1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, pull up a chair. 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 2: It's that time of the week. We're having lunch on 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: Table for two with Bruce Bosi and guess what. We 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 2: are here at the Tower Hotel in Los Angeles on 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 2: a gray, sort of chilly day. I mean, I think 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 2: I usually do like the chop salad, but I'll do 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: it some avocado today. 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 3: You'll have a chop sale as well. 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: We're having lunch with the director of Public Enemies, Manhunter, 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: the last of the Mohicans, Heat The Insider Collateral. He's 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: worked with triple A plus actors. He directs them brilliantly, 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 2: and he's all about the human psychology of his characters. 13 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, you're like the man. Mister Man is 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: the man open. 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 3: In the morning and look at the mirror and say, 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 3: oh hello. 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: You know, so, pull up a chair and you're really 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: going to enjoy this. We're having lunch with the director 19 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: of Ferrari, starring Penelope Cruz and Adam Driver. Mister Michael Mann. 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: I'm Bruce Bossi and this is my podcast Table for two. 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 4: Welcome, Thank you very much. 22 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: I mean, let me tell you, your movies blow me away, 23 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: and I really can just jump into Ferrari because we 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: can start there, because Michael, I watched this movie and 25 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: it blew me away on so many levels. 26 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: The blew me away on. 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: The performances that Adam Driver Gay, that Penelope Cruise. 28 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: She blew me away. 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: And I want to talk about your process in getting 30 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: these actors to give them these A plus actors, your 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: ability to capture the Italian culture being an Italian American 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: really resonated with me. And then of course the story 33 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: of Enzo Ferrari and also race car driving and can 34 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: you just jump in and tell me about this. 35 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: It's an incredible movie. 36 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: Do you go into the process saying, Okay, I know 37 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: who I want to play these characters. 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 4: I know who Enzo should be. That's a great question. 39 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 5: I actually have to have a real sense of the 40 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 5: character first, and then I start talking to actresses or 41 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 5: actors and then kind of a mental you know, kind 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 5: of a mental projection. If this actress is inhabiting this character, 43 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 5: this is the this is the yield, and then that's 44 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 5: just that's your imagination working, you know, it's a kind 45 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 5: of creative imagination, kind of projecting what would it be like? 46 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 5: And you're talking to them and sometimes there'll be a 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 5: simple turn of the phrase, or although somebody will reach for, 48 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 5: you know, a fork that's not there, she'll say something 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 5: to a wai or in in that moment you'll see, yes, 50 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 5: you'll see this is the person, this is it, She's it, 51 00:02:59,080 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 5: you know. 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 3: And with Peneloping, it was about four minutes into a 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: zoom really and yeah, and I did. 54 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: She do something in that four minutes. 55 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 3: It was her kind of express her kind of. 56 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 5: What I call it, a kind of a Mediterranean self confidence, 57 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 5: if you like, you know, kind of the way she 58 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 5: talks to her son and wanted to say hello to me. 59 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 4: She kept pushing it aside. 60 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 5: Was there something about the certainty that she has the 61 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 5: absolutely uh, no self doubt. There's a certainty when she 62 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 5: thinks something, her values that in self confidence that gives 63 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 5: a certainty to her feelings. So when she feels a thing, 64 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 5: that's it, you know, And that's absolutely Lara. 65 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 3: And then question her face and how she expresses all right, but. 66 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: The cadence of her law, like her hope, I've never 67 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: seen her sort of the shift in her body and 68 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: in her face in your movie with really exemplified Lara's 69 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: you know, the twist in her not only the pain 70 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: of them losing a child, but now where the marriage went, 71 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: the whole and the complication, the financial crisis that Ferrari 72 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: finds himself in that she's now as part of what 73 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: do you do on set to sort of say, okay, 74 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: you know you make films Michael, that you work with 75 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: actors that are like triple A plus actors, and then 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: you proceed to be able to get a performance that 77 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: is next level that not only they get accolades and 78 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: achievements and awards, but like make films that last the 79 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 2: test of time, which will which is really being a storyteller. 80 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: I assume I would think, you want, how did you 81 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: if we stay just in the Ferrari world right now, 82 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 2: when you sit with your Penelope and share your on set, 83 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: you're like, okay. 84 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 5: It starts with my you know what an actor looks 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 5: in the same doesn't seem a nalosis? And it said 86 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 5: what's my action? Meaning here's a three page dialogue seeing 87 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 5: what do I want? I have to be as an actor? 88 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 5: One has to be able to express that in some covenant. 89 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 5: You know, uh, I want to seduce, to escape, to 90 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 5: leave the room, to go into the room, whatever but 91 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 5: that's what it is, and that's not the activity. 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 3: It's what you what you really want. 93 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 5: Sometimes it's sub in the subtext that's not but that's 94 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 5: what you's driving the whole sin. So for me, it's 95 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 5: it's very it's very much it's very much a similar 96 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 5: similar process. 97 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: And what I want is. 98 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 5: For the character of Lara to be so alive that 99 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 5: you are in the room with a strong personality, okay, 100 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 5: and and and she's occupying the totality of herself and 101 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 5: the space in the room meaning meaning. And then I 102 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 5: secondly is that I think people are way complex and 103 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 5: so you'll never quite reach it. But the aspiration is 104 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 5: that is to imbue the character, meaning imbue the actor 105 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 5: with the same complexity that you have in your life. 106 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 5: As complex as your life is, that's how complex this 107 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 5: character is supposed to be. And that's what you try 108 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 5: to get to. You never quite will get there, right, 109 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 5: but that's what you drive for. And so then that 110 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 5: means working with with like Penelope or with Adam or 111 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 5: Daniel Dan Lewis or anybody. It's how do you build 112 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 5: that character? And that begins way before rehearsals. It's not 113 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 5: on the set with Enzo. Enzo's passion the engine that 114 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 5: makes him go. If you said you will only allow 115 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 5: to identify one component, you can't identify half a dozen one. 116 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 3: It's said he's a race car driver. 117 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 5: He has that romantic drive, and so that's an Enzo 118 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 5: in nineteen twenty two started racing, and he had had 119 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 5: the ambition to be a race car driver as somebody 120 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 5: who was totally bereft. His father and brother had died, 121 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 5: he had no money, he had a spotty education. He 122 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 5: just got turned down for a job at Fiat and 123 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 5: decided on on a bench at a park in a 124 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 5: cold rain, in a moment of despair, he asked himself, 125 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 5: who shall I be in this world? Which is completely 126 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 5: crazy because the answer is depressed. Understand he at that moment, 127 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 5: you know, he believed that transcendence and the kind of 128 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 5: static class hierarchies of Italy and that period was actually possible. 129 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 5: And he picked the most romantic that you could possibly 130 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 5: be at the moment in time, his car driver. And 131 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 5: that's that that impulses that drive. So then it becomes 132 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 5: that now acquiring along the way, there's a whole host 133 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 5: of cultural characteristics. What's his attitude towards women? What's his 134 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 5: attitude towards courtship? What is where is he he's irreverent? 135 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 5: A reverent against what? Because if you don't acknowledge that 136 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 5: there is an authority structure, be it the Catholic Church 137 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 5: or in Italy in the nineteen fifties to continue Communist party, 138 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 5: then the characteristics of how you're irreverent so enough to 139 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 5: make the pope weep said, okay, you know he built, 140 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 5: he did build, the Pope will built right, pulp drug 141 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 5: rid So I mean it's it's but there's always with 142 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 5: with that, you know, there's a tongue in sha. 143 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 144 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 5: Then of course there's all the physical stuff, which which 145 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 5: is aim six craft, you know at being an actor, 146 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 5: the walk, the posture, the weight, what he breathes, the 147 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 5: way he you know, people people walk into a strange room, 148 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 5: they do they look at different things. Right, if you're 149 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 5: a thief, when you walk in a room, the first 150 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 5: thing you look at is worth the excerpt. 151 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: You know, let's talking about the race car seats. I mean, 152 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: you love cars, and I can't believe you. 153 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: Did that race? 154 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 4: Like what was that? 155 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: When did you do that? 156 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 4: When you the uh? 157 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 5: Starting probably in the middle nineties to about two thousand 158 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 5: and four, two thousand and five. 159 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 1: Are you the coolest guy on the planet? 160 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 5: And off of the course kind of planet started when 161 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 5: that's about six or seven years old. 162 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 3: That's what it takes. 163 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: How was that? 164 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: How was your experience doing that race? 165 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: I mean racing or when I or I made or 166 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: shooting the. 167 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: Both, because you know you have like what an interesting 168 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 2: sort of you actually have you know you experienced it, 169 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: so you can actually bring that to well. 170 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 5: You know, as a director, like an actor, you if 171 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 5: you experience a if I one practice session, we're racing 172 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 5: at Rhode Atlanta, and I think on a Saturday, I 173 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 5: did like seventy five layups and once there's there's there's 174 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 5: three chicaanes in a row as you approached the back 175 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 5: stretch of Rote Atlanta, and once I absolutely nailed it 176 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 5: as it filmed. As as a filmmaker, if I do something, 177 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 5: if I experience it once, I can project to what 178 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 5: it's like. 179 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 3: Okay, this is what it's supposed to feel like. 180 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 5: I get it, you know, myself in the car unified, 181 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 5: it's a hard it's a kind of a harmonic. 182 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 3: Organism. Wall one. I'm just thinking a thing and it's 183 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 3: half the name. Yeah, it doesn't feel fast, but. 184 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 5: My laptime is way down or so much faster, but 185 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 5: the whole lamp was smooth. So you do one you 186 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 5: do if you don't want to kind of get what 187 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 5: it's supposed to be. Like I never got really good 188 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 5: enough because I'd kind I'd be doing two three races 189 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 5: and then there'd be a film. So I go to 190 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 5: a film and then the year goes by they come 191 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 5: back to it, which is not how you do it. 192 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: I feel like you know, you're making me think of 193 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: like when new like Paul Newman and Steve McQueen, like 194 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: one you kind of get once you get the taste 195 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: of it, it gets in your blood. 196 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, welcome back to table for two. 197 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: If you pulled up a chair, we're having lunch with 198 00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: Michael Mann, one of Hollywood's biggest, biggest directors and a 199 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 2: director who's worked with some of the biggest stars in Hollywood. 200 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 2: Man's movies feature psychological depth and realism, and the characters 201 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: have truly intricate backstories. How does he manage to pull 202 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 2: the best performances out of so many amazing actors? The 203 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: litany of actors that you have in your film. I 204 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: mean you're you know, this is the master this is 205 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: the masterclass. I mean we have I'm just gonna name 206 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 2: for you know again, people listening, Michael's director, Jamie Fox, 207 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: Leo DiCaprio, char Lee's, Jason, Johnny Depp, Christian Bale, Dustin Hoffman, 208 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: James Comm Daniel d Lewis de Niro, Kilmer, Russell Crowe, 209 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: Christopher Plumer, Will Smith, Tom Crisse. 210 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: You're like, these are. 211 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: The most iconic actors out there, So, like, one, do 212 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: you when you're going into a project and you're like, Okay, 213 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: this is Tom Cruise, do. 214 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: You pivot in a way just like you have a 215 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: very clearly a. 216 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: Very special talent in working with actors and any things 217 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: from them. 218 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: Do you pivot based on their personalities, who they are, 219 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: what you know of their previous work? 220 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 4: Like, how do you do it? How do you approach? Yeah? 221 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: How do you? 222 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 5: First of all, it's the deep dive into doing something 223 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 5: that hasn't been done before, you know, I think people 224 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 5: are always best when they're somewhat of a frontier and 225 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 5: the deep dive is is an adventure and and. 226 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: Why not? I wouldn't I couldn't imagine wanting to do 227 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 3: it any other way. 228 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 5: So first of all, someone's wanting to want to come 229 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 5: along on that, and then and then we really do 230 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 5: do that. So then it's it's so we're talking about 231 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 5: Tom and you know he was you know, three months 232 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 5: of training. I mean, uh, the of having a kind 233 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 5: of where's the socioposity of that character come from? You know, 234 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 5: who are these guys? 235 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 3: For real? What are this? What are the real skill sets? 236 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 5: And the first thing for me is it's always really 237 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 5: important is that I want the actor to be able 238 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 5: to do what his character does so thoroughly of such 239 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 5: expertise that when he's doing it in the film, he's 240 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 5: not thinking about it. 241 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: It's a reflex. He just is that good. 242 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 5: So that means a lot of time out of the 243 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 5: Melle County Sheriffs ranges with you know a lot of 244 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 5: safety and supervision and another thing of course, but but you know, 245 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 5: actually getting that good and then a lot of I 246 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 5: don't know, the second a d maybe he have the 247 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 5: second ad who in pre production went to the gym Monday, 248 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 5: Wednesday and Friday. On one Wednesday, at seven am, he's 249 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 5: leaving the gym. He's going his car he pops the trunk, 250 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 5: it feels a hand on his shoulder. There's a post 251 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 5: that just got stuck on his back. He turns around. 252 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 5: It's Tom who says you're dead. Because unbeknowned this guy 253 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 5: Tom had been tailing for an entire week. 254 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: We got his behavioral patterns. We know where we parked 255 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 3: this car. 256 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 5: This is where to do it because there's one way 257 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 5: and there's three exits out right, this is this is 258 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 5: the place, and you know, and then so so and 259 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 5: then it induces a certain kind of attitude and how 260 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 5: the sollisism of that character. So you know, there's a 261 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 5: lot of training that you know that goes on a lot. 262 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 3: Of content with with people. 263 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 5: In this case, a lot of it had to do 264 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 5: with a friend of mine who used to be in 265 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 5: charge of close quarter combat training for the British essay. Yes, 266 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 5: and there's been involved in so many different things. 267 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me. 268 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: You know, I think, you know, like you know the 269 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: so you know, if we go to heap and know 270 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: it's now and I rewatched it an anticipation of our lunch. 271 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: It's such a great movie. It's nineteen ninety five. It 272 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: stands attests of time. But like I thought to myself, 273 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: here's de Niro and Baccino, like two actors, next level actors. 274 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: It's this incredible action film. It's it's detective, it's bad guy. 275 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: It's all these complet complex things. And you don't choose, 276 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 2: you know, action heroes. You choose two guys actors that 277 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: are like okay, you know, you don't choose as Stallone 278 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: or Schwarzenegger, who are going to be a cop. What 279 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: spoke to you about these two guys saying okay, because 280 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 2: because these are smart? 281 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 3: Well, two things. One one is one is you know 282 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: we're talking. 283 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 5: About physical training and of things that you do. That's 284 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 5: just the surface of of acquiring character. I direct from 285 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 5: the inside out, so I think of it from the 286 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 5: inside out. So most of the directions, particularly on the set, 287 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 5: wants to who the who you are as an actor 288 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 5: and being grounded than that and having the skills that 289 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 5: you have. That's just the activity, that's not really the essences. 290 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 5: The essence is these circumstances are making you feel a 291 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 5: certain way. On said is because of who you are, 292 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 5: because we. 293 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: Got the but who you who you are? 294 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 5: We acquired that weeks of weeks and weeks ago, right, 295 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 5: they make you feel a certain way. So here's the circumstances, 296 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 5: and then a stimulum, Uh, the stimulus is coming out, 297 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 5: and which could be a line of dialogue or somebody 298 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 5: entering a room. And then the reaction I'm always looking 299 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 5: for is spontaneous. And so it's about programming and choreographing 300 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 5: to create a situation in which the actor of being 301 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 5: a certain character has a spontaneous reaction. And then with 302 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 5: the spontaneous reaction isn't working for the actor or me, 303 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 5: we change the circumstances. 304 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 3: You're always trying to get to. 305 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 5: The new and the cosmic opposite of be happy to 306 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 5: be said, the direct exactly the opposite, the polar opposite 307 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 5: of that from the inside out. 308 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 3: So to me, he is a drama. It's not. 309 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 5: It's not a genre. In genre means I maybe genre 310 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 5: is something I used to make dramas. 311 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 3: I don't know. But to me, it's a drama. And 312 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 3: and I know what what de Niro's character. 313 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 5: Was doing when he was enforced to care of the 314 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 5: fourth teenth foster family and hand me down clothes, being 315 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 5: ostracized by other eleven year olds, but making him angry 316 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 5: and anger makes you violence, and he was starting down 317 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 5: the road to juvie and gradiator academies and then hits 318 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 5: the streets working street crime is a very valuable component 319 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 5: because he's probably he has a very he has a 320 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 5: very strong aggressive ego, and he has in his self 321 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 5: esteem as rock bottom, which means he doesn't care. 322 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: About his body what happens to him. 323 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 5: And he's just aggressive, right, and that makes him dangerous 324 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 5: and violent, and that's where that's who he is when 325 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 5: he's seventeen eighteen nineteen, and now he starts to get educated, 326 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 5: you know, when he starts hitting a library to try 327 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 5: to figure it out. I killed myself or not because 328 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 5: I'm doing a lot of time at a time when 329 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 5: there are programs, And now he starts reading. And so 330 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 5: my experience when I was in fulsome prison, shooting cracle 331 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 5: a mile. 332 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 3: But the way back when how. 333 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 5: How how smart and how educated and well read a 334 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 5: lot of these guys were, and they were requiring knowledge 335 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 5: out of necessity. I want to understand my circumstances. I 336 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 5: want to understand my life. I'm doing, uh, you know 337 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 5: a lot of time, how do I How should I 338 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 5: view this? 339 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 3: Should I do this time? 340 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 5: Should I just be engaged in fantasy escapes, prison gangs 341 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 5: or should I you know? 342 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 3: Or the and so you know. 343 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 5: So that's the autodidactic uh evolution of Neil McCauley, who's 344 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 5: arrived at a state of place with no attachments and 345 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 5: a very precise program about how to succeed in what 346 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 5: he's doing. 347 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 3: When he deviates for that. 348 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 5: Program because of Edie and he's successful being spontaneous, he loses. 349 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 3: All his navigational ability. He's like with out a rudder. 350 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 5: And then he goes for Wingrow, which is something he'd 351 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 5: never allow himself to be seduced. 352 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 3: And at the beginning of the film, right right, and 353 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 3: so then it becomes a story, you know. 354 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 5: And then there was a big challenge in that film 355 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 5: to me, was so exciting about it is to have 356 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 5: everybody has everybody's three dimensional, Every character has a life. 357 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 5: Everybody character has things going on in their life and 358 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 5: rotating amongst all of them as it drives. And it 359 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 5: is dialectic to just the two guys Alan Bob, who 360 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 5: are unique in the sense that both of them are 361 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 5: totally self aware. There's no self deception, right, They're the 362 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 5: only two people like that. 363 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 7: Within they made up universe of key. 364 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 2: So when you're then looking at a character, you're looking 365 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: you know, you get the script or you write the 366 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: script or you see you're now doing the work. 367 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: You Michael Mann, you're going back. It's what makes your. 368 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 4: Movies so incredibly riveting. 369 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: I now understand that all the sub that we don't 370 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 2: know the fact that okay, you know, he was fourteen 371 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: years old and this is what was happening in his 372 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 2: life that and this is what happened when he was 373 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 2: in prison, and like, we don't know that, but that's 374 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 2: vital to you. 375 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: Bet it's vital. 376 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: I mean, has it been challenging sometimes to sit with 377 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: I mean you you are working with, you know, incredible 378 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 2: people when they're not quite understanding if there's a difference 379 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: of saying like oh okay, like or it sounds like 380 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: there's also a spontaneity effect where you you allow the 381 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: room for like okay, well let's you know, how much 382 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: do you give them when you say, okay, this is 383 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 2: the backstory. 384 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 5: Of oh all the backstories we go through reverendent, but 385 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 5: we do for little stuff. I mean, Bob and I 386 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 5: went to Falsome and we're walking on we're in the 387 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 5: yard you know, because this is where he spent like 388 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 5: this formative years of his life. Or some guy comes 389 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 5: up to us kind of a straw straw hat and 390 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 5: he said, hey, Mike, how you doing? And I said, okay, 391 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 5: how are you? And it took me a minute to 392 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 5: recognize this guy was a convict. So how are you 393 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 5: always it good? So my kids are okay, wasn't sheena? 394 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 5: Like one of my kids is at usc or something? 395 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 5: Wasn't cheto? 396 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 3: Was something else? 397 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 5: I don't And he's talking to me like we had 398 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 5: seen each other two months ago. So this is nineteen 399 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 5: ninety four. I saw this guy and knew this guy 400 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 5: in nineteen seventy nine. He was in prison, he was 401 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 5: in folsome like did a juacho mile? 402 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 4: Okay? And and what's so you haven't seen him since 403 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 4: I have seen since? 404 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 5: And what's so bizarre about it is how is this 405 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 5: guy processing time? 406 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, fascinating man. 407 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 408 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 3: And because you fifteen years of going by? 409 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I realized that, and I talked about that's 410 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 5: I realized that so much is uneventful. So all the 411 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 5: uneventful days into your collapse, and the only thing that 412 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 5: you recall the days in which there was an event. 413 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 5: So it's not three hundred and sixty five days a year. 414 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 5: It maybe seven, eight, nineteen, whatever it is, And so 415 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 5: time is processed in a different way. 416 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: They just disappear. 417 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 2: He's picking up where he left off. Yeah, they disappeared 418 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: and say, hey, Michael, how you doing. Like it's like 419 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 2: like you said so yesterday. 420 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 4: This is wild. 421 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: And I think the complexities of what you bring to 422 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: the characters. 423 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 4: In your movies just you see it. You see it 424 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 4: in the actors. 425 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: That's a that's a big bit. 426 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 3: That's the actionable part of it. That's what it's there 427 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 3: to be. It informs so many things. 428 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 5: The it's not good for a podcast that you're listening to, 429 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 5: but you see somebody picks up a glass of water 430 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 5: like this, Yeah, and folsom. 431 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 3: You pick it up like this when he's clear something 432 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 3: about exactly when neural takes the the when. 433 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 5: He has sucks at night the first time and he leaves, 434 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 5: he's wrapped the napkin around the glass. They that's because 435 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 5: it's absolutely habitual that you express yourself in the microcosm 436 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 5: of living in a small cell with few material objects, 437 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 5: and so you do things like use paper to wrap 438 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 5: around flash the glass to pick up the condensation. I 439 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 5: mean it was a kind of precision. Thing is absolutely 440 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 5: pushing habits. So you're picking up all these things, I mean, 441 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 5: all this. 442 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: Stuff, and it's all in those details that you bring 443 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: that you know are so fascinating because I remember seeing 444 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: him put the glass down and not quite understanding what. 445 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: But there was also a compassion to it. 446 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 5: I felt there's both a compassions of generosity, compassion, and 447 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 5: something rangely precise about you know, the way he's folded 448 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 5: a spiece of paper. 449 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 3: Right. And these anomalies are okay because of their current life. 450 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 5: So if your audience and you're seeing anomalies that have 451 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 5: to have to be authentic. 452 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 3: They can't be gratuitious. We're seeing these anomalies show up. 453 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 5: I mean, why is there a burning car when Jeffrey Whygan, 454 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 5: an insider is coming off the freeway and may be arrested? 455 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 3: The answers I don't know. 456 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 4: But it felt like a really great thing to do. 457 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 8: So it made some kind of subconscious sense, you know, 458 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 8: of all, you've done so many movies and you've done 459 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 8: incredible television. 460 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: Was that a game changer? Was that like, oh this 461 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: is okay, this is. 462 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 5: This is not not any I mean each one, not really, 463 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 5: I mean it was. I mean last Ohican's Hawkeye and 464 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 5: and his step follower and step brother. 465 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: Are our face with the imminent annihilation. 466 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 5: Of who they are, of who these people are, and 467 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 5: and they're also looking at what the progress, which is 468 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 5: the frontier, you know, as as that zone between where 469 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 5: we are and where we're gonna be, and how that 470 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 5: inform uh those issues informed that character. You know, he 471 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 5: was this large, quantitative you know uh fuglac things, which 472 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 5: best I loved about it. What you're really asking is, 473 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 5: you know, why do I do it? Well, that's os 474 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 5: They're all kinds of different and by the time I 475 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 5: got done doing that and I LEI, which had a 476 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 5: whole different but they're all there, all very large scale 477 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 5: narratives and physically they're they're big pictures too, but the. 478 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 3: Narratives are all very large scale. 479 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 5: So then that's why Collateral was so appealing to me, 480 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 5: because it took place in one night, and it's also 481 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 5: you know, totally refractive. Each character becomes the agent of 482 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 5: the other characters realizations. 483 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 2: So he too, we're talking about he too here or 484 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: maybe and you know, you know, when you look at 485 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 2: something like He Too, and you look about the casting 486 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: of He Too. 487 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 4: Like, are you in development of sort of like I'm 488 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 4: writing the screenplayer right now? 489 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: Wow? 490 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 4: So is it like? 491 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 5: And it comes from having so much background and then 492 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 5: projecting where some of these lives go. I had to 493 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 5: figure out is a device a story that can keep 494 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 5: the end of it and the beginning of it. There's 495 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 5: a prequel and a sequel starts eighty eight. It jumps 496 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 5: over the movie. It actually starts on the first day 497 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 5: after the end of the movie with val Calm. We're 498 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 5: trying to get out of Laka and he's half delirious 499 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 5: and wounded and half delirious. And then but then it 500 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 5: goes back to nineteen eighty eight and they're very different 501 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 5: people because they are They're not the people they are 502 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 5: in the movie. It's the events of eighty eight that 503 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 5: made them into the people that they are in the movie. Wait, 504 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 5: so de Nuro de Niro character Neil McCauley is deep 505 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 5: into a relationship with a woman. He has her stepdaughter, 506 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 5: he has all these attachments. Wow, and you know, and 507 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 5: then what happens with you know in two thousand and 508 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 5: tex Us into a whole different worlds of right, transnational 509 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 5: organized crime and shared a less stay was a pre 510 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 5: trade zone in South America and Southeast Asia, and it moves. 511 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: I love it, do you. I didn't. 512 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: I didn't realize A He Too was going to be 513 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 2: a prequel sort of bring you into sort of that 514 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 2: where they all came from, which is so fascinating, and 515 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: it's like, so such an opportunity. Do you, dude, once 516 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: you kind of make an announcement like that, but do 517 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 2: you just have litany of the crane by the crops 518 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: saying think of me, think of me, think of me. 519 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: Do you actually write with anyone in mind to say, okay, 520 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: you know what this is? 521 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 4: This actor? 522 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: You know, because now you're also there with He Too. 523 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: It sounds like there's a since it's de Niro and 524 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: Pacino early that's forming potentially a casting or a thought process. 525 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 3: I don't know. I can't. I can't. 526 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 5: I mean, there's here's a couple of conversations with some people, 527 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 5: but I can't really completely chaost until the screenplay is right. 528 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: Right. 529 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 3: So, but the benefit here is that the book did 530 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 3: extremely well. 531 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 5: When the book came out, you know, and the number 532 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 5: one New York times best solo, which is totally bizarre 533 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 5: for Epithets that I'd been. 534 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 3: Writing a book period. That's secondly that it would actually 535 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: do well. 536 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on table for two. So many 537 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 2: of the characters in Michael Mann's films feel like they 538 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 2: could exist in the real world, and I'm interested to 539 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: know if he draws inspiration from the people he meets 540 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 2: in his day to day life. Is having dinner with 541 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: you maybe one of the most interesting things for people. 542 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: I mean, like, because you know, you seem like you're 543 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 2: just so interested in human behavior and human stories and 544 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: people's stories. Do you often find yourself just connecting with people? 545 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 2: And I think having dinner with you would be like 546 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: the most amazing thing because you would just be like, 547 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: if there's eight people at the table, you, I think, 548 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 2: in your mind even be like kind of trying to 549 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 2: understand where they came from. 550 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 5: It's actually worse than that, because I actually when I 551 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 5: see somebody who's you know, is dressed or presenting themselves 552 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 5: extreme manner, I'm immediately thinking, if I have to have 553 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 5: a character like that, how do I get them to 554 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 5: be extreme? Oh, that's a good example. I'm constantly looking 555 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 5: at people like you never, you know, I mean that 556 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 5: is my wife is usually we've been married for four 557 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 5: to nine years, so she's used to this by now. 558 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 5: You know, our history is related to let's see that 559 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 5: was between this movie and that movie. Right the bas 560 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 5: are all like, oh yeah, that's when we're last the Mohicans, 561 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 5: you know, And so constantly I think, if I had 562 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 5: to career create a scene in a noisy restaurant with 563 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 5: strange looking people, you know. 564 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: This is this isn't that person. 565 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 2: One of the things that you do brilliantly and you've 566 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 2: made such like an effect, is you know, the music 567 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 2: you bring into your films, the cultural phenomenon of your films. 568 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: You know, I know Miami Vice. You know, you made 569 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: film and Miami Vice. 570 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: You also the television series that you know that you 571 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 2: set a tone of a whole decade. You know, that's 572 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 2: very interesting. And you also made TTV more like feature 573 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: which I mean the car races that you were doing 574 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 2: on the show, all that stuff way before, because you 575 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: know that's something that happens now, but you did it 576 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 2: way before. Like what did you look at TV as 577 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: a medium? And you know, going back to the listener, 578 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 2: you know Vegas, which I grew up. I could tell 579 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: you the Wednesday night lineup. It was Charlie eight is Enough, 580 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: Charlie's Angels Vegas, Like I remember that. I was watching those, 581 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: you know, that was my favorite night of television until 582 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 2: I was sent like, get your ass in bed, you know, 583 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 2: your school the next day after Vegas at eleven o'clock. 584 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: Then were you surprised by that? 585 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 2: But it's sort of like what happened that sort of 586 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: explosion with Donaldson. 587 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 3: I wasn't surprised at all. 588 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 5: In fact, there was a dinner that we had the 589 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 5: chast but back before the piloteer, and there with the 590 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 5: whole cast, picked. 591 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 3: Dinner like twenty people. 592 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 5: And I said to him and said, you don't understand 593 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 5: that after tomorrow night, your life's gonna be different. 594 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 3: Nobody believed me. 595 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 4: And the reason is. 596 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 5: Because where as Tony Yorko wrote such a great script, 597 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 5: a two hour pilot for it was called Gold Coaster. 598 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 5: Originally I changed it to Miami Vice, but Tony created 599 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 5: the show. He wrote, he wrote it. It was such 600 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 5: a great idea, and you know, and then everything kind 601 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 5: of flows from that. You know, the world was amount 602 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 5: of Miami those days was beige the higher South Beach beige. 603 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 5: It's like there's some kind of World War ship plus 604 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 5: glut of tan paint it splighting into ul city bage. 605 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 4: So really horrible. 606 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: So and people and walkers and. 607 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 5: And so you know, I did some research as to 608 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 5: what it looks like in the in the twenties and thirties, 609 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 5: you know, and then that's what all these viper pastels. 610 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 2: So we changed it all back to the you created 611 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 2: South Beach. I mean, you created the whole thing that 612 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: continued on to Yeah, and some of the. 613 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 5: Hotels that were now well no one had like you know, 614 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 5: bar doors and renting rooms by the hour and all 615 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 5: that stuff. 616 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: That did you when you were casting Don Johnson, did 617 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 2: you say this is this is the guy. I mean, 618 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 2: you said this is the guy that like what was 619 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: it about don? 620 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 5: You know that you said he had a certain whiskey 621 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 5: voice and a certain mentalents re pepperment that that was 622 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 5: just there was it was perfect for that for that character. 623 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 5: And he had he hadn't really landed on that a 624 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 5: thing that really walked and this this was and he 625 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 5: was just perfect for the guy. I mean, the same 626 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 5: time thing with Philip Michael Thomas, two of that and 627 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 5: then almost midway through the first season. It's because I 628 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 5: wanted I wanted the shows jesuit with a lowercase of jay. 629 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 5: I wanted a character who was represented the analogy. To me, 630 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 5: what I liked about the show was that it was 631 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 5: anti disco, right, Okay, this was I hated. 632 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 3: This you did? 633 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean the music wasn't bad. 634 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: It is very sexy. 635 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 3: It was good music, but I hated so to me 636 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,399 Speaker 3: it was you know, it was like you know, rock 637 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 3: and roll, you know, right, just like it was. 638 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: Weaving those cards was all rock, no adult. 639 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 5: I wanted somebody who had a sense of existential, sense 640 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 5: of authenticity, responsibility for your actions, and that. 641 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 3: Became the almost yeah, almost his character. 642 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,479 Speaker 1: I mean skinny black though, yeah, the skin please. 643 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 2: You created the whole look of my pastel suits with 644 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 2: T shirts underneath it, you know, like the whole color scheme. 645 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: You changed what the colors men wore. 646 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 2: How much time do you spend thinking about like the 647 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 2: I mean even the music, the sounds, you know, all 648 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 2: of that coming in big time? 649 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? 650 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 5: To me, I I wanted, I like to have the 651 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 5: music and pre production, yeah, because sometimes if you could 652 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 5: find the right fish of music, it becomes a kind 653 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 5: of a poetic modul or of oh yeah, here's how 654 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 5: it's supposed to feel, so that when you find yourself 655 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 5: on a Tuesday lost, like wait in. 656 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: A minute, what am I doing here? Why is this 657 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 3: the way that should go? 658 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 4: This way? 659 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 3: That direction? 660 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 5: I could's piece of music and say, oh yeah, this 661 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 5: is how I'm supposed to This is how this scene's 662 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 5: supposed to make me fail. You know. 663 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 2: So the music is really important, even you know, heat 664 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 2: the music was like it's just gripping of all this, 665 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 2: Like this posse of human beings that you've worked with, 666 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 2: that you have directed that you have to make really 667 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 2: brought out these incredible performances. Was there anyone that you 668 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 2: know walking in that you were like, Okay, I'm either 669 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: super nervous about it, or I'm a little hesitant about it. 670 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: Or like, guy, I'm like, wow, this is I don't 671 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: know what's going to happen here. 672 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 5: You know, usually before I'm going to work with de 673 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 5: Niro or or Petrino, I'm you know, obviously, I know 674 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 5: that I have to there there, I know where they are. 675 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 5: I know I have my game has got to be 676 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 5: to be at the top of my game. Yeah, I 677 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 5: have to know absolutely everything. And I think that when 678 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 5: you're totally prepared and you know what everything, that liberates 679 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 5: you to also be improvisational, to be spontaneous. You could 680 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,240 Speaker 5: do it off the confidence of having a really solid, 681 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 5: really solid platform. And then it's it's, uh, you know, 682 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 5: it's my responsibility. I view it to be able to 683 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 5: talk to that actor in the language work that's that 684 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 5: he uses about exacting process, so there is no school 685 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 5: in the Fox. I would be directing Bail in a 686 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 5: different way that I'd be directing Alibab or yeah, or 687 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 5: or or or animal. You know, Penelope the one actor 688 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 5: who I can say I was absolute sweetheart, but I 689 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 5: was was very distant, not that just distant in a 690 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 5: good way because he was so self contained, which was 691 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 5: John Voight. 692 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 3: And I'm talking about John Voyd, you know, prior to 693 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 3: ninety five. 694 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 5: I'm talking about in the late eighties, early nineties, and 695 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,959 Speaker 5: of absolutely the same stature as Ala, Bob or John. 696 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 5: And one of the one about one of the one 697 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 5: of the real thrills of working on Heat is that 698 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 5: we became like an ensemble company. So Valve would show 699 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 5: up for a scene he wasn't in to see how 700 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 5: Bob was going to do something or Al's isn't so? 701 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 5: And I'd known John and he would. We used to 702 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 5: We've met a couple of times for coffee at Duke's 703 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 5: when Dukes was out of Santa Michael Boulevard, and you know, 704 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 5: and there was always something I'll steer about him. Yeah, 705 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 5: and you know, and then the absolutely dreamed to work 706 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 5: with and then we worked again as as he hilarious. 707 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 5: Was the most difficult times I had was on the 708 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 5: set of Ali with with with John as Howard Cassell, 709 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 5: because after four hours of makeup, he was Howard Coselle NonStop. 710 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 3: And then he had you know, Jamie Fox and Will Smith. Ye. 711 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 5: Once we're setting up lighting, these guys are talking to 712 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 5: twenty five hundred extras and it becomes, you know, all kind. 713 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 4: Of cabaret and it stups. 714 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 3: And I never had a character, and so it was hilarious. 715 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 3: So everybody's standing around, I'm trying twenty minutes. 716 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 4: Come on, I've got to like you. 717 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: Is great. 718 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed my lunch with Michael Mann today, and 719 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 2: I hope you have to. In addition to being an 720 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 2: amazing director, he has a ton of fascinating tales. And 721 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 2: I wonder, given his lengthy and illustrious career, what lessons 722 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 2: has he learned along the way. 723 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: Do you have any advice that. 724 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 2: Was given to you in your life that changed your 725 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 2: life when it came to movies and filmmaking, or you know, 726 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 2: early on, or advice that you would give because he's 727 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 2: changed so much, the business changed so much. 728 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 3: I had a man who was a the Tripper guy 729 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 3: named bab Luwan, and he was. 730 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 5: He was running the writing on a on the show 731 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 5: I was about to go forward, and he read a 732 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 5: script I wrote, and he said, his dialogue is really great, 733 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 5: and you would not know what the story was if 734 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 5: it ran you over. 735 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 4: So I'm gonna teach you you know the story is, 736 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 4: you know. 737 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 5: And he kind of became a mentor for me in 738 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 5: writing about story structure. The show was Starskin Hutch and 739 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 5: that I wrote, Uh. Bill Blynn wrote the pilot, But 740 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 5: then the pilot aired and in a year later the 741 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 5: episodes came on. 742 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 3: So I wound up writing the first four or five 743 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 3: of the of the of the opening season as it 744 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 3: turned out. 745 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 5: But but he really absolutely mentored me and a very 746 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 5: formalist approach the story the story and the and again 747 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 5: the rigid kind of authenticity that's really required to write 748 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 5: the story structure, and you can't indulge yourself in all 749 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 5: the disciplines. 750 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 2: Stark another fan favorite of mine growing up. I mean, 751 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 2: those were those were all and they all were mixed 752 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 2: with you know, the crime, solving it humor, Huggy Bear. 753 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 2: You know, you had all these characters that were very 754 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 2: kind of complex too, like you know, and as you know. 755 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 5: There's also a cigarette I discovered I wrote in the 756 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 5: line of dialogue they drive a truck through the front 757 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 5: window of a store. And then I was watching the 758 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 5: episode and they drove a truck to the front window. 759 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 3: Of a store. Because I wrote it, I realized I 760 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 3: could write this stuff and people are. 761 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 5: Going to go do it. 762 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 3: There's cool. So a young writer, you know, in the 763 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 3: early Stemmaries, this was like a real revelation. 764 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 2: You were an amazing filmmaker and having lunch with you 765 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 2: on Table for two is an honor, sir, Thank you 766 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 2: for joining me today. 767 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 4: Pleasure. 768 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: Everyone who's pulled up at go Sie Ferrari and mister Man, 769 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: thank you so much. 770 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 3: Thank you really pleasure. 771 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,399 Speaker 2: Table for two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio 772 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 2: seven three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are 773 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 2: Bruce Bosi and Nathan King. Our supervising producer and editor 774 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 2: is Dylan Fagan. Table for two is researched and written 775 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 2: by Jack Sullivan. Our sound engineers are Jess Crainich, Evan 776 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 2: Taylor and Jesse Funk. Our music supervisor is Randall Poster. 777 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 2: Our talent booking is done by Jane Sark. Table for 778 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 2: two Social media manager is Gracie Wiener. Special thanks to 779 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 2: Amy Sugarman, Uni Sharer, Kevin y Vane, Bobby Bauer, Alison Kanter, Graber, 780 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,240 Speaker 2: Barbara Jen, Jeff Klein, and the staff at The Tower 781 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 2: Bar in a world famous Sunset Tower hotel in Hollywood. 782 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, 783 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.