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Speaker 1: Mhm, welcome back to Behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 2: That's your normal voice.

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Speaker 1: Robert does it.

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Speaker 2: Robert does a different voice for when he's when he's.

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Speaker 1: But that's the actual voice. I sneakily revealed it. So

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Speaker 1: now you can ai my voice and convince my loved ones.

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Speaker 1: I've been kidnapped and ransom. Why not it's fun not

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Speaker 1: for it will be fun ish, Yeah, because you're the

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Speaker 1: one who's gonna get get robbed, Sophie, I know, speaking

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Speaker 1: of things getting lost, I gotta I got something I

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Speaker 1: want to deal with here. So I got some I

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Speaker 1: got some policing we need to do here because people

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Speaker 1: are people are people have gotten too Twitter brained, right,

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Speaker 1: And I say this as someone whouses Twitter too much.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not. I'm not coming out of this

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Speaker 1: from like a moralizing standpoint, right Like I'm I'm let

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Speaker 1: me start this by saying, like I've definitely you like

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Speaker 1: have a problematic relationship with Twitter. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: be judgmental, but like, this shit needs to stop. And specifically,

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Speaker 1: I think that made me realize it. As we record this,

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Speaker 1: it's like a day after the United States Marine Corps,

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Speaker 1: like an airbase announced like Hey, guys, one of our

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Speaker 1: F thirty fives went missing. The pilot leapt out during

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Speaker 1: flight for reasons that we will not explain to you,

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Speaker 1: left it on autopilot, and we don't know where it is.

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Speaker 1: We don't even know if it's crashed. Like, we have

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Speaker 1: no idea where this amazing multimillion dollar like it cost

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Speaker 1: a trillion dollars to eighty million dollars to manufacture plane win,

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Speaker 1: no idea. If you see it, give us a call

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Speaker 1: at this number, Like it's a cat, Like it's someone's

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Speaker 1: cat who got out. They're just like, hey, guys, mister sniffles,

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Speaker 1: the F thirty five is lost. Give us a ring

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Speaker 1: if you see him. Don't try to chase him, Like.

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Speaker 2: For real, high is that possible, like that something can

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Speaker 2: be lost in airspace. I just assumed it crash when

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Speaker 2: I saw the eject and from the headline, I assumed.

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Speaker 1: It probably has. But like they so, it's a stealth plane. Right.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons why this is the problem is

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Speaker 1: that like that is legitimately an issue. So most every

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Speaker 1: plane that's not like an army plane, right, that's not

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Speaker 1: some sort of like government you know, jet has what's

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Speaker 1: what's called an ADSB. I think that's the name of it,

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Speaker 1: Like it's a transponder that lets you know where all

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Speaker 1: of the aircraft are, right, because that's important to making

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Speaker 1: sure they don't hit each other. Military and government aircraft

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Speaker 1: don't have to have that right, and if you're running

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Speaker 1: a stealth plane, you wouldn't necessarily want that on right,

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Speaker 1: So I think that's probably anyway, it doesn't matter. This

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Speaker 1: is funny, and it's it's funny. Specifically, I made a

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Speaker 1: comment online about like this being America being the only

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Speaker 1: country that could both develop you know, this fucking trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar like hyperadvanced weapons platform and lose it and need

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Speaker 1: to just like go to Twitter to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: everybody keep an eye out right. No other country could do,

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Speaker 1: and people like a bunch of people got like angry

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Speaker 1: and started defending the like well trying to lose his

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Speaker 1: planes too. It's like that number one. It's not the

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Speaker 1: point number two. Like they're like, why are you trying to, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, defend the like why are you trying to

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Speaker 1: like attack the US government over this, or like why

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Speaker 1: are you trying to pretend the Chinese government is I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing any of that it's funny, and it's specifically

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Speaker 1: funny that we are treating a lost hyper advanced self

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Speaker 1: craft like a lost cat. That's all. That's all. Not

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Speaker 1: making a point about politics, not making a point about

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Speaker 1: like the d od not making any kind of political point.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of funny. What on Twitter has ruined

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Speaker 1: our ability to just like laugh about this stuff.

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Speaker 2: We lost. So here's what happened. We misplaced our F

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Speaker 2: thirty five. Not a big deal. Not a big deal.

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Speaker 2: If anyone sees that shit, hit me up the deed.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, Like my dream is that the auto pilots

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Speaker 1: set it down safely somewhere in North Carolina and it's

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Speaker 1: just in a man's barn. Right now, some guy just

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Speaker 1: tell that ship back and it's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I haven't made up my mind as to how I'm

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Speaker 1: going to deal with this, but I got it now.

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Speaker 2: I mean this would. Yeah, this is such a great

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Speaker 2: opening to an actual James Bond movie because now it's

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Speaker 2: just this person should really just in the interest of

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Speaker 2: everyone learning their lesson, try to sell it to Russia

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Speaker 2: at this point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just try sure, just like a maring call the

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Speaker 1: Russian embassy. Hey, guys, I got something you might be

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Speaker 1: interested in. Like I will tell you right now, if

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Speaker 1: this were me, you know, if I if I lived

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Speaker 1: out in the in the boonies and gained control of

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Speaker 1: an F thirty five, the only thing that I would

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Speaker 1: do with it, because I think it's really the only

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Speaker 1: thing to do with it, because I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to fly a plane. I don't know that like any

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Speaker 1: normal pilot knows how to. I'm sure there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of special training to fly this specific plane, right otherwise

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Speaker 1: it's a fucking death trap. I would just drag it out,

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Speaker 1: like tow it out into my yard every couple of

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Speaker 1: months and just shoot at it, you know, just just

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Speaker 1: fucking shoot at it with my rifles, you know, just

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Speaker 1: play around see what happens. In part because when I

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Speaker 1: would try to make friends with the AI, turn it on,

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Speaker 1: see if you can talk it out, ur chat gpt

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 2: I think we could. I think we could iron giant

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Speaker 2: it with the AI. I think you turned this one

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Speaker 2: into the good play super mun Yeah, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of ideas.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of ideas, folks. Sometimes you need to

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Speaker 1: just be able to enjoy the world when beautiful things

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Speaker 1: happen beautiful things like the F thirty five going missing,

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Speaker 1: like like doing a homeward bound with our Apocalypse fighter

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Speaker 1: gott to get led back to home by like a

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Speaker 1: fucking rogued chinook.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so cute.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So we're talking about g Gordon Liddies still for

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Speaker 1: so many, so many five hours now something like that anyway,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean close. Yeah, when we left off, he

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Speaker 1: had just gotten shit canned by the Treachery Department for

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Speaker 1: rank and competence and repeatedly comparing stuff to the Holocaust

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Speaker 1: for no reason.

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Speaker 2: Well, it does seem pretty clear he was never fired

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Speaker 2: for the for the SS stuff. Yeah, is the weirdest

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Speaker 2: part of all of that.

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Speaker 1: That is fair? Yeah, because like I feel like there

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Speaker 1: is an amount of comparing things unnecessarily to the SS

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Speaker 1: that you should be fired for. Right, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that amount is. Precise is really low. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's high, right, I think it should be once yeah, once, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you get one freebie and then everyone's like, man, stop

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Speaker 1: falling asleep to the fucking History channel.

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Speaker 2: Like comes past. He's past where I think the number

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Speaker 2: should be significantly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good to know. I'm glad that we're I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that where it's like you're it's like your fucking

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Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon number, right, you're here your unnecessary SS references number.

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Speaker 1: So Lyddy is getting forced out of the UH of

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Speaker 1: the Treasury Department. This is a real embarrassment for him,

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Speaker 1: so he completely ignores it in his autobiography in favor

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Speaker 1: of telling a long story about his sons getting bullied

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Speaker 1: at school and how he taught them like, the only

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Speaker 1: way to respond to bullies is like violence is immediately

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Speaker 1: escalating to violence, And the school is like, that's not

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Speaker 1: what we like our students to do here at this

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Speaker 1: private school. We would prefer they not immediately go to violence.

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Speaker 1: And his wife is also like, I don't think this

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Speaker 1: is a good lesson to give the kids, right, I

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Speaker 1: think they're probably going to wind up creating more problems

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Speaker 1: for themselves that they respond this way. And so when

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Speaker 1: the school and his wife are both like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think are at are to them as immediately respond to

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Speaker 1: with violence to kids like making fun of them, Lyddy's

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Speaker 1: response to that is that before World War Two, they

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Speaker 1: French school started eduscate cating children not to respond violently.

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Speaker 1: They tried to stop kids from fighting in schools, and

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Speaker 1: then in World War Two, the French lost because German

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Speaker 1: kids had been taught to be aggressive and get into

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Speaker 1: fights at schools. So I'm going to do what the

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Speaker 1: Germans did and teach my kids to get into pointless fights. Now,

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Speaker 1: first off, yet another unnecessary Nazi reference. Second's really what

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Speaker 1: happened next? G Gordon Liddy Like, you're right, You're right.

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Speaker 1: The French did lose the first part of that war.

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Speaker 1: What happened next to the Germans? How far did starting

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Speaker 1: fights in every conceivable situation take Germany?

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Speaker 2: It's really just like, like, imagine being so convinced of

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Speaker 2: your rightness and having so little attention Spad that like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's like a real like first act of every movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah a guy, Yeah, what happened? Let's say two years later?

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Speaker 1: Gordon Lyddy like where were where was Germany? Then? And

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Speaker 1: obviously this works the same way for his kids pretty

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Speaker 1: much that it does for Germany. And that the fact

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Speaker 1: that they're told like escalate physically, and like they're not

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Speaker 1: big kids, right, I think they're getting made fun of

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Speaker 1: and like, so they start escalating things physically and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work out well for them, and in fact, not

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Speaker 1: only do kids not stop bullying them, but teens from

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Speaker 1: the local high school escalate and it's very funny. In

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Speaker 1: his book, Lyddy notes that like like, when describing these

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Speaker 1: teens that are gonna harass him and his kids at

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Speaker 1: their house, he notes, many of them larger, are larger

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Speaker 1: than me. Yeah, I am smaller than a child. So

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Speaker 1: some of these kids escalate to egging his house and

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Speaker 1: the family cars and throwing firecrackers at the Liddy house

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Speaker 1: at night, I think because they realize that, like, the

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Speaker 1: dad's a maniac too, so we can really fuck with

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Speaker 1: this family now. Lyddy knows he can't call the cops because,

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Speaker 1: in his mind, we live in a dangerous part of

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Speaker 1: and they've got enough on their plate. I gotta handle

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Speaker 1: this on my own, right like he's he's, he's, And

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Speaker 1: the way he writes this all out is very much

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Speaker 1: like fucking Liam Neeson and taken, where he's like, I

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Speaker 1: have a very particular set of skills that makes me

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Speaker 1: a nightmare to a fifteen year old like you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess that's true. That is undeniable.

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Speaker 1: He starts staying up at night and like waiting for

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Speaker 1: the kids to show up, uh, and then like when

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Speaker 1: they come out, he like chases them and gets one

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Speaker 1: of these children in a headlock. And then he he says,

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Speaker 1: one of the kids pulls a knife, and he explains

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Speaker 1: in detail, I will break that knife into pieces and

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Speaker 1: use him to like like cut this kid, Like I'll

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Speaker 1: kill you if you fucking pull that knife out on me.

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Speaker 1: And like Number one, I don't I don't really believe

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Speaker 1: that a knife got pulled on him. Number Two, he

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Speaker 1: tells that stories if it makes him look cool. He

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Speaker 1: never provides evidence that these kids actually had done anything,

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Speaker 1: Like theoretically, he just chased down and choked a child,

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Speaker 1: Like there's no evidence given to us that shows anything

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Speaker 1: but that, like there's a real reason for him to

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Speaker 1: chase these kids because he's a maniac, Like he just

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Speaker 1: is pretty sure these are the kids, so he attacks

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Speaker 1: them in the street.

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Speaker 2: There's like no version of this in the real life

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Speaker 2: version that didn't end with him getting pantsd right.

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Speaker 1: No, for sure, they fell down as he was chasing them.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't know that I actually believe any of

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Speaker 1: that he actually even caught a kid. But if he did,

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Speaker 1: and if a kid pulled a knife. My guess is that,

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Speaker 1: like these kids were walking past the house and he

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Speaker 1: suddenly runs out, screaming and attacks one, and some kid

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Speaker 1: pulls a pocket knife because he's like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what else to do in this situation. Yeah, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: like that's probably how it goes. Nothing like, at no

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Speaker 1: point does this. This is not like whether or not

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Speaker 1: he actually got the culprits. They don't stop throwing eggs

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Speaker 1: at his house, right, Like, the minor vandalism continues, And

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Speaker 1: here's what he writes about A week later, another egg

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Speaker 1: hit the house. So I took to patrolling the alleys

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Speaker 1: on my own. Now I was hunting them. That's just

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Speaker 1: batman on them. He's like actively wandering the neighborhood at

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Speaker 1: night looking for teenagers to fight. Oh my god, that

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Speaker 1: spoiled all their fun and I assumed one complained to

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Speaker 1: his parents. One evening, as I was cleaning my gun collection,

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Speaker 1: which was spread out for that purpose over newspapers on

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Speaker 1: the dining room table, many of the pistols disassembled. I

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Speaker 1: received a telephone call. A neighbor wanted to talk to

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Speaker 1: me about my nocturnal activities. I told him, fun, come

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Speaker 1: on over figuring he was one of the father of

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Speaker 1: one of the vandals. I wanted to talk to him.

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Speaker 1: So first off, in the book, Liddy lays out all

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Speaker 1: of the different guns and descriptions of what and by

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Speaker 1: the way, nearly all of them German. Right, all of

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Speaker 1: these are like fucking lugers, Like they're all old Nazi guns.

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Speaker 1: That's the only kind of gun he buys, Cowboy revolvers

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Speaker 1: and Nazi pistols. That's it for g Gordon Lyddy. So

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Speaker 1: he lays out all of this and he like spends

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Speaker 1: all this to tail on these guns that are laying out,

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Speaker 1: and then this guy comes over and Lyddy, he clearly

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Speaker 1: is like wants us to believe that like this terrified

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Speaker 1: the man that he like sees, Oh my god, Lyddy's

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Speaker 1: got all these guns. I better not fuck with him.

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Speaker 1: There's he doesn't even provide in this story and the

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Speaker 1: evidence that this has an impact on the guy, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the dude is like, you need to stop hunting

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Speaker 1: children in the night, right, And yeah, Lyddy is like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to stop hunting children in the night.

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Speaker 1: And the guy says, well you should, and like it's

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Speaker 1: kind of over, like there's no evidence that his guns

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Speaker 1: had any influence on any of this, Like, we don't

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Speaker 1: need to know this, it's completely irrelevant, right, But eventually

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Speaker 1: kids stop egging his house, like, not even immediately. They

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Speaker 1: keep going for a while, and I think it just

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Speaker 1: peters out because children don't do anything forever. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: he's like, it was clearly because I how scared this

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Speaker 1: man was of my guns. It's like, no, man, they

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Speaker 1: kept egging your fucking house. You did nothing. You had

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Speaker 1: no influence on this situation.

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Speaker 2: That's really arkable that he didn't wind up getting like

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Speaker 2: his ass kicked by the neighborhood dads.

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Speaker 1: I think he might, I don't. I think there's a

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Speaker 1: non zero chance that, like one night, when he's going

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Speaker 1: batman on some children, he gets hit in the face

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Speaker 1: with an egg and gets like a staph infection in

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Speaker 1: his eye. Look, there's as much evidence for that as

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Speaker 1: anything Lyddy.

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Speaker 2: Claims for real. Jesus Christ, what a maniac.

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Speaker 1: What a funny funny man so. Lyddy also claims that

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Speaker 1: he found during his time before getting shit Canned a

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Speaker 1: stack of Treasury Department badges laying around the office that

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Speaker 1: weren't real badges that were made up for the CIA

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Speaker 1: for CIA men who needed a cover, and so he

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Speaker 1: stole one, and that allowed him to carry a gun

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Speaker 1: anywhere in the country. Again, at no point does g.

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Speaker 1: Gordon Liddy ever do anything involving a gun. This is

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Speaker 1: not relevant. There is no question that is answered by

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Speaker 1: the fact that he theoretically has the CIA badge, Like,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't do anything with that. We don't ever need disinformation.

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Speaker 1: He just cannot he like it is he he emotionally

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Speaker 1: he needs us to know he always had a gun

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Speaker 1: on him, Like he can't stand the fact that we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know that. It's so funny.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Also, I kind of don't believe that, Like I believe

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Speaker 1: the CIA gave people fake covers using other government agencies. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that they left their badgesting out in

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Speaker 1: the Treasury Department in a big bile where G. Gordon

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Speaker 1: Lenny could grab one. I do believe that he illegally

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Speaker 1: carried a firearm for years. I'll give him that. I'll

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Speaker 1: give him that. I bet he's I bet he broke those.

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Speaker 2: Laws just like a stack of fake badges. Yeah, somehows

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Speaker 2: would let you carry a gun illegally, just sitting by

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Speaker 2: the coffee machine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just like hanging out. Oh yeah, that's our

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Speaker 1: Cia badges. Don't take one g Gordon Lenny to let

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Speaker 1: you carry a gun anywhere you want. So again he

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Speaker 1: dedicates pages after this to talking, like telling all these

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Speaker 1: fake stories about how bad his neighborhood is in DC,

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Speaker 1: and he he cannot again every time he encounters a

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Speaker 1: black person, he lets you know, right, and he tells.

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Speaker 1: One of the stories he tells is that like one night,

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Speaker 1: this like black man knocks on the door and G.

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Speaker 1: Gordon Liddy pulls a forty five and threatens to shoot

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Speaker 1: him with it, and again provides no evidence this man

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Speaker 1: wanted to do anything illegal, that like this was anything

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Speaker 1: but like a guy coming to his door by mistake,

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Speaker 1: but by god, G Gordon Liddy is going to point

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Speaker 1: a firearm at a stranger. Great man hero.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Lyddy gets pushed out of the Treasury Department. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure why. Maybe it's that he had made

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Speaker 1: enough friends, maybe it's that he had some lingering family connections.

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Speaker 1: But they can't they don't feel like they can get

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Speaker 1: rid of him entirely, right, So instead of immediately pushing

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Speaker 1: lyddy out. They like, they find a job for him,

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Speaker 1: they get switch him to a new boss, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: you can stay here for a while, but you need

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Speaker 1: to find something else. So don't let it be too long. Right,

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Speaker 1: And it just so happens that this is this is

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Speaker 1: the point at which Liddy wipes up in the Nixon

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Speaker 1: White House. Right, So this is the at this point

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Speaker 1: his career is was an FBI agent, got forced out

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Speaker 1: for incompetence, was a worked for the DA's office, probably

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Speaker 1: got forced out for incompetence, ran for office, lost badly,

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Speaker 1: And then was that the Treasury apartment got forced out

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Speaker 1: for incompetence. Right? That is g Gordon Liddy's working career

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Speaker 1: at this point. Right, luckily for you know him, unlucky

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Speaker 1: and luckily for his coworkers at Treasury, but unluckily for

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Speaker 1: Richard Nixon and the rest of the country. The collapse

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Speaker 1: of his career at Treasury occurred right alongside an event

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Speaker 1: of much greater historic importance, the release of the Pentagon papers.

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Speaker 1: I have you heard about this? Do you know what?

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Speaker 1: Like the Pentingon papers were.

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Speaker 2: Was not enough? Actually, I'm happy to learn.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you an overview here because people need to

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Speaker 1: know this, especially since Daniel Ellsberg, the guy who's kind

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Speaker 1: of behind the leak of these, just died very recently.

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Speaker 1: The Pentagon Papers were an internal history of the Vietnam

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Speaker 1: War from nineteen forty five to nineteen sixty seven, commissioned

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Speaker 1: by the Defense Department. Right, it was this kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, again, the Defence Department is completely morally in

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Speaker 1: the wrong about most conflicts it's in post World War two.

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Speaker 1: But this is a reasonable thing to do. Right, You've

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Speaker 1: just had this big disaster of a war, right, and

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Speaker 1: it's like it's going terribly. It's been going terribly in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, it's still going on. Should probably sit

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Speaker 1: down and like try to lay out all the facts

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Speaker 1: about what happened and to figure out like what the

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Speaker 1: fuck went on here? Right, reasonable thing to want to do.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: Among the fun facts revealed in the Pentagon Papers was

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Speaker 1: the fact that, despite President Johnson's claim to the contrary,

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Speaker 1: at no point were we involved in Vietnam to help

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Speaker 1: South Vietnam.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The papers include the admission from the US government we

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Speaker 1: were there because we were in conflict with China.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and others had come to

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Speaker 1: a view China as a Nazi like expansionist threat to

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Speaker 1: the entirety of Asia, and that's why we got involved

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Speaker 1: in Vietnam. It had nothing to do with supporting democracy

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Speaker 1: in South Vietnam, especially since South Vietnam was not really

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Speaker 1: functionally democracy or at least most of its history, Like

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Speaker 1: it was just because of our fears about China. Right,

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Speaker 1: That's one of the things we get out of the

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Speaker 1: Pentagon Papers. The papers also contained evidence of US involvement

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixty three South Vietnamese coup and the

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Speaker 1: assassination of President DM. And there's always been like these

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Speaker 1: theories that did the US have this guy fucking iced

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Speaker 1: and like yes, basically yes, right. And there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other very shady or outright criminal acts that are

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Speaker 1: kind of revealed in the Pentagon Papers because these are

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Speaker 1: not meant for public release.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The guy, one of the guys who compiles this report

383
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Speaker 1: is a Rand Corporation employee named Daniel Ellsberg. Prior to

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Speaker 1: working for the Rand Corporation, Elsberg had worked for the

385
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Speaker 1: CIA on a rural pacification campaign in Vietnam, so he

386
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Speaker 1: was one of the guys doing shady, dangerous shit for

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Speaker 1: the US in Vietnam. He had also been an aid

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Speaker 1: to Hank Kissinger, So like, this is a guy who

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Speaker 1: was pretty intimately involved in everything that's going on. And

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Speaker 1: as a result of kind of that process of some

391
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Speaker 1: of the things he sees, and as a result of

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Speaker 1: being part of the assembly of these Pentagon papers, he

393
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Speaker 1: gets against the war. Right now, there's some other again,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to give a comprehensive thing here, there's

395
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Speaker 1: some other like arguments over like Ellsberg and like why

396
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: he did what he did. But that's the broad story

397
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: and it's generally accurate. And in nineteen sixty nine he

398
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: leaks some of these papers to a New York Times

399
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Speaker 1: journalist and the whole thing blows up from there. The

400
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 1: time starts writing these stories about all this shady and

401
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 1: illegal shit that people had suspected for years about US

402
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: conduct and Vietnam, and because Nixon's the president, all of

403
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: this shit kind of winds up on his desk and

404
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: it it super charges the protest movement, the anti war movement,

405
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 1: and suddenly like they're surrounding the White House and like

406
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Speaker 1: fucking box trucks and National guardsmen to keep away the

407
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 1: crowds of protesters, Like it's this massive mass of Like

408
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Speaker 1: the Nixon campaign, it has fears that, like the protesters

409
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Speaker 1: might breach the fucking perimeter, right, Like that's a worry

410
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Speaker 1: for a while that they've got. Well that's crazy, that'll

411
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: never ever, that'll never happen again. So what's relevant to

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Speaker 1: us today about the Pentagon Papers is that they have

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Speaker 1: a massive impact on the paranoia of one Richard M.

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Speaker 1: Nixon president. Right. This is when you hear about Nixon

415
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Speaker 1: being a paranoid maniac. The Pentagon Papers are a big

416
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Speaker 1: part of why, because he becomes convinced they don't know

417
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Speaker 1: for a while who's done it. They've become eventually aware

418
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Speaker 1: it was probably Ellsberg, But like there's all these fears

419
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Speaker 1: about like who's a leaker? Who can we trust? You know,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to screw us, however, trying to fuck me

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Speaker 1: out of the White House. So I'm going to quote

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Speaker 1: now from a very readable history of the Watergate scandal,

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Speaker 1: a book called King Richard by Michael Dobbs. When The

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Speaker 1: New York Times began publishing a classified history of the

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Speaker 1: war known as the Pentagon Papers in June nineteen seventy one,

426
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Speaker 1: Kissinger exploded, this will totally destroy American credibility forever, he raged,

427
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Speaker 1: no foreign government will ever trust us again. The president

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Speaker 1: needed little persuading that draconian action was necessary. According to

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Speaker 1: Haldeman and Haldeman's Nixon's a chief staff. I think Henry

430
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Speaker 1: got Nixon cranked up, and then they started cranking each

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Speaker 1: other up until they were both in a frenzy. This

432
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: in turn inspired the creation of a special investigations unit

433
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 1: to track down leakers of government documents. The teams set

434
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: up shop in a war of offices on the ground

435
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: floor of the Executive Office Building known as Room sixteen.

436
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: Because they were charged with plugging leaks, unit members jokingly

437
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: affixed a sign to the entryway that went read simply plumbers.

438
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: Gordon Liddy and Howard Hunt were among the first recruits.

439
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: So pretty reasonable, Like understand not reasonable, We understandable. Story, Right,

440
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: there's a leak. Nixon goes crazy. He's like, I need

441
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: guys to fix leaks, and g Gordon Liddy, how are

442
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: because he's being forced out, Lyddy gets stuck in in

443
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: this job, right, like this is where he gets moved to,

444
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: and this is kind of a dream for his Like

445
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: a guy who fucks up as much as Liddy, you

446
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't reward with a white House gig, but they do. So. Yeah,

447
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: this is his dream. This is his chance to do

448
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: all the spy shit that he dreamed about, all the

449
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: shit he'd read about in books as a little kid

450
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: and stuff like. Now he's got a chance to be

451
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: that guy.

452
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 3: Right.

453
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: So, Lyddy proved the FBI right for firing him almost

454
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: instantly by sitting down with his new colleagues and insisting

455
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: there investigations unit should be based on. You want to

456
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: make a guess as to what he thinks they should base.

457
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 2: Their new unit on.

458
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: You want to make a guess, Andrew, what organization do

459
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: you think he argans back to in a history? It's

460
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: the SS Yeah, yeah, once again, it always he does.

461
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 2: It's so weird that he's not aware that they lost

462
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 2: the war.

463
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, that it didn't work, that it was that the

464
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 4: whole country gets destroyed, that Germany is shattered in a

465
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 4: way that almost no nation in history has ever been shattered.

466
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: But uh no, he's like, you know who, I think

467
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: we should take a page out of their book for

468
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: our our illegal spying unit in the White House is

469
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: the fucking SS. Here's what he writes. Our organization had

470
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: been directed to eliminate subversion of the secrets of the administration.

471
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: So I created an acronym using the initial letter of

472
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: those descripted words. It appealed to me because when I organize,

473
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: I'm inclined to think of German terms. And the acronym

474
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: was also used by a World War Two German veterans

475
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: organization belonged to by some acquaintances of mine, Odessa. On

476
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: the blackboard in German. For clarity and added security, I

477
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: diagrammed the new Odessa organization. Have you heard of Odessa? Andrew,

478
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: do you know who these guys were? Oh?

479
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 2: My god, I mean not enough?

480
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Odessa is not a real organization. For one,

481
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: it was never like a group called Odessa. It was

482
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: a code name US Intelligence came up with to describe

483
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: a mix of different smaller organizations and like escape plans

484
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: by different Nazi war criminals, specifically generally members of the

485
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: SS who had been responsible for the Holocaust. Odessa was

486
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: the name that intelligence gave all these plans to get

487
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: them out of Europe and generally over to Latin America. Right, So,

488
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: Lyddy is like, I want to base our intel network

489
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: on the group that helped SS war criminals, some of

490
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: whom are my friends get away from Europe of void justice. Yeah,

491
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: you know the guys who Adolf Aikman and Joseph Mangela

492
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: get away. That's who I want to And it's also yeah.

493
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: That's no just fucking oh god, it's Jesus Christ.

494
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: What a note. What a fucking note to have be

495
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: the only thing that you do. And we'll talk about

496
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: one other thing that g Gordon Lyddy does. But first, Andrew,

497
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: maybe two plugs you know, we might have a couple

498
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: of plugs in there.

499
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 2: Well, we're not plugging leaks.

500
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: We're not We're not plugging leaks. So we're back from

501
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,239
Speaker 1: outer space. Andrew, I just walked in. Wow, I think

502
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: I've made that. I think I made that reference before. Anyway,

503
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: you definitely have.

504
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: I definitely have at least once. But it's so natural

505
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: that just just go.

506
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: On, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

507
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: So Lyddy, so he decides to make his his own

508
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: Odessa organization for the Nixon White House and like it

509
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: is funny, like the reason why he picks Odessa because

510
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: it really doesn't have anything to do with what he

511
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: wants to do, right, It wasn't an organization for plugging

512
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: leaks for one thing? Is that Odessa. Again, it's not

513
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: an actual organization, but in the post war era, all

514
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: of these spy books pretend it is because it's a

515
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: great bad guy for your spin norml Right, if you're

516
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: writing like a bunch of pop boiler James Bond type books,

517
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: the organization of SS Veterans, great idea for like these

518
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: will be our bad guys, right, these old Nazis and stuff,

519
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, this secret Nazi organization around the country. That's

520
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: why he that's why he focuses on them, because like

521
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: he'd read all these books as a kid, where they

522
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: were the bad guys, like Odessa is g Gordon Liddy's

523
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: generation's Cobra, right, yeah, and so that's like that who

524
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 1: he wants to be, yeah, clespect right, Yeah, and he

525
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: is he is the He is the same as modern

526
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: fascists who like play Warhammer forty K as kids and

527
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: then like decide Trump is the god em right, Like

528
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: that's all he's doing is he's like I want to

529
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: be like these guys and these fictional novels that I

530
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: thought are cool. So yeah, that's literally what's going on here.

531
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: Lyddy's partner in this endeavor, in this plumbing endeavor, is E.

532
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: Howard Hunt, and Hunt is an interesting guy who's kind

533
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: of in some ways weirdly similar to Liddy.

534
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: Now.

535
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: Hunt is a former CIA man, right, he was with

536
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: the company for a long time. He had worked overseas.

537
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: He was there during in Guatemala. He played a role

538
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: in the in the coup in Guatemala. I think also

539
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: in Chile, and maybe I'm wrong about that one. But

540
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: he's involved in a lot in these decades of fuckery

541
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: in South and Central America by the CIA. And then

542
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: he torpedoes his career because he's also deeply involved in

543
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: the Bay of Pigs, which does not go right. That's

544
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: kind of the end of his like, you know, career

545
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: for the CIA, of like meaning anything in it right now.

546
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: The thing is, though, Will Hunt is definitely involved in

547
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: doing a bunch of crimes for the CIA. He's like

548
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: a paper pusher, he's like a logistics guy. He's not

549
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: doing cool shit. He's not kicking indoors, he's not assassinating people.

550
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: He's certainly not romancing exotic ladies spies, right he is.

551
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: He is the spy. He's the spook equivalent of a

552
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 1: middle manager, right yeah, which is obviously necessary. Right, if

553
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: you're running an illegal spying organization that's committing crimes against humanity,

554
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: you need a bunch of pap Most of what you

555
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: need are paper mostly, right, That is mostly of the job.

556
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: You never need the other shit.

557
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: You very rarely need a jam like and that's usually

558
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: not it. Usually it's just like, well, we have a

559
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: lot of guns, let's just keep giving them the guys

560
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: in the jungle and like, you know, using our contacts

561
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: to give him a place to train in the nearby country,

562
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: and eventually they'll over there. Of the government, right, Like

563
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: that most of what goes on in these actual cases.

564
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: So Hunt Hunt, you know, despite the fact that on

565
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: paper his background's legitimate, he kind of always feels like

566
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: he missed out on getting to have the exciting spy career.

567
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: Part of how Hunt deals with that is he is

568
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: an author of spy books, like the same kind of

569
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: books that Liddy reads as a young man. He published

570
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: He's published like forty different novels by this point, and

571
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 1: they're all like kind of James bond Ish, right, like

572
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: slightly worse than Ian Fleming's novels, but like mid gra

573
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: airport fiction grade like spy thrillers, right, And so Hunt

574
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: is he's got some backstory, he has some connections, but

575
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: he's also, like Lyddy, kind of insecure about his lack

576
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: of doing anything cool. And so you put both of

577
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: these guys together, and that's a fucking disaster, right like,

578
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: because they're just going to lead each other into fucking

579
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: calamity well beyond their degree of competence. So the disaster

580
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: starts right away with their project of destroying Daniel Ellsberg,

581
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: the Pentagon papers leaker. The way they decided to do

582
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: this is they're going to break into his therapist's office

583
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: and steal the file on him, with the idea that

584
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: like this probably contains something damning about the man. Right now.

585
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: In his book, Lyddy lovingly describes all of the spy

586
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: cameras they get to buy and how they work, and

587
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: all the different gear, this listening devices he talks about

588
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: he has, like this terrible wig. There's a photo of

589
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: a minute this like horrible wig that he want that

590
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: looks like fucking shit, and he has this gait altering

591
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: device that he wears to make him like force him

592
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: to have a limp so that it'll disguise him, and like,

593
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: none of this winds up working. Like all of the

594
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: shit that they buy is pointless. Right because on their

595
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: first break in, which is the only one where Lyddy

596
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: does any actual spy work, they like bust into this

597
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: guy's office illegally and take photos of a bunch of paperwork.

598
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: And Lyddy doesn't know how to use the spy camera,

599
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,719
Speaker 1: so the photos they take don't work. There's like nothing

600
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: in them. Right, he gets a bunch of blurry pictures

601
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: of track. Right, that's all that is the extent of

602
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: his real career as a spy. Right is he fails

603
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: to use a spy camera properly and pointlessly breaks into

604
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: a therapist's office. This is like any reasonable person would

605
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: be embarrassed of this, Right, this is shameful. Lyddy describes

606
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: it as a successful op where he proved that he

607
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: really had what it took to be a spy. We

608
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: can see this evidence of this in the fact that

609
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: his boss, Bud Krogue, who was the White House FBI

610
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: liaison and thus did know real g men, right, like

611
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: Krogue knows actual spies. Immediately told them, you guys can

612
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: never do an entry again, Like, I don't ever want

613
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: to hear that you've broken into a place. You are

614
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: employees of the White House. If you get arrested, if

615
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: an employee of the White House gets arrested performing illegal

616
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: surveillance that could ruin the whole administration, you're not allowed

617
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: to ever go in on this again. So Lyddy goes

618
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: over to Hunt, and Hunt has friends, Cuban friends from

619
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: the Bay of Pigs. Right, These like criminals who had

620
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: tried to overthrow the Castor regime and failed. Right, most

621
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: of these guys are some kind of gangster, right as

622
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: well as being you know, want to be revolutionary. So

623
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: he has Hunt call up some of these Bay of

624
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: Pigs guys. And again, also, I don't know, man, if

625
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: you're if you're looking at like an op that went well,

626
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: that you might want to like hire dudes from Beya

627
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: Pigs prolays in the op, right, Like, yeah, the famously

628
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: successful Bay of Pigs. So they bring in these Bay

629
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: of Pigs guys and they just spend tens of thousands

630
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: of dollars on even more fans see camera equipment and lyddy,

631
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: he's not allowed to do anything, right, So he decides,

632
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: I'll be their backup, right, I'll hang around outside of

633
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: this of this building that they're breaking into to try

634
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: to get papers with a weapon in case I got

635
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: to kill somebody to keep quiet. Right, And so he

636
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: goes through how like he thought he should. He wanted

637
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: to bring a gun, but the only gun he has

638
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: that'd be good for this, he's got a He has

639
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: an unregistered CIA nine millimeter that was manufactured specifically for assassinations.

640
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: But god, it couldn't take a silencer, right, So he

641
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: brings his next best weapon, quote, a folding Browning knife,

642
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: deadly and quiet, a pocket knife. He calls it like

643
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: a Browning knife because browning also makes sense. He brings

644
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: a pocket knife. You take a pocket knife to your

645
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: spy mission in case you need to murder someone on

646
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 1: the street.

647
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: I mean, also, given his early history, I guess he's

648
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: probably physically capable of doing me. Maybe maybe not may.

649
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: It's actually, if you use the thing, it's hard to

650
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: kill people with a knife, right. It is not a

651
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: quiet weapon. Number one. Most of the time, when somebody

652
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: pulls a knife and uses it on another person. Both

653
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: of them get stabbed. It is a weapon that leads

654
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: to a lot of screaming. Right, you can't even with

655
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: an unsilenced weapon, you can shoot someone with it and

656
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: they can drop immediately, right without making any noise. Right,

657
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: it's possible with a knife. It is always going to

658
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: be loud and horrific because you're stabbing someone. Like, yeah,

659
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: maybe there's the odds spy out there who really can

660
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: quietly use an eye. But like you, if you read

661
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: actual stories of spies, very uncommon for knives to be

662
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: used to this situation.

663
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, not the tool of choice.

664
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lyddy certainly not qualified to use this. Right, it

665
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: doesn't matter though, this is all alarm because again, well

666
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: he describes this because he wants us to know he

667
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: totally might have killed a guy. All that actually happens

668
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: is he hangs out outside this office while his guys

669
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: are breaking in for a couple of minutes with a

670
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: pocket knife on his bait. And to make it even nerdier,

671
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: he has a holster for it on his belt. He's

672
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: like wearing a pocket knife and a fucking holster to

673
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: like maybe murder a fucking dude. Walking his dog. If

674
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: they come out right, and he writes this about this moment,

675
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: I can run for miles. And there were numerous deeply

676
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: shadowed hiding places in the area from which I could

677
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: pause to warn them in inside with the transceiver. Only

678
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: if there were no other recourse would I have used

679
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: the knife. But I would if I'd had to. I

680
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: had given my men my word that I would protect them. Great,

681
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: totally believable, Gee Gordon.

682
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god.

683
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: So his team does succeed at the operation because it

684
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: turns out, I mean kind of right. They get in there,

685
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: they get pictures and stuff of a bunch of papers,

686
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: but like, and they get his file, but like, none

687
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: of it. There's nothing in there, right, because Ellsberg there's

688
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: nothing really impeachable about him, and he certainly he didn't

689
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: go tell his therapists like, so, yeah, I'm committing a

690
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: crime by leaking classified data to the New York Times.

691
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: He doesn't do that, because Daniel Elsberg wasn't a fucking idiot.

692
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: So after ransacking this office, they leave a bunch of

693
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: random pills to disguise the break in as having been

694
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: carried out by a junkie. And this is what's said,

695
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: A man with a history of addiction is arrested for

696
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: the break in and coerced into confessing. He goes to

697
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: prison because of this, like just some random dude. Lyddy

698
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: has absolutely no sympathy for this guy because he's a junkie,

699
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: you know. So he goes. He and Hunt go back

700
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: to the drawing board, and according to Hunt, Hunt tells

701
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: Liddy Elsberg is scheduled to speak at a fundraising dinner

702
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: that's going to be held in Washington, and they decide like, oh,

703
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: this is a good opportunity to discredit him, right, we can, like,

704
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: we can embarrass him at this dinner in a way

705
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: that will make people less likely to trust what he's saying.

706
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: It's going to be the dinner's going to be attended

707
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: by media, you know, taste makers and shit, and so

708
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: this is a good opportunity. And the suggestion some guy's

709
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: Chuck Holson at the White House as is like, hey,

710
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: could Liddy, could you guys drug Elsberg to make him

711
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: appear that he's like an addict and not trustworthy. So

712
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: the plan that fucking Liddy and Hunt work up is

713
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: to have the same Cuban guys to dress them up

714
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: as waiters and have them drug Elsberg with acid and

715
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: his champagne never gets past the drawing board because it's

716
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: a terrible plan. So next they decide to start, they

717
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: drop plans to start fucking with the Brookings Institute, which

718
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: is this liberal think tank that Elsberg is involved with.

719
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: Right and Liddy suspects Elsberg hid his copy of the

720
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: Pentingon papers in their safe right, so he thinks there's

721
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: the full copy of these documents that he can lead

722
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: to the Times. I believe they're hiding out at the

723
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: Brookings Institute. So here's what we're going to do. We're

724
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: going to firebomb the Brookings Institute, and then we're going

725
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: to buy a brand new fire truck for the Cubans

726
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: and we'll train them all as firefighters and they'll be

727
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: waiting around the corner and will be the first responders

728
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: to the fire. And then while a fire is going

729
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: on and they pretend to fight it, they'll bust in

730
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: and crack the safe to get whatever's inside it.

731
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: Genius, that is.

732
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: That's a thing that could happen.

733
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 2: G Gordon, little boys reading comic books.

734
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: And they present this plan to Nixon, and Nixon's like, fuck,

735
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: that's right with you people, No, of course not. Lyddy

736
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: is like they just weren't willing to spend the money.

737
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: It was too much money for the Nixon administration. It

738
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: might have been part of it. I also think that

739
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: even Dick Nixon was like, so, you want to light

740
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 1: the building on fire, bring in fake firefighters, have him

741
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: cracked the code before real firefighters show up, and like,

742
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: then ditch a brand new fire truck and hope that

743
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: nobody ties it back to you.

744
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

745
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like a good plan to me. I'm

746
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: just Dick Nixon, though, So one fact makes the case

747
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 1: for Hunt and Liddy's fundamental incompetence better than any other. Now, Andrew,

748
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: I know you have limited experience in clandestine operations, but

749
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 1: if you know, think back to they carry out these

750
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: like first two illegal burglaries on a fucking Elsberg and

751
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: his psychiatrist. If you had just done that, you had

752
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: carried out these burglaries and gotten away, would you a

753
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: destroy all evidence that might link you to this crime

754
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,959
Speaker 1: later or b take multiple pictures of yourself wearing disguises,

755
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: including a hideous wig, and holding break in equipment at

756
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: the site of the break in and then send those

757
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: photo negatives in with pictures of private documents you found

758
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: in the break in to the CIA to get developed.

759
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: Which of those two would you do? They take pictures

760
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: of themselves and the documents they stole with their illegal

761
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: equipment the White House paid for, and they send those

762
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: photos to the CIA to get developed. So the CIA

763
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: has a copy of photos proving that Howard Hunt and

764
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 1: g Gordon Liddie were connected to these cribs.

765
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god, why did they do that? I mean never,

766
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: I just listen.

767
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: I mean that's the the A and B side, and

768
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: I think we may it may wasn't It was it

769
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 3: you and I that had this conversation on Twitter potentially,

770
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 3: which is like the clownishness of fascists is only really

771
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 3: overshadowed by the fact that, like non fascists are barely

772
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 3: winning some of them, yeah.

773
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, occasionally barely winning. It's it's not a it's not

774
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: an optimistic thing. What do you think about it? But like,

775
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: one of the things, the thing that repeatedly fucks over fascists,

776
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: not as often as it should, but ultimately always does, right,

777
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: is that they're incapable constitutionally fundamentally fascists are incapable of

778
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: estimating threats correctly. Yes, right, like that, that's that's the

779
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: way it is, right, and that's the thing that ultimately

780
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: has destroyed them every time in the history. Right, they're

781
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: not they're not actually able to accurately determine whether or

782
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: not they're taking unreasonable risks, whether or not they can

783
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: handle like they can't they can't understand the real like

784
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: forces raid against them because of something about like the

785
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: way in which fascism fundamentally deranges its adherents, right, yeah.

786
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: Well, or it's the over over like you know, the

787
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: over reliance on the power of Marshall.

788
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, like general, Yeah, you see that a lot in Lyddy,

789
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: where like he just there's a lot of own goals

790
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: constantly because he can't he can't actually tell what a

791
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: good idea is. He can't tell what a realis is. Right,

792
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: any reasonable person would be like, I don't know, man,

793
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: it kind of feels like that's going to get you

794
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: in some trouble. I kind of feet It was like,

795
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have any photos that could tie you to

796
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: this crime you're committing. But Lyddy's like, no, we need

797
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: to people need to know that I had all this

798
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: cool spy gear right at some point, I want this

799
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: on the historical record.

800
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: This is important.

801
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: While Niddy is playing dipshit James Bond, he continues his

802
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: irrepressible habit of inserting his weird Nazi fetish everywhere possible,

803
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: and in this case that now means the White House.

804
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: So this is happening while there's all these protests developing around,

805
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: like the Vietnam War, and it's like really bumming everyone

806
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: out right as you'd expect, Like all these guys yelling

807
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: at you and calling you baby killer, like that bums

808
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: them out so quote. I got awfully tired of stories

809
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: about giant rallies with all the balloons going up in Unison.

810
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: Finally I had enough of it. Hey, you guys, I said,

811
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: one day, you want to see a real rally. Curious

812
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: they asked what I was talking about. One of the

813
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: advantages of living in Washington is the availability of the museums,

814
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: art galleries, and libraries. One of my favorite haunts had

815
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: been the National Archives, and I subscribed to the little

816
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: schedule of motion pictures to be shown that the theater there.

817
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,919
Speaker 1: I had taken my children to see Lenny Reefenstall's cinematic masterpiece,

818
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: Triumph of the Will. I called the National Archives and

819
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: set up a special showing for the White House staff.

820
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: About fifteen people attended. Oh my god, gotta show your man.

821
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: All these people are calling us fascists. We better go

822
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: watch Triumph of the Will.

823
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: My Nazi movie night was not as well attended as

824
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 2: I house I have thought.

825
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: And he's like, everyone was very impressed about how good

826
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: the Nazis were, like forming a rally. Maybe you know what,

827
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: I'll give you this that you may be telling the

828
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: truth about this. I do believe you could find fifteen

829
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: people in the Nixon White House who could be legitimately

830
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: impressed by Triumph of the Will. I'm not gonna question

831
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: g Gordon Letty on that fact he didn't lie about

832
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: everything right, right, right right.

833
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: That seems like a reasonable claim.

834
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Now you do get the feeling that

835
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: like shit like this, maybe because again, only fifteen do

836
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: you show up and like the fact that he's failing. Right. Ultimately,

837
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: nothing that he does works and it's all very expensive

838
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: and part because of all of the fancy spy gear

839
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: he has to buy. This kind of gets he and

840
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: Hunt pushed out of the White House and the same

841
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: way that Liddy had been pushed out of the Treasury

842
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: not all that long ago. Unfortunately, this didn't mean that

843
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 1: Nixon had no use for him. So by nineteen late

844
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, after a couple of years of the

845
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: Pentagon papers being out and like, you know, this really

846
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: supercharging protests, Dick Nixon is as paranoid a man as

847
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: has ever held the presidency. He was, among other things,

848
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: certain that Howard Hughes, the billionaire, was funding a secret

849
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: war against his reelection. He was convinced that during his

850
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: sixty eight election, Democrats had paid for protesters and funded

851
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: secret espionage against his campaign. And like you get a

852
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: lot of statements from people that like, well, everyone knew

853
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: that everyone did this kind of stuff. The kind of

854
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: shit that happened Watergate was common. Perhaps it was I'm

855
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: not gonna I'm not gonna take bat for like fucking

856
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: any anybody who's in power at this point that they

857
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't do some of this shit, right, But that is

858
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: the I don't know that they did either. The fact

859
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: that Nixon believes this, though, he's a big part of

860
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: what why Watergate happens. Why everything that comes is that

861
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: he is number one. There are real leaks, There are

862
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: definitely people who don't want him to win reelection. And

863
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: he's convinced that he got spite on in sixty eight,

864
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 1: so he's justified in doing it now. Right. So Nixon

865
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,479
Speaker 1: is obsessed with the fact the idea that he needs

866
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: to fight back and build an apparatus that will warn

867
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: him of any future leaks before they happen. And as

868
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 1: he's putting together a list of task forces before the

869
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: end of nineteen seventy one for his campaign the next year,

870
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: he tells his chief of staff and political soulmate, Bob Haldeman,

871
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: make sure we have a political intelligence capability better than

872
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: we had in previous campaigns. Now. Haldeman is an interesting guy.

873
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: Bob Haldeman is about his power, hungry, a political climber

874
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: as has ever existed in DC politics. He is Nixon's

875
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: top They're often described as soulmates, right, Haldeman and Nixon

876
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: like they are just they were born waiting for each other, right,

877
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: and like Nixon is. Nixon's a big picture guy, right,

878
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: He's a visionary, whereas Bob Haldeman is a put the

879
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: screws to people get shit done. Fucking that kind of

880
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: dude is very practical, like make things happen kind of dude.

881
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: So they fit together pretty well. Haldeman spends his first

882
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: couple of years in the White House kind of devouring

883
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: the portfolios of other cabinet members right expanding his territory

884
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: like a medieval lord. He's a he's very much like

885
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: an internal politics kind of guy. And while he's doing this,

886
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: Nixon obsesses over these conspiratorial fears of his ever widening

887
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: circle of enemies. Nixon is the kind of guy who's

888
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: unethical enough to approve an illegal dirty tricks section of

889
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: the campaign, but it's sammy enough that he doesn't want

890
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: to be on record saying that, right, so he and

891
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: Haldeman he Mixon tells Haldeman, I want a dirty tricks

892
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 1: chunk of the campaign. I want people who can spy

893
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: on the enemy for us, and Haldeman uses his doesn't

894
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: want to just say, hey, guys, make us a crime division,

895
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: so he uses this organizational structure he had created within

896
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: the Nixon White House in order to kind of push

897
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: his people to develop this without directly tying it to him,

898
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: and the name of this structure. This machine that Haldiman

899
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: builds within the Nixon White House is called the Tickler

900
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: by former White House counselor John Council John Deane. At

901
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: its core, the Tickler is half phone tree, half harassment campaign. Right.

902
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: Men will be given in person, will be told something like, yeah,

903
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: I want you to make a spy division of the campaign. Right,

904
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,479
Speaker 1: and then Haldeman will task other members of the White

905
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 1: House staff with calling this person every couple of days

906
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 1: and be like, Hey, you've done that thing for Bob yet,

907
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: you've done that thing for Bob yet, Right, And this

908
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: is meant to escalate over time so that the calls

909
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: get more and more frequent, Right, in order to kind

910
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: of push people, give them this ticking clock, make them

911
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: like kind of work obsessively towards this end. Right. That's

912
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: the way that tickler works. Right. You're never just sort

913
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: of writing saying I need you to do this. You're

914
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: kind of like using people's peers in order to develop

915
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: this sense of urgency in them to act. Right. So,

916
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: in his own yeah, yeah, this is how Aldaman works.

917
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: And in his own memoirs, John Deane writes the Tickler

918
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: was an extension of Haldeman, and was probably more responsible

919
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: for the Chief of Staff's awesome reputation than was his

920
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: own aluminum personality. It was a self perpetuating paper monster

921
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: with a computer's memory and a Portuguese man O War's touch.

922
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: Often those who were ticklers made calls for the sake

923
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: of making calls to impress Haldeman with their efficiency. Their

924
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: machine never forgot or tired. Once a staff man was

925
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: nailed with the responsibility for the slightest project, the tickler

926
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: would keep pestering until it was fed something, a status report,

927
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: a piece of paper, a bit of information to chew on.

928
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: No one could ignore the tickler, because no one could

929
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: afford to ignore Haldeman. That's how the Nixon White House works.

930
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: That's right, That's how Big Bob Haldeman works.

931
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Right, it is just like just like

932
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 2: the type of bureaucracy that's you know, this is what

933
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: Republicans are actually talking about. What they say big government

934
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: is inefficient or insane.

935
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, And when you think about when you think about

936
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: this organizational structure, right, I think a reasonable person can

937
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: predict two things are going to be the result of

938
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: this organizational structure. One is people will in order to

939
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: get this thing off their back, right, to push back

940
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: this harassment campaign, they will they will feel pressured to

941
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: just do something, to show up, shot out something, even

942
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: if it's not ready, even if it's not a good idea,

943
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: because you need you need to present the tickler with

944
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: some evidence that you're making progress.

945
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: Right.

946
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: So number one, people might get pressured into like approving

947
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: or allowing things just to have done it right, even

948
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: if it's not a good idea. And number two, this

949
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: is a great way to harass people into action. But

950
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: there's no it does not provide any actual oversight over

951
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: what's being done right because the product doesn't matter. Making

952
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: progress matters, right, Like, That's the way in which this works.

953
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: So you might have a situation which people might approve

954
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: shit that's a bad idea, just to get the tickler

955
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: off their back without watching what's happening. Right. That's how

956
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: Watergate is allowed to happen. Right. It's because of this

957
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 1: structure that Haldoman has built. And we'll talk about exactly

958
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: how that results in Watergate. But first you know who

959
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: is actively spying on the Democratic National Committee.

960
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with.

961
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: A variety of people, but probably a variety of people,

962
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: but almost certainly the good people in blue apron right. No, yeah, well, actually,

963
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't continue that because again, people are incapable of

964
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: recognizing jokes. Yeah, there's somebody somebody on the subreddit the

965
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: other week being like, why does Robert hate the FDA,

966
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: and people being like, oh, you know, it's because he's

967
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: a like, we make jokes about the FDA because the

968
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: idea of going to war with the FDA, of all

969
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: government agencies, is funny. Right, that's it. That's it. I

970
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: don't have a specific beef with the FDA. It's a

971
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: bit again people like anyway, whatever everyone happens, it's okay,

972
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: take it seriously. I do, in fact want to carry

973
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: out terrorist attacks against the FDA. That's that's the point

974
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: of that joke. It's a real statement of my political beliefs.

975
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: Good times, everybody, Good times. I can't wait for that

976
00:49:54,000 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: FDA raid to hit. Now now that I've admitted that online.

977
00:49:58,800 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: H.

978
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: Ah, we're back, So let's let's let's keep on talking.

979
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: So Haldeman, you know, the tickler kind of starts the

980
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: process of bugging these guys lower on in the White

981
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: House list. Make a spy division right, make a spy division,

982
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: you know. And again, one thing you might note about

983
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: the tickler is that while it's effective at pushing people

984
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: into action, it is also effectively a giant game of telephone, right,

985
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 1: And so inevitably when you're playing telephone, the message gets

986
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: distorted both ways. Right, So no one's getting accurate information

987
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 1: about what is being developed. But something is being developed

988
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: because you have to provide responses to the tickler, right.

989
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: And Holdeman has not really specified what kind of intelligence

990
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: Nixon wants, right, And his hope is kind of that

991
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: by keeping continually poking the guys who are running the

992
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: committee to re elect the president usually just called Creep.

993
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: Who are the two guys running this who are getting

994
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: harassed by the tickler to make this intelligence division are

995
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: John Mitchell, who's a close friend of Nixon than the

996
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: former attorney general, and Jeb McGruder, who's like the deputy

997
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: manager or whatever of Creep. Right, And basically they're being

998
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: pushed finds. Their reaction is like, we have to give

999
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: the White House something. Let's just find some maniac who

1000
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: will break the law in creative ways and like give him,

1001
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: you know, the job of running intel. And the guy

1002
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: who gets that job is going to be g Gordon Lyddy. Right,

1003
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 1: that's result of all this, he found his perfect place.

1004
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: You know what I will say is this whole this

1005
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: whole vibe is also very Silicon Valley. This is like

1006
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: indistinguishable from break breakfast, move.

1007
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 2: Fast break breaks.

1008
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, in his autobiography, Lyddy claims that he gets

1009
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: this very prestigious job as a reward for his hard

1010
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: work at the Department of Treasury. It came with a

1011
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: huge pay bump. He claims he's making what would be

1012
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: the modern equivalent of like a quarter of a million

1013
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: dollars a year, right, He also claims which is like

1014
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: thirty grand or something at that time. He also claims,

1015
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: in addition to this, that he had been prom a

1016
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: million dollar budget for his dirty Tricks project. Now, this

1017
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: was never the case. No one ever told Liddy he

1018
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: was going to get a million dollars. What happened is that, Like,

1019
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: so there's this. The first person to kind of propose

1020
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: a dirty tricks campaign for the Nixon White House is

1021
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: this dude named Clawfield, who was put forward as director

1022
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: for the Alcohol Tax and Firearms Division of the IRS, right,

1023
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: and the IRIS commissioner had blocked call Field from getting

1024
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: the job because Callfield is a maniac.

1025
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: Right.

1026
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: So Callfield comes up and is like, hey, guys, I'm

1027
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: going to start a private security firm since I didn't

1028
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: get that job, and maybe you guys can be the

1029
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: first people to hire me. I've got this great idea.

1030
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: We're calling it Operation sand Wedge, right, and if you

1031
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: give me a half a million dollars, I'll hire double

1032
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: agents and infiltrate them into the Democratic Party and carry

1033
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: out all of these different schemes to like illegally spy

1034
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 1: on them. Now a lot of people are like, well,

1035
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: this is a good idea, and especially once Nixon says

1036
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: I want a Dirty Tricks Division, they're like, well, this

1037
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: is what Nixon wants, so we should make this thing happen.

1038
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: But everyone agrees Caulfield doesn't know what he's doing, in

1039
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: part because he's not a good old boy, right. Callfield

1040
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: does not come from any ivy league school. He's not

1041
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: part of like the family of people who should be

1042
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: trusted with a job like this. Whereas despite all of

1043
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: the time Liddy tries to make himself out as like

1044
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: an outsider, he very much is an insider, right. Yeah,

1045
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: So Magruder, the second man at CREEP, eventually comes to

1046
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: John Dene and is like, we need someone to run

1047
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: this crime department, and we don't trust this guy who

1048
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 1: pitched us. You know a pretty good plan for doing it.

1049
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: We love his ideas about crimes, just not him. Who

1050
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: else can we get to do the job for him? Right?

1051
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: And so, because he's also being harassed by the tickler,

1052
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: John Dene goes back to Bud Krogue, who had been

1053
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: Liddy's boss at the plumbing White House Plumbers, right, and

1054
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: is the li is onto the FBI, and Bud Krogue

1055
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: is like his Crogue wants to get rid of g.

1056
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: Gordon Liddy like everyone who works at him does. Crogue

1057
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: is like, oh, you need a guy to do dirty tricks.

1058
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: I know what, dou REPI guy. He's got this reputation

1059
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: being a wild man. But he's a great lawyer. And

1060
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: because John Dean is also one of these like Ivy League,

1061
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: Pricks is like, oh uh, he's this guy. Went to

1062
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: a good college, right, he went to Fordham. You know

1063
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 1: he's got a great and he's got it. He's a lawyer. Hill.

1064
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: This is the calm hand that we need on this

1065
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: program to really make sure nobody goes too far with anything.

1066
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: So that's how Lyddy gets hired to run this, right,

1067
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: and you know, Krogue seems to It's it's kind of

1068
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: unclear if Krogue thinks that Lyddy will accomplish anating or

1069
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: just wants to get rid of him, you know. For Wisworth,

1070
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 1: Jeff McGruder, who's running the committee to re elect the

1071
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: president more or less, is like is like most people. Uh,

1072
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 1: he's immediately off put by Lyddy. And this paragraph from

1073
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: the book King Richard get because because Bud Krogue writes

1074
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: one book about Watergate, I think that's the one the

1075
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: show with Justin throw White House Plumbers is based off of.

1076
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: And John Dean writes another book about his experiences, and

1077
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: I believe that that's the book that the other Watergate

1078
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: show is based off of. I've read a number of

1079
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 1: different accounts, large pieces of them, from all the guys involved.

1080
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: None of them are trustworthy, right when it comes to

1081
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: like who is right here, Well, they're all liars, right,

1082
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: These guys were all mixed and administration's.

1083
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 2: Now point they're all liars generally they're here.

1084
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: Triangulate truth by kind of going through all of them.

1085
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: And so I'm going to read a paragraph from the

1086
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: book King Richard that gives an idea of how Jeb

1087
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: Magruder responds to the g Man in a professional setting.

1088
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: Letty struck mcgreeder as a cocky little bantam rooster who

1089
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: liked to brag it out his James Bondish exploits. An

1090
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: exercise fanatic, he had a disconcerting habit of dropping to

1091
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: the floor and without notice performing one hundred push ups.

1092
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: He boasted about his method for killing people with a pencil.

1093
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: Hold the eraser end in your hand and ram the

1094
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: finely sharpened point into your victim's neck just above the

1095
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: Adams apple. And again, Lyddy never kills a man with

1096
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: a pencil, nor was he trained to do it. Obviously, Yes,

1097
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: you could, in fact kill a man with a pencil, right,

1098
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: that's a thing that is theoretically possible. Lyddy is no

1099
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: more capable of doing it than anyone at your middle school.

1100
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: He has never provided any evidence to the contrary. So

1101
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 1: there is there's a moment in one of the Watergate

1102
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: shows where like Lyddy get winds up in a room

1103
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: with John Dean after they've both gotten in trouble and

1104
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: like Deane's rolled on the Nixon White House and Liddy

1105
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: picks up a pencil and like threatens to stab him

1106
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: with it. That never happens. In Lyddy's autobiography, all he

1107
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: does he writes about how he wanted to do that

1108
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: when they're in this room together, but ultimately he was

1109
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: very polite.

1110
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 2: Right.

1111
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: That's again the perfect like the perfect kind of like

1112
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 1: mix between the claims of Lyddy and sort of this

1113
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,959
Speaker 1: pop culture image of this dangerous mad man he's gonna

1114
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: stab John Dean to death in the reality, which is

1115
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: like he thought a lot about threatening him with a

1116
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 1: pencil but did nothing. So, yeah, I get the more

1117
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: I learn about fucking g Gordon Liddy, the more I've

1118
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: come to the conclusion he's like the fascist Walter Middy. Right,

1119
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: Like every moment he is nothing but like a bureaucrat,

1120
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: But every single second when anything happens, he has these

1121
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: big fantasies of being a hero. Right. I do kind

1122
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: of want Ben Stiller to play g.

1123
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 2: Gordon Lyddy in a movie now, Yeah, it is that

1124
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 2: like seething small man rage. Yeah that, Yeah, I guess

1125
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 2: except for all the Nazi stuff. Ben Stiller is pretty perfect.

1126
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could do it. He could do it. So

1127
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: not long after their first meeting, Magruder makes the mistake.

1128
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: He puts a hand on Lyddy's shoulder when they're like

1129
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: they're working in the office, they're going over illegal breath.

1130
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: Lyddy calls him over and he like puts a hand.

1131
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say you should do that, but not

1132
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: like an abnormal gesture, right Lyddy. Lyddy yells at him, Jeb,

1133
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: if you don't take your arm off my shoulder, I'm

1134
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: gonna tear it off and beat you to death with it.

1135
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1136
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: Again. Jef Magruder, I think is a pretty big guy.

1137
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: Lyddy is five foot nine, so yeah. Anyway, One tricky

1138
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: thing we've come up against over and over is separating

1139
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: Liddy's performance of bad Assy, which does seem to have

1140
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: worked on Jeb Magruder, because Jeb is one of these

1141
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: soulless Ivy League pranks with the h and Magruder, by

1142
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: the way, is widely considered to be the second dumbest

1143
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: man in the Nixon administration, like universally regarded as a

1144
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: feel so I'm not surprised that Liddy's bullshit like works

1145
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: on him. It's try, but there's this, there's a difficulty

1146
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: in separating what does Liddy really think is happening with

1147
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: the smoke and mirrors that he presents, because it's his

1148
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: image now, right. And the thing is Lyddy is, despite

1149
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: all of his his inanity, a committed ideologue with a

1150
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: hardcore of belief, and most of this belief is based

1151
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: around his revulsion at the Left and the Vietnam protests, right,

1152
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 1: and he comes to believe, he writes in his book,

1153
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: he thinks that permitting the spirit, lifestyle and ideas of

1154
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: the sixties movement to achieve power would be as horrifying

1155
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: to him as the thought of surrender to a Japanese

1156
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: soldier in nineteen forty five. Yeah, so hey, he finally

1157
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: compared himself to a fascist. That's not a Nazi. Guys,

1158
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: we did it, We did it.

1159
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: I mean right, the asterisk. I would have loved to

1160
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 2: surrender soldier.

1161
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: And he's talking about like, it's as horrifying to me

1162
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:19,439
Speaker 1: to do this as it would be to a Japanese Americans. Yes,

1163
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: that is that is the one time. Yeah, yeah, he

1164
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 1: has like nightmares, its nightmares of Jane Fonda visiting Hanoi.

1165
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: He's convinced that the US is having a cold civil war,

1166
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: right that that's that's going on right now, And so

1167
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: he's willing certainly right about that. Yeah, yeah, he's willing

1168
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: to blow up anything right in order to prevent this.

1169
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: There's no no action, no matter how dangerous or immoral,

1170
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: that isn't justified in his mind by beating these hippies, right, uh,

1171
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: and of hold him his aides Gordon Strachan, who's involved

1172
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: intimately in Watergate, puts he says this when mcgrider tells him, like,

1173
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,439
Speaker 1: maybe we should get Liddy out of this department, maybe

1174
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: he should not be involved in committe crimes for Russ

1175
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: Strakean says, Lyddy's a hitler, but at least he's our hitler.

1176
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: Why do you need a hitler? Why do you want

1177
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: to hitler?

1178
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, that is it truly is like

1179
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 2: so mind bending to me that, Yeah, you'd think there

1180
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 2: was a brief moment in time when the right wing

1181
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: at least had like a sense of optics. But I

1182
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: guess not. I guess that's the answer is they never

1183
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 2: have ever.

1184
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: It's like if you're running a bar and your bartender

1185
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: is like creeping out all of the clientele and like dangerous,

1186
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 1: and you're like, look, so and so is a Bill Cosby,

1187
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: but at least he's our Bill Cosby. Well do we

1188
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: want a Bill Cosby at this bar? Do we need

1189
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: a Bill Cosby? Like? Yeah, maybe that's a bad thing

1190
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: to have at the bar. No one ever suggests that.

1191
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: So Dean decides we'll give Lydia a shot, and he

1192
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: offers him the job, right, And for a while, Lyddia

1193
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: is kind of working as a lawyer for the campaign,

1194
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: but Dean keeps getting poked by the tickler to get

1195
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: this in Hell operation up and running, and so he

1196
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: brings in Gordon and he's like, put together a proposal

1197
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: for a dirty tricks campaign, right, and Liddy's like, how

1198
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: much money could I have? And Dean's like, well, this

1199
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: other guy said half a million dollars, so maybe we

1200
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: could do half a million dollars And Lyddy's like that

1201
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: must mean a million dollars. So I'm gonna build a

1202
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: plan that will cost a million dollars. So the the

1203
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: what results is he calls an Operation Jymstone, and it

1204
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: is both incredibly profoundly illegal and so far beyond g

1205
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: Gordon Liddy's limited competence that I think I wish it

1206
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: had gotten greenlit. Right, Some of the stuff in there

1207
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: is that like we're gonna drug hippies and we're gonna

1208
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: sneak them into opponent George McGovern's campaign headquarters so they

1209
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: can piss on the floor, right, Like, well, he's being

1210
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: interviewed on TV, right, which is he might have gotten

1211
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: it away with that that that's with possibly within his

1212
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: limited competence. But there was also outrageously ambitious shit like

1213
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: this plan related by John Dean and his memoir quote

1214
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: he had consulted specialists, one of the world's leading experts,

1215
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: and solve the problem of finding untraceable equipment. Then he

1216
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: launched into an extremely technical description of microwave telephone communications,

1217
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: speaking of relay stations, routing frequencies, and the difficulties of

1218
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: intercepting non cabled signals. His point became clear when he

1219
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 1: said there was equipment capable of intercepting all communications between

1220
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: an opposing candidate's airplane and the ground. Then intercepting equipment

1221
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: was required to be near the airplane, but not within sight,

1222
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: of course. So Lyddy proposed hiring a Chase plane to

1223
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: follow the Democratic campaign planes and make transcriptions of all

1224
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: airborne comman. He wants to have a plane following in secret,

1225
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: hidden in the clouds, the Democratic campaign plane at all

1226
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: times to intercept their comms. There is no way he

1227
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: would have pulled this off. Not possible.

1228
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 2: So amazing what I mean, right, he is just this

1229
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 2: is just blowfeld shit. Yes, yes, I yeah, I guess

1230
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 2: you got a dream. You gotta have a dreamer on

1231
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 2: every campaign. You know, I don't know that you do.

1232
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 2: But but he is there.

1233
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: He is there. So another plan that he prefers is

1234
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: to rent an expensive house boat, and and Lyddy is

1235
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: constantly being like, we got to rent this now, I

1236
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: got a handshake deal with the owner, you know, give

1237
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: me the money, now give me and like Jean Dean's like,

1238
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: we don't even talk this through man, and Liddy's like,

1239
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: but I gotta. I want to fill it with high

1240
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: dollar prostitutes, right, and we're gonna sail it around the

1241
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: whole election to everywhere the DNC goes to, like they're

1242
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: you know, we'll have it just always import anywhere the

1243
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: Democrats do a big meeting so that we can we

1244
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: can pull in Democratic officials and then these these prostitutes

1245
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: can ply them for information and record it, right, and yeah,

1246
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: it's very funny. Everyone is like this seems like a

1247
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: terrible idea and that he's like, no, it's not. These

1248
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: are the finest call girls in the country. You know.

1249
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: I can tell you from firsthand experience. They're not dumb broads.

1250
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: They're girls who can be trained and programmed. I've spoken

1251
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: with the Madam and Baltimore and we've been assured of

1252
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: their services at the convention. Part of why they don't

1253
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: do this is because someone intelligent is like, hey, we

1254
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: don't want to like make a big deal about Democratic

1255
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: staffers utilizing prostitutes, because like everyone does, Like you go

1256
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: into any brothel in like a place where there's a

1257
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: big political convenment convention and it's an even list of

1258
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: dimson repul We don't want to. We don't want to

1259
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 1: tug that string. That doesn't work out for us in

1260
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: the long run. Lyddy also had plans to utilize his

1261
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: dreamed of budget to hire thugs to do violence to protesters.

1262
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: Now the simplest version of this is literally higher CIA

1263
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: street fighters, as he calls them to beat up hippies

1264
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: and public at protests.

1265
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: Right.

1266
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: But his more advanced plan is to hire a second team,

1267
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: who will be paid for by Richard Nixon, to kidnap

1268
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 1: American citizens and traffic them into foreign countries.

1269
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 2: Quote.

1270
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: These teams are experienced in surgical relocation activities. In a word, general,

1271
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: he's calling Mitchell general. They can kidnap a hostile leader

1272
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: with maximum secrecy in a minimum use of force. If,

1273
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: for example, a prominent radical comes to our San Diego

1274
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: convention to marshal his army of demonstrators, these teams can

1275
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: drug him and take him across the border into Mexico

1276
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: until the convention is over. He'd never see the face

1277
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: of a single one of our operatives. My god, And

1278
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: this is extra funny because of something else that Liddy

1279
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: says during this, Right, because he's g Gordon Liddy, and

1280
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: you can probably guess it's bringing the Nazis into it. Right.

1281
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: Here's what Lyddy writes about Quote, with Magruder and Dean

1282
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: out to lunch, I felt obliged to impress Mitchell with

1283
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: my seriousness of purpose that My people were the kind,

1284
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: and I was the kind and could and would do

1285
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: whatever was necessary to deal with organized mass violence. Both

1286
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: Magruder and Dean were too young to know what I

1287
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: was talking about, but I knew that Mitchell, a naval

1288
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: officer in World War Two, would get the message if

1289
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: I translated the English Special Action Group into German. Given

1290
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: the history involved. It was a gross exaggeration, but it

1291
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: made my point. An einsatz group a general, I said,

1292
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: inadvertently using a heart for the word general and turning

1293
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: it too into German. These men include professional killers who

1294
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: have accounted for between them twenty two dead so far,

1295
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: including two hanged from a beam in a garage. And

1296
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: like so, the Eydseets Group, if you've forgotten, are the

1297
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: division of the SS who carried out the first stages

1298
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: of the Holocaust, which was largely shooting babies and women

1299
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 1: and like women and children and burying tens of thousands

1300
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: of the mass graves. That's what he He names this

1301
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: operation to kidnap hippies after well.

1302
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 2: And also to be like, and you know who's going

1303
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 2: to be impressed by this? A World War two.

1304
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: Veteran, World War two veteran, This, Yeah, and Mitchell he's like,

1305
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 1: I could tell he was impressed, and for all we

1306
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: can know, Mitchell gets angry about this music. Get this

1307
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: fucking dude out of here, and they do again. Because

1308
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 1: none of them are very competent. They're like, come back

1309
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: with a plan that doesn't cost him million dollars, right, Like,

1310
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: cut some of this maniac shit off and try to

1311
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: bring us something else, right, in part because they just

1312
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 1: need to have updates for the tickler. Right, So Lyddy

1313
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: gets kind of yelled out of the room and he

1314
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 1: comes back a few weeks later with a different idea, right,

1315
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: Operation Crystal, which is cheaper and involves installing wiretaps and

1316
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: democratic offices. Right, and this is what comes Watergate.

1317
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 2: Right, Listen. Basically it's just Crystal with a C.

1318
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, Thegul's Crystal with the fucking sea.

1319
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:22,919
Speaker 2: Right.

1320
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: In his autobiography, Lyddy makes it clear that as soon

1321
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: as he got told to start drawing the shit up,

1322
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: he assumed he had a million dollar budget. So he

1323
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 1: has a hunt, start paying retainers to his cubans and

1324
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: promising all these guys money. And then he's like freaking

1325
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: out to Dean, like I promise dangerous men money, like

1326
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: they have to get paid, you know. Yeah, it Dean's like,

1327
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: but we never told you you had a million dollars.

1328
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: Why are you paying people already? Oh my god, it is,

1329
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 1: it is. It's very funny. So one of the dudes

1330
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: that he and Hunt bring in to carry out their

1331
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: crime plan to wiretap the Democratic National Committee is a

1332
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 1: man named Jim McCord. And of all of the adjacent

1333
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: man children in these plots, Jim McCord is the closest

1334
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 1: to the real deal, which is not a compliment. Born

1335
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma, he'd been a bombadier in the Army Air

1336
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: Corps in World War Two and had been joined the

1337
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 1: FBI and transferred after a little while to the CIA

1338
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: at kind of the height of its crimes against the

1339
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 1: humanity phase. He became AGS fifteen, which had him put

1340
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 1: in charge of the CIA's physical security at its Langley HQ.

1341
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: So he is running security for the CIA headquarters. Right,

1342
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: that's a big job, right, that is like a legit.

1343
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 1: Gig Alan Dolas called him my top man, so he

1344
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: has the he has the kind of spy. Both Hunt

1345
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,799
Speaker 1: and Lyddy want to pretend to be right, and McCord

1346
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: on paper should be a bugging expert. You know, I

1347
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: cannot blame Lyddy for trusting the man's credentials. He's got

1348
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: everything you'd want in the resume of a guy to

1349
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: handle bugging for you. So Jim is The problem with

1350
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,160
Speaker 1: Jim is that he is the security head for CREEP.

1351
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 1: So he is an employee of the Nixon Why House, right, well,

1352
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: not the White House, but of Nixon's campaign, right, He's

1353
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 1: directly tied to Nixon. So he does seem like an

1354
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 1: obvious guy to run the water tapping op. But he's

1355
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,639
Speaker 1: also for the same reason why Lydia and Hunt aren't

1356
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: allowed to be doing physical ops together. He shouldn't be

1357
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: on scene at anything. So Lyddy puts together a paired

1358
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: down version of his wire tapping plans and he gets

1359
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 1: approved a quarter of a million dollar budget, a significant

1360
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: amount of what he and Howard Hunt are spending Lots

1361
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: of this money on luxury hotels and fine dining, traveling

1362
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 1: around trying to find criminals to do.

1363
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 2: They can help themselves, they cannot.

1364
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,839
Speaker 1: Help his defensive This is that like, well, no serious

1365
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: criminal will trust us if we're not spending a lot

1366
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: of money on nonsense. That's right, Yeah, maybe maybe maybe

1367
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: Lyddy got added to the van. Yeah, so this is

1368
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: somewhat counteracted. The fact that like this is the only

1369
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: way to make people trust them is a little counteracted

1370
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: by other claims Lyddy makes about his recruitment efforts and

1371
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: how he tried to get these criminals to impress him.

1372
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: And this is us to perhaps the most infamous story

1373
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: about g. Gordon Liddy is pinschant for lighting his own

1374
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 1: hand on fire. What a funny man, Oh, if you

1375
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: believe Liddy. In the late sixties, as he's continually trying

1376
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: to increase his will power and make himself a tough man,

1377
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 1: he decides, well, this war between us and the left

1378
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 1: is about to like, so I need to make myself

1379
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 1: hardened to torture, right, and the only way to do that.

1380
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: He describes this as a technique recognized in the East

1381
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:37,440
Speaker 1: for increasing willpower, where he burns himself for increasing periods

1382
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 1: of time to build up a tolerance for pain. Quote

1383
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: much as one might build muscles by lifting insane thing

1384
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 1: to compare lighting yourself on fire too, And like I also,

1385
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,600
Speaker 1: I do really think there's any ancient Eastern technique for

1386
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 1: lighting your own hand on fire. But perhaps you know, perhaps, yeah,

1387
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 1: I guess maybe. So he felt that he needed to

1388
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 1: harden his body to torture. So in nineteen sixty seven

1389
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: he starts burning himself regularly with cigarettes and matches, and

1390
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,839
Speaker 1: he's always careful to light his left hand and forearm

1391
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: on fire because he doesn't want to damage his gun hand.

1392
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: But one day, Liddy relates quote, I made a mistake.

1393
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,640
Speaker 1: I burned the underside of the second joint of my

1394
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: left index fingers so badly it required surgical attention. Fortunately

1395
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: the surgeon was from India and familiar with the practice,

1396
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 1: although he found it unusual in and allcidental I told him.

1397
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 1: He told me that it would take a year before

1398
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: he could fully straighten my left index finger, and then

1399
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: only after repeated exercise to stretch the scar tissue that

1400
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: would form in the angle of the joint I had.

1401
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: It seemed nearly cooked out the joint and lost at tendon.

1402
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean that sounds delicious, of course, it sounds

1403
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 2: like yeah. Nice.

1404
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: Thankfully the doctor was Indian, and so he'd seen many

1405
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: men light their own hands on fire, as everyone does

1406
01:11:58,439 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 1: in India.

1407
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 2: The fuck amazing, how many, like casual clear, cries for help.

1408
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 2: This is yeah, himself admits to constantly.

1409
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 1: I'm so rarely like the whole process of involuntary commitment

1410
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 1: is real fucked up. But like, I don't know, Man,

1411
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 1: if a guy comes to me saying I have developed

1412
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,120
Speaker 1: a habit of lighting my hand on fire to increase

1413
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: my will power, yeah, maybe that guy. Maybe that guy

1414
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: needs to be in medical care if he doesn't want

1415
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: to be, he needs some sort of help.

1416
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 2: Right.

1417
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: That is, he's a danger to himself and others if

1418
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: you're doing this, right, this is not reasonable behavior. This

1419
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: is not healthy. This is not certainly the behavior that

1420
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: a man with five children should be carrying out.

1421
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bad news, and you gotta.

1422
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way he describes this too, I think this

1423
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: is compulsive. I think there is something compulsive in his

1424
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 1: need to scarfy and injure himself. Right, yeah, this is

1425
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: far beyond any kind of actual will power building, right,

1426
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean, look, yeah.

1427
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 2: It does seem like like over the course of this tale,

1428
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 2: between the like animal mutilation at the top and this shit,

1429
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 2: it is like a little like of the Bastards and

1430
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 2: I've been party two and the show has been Party two.

1431
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 2: I guess it's just like his sheer incompetence and cowardice

1432
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 2: as what prevented. I mean, he has a lot of

1433
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 2: other tool He has a lot of other character tools

1434
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 2: that Yeah, this potentially could have gone a lot worse

1435
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 2: for humanity.

1436
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: This could have gone like Lyddy does not go as badly.

1437
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 1: And I think maybe his dad is credit for that.

1438
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: Maybe he's constantly held back from like setting off a

1439
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: series of bombs in like the fucking White House lawn

1440
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: by the fact that his dad wouldn't have been proud

1441
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 1: of that, right, Like that we may like that may

1442
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,560
Speaker 1: be the maybe, like we were just I was criticize

1443
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: the family a little bit, like maybe this is the

1444
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: best case scenario for Lyddy because he had that teeny

1445
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,560
Speaker 1: bit of restraint on his actions.

1446
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is like so hard to know to

1447
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,879
Speaker 2: go back and just go to the other timeline where.

1448
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 1: Maybe a little bit of a dexter situation, right, I

1449
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 1: guess we never know, are we currently don't know? Maybe

1450
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:21,240
Speaker 1: we can't know. Yeah, So, despite the fact that he's

1451
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: permanently injured himself doing this, Lyddy keeps burning himself both

1452
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: as a hobby and in the days before Watergate, as

1453
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: a recruitment tactic.

1454
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 2: Quote.

1455
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: She was flashily good looking, young, and had secretarial skills

1456
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: and expertise, and appeared able to attract men sexually if

1457
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: she wished, possibly even the candidate that means Nixon's opponent.

1458
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: At dinner, Miss Stevens seemed reluctant, bulking at the risks involved,

1459
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: and when I told her her identity would be revealed

1460
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: to no one and she could walk away any time

1461
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 1: if she feared exposure, she pointed out that I would

1462
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,800
Speaker 1: know her identity. I told her that no one could

1463
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,120
Speaker 1: force me to disclose anything. I chose not to reveal.

1464
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 1: She didn't believe me, and I was casting about for

1465
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 1: some way to convince her. When I noticed she's I

1466
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: told her to light her cigarette lighter and hold it out.

1467
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 1: She did, and I locked my gaze upon her eyes

1468
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: and placed my hand palm down over the flame. Presently,

1469
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 1: the flesh turned black, and when she smelled the scent

1470
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: of burning meat, Sherry Stevens broke for my gaze and

1471
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: pulled the lighter away from my hand. She seemed frightened badly,

1472
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 1: so I took pains to calm her, wrapping an ice

1473
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: cube against the burn with a napkin, and returning to

1474
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 1: my dinner. Pale. Miss Stevens said she was sure I

1475
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: would never betray her, but she excused herself as a candidate,

1476
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: invoking a just remembered plan to marry a Swiss airplane

1477
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 1: pilot in September of nineteen seventy two. When I told

1478
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 1: her that I'd be glad to have her services through

1479
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,560
Speaker 1: August at a very generous rate of pay, she refused

1480
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 1: and express a concern from my hand, asked to be

1481
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: taken home. Now, good on you, Sherry. That was the

1482
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 1: You're the only person in this entire series who's made

1483
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: an intelligent decision, Like if a stranger makes you burn

1484
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: his hand to the bone, you believe right A bounce.

1485
01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:00,720
Speaker 2: Again, he's telling this story. It is I it is

1486
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 2: so incomprehensible to me that like, from doing this to

1487
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 2: telling anyone about it. I don't know what is more bonkers?

1488
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 2: What a yeah, like bragging about this particular story, even

1489
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 2: if it's made up, It's so fucking nuts.

1490
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: Because he does brag about it. He's like, yeah, to

1491
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:21,759
Speaker 1: do this, you know, I'm dealing with some real hard people.

1492
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 1: This is the only way to take convince him I

1493
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: was serious, But it doesn't work. Yeah, like a normal person.

1494
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: She sees a man light himself on fire during a

1495
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: job interview, and it's like, probably don't want to be involved.

1496
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in business with that dude.

1497
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 1: But if you put in your LinkedIn, I could cut

1498
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 1: my wrist to the bone without bleeding to death. Well

1499
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: that's great, but I don't want to work for you.

1500
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah, I think I'm out.

1501
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I may be out of this one.

1502
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: So and again, one thing that's funny about this to

1503
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: me is that, like, You've got this lady who's you know,

1504
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,519
Speaker 1: living on the wrong side of the law, but she

1505
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: sees this man do this and is like, oh, I

1506
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 1: don't want to be anywhere near that guy. This guy's dangerous.

1507
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,639
Speaker 1: At the same time as this is happening, multiple Nixon

1508
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 1: staff members, men have privileged pedigree with ivy league degrees,

1509
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 1: find themselves in the same situation. Deep Throat will later

1510
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 1: claim that he saw Liddy do this light himself on

1511
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 1: fire trick at a party right like he was. And like,

1512
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: so multiple men in politics, you know, powerful men are

1513
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,600
Speaker 1: in the same situation, and they fail to act with

1514
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 1: the same perceptiveness Sherry shows. They're like well, clearly we

1515
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 1: need to be in business with this man.

1516
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1517
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 1: By way of an example, tough, Here's what John Deane

1518
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 1: writes about his first experience with Liddy's burning fetish. As

1519
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 1: he spoke, I noticed a bulky white bandage wrapped around

1520
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: his fist. What happened to your hand, Gordon? He shrugged, Oh, nothing, really,

1521
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 1: it looks serious. Well some might feel that way, but

1522
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 1: I don't. It was necessary. You see that I proved

1523
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 1: my strength to the men I'm thinking of recruiting to

1524
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:56,400
Speaker 1: assist me at the convention. What do you mean. Well,

1525
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 1: in my business, John, it's important that those I work

1526
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: with under stand I'm a man of strength, macho as

1527
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:02,880
Speaker 1: they say. So to prove myself to them, I held

1528
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: my hand over a candle until the flesh burned, which

1529
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 1: I did without flinching. I wanted them to know that

1530
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,799
Speaker 1: I could stand any amount of physical pain. My God, Gordon,

1531
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:11,599
Speaker 1: I didn't really know what to say, so I told

1532
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 1: him I hoped his hand healed quickly, which he also

1533
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: shrugged off. And again this lady, who is just like

1534
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, kind of in the shadier part of the world,

1535
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 1: immediately recognizes Nope, don't want to John, Deane sees this

1536
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 1: as crazy and is like, guess I'll continue working with

1537
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,760
Speaker 1: this man. Guess I'll task him with breaking the law

1538
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:31,759
Speaker 1: for Richard Nixon.

1539
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 2: It must just be that this woman actually knows tough

1540
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,720
Speaker 2: people as yes, yes, ide, it's like, well, this is nuts,

1541
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 2: fun It is in fact tough.

1542
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 1: Having made a number of mistakes in my life. Like,

1543
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,080
Speaker 1: the last people who are ever going to do something

1544
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 1: like this are dangerous people, right, people who can someone

1545
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 1: who like actually might be able to murder you and disappear.

1546
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 1: The body is not going to try to prove that

1547
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,879
Speaker 1: to you by lighting themselves on fire. Right, They generally

1548
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 1: don't need to lie actively. Yeah, they're actually real people. Right.

1549
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 1: So Dean claims that this moment is the point at

1550
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,840
Speaker 1: which he realizes Lydia's nuts, and that Bud Krogue had

1551
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 1: pushed Lyddy off on him so that Dean would take

1552
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: him off of the White House's hands. Right, That's why

1553
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 1: Dean thinks all of this gets started, right, and so

1554
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 1: all of this shit, basically I think that's happened here

1555
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 1: is like this desire to keep pushing Liddy down the

1556
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 1: ladder where he's not your problem, and this tickler which

1557
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 1: is constantly forcing people to provide updates on this illegal scheme.

1558
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:37,599
Speaker 1: It leads to a situation where eventually G. Gordon Liddy

1559
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:39,960
Speaker 1: is working for Creep and has a pocket full of

1560
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:42,600
Speaker 1: cash to live out his Cold War thriller dreams. So

1561
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: while John Dean and Jeb Magruder and John Mitchell, Bob

1562
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 1: Haldeman and Big Dicky Nix himself are all sleeping comfy,

1563
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,679
Speaker 1: Lyddy and Hunt are unguarded and unwatched as they send

1564
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:56,599
Speaker 1: their cubans into the dnc HQ at the Watergate Hotel

1565
01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,560
Speaker 1: on June seventeenth, nineteen seventy two. Bugs are installed in

1566
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 1: the telephones of several stappers and there are some fuck ups.

1567
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,720
Speaker 1: Hunt and I think one other guy gets stuck in

1568
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 1: the Watergate overnight and like a closet with like all

1569
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,280
Speaker 1: the liquor, and like Hunt winds up pissing in a

1570
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: whiskey bottle. But in the end they get out and

1571
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, escape with the job done and nobody gets caught. Right,

1572
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 1: that's the first Watergate break in. Unfortunately, it's a shit

1573
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,440
Speaker 1: job because all of these people are buffoons, and like McCord,

1574
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:30,559
Speaker 1: the bugging expert doesn't get like they pick the wrong bugs,

1575
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 1: the bugs aren't put in right, whatever the case, it's

1576
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: kind of unclear as to why. But like most of

1577
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 1: the taps don't work, and the ones that do they

1578
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 1: just kind of have some random secretaries and shit bugged

1579
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:43,479
Speaker 1: and it's mostly them like talking about who they're fucking right,

1580
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 1: It's like normal shit, right, nothing that's going to swing

1581
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 1: an election. So after all this goes down, Lyddy's superiors

1582
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:55,799
Speaker 1: are disappointed. One of the bugs he'd spent thirty grand

1583
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 1: on did not even function at all. Jeb McGruder described

1584
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: it as James Bond had been exposed as a bumbling clown. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1585
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 1: that should have been the end of it, right, But

1586
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:10,960
Speaker 1: in spite of this, there's still this need to provide

1587
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: some sort of intel thing. So Lyddy gets even more

1588
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 1: money to go back to fix the broken bugs. And

1589
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 1: this time you're like, you know what, so we know

1590
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 1: we get something. Have your guys take photos of every

1591
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 1: document INDNHQ, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of shit.

1592
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 1: So this necessitates number one, not just a quick break in,

1593
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 1: but spending four hours in the office. Hi, odds, you're

1594
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: gonna get caught doing that, and Lyddy becomes convinced because

1595
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:40,639
Speaker 1: everything sucks up the last time, I need to put

1596
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 1: my bug expert McCord in the room. He needs to

1597
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 1: be in there to fix and set up these new bugs. Right,

1598
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: And the only absolute direct guidance Liddy's gotten is do

1599
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 1: not let this get tied back to Nixon.

1600
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:54,880
Speaker 2: Right.

1601
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 1: McCord is running security for Nixon's re election campaign. He

1602
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 1: is also a former CIA man and a sitting lieutenant

1603
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: colonel in the Army Reserve with a public history as

1604
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 1: a spy. Like, there's no way this guy gets arrested

1605
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:11,639
Speaker 1: and it does not immediately expose the president to unacceptable risk.

1606
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,599
Speaker 1: But as Lyddy sees it, he has to break back in,

1607
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 1: not because it's likely to work, but because he and

1608
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 1: a Hunt will look like dummies if they don't right,

1609
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: they won't be taken seriously, they'll be exposed as buffoons,

1610
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 1: and he'll probably stop getting money. Right. This will probably

1611
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 1: be the end of his career if they don't go

1612
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: and get something. In his book, Lyddy Bitch's endlessly about

1613
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 1: how his funding had gotten slashed and how you know

1614
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 1: I couldn't afford to put anyone but McCord in there, right,

1615
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 1: because they weren't paying me enough to get a really

1616
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 1: good criminal who'd be impressed with my hand burning. So

1617
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 1: he sends McCord in, and our boy Lyddy is responsible

1618
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 1: for that. And he's also responsible for the main tactical

1619
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 1: error that the break in team makes on the ground,

1620
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 1: which is that they're trying. They don't want this door

1621
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: to lock after them when they break in, because it's

1622
01:22:57,840 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 1: going to make it hard to do everything they need

1623
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 1: to do. So they put a piece of tape across

1624
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:04,160
Speaker 1: the lock, right, which is like a thing you can do,

1625
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, it'll stop a door from auto latching. They

1626
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:12,400
Speaker 1: pace the tape horizontally rather than vertically, so part of

1627
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 1: the tape is sticking out, which makes it easy for

1628
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 1: say a security guard to spot. Now that is in

1629
01:23:18,920 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: fact what happened. A security guard notices the tape and

1630
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 1: busts them, right, or calls the cops and they bust them.

1631
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 1: But like Lyddy makes the call to place it horizontally.

1632
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:32,160
Speaker 1: And he does this because of his perceived expertise as

1633
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:34,639
Speaker 1: a spy. He has like a whole defense for why

1634
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:38,400
Speaker 1: this is necessary. Here's what he says, quote taping was

1635
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 1: a common, if disapproved practice of maintenance personnel in large buildings.

1636
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:43,760
Speaker 1: This should not have alarmed the guard, who could have

1637
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 1: been expected to remove it. I saw no reason that

1638
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: the guard should think of anything other than that the

1639
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:50,519
Speaker 1: maintenance people would have to be lectured. And he's like,

1640
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:54,959
Speaker 1: maintenance staff always tape locks horizontally. Burglars do it vertically. Therefore,

1641
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 1: if he finds it vertically tape, then he's going to

1642
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 1: call the cops. But he won't call the cops if

1643
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: it's horizontal. This is totally reasonable and the only way

1644
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 1: things should have gone. It's like, well, that's not how

1645
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 1: it went. Like you immediately got caught for doing this,

1646
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,960
Speaker 1: So like why are you defending this that way? Like

1647
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:11,720
Speaker 1: why are you acting as if like this is the

1648
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:13,320
Speaker 1: way things should have gone. I was like, yeah, but

1649
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:15,160
Speaker 1: it didn't. It didn't work.

1650
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 2: It was like you failed his I mean, it's it

1651
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:24,240
Speaker 2: is just like so childish, the like like justification of

1652
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 2: everything in a way that is genuinely impressive. It's like,

1653
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 2: how yeah, again, this is like fascists are some of

1654
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:37,320
Speaker 2: the least competent people on earth, and somehow and yet

1655
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 2: and yet we're barely keeping them at bay. We're not

1656
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 2: going to belabor this point. The Cubans and McCord get busted, right,

1657
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:52,679
Speaker 2: Lydian Hunt escape and Lyddy he seems to have immediately known,

1658
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 2: I'm going to prison right like that. That night he

1659
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 2: tells his wife like something went wrong, they got busted.

1660
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:00,519
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to jail, right, And the.

1661
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:03,720
Speaker 1: Way he describes it, he immediately recognizes as soon as

1662
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,040
Speaker 1: this happens, I am the highest up person in the

1663
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 1: Nixon campaign involved in this. None of the others know

1664
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:12,720
Speaker 1: the full story or know who else approved this. So

1665
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: I'm the turniquet, right if I keep my mouth shut,

1666
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 1: this can't go any higher than me, you know. And

1667
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:20,720
Speaker 1: this gets us to the last thing and the only

1668
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 1: thing that's exceptional about Liddy, right, the only he's good

1669
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 1: at right because he is a believer. He's a believer

1670
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: in the way no one else in politics is, really

1671
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:31,799
Speaker 1: And every other member of the conspiracy save the Cubans,

1672
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 1: will immediately roll on their fellows, right they start making

1673
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 1: deals with the doj Magruder and Dean like, they all

1674
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:41,800
Speaker 1: immediately like turn a fuck job on their own buddies, right,

1675
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 1: John Mitchell, like, they all roll right away, right, Lyddy

1676
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 1: from the jump says, I will not testify. I will

1677
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 1: not say a word. I don't speak, you know, I

1678
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,479
Speaker 1: don't testify, I don't talk to the FEDS, I don't nothing.

1679
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 1: And he doesn't like he does understand on that degree

1680
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: that is the he's a loyal henchman, right, Yeah, he

1681
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 1: does not fucking say anything. Now does that make him

1682
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: a good henchman? While he's the reason why Nixon resigns, right,

1683
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,720
Speaker 1: he is the he is the whole cause of Watergate. Right,

1684
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 1: So I don't know if he's a good henchman, but

1685
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 1: he is loyal, right. Nixon seems to have recognized this

1686
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 1: in recorded conversations. He starts talking about how Lyddy has

1687
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 1: a screw lose, he's not all there mentally, how did

1688
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: we let this guy be in charge of this? He's

1689
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: clearly not like not like he's not doing well. This

1690
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,679
Speaker 1: is especially the case when the CIA, because like, once

1691
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: this all blows up and it becomes clear that like

1692
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 1: the Nixon white House is fucked, the CIA turns over photos,

1693
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 1: the photos that they'd had developed like that show Lyddy

1694
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 1: there and like yeah, because he had sent participation evidence

1695
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: of his participation in a B and E to the

1696
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 1: Central Intelligence Agency. Oh my god, but he doesn't say shit.

1697
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 1: He keeps his mouth shut. His refusal to help the

1698
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 1: investigation gets him this gnarly twenty year prison sentence. Now

1699
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:07,080
Speaker 1: Lyddy gets off after like four years, four years in change,

1700
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: something like that. And it's because, in part because he's

1701
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:13,280
Speaker 1: just the guy who doesn't roll, he earns a lot

1702
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 1: of sympathy in weird places. The New York Times eventually

1703
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 1: writes an article talking about how he needs to be pardoned,

1704
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 1: and like it's Carter who pardons him? Right, Like it's

1705
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: it's this gross.

1706
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 2: That's also classic classic democrats.

1707
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 1: Classic democrats, like well, you know, he did the wrong thing,

1708
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:33,599
Speaker 1: but he wasn't a bad man. No, he's a bad

1709
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 1: man needed a bad thing. And like like, yes, there is,

1710
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: I will say, you know, as again, as a guy

1711
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 1: who's been shady for a chunk of his life, there's

1712
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: a thing that's respectable about refusing to roll. Right, I'll

1713
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 1: give that. I will give him that, especially when you

1714
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 1: compare it to these descendants of his, like the jan six,

1715
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:56,440
Speaker 1: people all of whom immediately rolled on their buddies, immediately disavowed,

1716
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 1: publicly said oh you know, even if they were like

1717
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:00,680
Speaker 1: going on podcasts to talk about how I was just

1718
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 1: lying when I said that I'm ashamed of my behavior.

1719
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: They all claim publicly I did the wrong thing. This

1720
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 1: was bad, it shouldn't have happened. Lyddy never apologizes, never

1721
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 1: pretends he's anything but proud of what he did, and

1722
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:15,760
Speaker 1: he never rolls, And compared to a lot of like

1723
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 1: that is there's a thing you have to respect in

1724
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: that even if it's not not good, but you respect it, right,

1725
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 1: which I do, Like there is there was one honest,

1726
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 1: legitimate thing about geegword and Lyddie because he had always

1727
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:30,040
Speaker 1: and I think you get the feeling. Part of why

1728
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:34,880
Speaker 1: he behaves so consistently in this regard is that he

1729
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 1: sees this finally is his chance to prove that he's

1730
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 1: He's not courage he's a warrior, right, never got to fight,

1731
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 1: never got to pull my gun on anyone, really, but

1732
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:48,360
Speaker 1: I can refuse to talk, yeah, and be willing to

1733
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: do twenty years in prison, and he.

1734
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:51,839
Speaker 2: Was I can be a good soldier.

1735
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 1: Finally he is, and he is in this regret it's

1736
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:57,719
Speaker 1: bad up to that point. Yeah, he is the reason

1737
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 1: all of this happens. But that's the one thing about

1738
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:05,120
Speaker 1: him that's real. You know, yeah, I listen.

1739
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:07,960
Speaker 2: I still going back to what we said earlier, I

1740
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 2: still think, having heard more of this story, there's a

1741
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 2: real chance this is probably, even for humanity's sake, the

1742
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:17,719
Speaker 2: best case version of the g Gordon Liddy story.

1743
01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:21,439
Speaker 1: I think so, right, I think that may actually still

1744
01:29:21,479 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 1: be the case. Now he's going to be more toxic

1745
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:26,560
Speaker 1: actually later in life. You know, we'll talk about it.

1746
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 1: We'll talk about one of these We'll come back later.

1747
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to do more than two weeks in

1748
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 1: a row on lady. His time in prison is a

1749
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 1: fascinating story. He's a really interesting guy there, his time

1750
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,599
Speaker 1: after prison, his you know this, this speaking tour he

1751
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 1: goes on with Tim Leary and his he helps to

1752
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,639
Speaker 1: invent talk radio. He actually gets his job in radio

1753
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:49,600
Speaker 1: in part because of a rush Limbaugh. Yeah, all that

1754
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:54,599
Speaker 1: is interesting. It's more toxic, certainly, it's valuable. But this

1755
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 1: should let you know who the man was and why

1756
01:29:57,200 --> 01:29:57,759
Speaker 1: he matters.

1757
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus Christ, Yeah, fucking I mean again, it's the

1758
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,720
Speaker 2: I guess you can't say sniffling, but whatever the fuck

1759
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,679
Speaker 2: was wrong with him, just what a what a little wiener?

1760
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's he is a wiener. He is a weirdo.

1761
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:18,639
Speaker 1: He is also somehow more honorable and respectable than every

1762
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:21,840
Speaker 1: living member of the Republican establishment today.

1763
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, all those things are true.

1764
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 1: An objectively bad because again there is some degree to

1765
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:31,639
Speaker 1: which he was willing to sacrifice for something greater than himself.

1766
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 1: Yeah that was Richard Nixon. But because again the man

1767
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 1: had terrible judgment. But that is something, right, It's more

1768
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 1: than like Enrique fucking Tario. Ever, Yeah, I would have managed,

1769
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: you know, right, like all these folks like, it's not

1770
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 1: it's not cynical. He's a very like, you know, fifties

1771
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 1: version of this fucking her not at all fucking cynical. Yeah,

1772
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: because he does. And it's one of those things where

1773
01:30:57,280 --> 01:30:59,720
Speaker 1: he's like he's totally time, like you know, there's a chance,

1774
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:01,639
Speaker 1: you'll know, even get a pardon, right that that won't

1775
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 1: be possible. And that's fine. If I got to spend

1776
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:05,639
Speaker 1: the rest of my life in prison for this, I'll

1777
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 1: do it, you know. Yeah, So there you go. The

1778
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:13,759
Speaker 1: g Gordon Liddy story.

1779
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, it's it's it's fucking bonkers. That's not

1780
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:20,759
Speaker 2: even the whole of it. But yeah, no, no, certainly

1781
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 2: plenty Jesus.

1782
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,920
Speaker 1: I you know, I didn't think I thought we would

1783
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 1: do an episode on his life before getting into the

1784
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 1: White House and then an episode that's the White House

1785
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 1: in Watergate? Right, And what do you cut out? Really,

1786
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 1: what do you cut out of this man's story? Should

1787
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 1: I have not given it? Every single time he brings

1788
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:44,640
Speaker 1: up the SS it was too many times to not

1789
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 1: talk about, like.

1790
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 2: And truly this is just in his book that needs

1791
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:56,439
Speaker 2: he did it codsway way more times. Yeah, God, because

1792
01:31:56,439 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 2: an editor for sure was like, I got a I'm

1793
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 2: holding you to a tenth of the SS stories. Gee. Yeah,

1794
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:10,240
Speaker 2: there's no fucking way.

1795
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 1: No fucking way. So funny, all right, Oh that's gonna be.

1796
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:17,720
Speaker 1: It's gonna be it for us at Behind the Bastards. Andrew,

1797
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,880
Speaker 1: you got anything to plug? Yeah, same old. Thanks for

1798
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:22,800
Speaker 1: having me? Yosis Racist is my podcast?

1799
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 2: Uh? The Entertainment Community Fund. I don't know that's it.

1800
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe by the time this comes out, we'll have stuff,

1801
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 2: you know, we'll be done striking faster risk almost certainly not.

1802
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 1: It's possible, uh, and it's but not probable. Look, if

1803
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:45,200
Speaker 1: you want to make the strike end, find the most

1804
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:48,640
Speaker 1: dangerous and irrational person you know, and give them a

1805
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:51,680
Speaker 1: quarter of a million dollars to try something. You know,

1806
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 1: I don't.

1807
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,600
Speaker 2: There's a I realizing there's a real chance. I'm the

1808
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 2: writers Guilds G Gordon Ladies.

1809
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 1: That's okay, Andrew, that's the whole reason behind super Soaker

1810
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:07,720
Speaker 1: Full of Piss, right, That's that's our dream. You and

1811
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 1: I can be the Howard Hunt and g Gordon Lyddy

1812
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:12,040
Speaker 1: of the w g Ah.

1813
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 2: We're the crazies. Yeah, we're the craziest. Yeah, you know,

1814
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 2: let's say what you will? We are loyal as fuck.

1815
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:19,640
Speaker 1: That's right, we'll be, We will be. We will be

1816
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 1: loyal to the end, even as we destroy the entire

1817
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 1: guild with our incompetence.

1818
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:29,559
Speaker 2: Does that make you and your team for now?

1819
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:30,599
Speaker 1: Wow?

1820
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 2: Wow?

1821
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:34,960
Speaker 1: You can tell we've been here for three hours because

1822
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 1: that's not normally a Sophie joke.

1823
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 2: That's true. It was really necessary.

1824
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 1: Uh huh, what do we say?

1825
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 2: Go to hell?

1826
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:49,720
Speaker 1: Go to Hell? I love you.

1827
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:55,560
Speaker 2: Behind the Bastard's the production of cool Zone Media. For

1828
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:58,760
Speaker 2: more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia

1829
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 2: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio, app,

1830
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.