Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 2: Cowboys Let's go. Are you ready for a break?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Are you ready for a break?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Ready for a break? Yeah, and so much for that.
Speaker 4: It's time for the Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 4: Were with Mbar Garcia, Brian brought Us, Nick Harris and
Speaker 4: Derek Eagleton.
Speaker 5: It is Monday, December second, twenty twenty four, Season twenty,
Speaker 5: episode number seventy seven. Welcome the latest edition.
Speaker 2: All the Break.
Speaker 5: We are life from SWBC Mortgage Studios.
Speaker 2: At the Start.
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Speaker 2: How's Everybody's Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3: Two words?
Speaker 6: Derek Hookham, There we go, baby.
Speaker 2: Go, Let's go.
Speaker 5: I haven't been that excited about a game since maybe
Speaker 5: two thousand and five.
Speaker 3: That was Nervers for you?
Speaker 2: Oh man, that was pretty nice.
Speaker 3: Id you like that block punt?
Speaker 2: There are so many moments in that game.
Speaker 3: You sweat those games more than Cowboy games, yes, not
Speaker 3: even close.
Speaker 2: And part of it is.
Speaker 5: Part of it is this for me is very It's
Speaker 5: it's very because I've worked in this profession. It feels
Speaker 5: like my motives are very different, like and it's and
Speaker 5: I've done it for so long now to where I
Speaker 5: just kind of like some of it.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit numb to.
Speaker 5: But but my my college man, I wear that on
Speaker 5: my sleep.
Speaker 6: I mean, even with the twelve team playoffs, the losses
Speaker 6: still still do mean a lot more than the losses
Speaker 6: in the NFL. So there's there's a lot more on
Speaker 6: the line weekend and week out, I feel like at least.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, as crazy how they decide to think
Speaker 3: it's twelve twelve teams.
Speaker 5: It's gonna be a lot of good games in that
Speaker 5: playoff I'm looking for.
Speaker 6: So I went to Texas and North Texas, so I
Speaker 6: just kind of rep both. If they were to ever
Speaker 6: play each other, I know what would happen, but I'd
Speaker 6: show up in Green.
Speaker 2: So so that means you're in no Texas guy? Yeah, okay, yes, fair,
Speaker 2: as long as you don't say Texas Texas A and M.
Speaker 3: They don't know.
Speaker 7: I Like, I know, money goes to Texas, so I'm
Speaker 7: in Texas going now.
Speaker 5: It's tough how many days a week does Brian have
Speaker 5: L s U gear on three day three at least
Speaker 5: three week.
Speaker 3: I love l SU no doubt you should.
Speaker 2: You should.
Speaker 5: It's a great school and man, when you send your
Speaker 5: money there when you got and by the way, I
Speaker 5: tell people this all the time, college is where you
Speaker 5: have some of the greatest memories of your's if you
Speaker 5: do it right. If you do college right, you should
Speaker 5: have some of the greatest memories of your life outside
Speaker 5: of probably marriage and kids, you should have some of
Speaker 5: the greatest memories of your life in college.
Speaker 2: So of course you're going to root hard for him.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, to your point, though, Bennett, Bennett my
Speaker 3: son has been very fortunate. He's been two. He went
Speaker 3: went to Tuscaloosa, sawt Texas win, and he was on
Speaker 3: his way to Michigan. You know, he messed that up.
Speaker 3: He had it wired to go when he messed up
Speaker 3: the ticket deal, or he'd have been there and then
Speaker 3: to watch a game at Kyle Field for them to
Speaker 3: win there. Yeah, I mean he's on a little bit
Speaker 3: of a role with these the way Texas.
Speaker 2: Send him to the championship.
Speaker 3: He was going to get a hold of you. He
Speaker 3: was going to get a hold of you because he
Speaker 3: has a ticket, but he's got a final on Friday
Speaker 3: and one on Monday. And I think he was going
Speaker 3: to try and get a hold of you seeing if
Speaker 3: you wanted his ticket to Atlanta. It's it's the only one.
Speaker 3: It's only ticket. Now hard on a plane.
Speaker 5: See, my wife is also a Texan, and anytime I go,
Speaker 5: she's kind of like, well what about me?
Speaker 3: I want to go, But he's got a ticket, and
Speaker 3: but he can't. He's got a final on Friday and
Speaker 3: one on Monday. He said, no, I can't make it,
Speaker 3: So nobody said he goes. I sent him your contact information.
Speaker 5: I thought you were saying he was going to call
Speaker 5: me so that I could call some of his professors
Speaker 5: to see if I.
Speaker 2: Was going to say I wasn't that great a student.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how that's gonna work.
Speaker 3: He just he was thinking about somebody that really could
Speaker 3: use a ticket, that would really enjoy the game, and.
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe Clarence Hillah, we know he always wants to
Speaker 5: night game.
Speaker 3: That's why you know you maybe could pull it off. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because it's some Monday night game next week exactly. You know,
Speaker 3: Southwest gets there.
Speaker 2: I know, some people tell him call me, he's got
Speaker 2: your number.
Speaker 6: That might be interested.
Speaker 5: But let's get to some Cowboys football. I actually had to.
Speaker 5: As I started doing my rundown for the show. I
Speaker 5: was having a hard time because I kept thinking, and
Speaker 5: I'm thinking of moments from that game, and I kept
Speaker 5: thinking of Texas moments because I had to kind of
Speaker 5: in my mind, they stopped thinking Texas. Let's think Cowboys.
Speaker 5: Let's start first. Where do you guys, what would you
Speaker 5: guys say is the story of this game? Going back
Speaker 5: to Thursday, Cowboys versus the Giants.
Speaker 6: To Marvin Overshown, he was a game wrecker, not only
Speaker 6: the pick six, but you know, flying to the ball,
Speaker 6: being as active as he was. There's other bright spots
Speaker 6: to look at. But when I look at the story
Speaker 6: of the game, it was a Marvin Overshown day. That's
Speaker 6: that's gonna be the game we look back on something
Speaker 6: that really served as a launch pad for his entire career.
Speaker 6: I think he's playing at a pro Bowl pace. In
Speaker 6: my opinion, I think this is a This is a
Speaker 6: guy who is more than deserving of that. If you
Speaker 6: look at the tackles he's accounting for, you look at
Speaker 6: the impact he makes not only in past rush but
Speaker 6: also in coverage. He does a lot of things. And
Speaker 6: so I'm a big overshown guy, and I think this
Speaker 6: was the overshown game.
Speaker 3: Zach Martin is highly overrated at right guard.
Speaker 5: Him.
Speaker 6: There's a conversation not that it's not I don't think
Speaker 6: it's should.
Speaker 3: Be the starting right guard.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 3: I will say this though, that this offensive line, they
Speaker 3: the Giants, we talked about it in the short time
Speaker 3: we got to visit about them, struggled to defend the run,
Speaker 3: and you know, and and Rico Dabble, they loaded up,
Speaker 3: got some some quality runs. The offensive line I thought
Speaker 3: did a really nice job, especially dealing with their defensive
Speaker 3: tackles with Lawrence and stuff like that. So you know,
Speaker 3: give give give brock Hoffman once again, give give Mike
Speaker 3: Solari and this group a lot of credit. You know,
Speaker 3: that's a difficult front that they're there. That's where the
Speaker 3: really the Giants their strength of their defense. So it's
Speaker 3: those down linemen, and they did a pretty good job
Speaker 3: holding up in protection wise and then being able to
Speaker 3: run the football. And Rico Daddle was was very very
Speaker 3: good in this football game. And so tip of the
Speaker 3: cap to the offensive line and brock Hoffman once again
Speaker 3: filling in and getting the job done.
Speaker 7: See, I I wanted a lot of times to get
Speaker 7: really excited, but then remember it is against the Giants,
Speaker 7: like it was with the Giants. But at the same time,
Speaker 7: you know, it's still a professional football team. So during
Speaker 7: the NFL for a reason too, despite how bad their
Speaker 7: season is going, they're still all athletes and it was
Speaker 7: very encouraging just to see some positive things that the
Speaker 7: offense was was doing. The Cowboys offense and you talk
Speaker 7: about a Rico Dallen, but in the running game, I
Speaker 7: know Derek has been asking and begging for them to
Speaker 7: run the ball, and we saw them being capable of
Speaker 7: doing that. When they do decide to commit to their run,
Speaker 7: they can get it moving. So positive things from the
Speaker 7: from the offense as far as just improvement in general
Speaker 7: and kind of seeing Cooper Rush become kind of the
Speaker 7: same quarterback that he was a couple of years When
Speaker 7: was that?
Speaker 3: What year was that? Two years ago?
Speaker 7: Two years ago? Uh, when Dak was hurt. But also
Speaker 7: the defense again winning and that energy is contagious and
Speaker 7: you're just gonna it's infectious and everybody is gonna bring
Speaker 7: their playing level up. You're looking at a team that
Speaker 7: is not looking to tank the whole tanking's theory and story.
Speaker 7: That was clear when you saw that the Cowboys play
Speaker 7: against the Giants on Thanksgiving. Nobody hears looking to tank
Speaker 7: the season. They're going out there playing and doing what
Speaker 7: they can do the best that they can do with
Speaker 7: what they currently have.
Speaker 6: The only tank going on is Tank Lawrence potentially coming
Speaker 6: back next Monday.
Speaker 3: By the way, I watched him, I was walking. I
Speaker 3: took a peek out the window as I was walking
Speaker 3: over here last week, and I saw him and Britt
Speaker 3: Brown going at it pretty good. And that was incouraging. No, No,
Speaker 3: that wascurging. He was exactly we all go after Britt
Speaker 3: that way, but yelling geez. But the thing about is
Speaker 3: he was he was. They were working hard, and you know,
Speaker 3: and that was encouraging to me. In my mind, I'm thinking, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is getting this getting serious over there, so you know,
Speaker 3: hopefully you can you can get that thing squared back up.
Speaker 3: That'd be very nice.
Speaker 6: I have an apology to make to Osa Digizua. You know,
Speaker 6: we were talking about it last week about guys who
Speaker 6: you know were on expiring contracts that should maybe be
Speaker 6: deserving to coming back next year. He played really well,
Speaker 6: and he played.
Speaker 2: Really thinking whether you would I spend that money?
Speaker 6: I am, I am, I am rethinking that, especially considering
Speaker 6: how much you are going to have to fill this offseason.
Speaker 3: Bring him back him? Okay, you can only afford one
Speaker 3: him or Lewis that should I save that for yesterday
Speaker 3: Tomorrow's Tuesdays.
Speaker 5: So that's a good conversation because I have an answered,
Speaker 5: But I think that's a good conversation.
Speaker 2: I'd love to know other opinions.
Speaker 3: And when just saw the pain in your face. By
Speaker 3: the way, there's like three teams I would love to
Speaker 3: be playing right now. Love to play the Saints, yeah,
Speaker 3: I love to play the Falcons. Love to play the
Speaker 3: forty nine Ers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, See that just shows that just shows you. Now,
Speaker 3: you're not great on offense right now, and that could be,
Speaker 3: but you're you're going the right way on defense. You're
Speaker 3: going the right way with your pressure packages, playing the
Speaker 3: run defense. You know, you get tanked back potentially. You know,
Speaker 3: if you could play the Saints, the Falcons and the
Speaker 3: forty nine Ers again, that might be different story. You're
Speaker 3: not gonna. I don't think different story versus Baltimore or Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: But those are three games early in the year that
Speaker 3: are just going to probably haunt you.
Speaker 5: Although I will tell you this, the one thing about
Speaker 5: Baltimore and the way the Cowboys came back in that game,
Speaker 5: Baltimore's had some issues with it.
Speaker 2: It's all year and that's been an all year thing.
Speaker 5: And if they if Dallas were playing right at that time,
Speaker 5: like the run defense particularly is playing now, I think
Speaker 5: that's a little bit of a different Bob.
Speaker 3: I'm only saying this because of the defense. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying this because of the.
Speaker 2: Offense right exactly.
Speaker 3: And we're going to watch the Cincinnati tape this week
Speaker 3: and we're going to be terrified of their offense. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we're gonna like, oh my gosh. But the one thing
Speaker 3: you have is your defense is playing better your offense.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's coming down. You're having a score on
Speaker 3: pick six's and kickoff returns. You know that that's not
Speaker 3: going to be something you could travel with all the time.
Speaker 3: But man, I mean, if you could play those three
Speaker 3: teams again with the way your defense is playing now
Speaker 3: or playing better that, I think those would be different
Speaker 3: outcomes we do.
Speaker 5: Yep, all right, let's let's talk about the offense from
Speaker 5: this last game against the Giants. Rico Dawdle for in
Speaker 5: my opinion, really the first time all year has shown
Speaker 5: what I thought he really could be. You could say
Speaker 5: the game before this they started seeing shades of it.
Speaker 5: Obviously got him to what is it's eighty seven yards.
Speaker 5: I think he was total in that previous game. But
Speaker 5: this game he runs twenty two carries for one hundred
Speaker 5: and twelve yards, a five point one average, a touchdown.
Speaker 5: It really felt like in this game they were committed
Speaker 5: to him. Now there was a period and I want.
Speaker 3: To see what they run it all the way down
Speaker 3: in three straight passes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean there was like three different there
Speaker 2: were three.
Speaker 3: I stood up and yelled.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was on the table, our end, our end.
Speaker 3: I stood up and went and got something to drink.
Speaker 3: I said enough, Like what are you doing? I'm like, enough,
Speaker 3: enough enough.
Speaker 2: It's just one of those things. I'm like, it's working.
Speaker 5: Yeah, when you find something that's working, keep That forced
Speaker 5: them to stop Trump and so that just that did
Speaker 5: kind of anger me a look, but.
Speaker 2: Overall they committed to the run.
Speaker 5: Well enough for him to have the yards that he did,
Speaker 5: it was the first time in his career he's passed
Speaker 5: one hundred one hundred yards in a game.
Speaker 3: Think about this, the guy had two hundred yards in
Speaker 3: five games. It's not five years in five days. I
Speaker 3: mean he basically he backed to back. I mean you
Speaker 3: you added up. I mean the number of cares. That's
Speaker 3: tough coming off that Commander's game, tough game, running the football,
Speaker 3: physical game. The Giants we mentioned are struggling, but still
Speaker 3: it's an NFL team and you got to you got
Speaker 3: to run the ball. And he had two hundred yards
Speaker 3: and really in five days apart, that shows you a
Speaker 3: lot about that kid where he's at.
Speaker 6: And Tony Pollard always said that the Commanders were the
Speaker 6: most physical challenge for him throughout the season as a
Speaker 6: running back against a divisional opponent. And sure they have
Speaker 6: some different personnel, but the personnel that they've added the
Speaker 6: physical guys too. You talk about Dorn's armstrong and guys
Speaker 6: like that. So yeah, it's impressive for for Reco daubtll.
Speaker 6: I think the big, the big runs were something that
Speaker 6: was so healthy for this offense. I mean, it was
Speaker 6: him breaking off the twenty two yarder and then backing
Speaker 6: it up with a seventeen yard directly after. I mean,
Speaker 6: he's like patient.
Speaker 3: The pass and the pass and the pass. Yeah, after
Speaker 3: talking about I mean.
Speaker 6: And then and then you could to that same point
Speaker 6: the third and two they needed the first down just
Speaker 6: to end the game, and they throw it to Cooks
Speaker 6: and Cooks has to dive to catch it and instead
Speaker 6: granted great catch by Cook's the end of the game.
Speaker 6: Nine times out of ten guys aren't catching that ball,
Speaker 6: and then the Giants are going to get a very
Speaker 6: another possession.
Speaker 3: Two minutes left in the game.
Speaker 6: Man, Then I there's a there's a bigger conversation there.
Speaker 6: But I loved what Rico Dwell did. I loved what
Speaker 6: Rico Dawell did on Thursday. You know how how pessimistic
Speaker 6: I've been about this run game throughout the season. I'm
Speaker 6: starting to get to a point with Dowell now where
Speaker 6: I see, you know, opportunities for him for the future
Speaker 6: after a game like that. Obviously, rock Hoffin bro I
Speaker 6: told you it is.
Speaker 3: Should have listened to me. I told you put Zach
Speaker 3: put Zach Martin on the bench. I didn't say that,
Speaker 3: say that when.
Speaker 7: He comes on the fan. What's that when sach comes
Speaker 7: on the fan.
Speaker 2: That he didn't come on the fan? I give I
Speaker 2: give Eric.
Speaker 3: I used to give Eric Kendricks tips. Did you hear about.
Speaker 2: Brian one day?
Speaker 5: One day when you did it and he was you
Speaker 5: could tell he so wanted you to just stop, and
Speaker 5: you would not stopping, like I'm giving you this tip,
Speaker 5: like I'm going and he was just like, please stop
Speaker 5: giving tips.
Speaker 2: It was hilarious, but I keep doing it.
Speaker 3: I did stop giving him tips. It was it was.
Speaker 3: It was a good tip though, but you know what,
Speaker 3: he wanted me to stop because he knew I was right.
Speaker 6: It was.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 5: And the thing is when you give the tip, if
Speaker 5: somebody he's got it from that opposing to be listening.
Speaker 5: Now they know, oh he's clued in on this tip,
Speaker 5: maybe we ought to do something about So.
Speaker 6: It was like game related.
Speaker 2: Brian was basically scouting scouting. Yeah, he was giving him.
Speaker 3: I was giving a sky go listen when you see this.
Speaker 3: This is what's he goes. Why I watched the film
Speaker 3: and I'm going, okay, but let me just tell you
Speaker 3: what I say.
Speaker 5: And said it before he said it when he said
Speaker 5: I got a tip for you, and he was like,
Speaker 5: you know that, whenever you see this, you could just
Speaker 5: you could just hear in Eric's voice like he just.
Speaker 2: Stop right there, please stop right there.
Speaker 5: And Brian just runs right into it, like here's when
Speaker 5: you see this guy and he does this.
Speaker 2: This is what's coming.
Speaker 3: Just But Eric doesn't like to give you when you
Speaker 3: ask him about like schemes, he doesn't even want to
Speaker 3: talk about. No, he does it. So I end up
Speaker 3: asking questions about what kind of knives you use in
Speaker 3: the kitchen, you.
Speaker 5: Know, what kind of Ryan's advanced scouting on it, scouting
Speaker 5: on he's a big car guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is a big car guy.
Speaker 5: Hey, if you guys happen to see anything when it
Speaker 5: comes to ecodwa, did you see anything different that Dallas
Speaker 5: was doing with the run game, with maybe the kinds
Speaker 5: of plays they were using, the kinds of blocking schemes,
Speaker 5: anything different that would point to why they saw a
Speaker 5: different results or was it simply we committed to it
Speaker 5: and that's the result.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't say this is a major thing that's helped,
Speaker 6: but it allowed one of those two big games that
Speaker 6: I talked about. Jonathan Mingo is a really useful guy.
Speaker 6: As far as getting some space outside, you talk about
Speaker 6: receiving receiver blockers.
Speaker 7: We throw him a good path.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, he could block. He could certainly block.
Speaker 6: But it's helping the run game. It's obviously not the
Speaker 6: biggest contributor. But it's something that I noticed off rip.
Speaker 3: Their tight ends are actually blocking span Ford, Schoonmaker, those
Speaker 3: guys are actually getting like they're getting. They're getting combination
Speaker 3: blocks like Steel and Hoffman. We're doing a really good
Speaker 3: job of handling that, getting those down guys secured. They're there,
Speaker 3: but the point of attack tight end blocks have been better,
Speaker 3: like span Ford has like it's like all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: it's all this playing time for him has made him
Speaker 3: like a little bit more like, oh okay, I guess
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to do this. Either that or they're
Speaker 3: not gonna play me.
Speaker 2: But that's what they saw in him man, when they kept.
Speaker 5: Him with.
Speaker 3: The things that have happened. The combination block, and we keep
Speaker 3: we keep laughing about this. They do have a healthy
Speaker 3: body at right guard. A healthy body at right guard
Speaker 3: does make a difference. And then you get the combination
Speaker 3: of Hoffman and then Steel. We're and stuff well together.
Speaker 3: Daddle runs tough. Then you get point of attack tight
Speaker 3: end blocking that's helped. So yeah, it's really it's it's
Speaker 3: been to me and there wasn't. Sometimes it's such predictability
Speaker 3: with this offense. The second down run. You know, you're like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: here comes the second down run. You know here he's
Speaker 3: kind of mixing matching his runs a little bit better,
Speaker 3: and I think that's helping the situation as well.
Speaker 6: Could I mention one thing about the running game or
Speaker 6: out of the break? Okay, Ezekiel Elliott at this point
Speaker 6: one carry during the game. He only had nine snaps
Speaker 6: in the entire day season low. He didn't have any
Speaker 6: snaps in pass protection. Let's elevate my league, Davis, see
Speaker 6: what he's got. Let's see what you got going into
Speaker 6: the offseason. You haven't seen what the kid can do.
Speaker 3: Get You couldn't get You couldn't get Cook on the roster.
Speaker 3: What are you trying to do?
Speaker 6: Exactly? Yeah, yeah, he had his opportunity to give Davis
Speaker 6: his opportunity.
Speaker 2: Let's do it. He's saying at this point, just what
Speaker 2: are you gonna do?
Speaker 3: Cook?
Speaker 5: You gonna I mean, you're gonna have to give him
Speaker 5: a You say, bring him up for a week.
Speaker 6: Is that what you're saying, Davis?
Speaker 2: Yeah, bring him up for a week.
Speaker 6: See just got I.
Speaker 7: Love how you think we would actually get to see.
Speaker 3: That like a GM.
Speaker 6: All right, we have completely forgotten that Malie Davis is
Speaker 6: on this rock.
Speaker 2: I mean we have to see him.
Speaker 5: We know, we know what he can do though, I
Speaker 5: mean we've seen him play. He's a he's a good back.
Speaker 5: Just I don't know, he's a great bag.
Speaker 2: He's a good good back.
Speaker 3: Just keep giving Rico Dowbell the carry.
Speaker 2: Agree, Just just stick with what you mean. What do
Speaker 2: you just work?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 6: Just get five carries to league days?
Speaker 2: We just hate Rico, do not. Let's go the.
Speaker 6: Case he's worked. I think exactly. You need to save
Speaker 6: him for the future. Bring us up, bring thee Davis
Speaker 6: up for a week.
Speaker 2: So now we're saving people. Okay, all right, let's take
Speaker 2: our first break. When we come back. I do want
Speaker 2: to talk about the left right. I do want to
Speaker 2: talk about this offensive line a little bit more.
Speaker 5: We'll dive in a little deeper, and I'm gonna ask
Speaker 5: you guys the question, what's preferable a healthy brock Kaffman
Speaker 5: or more injured Zach Martin to talk about that we
Speaker 5: come back radio.
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Speaker 5: It is the second segment of the break life from
Speaker 5: the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star. This segment's brought
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Speaker 5: about the offensive line yesterday or Thursday. Jeez, Thursday, they
Speaker 5: gave up zero sacks. They had a one hundred yard rusher.
Speaker 5: My question for you guys and Brian you mentioned it earlier.
Speaker 5: Brock Kauflin and brock Kaufman played at right guard in
Speaker 5: place of Zach Martin, who's been out injured. And I
Speaker 5: want to be really careful about this because I don't
Speaker 5: want anyone to take from this conversation that somehow it's like, oh,
Speaker 5: just discard the longtime great veteran who's headed for the
Speaker 5: Hall of Fame and Zach Martin. That is not what
Speaker 5: this conversation is about. This conversation is more about the
Speaker 5: tactical point of right now, the way brock Kaufman is playing,
Speaker 5: and I think you said it during the break, Nick,
Speaker 5: he has one he's allowed one pressure in the time
Speaker 5: that he's played, in the way that he's playing, compared
Speaker 5: to what Zach. How Zach has been playing with all
Speaker 5: the injuries, which right now, again that's not his fault,
Speaker 5: but he has a ton of injuries and he's really
Speaker 5: trying to battle through it. But you can tell there's
Speaker 5: a marked difference between his normal play and the play
Speaker 5: that he's had this year. Which do you think is
Speaker 5: better for the success of this team, A healthy brock
Speaker 5: Kauffman or an injured Zach.
Speaker 6: Mart I'm gonna take the names out of it and
Speaker 6: just look at the success. And I think brock Kaffman
Speaker 6: is having more success. And you look at not only
Speaker 6: pass protection, he's only allowed one pressure all season and
Speaker 6: one hundred and eighty three snaps. You look at the
Speaker 6: run game and what they've been able to generate in
Speaker 6: the run game these last two games. You see the
Speaker 6: lanes that they've been able to open up in the
Speaker 6: middle of the offensive line. I credit brock Hoffman a
Speaker 6: lot to that. Obviously Koober BB and Tyler Smith as well,
Speaker 6: But if I'm looking at results, I see a lot
Speaker 6: different results with brock Kaufman.
Speaker 2: And now also let's put it into this equation.
Speaker 5: This has been over the last two weeks against the opponents,
Speaker 5: specifically this last week against an opponent like the Giants
Speaker 5: that is a less opponent than maybe some that that
Speaker 5: Zach is at the.
Speaker 3: Face their best player plays defensive tackle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was defense what point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well at the elbow, yeah, he went down what
Speaker 3: third quarter? I think it was late third Yeah, but yeah, they.
Speaker 2: He is possible defensive player of the year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they they double team that dude sixty five percent
Speaker 3: of them When you watch that play, I mean they
Speaker 3: Dallas's plan in the first time these two teams met
Speaker 3: was not to let they double teamed him every pass rush.
Speaker 3: You know, they were not going to let him win.
Speaker 3: He didn't and he didn't win. You know, it'll be
Speaker 3: it'll be interesting now because basically what you've done is
Speaker 3: you've bought You've bought Zach Martin. What now three weeks
Speaker 3: would that be? How you look at this? Right?
Speaker 6: With that?
Speaker 3: If you count out the days of the games he's missed,
Speaker 3: you know how, so he's missed. Yeah, but the two
Speaker 3: games were five days apart, so you missed the two games.
Speaker 3: So you're really looking at that week and then another
Speaker 3: week and now they're going to have a week to
Speaker 3: get ready for this. So it's a Monday night, right?
Speaker 3: Is that three weeks? Is that enough time to get
Speaker 3: everything kind of in line again for a push for
Speaker 3: for Zach Martin? Or do you this sounds so bad?
Speaker 3: Do you just keep rolling because you're rolling on offense?
Speaker 3: I mean, I say rolling. You've had your positive running
Speaker 3: game against the Commanders positive running game we've talked about
Speaker 3: the Giants. Seems like that in the Commander's game, they thrilled,
Speaker 3: they threw the ball. The protection was good enough. The
Speaker 3: Giants game, the protection was good enough. Do you just
Speaker 3: do you just keep it rolling? Do you just tell
Speaker 3: Zach Martin that we're gonna keep going with this and
Speaker 3: do you rotate him back in? How do you how do.
Speaker 2: You just tell him like, we're gonna let you keep
Speaker 2: getting better.
Speaker 5: Because my assumption with all that you're saying, I'm in
Speaker 5: three weeks, maybe he can't be one hundred percent, So
Speaker 5: we just want you to keep getting better and we'll
Speaker 5: wait that out.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to watching Cincinnati and they have McKinley Jackson,
Speaker 3: they have Chris Jenkins, they have these rookie defensive tackles,
Speaker 3: BJ Hill, they have They've got all these these guys.
Speaker 3: Sheldon Rankins, who they got from Houston is he's hurt, so,
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know what their defensive tackle situation is.
Speaker 3: Like it might be where you can once again play
Speaker 3: with brock Hoffman and now you give Zach Martin a
Speaker 3: full three weeks and then you get Now you're getting
Speaker 3: in and heck, then you're at Carolina the following week.
Speaker 3: I mean, do you just do you save Zach Martin
Speaker 3: for Philadelphia and the Commanders? I mean, but what if
Speaker 3: you keep winning? What if you keep winning? What if
Speaker 3: you do beat Cincinnati and then what do you do?
Speaker 3: Now you beat Carolina, You're back to five hundred. It's crazy,
Speaker 3: you know, And so I mean, I think you'd want
Speaker 3: to have Zach Martin there playing right, But if your
Speaker 3: offense is playing better running the football and the past
Speaker 3: protection stuff is better, does Zach Martin become just a
Speaker 3: backup guy? Got? I think I never say that.
Speaker 7: I think it's I like what Nick did. Like if
Speaker 7: you do the whole on biased opinion and take the
Speaker 7: name out of it and just look at the plays.
Speaker 3: The position they're playing better, that's.
Speaker 7: What you should rely on. And again, there's no way
Speaker 7: that Zach is back to filling one hundred percent right now.
Speaker 7: I mean, there's always a way, but it's it's one
Speaker 7: of those scenarios that you you want to keep seeing
Speaker 7: what you have in Brockoffman and give him the chance.
Speaker 7: It's going well so far, but also you want to
Speaker 7: protect the health.
Speaker 3: Of your Okay, I got one for you, A G
Speaker 3: seventy two Zach Martin better than brock Hoffman, so specific I.
Speaker 6: Not seventy seven.
Speaker 7: It depends on where we're just killed. It depends on
Speaker 7: where we're at in the season.
Speaker 3: I feel like you're trying to win games. I mean,
Speaker 3: you've got to win. You really can't lose games.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have a shot at the playoffs. The
Speaker 2: playoffs start today.
Speaker 3: Every game, every game you play is a playoff game.
Speaker 3: Every game you play is a playoff game.
Speaker 7: So excu, he's my emergency guy.
Speaker 3: Hey, oh gosh, Mancy, because.
Speaker 7: I want him to keep getting healthy and worst case scenario,
Speaker 7: come back. We need you.
Speaker 3: This might be his last campaign, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're gonna have the black SUVs take us away
Speaker 6: when we walk out of this podcast studio. It's gonna
Speaker 6: get bad. I I would go with Brockoffin in that equation.
Speaker 3: A seventy two percent. Yeah, Zach Martin, not better than bet,
Speaker 3: not better than off.
Speaker 5: Give me the seventy two percent, Zach. Now, if you'd
Speaker 5: gone to sixty nine percent, I would have changed.
Speaker 2: Seventy two percent. I'm taking. That's passing, Zach, Yeah, exactly taking.
Speaker 7: I just want what's better for Sack. I care so
Speaker 7: much about it. No, but it's it's a.
Speaker 3: Tough is this is the okay? Is it is? It?
Speaker 3: Is this the same situation they went through with Romo
Speaker 3: and Dak in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 5: I think it's a little different just because of the position.
Speaker 5: I do think the position colors at a lot.
Speaker 6: It's a lot different. There, different I think there. I
Speaker 6: think there is a comparison you can make. I just
Speaker 6: need to think of one off the top of my head.
Speaker 7: Well, that's an easier switch, you know, versus you designing man.
Speaker 3: There were people that wanted they wanted Tony back in there.
Speaker 5: No, that was a hard decision, I think for the organization.
Speaker 5: I remember, Yeah, there were some people that did want
Speaker 5: him back in.
Speaker 3: Yeah. When do you not play Zach Martin? I mean,
Speaker 3: do you just because things are rolling along? I mean
Speaker 3: at least through two games.
Speaker 5: Well, let's also I think part of the thing is
Speaker 5: the situation back then that was like that was the
Speaker 5: results were so spectacular that.
Speaker 3: Year, like you beat Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh you.
Speaker 5: Were just doing some things that year that just felt like, man,
Speaker 5: this team is really rolling in a way that they
Speaker 5: haven't really rolled in a while, and from the standpoint
Speaker 5: of just the excitement that it that it built, and
Speaker 5: and you have to factor that in when you think
Speaker 5: about the locker room, like if you there's more that
Speaker 5: could go wrong with replacing Dak with Romo then with
Speaker 5: staying the course, is the way I look at it,
Speaker 5: and so I think it made sense and so but
Speaker 5: but I don't think I think that was so different
Speaker 5: than this like this season has been in most people's.
Speaker 2: Estimations, a disappointment.
Speaker 5: Has So from that standpoint, I think it's a little
Speaker 5: bit of a different equation of well, yeah, you could
Speaker 5: trade them back in or or not trade them back in.
Speaker 5: If you put Zack back in, is he gonna make
Speaker 5: that big of a difference where now they aren't gonna
Speaker 5: make this improbable run. I don't know that you could
Speaker 5: make that argument. So I think it's a little bit
Speaker 5: different from that standpoint.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't see it the same as as Dak
Speaker 6: and Romo. If that's the question, Yeah, that was, Yeah,
Speaker 6: I don't see the same. I don't see it the
Speaker 6: same at.
Speaker 3: All, not at all, not at all.
Speaker 6: But I see where you're going with it. I'm trying
Speaker 6: to think of like a more similar comparison.
Speaker 3: Talking about you're talking about like you're like a like
Speaker 3: a A. Okay, I'm just gonna say this in a
Speaker 3: nice way. A journeyman right guard who's played really well
Speaker 3: the last couple of weeks, Yeah, is he better than
Speaker 3: playing with a Hall of Fame guard who is dealing
Speaker 3: with a lot of injuries. See this is where this
Speaker 3: is also I make it sound really dire.
Speaker 2: Then this is also.
Speaker 5: Where you know you think you factor in the human element.
Speaker 5: So let's say, for example, if you're playing I don't
Speaker 5: want to get too crazy, but if you're playing mad,
Speaker 5: if you're playing Madden and you got two players like this,
Speaker 5: then you just take the player that has played better.
Speaker 5: Whatever player is playing better, that's the player you take.
Speaker 5: If if when you're dealing with humans, though, there's this
Speaker 5: element of man.
Speaker 2: I've seen Zach be dominant.
Speaker 3: We've seen him struggle, and that's because he's really I
Speaker 3: think banged up, right, I get that.
Speaker 5: But what I'm saying is I think for the coaches,
Speaker 5: after giving him, let's say, three weeks to get healthy,
Speaker 5: if he comes to you and says, coach, I'm good,
Speaker 5: I can go believe him. You're gonna believe him right,
Speaker 5: and by the way, he's earned that right. And so
Speaker 5: this is not just a easy decision of this guy's
Speaker 5: playing better, this guy was not playing well.
Speaker 2: It is there's a human factor in it.
Speaker 5: The human factor means that this guy that wasn't playing
Speaker 5: as well because you trust him because of the history has,
Speaker 5: if he says he can go, you're gonna throw him
Speaker 5: out there.
Speaker 2: No matter what.
Speaker 7: That's what I was gonna say, Like he I don't
Speaker 7: see Zach being the type of person that would come
Speaker 7: in here and like throw a fit and be like
Speaker 7: if he's not ready, if it's not if it's not ready,
Speaker 7: and he like he he is a true professional, and
Speaker 7: he he's not naive or blind. He can see everything
Speaker 7: and like know exactly what's happening. And I don't think
Speaker 7: he would be one that if it's not ready, just
Speaker 7: because of pride, he would try to throw a fit
Speaker 7: over there and argue like, no, put me out there now,
Speaker 7: Rummel Again, different personalities, different scenarios. I'm not trying to
Speaker 7: say nothing, but I'm saying I'm just say this, it's
Speaker 7: a different scenario here. I think Zach and I agree
Speaker 7: with you, if he would be like, hey, I feel good,
Speaker 7: I feel ready. There's no reason why not to listen
Speaker 7: to him.
Speaker 2: Okay, you don't even think about it.
Speaker 3: You put really bad. What if this was a four
Speaker 3: game winning streak? What you got going with, sack nothing,
Speaker 3: I'm just no, no, I'm just with you. I'm just asking,
Speaker 3: I'm just seeing how committed you are.
Speaker 2: I'm my evaluation is still the same. It's a four
Speaker 2: game win streak.
Speaker 5: Because because it's four game win streak, then I'm like, well,
Speaker 5: Zach said, now what five weeks.
Speaker 2: To get healthy? You give me a healthy Zach Martin.
Speaker 5: I'm taking him over anybody on this offensive offensive maybe
Speaker 5: Tyler Smith.
Speaker 3: You're putting tank back in their over Golston, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, when he's healthy, I'm putting it back in
Speaker 5: there because of the history.
Speaker 6: Come on, I trust the history.
Speaker 5: Ask I mean, the last time we saw him on
Speaker 5: the field, he was still a really good player.
Speaker 2: The last time we saw Zach healthy, he was still
Speaker 2: a really good player.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if we've seen Zach healthy all year.
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 5: I agree with that last time we saw him healthy
Speaker 5: was last season, and last season he was a really
Speaker 5: good player.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's tough to have this conversation.
Speaker 3: Watch not be able to run the ball this week,
Speaker 3: and you guys are liking to be like screaming at
Speaker 3: your into the press.
Speaker 2: Come save usore, we do it. Put Hoffman back in there.
Speaker 2: We do it all right, Here we go. Let's take
Speaker 2: our final break, will come back.
Speaker 5: Let's talk a little bit about the quarterback to do
Speaker 5: it till the third segment to get to have a
Speaker 5: little assessment.
Speaker 2: Cooper rushes play here in this flast game we'll do
Speaker 2: when we come back.
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Speaker 5: Well back, we were in the final segment of the
Speaker 5: break Life from this WBC Mortgage Studios at the star
Speaker 5: let's talk about Cooper Rush. He was twenty one to
Speaker 5: thirty six, fifty eight percent completion rate, one hundred and
Speaker 5: ninety five passing yards, one touchdown, no interceptions, eighty two
Speaker 5: point five rating by all accounts, a very solid day.
Speaker 5: Nothing crazy, nothing crazy bad. How would you assess this
Speaker 5: play from that game?
Speaker 6: This looked like the twenty twenty two Cooper Rush because
Speaker 6: he had a running game. He didn't try to do
Speaker 6: too much, he was calculated, he didn't force anything, and
Speaker 6: he had a healthy running game to help support that.
Speaker 6: And it looked like a twenty twenty two offense in
Speaker 6: that sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the balls is not going down the field though,
Speaker 3: very much, right, I mean, everything is kind of you know,
Speaker 3: but when Cooper Rush doesn't turn over the ball, they
Speaker 3: have a chance to win. When he does, they're going
Speaker 3: to lose. It's just the way it is. So you
Speaker 3: still kind of you know, you're kind of looking for
Speaker 3: a little bit more. That's my worry about some of
Speaker 3: these games that you're going to have to try and
Speaker 3: wine down the stretch here if you yeah, Philly, Cincinnati,
Speaker 3: since Tampa, that guy, you know, Baker Mayfield, the way
Speaker 3: he plays. I mean, if if you're gonna really be
Speaker 3: in this thing, you're gonna have to go win those games.
Speaker 3: And can Cooper rush generate enough offense if done turn
Speaker 3: the ball over? Got a chance. But you know five,
Speaker 3: you know, if you look at all the metrics and
Speaker 3: all that, he's one of the he's one of the
Speaker 3: he's one of he's near the bottom and most every
Speaker 3: metrics there is for a quarterback. So you know, Dallas's defense,
Speaker 3: they're special teams. That's gonna be a big calling card there.
Speaker 3: The ability to run the football, you know, like but
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to play great defense and hope, like
Speaker 3: hell that he could find some offense somewhere that Ceedee
Speaker 3: Lamb can get going, you know, and you know, and
Speaker 3: and maybe they found something with Turpin getting him more involved,
Speaker 3: getting him down the field. But you know, we'll see
Speaker 3: how that all plays out. I I have my doubts
Speaker 3: because I think Cooper Rush is who Cooper Rush is.
Speaker 3: There's not gonna be anything spectacular. And you know you're
Speaker 3: going in all these games likely being the quarterback that
Speaker 3: you're playing against is probably the better quarterback on the field.
Speaker 6: So it's a healthy Trey Lance better than a banged
Speaker 6: up Cooper.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a feeling. I have my feelings. I
Speaker 3: have my feelings about how to win these football games. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I think late in the year, I think it
Speaker 3: would be really difficult for an NFL defense to have
Speaker 3: to get ready to play against Trey Lance running the football.
Speaker 3: I think you can. I think you can scheme and
Speaker 3: and there's gonna be some games where you're gonna if
Speaker 3: you're if you think you're going to shoot out, and
Speaker 3: you might have to. You might have to shoot out.
Speaker 3: I shouldn't use that term. But you're gonna have to
Speaker 3: like play at a very high four. Yeah, you have
Speaker 3: to play at a very high level to beat Cincinnati
Speaker 3: because of their offense. You know they're gonna put Dallas's
Speaker 3: defense is going to have their handsful, but on defense,
Speaker 3: but they're playing better. You know they could. They could.
Speaker 3: They're capable of playing really well. And but we keep
Speaker 3: going back to how many three and outs are you
Speaker 3: gonna have? How many you know, how many missed opportunities
Speaker 3: are you going to have in the red zone? How
Speaker 3: many times are you going to get down there, you know,
Speaker 3: first and eight and have to kick a field goal.
Speaker 6: I'm glad you brought up red zone, and I know
Speaker 6: it's a much different situation. But you look at what
Speaker 6: Texas did in College Station on Saturday. Yeah, Saturday, My
Speaker 6: days are all messed up. When they bring in arch
Speaker 6: Manning in the red zone.
Speaker 5: They had a specific package from him in the red zone.
Speaker 5: It works perfect, It.
Speaker 2: Works perfect, well well done.
Speaker 6: And when and when Dallas has these red zone issues,
Speaker 6: why not integrate trade lance?
Speaker 7: It's it's it's like copying. We don't like your copy.
Speaker 7: What works?
Speaker 3: I got to college, speaking of college.
Speaker 2: Young people out there a couple of years.
Speaker 3: Mister Broughts, why are you wearing a hat today? I
Speaker 3: never wear a hat.
Speaker 7: You're still you're still seeing the same missions that you
Speaker 7: still like you had with dak in there. Sure it
Speaker 7: still does like none of that, none of those problems
Speaker 7: that you were having offensively have improved whatsoever. It does
Speaker 7: help when you create that balance offense like you guys
Speaker 7: mentioned having that running game, but as soon as a
Speaker 7: defense is able to take that running game that recently
Speaker 7: started to reappear, you're I don't think you still. I
Speaker 7: don't think you can do enough because you haven't shown
Speaker 7: that you can offensively. And Cooper he can have some
Speaker 7: good throws, but then there's a bunch that are just
Speaker 7: like very close, and you're like, why why did you
Speaker 7: throw the ball right there? And I mentioned Mingo earlier.
Speaker 7: I think he had I don't know how many, but
Speaker 7: there were several missed opportunities there that had the ball
Speaker 7: been thrown just a little bit better, he would have
Speaker 7: caught that.
Speaker 3: I know. The one thing about Trey Lance his arm
Speaker 3: is stronger than what sure. I mean, you watch him throw,
Speaker 3: and sure it could go all over the place. You
Speaker 3: could go to the other team, you know.
Speaker 7: But so what I want to think is the reason
Speaker 7: why we haven't actually seen more of Trey Lance.
Speaker 3: Because because Cooper Rush has proven he can win games
Speaker 3: and not mess it up.
Speaker 5: And let's be clear, I'm not saying I necessarily want
Speaker 5: to see more of Trey Lance. I just want to
Speaker 5: see them being I want to see some designed like
Speaker 5: when they when they brought him in these last two games,
Speaker 5: it almost felt like it was just kind of the
Speaker 5: cursory thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get Trey in there and give them some reps.
Speaker 7: Purpose.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it felt like a preseason game where you kind
Speaker 5: of just want to see instead of like you said
Speaker 5: with the Texas game, it was clear they had a package.
Speaker 5: When we get to the red zone, we're going to
Speaker 5: pull this out and we're going to try these things
Speaker 5: that's going to give the defense something different than what
Speaker 5: we've necessarily shown, and we're going to take advantage of
Speaker 5: this player's specific skills.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to see.
Speaker 5: I want to see them try something in a specific
Speaker 5: moment in games where there's a big opportunity to be
Speaker 5: able to take advantage of something because of this players
Speaker 5: you need skills.
Speaker 2: And then give them a play that's unique to their skills.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's not more, it's not more, it's just well,
Speaker 2: I'm more.
Speaker 7: I mean exactly what you said, Okay, good, more, but
Speaker 7: in a better way with the purpose, because just like
Speaker 7: you said, the times that we have seen him in there,
Speaker 7: you're like, what, like, what are we doing here? It
Speaker 7: doesn't seem it just seems like you're just throwing him
Speaker 7: out there just for the fun of it. You really
Speaker 7: don't have a true plan behind it or a design
Speaker 7: play that plays into his abilities, like you said, And
Speaker 7: I think that's where they could get so creative and
Speaker 7: just have the best of both things. Use Trey Lance
Speaker 7: and then Cooper Rush with what he can do.
Speaker 2: Not all good.
Speaker 6: I'll say, you don't want to see Trey Lance start
Speaker 6: these games?
Speaker 2: No, no, you don't. I think Cooper still gives you
Speaker 2: the best.
Speaker 7: Team, and we saw some of that in the Preseeds.
Speaker 2: I think Cooper still gives you the best chance to win.
Speaker 5: I think that Trey Lance right now is and I
Speaker 5: don't want to son a bad term, because I think
Speaker 5: it's a good term. He's a gadget player right now.
Speaker 5: He's a guy that that you can pull out, and
Speaker 5: he has some really unique skills that if you use
Speaker 5: him the right way, you could throw something at teams
Speaker 5: that they're just not They can't they haven't prepared for
Speaker 5: in the way that they've prepared for Cooper Rush, and
Speaker 5: you can take advantage of it if you do it.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: See it's funny. I just looked up something just because
Speaker 3: I was curious. They call this like the identity check.
Speaker 3: You know in Next Gen you ever see that Derek
Speaker 3: identity check. They see no need to blitz Cooper rush.
Speaker 3: His five point three yards per attempt versus four or
Speaker 3: fewer rushers is the second fewest in the NFL.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So he's just intentionally very he's.
Speaker 3: Very conservative the way that he plays football.
Speaker 2: At Brandon Whedon when he's here, Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you're kind of like you're kind of sitting there
Speaker 3: like going, okay, well, you know, thank god you got
Speaker 3: overshown in Parsons and Bland and all these guys back,
Speaker 3: because if you're sitting there, you're just you know, if
Speaker 3: you're a pastor and your five point three yards an
Speaker 3: attempt and not even against the blitz just four man
Speaker 3: rush man, that that's that's that's asking way too much
Speaker 3: of your your team right there.
Speaker 5: All right, we appreciate you guys. Jonas will be back tomorrow.
Speaker 5: We'll have a little game from Brian will look some.
Speaker 3: Big pictures, just half my questions topics.
Speaker 5: And get through that one tomorrow till then for Nick Harris,
Speaker 5: Brian brought a Sandbergarci. I'm Derek hil from This has
Speaker 5: been the Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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