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Speaker 1: Well, what's happens way up at Angela Yee.

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Speaker 2: I'm Angela Yee and we have a special guest today,

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Speaker 2: lion On TJ. Tullman, author of How I Stop Child

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Speaker 2: Support Legally?

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Speaker 1: Yes, Now, child support is always a.

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Speaker 2: Hot topic up here, Okay, So first of all, let's

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Speaker 2: talk about you and what made you decide to write

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Speaker 2: this book.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I was put in a situation where I had

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Speaker 3: to represent myself in a two year hearing against child

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Speaker 3: support in the County of Los Angeles and ultimately got

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Speaker 3: my case dismissed for extrinsic fraud after twenty two years.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So what happened?

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Speaker 3: So they started a child support case against me and

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Speaker 3: I found out about it seven years after it opened.

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Speaker 3: So when I found out about the case, I was

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Speaker 3: already twenty four thousand dollars in arrears because it had

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Speaker 3: accumulated and they add up compounded interests on top of

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Speaker 3: the money.

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Speaker 1: That's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: So it's already twenty four thousand dollars in arrears. When

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Speaker 3: I find out about the case, I contact them and say, hey,

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Speaker 3: what's going on? They say, well, you know, you had

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Speaker 3: six months to respond according to family code such and

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Speaker 3: such and it's been seven years. I'm like seven years.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean it's been seven years? They said, well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's been seven years. So there's nothing that you can do.

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Speaker 3: You may want to contact the court, and you know,

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Speaker 3: the contact them. I contacted the court. They said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's been it's been the time it passed. Your response

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Speaker 3: is untimely. And that went on for another thirteen years.

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Speaker 2: So was this a situation where they were supposed to

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Speaker 2: at least serve you. Yes, so you knew that you

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Speaker 2: had a court date. So what happened when they tried

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Speaker 2: to serve you?

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Speaker 3: They said they allegedly said that they served me at

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Speaker 3: which I later proved was a vacant house. Oh wow,

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Speaker 3: So they forged the signature of someone named Michael Tillman.

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Speaker 3: My name is Lonnelle Tillman. Michael is a common name,

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Speaker 3: but there's not a person named Michael and my family.

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Speaker 3: So they said that they served me at this date,

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Speaker 3: at this time. And what I proved in court I

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Speaker 3: subpoena the Department of Walks in power to come testify

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Speaker 3: of who lived at this place on this day. They

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Speaker 3: said they didn't have any power there. I also subpoena

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Speaker 3: the owner of the home.

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Speaker 1: You had to do this on your own, on my own.

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Speaker 3: I subpoena the owner of the home, and she said, well,

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Speaker 3: on this date, at this time, I didn't have any

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Speaker 3: tennis there, So how could you serve somebody at this location?

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Speaker 2: That's DJ Nord just walked into I know, I know

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Speaker 2: if you wanted to be on this was like something

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Speaker 2: going on here.

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Speaker 1: And so okay, so let's go back to this.

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Speaker 2: So this was actually your child, No, it wasn't even

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Speaker 2: your child. Who all right, so the plot thickens. So

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Speaker 2: who was the person that was suing you for a

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Speaker 2: child support?

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Speaker 3: The County of Los Angeles?

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Speaker 1: But who was the child? Like with the like?

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Speaker 3: So that it started because the let's just take it

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Speaker 3: back at the time, whether the child was conceived, I

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Speaker 3: was twelve years old. Its deep, it's unlayers, the unpacked

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Speaker 3: all of this. So once I turned eighteen, they started

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Speaker 3: the case. I found out about seven years later. So

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Speaker 3: during that time they was given the mother government assistance,

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Speaker 3: so cachet food stamps. So this is how this money

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Speaker 3: started to accumulate.

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Speaker 1: Did you even know the mother?

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Speaker 3: I know her?

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy because she was a friend of my cousins

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Speaker 3: at the time. Again, I'm twelve years old. This is

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Speaker 3: this is in nineteen ninety, so it was a different

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Speaker 3: time back then. So it's like she I met her

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Speaker 3: the day that we attempted to do something. That was

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Speaker 3: the first day I met her. I'm twelve years old,

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Speaker 3: and it gets even was she I think she was

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Speaker 3: fourteen or fifteen and me not. It was being my

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Speaker 3: first time. I never even penetrated her. Okay, like I

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Speaker 3: never penetrate to her at all. So as time went on,

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Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, she she had a baby, but it's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: what is it my child? Again? Now I'm thirteen years old,

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Speaker 3: We're in nineteen ninety. I don't there's no communication between

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Speaker 3: families and things of this nature. And that's the last

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Speaker 3: that I heard of it until twenty and twenty, I

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Speaker 3: mean two thousand and three, when I got a call

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Speaker 3: from HR saying that they finished oart going to shitt

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Speaker 3: my checks.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Because I always hear stories about people who have

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Speaker 2: child support. They owe back child support, and then they

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Speaker 2: can do multiple things before they arrest you, because they'll

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Speaker 2: garnish your wages, they'll maybe revoke your driver's license.

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Speaker 1: So what were the things that happened to you?

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Speaker 3: So at that time, they the first thing they did

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Speaker 3: they suspended my license. They suspended my license. They put

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Speaker 3: a freeze on my passport, which I didn't even know

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Speaker 3: because I wasn't trying to get a passport, but they

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Speaker 3: did it anyway. Hev They sent after a time it

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Speaker 3: had accumulated, they sent the forty eight thousand dollars bank

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Speaker 3: levy to my account. I didn't have forty eight thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars in there, but what was in there, it was

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Speaker 3: all I had and they took it all, So it

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Speaker 3: was it was rough.

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Speaker 2: So then you so then but the women had to

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Speaker 2: the woman who had the child. She did go and

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Speaker 2: say that you were the father, and that's why. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 2: so that's why this happened. So there was nobody else

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Speaker 2: she was claiming was if I the only you correct?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: All right, So then you get this, Then you find

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Speaker 2: out seven years in arrears and you have to end

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Speaker 2: up going and representing yourself. So you weren't even able

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Speaker 2: to get an attorney to represent you.

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Speaker 3: No, at that time. So just so you understand, when

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Speaker 3: I found out about it, this is seven years, right,

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Speaker 3: I go to the court. The course tell me you

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Speaker 3: had six months to respond. There's nothing that we can do.

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Speaker 3: This went on for another thirteen years, so now it's

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Speaker 3: twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: Right, So now they're garnish machine bango levies, license suspensions

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Speaker 3: off and on.

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Speaker 1: That affects your credit.

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Speaker 2: That affects you being able to buy a house, get

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Speaker 2: a car, sometimes even get a job because people do

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Speaker 2: check your credit in those situations.

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Speaker 3: So this went on for twenty years. So when I

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Speaker 3: took them to court and everything changed for me. So

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Speaker 3: I'm paying them. On top of the money that they're taking,

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Speaker 3: I'm paying additional fifty dollars so I can keep my license.

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Speaker 3: But every year my license got suspended for a system error.

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Speaker 3: So at this point, like I said, this, thirteen years

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Speaker 3: don't went by. We're doing this dance. Every year. I

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Speaker 3: gotta call you to pay you another fifty dollars to

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Speaker 3: release my license, pay the DMV another seventy five to

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Speaker 3: reinstate my license, and now I gotta do this again

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Speaker 3: next year because it's going to happen again. So this

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Speaker 3: particular year, I'm like, yo, why do I keep going

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Speaker 3: through this like, man, this is fraud. Like what And

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Speaker 3: a lady said fraud. What do you mean fraud? You

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Speaker 3: got served?

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Speaker 1: Like wait, I got sir, so you didn't even realize.

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Speaker 3: And she's like, you got served. I'm like, well, tell

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Speaker 3: me when I got served. She like, she placed me

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Speaker 3: on hold. She come back. I'm sorry, mister Tillman. We

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Speaker 3: do not have your signature. I'm like, well, I know

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Speaker 3: you don't have my signature because I've been with me

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Speaker 3: every day of my life.

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Speaker 1: I know I didn't get served.

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Speaker 3: So she was. But immediately she said, that don't matter anyway,

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Speaker 3: because you volunteered into the program. I did what I said, Well,

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Speaker 3: tell me what day I volunteered. I bull crap, you

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Speaker 3: not erji. This lady put me on hold. I'm on

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Speaker 3: the hold. She come back. I'm sorry, mister Tillman, we

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Speaker 3: do not have your signature. I'm going crazy, as anyone there.

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Speaker 3: I need to speak manager, this, this, this, this, and

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Speaker 3: this they give me to. It's a department called Umbus.

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Speaker 3: They're like eternal affairs for child support. But they didn't

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Speaker 3: do anything. And from that point on, I knew that

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Speaker 3: they were supposed to serve me. And at that point

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Speaker 3: I knew that child support was volunteered because she said,

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Speaker 3: I'll volunteered into the program.

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, so okay, so child support was voluntary.

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Speaker 1: Child support is voluntary, it's voluntary.

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Speaker 2: So okay. I did not know that child support is voluntary.

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Speaker 2: I thought that if you want to put, you know,

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Speaker 2: your child's father on child support or your child's mother,

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Speaker 2: because it works both ways, right, you go to court

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Speaker 2: and then they have to show up to court, But

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Speaker 2: then you cannot volunteer for the program.

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Speaker 3: So the thing is you have to consent in order

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Speaker 3: for them to establish the child support case. They have

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Speaker 3: to establish paternity. Paternity is voluntary. Now, whether you're signing

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Speaker 3: an acknowledgment of fraternity in the hospital, or you're doing

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Speaker 3: a DNA testing, or are you actually showing up to

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Speaker 3: inherent and voluntarily consenting that this is your child. So

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Speaker 3: once that happens, they need your consent in order to

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Speaker 3: proceed forward. And there is and what a lot of

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Speaker 3: people don't understand is there's a Supreme Court case law

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Speaker 3: it is called Blessing versus Freestone, where the child support

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Speaker 3: themselves and the course ruled that there is no entitlement

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Speaker 3: to child support. There is no right to child support

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Speaker 3: and where people always saying well this is in that case,

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Speaker 3: child support actually told on themselves and that they always

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Speaker 3: using that child support is in the best interest of

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Speaker 3: the child. In that case, they got sued by five

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Speaker 3: women from Arizona who their children were receiving government assistants.

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Speaker 3: And when the people they child support was keeping all

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Speaker 3: of the money, and the ladies they sued child supported

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Speaker 3: like hey, why are you keeping all of our money?

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Speaker 3: And child support say, hey, that ain't your money, that's

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Speaker 3: our money. And they told them that child support is

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Speaker 3: not in the benefit of the child, that's in the

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Speaker 3: best interest of the state, and that's that's what they

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Speaker 3: can collect all of those arrears.

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Speaker 2: Wow, So how do you think that child support because

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Speaker 2: it is I think across the board a lot of

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Speaker 2: people would agree that it's a very flawed system. All right, So,

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Speaker 2: having gone through what you've gone through, what do you

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Speaker 2: think is the best way for a child support to

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Speaker 2: exist or should it exist?

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Speaker 1: How can that happen?

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Speaker 2: Because there is a responsibility for when paternity is established

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Speaker 2: that it shouldn't have to be just on one parent

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Speaker 2: to have to take care of that.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts having gone through this.

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Speaker 3: I do believe honestly that if a person don't take

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Speaker 3: care of their offspring, then they need to be on

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Speaker 3: child support one thousand percent. The issue is Title four

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Speaker 3: of the Social Security Act and Title four DED That's

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Speaker 3: what needs to change because they're still operating on procedures

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Speaker 3: that were put in place in nineteen thirty five.

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Speaker 1: Right, times have definitely changed.

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Speaker 3: Times have definitely changed. So the establishment of paternity they

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Speaker 3: violate the separation of powers. There's three branches of government, judicial, legislative,

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Speaker 3: and executive. If you partake in one branch of government,

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Speaker 3: you can't partake in another branch. Child support. They create

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Speaker 3: their own laws, family code, they're enforced their own codes

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Speaker 3: through child support enforcement, and they find you guilty in

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Speaker 3: their own hearings, which is partaking in a judicial That's

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Speaker 3: what needs to change in regards to child support.

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Speaker 2: So this whole journey is what caused you to do

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Speaker 2: a lot of research because representing yourself is not an

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Speaker 2: easy task to do anyth what's your profession outside.

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Speaker 3: Of I am the trustee of a global T shirt

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Speaker 3: print company. I didn't have no legal background. It's just everything.

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Speaker 3: I used their own evidence against them, so I kept

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Speaker 3: it real simple. Did you follow your own policy? Yes?

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Speaker 3: Or no? I didn't have a legal background. So that's

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Speaker 3: all that I can do.

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Speaker 1: Do you get reimbursed?

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Speaker 2: Then what happens after that when it turns out that

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Speaker 2: the way that they allegedly served you, even though they didn't,

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Speaker 2: was it ego and.

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Speaker 1: Had you paid so?

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Speaker 3: Yes? So when the case got dismissed, they offered to

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Speaker 3: pay me back dollar for dollar, no interest, no nothing, right,

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Speaker 3: I've declined it. So I took them to federal court

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Speaker 3: for twenty two years of damages and as of right

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Speaker 3: now we have a law student in federal court. They've

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Speaker 3: made two settlement offers since then. But it's just disrespectful.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so being that your checks for garners, did

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Speaker 2: this mean that you had to kind of get paid

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Speaker 2: off the books for a period of time, Because I

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Speaker 2: would think anybody I know people who have child support

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Speaker 2: cases that when they are working, they're like, is there

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Speaker 2: a way I can get paid? So it doesn't go

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Speaker 2: through that because my checks are garnished.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, at that point, that's how I And

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Speaker 3: that's the thing I didn't. I wasn't working for those

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Speaker 3: first seven years. I was in the streets so there

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Speaker 3: was nothing for them to garners. Okay, so once I

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Speaker 3: got a job, that's when you found out. That's when

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Speaker 3: I found out about it. So I wasn't going back

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Speaker 3: to the streets. So your only option is to get

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Speaker 3: garnished because you got to work. So I wasn't going

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Speaker 3: back to that lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: And that's also something that your job knows about that too,

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Speaker 2: when they start garnishing. So that's embarrassing because it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: he's not taking care of his kids, he's not paying

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Speaker 2: his child support.

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Speaker 1: What happened to the woman who had accused you?

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Speaker 3: Nothing? There's no accountability there. And the thing is, I

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Speaker 3: really don't even like talking about her in regards to

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Speaker 3: child support because she was a pond like it had

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Speaker 3: what child support does? It has nothing to do with

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Speaker 3: the actual woman like there. And my goal is not

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Speaker 3: to tear down a black woman. But the thing is,

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Speaker 3: anything that I say in regards to her and her

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Speaker 3: involvement in it is not going to be good.

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Speaker 1: So that's did you raise that child like it was

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Speaker 1: your own?

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Speaker 3: No, I had no relationship with.

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Speaker 2: Her, right, That's what I'm asking because once you find out,

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Speaker 2: and once you is that is that something that would

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Speaker 2: cause you to want to reach out and say, okay,

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Speaker 2: I want to get to have a relationship at least.

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Speaker 3: With which which I did. My sister and him connected

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Speaker 3: on Facebook as he got older, and at one point

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Speaker 3: I reached out to her directly. I called my cousin.

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Speaker 3: My cousin did some research, founder I called her. I said, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm getting older, Like, let's just figure it out.

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Speaker 3: If it is. Let's I know, we know that I

286
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 3: didn't penetrate it. We didn't. We was trying. Let's just

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Speaker 3: try to figure it out. And I called her. She

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Speaker 3: had me on hold for a whole hour, and you

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Speaker 3: held on I'm on the phone.

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Speaker 1: I forgot.

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Speaker 3: I was on the hold that because she tells me

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Speaker 3: he don't even live with me no more. He lives

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Speaker 3: with the grandmother of my other kid. I'm like, all, well,

294
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Speaker 3: give me the grandmother number. She said, all right, She

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Speaker 3: placed me on hold. I promise you. I'm on the

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Speaker 3: hold for over an hour. I hang up. I call

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Speaker 3: right back, like, yo, what's up with a number? She

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Speaker 3: was like, when ain't gonna give me some? What are

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00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 3: you talking about? What I'm gonna give you some? Like this?

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Speaker 3: This is why I don't even because anything that I

301
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Speaker 3: say about her is going right, and that's not my goal.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And you know, this does more than anything affect the child,

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Speaker 2: because this child is thinking, like, that's my dad. My

305
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Speaker 2: dad wasn't here, you know, for me, So you were

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Speaker 2: the only dad that he thought.

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Speaker 1: Did he was? He aware that you were supposed to be.

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Speaker 3: So when I actually spoke with him, he told me

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Speaker 3: that in the beginning, my mother told me that you

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Speaker 3: were my father. As I got older, she told me

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Speaker 3: who my actual father was, And this is who I

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Speaker 3: know my father to be. This is the relationship I have.

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Speaker 3: He is my father, and that's where we that's where

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Speaker 3: we left for that.

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Speaker 2: So now we're waiting to find out what kind of

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Speaker 2: So now you have a lawsuit against the state of California,

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Speaker 2: is that or.

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Speaker 3: Child support enforcement in the County of Los Angeles?

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Speaker 2: The County of Los Angeles, And so what is it

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Speaker 2: that you would take from them? Because this is something

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Speaker 2: that affected your life for years, for twenty two years,

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Speaker 2: that's not a small thing, you know, checks being garnished

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Speaker 2: people knowing about that also mentally feeling like you couldn't

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Speaker 2: live up to your responsibilities maybe as a you know,

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Speaker 2: perhaps I'm a dad, perhaps I'm not.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean because you have like chapter five of

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Speaker 3: my book is called child support institutionalize, and like that's

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Speaker 3: a real thing. Like when that case got dismissed for fraud,

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Speaker 3: and I want to be clear, it got dismissed for fraud.

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Speaker 3: You don't just go back to live living a happy life.

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Speaker 3: Is I've been under these conditions for twenty two years,

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Speaker 3: so like it was hard for me to even put

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00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,679
Speaker 3: things in my name. It's like I just don't know

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00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 3: if they're gonna take it or and it's like I

335
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 3: hated had to even tell myself. Like at times I

336
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 3: would go to like I see a ATM, this is

337
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 3: and it's it's crazy and you probably gonna let why

338
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 3: do you get get to just check it on your phone?

339
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,119
Speaker 3: But I would stop at ATMs. I just want to

340
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 3: see that I have what's the balance, Like like what.

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Speaker 1: Was your credit score during this time?

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00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 3: It was in the five hundreds.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you can't do anything.

344
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 3: You can't do anything in the five hundreds. And then

345
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 3: even as it goes up, it's still once those negative

346
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,120
Speaker 3: they get to hitting and they is negative, negative, negative.

347
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Speaker 2: It don't go nowhere, right, if you think about the

348
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,399
Speaker 2: things you could have been able to do with the money,

349
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,640
Speaker 2: with the credit score, opportunity call yeah, with the yeah,

350
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Speaker 2: absolutely yeah.

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Speaker 3: So all of that is included in that twenty two

352
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Speaker 3: years of that.

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Speaker 1: Now you're not still representing yourself, are you? Do you? Yeah,

354
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,160
Speaker 1: you still are because I yeah, okay.

355
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Speaker 3: I don't have I don't have the finances to go

356
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 3: against the County of Los Angeles in federal court. They're

357
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 3: going to bury me. So luckily for me, I have

358
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 3: a fee waiver. So because to represent yourself in federal court,

359
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 3: it's pretty piicy, and I mean, you know.

360
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 2: I would feel like an attorney would think that you're

361
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 2: going to actually win this case and that therefore they

362
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 2: would be able to get compensated, you know, a percentage

363
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 2: of what you end up getting.

364
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 3: I mean, we way up with Angeline, so hopefully.

365
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 2: So I mean that's what I'm thinking could potentially happen,

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00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 2: because this feels like something that also I'm sure other

367
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 2: people have been affected. You know, You're not the only

368
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 2: person something like this, of course not happened to And

369
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,399
Speaker 2: this is not a way to knock people who should

370
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 2: be paying child support. But this is a way to

371
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 2: say This wasn't even your child. You were never served,

372
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 2: you didn't even live at that address, and then why

373
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 2: should you have to suffer from the repercussions of that?

374
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,719
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I want to make it very clear, like

375
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 3: the when I say child support is fraud, it is

376
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 3: not to challenge parents' responsibility to take care of their children.

377
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 3: That's not what this is. I'm challenging the child support

378
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 3: system itself. Did you follow your own policies? Yes or no?

379
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,880
Speaker 3: That's it. We just want to make it even because

380
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 3: when if a person doesn't take care of their kids,

381
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 3: they need to be on child support one thousand percent.

382
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

383
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 3: And I just also want to be clear too, Anything

384
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 3: that I say up here is not legal advice. I'm

385
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 3: not an attorney, but I represented myself, you know, to

386
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 3: be able to obtain remedy.

387
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,680
Speaker 2: Do you think that there should be some accountability for

388
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 2: the mom legally?

389
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 3: Yes? For yeah, if you go, if you partake and

390
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,639
Speaker 3: lie and assist in the fraud, then yeah, you should be.

391
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 1: Held a fraud.

392
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, just like them PPP longs.

393
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, because like you gotta think, like, I

394
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 3: represented myself in their own venue and I got them

395
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 3: to say that they committed fraud after twenty two. That

396
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 3: wasn't easy, right, that wasn't easy. I know a few

397
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 3: people that got their case dismissed, but to have it

398
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 3: dismissed for fraud extrinsic fraud, to be exact, and that's

399
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 3: just because they don't follow their own procedures.

400
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 2: And is there something more that you're trying to do

401
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 2: as far as helping other people be in this situation?

402
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 3: And that's the whole thing with the platform child Supporters

403
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 3: fraud dot com or even the ig child Supporters Fraud.

404
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 3: I educate parents on their parental rights on how to

405
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,160
Speaker 3: because especially and it's not just one sided for men,

406
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 3: but it's ninety eight percent of people on child support

407
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 3: is men. A lot of them don't even know that

408
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 3: they have parental rights, and it's just to educate them

409
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 3: that you have parental rights. There's a Supreme Court case

410
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 3: law it's called Santowski versus Cramer, which says that every

411
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,880
Speaker 3: natural parent has a fundamental liberty interest and the care,

412
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 3: custody and management over their children. So there's a lot

413
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 3: of parental alienation going on. So my my my thing

414
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 3: is just educating parents that you do have parental rights.

415
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 3: And you can fight to get more time with your children, okay.

416
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: And as you should want to. Sometimes that can be

417
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,959
Speaker 2: a really difficult thing. Now you also you do have

418
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 2: children now though, right, Okay, how many?

419
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 3: I got three?

420
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: Three kids? And so PAYTI support on any of these? No, okay,

421
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm paying?

422
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, No, my kids resided with me every day

423
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: of they life.

424
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: Wow, you should be okay.

425
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, like so for me, like even all three of

426
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 3: my kids resided with me every day of their life.

427
00:21:54,400 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 3: So I'm a I'm a great parent, I believe you know.

428
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: So how much did you get? How much did you

429
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: end up paying in total, and that they've garnished.

430
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: From you, that they garnered from it. It was sixty

431
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 3: seven thousand.

432
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: Okay, sixty seven thousand, and so they were trying to

433
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 2: offer you just sixty seven thousand flat and you were like, no,

434
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 2: there's all kinds of things that this actually caused issues.

435
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 1: For me in many different ways.

436
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 2: And then interest, you know, sixty seven thousand back then

437
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 2: is not what it is now at all today with inflation.

438
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah no, and on top of interest, on top of

439
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: you could have been purchasing you know, anything.

440
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 3: Anything, And that's the thing is just they don't care,

441
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 3: Like even after you said you committed fraud, and then

442
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: you still turn around and say, or we'll offer you

443
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 3: this and no interest, no anything, just take this and

444
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 3: go away. Nah, I'm not doing that. I'm not taking

445
00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 3: it because it's as my mess is bigger than Nino Brown, Like, yeah, no,

446
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 3: if y'all don't, I'm trying to take the whole thing

447
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 3: down to where y'all not following your own policies. And

448
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: that's that's that's the main problem, and that's why I

449
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: keep saying it.

450
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people will say that child support

451
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: system is flawed in many different ways, you know. Again,

452
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: like I always want to make sure whoever is the

453
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: main caregiver, because somebody crawled in for asked yesterday and

454
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: their issue was that they had a child and the

455
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: father I guess got back together with his ex and

456
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: now it's like you put me on child support. I'm

457
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 2: not doing anything for my kid anymore. And that's it.

458
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: And as she said, he's not even paying the child support.

459
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 2: But the system will take care of that in that

460
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: situation because he's already on child support. If you don't pay,

461
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 2: you know, they'll do all kinds of things that will

462
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 2: make your life more difficult and then end up garnishing.

463
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's like, that's the wages. I posted something

464
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: last week to where a guy and the girl they was,

465
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 3: you know, having a conversation and I believe he paid

466
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 3: like twenty two hundred of month or something like that,

467
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 3: and she was like, yo, why you not buying your

468
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 3: kid nothing for Christmas? And he was like, well, I

469
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 3: paid twenty two hundred. I can't afford it. And it's

470
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 3: just like for me, it's a slippery slope because it's like,

471
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 3: I don't see the point of making your kids suffer

472
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,959
Speaker 3: because of what y'all got going on.

473
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 2: Like some people feel like I don't want to give

474
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: her nobody, but not understanding that whether she spends it

475
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 2: on herself or the kids, money does end up having to,

476
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 2: you know, go towards your child as far as housing, food, school, medical,

477
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: all of those things have to be taken into account

478
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: of course.

479
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 3: And that's the thing is just like, and that's why

480
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 3: to take care of them kids though, man, because this

481
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 3: ain't because this ain't no getting this ain't no this

482
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 3: ain't no get out of jail free card, right, And

483
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 3: that's what all whenever I say child support is fraud,

484
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 3: I always say, man take care of them kids, though,

485
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: because this ain't no get out of JIL free card.

486
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: That's not what this is. If you come in here

487
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: looking at just to get out of responsibility to taking

488
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: care of your kids, this ain't it. This ain't that.

489
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: I'm advocating for parents to get equal opportunity with their

490
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 3: children and ensuring that the child support system itself is

491
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 3: following their own procedures.

492
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: All right, but where can people find out more information?

493
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 2: And maybe there's some attorneys out here who are like,

494
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: this is something I would be willing to take on

495
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: because I know I'm gonna get paid on the back end.

496
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, So everything can be found on child supporters, fraud

497
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: dot com or Instagram. As child support is fraud. Just

498
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 3: keep it real simple, that's YouTube, Instagram, that everything is

499
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: on child support is fraud.

500
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: And for somebody who feels like they're being taken advantage

501
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 2: of in a situation where it's not their child, or

502
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: they were never served or whatever the case is, what

503
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: would you tell them is the first step?

504
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 3: The very first thing that I did was I took

505
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 3: it back to the very beginning. I went and got

506
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 3: copies of the summons, the complaint, the proof of service,

507
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 3: the default, and the actual judgment in my case, because

508
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 3: that's where the remedy comes from. You cannot challenge jurisdiction

509
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 3: without having those documents in your hand to know what

510
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 3: they filed. Because even for me, I'm looking at my documents,

511
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: some of the documents are completely blank. But there's something

512
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: called prima foze to where you've heard of innocent and

513
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: it's until proven guilty. That's in the judicial process, but

514
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 3: child support is administrative. They work under prima foci. Prima

515
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 3: FOSSi says that the course is taking whatever is filed

516
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 3: as true and correct until you provide evidence to say

517
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: that it's not. So as long as you just letting

518
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: it go by and go by go by, they've taken

519
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 3: it as it's true and correct, then it's going to

520
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 3: stay the way it is.

521
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 2: All right, Well, thank you so much for this conversation

522
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: for people to understand your journey. Hopefully you know somebody

523
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: reaches out again that's at child support is fraud.

524
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: You can reach you out to line on TJ. Tuman.

525
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: There also his book How I Stopped Child Support Legally. Again,

526
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: he ain't saying don't take care of your kids. He's saying,

527
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 2: take care of.

528
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: Them kids, because this.

529
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 1: Was definitely something that.

530
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 2: Was a different type of situation, but could happen to anybody,

531
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 2: is the main thing, of course. Yeah, and I know

532
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: there's some nonprofits or whoever, if anybody has any any support,

533
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 2: even though you've come a long way on your own.

534
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 3: But its and it's crazy. It's crazy, like just even

535
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 3: to think about the Instagram page, like I released that

536
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 3: book Jane December twenty third, twenty and twenty two, in

537
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: twenty and twenty three, that I had four thousand followers

538
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 3: at that time when that book released. Right now it

539
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: sat one hundred and sixty some thousand, just because the

540
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: information and it is growing at a rapid rate to

541
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: where in addition to this, I'm an executive producer of

542
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: a movie that's gonna be on Peacock February second.

543
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: Oh really, what's that?

544
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: It's called Bosco. Oh okay, it's another one of my friends.

545
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: He got fifteen we got thirty five years for attempting

546
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 3: to possess marijuana. They gave thirty five years, and he

547
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 3: broke out of jail three times, He escaped three times,

548
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 3: he turned around, fired his attorney represented himself and got

549
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: his case overturned. After sixteen years, he got out nineteen

550
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 3: years early. They did a movie on his life and

551
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 3: it's coming out on Peacock on February second of this year.

552
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: Wow.

553
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: Well that's a special representing yourself too, Yeah, that's not

554
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: an easy thing to do. They always said, every time

555
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: I see video for this is somebody representing himself and

556
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: never goes well, so that's this.

557
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: Is absolutely amazing.

558
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's something about the water and Compton.

559
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: All right, but again, thank you so much for joining us.

560
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: It's a way up at Angela.

561
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeow