WEBVTT - Sleep and Work 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.719 We have the best jobs in the world. 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:04.800 Oh, I love being parents. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:06.560 Yeah, I mean I love being a parent too. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.760 No, I was thinking of making pretzels. Yeah, that's one 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.280 of your jobs acting. Yes, I love that too, But 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:18.400 I was referring to hosting a podcast about sleep. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.040 It doesn't feel like work. That's why I didn't think 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.280 of it. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.200 Point taken. You're right, it does not. 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.440 But hey, whatever kind of work anyone does, getting quality 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:28.640 sleep is important. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:29.480 Hi. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.960 I'm Katie Low's and I'm Adam Shapiro, and this is 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.040 Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia in 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:38.480 partnership with Mattress Firm. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.600 On this episode, we're taking the day off to explore 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:49.279 sleep and work. I have so many examples of not 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.320 getting enough sleep on some of the biggest work days 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:54.360 of my life, and I want to learn how to 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.160 fix that. Adam, do you remember when we were opening 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.920 on Broadway. I used to count the minutes that I 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.880 would sleep because Adam and I we made our Broadway 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.399 debuts together in a musical called Waitress. And it's very 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.040 important for your singing voice to get rest, but it's 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.160 really hard to get rest when your anxiety is through 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:13.160 the roof. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.160 Because you've got eight days to learn an entire musical 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.119 and you're breastfeeding at the same time, and. 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.000 You're opening on Broadway and you have a seven month old. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.399 So I remember distinctly one of those nights where you 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:27.400 have a huge workday. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.360 I know so many people listening can relate to this, 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:29.880 and you're. 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:34.000 Just staring at the clock knowing that you're not getting sleep. 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.680 I think our guests today are just like us in 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.639 that they don't think of what they do as work, 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.200 but they do know a lot about sleep. 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.040 Sean Greenwood is with us and he's the Grand Poobah 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.680 yes that's his actual title, and director of pr and 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.720 Communications for Ben and Jerry's. Who doesn't love ice cream? 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.720 And who doesn't love somebody that loves both ice cream 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:57.600 and sleep? 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.840 Also joining us doctor Christopher Winch. He has been a 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.280 leader in the field of sleep medicine for more than 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.840 twenty five years. A fully Board certified neurologist and double 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:12.959 Board certified sleep specialist, doctor Winter advises individuals and organizations 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.000 on sleep and personal performance. In fact, Chris works with 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.320 a lot of professional athletes who won his advice on 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.880 sleep so that they can be at their very best. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:24.480 Welcome to Chasing Sleep. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.359 Thank you Katie that it's great to be here. Very excited. 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:28.960 I've heard ice creams involved. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.120 We'll be addressing Maslow's needs of sleep and ice cream today, 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:34.880 so stay tuned, folks, tune in Katie. 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.040 How am I going to make this podcast any shorter 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:38.200 than six hours? 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.280 There has never been two topics that speak further to 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:44.040 my husband. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:49.120 That's it and his heart I am psyched about today. 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:51.360 Chris, let's start with you. 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.680 What does the research say about employees getting good sleep 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.120 and how that actually affects productivity? 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.040 It really runs the gamut. We certainly know that individuals 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:08.160 who are involved in shift work, particularly sort of rotating schedules, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.840 can really suffer some significant health consequences, both in the 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.720 short and long term. So if you work nine to 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.520 five and have a pleasant work environment, and you're consistent 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.040 with your eating and your schedule and getting some exercise, 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.200 it can be awesome and probably helpful. If one thing 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.560 COVID taught us is when you take schedule away from people, 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.040 it can be really problematic from sleep. So I think 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.440 that it really can run anywhere along the spectrum depending 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.080 on what your unique work situation. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.880 Is as an actor. Sometimes i have a four am 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.520 call time on a Monday, and I'm up at three, 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.440 and then as the week goes on, later and later 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.960 and later. I'm called into work on Fridays maybe at 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:48.840 four pm, and I worked till three am. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.920 The Hollywood schedule is insane. H It's not great, especially 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:52.520 for the crew. 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.440 Question is The Center for Disease Control says that thirty 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.080 five percent of Americans don't regularly get seven good hours 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.320 of sleep at night. I guess good is the key 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.480 word there. Because you can get seven hours, it doesn't 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.240 necessarily mean that it's been good sleep. 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.880 But what effect does that have on our workplaces? 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.000 Chris Well, the short term, you're more irritable during the day, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.760 you lack concentration, you make more mental errors, and we 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.080 know this from tons of research. Just a couple days 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.279 of limited sleep, you know, three nights of five hours, 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.839 and you make three times more mental errors than you 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.360 would without it. When the stats always like to throw 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.919 out the professional basketball teams after a short period of 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.159 limited sleep, you're making ten percent less free throws than 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:36.920 three pointers. 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:37.359 Wow. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.600 So if you look at any game that a team loses, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.400 add in ten percent more three pointers and free throws 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:45.520 and they probably win the game. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.040 Yeah, it's a different game, Sean. 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.760 Speaking of companies that have a great work environment, you 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.919 have worked for Ben and Jerry's for thirty five plus years. 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:55.760 Is this correct? 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.280 Yeah? Nineteen eighty eight was the beginning, so I've seen 0:04:59.320 --> 0:04:59.800 a few pints. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.240 How big was it in the beginning when you joined 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:02.880 there was. 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.800 Just under one hundred people and now we're in thirty 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:06.560 five countries. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:07.039 Wow. 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.880 When people think of Ben and Jerry's, we think of fun, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:15.640 We think of creative product names alone, deliciousness, just the vibe. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.720 Is the workplace environment actually as fun as it seems 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.400 from an outside perspective. 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.880 It's a great place to work. It certainly is a 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.159 unique business and definitely feel very fortunate right to have 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.440 happened on It's the other thing is getting in thirty 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.800 five years ago it wasn't as competitive as it is 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.440 today that you go all right today, I'd never get 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.400 hired here. They have standards. 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:39.600 Well. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.800 Speaking of taking care of your employees, have you done 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.600 anything to promote over the years health and wellness amongst 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:46.279 your employees? 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:47.119 Yeah? 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.080 Definitely. So we do have like a free health club workout. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.120 Jim Right next to me here. So you know, one 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:53.960 of the things that we do actually give people is 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.000 ice cream. So we get three free pints of ice 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:57.560 cream a day. 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.440 Yes, Adam, just quit being an he jumps. 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.159 See Adam, you think now like all right, benefits, start 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.320 weighing that out. But then we want to take care 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.120 of people also, so we do try to balance out 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.000 the three free pints a day and make sure people 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.560 are taking care of themselves and being healthy. And another 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.279 thing we do here for employee wellness is we have 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.080 a nap room here at our headquarters in South Burlington. 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.520 I'm sitting in there right now. I think you can 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.240 see that the bed here next to me and if 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:24.520 I can move this around is. 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.040 Like, oh nice, you're there. 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:27.680 I'm right there in the sleep room. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.239 So there's a little are those Ben and Jerry's sheets 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.480 and Ben and Jerry's comforter a. 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.200 That's a Ben and Jerry's blanket that's on the top there. 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.880 It looks so cozy, So, Chris, this is big for me. 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.520 According to a twenty twenty survey by career firm Zippya, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.599 thirty three percent of workers admit to napping while working 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.240 from home. That's a third with so many people that 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.400 are working from home at least part of the time, 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.040 what do you think is going on. Do you think 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.880 maybe that companies should be worried about occasion naps or 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:01.760 is it a good thing. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.960 I think that in the past, napping was viewed as 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:09.200 being universally weak. A decade ago, we built a place 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.360 for Pittsburgh Pirates players to sleep, and I remember their 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.520 one requirement was they didn't want to call it a 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.520 napping or a sleep room because they said that sounded lazy. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.280 So they were taking steps. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.440 To provide a place for their players to get a 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.720 little sleep, but they ended up calling it the regeneration room, 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.960 which I always thought was great. My kid want Ime, asked, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:29.840 what's going on in the regeneration room. I said, well, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:31.880 if a player gets his arm ripped off sliding into 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.200 second base, the scientists in there can regenerate an arm. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:39.440 And he believed that for years, which was great, good, perfect. 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.360 But I think that more forward thinking employees or employers 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.000 are looking at napping and saying, look, taking a fifteen 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:51.440 minute nap to radically improve your performance in the second 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.200 half of the day, that's an easy investment. And I'm 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.280 going to tell you, there's nothing better than a fifteen 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.960 minute little nap or you close your eyes in terms 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:02.920 of the way you feel in the second half the day. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.160 So rather than getting this sort of subpar four hours 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.520 later in the day, if you want to lay down 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.160 and close your eyes because like you said, you're a parent, 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.480 you got a newborn at home, or there's something else 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.200 going on. I don't have a problem with that at all. 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.480 And I think when you look at sports teams, they've 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.360 really embraced that. And I think a lot of forward 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.680 thinking companies are installing nap pods and places where their 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.000 employees can sleep during the day. So, like Sean, you 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.320 build a nap room, even if nobody uses it, you're 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.440 sending a message out to the employees that you've got 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.320 work to do, but your sleep is really important, and 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.160 we're going to support that in any way we can. 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.400 And it's nice to be able to offer it, right, 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.840 And so we have this here at our headquarters for people, 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:45.680 and I think it's exactly what Chris was saying, Like 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.079 we've got folks who are new parents that all of 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.960 a sudden have a newborn and that they're coming in 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.200 and they have that look, right that's frazz old and 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:53.920 hair is kind of messed up. And there, you know, 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.760 it looks like they watch the Red Sox and Yankees 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.640 play till the fourteenth inning and they and you talk 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.199 to them, Yeah, baby was up. I didn't get much sleep, tonner. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.760 And so the idea of going whatever the reason is 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.040 here to be able to have a spot set up 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.720 for people to just say, go get there, have some rest, 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.120 get back on your game, because you can tell right this, 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.280 like what Chris is saying, it's not rocket science, Like 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.800 you know, when people are not at their best, right right, 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:20.720 that's a very easy thing to see when someone's like, 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.400 I didn't sleep well and you go, yeah, you're coming 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:24.160 across that way. 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.520 Do you notice people feeling better if they've hit the 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.920 nap room. Can you speak to any of the things 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.160 Chris is speaking about in terms of your workplace. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.480 When you think of efficiencies, like for our manufacturing facilities, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.000 they are measuring constantly. They know when our mistakes made. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.199 That then leads to downtime, that leads to inefficiencies. Right then, 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.560 I think another piece that is interesting. Right, we run 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.480 our manufacturing facilities here twenty four hours a day. Who's 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.280 going to last for which shift, And what if you 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:53.960 get on the wrong shift. What if you get on 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.360 the shift that's not where your strength is. All of 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.560 a sudden you're struggling to make it through the whole, 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.160 whether it's day or night. What if somebody gets hurt. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.720 We are certainly measuring everything that we can, right the 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.839 saying you measure what you treasure. When it comes to 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.520 business operations, you've got to do that, whether you're trying 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.320 to cut down on ways, make less mistakes, protect your people. 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.360 So I think it is really important stuff and to 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.880 be able to apply that for all of us makes sense. 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:22.120 Sean mentioned workplace safety being a concern if employees don't 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:22.880 get good sleep. 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.400 Is that true, Oh, one hundred percent. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:30.040 It's not only workplace safety means so many more mistakes accidents. 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.840 There's so many high profile Three Mile Island, the Exxon Valde's, 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.120 and when you go back and read the reports of 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:42.240 these accidents, there's always sleep deprivation involved and really really 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.480 bad decision making that seemed great at the time. I mean, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.800 this is a very, very difficult thing to get around. 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.240 And even though it's not a workplace accident, I'm sure 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.440 Sean's very aware of the fact that individuals who are 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.480 not sleeping well are less healthy. Then you start looking 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.439 at the long term effects life shortening. And I don't 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.520 think that's a pretty radical statement, right. It's considered a 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.160 class to a carcinogen, particularly with breast cancer and women 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.000 and prostate cancer and men. So they're missing more work, 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.240 they're more sick, they're costing insurance is more like the 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.240 health consequences. Just keep on giving when it comes to 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.720 short changing your sleep. And believe me, I see plenty 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:22.840 of people who say, look as long as I get five, 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.959 I'm good. And these are people that are good until 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.440 they die at fifty five. Everybody's standing around the funeral 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.440 reception and can't figure out, Man, he was so active 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.600 and he did triathlons and he was just so healthy. Yes, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.520 but he was rotting on the inside because he was 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.320 always limiting the amount of sleep that he needs to get. 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.199 So it's a devastating process, but it's a slow one. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.640 It's like rust. So you know, these smart gm the 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.840 smart coaches, the smart CEOs always going to invest in 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.040 sleep because they're always going to get that money back. 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:57.120 And then some definitely it's an investment in your people 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.480 and come on, It's like, what's more important than that? 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.800 So Sean, tell me a little more about the nap 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.280 room there of Ben and Jerry's. Do the employees there 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.680 ever worry about whether or not they should use it? 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:09.160 Do you have any rules in place? 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:09.720 Yeah? 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:11.880 Right, because I think people get concerned going, we can't 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.760 do this, And I think what we feel like is 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.400 to trust your people. We're not watching the clock for them. 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.920 We trust our employees that they're getting their stuff done, 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.880 and when they say, hey, I need to go recharge, 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.240 this is their own time, and then we trust that judgment. 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.520 So I think, you know, the only rule really is 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.040 basically first come, first served. So when once people get 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:32.560 to the nap room, they close it up, put the 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.080 sign out saying I'm in here using it. We try 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:36.920 to ask people limits about a half an hour. 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.199 Yeah, the naps. The naps a snack, not a meal. Yeah, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.319 so yeah, thirty minutes. That's a great limit. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.559 I think that feels like that's the sweet spot for us, 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.400 and so we try to encourage fans of napping at 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.560 work who are working for us to say, get in 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.040 here and find your spot when you need to, just 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.440 one at a time. That's the rule. Only one nap, bring. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:55.520 One never done. 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:56.800 Oh that's good. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.319 This has been a great conversation and we're going to 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.760 pick it up soon more Chasing Sleep in a moment. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.000 Welcome back to Chasing Sleep. We're talking about sleep and 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.480 work with our guests Sean Greenwood from Ben and Jerry's 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.040 and sleep specialist doctor Chris Winter. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:19.400 When you get hired. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.200 As a sleep coach, is that what you would call 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:22.720 yourself when you were working with athletes? 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.360 That's sort of offending every coach that I've ever worked with, 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.240 because God knows, you don't mean like your pick and 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:29.160 roll was terrible. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.599 The players aren't calling you coach in the hallways of that. 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:33.680 Let me take over this practice here real quick. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.520 When you get hired for something like that, let's say, 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.760 with the professional athletes, what is it that you typically 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.560 do for them to get started with fixing their sleep schedule. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.480 The whole reason I started work with athletes is completely accidental. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.800 I was looking at it as a research project, and 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.720 one day in two thousand and seven, the San Francisco 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.880 Giants called and they said, we have a lot of 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:53.880 trouble with our travel and our scheduling. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:54.560 Can you help us. 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.600 I'm like, sure, but understand what you're getting. I have 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.680 no experience doing this at all. We started working together 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.560 and they won three World Series and span five years. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.920 And if you look in that first World Series, just by. 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.880 Being smart about the way we traveled them during their 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.600 I think that was against the Texas Rangers, if I recall, 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.760 they annihilated them because they really paid attention. They had 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.960 their manager, Bocie was really into this kind of stuff. 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:22.960 First thing is there's sort of a micro and a 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.400 macro thing happening. The micro is every player, just like 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.520 every human on this earth, has got a sleep story 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.240 to tell. You've got any sleep problem you can imagine, 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.160 I mean feeling like you get nervous before you pitch 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.080 and just feeling like you don't sleep well. 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.840 So there's all kinds of things. So that's the micro. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:40.560 The macro is, how is. 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:45.320 The team sort of scheduling itself as they travel. The 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.640 athletic trainers and the strength and conditioning coaches, and they're 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.640 there hours before the players get there and hours after. 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.760 So the organization is trying to figure out how can 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.800 we support the sleep of our entire move towards a 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.160 World series ring and so it's really just about culture. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.240 Sure, Chris, can I just throw in this? Could you 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.040 not work with the New York Giants? 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.840 Just throwing that out there, Okay, I do not work 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:12.480 for the New York Giants at this time. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.240 Okay, good, let's just leave it that way. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.040 That's a podcast episode right there. So picking the time 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.280 when we're most able to be productive as an actor, 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.680 as an ice cream manufacturer, as an athlete, as a 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.560 school teacher, whatever you do is everything. 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:28.240 That's so interesting. 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.320 Whenever I get a call back, whenever I have like 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.760 a chemistry read for a big job that I'm up 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.840 for and it's like that's going to be at six pm, I'm. 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.640 Like, no, you know. 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.360 And whenever they're like your audition is at eleven thirty 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.560 or like, you know, ten thirty am, I'm like, oh, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.120 I'm going to be peak. I'm going to be like 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.360 have up and all my cylinders firing and just really 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:49.040 in the zone. 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:49.560 Yeah. 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.640 Famous scientists had this great quotation. 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.360 It was something like, for everything we do, our bodies 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:56.600 have a peak and a troth. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.960 So there is a perfect time for Katie to read 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:00.360 for the. 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.320 Part John, are you a morning person or night person? 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.840 Yeah, I'm a morning guy, but I will you know, 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.880 I still go I hate sat in front of Chris, 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:08.360 but I'm one of those guys like, oh I got 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.200 five I'll manage tomorrow. 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:10.440 You know. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.840 It'll be like twelve thirty at night when stuff is 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.040 winding down, and then five thirty six, I'm up and going. Right, 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.560 it's rusting from the inside. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.880 Wait, it's okay, so you're a morning person, but your 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.000 lax on, like, whoops, I only got five hours of sleep. 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.760 Do you notice yourself how important that good sleep is 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:30.760 before you have a big meeting or have to make 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:31.800 important decisions. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.480 Yeah, I think. I mean, i'd say for the company, 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.120 we definitely have that feeling like people seem to be 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.440 so much more creative when they're rested, and when you're 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.160 trying to be innovative around that and people are not rested. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.000 I think it's very much. That's pretty clear. And then personally, 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.040 I think feel the same way. And for me, a 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.040 lot of times, it feels like it's not that it 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.280 wasn't trying to get good sleep. It might be like 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.240 you didn't make it all the way through. It feels 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.960 like that was interrupted. It just wasn't as effective, right, 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.600 as being able to put your head down and be 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:02.920 done all in a run. 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.879 Let's talk about sleep schedules. How important, Chris is a 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.399 schedule for sleeping? How do you kind of go about 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:10.240 making one? 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.760 I think it's important because a brain loves a schedule. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.960 So I'm a neurologist. That's sort of my background is 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.160 I'm a brain doctor. And when you think about the body, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.000 everything the body does, making red blood cells, digesting something, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.040 eating a pretzel, I mean, everything that's happening in your 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:32.080 body is scheduled. There's nothing accidental about anything. All these 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.520 things are happening kind of behind the scenes. But sleep, 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:37.520 when you went to bed and when you woke up 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.760 is a little window we get into our circadian rhythm. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.040 And so one of the things that we can do 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.680 to really regulate that rhythm is to sleep on a schedule, 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:49.040 eat on a schedule. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:50.280 There was a great study. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:51.679 Where I think they gave somebody a candy bar, but 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.800 we could substitute a pint of ice cream chubby Hobby, 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:55.800 and if you gave it to the same person at 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.000 the same time every day, versus we just give it 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.160 to them at random time time. There's a massive metabolic 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.800 consequence for the random pint eaters that you don't see 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:07.959 in the people who eat their pint every day at 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.359