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Speaker 1: Novel. Hey listener. In this episode, we talk about domestic violence, control, murder,

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Speaker 1: and disposing of a body. There's also a group of

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Speaker 1: fearless women honoring their beloved friend by holding a man accountable.

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Speaker 1: Once again, be warned to expect some swearing. This episode

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Speaker 1: really earns it. If you do listen and are impacted

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Speaker 1: by any of our themes, you can reach out to

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Speaker 1: No More, a domestic violence charity we've partnered with. They

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Speaker 1: have lots of great resources to help you or your

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Speaker 1: loved ones. You can find them at no More dot org.

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Speaker 1: That's no More dot org. It was early in the

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Speaker 1: morning on October twelfth, two thousand. I arrived at the

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Speaker 1: Manhattan Criminal Courthouse to testify against Bob and I was terrified.

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Speaker 1: I remember saying to myself, just don't pass out, Carol,

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Speaker 1: don't pass out. And so with that pep talk over,

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Speaker 1: I entered the building through the revolving door. I emptied

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Speaker 1: my pockets into a tray, and I walked through the

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Speaker 1: metal detectors. Shortly after I was greeted by the prosecutors.

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Speaker 1: They pointed out a woman with cropped red hair and

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Speaker 1: told me it was Gail's sister Elaine. We had spoken

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Speaker 1: about her at the Mayflower a few times, but we

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Speaker 1: didn't know anything about her. She just seemed like a

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Speaker 1: traumatized sister, and that's exactly what she looked like in

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Speaker 1: the courthouse that day, traumatized but determined. Eventually, after some

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Speaker 1: waiting around, it was my turn to testify. I walked

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Speaker 1: out into the cavernous courtroom to see press, the judge, jury,

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Speaker 1: and Bob's new wife. And there in the chair where

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Speaker 1: people on trial sit was my ex boyfriend Bob. He

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Speaker 1: looked different, older, more tired, but he did flash me

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Speaker 1: this confusing smirk, a smirk till this day I still

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Speaker 1: don't understand. When I got to the witness box, the

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Speaker 1: prosecution told me to address the jury, and then came

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Speaker 1: the questions, how do you meet Mob? How long did

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Speaker 1: you date for? What did he tell you about his wife?

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Speaker 1: So I told him about the time I asked Bob

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Speaker 1: if he killed his wife, and when I explained how

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Speaker 1: silent and weird he got, I could see the jury

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Speaker 1: nodding along, and that's when I realized Bob was totally fucked.

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Speaker 1: Carol Fisher from the teams at Novel and iHeartRadio, you're

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Speaker 1: listening to The Girlfriend's Episode eight, The Girlfriends Versus Beerenbaum.

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Speaker 1: After I testified, I took the first flight out of

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Speaker 1: New York that I could. I was not interested in

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Speaker 1: sticking around, So I really knew very little about what

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Speaker 1: actually went down at the trial. But my brilliant researcher Maddie,

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Speaker 1: she got a hold of the transcripts, all one thousand,

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Speaker 1: five hundred and nineteen pages of them. So let's start

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Speaker 1: from the beginning. The trial started on October tewod two thousand,

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Speaker 1: fifteen years after Gale's death. By then the case had

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Speaker 1: gone from relative obscurity to one of the most covered

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Speaker 1: court cases in New York City. Reporter Catherine Eban made

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Speaker 1: sure she kept her front row seat.

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Speaker 2: By then, the courtroom was full, so my colleagues in

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Speaker 2: the press corps all showed up.

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Speaker 3: Place was packed almost every day.

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Speaker 1: That's Prosecutor Daniel Bibb Press took up.

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Speaker 3: The first two rows. There was press from all over

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Speaker 3: the place, not just New York.

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Speaker 1: In front of the press in what's called the well,

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Speaker 1: the attorney sat at two large wooden tables. The prosecution

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Speaker 1: closest to the jurors box.

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Speaker 3: There's three of us see Sirocco, Adam Kaufman, and me

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Speaker 3: sitting at the prosecution table, which is facing the bench.

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Speaker 3: Then you have the left, probably ten feet away is

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Speaker 3: the defense table with Scott Greenfield, David Lewis, and Catherine Case.

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Speaker 1: Those were Bob's attorneys. In case that's not obvious, you

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Speaker 1: won't hear from them because they were not interested in

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Speaker 1: appearing on this podcast. Back to the courtroom, we're in

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Speaker 1: front of everybody. With a huge American flag behind her

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Speaker 1: sat the judge, Leslie Crocker Snyder.

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Speaker 4: I don't really use a gabble, except I had a

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Speaker 4: huge one that was given to me as a joke,

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Speaker 4: and occasionally I'd use it to get the jury laughing.

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Speaker 2: I remember her as a blonde haired, no nonsense judge

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Speaker 2: with a big reputation. She was not there to play.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she was very strict and tough with the attorneys.

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Speaker 1: And then sitting at the defence table furthest away from

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Speaker 1: the jury as possible was Bob.

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Speaker 2: I remember Beerenbaum. He had this sort of stitching gloom

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Speaker 2: that hung over him, reflected in the deep shadows under

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Speaker 2: his eyes.

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Speaker 1: The trial lasted nine long days. During that time, the

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Speaker 1: defense and prosecution agreed that Gail died at some point

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Speaker 1: on July seventh, nineteen eighty five, but that's where the

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Speaker 1: similarities end. The defense argued that there was not enough

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Speaker 1: evidence to prove that Bob killed her. Instead, they suggest

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things could have happened to her that day.

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Speaker 4: They painted her as a woman with a lot of problems,

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Speaker 4: very needy, one suicidal, Realdy motivated by money. It was

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Speaker 4: quote unquote blaming the victim, which, although was pre days

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Speaker 4: of me too, I think was very distasteful. But the

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Speaker 4: portrait of both of them emerged as two people who

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Speaker 4: should have gotten divorced a long time before, and there

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Speaker 4: was an escalation of violent and horrible conduct.

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Speaker 1: The defense's second tack was a bit more tangible. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it was a serious threat. At the beginning of the trial,

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Speaker 1: they told the jury that they had just one witness

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Speaker 1: to call, a star witness that swears he saw Gilcats

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Speaker 1: alive and well in the hours that the prosecution alleged

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Speaker 1: she was dead.

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Speaker 3: It's a five minute acquittal if you believe this guy,

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Speaker 3: because he says he sees her at a time when

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Speaker 3: our theory is that she is dead and either in

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Speaker 3: a bag in a plane or already in the Atlantic Ocean.

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Speaker 3: Okay kills, the case dead done.

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Speaker 1: The prosecution's goal was to do their best to undermine

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Speaker 1: the defense's case because, as the judge explained, the burden

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Speaker 1: of proof was on them. They needed to prove that

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Speaker 1: the reason Gail was dead was because Bob killed her.

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Speaker 1: In the prosecution's opening statement, Dan argued that Gail wasn't suicidal.

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Speaker 1: In fact, multiple friends claimed she was happier than she

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Speaker 1: had been in a while. Her psychiatrist, Sybil Baron even

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Speaker 1: remembers Gail getting a pedicure just days before she went missing.

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Speaker 3: I think the line was suicides don't get pedicures.

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Speaker 1: Then there was the portrayal of Gail's a drug fiend

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Speaker 1: running with the wrong crowd. The prosecution made it clear

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Speaker 1: that this was a gross exaggeration. Her boyfriend Anthony Sigalis

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Speaker 1: said he only did coke with Gail twice, so she

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Speaker 1: certainly was not an addict.

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Speaker 3: You know, everybody did cocaine in the eighties, it was everywhere.

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Speaker 3: She was not this hardcore cocaine. So some beginner coke

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Speaker 3: user all of a sudden becomes this died in the

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Speaker 3: wool coke head and gets killed by a drug dealer

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Speaker 3: who then disposed of her body. Made no sense whatsoever.

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Speaker 3: People get killed by drug dealers, their body is usually found,

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Speaker 3: you know. And people who die of drug overdoses, their

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Speaker 3: bodies are found.

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Speaker 1: And that was the crux of the prosecution's case. Gail's

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Speaker 1: body had never been found. And the reason they theorized

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Speaker 1: is because Bob killed Gail and threw her body out

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Speaker 1: of a plane and into the Atlantic Ocean. They just

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Speaker 1: had to prove it.

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Speaker 3: This was no easy task. We were facing no body,

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Speaker 3: no forensics, no admissions, an extremely difficult, circumstantial case based

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Speaker 3: in large part on things that the defendant had said

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Speaker 3: to his friends and his girlfriends.

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Speaker 1: You've already heard a lot of what's covered throughout the trial,

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Speaker 1: our testimonies. But when I read through these transcripts, I

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Speaker 1: discovered parts of the story that I've never heard before.

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Speaker 1: Things it shocked me. I also see what Prosecutor Steve

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Speaker 1: meant when he described the trial as a production. The

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Speaker 1: prosecution called up thirty seven witnesses to the stand, all

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Speaker 1: of us weaving threads of circumstantial evidence together to create

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Speaker 1: an image of Bob for the jury. First up was

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Speaker 1: Bob the controlling boyfriend.

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Speaker 5: I mean, who makes their wife have to sit on

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Speaker 5: his lap to eat dinner. It was just so strange.

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Speaker 6: He had to control everything that they did, what they ate,

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Speaker 6: where they went.

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Speaker 1: And there was violent Bob.

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Speaker 7: He came running and leaped over the couch, pushed her

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Speaker 7: down with his hands around her throat, and strangled her.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes a witness testimony made it seem like he wanted

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Speaker 1: to kill Gail, like telling one of his friends that

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Speaker 1: he hated Gail so much he could kill her, or

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Speaker 1: telling Gail that he would kill her if she left him.

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Speaker 1: One of the most controversial moments of the trial was

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Speaker 1: when various witnesses started bringing up the Pterosov letter from

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Speaker 1: doctor Stone, the letter he had written warning Gail that

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Speaker 1: Bob might kill her. The judge had disallowed this piece

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Speaker 1: of physical evidence in the pretrial hearings, but she did

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Speaker 1: not stop people from describing it in great detail.

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Speaker 4: One of the functions of the judge in any case

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Speaker 4: is to try to balance both sides right, and I

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Speaker 4: felt that allowing testimony about the nature of a letter,

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Speaker 4: which I did with the Tarosoft letter, but not allowing

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Speaker 4: it in for the jury to see, was a balancing

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Speaker 4: of fairness to both sides.

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Speaker 7: I'll never forget the defense arguing that having me testified

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Speaker 7: to what the letter said was almost worse than having

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Speaker 7: the letter admitted into evidence, and they may have been right.

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Speaker 7: At least it wouldn't have been the sister talking about it.

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Speaker 1: And of course it was that letter that Gail told

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Speaker 1: multiple people she was going to use to blackmail Bob,

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Speaker 1: forcing him into divorcing and continuing to pay her school tuition.

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Speaker 1: But there was also something else that came out at trial,

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Speaker 1: something I had never heard about before. Gail told her

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Speaker 1: friend Lee that she had evidence that Bob and his

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Speaker 1: father were involved in medicaid fraud and that she was

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Speaker 1: planning on using that information as part of her ammunition

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Speaker 1: against Bob. Gail had all this information ready to go

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Speaker 1: on Saturday, July sixth, the day before she went missing.

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Speaker 1: That day, she went to her hairdressers to the Ghana

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Speaker 1: cologist for a routine IUD checkup, and she saw friends

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Speaker 1: even bumping into her fling Anthony. Everyone described her as

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Speaker 1: happy and jovial and the reason she was going to

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Speaker 1: ask Bob for a divorce that weekend.

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Speaker 5: She was going to make him dinner and then during

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Speaker 5: dinner she was going to talk to Mob about leaving.

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Speaker 1: We have no idea what happened over that dinner, if

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Speaker 1: she told him at all, but we do know that's

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Speaker 1: not when she died. The next morning, at around ten

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Speaker 1: thirty am on July seventh, Gail picked up a call

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Speaker 1: from her former boss, Francesca Bial. Francesca wanted a doctor

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Speaker 1: recommendation from Bob, but Gail was sounding off. And that

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Speaker 1: is the last time anyone other than Bob saw or

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Speaker 1: heard from Gail. As multiple people testified, no one saw

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Speaker 1: her leave the apartment building, not the doorman, not the neighbors.

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Speaker 1: Gail had vanished, leaving all of her possessions, including her wallet, cigarettes,

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Speaker 1: credit cards, address book, and keys. This is the point

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Speaker 1: in the prosecution story where they stopped talking about Gail

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Speaker 1: and instead start talking about Bob, because, as you know,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't acting like your typical grieving husband. He was

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Speaker 1: constantly missing and not returning phone calls from the police.

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Speaker 1: He said the police could search his apartment, but when

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Speaker 1: the forensics team showed up, his lawyer said they could

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Speaker 1: only dust for fingerprints. He tried to avoid all the press.

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Speaker 1: He avoided putting posters up in his building. He did

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Speaker 1: not even interview the doormaan basically never felt to Gaile's

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Speaker 1: family and friends like Bob was driving the search. Instead.

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Speaker 1: After a couple of weeks, Bob was seen partying in

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Speaker 1: the Hampton's, dressing like he was in Saturday Night Fever

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Speaker 1: and laughing at a comedy show. And then there were

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Speaker 1: the romances like ROBERTA. Karnowski, who challenged Bob over dinner

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Speaker 1: about killing his wife, and Karen Carojuana his Hampton's fling.

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Speaker 1: They all testified to the prosecutors brought on a lot

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Speaker 1: of witnesses to show how everyone who interacted with Bob

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Speaker 1: after Gail's disappearance seemed to come away with a slightly

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Speaker 1: different story. I think he just didn't count on us

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Speaker 1: remembering everything or talking about it.

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Speaker 3: These were all professional women who said, your wife is missing,

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Speaker 3: and you did what. My argument was that the women

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Speaker 3: here definitely would remember things like this, because again, there

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Speaker 3: but for the grace of God, go on. You know

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Speaker 3: somebody is telling you how their wife disappeared. Wouldn't that

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Speaker 3: see her into your brain?

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Speaker 1: But, as the defense argued, all our stories were just

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Speaker 1: a smattering of circumstantial evidence. Witnesses recalling conversations they had

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago. Is that really enough? They asked a

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Speaker 1: jury to say, beyond any reasonable doubt that Bob killed Gail,

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Speaker 1: Even after being presented with all of the evidence from

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Speaker 1: the Pterosoft letter, Bob's lawyer argued that the notion that

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Speaker 1: Bob controlled Gail went against the evidence. Instead, they explained

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Speaker 1: that Bob jumped into new relationships fast because why not

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Speaker 1: his wife cheated, did drugs, and ran off. Finally, the

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Speaker 1: defense referred to the moment Roberta challenged Bob over dinner,

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Speaker 1: saying she believed he threw Gail out of a plane,

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Speaker 1: a crackpot theory that Bob just did not need to

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Speaker 1: respond to. But Dan and Steve did have a response

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Speaker 1: to that theory, a piece of evidence that shows Roberta's

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Speaker 1: idea wasn't so crackpot after all that after the break.

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Speaker 1: So we all know the theory by now, where as

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Speaker 1: the defense likes to call it the Roberta theory, it's

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Speaker 1: something that the prosecution we're running with. But how do

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Speaker 1: you prove it? Like, how could he have done that?

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Speaker 2: How can you be flying a plane and pushing a

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Speaker 2: body out of a plane?

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Speaker 1: At the same time, we.

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Speaker 8: Were confident that if we didn't show the jury that

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Speaker 8: this could be done, they're going to bring in somebody

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Speaker 8: and say that this is impossible.

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Speaker 3: So we actually found the airplane that he used. It

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Speaker 3: was an upstate New York. It was a complete and

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Speaker 3: total wreck. But we used the exact same model and

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Speaker 3: an NYPD helicopter. And what we did is we put

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Speaker 3: two fifty pound bags of sand and a ten pound

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Speaker 3: bag of rice and a number of Duffel bags and

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Speaker 3: put him in the back of the plane and it

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Speaker 3: actually took off from Coal Airport, the same airport he used,

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Speaker 3: and then trailed by an NYPD helicopter. They flew out

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Speaker 3: over the ocean and they did three demonstrations, one where

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Speaker 3: he simply just pushed open the passenger side door and

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Speaker 3: pushed it out, one where he actually banked the plane

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Speaker 3: the door opened and it fell out of its own accord.

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Speaker 3: And then the third one where he's ragged the Duffel

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Speaker 3: bag across his box and put it out the pilot's

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Speaker 3: side door.

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Speaker 8: And this sergeant is actually on the witness stand describing

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Speaker 8: this whole thing to the jury using the video of it.

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Speaker 1: It was very powerful I've seen this video, and for me,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to watch these bags of sand and rice

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Speaker 1: and think about a woman inside, a woman who just

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Speaker 1: the day before had done all the things that I

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Speaker 1: would do, had her hair done, laugh with the friend

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Speaker 1: in the park, and there she was in an airplane

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Speaker 1: with Bob, a place that I had been many times,

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Speaker 1: a place where I had seen so much beauty. She

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Speaker 1: was there in a bag.

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Speaker 3: The jurors sat there wrapped attention, not an eyeball, wasn't

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Speaker 3: on those television screens watching that demonstration.

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Speaker 2: It was a moment that everybody paid close attention to

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Speaker 2: because it was very strange. I mean, to reenact something

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Speaker 2: that you think happened based on circumstantial evidence and no

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Speaker 2: actual proof. But essentially that was their case. That was

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Speaker 2: how they were going to build it.

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Speaker 1: The prosecution then brought out a guy named Charles McKenna

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Speaker 1: from the airline rental company, who verified the booking and

286
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: the invoice charged to beer Embaum. He confirmed that Bob

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Speaker 1: could have flown at least eighty miles out before turning

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Speaker 1: around that day. Then New York's chief medical examiner, Charles Hirsch,

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Speaker 1: described how easy it would be for a skilled surgeon

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Speaker 1: to dismember a body in as little as ten minutes

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Speaker 1: with the kitchen knife in order to fit it in

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Speaker 1: a duffel bag. If he acted fast enough, he may

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Speaker 1: have even been able to fold her in without the

294
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Speaker 1: graphic mutilation. But the real clincher to the flight theory

295
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: was when they brought out Roberta Karnofski. She told the

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Speaker 1: jury about the moment she and Sharon found his altered

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Speaker 1: flight lock. At this point in the trial, the prosecution

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Speaker 1: brought out a brand new piece of evidence. They had

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Speaker 1: subpoenaed Bob and forced him to turn over the original

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Speaker 1: flight log, and right there for everyone to see was

301
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Speaker 1: the alteration. Just as Roberta was describing it, the seventh

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00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: of July seventh had been crudely changed to an eight.

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Speaker 1: It's even in the wrong color ink.

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Speaker 3: I'm like Steve, this is a home run. He goes, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: why the hell didn't Burnbaum just burn the thing? And

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Speaker 3: I said, because he's anal because he saves everything. He

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Speaker 3: couldn't let it go.

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Speaker 1: But then, just as it was looking like a landslide

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Speaker 1: victory for the prosecution, the defense played the ace up

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Speaker 1: their sleeve. Their star witness oh in the weeks following

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00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: gales disappearance, the missing person squad received seven or eight

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00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: calls from people claiming to have seen her. Among them

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Speaker 1: was a retired textiles manufacturer, Joel Davis. On October eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand, the eighth and last day of testimony, the

315
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Speaker 1: defense called Joel to the stand.

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Speaker 3: So Joel Davis walks to the court and says hello

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Speaker 3: to us. He's just walking in, So he takes the

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Speaker 3: stand and David Lewis takes them through direct.

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Speaker 1: Joel described how on the afternoon of July seventh, at

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Speaker 1: H and H Bagel on eighty first Street and Second Avenue,

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Speaker 1: he noticed an attractive woman wearing a distinctive T shirt

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Speaker 1: with the complex and colorful print. Three to five weeks later,

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Speaker 1: he sees Gail's missing poster and recognizes her as the

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Speaker 1: woman he saw at the bagel shop. At around five

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Speaker 1: in the morning. He calls the missing Person's number to

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Speaker 1: report it. This was not looking good for the prosecution.

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Speaker 4: He was pretty strong, and I think everyone in the

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Speaker 4: courtroom thought that's the end of the prosecution case. Because

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Speaker 4: he was absolutely adamant that he had seen Gail late

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Speaker 4: enough in the day so that the defendant couldn't have

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Speaker 4: killed her.

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Speaker 3: Steve's like, oh, this is a problem one.

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Speaker 8: You're thinks she's alive when we shay she's dead. That

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Speaker 8: case is over. Down to tubes.

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Speaker 3: Steve gets up, and you know, the adage is you

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Speaker 3: don't answer a question on cross examination that you don't

337
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: know the answer to. That's not one hundred percent true.

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Speaker 1: When Steve stepped up to question Joel, he had a

339
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: clear tactic spin Joel around enough times that he ends

340
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: up undoing his own testimony. He started by asking Joel

341
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: to clarify details like what did this woman actually look like,

342
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: to which Joel responded that the woman he saw was

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00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 1: with another woman carrying a large beach bag. They were

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Speaker 1: deeply tanned, with a lot of oil all over their bodies.

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Speaker 1: He said that he was probably in her presence for

346
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Speaker 1: between five and ten minutes while they waited in line

347
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Speaker 1: for takeout. But then it all starts getting a bit seedy.

348
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Speaker 1: The first thing that caught Joel's eye was her T shirt.

349
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Speaker 1: He was in the print business, and he was impressed

350
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Speaker 1: with the T shirt's European printing style. But then his

351
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 1: eyes drifted to her body, which he found very attractive.

352
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Speaker 1: When asked to describe her, he says her face reminded

353
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Speaker 1: him of a friend's sister in law, but she was

354
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Speaker 1: built like his ex wife. Five't one, well defined and

355
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Speaker 1: a very good body.

356
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Speaker 8: He describes her as voluptuous, like she's really built, you know,

357
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Speaker 8: and Gail was as flat as a board.

358
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Speaker 1: He'd previously said he was pretty positive, whereas now he

359
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: was one hundred percent sure. He'd changed where he'd seen her.

360
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: He changed the clothes she was wearing. At one point,

361
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Speaker 1: when asked whether he saw photos of Gail, he said,

362
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Speaker 1: I didn't see the picture, but I did see the picture.

363
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Speaker 9: You know.

364
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 3: All he's doing is he's basically taking a knife and

365
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 3: he's stabbing himself in the chest with every word that

366
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,719
Speaker 3: comes out of his mouth. Stevie is just spinning him

367
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Speaker 3: around in circles.

368
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: Steve then drilled deeper into Joel's physical description of Gail.

369
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: He pulled out some transcripts of a previous interview where

370
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Speaker 1: Joel had described the woman in the bagel shop as

371
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Speaker 1: tall and statuesque. He said he'd noticed her because he

372
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Speaker 1: was a leg and ass man.

373
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Speaker 9: Jesus Christ, he is describing a woman that is completely

374
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Speaker 9: opposite of who Gail Barnbaunm was physically.

375
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Speaker 4: It was kind of amusing how he described her as,

376
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 4: you know, so statuesque and what a great body and tall,

377
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 4: and then he withdrew that a little bit.

378
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 3: He gets so flustered and he goes, can I explain.

379
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: Steve leans down to me, he goes, what do you think?

380
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: I go one hundred percent, let him explain. He said

381
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Speaker 3: he's going to explode.

382
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: He did explode with utter nonsense. Joel started fumbling and

383
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: said he did, in fact see a woman in the

384
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: bagel shop, but he confused that woman with not only Gail,

385
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: but the body of his ex wife, who was small,

386
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: and with the face of his friend's ex sister in law,

387
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: who was tall but had a similar face to Gail's.

388
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: If you are confused, don't worry. So is Joel, and

389
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: so is everyone in that courtroom.

390
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 3: There were audible gasps from the jury, I mean audible.

391
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: And he finishes and Steve leaves down. I go sit down.

392
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: He goes, like a couple more questions. I said, sit down.

393
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: To really put the final nail in Joel's coffin, Dan

394
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: and Steve called it Blaine with a huge photo of

395
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: Gail in a bikini.

396
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 7: I went up on the witness stand and I identified

397
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 7: the photo and it showed a side profile of her

398
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 7: in the bikini, and the picture depicted her as a

399
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 7: flat chested woman.

400
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 4: It was like a television moment, really, that witness had

401
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: been destroyed, and that doesn't really happen that often in trials.

402
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 4: That you're able to show that the witness was either

403
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 4: lying or mistaken.

404
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 7: And that was it. The trial was over, the jury

405
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 7: was charged, and then the alternates were dismissed. You have

406
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 7: alternate jurors in case someone gets sick. And one of

407
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 7: the alternates, a beautiful woman, walked down and sat next

408
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 7: to me and she squeezed my hand and she said,

409
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 7: I hope they convict. And there I had yet another sister.

410
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: After around six hours of deliberation over two days, the

411
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: jury reached their verdict.

412
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, have you reached a verdict? Then a

413
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: four persons say yes, say as to this sole count

414
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 3: of the indictment, trudge murder on the second degree, how

415
00:28:48,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty.

416
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 7: I remember turning to my brother and saying, what did

417
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 7: they say? And he said guilty? And I said yes,

418
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 7: and I squeezed my brother's hands so hard it hurt.

419
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 7: And at the same time I did that, I took

420
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 7: my fist and I banged it on my own thigh

421
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 7: and I felt free at.

422
00:29:49,440 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 10: Last, And just like that we got him.

423
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: My sister called me.

424
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 5: She said guilty, and I started screaming.

425
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll never forget my mother calling me.

426
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: Is screaming on the phone.

427
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 6: He's guilty, he's guilty, He's guilty. About fifteen times and

428
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 6: just sobbing, just sobbing.

429
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: On November twenty ninth, two thousand, Judge Crocker Snyder sentenced

430
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: Bob to twenty years to life.

431
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 4: I tried to consider everything, the evidence, the horrible nature

432
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 4: of the crime, but also that it had been at

433
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 4: that point fifteen years, I guess, and that he had

434
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 4: done a lot of good things. Berenbaum was a horrible

435
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 4: person in what he did, but even if it was

436
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: to xpiate his guilt, he spent the last fifteen years

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00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 4: helping kids in Mexico and doing a lot of good things,

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00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 4: and in no way did that detract from the horrible

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00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 4: nature of the crime. But I also thought he deserved

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00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 4: some credit for that. The minimum would have been fifteen

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00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 4: to life at maximum twenty five to life, and I

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00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 4: gave him twenty years to life. This was a tough

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00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 4: sentence in that I felt I should factor in what

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00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 4: little good he had done, But it.

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00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: Was some good. When I first learned about the verdict,

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00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: I had mixed feelings. A part of me felt so

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00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: bad for Bob because I had always wanted to believe

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00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: that he was just overworked. Gail was a tough wife

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00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: and he had just snapped one moment of anger him

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00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: twenty years of his life. But making this series has

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00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: changed my mind. In those intervening years, Bob dated so

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00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: many women that didn't feel safe around him. He allegedly

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00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: pushed Karen out of a moving taxi. He screamed and

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00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: raged at me. He was so controlling that a therapist

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00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: told Stephanie that she could be in danger if she

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00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: continued to date him. He showed no empathy and no

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00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: remorse to any of Gaile's family. Bob's charity work in Mexico,

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00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: treating children with cleft palletts, it was definitely good, but

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00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: I just don't think it has anything to do with it.

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00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: He killed a woman, a woman who was in an

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00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: intimate relationship with him, a woman just like me or

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00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: Mindy or Roberta or Stephanie or Karen. And there's nothing

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00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: to say that he couldn't have done it again. If

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00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: you're good at math, you've already figured out that Bob

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00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: was convicted in two thousand and finished serving his twenty

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00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: year sentence in twenty twenty, and well, there's been some

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00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: recent developments. That's next. Time on the Girlfriends.

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Speaker 11: Oh I had twenty years of solid peace. I never

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00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 11: thought about Bob for twenty years anymore. And then the

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00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 11: Pearol's process started.

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00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: Mindy, what I've got the transcripts from Bob's parole hearing.

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00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, tell me what happened On July seventh,

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00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five. We were arguing with each other and

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00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: things escalated. How did you attack her? Sir?

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00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 9: Elaine?

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00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 7: Hello, Hi, Nice to meet you, Carol and Mindy.

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00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: Nice to meet you, Elaine, very nice to meet you.

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00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: The Girlfriends is produced by Novel for Ourheart Radio. For

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00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. The series is

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00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: hosted by me Carol Fisher and produced by Annasinfield. Our

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00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: assistant producer is Julian Manyu Gera Patten and our researcher

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00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: is Madeline Parr. The editor is Veronica Simmons. Max O'Brien

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00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: is our executive producer. Our fact checker is Valeria Rocca.

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00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: Production management from Sharie Houston and Charlotte woolf. Sound design,

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00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 1: mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempsen and Nicholas Alexander. Music

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00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: supervision by Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Luisa. Story

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00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: development by Isaac Fisher. Willard Foxton is creative director of development.

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00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Shawn Glynn, David Waters, Might, Billy Rowl,

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00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: Katrina Norvell, David Wasserman, and Beth Anne Mcaluso. We did

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00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: reach out to Bob and his legal team to ask

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00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: if he'd like to comment on the podcast, but we

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00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: never heard back. Novel