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Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your nose. Hold it now,

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Speaker 1: release slowly again deep in helle hold release, repeating internally

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Speaker 1: to yourself as you connect to my voice. I am deeply,

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Speaker 1: deeply well. I I am deeply well. I am deeply

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Speaker 1: I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on

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Speaker 1: your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,

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Speaker 1: and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.

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Speaker 1: I'm Debbie Brown. This is where we heal, this is

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Speaker 1: where we become. Episode we will be going on a

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Speaker 1: journey of deeper embodiment. This episode is in deep service

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Speaker 1: to getting even more beautifully connected to that sacred container

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Speaker 1: of your spirit, your body. Today's special guest is doctor Shehena.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Shena is a sacred being. She intends to live

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Speaker 1: freely authentically, to embody her sovereignty, to be cherished and

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Speaker 1: respected by her ancestors, and to honor the ritual of

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Speaker 1: calling community beloveds back into their bodies as a freedom practice.

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Speaker 1: She is a licensed embodiment focused psychologist, healer, traum and

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Speaker 1: formed consultant, yoga teacher, psychedelic assisted therapist. And efa princess

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Speaker 1: of O'shoon and Obatala. She owns a private practice, Embodied

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Speaker 1: Truth Healing and Psychological Services, rooted in Los Angeles, California,

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Speaker 1: where she offers mind, body, heart spirit care in healing

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Speaker 1: from sexual, racial, intergenerational, and ancestral traumas. Her approach to

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Speaker 1: healing divest from the westernized blueprint as it traverses the body,

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Speaker 1: nature based approaches and indigenous wisdoms, African spiritual traditions as

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Speaker 1: the medicine. She's adamant about nourishing a world that brings

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Speaker 1: ancient healing traditions forward into our modern world with integrity, reverence,

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Speaker 1: and respect. People trust her because in space with her,

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Speaker 1: they remember how to trust themselves. Her work has been

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Speaker 1: featured as a cover story in Resilient Magazine, Publishers Weekly,

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Speaker 1: Huffington Post, Lily By, Washington Post, and Forbes, and she's

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Speaker 1: been trusted to care and consult for the body, a

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Speaker 1: Home for Love, Black Girl and Home, Loveland Foundation, and

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Speaker 1: Me Too Movement communities, amongst many. Welcome to the show, Doctor,

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Speaker 1: She thank you so much, Jim, so happy to be here. Ah,

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Speaker 1: there were just so many things that I was deeply

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Speaker 1: your resonating with even just and rereading your bio for

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Speaker 1: the show. You know, some of the words that stand

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Speaker 1: out to me that are such driving forces in my

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Speaker 1: life are integrity and reverence. Having reverence for your life's

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Speaker 1: experiences is to me has been the greatest gift in

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Speaker 1: moving myself forward, into acceptance, into sovereignty, into being with

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Speaker 1: all of it all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, there's so much synergy between us, and so

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that you get it. So the ways that

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Speaker 2: we can continue to rebirth ourselves and heal ourselves and

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Speaker 2: our ancestors.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, there's so much to dive into with

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Speaker 1: you on this show. And I want to invite everyone listening,

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Speaker 1: wherever you happen to be listening, get comfy. Some things

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Speaker 1: might come up in this episode that and deeply that

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Speaker 1: could also maybe give some charge. So Jess, listen with

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Speaker 1: consideration of how you tap into your own energy and

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Speaker 1: your own body. Consider having a journal nearby, and consider

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Speaker 1: revisiting certain moments that you want to take a little

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Speaker 1: more time with down the line. Ah, So to really

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Speaker 1: get started, doctor Sheena. So you have a new book,

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Speaker 1: and thank you so much for my copy. It's called

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Speaker 1: Body Rights and Body Rights is a written companion and

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Speaker 1: workbook for readers, especially Black women, seeking to reclaim their

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Speaker 1: bodies as home and healing from sexual trauma. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: So there are I mean, there is trauma. There is

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Speaker 1: so much trauma in this world and so many different

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Speaker 1: ways that we experience it when we choose to embody

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Speaker 1: in this lifetime. And so we're working with a lot

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Speaker 1: of facets of trauma, be it you know, what I

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Speaker 1: believe to be past life trauma, some of the things

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Speaker 1: that come back in with us that we may be

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Speaker 1: exploring through various lifetimes with various people. We have the

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Speaker 1: larger containers of systemic trauma and societal trauma and current

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Speaker 1: belief system trauma that kind of permeates us in so

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Speaker 1: many different ways. And then we have very specific trauma,

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Speaker 1: the things that we experience in this life that are

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Speaker 1: very often the centerpieces of our spiritual curriculum and what

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Speaker 1: we'll be thinking about for long periods of time, and

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Speaker 1: especially when it comes to sexual trauma. I mean, that

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Speaker 1: is something and I'm curious. This is me actually kind

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Speaker 1: of stating something in the way I believe it, but

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Speaker 1: I'm so deeply curious in the way that you hold

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Speaker 1: it and believe it. You know, when it comes to

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Speaker 1: physical abuses in this lifetime, physical traumas, those are the

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Speaker 1: things that seem to really take us completely away from

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Speaker 1: our human experience and make it really hard to kind

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Speaker 1: of understand yourself as a soul or spirit or make

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Speaker 1: a lot of foreid movement in this life because of

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Speaker 1: that disconnect. And so I would just like to turn

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Speaker 1: it over to you into this beautiful work body Rights,

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Speaker 1: and the way that you, as an expert, have observed

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Speaker 1: this in women's bodies, and what this book is meant

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Speaker 1: to birth. Yes, thank you for that beautiful opening.

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Speaker 2: You know, I as a Black woman who is fluid

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Speaker 2: and also a survivor myself, I know this experience. I

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Speaker 2: know what it's like to live in a body that

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Speaker 2: is the crime scene, as I often say, Right, so,

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Speaker 2: when you have a car accident at the corner of

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Speaker 2: A and Z street, you can avoid that intersection, right,

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Speaker 2: But when you've experienced this violation to your body, you

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Speaker 2: have to in it. And so many of us find

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Speaker 2: ways to live beside it, to live above it, to

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Speaker 2: look beyond it, underneath it. And so Body Rights is

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Speaker 2: a gift to black survivors of sexual trauma who want

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Speaker 2: to find home in their bodies. And you said it

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Speaker 2: so beautifully about how trauma can interrupt our relationship with

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Speaker 2: our spirits. And I believe holistically, which is how the

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Speaker 2: book is grounded. The healing for healing journeys throughout the

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Speaker 2: book are coming from a decolonized and holistic approach. So

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Speaker 2: what that means is, I'm thinking about how trauma lived

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Speaker 2: experiences in general affect us mind, body, heart, and spirit.

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Speaker 2: The mind piece is what we tend to and a

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Speaker 2: Western society give most attention to how we think about

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Speaker 2: what has happened, how it affects how we think about

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Speaker 2: ourselves and the world. The body piece, which is my

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Speaker 2: favorite thing to talk about but often left out of

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Speaker 2: the conversation, and the healing experiences, This is about how

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Speaker 2: lived experiences show up in the body physically, physiologically, in

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Speaker 2: our nervous systems, and also in our energy body. As

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Speaker 2: you were mentioning these our own experiences and those that

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Speaker 2: come from previous lifetimes. The heart piece is about our

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Speaker 2: relationship to ourself and others, and themes of mistrust betrayal

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Speaker 2: often show up in that space, and I think one

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Speaker 2: of the places where the rupture is huge.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is.

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Speaker 2: An interpersonal trauma, something that happens between humans, and so

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Speaker 2: how can you trust after that? And then lastly's spirit

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Speaker 2: is about our relationship to a higher self, our God

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Speaker 2: or God's, our intuition, and our ancestors or maybe even

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Speaker 2: our sense of purpose.

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Speaker 1: So embody Rights.

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Speaker 2: I offer four medicine journeys that help us along those

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Speaker 2: each of those spaces. The first journey is about embodiment

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Speaker 2: coming back home, calling ourselves back home slowly and surely

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Speaker 2: understanding what the book is about. The second journey is

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Speaker 2: an abbreviated version of my ten week workshop series Healing

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Speaker 2: on the Mat, and it brings in embodiment shapes practices,

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Speaker 2: trauma informed yoga as a way to start to inhabit

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Speaker 2: the body a little bit more. The third journey is

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Speaker 2: about allowing plant medicine and natural resources to support the

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Speaker 2: healing journey, and it explores the impact of trauma on

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Speaker 2: the chakras.

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Speaker 1: That I mentioned earlier.

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Speaker 2: And lastly, maybe my favorite journey is exploring intergenerational trauma

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Speaker 2: healing and ancestral reverence as healing support space.

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Speaker 1: Wow wow wow, well you just shared that's in this book.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so much. I know, I know

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Speaker 1: we got it out like in a couple minutes, but

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Speaker 1: it's just it's deep. It's so much and so many

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Speaker 1: facets to the healing journey. What I think is so

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Speaker 1: just so important for people and what they're hearing right now.

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Speaker 2: Is just.

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Speaker 1: Especially the permission that it's not one thing. And if

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Speaker 1: you haven't quote unquote fixed this or healed this at

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Speaker 1: the first attempt or the first view or in the

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Speaker 1: one style of approaching it, there are so many options

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Speaker 1: to find new ways to be with this, to heal yourself,

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Speaker 1: to find things that are more supportive when someone is

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Speaker 1: embarking on a journey like this, and especially when they

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Speaker 1: find your book, how do they go about kind of

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Speaker 1: settling into the work that's at hand, Because that piece

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Speaker 1: about I think for so many and especially when you

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Speaker 1: look at an abuse like this, when you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: the sexual trauma, that it's so deeply connected to your

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Speaker 1: ability to be creative, to your ability to be yourself,

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Speaker 1: to birth anything into the world with any sense of

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Speaker 1: courage or boldness or authenticity. And it feels like when

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Speaker 1: things are that big, you know something I encounter a

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Speaker 1: lot as a teacher is Yeah, but they're having that

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Speaker 1: little bit of breath work, Like you don't know what

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Speaker 1: I've been through. That's not going to work. That's not enough.

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Speaker 1: The mountain seems so big for some of these painful experiences.

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Speaker 1: When someone is ready to heal and they pick up

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Speaker 1: your book, how do they go about it? How should

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Speaker 1: they approach it? How should they settle in to beginning

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Speaker 1: this process?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love thinking about my book finding its way

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Speaker 2: to survivors. I say, when it reaches you, it's going

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Speaker 2: to love you, and it'll know how to love you.

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Speaker 2: And I think just making the commitment and the acknowledgement

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Speaker 2: that something happened is a lot in and of itself.

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Speaker 2: So many people, you know, practice the body's fascinating and

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Speaker 2: magical and powerful in the ways that it tries to

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Speaker 2: protect us, right, And so many folks.

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Speaker 1: Have been avoiding in denial.

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Speaker 2: Right, And they hear something and maybe listening to us

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Speaker 2: have this conversation and remembering for the first time that

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Speaker 2: something happened when they were a young person. And so

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Speaker 2: I just want to say, I believe you, even if

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Speaker 2: it feels hard to remember all the details, I still

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Speaker 2: believe you. And that's the first step is being honest

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Speaker 2: with yourself about what happened, and then starting anywhere right,

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Speaker 2: starting anywhere. This healing journey can be so deeply alienating

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Speaker 2: and isolating, and so if it feels right to reach

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Speaker 2: out for support, I think that's a beautiful second step

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Speaker 2: as well. That might be a therapist, it might be

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Speaker 2: a friend, someone that you trust, someone that will take

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Speaker 2: the journey with you. But yeah, just that first acknowledgment

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Speaker 2: to yourself.

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Speaker 1: In the commitment to heal. I want to heal from this.

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Speaker 2: I no longer want this to dictate how I live,

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Speaker 2: how I breathe, how I be in relationships, how I

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Speaker 2: love myself.

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Speaker 1: There was something I saw on your Instagram page, one

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Speaker 1: of the posts that you put up. Broke really loved this.

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Speaker 1: It said, where does your body archive your life stories?

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Speaker 1: Shame is not the life companion you deserve. Wow? Can

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Speaker 1: you expand on that? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So I believe that life manifest in the body, the

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Speaker 2: good things, the hard things, the bad things, the joyful things,

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Speaker 2: the sweet things, especially the traumatic things. And so I

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Speaker 2: like to invite people as a practice of embodiment. This

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Speaker 2: word that's trending and buzzying. Everyone's kind of throwing it around,

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Speaker 2: but not necessarily. We don't understand maybe naturally, what that

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Speaker 2: might mean. And so I like to invite people to consider,

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Speaker 2: where does that thing that happened when you were child

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Speaker 2: or in college, where does that live in your body?

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Speaker 2: And most of the time, when people take a moment,

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Speaker 2: they might say, oh, I feel it in my belly

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Speaker 2: or in my back. Right. So I do this to

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Speaker 2: part meditation sometimes where I'll invite folks to take a

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Speaker 2: moment to remember the last time that they experience something

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Speaker 2: mildly agitating. Right, So most people think about when someone

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Speaker 2: cut them off in traffic. Correct, And as they're in

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Speaker 2: this meditation, I'm inviting them to notice what their body

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Speaker 2: sensations are. Right, They'll say, Oh, my neck is tense,

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Speaker 2: my shoulders are tense, my heart rate is increasing, I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling I'm seeing them frown, right, So the body's tensing up.

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Speaker 2: That's a perfect example of how something that happened a

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Speaker 2: week ago, two weeks ago is still present. Right. And

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Speaker 2: then I'll ask them to consider the last time they

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Speaker 2: experienced pleasure or joy, and it happens every time.

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Speaker 1: Their shoulders so soften. You'll see there's.

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Speaker 2: Smiling and I'm like, I'm not going to ask you

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Speaker 2: what you're remembering, but notice those sensations. So in that

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Speaker 2: same way, something mundane like that can show up. We

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Speaker 2: see our lived experiences living in our bodies.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: This can also show up physically in physical health issues.

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Speaker 2: I was just speaking with someone recently about a battle

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Speaker 2: they're having with diabetes, and I talk about the intergenerational

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Speaker 2: components of that, the survival skill of having to be

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Speaker 2: sweet in order to survive. That descendants of enslaved ancestors

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Speaker 2: practiced right, and so how that manifests in the body,

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Speaker 2: The experience of fibroids or reproductive issues passed down the

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Speaker 2: maternal line, reflux acid reflux as a manifestation of anxiety.

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Speaker 2: So I can talk on and on about this, but

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Speaker 2: those are just a few examples. And I think when

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Speaker 2: we can get connected to our body and search ourselves

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Speaker 2: for where those live, we can heal them and make

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Speaker 2: space for our birthrights. Joy, peace, love, sweetness. Wow.

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Speaker 1: To speak to the innergenerational trauma piece of it, I'm

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Speaker 1: so curious in what you've observed in your work in

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Speaker 1: terms of you. I found that if someone in this lifetime,

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Speaker 1: if one of the challenges that they face is that

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Speaker 1: they had an experience of sexual trauma. Very often, you

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Speaker 1: see it throughout the family line, and it's something that

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Speaker 1: has occurred with your mother, your grandmother, your aunts, and

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Speaker 1: it seems to be this kind of theme. It's a

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Speaker 1: little more rare for someone to be like the first

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Speaker 1: person in the family that this has happened to. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm just curious what you see, especially from as

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Speaker 1: a psychologist, but also from a spiritual lens of what

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Speaker 1: is that kind of lineage trauma? What is that story

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Speaker 1: being told? And how do you work with that energy

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Speaker 1: if it has been present in multiple generations.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I love this question so much because we're

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Speaker 2: speaking about how alienating sexual trauma can be, and in

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Speaker 2: this conversation I also name incests right that not only

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Speaker 2: is it happening for women identifying folks in the same bloodline,

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Speaker 2: but it might be happening within the family entirely, right,

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Speaker 2: And I find it quite profoundly saddening that multiple women

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Speaker 2: in the family kind of experience sexual trauma, but none

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Speaker 2: of them know about the other person's experience. Right, there's

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Speaker 2: this culture of secrecy that we have, especially in communities

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Speaker 2: of color, that presents an un obstacle right to healing.

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Speaker 2: So culture of secrecy and just the conversation of sexual

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Speaker 2: trauma being taboo. I also see that when folks do

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Speaker 2: come forward, sometimes family members don't believe them, or for

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Speaker 2: whatever you know reason, I think often coming from a

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Speaker 2: place of trauma and their own woundedness, they misplace their

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Speaker 2: loyalty to someone, something reputation right, or it can just

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Speaker 2: be really hard to look at. And so this goes

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Speaker 2: way way back.

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Speaker 1: I can.

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Speaker 2: I talk a lot about in the book the influence

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Speaker 2: of colonization and enslavement on the sexual objectification of black

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Speaker 2: women and black bodies in particular in our modern world.

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Speaker 1: There's a direct.

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Speaker 2: Connection there, and so many of us have internalized that

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Speaker 2: oppression that our bodies are not ours, that they don't

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Speaker 2: belong to us. And so you know, those themes continue

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Speaker 2: to stay ever present and are really important for us

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Speaker 2: to be exploring in our healing as family members, as

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Speaker 2: kindred chosen family. I think that you know, in my

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Speaker 2: specific spiritual tradition tradition, the belief is that you come

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Speaker 2: back when you transition and you become an ancestor, that

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Speaker 2: you come back into that same bloodline and so as

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about our time today, I had a

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Speaker 2: shower thought that made me quite emotional that if I

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Speaker 2: with that you know, belief system and my tradition, I

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Speaker 2: could potentially.

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Speaker 1: Give birth to my grandmother.

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Speaker 2: Right And maybe I don't know, maybe my grandmother has

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Speaker 2: experienced sexual trauma, maybe she hasn't. But this idea that

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Speaker 2: through epigenetics in the way that I am committed to

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Speaker 2: my healing, she could have a different experience.

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Speaker 1: It's just wild to me. Yeah, it's so profound and

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Speaker 1: it's so special, and it's like, you know, God, it's

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Speaker 1: just and bear with me, everyone listening, because I might

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Speaker 1: be hope, I hope this is tracking. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I think for those of us that do really believe

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Speaker 1: in work with lineage healing in our own lives, you know,

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Speaker 1: there is this understanding that you're healing seven generations back,

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Speaker 1: seven generations forward, and even hearing you share that, I

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Speaker 1: feel just like a little tender right now because when

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Speaker 1: I think of some of the things that I've kind

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Speaker 1: of been chewing on my whole life and working through

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Speaker 1: for myself, there is such a pride to this idea,

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Speaker 1: Like sometimes I feel like I can feel it in

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Speaker 1: real time when I come into a new awareness or

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Speaker 1: I feel a blockage or a pain, like physically leave

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Speaker 1: my body my energy field, it's like there is this

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Speaker 1: felt experience sometimes of it like shifting timelines backward and forward,

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Speaker 1: and you're just like, something has changed for someone in

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Speaker 1: my ancestry, something has changed for the child that hasn't

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Speaker 1: yet been thought of on earth that will be here,

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Speaker 1: and it's just, my god, it's just the most special thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely so sacred.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm feeling the tenderness too, and feeling you,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I just want to say, sometimes for

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Speaker 2: your listeners, I know you have amazing fan base, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes when we are listening to things like this, we

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Speaker 2: might be like, oh my gosh, what is this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I like to invite folks that are noticing signs of

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Speaker 2: resistance in their body to see if they can replace

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Speaker 2: that with curiosity, because I believe at the same time

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Speaker 2: that there is resistance that means that there's space for

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Speaker 2: a shift, that that discomfort that you feel is an opportunity.

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Speaker 2: Right those moments where you're researching, you're finding yourself, researching

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Speaker 2: lineage traditions, you miss you know, you put your keys

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Speaker 2: in a certain place, and now you go back to

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Speaker 2: look for them and they're not there.

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Speaker 1: These sensations that you know.

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Speaker 2: You might be feeling in your body of tingling on

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Speaker 2: your back right, or ringing in your ears, these moments

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Speaker 2: of inconsolable emotion, right, those are opportunities, openings, portals for

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Speaker 2: what I think you and I are both talking about

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Speaker 2: that we that we know intimately the dreams that you're having,

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Speaker 2: just inviting listeners to, you know, see that as a

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Speaker 2: place of curiosity and potentially a portal for their own healing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh, when a certain I think element of surrender happens

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Speaker 1: in your life and acceptance that it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is is present and it must be looked at.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there are.

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Speaker 1: Just these openings that appear all over, these portals that

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Speaker 1: appear all over that can give you. You know what

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Speaker 1: a friend many years ago, and of course I was studying,

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Speaker 1: said to me was it can happen in the twinkle

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Speaker 1: of an eye. And I know that to be so

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Speaker 1: deeply true. Now. It's like, if there is something that

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Speaker 1: is in your awareness, keep following it and keep noticing

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Speaker 1: where it shows up, and you know to what you

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Speaker 1: shared so beautifully. It's like, if there is a dream

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Speaker 1: that is lingering, something that is resonant, or something that

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Speaker 1: came up, sit in it, let yourself be with it,

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Speaker 1: bring it up for a review, because so often we

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Speaker 1: can heal things in ways that we never really imagined

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Speaker 1: by just noticing the openings every time they're there, the

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Speaker 1: portals every time, and walking through. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I center the experience of Bipock in my

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Speaker 2: work folks of a global majority, But I think this

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Speaker 2: work is for everyone. You mentioned intuition earlier, and that's

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Speaker 2: one of the pillars of the work. And also, I

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Speaker 2: believe living in bodies that the world insists on seeing

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Speaker 2: as broken instead of honoring and respecting and beginning from

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Speaker 2: a place of wholeness is hard. So I find it

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Speaker 2: completely rational to want to leave the body and live

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Speaker 2: outside of ourselves and may be safe safer that way.

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Speaker 2: But I talk about one of the biggest ruptures to

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Speaker 2: trauma in general. No matter who you are, your identities,

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Speaker 2: it could be this rupture to intuition, which is our

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Speaker 2: place of knowing. I believe our connection to all that

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Speaker 2: is greater than us. Again, that might be a god

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Speaker 2: creator au Risha intuition, sense of purpose, ancestors, and when

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Speaker 2: we live in our bodies, we're able to recognize those

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Speaker 2: sensations that you and I are talking about. It's hard

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Speaker 2: to recognize those, to acknowledge.

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Speaker 1: Them when we're not in our bodies.

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Speaker 2: And so I say to folks, prepare your intuition like

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Speaker 2: your life depends on it.

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Speaker 1: Because it does. It does, and from that.

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Speaker 2: Place we can start to heal ourselves from and inner

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Speaker 2: knowing versus externalizing our trusts and waiting for someone else

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Speaker 2: to tell us.

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Speaker 1: How to heal.

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Speaker 2: So earlier you use the word expert, I personally don't.

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Speaker 2: I'm an expert in my experience, but I help folks

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Speaker 2: remember how to trust themselves and their own intuition. I

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Speaker 2: think that is that's the goal. And folks that are

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Speaker 2: in touch with their intuition in their bodies are forces

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Speaker 2: of nature.

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Speaker 1: Deeply. Well. Something I'd like to ask is is there

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Speaker 1: anything different about the masculine journey to healing from sexual

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Speaker 1: trauma and any advice, any shares that you have for

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Speaker 1: our male listeners who might be embarking on this journey. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, at every intersection of identity, specifically for marginalized folks

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Speaker 2: my book is actually written for the full gender continuum

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Speaker 2: binary folks as well, but with mail and man identifying folks,

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Speaker 2: I think that the shame can be even more. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's not about trauma Olympics, but in the culture of secrecy.

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Speaker 2: For a man to out himself as a survivor of

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Speaker 2: sexual trauma comes with some things that are similar, but

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Speaker 2: also some things that are unique to that experience. And

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Speaker 2: so I want to say, I believe you too, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't make you less of a man to have

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Speaker 2: been violated.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't your fault.

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Speaker 2: I also talk about that the intersection of being transgender, right,

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Speaker 2: the prevalence of sexual trauma goes up with every marginalized identity,

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Speaker 2: and I do feel sad often that men and male

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Speaker 2: body folks are left out of the conversation. There are

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Speaker 2: fewer resources available as well. And everything that I've mentioned

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Speaker 2: today also is true for those experiences. They touch on

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Speaker 2: the male experience as well, the mind, body, heart, and

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Speaker 2: spirit piece as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that I if there was

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Speaker 2: one thing that when piece of medicine, it would be

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Speaker 2: defined community.

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Speaker 1: Find a safe space in the alienation. Yeah, finding community,

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Speaker 1: I think especially I think about men often in this

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Speaker 1: predicament because as you've called out, you know, there are

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Speaker 1: less resources. There does seem to be different layers of

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Speaker 1: stigma associated with it, and very often in our mainstream culture,

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Speaker 1: as I've seen it, it's played out into really specific

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Speaker 1: ways where if you're a male and you were abused

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Speaker 1: by women, it's just kind of like, oh, well, you

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Speaker 1: got some you know. It's kind of this thing where

438
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: I've seen even the reaction in the victim is to

439
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: laugh it off or to turn it into just something

440
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: about conquest or something about you know, just like male vitality.

441
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: And if it's a scenario where you're male and you

442
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: were violated by another male, then it brings a different

443
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: kind of layer of shame and shadow to it and

444
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: questioning or projections about how you identify sexually or what

445
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: that means about quote unquote like your ability to be

446
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: with a woman or hold it down your manhood. Yeah,

447
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: And it's just for so many men, especially just culturally

448
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: societally historically, men are allowed to feel so much less

449
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: than women and our society and it's expected that they

450
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: really don't feel anything. And so when I think about

451
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: all those layers on what an experience must be like

452
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: for a male identified survivor, it's it is such a

453
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: mountain and it changes everything. It changes how you know yourself.

454
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: Men are trained more so than women to really see

455
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: themselves through one kind of view, which is powerful or

456
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: provider or protector or you know, but something that doesn't

457
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: require an emotional life. And to unearth that it just

458
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: it takes tremendous courage and tremendous patience and tremendous presence. Absolutely.

459
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And again I want to invite anyone that's tuning in,

460
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: you know, because I want to share something, but it

461
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: might be a little bit graphic, So just take care

462
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: of yourself as you're listening. As you were sharing, I

463
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: was thinking about how often in the same conversation around oh,

464
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: men can't be sexually assaults, It may can't be raped, right,

465
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: especially by women, Sometimes people get it twisted around the

466
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: body's physiological and natural response. And so if a male

467
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: body person's body performs in a way that presents an erection,

468
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, you wanted that, right, And same with

469
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: female body folks that if there is physical arousal during

470
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 2: a sexual assault, that it meant that you wanted it,

471
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: and I want to address that, you know straightforward, that

472
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: is not the case. The body responds involuntarily without your

473
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: participation sometimes. And so the other piece that you named around,

474
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: what do you remember the second point that you meet.

475
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you are a victim at the hands of

476
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: another man.

477
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: Yes, and living in a homophobic society, yes, right, that

478
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: then there is insult to your manhood and even your character, right,

479
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: which can present for their alienation and isolation. So thank

480
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: you so much for bringing that to the table for conversation.

481
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

482
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: In my practice, I find that nobody folks will mention

483
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: it in the first couple of appointments and then it

484
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 2: will be a long time before they mention it again,

485
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: or they'll say, you know that thing that I told you, right,

486
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: they'll just kind of talk around it. And you know,

487
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: these are folks that I've been working with for years

488
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: that are still having a hard time even broaching the

489
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 2: topic right and also often experience frustration in their own

490
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: understanding of their sexuality. Yeah.

491
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, for anyone listening right now that may not be

492
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: a survivor of sexual abuse, but has a partner or

493
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: someone in their life that they care for and they

494
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: want to be more supportive for something they don't have

495
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: first hand experience. And what are some ways that we

496
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: can support people we love that are on this journey?

497
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, to absolutely believe them right, to not ask them

498
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 2: to tell you the story from beginning to end, to

499
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: make it real right, because that can be re traumatizing

500
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 2: for the person that experienced it and maybe potentially.

501
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: For you, you.

502
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: Know, listening and holding the story. I invite folks to

503
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 2: ask survivors of sexual trauma what they need in support.

504
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: To let them name it right, How can I support you?

505
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: What do you need?

506
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: Have you thought about this or have you thought about that?

507
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: Because experiencing sexual trauma means that power, agency and choice

508
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: we're stolen and stripped away. I like to invite community

509
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: to support nurturing, cultivating, nourishing, restoring those three things power,

510
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: choice and agency. So the more you can say what

511
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: do you need? How can I support you? And they

512
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: have a moment to decide, Oh, you know, I just

513
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 2: want you to be here next to me. Can I

514
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: have a hug? Can you help me find a therapist

515
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: that specializes and work with sexual trauma?

516
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: Do you know of any books? Right?

517
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: The more we can do that, the more we're supporting

518
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: that relationship with intuition beautiful.

519
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: Thank you. Some of the other work that you do

520
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: that I would love to really explore from the lens

521
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: of a psychologist, from the lens of trauma informed therapist.

522
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: You also work with the world of psychedelics and medicines

523
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: as part of the journey. I've shared on this show

524
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: to some extent that a part of my healing journey

525
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: was really kind of radically accelerated and deepened through my

526
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: own exploration with different medicines over the years. And I mean,

527
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: I can say this like so honestly, like my whole life,

528
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: I was definitely a square, like complete square, Like I

529
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: like watching commercials as a kid, like the Dare commercials

530
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: they worked on me. I was like, not my brain.

531
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that egg like so I

532
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: was very, very, very hyper vigilant in a lot of

533
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: ways even as I was on my healing journey. It's like, Okay,

534
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: I can heal with that not that you know. And

535
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: there were so many judgments present for me and so

536
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: many fears present of the unknown of how you'll react

537
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: to things, of what you'll come to know. And then

538
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: when I settled into my own experiences and I began exploring,

539
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: I realized for me how deeply I needed to be

540
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: disarmed in that way in order to get to the

541
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: depth of healing I needed in my journey. And I

542
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: will say that, especially working with certain medicines, the access

543
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 1: it gave me to my body, the awareness it gave

544
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: me to having this experience of being the soul in

545
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: the body, the spirit in the human experience, it just

546
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: profoundly changed me. So I would love to hear about

547
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: your work in that space and for anyone that is

548
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: considering it, who you think would be potentially a good

549
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: candidate for that exploration.

550
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you shared your experience. I love

551
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: that used the word disarmed and then talked about how

552
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: it made you the medicine supported you to be so

553
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: present in your body. And those may sound like a tradiction,

554
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: but if you know, you know kind of experience. So yeah,

555
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: I am really excited about what we're seeing happening with

556
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: these sacred medicines and their you know, re emergence in

557
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: the world and a way that is cloaked in liberation.

558
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: Right.

559
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 2: So the reasons that we have collectively these spears around

560
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: the medications is again, you know, white supremacy culture. Global

561
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: colonization created a sense of fear around these sacred plant

562
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 2: medicines that are ancient in their wisdoms and our are

563
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: our community to indigenous tradition. And so again where so

564
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 2: many of us are unlearning the internalized depression and fear

565
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 2: that we've taken in as a means of survival. And

566
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: at present, there are some sacred plant medicines that you

567
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 2: can use freely, right, and there are others that we're

568
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: working on being decriminalized. And so I look forward to

569
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 2: that moment. I can speak to some of my personal

570
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: journeys with psilocybin. Some sometimes are references magic mushrooms, right,

571
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: And I love them so much.

572
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: They're so wise. They're a heart medicine.

573
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: And and in my experience, similar to yours, there is

574
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: this profound experience of my soul and my spirits and

575
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: and that I'm having a human experience. And I feel

576
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,959
Speaker 2: when I'm in community with this medicine that I am

577
00:40:54,200 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: receiving the best hug, this long hug. And also so

578
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 2: I'm looking at things that are hard.

579
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: Right.

580
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: So the first time I had a sit I was

581
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 2: in Mexico with the teacher that I love and respect

582
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 2: and older. And in the first part of my journey,

583
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 2: I wept.

584
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: I wept.

585
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: I had experienced so much loss. I've experienced a number

586
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: of traumas throughout my life. And I was just sitting

587
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: there and I was rocking, and I was swaying, and

588
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 2: I just wept. Without my participation, these tears were falling

589
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: out of my eyes, and I would say, Oh, this

590
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 2: is recent, this is recent grief. Oh this is old.

591
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: It's like I was narrating my experience. And then the

592
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: second part of my journey was a keikey with my ancestors,

593
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: and it changed my life. It changed my life as

594
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: someone who sometimes feels really alone in the world. The

595
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: first voice I heard was an auntie of who I

596
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: lost in twenty eighteen. I grew up living next door

597
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: to her, and every time I walked in her house,

598
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: she would say, Hey, my baby, and that's how she

599
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: greeted me in my first medicine journey. And they left

600
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: me with the message that we are always this close.

601
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: And since then, the sensations of them are so palpable.

602
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: I can hear their voices in a way that I

603
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: wasn't before, So I get really excited as you can imagine,

604
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 2: given all the things we've talked about today, holding space

605
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 2: for folks to have that experience in their bodies and

606
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: in ways that opens conversation for the intergenerational healing, that

607
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 2: reaches backwards and in ways that literally changes the physiology

608
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: of the body, that changes us at a cellular level,

609
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: so that we aren't carrying these wounds and these traumas

610
00:42:53,239 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 2: and the pains forward.

611
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 1: Deeply. Well, can you talk about some of that last

612
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: piece that you were saying of, like the rewiring, you know,

613
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: some of the experiences or the ways that you relate

614
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: to some of the traumas, how that can shift and

615
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: change through a psychedelic or medicine experience. Yes, absolutely so.

616
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: One of the things we see that happens with complex

617
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 2: trauma PTSD anxiety depression is that it touches the nervous

618
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: system right, and instead of ideally we experience something that's difficult,

619
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: our nervous system, our parasympathetic nervous system activates. We might

620
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: find ourselves in the reaction of fight, flight, freeze, submit,

621
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: or attend and befriend as a result of that perception

622
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 2: of threat, whatever.

623
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: That moment is.

624
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: Ideally, we would come back down after that moment has

625
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: passed and we're now safe, come back to a baseline

626
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: where our nervous systems are cool, calm and chill. Ideally,

627
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: but we don't live in an idle world, as I

628
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: often say, especially at those intersections of marginalized identities and

629
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: within our context, and so what can happen is we

630
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: get stuck. We get stalled out in those activated spaces fight, flight, free, submit, tend,

631
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: and befriend, which means that we might experience hypervigilance, we

632
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: might experience anxiety sometimes you know that when you're breathing

633
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: in your chest space versus in your belly space. Right,

634
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: we all experienced anxiety.

635
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 1: Right.

636
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: The other piece is that we can find ourselves in

637
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: the opposite sort of under aroused zone where we're depressed,

638
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 2: we're numb, we have difficulty concentrating, being motivated to show

639
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: up for life. And so these medicines help to reset

640
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: the nervous system, reset the brain. For example, ketamine has

641
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of research that is showing a

642
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 2: connection between with its touch and healing around racialized trauma.

643
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: So it's like I.

644
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: Heard it once described as though you turn a computer

645
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: monitor off and then let it come back on, right,

646
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 2: turn it back on. So it's a rewiring of the brain.

647
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: Whereas other medicines like MDMA or psilocybin with their enheogens,

648
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: they work with more from a heart space, and they

649
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: make the sensations of trauma and PTSD, for example, they

650
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 2: make them more tolerable in the moment, so that you

651
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: can process traumatic content without being triggered the way you

652
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: would about the medicine. And so that's the that's the

653
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: like the key, the magic wand and I say magic.

654
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 2: It isn't magic, right, it is ancient medicine, but it

655
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: can feel magical.

656
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,399
Speaker 1: It can feel magical. Just I'm going to add this then,

657
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: just for a little bit of fun, but also for

658
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: insight for those that have been following the Kendrick Lamar

659
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: and Drake beef, which first off, King Kendrick, I mean

660
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: all day, all day, all day. One of the things

661
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: that Kendrick said in his songs is that he recommended

662
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: that Drake should do ayahuasca. So I would love to

663
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: hear from you about the ayahuasca ayahuasca journey and how

664
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 1: that may be best used. Yes, what a fun question.

665
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I post it recently on my Instagram this meme

666
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,959
Speaker 2: that says I might not be your cup of tea,

667
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 2: and actually I'm not likely a team.

668
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm Ayahuasca.

669
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 2: Ayahuasca is the mother, the great Mother of the sacred

670
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: plant medicines and.

671
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: So special, so special.

672
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 2: Uh.

673
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: Many folks you might talk to.

674
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: That have sat with Mother Aya made talk about how

675
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: it's like it's the real deal, right, how it can

676
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: feel really intense, how it's the most.

677
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: Loving drag so for king, just this long, long journey,

678
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: a long journey and the most loving drag.

679
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 2: Right, those are the worst that always come to mind.

680
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: It is the read of all reads and the rebirth

681
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 2: of all rebirths. And we know that in or to

682
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: experience rebirth, we have to die, right, And so my

683
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 2: mother Aya Mama Ayah holds us in that sacred moment

684
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 2: of letting things go, letting things die, so that we

685
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: can be transformed.

686
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: And so you know, for for Kendrick to suggest that

687
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: to drink, I support it. I support it, you know,

688
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: I support it. I just I think it could really

689
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: elevate the songmaking you know, right content in using women.

690
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 2: That's right, that is right to sit with the Great mother.

691
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: See even more like brilliance from Kendrick, like, just when

692
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: you think you've seen, you know, you've gotten to the

693
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: little the paradox, the other end of something. He said,

694
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: there is more, There is more. Oh my god, that

695
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: was something else I will be discussing, not on a

696
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: solo episode soon.

697
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, I feel like there's often this conversation

698
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: about Kendrick that his music we don't hear in the

699
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: clubs is not a dance vibe, you know, it's they're

700
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: not necessarily catchy, but that he takes us to depths

701
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: and places that sometimes we're afraid to go to. And

702
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 2: so I think his music is a portal if we

703
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: allow it to be. And in the same ways that

704
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: we might be avoiding looking at hard things, you know,

705
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: we might not be feeling Kendrick's music for some of

706
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: those same reasons. Right, but listen to it. Listen, go

707
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,439
Speaker 2: back and listen after this, after this episode, and see

708
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 2: what you hear that maybe you didn't before.

709
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: He makes medicine music. Yeah, Ko is a healer, always

710
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: been a healer, and even yeah, well I've been talking

711
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: about this at length and so many group chats, but

712
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, he makes music for thinkers, He makes music

713
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: for healers. He makes music for feelers, for people that

714
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: have had complex lived experiences, for those that don't want

715
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: to skate on the surface. And there is a time

716
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: and a place for every kind of music. And obviously

717
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: Drake is immensely talented. We cannot in any way take

718
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: that away from him. Credible songwriter, delivery all of it,

719
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: and to me, makes very harmful music that keeps people

720
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: stuck in place and kind of keeps us existing and

721
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: skating on that surface level of experiencing life. And when

722
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: you're ready to go deeper, right, there's more.

723
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, music can certainly be medicine. And I like to

724
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: talk about sometimes and think about in my own experiences

725
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 2: what makes a shaman. Right, they often say that what

726
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: makes a shaman is in me your death experience, and

727
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: the wisdom that someone can pull from that becomes a

728
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 2: way that they're able to guide and connect. And so

729
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 2: I like to think about that too in the context

730
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: of this conversation. Right, when you, when you're humble enough

731
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: to learn from your near death experiences, right, the micro

732
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 2: ones and the macro ones, what you create changes, how

733
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: you create changes, Let it change you, Let it change you.

734
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 1: As we get ready to close out this episode, I

735
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: would like to ask you, Doctor Sheena. We offer a

736
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: little bit of soul work up the end of every episode,

737
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 1: So as everyone has listened to this episode and until

738
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: we meet again next week, if you have any soul

739
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: work that could help integrate what was just heard and

740
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: a new way to maybe experience or explore it over

741
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: the course of this next week, I would love for

742
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: you to share.

743
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for that invitation. I'd love

744
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 2: to take us through a very short meditation if that's

745
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: okay with please okay, So as you're watching, I invite

746
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 2: you to choose a comfortable seated shape. You might feel

747
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: your feet making contact with the earth or the floor

748
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 2: if that feels accessible, allowing the hands to full gently

749
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 2: to rest on the lap, or maybe placing one hand

750
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 2: over the heart when over the belly, both over the

751
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 2: belly your choice, and feeling the support underneath the feet,

752
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: the sensation of being held up, and then allowing the head,

753
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: the crown of the head to reach toward the sky,

754
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 2: toward all the possibilities, inviting a moment to breathe, to

755
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: connect with the breath, and then allowing the eyes to

756
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: make a choice.

757
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: As well, closing.

758
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 2: Softly, gazing down, or remaining open, and when it feels right, beloved,

759
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: I invite you to search your body, search the place

760
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 2: where your intuition lives. Where in your body does your

761
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: intuition live? And if it feels right, I invite you

762
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 2: to place your hands there or simply bring your inner

763
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: awareness to that space, taking a moment to notice, to

764
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: cherish the connection, to breathe into it, to express gratitude

765
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 2: for it.

766
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: For five.

767
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 2: Four, three, two and one, gently guiding yourself back to

768
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: the present, remembering that you can come back to this place,

769
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 2: and I hope you will as much as you need,

770
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 2: blinking the eyes open if they're closed, allowing the eyes

771
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: to float up to the horizon.

772
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Your book Body Rights is available now.

773
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,439
Speaker 1: And how can everyone connect with you and your work

774
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: for their please stay closed. You can connect with me

775
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: via my website www dot Embodied Truth Healing. I am

776
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 1: on Instagram under the same handle at Embodied Truth Healing

777
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: and on TikTok at Shina Dot means dot opens the way.

778
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 1: So beautiful, doctor Sheina Young, thank you so much for joining.

779
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much, honored to have you here,

780
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: and thank you for your word. Thank you. We'll be

781
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: back next week now, Mistay Sday, Sday. The content presented

782
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: on Deeply Wells serves solely for educational and informational purposes.

783
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: It should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical

784
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: or mental health guidance and non constitute a provider patient relationship.

785
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare

786
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions

787
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,439
Speaker 1: that you may have. Connect with me on social at

788
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go

789
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're

790
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget. Please rate, review,

791
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply

792
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network.

793
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 1: It's produced by Jacquess Thomas, Samantha Timmins and me Debbie Brown.

794
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: The Beautiful Soundback You Heard That's by Jarrelen Glass from

795
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio

796
00:56:48,480 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. As

797
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: a