investmer.
Speaker 9: We're in service of our entrepreneurs and in service of
Speaker 9: those companies.
Speaker 6: So Romie, I'll give you the opportunity to give your
Speaker 6: perspective on that.
Speaker 4: I would note, you know, do not pay.
Speaker 6: Josh Brown has been on the show with Carolina and
Speaker 6: I they do something quite similar as well. So how
Speaker 6: did you stand out to all these bench catalysts that
Speaker 6: were fighting over you?
Speaker 8: For sure?
Speaker 1: And our approach was just to do one type of
Speaker 1: document and more affordably, more accurately and faster than a
Speaker 1: human can on their own. And knock on wood, we've
Speaker 1: had some pretty good traction. It speaks volumes, just at
Speaker 1: the value proposition, being able to deliver it to injury
Speaker 1: attorneys and again, ultimately their clients were injured us. What
Speaker 1: is most important is finding a partner that is online
Speaker 1: in that mission, and I think Samor sold them a
Speaker 1: little bit short there. But I think I think Investmor's
Speaker 1: lead in Vertical SaaS, I think Samir had more general
Speaker 1: to our investments in any other investor that we've spoken to.
Speaker 1: Specifically with Vertical SaaS, it admitted an easy decision for
Speaker 1: us to choose s Bestimer.
Speaker 3: Robbie, you just mentioned there quicker than a human can.
Speaker 3: Is this going to reduce jobs?
Speaker 8: We have not seen that.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, if you think about personal injury, you're talking about
Speaker 1: some of the most vonderable times in individuals' lives. You're
Speaker 1: living a normal life, then all of a sudden, something
Speaker 1: really had happened to you. I can't imagine a human
Speaker 1: not being there to help help these folks share through
Speaker 1: the personal injury claims process. From what we've seen from
Speaker 1: our clients, they're spending last time on document review and
Speaker 1: document drafting, and they're spending more times with our clients.
Speaker 1: We're taking on more clients that they've ever had before.
Speaker 3: Ami Caravaba, thank you very much. Indeed, even up CEO Sama,
Speaker 3: great to have some time with you as well. Sammy,
Speaker 3: are lacking a partner at best in the venture, but partners,
Speaker 3: that's so much for joining us. That was a really
Speaker 3: interesting roundtable about all things generative applications. Meanwhile, coming up,
Speaker 3: we're on the fallout actually from the Securities and Exchange
Speaker 3: Commissions lawsuit against Finance. What the crypto exchange platform is
Speaker 3: telling its customers.
Speaker 5: From New York. From San Francisco, Disi Bloomberg.
Speaker 4: It is time for talking tech.
Speaker 6: First up, Taiwan semiconductor Manufacturing, seeing a dip in revenue
Speaker 6: for a third straight month. Sales at the world's largest
Speaker 6: supplier have made to order. Chip slid five percent, which
Speaker 6: indicates that the sector's slump has yet to bottom. TSMC
Speaker 6: executive has signaled a gradual recovery in the second half
Speaker 6: of the year and a resumption of growth in twenty
Speaker 6: twenty four. And Binance US is telling its customers to
Speaker 6: take action in order to protect their assets following the
Speaker 6: SEC's lawsuit. This comes as its banking partners seek to
Speaker 6: pause US dollar channels for deposits and withdrawals as early
Speaker 6: as June thirteenth. In an email to customers which was
Speaker 6: also posted on Twitter, the company says, we are taking
Speaker 6: these proactive steps as we transition to a crypto only exchange.
Speaker 6: We will continue to vigorously defend ourselves, our customers, and
Speaker 6: industry against the meritless attacks of the SEC.
Speaker 4: End quote plus.
Speaker 6: Crypto firms are reshaping the landscape with its come to
Speaker 6: a banking system in the US. Firms are turning to
Speaker 6: smaller regional lenders to open accounts. Swiss and Asian banks
Speaker 6: were also playing a bigger role as to where assets
Speaker 6: are placed. The changes come amid increased scrutiny from regulators
Speaker 6: against that industry.
Speaker 3: Caroline, in fact, cryptoregulation and all that was being discussed
Speaker 3: in a venture capital conversation I had yesterday, Ed, I
Speaker 3: got a chance to sit down with Rebeca Cayden of
Speaker 3: Union Square Ventures based right here in New York. Dina
Speaker 3: Shaker of Lux Capital as well, had flown in from
Speaker 3: the West Coast where you are for the Bloomberg invest conference,
Speaker 3: and actually when it turned to AI, they expressed some
Speaker 3: optimism there the role in the shift that we're seeing
Speaker 3: in fintech and healthcare.
Speaker 10: Just ticul listen, I'm an optimist. I think I'm partly
Speaker 10: an optimist by trade and overall, but particularly here. I
Speaker 10: think the opportunities set to unmark and the efficiencies to create,
Speaker 10: and the skills and abilities that we can't think of
Speaker 10: yet are going to outweigh the risks which are there
Speaker 10: and are are relevant, but are going to be manageable.
Speaker 3: Okay, I like that they're manageable. Dan, Do you have
Speaker 3: that same optimism that ultimately all the ringing of hands,
Speaker 3: worries about job implications bias will ultimately be outweighed by
Speaker 3: the positives and productivity and how it's going to help
Speaker 3: your particular area of expertise, like.
Speaker 5: Healthcare, absolutely.
Speaker 11: I mean, we've been investing in AI for years, so
Speaker 11: if certainly there is a lot that's new now, it
Speaker 11: does feel like a paradigm shift. But we were early
Speaker 11: investors in Hugging Face and Runway. In the healthcare space,
Speaker 11: we actually sit on a board together of a company
Speaker 11: called a Life Health, which is using AI to transform
Speaker 11: fertility care.
Speaker 7: There is still so much.
Speaker 11: More and we're incredibly excited about the potential, of course,
Speaker 11: notwithstanding the regulatory environment that we're in right now and
Speaker 11: making sure that everything is done safely and also without bias.
Speaker 5: Go to regulation in a moment.
Speaker 3: But to the point of where AI is really disrupting?
Speaker 5: Are you where's your rain space app?
Speaker 3: Is it more inbound people wanting money, people cooling themselves,
Speaker 3: ultificial intelligence companies you try to.
Speaker 5: Sort wheat from chaff?
Speaker 3: Or is it how do I ensure the port photio
Speaker 3: Companies I have that aren't truly built on AI are
Speaker 3: ready for that disruption?
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's a little of both.
Speaker 11: Obviously, as a consumer I love using it for bedtime
Speaker 11: stories for my kids and you know, recipes and so on.
Speaker 11: But as an investor, we're looking at what the really
Speaker 11: big platform shifts are going to be and I think
Speaker 11: any tech company right now needs to take a really
Speaker 11: close and deep look at how they're using AI to
Speaker 11: make themselves more efficient, particularly in well, frankly, in every field.
Speaker 11: But I would say when it comes to healthcare, there's
Speaker 11: so much opportunity, so much latency, so much bureaucracy.
Speaker 5: But it's a very different world when you're still.
Speaker 11: Talking about fax machines in the same sentence.
Speaker 3: As chat gpt Well said, And what about the fintech space, Rebecca,
Speaker 3: and in this is an area that you'll particularly got
Speaker 3: some expertise in as well.
Speaker 5: Across the board as well as healthcare.
Speaker 3: Some have said maybe fintech isn't the first era of
Speaker 3: adoption for AI.
Speaker 5: What would you make of that?
Speaker 10: I think that the enco across industries and healthcare and
Speaker 10: fintech and education have a big opportunity here, less because
Speaker 10: of their industry specific nature that there's some of that,
Speaker 10: and more than the idea that where there's rote tasks
Speaker 10: or efficiencies to be created by people, it can be
Speaker 10: a very powerful tool to create that. And that's cost savings,
Speaker 10: that's time savings, that's adding value into the stacks that's
Speaker 10: already there, and you know, you asked about kind of
Speaker 10: existing companies versus new entrants. I think one of the
Speaker 10: unique things about this technology shift that's somewhat different than
Speaker 10: if you think about mobile is that the incumbents not
Speaker 10: only have distribution advantage, but they have data advantage that's very,
Speaker 10: very relevant, and that the technology is easier to use,
Speaker 10: So integrating it into existing platforms is a lot easier
Speaker 10: than in prior technology shifts, so they can do it faster,
Speaker 10: get up to speed, and use multiple advantages. And I
Speaker 10: think you're going to see that now and you know,
Speaker 10: for a while across industries that give these big players,
Speaker 10: you know, a real opportunity really if they can jump
Speaker 10: on it.
Speaker 5: It was such a great conversation. You can go online
Speaker 5: to see more of it.
Speaker 3: Rebecca Cayden of Union Square Ventures, Tina Shakir of Lux Capital.
Speaker 6: Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Med Ludlow in San Francisco.
Speaker 5: And I'm Caroline Hyde in New York.
Speaker 3: Let's check in on these markets because nasdak treading some
Speaker 3: water today. We're up to eleven points, but remember it
Speaker 3: had hit the higher since April twenty twenty two at
Speaker 3: one point, so the SMP get into a ballmarket technical
Speaker 3: ball market, twenty percent off.
Speaker 5: Of its lows.
Speaker 3: We're still worried, tentative about what happens with the Federal
Speaker 3: Reserve next week here in the United States, So at
Speaker 3: the moment, maybe just a little bit of caution as
Speaker 3: we end up the trading week basically flat on the
Speaker 3: week for the NASDA two year yield, though up seven
Speaker 3: basis points as we think about where in which the
Speaker 3: Federal Reserve has to go, how it has to tackle
Speaker 3: interest rates, whether or not that's really priced in into
Speaker 3: the front end of the curve.
Speaker 5: So two year yield's just pushing up higher.
Speaker 3: Bitcoin currently down by sixteen percent torrid week, int of
Speaker 3: course the regulatory overhang for crypto in general, but actually
Speaker 3: managed to be relatively resolute in the face of that.
Speaker 3: Twenty six thousands is where we're currently trade. Moving on,
Speaker 3: and let's go into some individual movers, because there are some.
Speaker 5: Big moves going on.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at its Heather, of course, up almost four
Speaker 3: percent on the day as they sign that deal with
Speaker 3: gm as look really to be leveraging the power of
Speaker 3: their charging that they have at the United States at
Speaker 3: the moment. But Adobe is on the higher side, up
Speaker 3: more than four percent, going overweight in some analysts or
Speaker 3: really thinking that this is a company to be leveraging,
Speaker 3: whereas we look at generative AIAI applications.
Speaker 5: Interesting that Peloton's at more than four percent. Who knows why.
Speaker 3: Big volume at one point up nineteen percent on the
Speaker 3: day at the moment, Bluemode not reporting any real reason
Speaker 3: and catalysts into the Surgeon volume and actually the Surgeon shares.
Speaker 3: But we're coming down to about four percent, but one
Speaker 3: standard deviation move compared to their twenty day moving average.
Speaker 3: Blue Apron as well. Look, it's a penny stock. Basically,
Speaker 3: we're seeing it only what fifty million dollars worth in
Speaker 3: market cap.
Speaker 5: It used to be worth one hundred million, in.
Speaker 3: Excess of perhaps sixty percent on the day. This is
Speaker 3: a pay off some debts away from one to be
Speaker 3: watching as well. But we want to be turning back
Speaker 3: from public markets to private markets at the moment. Ed
Speaker 3: and a business planning platform Pigment just reported in an
Speaker 3: eighty eight million dollars Series C funding round led by
Speaker 3: Iconic Growth as well as Felix Capital coming in on
Speaker 3: the deal as well. Let's bring in the co CEO
Speaker 3: co founder Eleanor Crespo now who's joining.
Speaker 5: Us from France. But the focus that is funding around
Speaker 5: is look.
Speaker 3: Eleanor, you're going to be beefing up the business, going
Speaker 3: to be pushing more globally here in the United States
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 5: What services do you offer?
Speaker 8: Thank you very much for having me so.
Speaker 12: First of all, just to reset this scene, to explain
Speaker 12: for everybody who we are. Pigment is a business planning
Speaker 12: platform that Eulu's business leader no materally signe finance if
Speaker 12: you are a CEO, the CRO or the HRVP of
Speaker 12: your company, to take better, faster and smarter decisions. The
Speaker 12: other point of Pigment is to quickly adapt to change.
Speaker 12: What we relate with my con friend de romaan Nicoli
Speaker 12: is that basically, as of today, business leaders usually have
Speaker 12: to take very strategic this decisions based on inaccurate, incomplete
Speaker 12: or sided data. What we try to offer with Pigment
Speaker 12: or you see, is to help these business leaders not
Speaker 12: only take the most strategic decisions but also be able
Speaker 12: to adapt quickly to the.
Speaker 8: Current macroeconomic environment.
Speaker 12: So to give you a concrete example of what we
Speaker 12: do of today, as you can see or you see,
Speaker 12: the macroeconomic environment is what it is. You have inflation
Speaker 12: raising a different paces in different countries, and so any
Speaker 12: business leader needs to be able to answer in the
Speaker 12: very first fashion, for instance, if inflation raises even more
Speaker 12: in North America, how that will impact my hiring, how
Speaker 12: that will impact my growth margin.
Speaker 8: How that will affect my self process?
Speaker 12: And ultimately Stigment is here to offer you to help
Speaker 12: you answer better these questions.
Speaker 3: What's so fascinating is the problemly you're solving, but also
Speaker 3: your own background, the fact that you were a vcy
Speaker 3: yourself before an index, the fact that you were working
Speaker 3: at Google for a long time. In terms of strategy,
Speaker 3: what was the funding environment like for you? How easy
Speaker 3: or hard was it to sell real vision and the
Speaker 3: need for capital take a macroeconomic head wind moment, they
Speaker 3: were just painting for us.
Speaker 12: Yeah, So actually we were not raising these rounds and
Speaker 12: what happened was very different. So we still had the
Speaker 12: money from the past two runs, pretty much everything in
Speaker 12: the bank. So here actually we got a lot of
Speaker 12: interest and that came from a couple of reasons. First
Speaker 12: one being that we are must have platform in the
Speaker 12: current economic environment.
Speaker 8: Everybody, every customer.
Speaker 12: Across all industries need to plan on the two like hours.
Speaker 12: That was the first thing, and the second thing was
Speaker 12: I think the type of customers we managed to sign
Speaker 12: across all industries. So we managed to actually get on
Speaker 12: board and serve the most incredible customers in the likes
Speaker 12: of Figma, of Mirror, of air Table, Mozilla, Kelvin, Klein
Speaker 12: arp et cetera. And really what happened with them is
Speaker 12: that not only they showed to investors that were they
Speaker 12: were using us on.
Speaker 8: A daily basis, but that also they loved us.
Speaker 12: And what happened really with this round is that the
Speaker 12: stores actually got some word of mass from all of
Speaker 12: these customers that you know, this product was a total
Speaker 12: revolution in the way they plan. And we actually got
Speaker 12: this from preempted biobsisis leading firms that you mentioned iconically
Speaker 12: dig the round alongside Felix, Capital IVPN, Meritech participating. And
Speaker 12: really the reason was I think the attraction that we
Speaker 12: got not only that, but we also managed to go
Speaker 12: very deep in the organization. We actually grew by ten
Speaker 12: x or customer based last.
Speaker 4: Year and that elent know. Eleanor.
Speaker 6: I want to jump in and just ask you because
Speaker 6: I want to understand some of how you manage that.
Speaker 6: First of all, you have runway right, so you raised
Speaker 6: eighty eight million dollars in this series C two hundred
Speaker 6: and fifty million today, where did this round value your company?
Speaker 12: So, actually, we are not discussing valuation for a very
Speaker 12: good reason is that, first, it's.
Speaker 8: Not a focus at all. What we are very proud
Speaker 8: of at.
Speaker 12: Pigment is our customer base or partners and the fact
Speaker 12: that we had the tremend destruction in the past year.
Speaker 12: You know, we grew our revenue by seven x last
Speaker 12: year and in north summer tenx in you know, the
Speaker 12: number of users that are using Pigments. Really, I think
Speaker 12: the valuation is not a metrix that we want to
Speaker 12: follow because we think it's not really the real value.
Speaker 12: But I can tell you it was a significant upront,
Speaker 12: and I think you know, for us, it's more the
Speaker 12: security cushion and the freedom to invest even more in
Speaker 12: our product and the innovation than anything else.
Speaker 6: So it's in response to growth, right, tenx, growth ten
Speaker 6: x in the user base last year. How do you
Speaker 6: deploy the capital to respond to that? You having to
Speaker 6: manage headcount, infrastructure costs.
Speaker 12: Yes, So actually I think we are going to do
Speaker 12: two major investments this year, so obvious see one of them,
Speaker 12: which is a continued investment, and the most important one
Speaker 12: is in the product. So we are the most innovative
Speaker 12: platform out there by far, and we want to remain
Speaker 12: the most innovative platform. So there are a lot of
Speaker 12: very exciting things coming in the roadmap, AI being one
Speaker 12: of them. Of course, I'm very happy to tell you
Speaker 12: more about that. The second being investment is our customer
Speaker 12: support globally, because obviously we are serving the largest company
Speaker 12: in the world in North America, in in media and
Speaker 12: everywhere else and so forth.
Speaker 8: What is important is to be able to bring the
Speaker 8: most tremendous customer experiense to all of our customers. So
Speaker 8: these are the main two areas where we are going
Speaker 8: to completitles this year.
Speaker 6: Caroline, I cannot resist the temptation. We have a startup
Speaker 6: in the software space raising money. Let's go there and
Speaker 6: talk about AI.
Speaker 5: I mean, it got to you. Just let us there.
Speaker 3: I don't know how, I mean artificial intelligence and just looking,
Speaker 3: we saw some video of how you interact with your
Speaker 3: product and it only looks like it sort of generator
Speaker 3: AI and predictive AI in some way.
Speaker 5: How are you folding that more into the business model?
Speaker 12: Yes, so, actually AI is already something that obviously we
Speaker 12: had thought about. It seemed the beginning first of Fuller
Speaker 12: with my co founder Romanically, we started to integrate an
Speaker 12: AI roonmap from day one and as of today we
Speaker 12: see we have several new features in better with the
Speaker 12: partnership with Chagpt.
Speaker 8: And for us, that's what is critical about the way
Speaker 8: we integrate AI within the platform is to make.
Speaker 12: The most intreitive customer experience for pretty much any business
Speaker 12: user on the platform. Again, our goal is to have
Speaker 12: literally any business user within a specific company to use Pigment.
Speaker 8: So for us, it's all about the simplicity of the platform.
Speaker 12: I can give you a concrete example around natural language
Speaker 12: that you can use with in Pigment to ask question
Speaker 12: such as what was my revenue in North America asture
Speaker 12: and that you can ask in natural language and the
Speaker 12: platform will answer. So for us, the idea is really
Speaker 12: to democratize even more the access to the platform.
Speaker 6: Pigment co CEO co founder Eleanor Crespo, French entrepreneur, French
Speaker 6: startup coming.
Speaker 4: To the US market Carroy, Thank you for joining the show.
Speaker 6: Now coming up All Things AI investing more with FPV
Speaker 6: Ventures Wesley chan As.
Speaker 4: Next, this is Plameberg.
Speaker 13: The hype is absolutely remarkable and I've never seen anything
Speaker 13: quite like it. AI has been having an impact for
Speaker 13: decades and this stuff is into brand new.
Speaker 14: If I'm right on AI and the impact on it,
Speaker 14: I mean, it's already making the top coder seven eight
Speaker 14: times seventy eight times more productive than they were five
Speaker 14: months ago. If it's as big as I think it
Speaker 14: is in Nvidia, is something we're going to want to
Speaker 14: own for at least two or three years, not for
Speaker 14: ten months.
Speaker 15: We want to engage with the regulators to say, what's
Speaker 15: the next generation of AI you going to do that's
Speaker 15: going to make it even more effective. And therefore maybe
Speaker 15: it's not totally explainable, but you understand that we're not
Speaker 15: using it, we're using it for the right purpose, and
Speaker 15: so changing the regulatory I would say process around the
Speaker 15: use of AI is going to be an important except
Speaker 15: for every industry.
Speaker 16: More software, That's how I would see it. And we've
Speaker 16: been bringing more software into finance for a really long time,
Speaker 16: and there's been all kinds of breakthroughs, and there's been
Speaker 16: all kinds of problems. It is statistical pattern matching. It's
Speaker 16: extremely powerful and it's interesting, but I do not see
Speaker 16: AI achieving what some would call the holy grail. Everybody
Speaker 16: wants to know what's the S and P going to
Speaker 16: be in six months?
Speaker 4: Can you tell me?
Speaker 16: And I can and neither can the AIS.
Speaker 5: Ah some hype, maybe some reality there.
Speaker 3: So speakers from Albertneberg invest some it this week giving
Speaker 3: their thoughts on all things AI. The space of course
Speaker 3: that we can't get enough of. Let's stick with it
Speaker 3: for our VC Spotlight. Very pleased to welcome Wesley Chan
Speaker 3: for more. Here's of course the co founder, management partner
Speaker 3: and FPV Ventures. And I'm sure you have a view
Speaker 3: or two whether we're hyped in terms of AI exuberance valuations.
Speaker 5: Even know, it's.
Speaker 17: Fascinating, right, I've watched this cycle happen so much many times.
Speaker 4: You know, I've been an.
Speaker 17: Investor for fifteen years and this happened when mobile phones
Speaker 17: first came out. There was a hype there and you
Speaker 17: know there were all these funds started on mobile and
Speaker 17: today you know everything is mobile, right, Like can you
Speaker 17: imagine trying to book an uber on your web browser.
Speaker 17: This doesn't happen you do it on your phone. And
Speaker 17: that hype sort of happened in two thousand and went
Speaker 17: away because we had everybody incorporating uber I mean sorry
Speaker 17: mobile into their products and into their apps. And today
Speaker 17: we have AI and there's this massive hype where people
Speaker 17: are saying, oh, we got to invest in all these
Speaker 17: AI companies. But you know, ten years from now, five
Speaker 17: years from now, we're going to be incorporating AI as
Speaker 17: part of our products, part of our strategy. We've been
Speaker 17: doing it for ten years and we're going to do
Speaker 17: it for another ten years later. So it's an interesting cycle.
Speaker 17: But you know, we've seen this happen over and over again.
Speaker 3: Okay, So to take the long term view, managed to
Speaker 3: sort of move out of the exuberants.
Speaker 5: And the headlines.
Speaker 3: How are you picking which companies in this current cohort
Speaker 3: you want to be backing, because I know you're all
Speaker 3: about the founder, but how are you ensuring that the
Speaker 3: photio companies you have are resilient to the disruption and
Speaker 3: how the founders that you back right here, right now
Speaker 3: are the right ones?
Speaker 4: Again, we take our lessons from history.
Speaker 17: In twenty ten When I started at Google Ventures, we
Speaker 17: invest in a lot of mobile companies, right. You know,
Speaker 17: I was an investor in a company called Parse, which
Speaker 17: wound up selling the Facebook, and you know that Facebook
Speaker 17: wound up shutting it down. It made some money, the
Speaker 17: founder did well, but we those mobile companies aren't around
Speaker 17: anymore because again it starts being incorporated as table stakes
Speaker 17: into every product. I think we're going to see some
Speaker 17: of that with AI again. Right, this is a very
Speaker 17: very contrary view. Every one of my colleagues is.
Speaker 4: Rushing in AI.
Speaker 17: Some firms are creating AI funds just specifically for looking
Speaker 17: at AI, and we are not investing in AI companies
Speaker 17: for the sake of AI. We're investing in companies because
Speaker 17: there's going to be great business models that would be
Speaker 17: created by the AI, and we don't even know what
Speaker 17: those are yet. There were all these mobile infrastructure companies
Speaker 17: in two thousand and ten when that happened. All those
Speaker 17: no longer exists. There's very few of them. The companies
Speaker 17: that wound up doing super well in that market had
Speaker 17: yet to be invented. When that mobile praise came up,
Speaker 17: it was Uber, it was Air, and it was these
Speaker 17: companies that figured out a business model were mobile enabled
Speaker 17: it to happen, and.
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna see the same on AI.
Speaker 17: There's gonna be new companies that will will change the
Speaker 17: landscape of how we do business, how we do work,
Speaker 17: how we buy products, how we book cars, how we
Speaker 17: book flights, and we're looking for those companies where that
Speaker 17: business model will be changed by AI rather than AI.
Speaker 17: For the sake of it, right, there's a lot of
Speaker 17: hype going into it, a lot of money going into it.
Speaker 17: They're gonna you're going to see these wars between Google
Speaker 17: and Microsoft and open Ai, and you know these companies
Speaker 17: are well funded, buying outrageous amounts of compute power, and
Speaker 17: you know, we want to be in the companies that
Speaker 17: are enabled by AI, not because AI exists.
Speaker 6: Wesley, it's been almost a year to the day since
Speaker 6: you were on Bloomberg Technology because you'd raised and launched
Speaker 6: your four hundred and fifty million dollar funds.
Speaker 4: YEP.
Speaker 6: Based on what you just said, have you not pivoted
Speaker 6: at AOL in the first six months of this year
Speaker 6: to respond to what's happening around you in terms of
Speaker 6: strategy and where you deploy capital.
Speaker 17: We are investing in mission driven founders that have a
Speaker 17: unique insight on how to change the world. When Larry
Speaker 17: and I spent my first fifteen years of my career
Speaker 17: at Google, I joined very very early. There were very
Speaker 17: few people at Google. When I joined, it was Sergei
Speaker 17: Brin's chief of staff, and Sergey is one of the
Speaker 17: co founders of Google. Google is an AI company today.
Speaker 17: Back then, nobody saw Google as.
Speaker 4: An AI company.
Speaker 17: They saw it as an ADS company the search engine.
Speaker 17: But Google has been using AI for fifteen years. We're
Speaker 17: just investing in founders that get what new business models
Speaker 17: get enabled because of AI. And We've been doing this
Speaker 17: for the last year, and I've been doing this in
Speaker 17: my career when I was at Google Ventures, in my
Speaker 17: previous fund for the last fifteen years. Some of our
Speaker 17: best companies are enabled by AI. Right, there's business models certainty,
Speaker 17: and that's where we're investing. So I'll give you an example.
Speaker 17: We have a company called stran Tx and they are
Speaker 17: redesigning the future of MR and A drugs. We have
Speaker 17: the mRNA vaccines that we got from Modernat and Pfizer,
Speaker 17: and there's a new generation of drugs coming and they
Speaker 17: redesign their MR and A sequences and they can figure
Speaker 17: out how to target the cells that need the therapy,
Speaker 17: that need the drugs. So they can target a cancer tumor,
Speaker 17: they can target that. They can target your liver cells
Speaker 17: if there's a defect in your lawyer of liver and
Speaker 17: we have to deliver a drug in it. When they
Speaker 17: use some AI to figure out how to create those
Speaker 17: sequences so the drug is most effective and not toxic
Speaker 17: at all, so you don't have any side effects. We
Speaker 17: have another company called Inveda, for example, that is doing AI.
Speaker 17: They use AI in the data on mass spectrometry to
Speaker 17: find natural compounds that are able to be future drugs
Speaker 17: for people to help here disease, skin disease, is cancer.
Speaker 17: These natural compounds have been in use for a while,
Speaker 17: but how do we turn them in the drugs so
Speaker 17: that they're just not like weird things that people buy
Speaker 17: at a drug store.
Speaker 4: They're using AI to figure that out.
Speaker 17: There's business model certainty in these businesses.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 17: If it's a drug company and the AI helps them
Speaker 17: get to a drug faster, then we know that the
Speaker 17: drug is very valuable and the market values that. So
Speaker 17: those are the type of companies we're investing in. They're
Speaker 17: run by great founders, and the founders truly get that
Speaker 17: AI is helping them get to the value faster rather
Speaker 17: than just creating a new a AI.
Speaker 4: Wesley.
Speaker 6: Those are the types of companies, and I actually am
Speaker 6: really interested in the mechanics of how deal making has
Speaker 6: changed over the last twelve months. So you launched with
Speaker 6: four hundred and fifty million last year because of the
Speaker 6: inbound and activity around AI, are you having to write
Speaker 6: larger checks or write checks with more frequency to keep
Speaker 6: up with the energy of your industry.
Speaker 17: Well, we've never, ever, ever invested into the hype when
Speaker 17: there were grocery delivery companies where people were putting billions
Speaker 17: of dollars. I remember betting pitched five with these grocery
Speaker 17: delivery companies, you know, in my place in New York.
Speaker 17: Every week I was getting a new postcard for thirty
Speaker 17: percent off some fifteen minute grocery delivery company, and at
Speaker 17: one point there were fifteen of them. Right, We didn't
Speaker 17: invest in any of them. Same with the scooters. We
Speaker 17: don't invest into the hype. So we're investing, for example,
Speaker 17: into drug discovery, where AI enables it that ability to
Speaker 17: get to the drug faster and to find a cure
Speaker 17: for cancer faster, and there aren't many people competing in
Speaker 17: that space for AI drug discovery companies.
Speaker 4: In fact that you know, every time we.
Speaker 17: Do a deal, there's probably like one or two other investors,
Speaker 17: you know, looking at that space because everybody's chasing these
Speaker 17: over hyped AI companies where we don't know which one's
Speaker 17: the winter. So we're very very contraran in how we
Speaker 17: look at companies. We do AI, but we don't do
Speaker 17: AI for the sake of AI. Just like in twenty ten,
Speaker 17: all the people that invested in mobile for the sake
Speaker 17: of mobile, those companies are no longer around. We love
Speaker 17: companies that are around for decades, in the centuries, if
Speaker 17: that's possible.
Speaker 6: Fpv A Ventures, co founder of managing partner WeSC Chann,
Speaker 6: We fit a lot in there.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 6: By Dance, the parent company of TikTok, is testing its
Speaker 6: own AI powered chatbot, joining China's AI Race. Not much
Speaker 6: is known about Grace, the project's code name, but Bloomberg
Speaker 6: sources say it's being tested internally among by Dance employees.
Speaker 6: It's worth noting that TikTok is also experimenting with its
Speaker 6: Taco chatbot, which appears as an instant messenger on the app.
Speaker 6: Perpetuating harmful stereotypes and biases is one of humanity's biggest ills,
Speaker 6: but a Bloomberg analysis of a text to image tool
Speaker 6: found that bias from AI is even worse. It's today's
Speaker 6: big take in joining us for more on this is
Speaker 6: Bloomberg's Data Viz leader Leo Nicolette.
Speaker 4: Okay, so Bloomberg.
Speaker 6: Uses Stable Diffusion, It gives commands and generates thousands of images.
Speaker 4: Talk us through what you did and why.
Speaker 18: Yes, So we basically carried out an experiment with Stable Diffusion,
Speaker 18: which is one of the biggest open source platforms for
Speaker 18: AI generated images, and being open source makes it easy
Speaker 18: to also analyze and experiment with, and we wanted to
Speaker 18: understand how deeply ingrained.
Speaker 4: Biases might be in this technology.
Speaker 18: So we asked to create thousands of images of workers
Speaker 18: for fourteen jobs and also different criminalized categories, and then
Speaker 18: we analyzed the results and you know what we found
Speaker 18: was a really systemic pattern of racial and gender that
Speaker 18: doesn't just replicate stereotypes, but it actually makes them worse.
Speaker 18: It stretches them to extremes worse than those found in
Speaker 18: the real world. Women and people with darker skin tones
Speaker 18: were underrepresented across images of high paying jobs and overrepresented
Speaker 18: for low paying ones for example.
Speaker 3: It's truly depressing, and I suppose ultimately the problem here
Speaker 3: is society and stability AI and Stable Diffusion is just
Speaker 3: emphasizing that even more when you're coming to your reporting,
Speaker 3: when you're looking at the outcomes. How much was their
Speaker 3: discussion about the fixes here? Is it about auditing some
Speaker 3: of the algorithms, is there a way of ensuring that
Speaker 3: we don't or is it about the prompting that's being
Speaker 3: put in.
Speaker 18: Well, one of the important things is about transparency. So
Speaker 18: it is a good thing that Stable Diffusion is open
Speaker 18: source because that enables people and you know, researchers to
Speaker 18: actually improve the model and make it better. So that's
Speaker 18: in a way it can be better than closed source
Speaker 18: models like you know DAI for example, where we don't
Speaker 18: really have that much knowledge into how they're being improved
Speaker 18: and by how much.
Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, sorry, let me just jump in real quick,
Speaker 6: and I would just point out that a spokesperson spinit
Speaker 6: Ai points out that all AI models have this inherent
Speaker 6: bias of them, but their point is that by open
Speaker 6: sourcing it, Caroline, that they can work towards overcoming that
Speaker 6: rather than close or non open source models.
Speaker 3: I wish we could discuss this day and day out,
Speaker 3: and Leo, I'm hoping you can come back and join
Speaker 3: us a little bit more on but more imminently.
Speaker 5: Go read his work.
Speaker 3: It's with Dinabas as well. Leo Nicoletti, thank you for
Speaker 3: staying late for us in Italy. It's absolutely fascinating peace
Speaker 3: and ultimately a bit depressing as it stands, but we
Speaker 3: don't want to end.
Speaker 5: On a low note. Ed because the time is nigh.
Speaker 3: We're wrapping up. It's the edition of Bloomberg Technology wrapped up,
Speaker 3: but it can.
Speaker 6: Get more incredible weak and I've forgotten that it starts
Speaker 6: with Apple and WWDC. You can recap on the podcast
Speaker 6: wherever you get yours, Apple, Spotify, iHeart and Don Bloomberg
Speaker 6: from New York from SF.
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg