1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: We have the best jobs in the world. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 2: Oh, I love being parents. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I love being a parent too. 4 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 3: No, I was thinking of making pretzels. Yeah, that's one 5 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 3: of your jobs acting. Yes, I love that too, But 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 3: I was referring to hosting a podcast about sleep. 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like work. That's why I didn't think 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 2: of it. 9 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: Point taken. You're right, it does not. 10 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 3: But hey, whatever kind of work anyone does, getting quality 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 3: sleep is important. 12 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 2: Hi. 13 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 4: I'm Katie Low's and I'm Adam Shapiro, and this is 14 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 4: Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia in 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 4: partnership with Mattress Firm. 16 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 3: On this episode, we're taking the day off to explore 17 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:49,279 Speaker 3: sleep and work. I have so many examples of not 18 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: getting enough sleep on some of the biggest work days 19 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 3: of my life, and I want to learn how to 20 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 3: fix that. Adam, do you remember when we were opening 21 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 3: on Broadway. I used to count the minutes that I 22 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 3: would sleep because Adam and I we made our Broadway 23 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 3: debuts together in a musical called Waitress. And it's very 24 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 3: important for your singing voice to get rest, but it's 25 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: really hard to get rest when your anxiety is through 26 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: the roof. 27 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 4: Because you've got eight days to learn an entire musical 28 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 4: and you're breastfeeding at the same time, and. 29 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 3: You're opening on Broadway and you have a seven month old. 30 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 3: So I remember distinctly one of those nights where you 31 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 3: have a huge workday. 32 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: I know so many people listening can relate to this, 33 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: and you're. 34 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: Just staring at the clock knowing that you're not getting sleep. 35 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 4: I think our guests today are just like us in 36 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,639 Speaker 4: that they don't think of what they do as work, 37 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 4: but they do know a lot about sleep. 38 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 3: Sean Greenwood is with us and he's the Grand Poobah 39 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: yes that's his actual title, and director of pr and 40 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 3: Communications for Ben and Jerry's. Who doesn't love ice cream? 41 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 3: And who doesn't love somebody that loves both ice cream 42 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 3: and sleep? 43 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 4: Also joining us doctor Christopher Winch. He has been a 44 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 4: leader in the field of sleep medicine for more than 45 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 4: twenty five years. A fully Board certified neurologist and double 46 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 4: Board certified sleep specialist, doctor Winter advises individuals and organizations 47 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: on sleep and personal performance. In fact, Chris works with 48 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 4: a lot of professional athletes who won his advice on 49 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 4: sleep so that they can be at their very best. 50 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: Welcome to Chasing Sleep. 51 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 5: Thank you Katie that it's great to be here. Very excited. 52 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 5: I've heard ice creams involved. 53 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 6: We'll be addressing Maslow's needs of sleep and ice cream today, 54 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 6: so stay tuned, folks, tune in Katie. 55 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 4: How am I going to make this podcast any shorter 56 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 4: than six hours? 57 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 3: There has never been two topics that speak further to 58 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: my husband. 59 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: That's it and his heart I am psyched about today. 60 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: Chris, let's start with you. 61 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: What does the research say about employees getting good sleep 62 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 3: and how that actually affects productivity? 63 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 5: It really runs the gamut. We certainly know that individuals 64 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 5: who are involved in shift work, particularly sort of rotating schedules, 65 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 5: can really suffer some significant health consequences, both in the 66 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 5: short and long term. So if you work nine to 67 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 5: five and have a pleasant work environment, and you're consistent 68 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 5: with your eating and your schedule and getting some exercise, 69 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 5: it can be awesome and probably helpful. If one thing 70 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 5: COVID taught us is when you take schedule away from people, 71 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 5: it can be really problematic from sleep. So I think 72 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 5: that it really can run anywhere along the spectrum depending 73 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 5: on what your unique work situation. 74 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: Is as an actor. 75 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 3: Sometimes i have a four am call time on a Monday, 76 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: and I'm up at three, and then as the week 77 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: goes on, later and later and later. I'm called into 78 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 3: work on Fridays maybe at four pm, and I worked 79 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 3: till three am. 80 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: The Hollywood schedule is insane. H It's not great, especially 81 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: for the crew. 82 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 4: Question is The Center for Disease Control says that thirty 83 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: five percent of Americans don't regularly get seven good hours 84 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 4: of sleep at night. I guess good is the keyword there. 85 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 4: Because you can get seven hours, it doesn't necessarily mean 86 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 4: that it's been good sleep. 87 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: But what effect does that have on our workplaces? 88 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 5: Chris Well, the short term, you're more irritable during the day, 89 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 5: you lack concentration, you make more mental errors, and we 90 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 5: know this from tons of research. Just a couple days 91 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 5: of limited sleep, you know, three nights of five hours, 92 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 5: and you make three times more mental errors than you 93 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 5: would without it. When the stats always like to throw 94 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 5: out the professional basketball teams after a short period of 95 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 5: limited sleep, you're making ten percent less free throws than 96 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 5: three pointers. 97 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 2: Wow. 98 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 5: So if you look at any game that a team loses, 99 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 5: add in ten percent more three pointers and free throws 100 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 5: and they probably win the game. 101 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a different game, Sean. 102 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: Speaking of companies that have a great work environment, you 103 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 3: have worked for Ben and Jerry's for thirty five plus years. 104 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: Is this correct? 105 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 6: Yeah? Nineteen eighty eight was the beginning, so I've seen 106 00:04:59,320 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 6: a few pints. 107 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: How big was it in the beginning when you joined 108 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: there was. 109 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 6: Just under one hundred people and now we're in thirty 110 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 6: five countries. 111 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 2: Wow. 112 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 3: When people think of Ben and Jerry's, we think of fun, 113 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: We think of creative product names alone, deliciousness, just the vibe. 114 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 3: Is the workplace environment actually as fun as it seems 115 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 3: from an outside perspective. 116 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 6: It's a great place to work. It certainly is a 117 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 6: unique business and definitely feel very fortunate right to have 118 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 6: happened on It's the other thing is getting in thirty 119 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 6: five years ago it wasn't as competitive as it is 120 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 6: today that you go all right today, I'd never get 121 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 6: hired here. They have standards. 122 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 5: Well. 123 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 4: Speaking of taking care of your employees, have you done 124 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 4: anything to promote over the years health and wellness amongst 125 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 4: your employees? 126 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 6: Yeah? Definitely. So we do have like a free health 127 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 6: club workout. Jim Right next to me here. So you know, 128 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 6: one of the things that we do actually give people 129 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 6: is ice cream. So we get three free pints of 130 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 6: ice cream a day. 131 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: Yes, Adam, just quit being an he jumps. 132 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 6: See Adam, you think now like all right, benefits, start 133 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 6: weighing that out. But then we want to take care 134 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 6: of people also, so we do try to balance out 135 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 6: the three free pints a day and make sure people 136 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 6: are taking care of themselves and being healthy. And another 137 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 6: thing we do here for employee wellness is we have 138 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 6: a nap room here at our headquarters in South Burlington. 139 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 6: I'm sitting in there right now. I think you can 140 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 6: see that the bed here next to me and if 141 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 6: I can move this around is. 142 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: Like, oh nice, you're there. 143 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 6: I'm right there in the sleep room. 144 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 3: So there's a little are those Ben and Jerry's sheets 145 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 3: and Ben and Jerry's comforter a. 146 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 6: That's a Ben and Jerry's blanket that's on the top there. 147 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: It looks so cozy, So, Chris, this is big for me. 148 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: According to a twenty twenty survey by career firm Zippya, 149 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 3: thirty three percent of workers admit to napping while working 150 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 3: from home. That's a third with so many people that 151 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: are working from home at least part of the time, 152 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 3: what do you think is going on. Do you think 153 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 3: maybe that companies should be worried about occasion naps or 154 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: is it a good thing. 155 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 5: I think that in the past, napping was viewed as 156 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 5: being universally weak. A decade ago, we built a place 157 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 5: for Pittsburgh Pirates players to sleep, and I remember their 158 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 5: one requirement was they didn't want to call it a 159 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 5: napping or a sleep room because they said that sounded lazy. 160 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 7: So they were taking steps. 161 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 5: To provide a place for their players to get a 162 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 5: little sleep, but they ended up calling it the regeneration room, 163 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 5: which I always thought was great. My kid Wanime, asked, 164 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 5: what's going on in the regeneration room. I said, well, 165 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 5: if a player gets his arm ripped off sliding into 166 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 5: second base, the scientists in there can regenerate an arm. 167 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 5: And he believed that for years, which was great, good, perfect. 168 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 5: But I think that more forward thinking employees or employers 169 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 5: are looking at napping and saying, look, taking a fifteen 170 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 5: minute nap to radically improve your performance in the second 171 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 5: half of the day, that's an easy investment. And I'm 172 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 5: going to tell you, there's nothing better than a fifteen 173 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 5: minute little nap or you close your eyes in terms 174 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 5: of the way you feel in the second half the day. 175 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 5: So rather than getting this sort of subpar four hours 176 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 5: later in the day, if you want to lay down 177 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 5: and close your eyes because like you said, you're a parent, 178 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 5: you got a newborn at home, or there's something else 179 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 5: going on. I don't have a problem with that at all. 180 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 5: And I think when you look at sports teams, they've 181 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 5: really embraced that. And I think a lot of forward 182 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 5: thinking companies are installing nap pods and places where their 183 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 5: employees can sleep during the day. So, like Sean, you 184 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 5: build a nap room, even if nobody uses it, you're 185 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 5: sending a message out to the employees that you've got 186 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 5: work to do, but your sleep is really important, and 187 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 5: we're going to support that in any way we can. 188 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 6: And it's nice to be able to offer it, right, 189 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 6: And so we have this here at our headquarters for people, 190 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 6: and I think it's exactly what Chris was saying, Like 191 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 6: we've got folks who are new parents that all of 192 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 6: a sudden have a newborn and that they're coming in 193 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 6: and they have that look, right that's frazz old and 194 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 6: hair is kind of messed up. And there, you know, 195 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 6: it looks like they watch the Red Sox and Yankees 196 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 6: play till the fourteenth inning and they and you talk 197 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 6: to them, Yeah, baby was up. I didn't get much sleep, tonner. 198 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 6: And so the idea of going whatever the reason is 199 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 6: here to be able to have a spot set up 200 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 6: for people to just say, go get there, have some rest, 201 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 6: get back on your game, because you can tell right this, 202 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 6: like what Chris is saying, it's not rocket science, Like 203 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 6: you know, when people are not at their best, right right, 204 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 6: that's a very easy thing to see when someone's like, 205 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 6: I didn't sleep well and you go, yeah, you're coming 206 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 6: across that way. 207 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 3: Do you notice people feeling better if they've hit the 208 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 3: nap room. Can you speak to any of the things 209 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: Chris is speaking about in terms of your workplace. 210 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 6: When you think of efficiencies, like for our manufacturing facilities, 211 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 6: they are measuring constantly. They know when our mistakes made. 212 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 6: That then leads to downtime, that leads to inefficiencies. Right then, 213 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 6: I think another piece that's interesting, Right, we run our 214 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 6: manufacturing facilities here twenty four hours a day. Who's going 215 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 6: to last for which shift, And what if you get 216 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 6: on the wrong shift. What if you get on the 217 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 6: shift that's not where your strength is. All of a 218 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 6: sudden you're struggling to make it through the whole, whether 219 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 6: it's day or night. What if somebody gets hurt. We 220 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 6: are certainly measuring everything that we can, right the saying 221 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 6: you measure what you treasure. When it comes to business operations, 222 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 6: you've got to do that, whether you're trying to cut 223 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 6: down on ways, make less mistakes, protect your people. So 224 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 6: I think it is really important stuff and to be 225 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 6: able to apply that for all of us makes sense. 226 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: Sean mentioned workplace safety being a concern if employees don't 227 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 3: get good sleep. 228 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 7: Is that true, Oh, one hundred percent. 229 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 5: It's not only workplace safety means so many more mistakes accidents. 230 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 5: There's so many high profile Three Mile Island, the Exxon Valde's, 231 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 5: and when you go back and read the reports of 232 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 5: these accidents, there's always sleep deprivation involved and really really 233 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 5: bad decision making that seemed great at the time. I mean, 234 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 5: this is a very, very difficult thing to get around. 235 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 5: And even though it's not a workplace accident, I'm sure 236 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 5: Sean's very aware of the fact that individuals who are 237 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 5: not sleeping well are less healthy. Then you start looking 238 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 5: at the long term effects life shortening. And I don't 239 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 5: think that's a pretty radical statement, right. It's considered a 240 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 5: class to a carcinogen, particularly with breast cancer and women 241 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 5: and prostate cancer and men. So they're missing more work, 242 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 5: they're more sick, they're costing insurance is more like the 243 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 5: health consequences. Just keep on giving when it comes to 244 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 5: short changing your sleep. And believe me, I see plenty 245 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 5: of people who say, look as long as I get five, 246 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 5: I'm good. And these are people that are good until 247 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 5: they die at fifty five. Everybody's standing around the funeral 248 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 5: reception and can't figure out, Man, he was so active 249 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 5: and he did triathlons and he was just so healthy. Yes, 250 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 5: but he was rotting on the inside because he was 251 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 5: always limiting the amount of sleep that he needs to get. 252 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 5: So it's a devastating process, but it's a slow one. 253 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 5: It's like rust. So you know, these smart gm the 254 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 5: smart coaches, the smart CEOs always going to invest in 255 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 5: sleep because they're always going to get that money back. 256 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 3: And then some definitely it's an investment in your people 257 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 3: and come on, It's like, what's more important than that? 258 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: So Sean, tell me a little more about the nap 259 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 3: room there of Ben and Jerry's. Do the employees there 260 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 3: ever worry about whether or not they should use it? 261 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: Do you have any rules in place? 262 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 6: Yeah? Right, because I think people get concerned going, we 263 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 6: can't do this, And I think what we feel like 264 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 6: is to trust your people. We're not watching the clock 265 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 6: for them. We trust our employees that they're getting their 266 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 6: stuff done, and when they say, hey, I need to 267 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 6: go recharge, this is their own time, and then we 268 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 6: trust that judgment. So I think, you know, the only 269 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 6: rule really is basically first come, first served. So when 270 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 6: once people get to the nap room, they close it up, 271 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 6: put the sign out saying I'm in here using it. 272 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 6: We try to ask people limits about a half an hour. 273 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 5: Yeah, the naps. The naps a snack, not a meal. Yeah, 274 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 5: so yeah, thirty minutes. That's a great limit. 275 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 6: I think that feels like that's the sweet spot for us, 276 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 6: and so we try to encourage fans of napping at 277 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 6: work who are working for us to say, get in 278 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 6: here and find your spot when you need to, just 279 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 6: one at a time. That's the rule. Only one nap, bring. 280 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: One never done. 281 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: Oh that's good. 282 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 4: This has been a great conversation and we're going to 283 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 4: pick it up soon more Chasing Sleep in a moment. 284 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Chasing Sleep. We're talking about sleep and 285 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: work with our guests Sean Greenwood from Ben and Jerry's 286 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: and sleep specialist doctor Chris Winter. 287 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 2: When you get. 288 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: Hired as a sleep coach, is that what you would 289 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 4: call yourself when you were working with athletes? 290 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 5: That's sort of offending every coach that I've ever worked with, 291 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 5: because God knows, you don't mean like your pick and 292 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 5: roll was terrible. 293 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,599 Speaker 2: The players aren't calling you coach in the hallways of that. 294 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 7: Let me take over this practice here real quick. 295 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 4: When you get hired for something like that, let's say, 296 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 4: with the professional athletes, what is it that you typically 297 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 4: do for them to get started with fixing their sleep schedule. 298 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 5: The whole reason I started work with athletes is completely accidental. 299 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 5: I was looking at it as a research project, and 300 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 5: one day in two thousand and seven, the San Francisco 301 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 5: Giants called and they said, we have a lot of 302 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 5: trouble with our travel and our scheduling. 303 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 7: Can you help us. 304 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 5: I'm like, sure, but understand what you're getting. I have 305 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 5: no experience doing this at all. We started working together 306 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 5: and they won three World Series and span of five years. 307 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 5: And if you look in that first World Series, just 308 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 5: by being smart about the way we traveled them during 309 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 5: their I think that was against the Texas Rangers, if 310 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 5: I recall, they annihilated them because they really paid attention. 311 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 5: They had their manager, Bochie was really into this kind 312 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 5: of stuff. First thing is there's sort of a micro 313 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 5: and a macro thing happening. The micro is every player, 314 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 5: just like every human on this earth, has got a 315 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 5: sleep story to tell. You've got any sleep problem you 316 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 5: can imagine, I mean feeling like you get nervous before 317 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 5: you pitch and just feeling like you don't sleep well. 318 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 7: So there's all kinds of things. So that's the micro. 319 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 5: The macro is, how is the team sort of scheduling 320 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 5: itself as they travel. The athletic trainers and the strength 321 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 5: and conditioning coaches, and they're there hours before the players 322 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 5: get there and hours after. So the organization is trying 323 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 5: to figure out how can we support the sleep of 324 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 5: our entire move towards a World series ring and so 325 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 5: it's really just about culture. 326 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 4: Sure, Chris, can I just throw in this? Could you 327 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 4: not work with the New York Giants? Just throwing that 328 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 4: out there. 329 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 7: Okay, I do not work for the New York Giants 330 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 7: at this time. 331 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: Okay, good, let's just leave it that way. 332 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 5: That's a podcast episode right there. So picking the time 333 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 5: when we're most able to be productive as an actor, 334 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 5: as an ice cream manufacturer, as an athlete, as a 335 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 5: school teacher, whatever you do is everything. 336 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: That's so interesting. 337 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 3: Whenever I get a call back, whenever I have like 338 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 3: a chemistry read for a big job that I'm up 339 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 3: for and it's like that's going to be at six pm, 340 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 3: I'm like. 341 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: No, you know. 342 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 3: And whenever they're like your audition is at eleven thirty 343 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: or like, you know, ten thirty am, I'm like, oh, 344 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 3: I'm going to be peak. I'm going to be like 345 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: have up and all my cylinders firing and just really 346 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 3: in the zone. 347 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 348 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 7: Famous scientists had this great quotation. 349 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 5: It was something like, for everything we do, our bodies 350 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 5: have a peak and a troth. 351 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 7: So there is a perfect time for Katie to read 352 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 7: for the. 353 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: Part John, are you a morning person or night person? 354 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm a morning guy, but I will you know, 355 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 6: I still go I hate sat in front of Chris, 356 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 6: but I'm one of those guys like, oh I got 357 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 6: five I'll manage tomorrow. 358 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: You know. 359 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 6: It'll be like twelve thirty at night when stuff is 360 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 6: winding down, and then five thirty six, I'm up and going. Right, 361 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 6: it's rusting from the inside. 362 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 3: Wait, it's okay, so you're a morning person, but your 363 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 3: lax on, like, whoops, I only got five hours of sleep. 364 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 3: Do you notice yourself how important that good sleep is 365 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 3: before you have a big meeting or have to make 366 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: important decisions. 367 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think. I mean, i'd say for the company, 368 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 6: we definitely have that feeling like people seem to be 369 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 6: so much more creative when they're rested, and when you're 370 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 6: trying to be innovative around that and people are not rested. 371 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 6: I think it's very much. That's pretty clear. And then personally, 372 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 6: I think feel the same way. And for me, a 373 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 6: lot of times, it feels like it's not that it 374 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 6: wasn't trying to get good sleep. It might be like 375 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 6: you didn't make it all the way through. It feels 376 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 6: like that was interrupted. It just wasn't as effective, right, 377 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 6: as being able to put your head down and be 378 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 6: done all in a run. 379 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 4: Let's talk about sleep schedules. How important, Chris is a 380 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 4: schedule for sleeping? How do you kind of go about 381 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 4: making one? 382 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 5: I think it's important because a brain loves a schedule. 383 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 5: So I'm a neurologist. That's sort of my background is 384 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 5: I'm a brain doctor. And when you think about the body, 385 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 5: everything the body does, making red blood cells, digesting something, 386 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 5: eating a pretzel, I mean, everything that's happening in your 387 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 5: body is scheduled. There's nothing accidental about anything. All these 388 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 5: things are happening kind of behind the scenes. But sleep, 389 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 5: when you went to bed and when you woke up 390 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 5: is a little window we get into our circadian rhythm. 391 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 5: And so one of the things that we can do 392 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 5: to really regulate that rhythm is to sleep on a schedule, 393 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 5: eat on a schedule. 394 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 7: There was a great study. 395 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 5: Where I think they gave somebody a candy bar, but 396 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 5: we could substitute a pint of ice cream chubby Hobby, 397 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 5: and if you gave it to the same person at 398 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 5: the same time every day, versus we just give it 399 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 5: to them at random time time. There's a massive metabolic 400 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 5: consequence for the random pint eaters that you don't see 401 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 5: in the people who eat their pint every day at 402 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 5: three o'clock in the afternoon, because the body knows it's coming. 403 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 5: So when we create a sleep schedule, we're automatically creating 404 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 5: a schedule of the same wake time every day, probably 405 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 5: influencing when we have breakfast. So that first part of 406 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 5: the day is really important for setting the tone for 407 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 5: the next twenty four hours. So I'm not here to 408 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 5: judge any schedule, but the less random we can make it, 409 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 5: the better in terms of when you look at all 410 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 5: the health consequences of things like shift work, it's not 411 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 5: the shift work, it's the randomness of the schedule. Okay, 412 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 5: it's three am. What are you doing for two weeks? 413 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 5: I'm on the line for another two weeks. I'm sound 414 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 5: asleep in bed. That's It's like being on a jet 415 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 5: that is literally flying around the world continuously. That's what 416 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 5: your body is experiencing. So as much as we can, 417 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 5: we want to eliminate that as much as possible. 418 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 4: I also wanted to talk about real quick about competitiveness 419 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 4: and motivation. 420 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 2: How does sleep factor into that. 421 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 5: Sleep's huge when it comes to motivation, and in fact, 422 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 5: when you look at young people, that's a big tip off. 423 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 5: Your body needs sleep like it needs oxygen, food, and water. 424 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 5: So if it's not getting it, your body doesn't care 425 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 5: about your job, or your family, or your hobby or 426 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 5: your pretzel business, because all it really wants to do 427 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 5: is sleep. So once that's satisfied, it can now go 428 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 5: to that second tier of motivations. But we've got to 429 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 5: satisfy this primary need before we can move on to 430 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 5: do other things in our life. And that's good, that's survival. 431 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 3: If you're able to schedule your sleep and get on 432 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 3: a routine. Have you noticed that athletes and how their 433 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 3: competitive nature and how they can succeed. 434 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: Does that go up? 435 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 3: And does that translate for anyone who may be trying 436 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 3: to be more productive or may be trying to better 437 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 3: themselves at work. Get ahead at that promotion, get that gig. 438 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 5: Absolutely. I don't think there's any argument. That was a 439 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 5: big thing with the Phillies last year when they were 440 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 5: in the World Series, like should we stay over and 441 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 5: sleep or should we get out of town quickly and 442 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 5: get back to Philly, And really thinking about sleep as 443 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 5: a modifiable variable towards better performance than whatever we do. 444 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 5: I'm not a huge sports fan, but I like the 445 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 5: idea of let's fix the sleep in this unit, and 446 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 5: then we can look at all the statistics that are 447 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 5: being kept about them and see if they improved. 448 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 7: So it's like a big laboratory. 449 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 4: Oh, that's really interesting that to work with people who 450 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 4: are constantly and publicly. 451 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 7: Measured, absolutely measured. 452 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 5: Yes, we can easily show that if you're more of 453 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 5: a night out like you, you're the guy that I 454 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 5: want to come in in the eighth inning on that 455 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 5: West Coast game because it's actually two am. Oh, you're 456 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 5: the picture that I want because you're a night out. 457 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 5: Why would I want the morning person coming in? You've 458 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 5: already kind of gone to sleep in your brain. 459 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 2: I've never thought about that. 460 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 7: So those are the easy things to show. 461 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: Wow, this this is so fascinating. Can you talk Chris 462 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 3: before we go that. Have you noticed a big difference 463 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 3: with everyone working from home since COVID and for example, 464 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 3: a lot of people having their office in their bedroom. 465 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 3: Let's say, can you talk to. 466 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 5: This Yes, I think that is a real double edged 467 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 5: sword there for the individuals who are sleep deprived and 468 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 5: spending an hour and fifteen minutes commuting each way. It's 469 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 5: been a godsend to them, sure, because the commuting was 470 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 5: something that was an obstacle to getting the right amount 471 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 5: of sleep. The darker side is the lack of sort 472 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 5: of body movement and the ability to sleep whenever you 473 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 5: want to now, so now I don't have to be 474 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 5: in the office, I could just sleep in. I think 475 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 5: when you start to lose what we call our zeitgibbers 476 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 5: or time cues. When do you eat, Where do you eat, 477 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 5: Where are you getting sunlight from? All the things that 478 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 5: let you know you're in a different place and time 479 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 5: during the day. As you start to lose those, sleep 480 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 5: can become extremely deteriorative. 481 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 7: You can do it. 482 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 5: You just have to be smart about how you structure 483 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 5: your day in a way that's the healthiest. 484 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 4: Sean, Are you guys at Ben and Jerry's working from 485 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 4: home now more often or are you back in the 486 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 4: office more. 487 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 6: At the beginning of the pandemic we were full everyone at 488 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 6: home and over the last I think probably since a 489 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 6: year ago in November, so probably eighteen months or so 490 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 6: we've been office reopened, but still working in a hybrid model. 491 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: For you working from home. 492 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 4: Were you getting more sleep or did it sort of 493 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 4: infiltrate the work, infiltrate. 494 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: Your bedroom in your home, and all of a sudden 495 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 2: you're getting lesslie. 496 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think the latter, right. I think I've found like, 497 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 6: all of a sudden, you usually when you're at the office, 498 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 6: you would say, oh, it's hitting like five six o'clock, 499 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 6: I want to wind up and head home and have 500 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 6: dinner with the family. And at home, I was in 501 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 6: our attic, made my office space, and there'd be so 502 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 6: many nights where you just be sitting there, working away, 503 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 6: working away, working away, and all of a sudden, it's 504 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 6: seven pm, and you're like, there was just no sense 505 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 6: of time. I think all of a sudden, having work 506 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 6: at home full time, it was just really easy to 507 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 6: kind of keep that going. 508 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 4: Sean and Chris, thank you both so much for your 509 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 4: time and your expertise, and for talking to us about 510 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 4: ice cream and sleep, and for not working with the 511 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 4: New York Giants. 512 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 3: I have to say too, thank you both so much 513 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 3: for coming on Chasing Sleep today. Thank you for coming on. 514 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks for having me. 515 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I've never felt like I could use the 516 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 3: biggest bowl of ice cream and a nap. 517 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 6: I know. 518 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: I mean, how great did that sound? 519 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 5: Right? 520 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: Now? 521 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 4: I got to get to Vermont and visit that factory. 522 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 4: That's one thing. 523 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,239 Speaker 3: It's a productive workplace, which is my happy place, A 524 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 3: workplace environment that involves a gym in encouraging wellness, environment 525 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 3: with good sleep, a nap room. I've never felt more 526 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 3: supported in my trailer in my life. 527 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 2: Yes, and I don't judge you for it either. 528 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 3: You remember, in our last episode on sleep and creativity, 529 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 3: we learned that a short nap in the middle of 530 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 3: the day really helps with memory consolidation and can really 531 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 3: boost not only your creativity but your productivity. And it 532 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 3: sounds like more companies are waking up to that fact. 533 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 3: You know, everyone listening. I am not a sports fan. 534 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 3: I don't care about sports, but I found so many 535 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 3: of the things that Chris talked about. Even when talking 536 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 3: about sports, we're so easily comparable to a common job 537 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 3: that it all still applies. It's like whether you have 538 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 3: a big game or a big meeting, that sleep is 539 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 3: so important, Which brings me to my next point, which 540 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 3: is my friends who say. 541 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: Five hours a night is all I need. 542 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: It's not a good thing to say. Five hours is 543 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: all I need. Yeah. 544 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 4: In fact, you know, let's not listening to your body's 545 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 4: cues or to nature's keys to just be four five 546 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 4: hours a night. 547 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 3: And like Chris said, it's you might not see it 548 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 3: like a rust inside and the amount of sleep you 549 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 3: or wedding is affecting your decision making and your day 550 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 3: to day and your health. 551 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 4: I also felt inspired that fifteen minutes is enough. I 552 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 4: always think like I can't nap. I don't have an 553 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 4: hour and a half in the middle of the day 554 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 4: to just like shut it down, you know, But it 555 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 4: doesn't have to be an hour and a half. It 556 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 4: could be you could just pop into that Ben and 557 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 4: Jerry's nap room, go to bed fifteen minutes, and you 558 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 4: wake up refreshed. 559 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 3: How about that Ben and Jerry's nap room. I feel 560 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 3: like it was so cozy. The Ben and Jerry's blanket 561 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 3: is divine. 562 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 4: And I think whether you're talking about being at Ben 563 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 4: and Jerry's or working with big sports teams, all these 564 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 4: things apphy. 565 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, And if you're an employer and you have employees, 566 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 3: I kept thinking about Adam, like you with all your pretzel. 567 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: Employees driving around. 568 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 3: Making sure like, oh, we got rest like someone who 569 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 3: did a really hard shift the day before that might 570 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 3: have ended really late, really. 571 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: Shouldn't be doing the next morning. 572 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: And I just need to schedule all my auditions for 573 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: the morning. 574 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 4: I mean, you really should, you really should. I wonder 575 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 4: if there's a Broadway that does shows at eight am. 576 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: Oh, I used to love the matiname Ah. 577 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 2: You'd have seven tonys at this point. 578 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 3: Obviously, who knew work and sleep they really go together. 579 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 2: I did. 580 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 4: I've always known that. I've just always waited for my 581 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 4: bosses to catch up. 582 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: Oh, we have another good topic next week. 583 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 3: According to Nielsen IQ, Americans spent over a billion dollars 584 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: a year on melatonin alone. And that's just one of 585 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 3: the sleep supplements on the market. 586 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 2: Really, I don't even know what the other sleep supplements are. 587 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 3: Oh, there's like magnesium, which you can take in pill form. 588 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 3: There's also like cama meal tea, or there's tons of 589 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 3: supplemental things that people do and use in order to 590 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 3: get a better night's sleep. And we're talking about something 591 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 3: they call the holistic health triangle, which is actually nutrition, fitness, 592 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 3: and quality sleep. 593 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 2: Oof. I got one of those. 594 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 3: I can't wait for this episode and We would love 595 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 3: to know what you think of this episode, so please 596 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 3: give us a rating and review on your favorite podcast 597 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 3: app we take them to heart. 598 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 4: Or hit us up on our socials. I'm on Instagram 599 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 4: at Shabby. 600 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 3: Shaps and I'm at kat q Low's on the Ground. 601 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: And don't forget to follow or subscribe for future. 602 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 3: Episodes until next time. Hoping you're living your best while 603 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 3: sleeping your best. 604 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 4: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia 605 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 4: in partnership with Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Sosha. 606 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 3: This show was written and produced by sound up brands 607 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 3: Dave Beesing, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice. 608 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 4: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie Lows and Adam Shapiro. 609 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: That's Us. Thank you to our partners at Mattress Firm.