Speaker 1: Welcome to Mick Shots one on one. I'm the mid
Speaker 1: part of that Mick Shots Mickey Spagnola. Glad to be
Speaker 1: with you guys here on Dallas Cowboys dot com. And
Speaker 1: this past week I saw a very interesting presentation on
Speaker 1: the Black College Football Hall of Fame site and they
Speaker 1: had a great presentation on the impact of the historically
Speaker 1: black college and universities over the years on not only
Speaker 1: the impact of players, but the amount of players that
Speaker 1: they supplied to the National Football League. And going through
Speaker 1: their Hall of Fame, I found two guys that are
Speaker 1: joining us today to be able to talk about that
Speaker 1: presentation and their careers at HBCU schools. No better than
Speaker 1: my Mick SHOT's partner Everson Walls, who we haven't talked
Speaker 1: on screen for quite some time. Bags, I miss you, man,
Speaker 1: I miss you, and mission do your deal. And also
Speaker 1: former Cowboys Pro Bowl linebacker Thomas Hollywood Henderson. And these
Speaker 1: two guys are members of that Black College Football Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. Thomas, good to have you with us, Thank you, good,
Speaker 1: good to be seen specially now. It's good to just
Speaker 1: have somebody else to talk to you other than my wife.
Speaker 1: I'm probably driving her crazier. So good to have you
Speaker 1: guys here. And Everson, you were well aware of the
Speaker 1: presentation that the Black College Football Hall of Fame put
Speaker 1: on last week on the website. I thought it was
Speaker 1: awfully interesting, and you even had a partner, had had
Speaker 1: some stuff to say on your experience there and working
Speaker 1: with coach Rob and so I just thought we'd start
Speaker 1: off and you guys kind of tell the story of
Speaker 1: why you ended up at Grambling State and Thomas ended
Speaker 1: up at Langston. Uh. You know the HBCUs schools back then,
Speaker 1: and you know, if anybody's not familiar, if you go
Speaker 1: back into the sixties, um, and and through some of
Speaker 1: the seventies, Uh, there wasn't a lot of opportunities for
Speaker 1: black athletes to go uh to colleges and universities, other
Speaker 1: than maybe some that were in the North, but certainly
Speaker 1: not in the South. Uh. And Everson ended up going
Speaker 1: to Grambling State. I believe you got there sixties seven?
Speaker 1: Is that right? Was the seventies seven? Sorry, I probably
Speaker 1: would be dead by now that David, Yeah, it's seventy seven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was mine. I graduated from Berlin in high school
Speaker 1: and Richardson and I had to go to that black
Speaker 1: college experience after growing up in Richardson, h I think
Speaker 1: with what's going on now with the whole Black Lives
Speaker 1: Matter thing, I think it kind of just brings up
Speaker 1: a whole new relevance of what I went through and
Speaker 1: what most HBCU players went through. I'm sure Hollywood probably
Speaker 1: has even more strange stories being up in Oklahoma, but
Speaker 1: coming from Richardson, we were part of the suburbs here
Speaker 1: in Dallas, but the racism was still as under shaved
Speaker 1: as it was. It's still very prevalent in our lives
Speaker 1: at that time, and I think this is just extremely
Speaker 1: prevalent now with what's going on, uh in society. This,
Speaker 1: you know, this has put a whole new light to
Speaker 1: me on all HBCU athletes and why we ended up
Speaker 1: at HBCUs. You can, you know, talk about the way
Speaker 1: society was at that time and well and as you
Speaker 1: as you peeled back to fail, uh, you still having
Speaker 1: these same problems. So I think that's what's so universal
Speaker 1: about this. We're still having the same problems now that
Speaker 1: myself in Hollywood and Doug Williams and all those guys
Speaker 1: went through even back then, which is a sad part
Speaker 1: about it, but it also it lends to the fortitude
Speaker 1: and strength that we had to keep on pushing as
Speaker 1: HPCU athletes. Thomas, you ended up you were from Texas,
Speaker 1: and you ended up going, as ever soon pointed out
Speaker 1: into Oklahoma to Langston University. And I'm not sure I
Speaker 1: ever heard of Langston until I knew you went to college.
Speaker 1: I up in Austin, and I went to live with
Speaker 1: my grandmother my junior year, and because Oklahoma and Texas
Speaker 1: or border states, I couldn't play football my junior year
Speaker 1: if you moved to a state without your parents exactly.
Speaker 1: So I end up nineteen seventy one, finishing high school.
Speaker 1: Met Barry Switzer at Douglas High School. And see there
Speaker 1: was the Vietnam War, and being drafted was in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy one. I was one egg, Like that's six weeks
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. So I flunk geometry in Austin and had
Speaker 1: to go to summer school to finish high school. So
Speaker 1: colleges weren't looking at me. I'll tell you a quick story,
Speaker 1: which tall I don't can't remember which college it was,
Speaker 1: which Tall state? I think plane crash in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: he lost the whole football program. I write this long letter.
Speaker 1: I say, boy, now, if I could make a football team,
Speaker 1: I can that one, because ain't nobody left. They sent
Speaker 1: me a Dear Jo. They sent me a Dear John.
Speaker 1: Uh No, you know, and I go wow. So I
Speaker 1: really was a walk on at Lunston University nineteen seventy one,
Speaker 1: you know, as a history would have it. I get
Speaker 1: there on a Tuesday, the starting defensive end broke his
Speaker 1: ankle on Wednesday. I was starting at Kentucky State up
Speaker 1: in Kentucky that Saturday. So my career at Langston. But
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't even know what an HBCU was
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy one, but I knew there was a
Speaker 1: college up there called Langston and they had a football team.
Speaker 1: And I had made All City Honorable mention All States.
Speaker 1: So they let me walk on. And my life has
Speaker 1: been better because as I went to an HBCUUM. Barry
Speaker 1: Switzer always says he regrets not signing me. He was
Speaker 1: signed a boy named Rod Sholt instead. Um. But and
Speaker 1: actually my experience for the HBCU was I sawted at
Speaker 1: some point my junior year. I'm making all these all
Speaker 1: America teams and all this stuff, but the scouts weren't coming,
Speaker 1: and so I said, I'm gonna run truck. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I'm gonna run truck. So I end up.
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta tell you that I went to
Speaker 1: the Kansas Relays in nineteen seventy three and I won
Speaker 1: the Oklahoma Clegia Conference hundred yard dash and nine to six.
Speaker 1: And I go to Kansas and I don't remember the
Speaker 1: pouncing twins and some of these boys back in the day.
Speaker 1: The winning time was nine two Thomas Henders and came
Speaker 1: in dead last. Nine five pulled me. They pulled me
Speaker 1: a tenth of a second. What size were you when
Speaker 1: you were running bad two eighteen two seventeen sixty three.
Speaker 1: Huh the typical track athlete. I triple jumped. I long jumped,
Speaker 1: and um, I'd have thrown the javelins. They give me one.
Speaker 1: So track gate you some notoriety. Uh people noticed, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Gil Brandt and uh um texts and uh.
Speaker 1: The rams were really high on me. They were gonna
Speaker 1: take me the twenty fourth or twenty SECNT remember which
Speaker 1: which picked they had tank Younger scouted me, letting himself
Speaker 1: Grambling State. Yeah, and I, um, you know what I
Speaker 1: do at Lenkston because there would be so few, because
Speaker 1: it'd be one scout, one patent measure, you know, one
Speaker 1: starting line once finished, like one guy. And I run
Speaker 1: my butt off that first first one and I come
Speaker 1: up and he goes, I think someone wrong my watch.
Speaker 1: I said, what's wrong? What did you get? He's like,
Speaker 1: I got a full fall, but I think my watches broke.
Speaker 1: I said, well, I ain't run the move so all
Speaker 1: the time, Everson, Uh, your experience at Grambling when you
Speaker 1: first got there, what was your impression? You get coach
Speaker 1: rob Eddie Robinson as their head coach, and uh, how
Speaker 1: did that? What was your impression when you've got to
Speaker 1: Grambling State. I tell the story all the time. My
Speaker 1: mom drove me there. Everybody knows my mom. She was
Speaker 1: a beautiful lady, and she was pretty, you know at
Speaker 1: hip as they call it. You know, we're driving a
Speaker 1: Corvette to Gramley State University. So everyone at on campus
Speaker 1: when they first saw me and my mom and her car,
Speaker 1: they just thought we were rich, you know, which we
Speaker 1: surely were not growing up in Hamington Park. And so
Speaker 1: we ended up going there and it was really a
Speaker 1: desperate cause we were going there to see if I
Speaker 1: could sign on with this team. I had not been
Speaker 1: off of the scholarship. I had only been given an
Speaker 1: invitation to the spring football game. So if you haven't
Speaker 1: signed a player by the spring football game, most likely
Speaker 1: you're not gonna That player is not gonna get signed.
Speaker 1: So I was really going up there for hell, married
Speaker 1: my mom, you know, just pleading with coach Robinson, and
Speaker 1: we were able to get that last scholarship that was available.
Speaker 1: So as much as people think I walked on, I
Speaker 1: walked in, and I walked into coach Robb's office and
Speaker 1: basically begged him to give me an opportunity. And I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure someone had renagged on a scholarship because otherwise
Speaker 1: you just don't have scholarships like that laying around, especially
Speaker 1: at HBCUs at the time. And so I was able
Speaker 1: to get that last scholarship, and the opportunity came for
Speaker 1: me to really indoctrinate myself into the system. So I
Speaker 1: went to summer school. I was all in, you know,
Speaker 1: that was it. If I don't get that scholarship, I
Speaker 1: don't know what happens to me, because I needed to
Speaker 1: go to college at that time, things which were just
Speaker 1: pretty tough in my neighborhood, pretty tough in the city
Speaker 1: of Dallas. I had had a history with with the
Speaker 1: law at going through high school, so I did not
Speaker 1: want to revisit any of those issues when my mom
Speaker 1: was trying to use this opportunity for me to move
Speaker 1: on out of the situation I was in. By the
Speaker 1: grace of God, Coach Robinson was very amenable to understood
Speaker 1: what was going on, and typically Coach Robinson, he saw
Speaker 1: a family that needed help, He saw a mother that
Speaker 1: needed assistance with her son, and he was there to
Speaker 1: lend a hand. And I think he could see that
Speaker 1: immediately when we walked into the office. I think the
Speaker 1: desperation on our face was probably pretty pretty palpable because
Speaker 1: he was able to be very nice to us and
Speaker 1: and very of commandant. Was it comforting for you to
Speaker 1: go to an HBCU at that time in your life?
Speaker 1: To be yes, oh, dad, that's a good question, Fan,
Speaker 1: I truly needed that. My self esteem was pretty low,
Speaker 1: which brings out anger in most kids, and I was.
Speaker 1: I was an angry young man, even going through Grambling
Speaker 1: and of course playing for the cowboys as well. I
Speaker 1: had an issue with the people that didn't agree with me,
Speaker 1: and I needed the HBCU atmosphere to really give me
Speaker 1: a sense of self, to learn about my people, and
Speaker 1: to really have a lot of confidence in how I
Speaker 1: felt about myself as a person. And by the time
Speaker 1: I left Grammar State University, I think I was fully
Speaker 1: armored with all the twos that I need from a
Speaker 1: social standpoint and economically as well. Hollywood for you, so
Speaker 1: you said you started there in seventy one, and I
Speaker 1: pardoned for asking. But when you were in high school
Speaker 1: in Austin where the schools already integrated them, No, they
Speaker 1: integrated and I think seventy I had went to school,
Speaker 1: Junior High School and University of Texas, Little Junior High, Court, University,
Speaker 1: Junior High. We integrated it. In nineteen sixty six, Linkston
Speaker 1: didn't have scholarships. I told him my mother made a
Speaker 1: dollar an hour, and they said, were you you good
Speaker 1: for the pel grant? So I went to my HBCU
Speaker 1: four years on financial aid. Of course, you know, I
Speaker 1: never had to pay anything, but scholarships really came along later.
Speaker 1: I think for the black athlete, the pel grants U
Speaker 1: were a lifesaver for HBCUs because you didn't have to
Speaker 1: pay that back. And so being in All America. You know,
Speaker 1: I've made All Conference a sophomore year, made All America,
Speaker 1: my junior year, made four or five All Americas my
Speaker 1: senior year, and I knew guys on scholarship. But I
Speaker 1: was doing a lot better because I got access to
Speaker 1: some money, you know, I to spend the chase. Oh
Speaker 1: they look at They gave me a check one day
Speaker 1: they stuck it, stuck a checking through the little thing
Speaker 1: at at the student and it was thirteen hundred dollars
Speaker 1: and my name was on it. She put it through
Speaker 1: that I took it ran I cash that check. So
Speaker 1: the next semester I come up there and are you
Speaker 1: come in here? You're extealing this check. But but the
Speaker 1: experience with the fraternities and the brotherhood, the bands, the
Speaker 1: camarade with other guys, crazy people, your name, you know,
Speaker 1: you name people and the nickname Staywood him forever you know, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm oh man, I have to tell you all. One
Speaker 1: story at Langston when I sort of knew I was
Speaker 1: pretty good, but we had a thing called bulling the ring,
Speaker 1: and that means the player gets in the middle of
Speaker 1: list and put fifty guys around you in a circle,
Speaker 1: and the coach will call in number, you know, twelve, fifteen.
Speaker 1: So I was lightening people up, I mean jack and
Speaker 1: when they came out there running at me, and finally
Speaker 1: nobody would come. The coach would say fifteen, nobody would come, twenty,
Speaker 1: every everybody had a number that wouldn't come. So a
Speaker 1: lot of fun times um playing at length to university. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't change any part of my my college experience,
Speaker 1: the relationships, the friendships that are still going ongoing. I'm
Speaker 1: still friends with you know, all the guys I played
Speaker 1: with same here. So it's a it's a pretty it's
Speaker 1: a family affair when you go to an HBCU. And
Speaker 1: so people will find me on Facebook all the time
Speaker 1: and I don't know who the hell they are. Then
Speaker 1: they remind me of something. Go ahead, go ahead, fact
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. I was just gonna give everybody
Speaker 1: some historical reference to back. So Thomas and I are
Speaker 1: basically the same age. I started college in seventy one,
Speaker 1: so we were in high school at the same time.
Speaker 1: I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, I didn't
Speaker 1: know anything about segregation. I went to a high school
Speaker 1: of about, I don't know, four thousand and twenty five
Speaker 1: percent of the school was African American. So I just
Speaker 1: thought that that was life, right. And so I'll tell
Speaker 1: and I knew better, but I'm going to give you
Speaker 1: a story of how naive I was. I was working
Speaker 1: at the newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi, and this would have
Speaker 1: been roughly forty years ago, and we were doing these
Speaker 1: neat stories, going into these little towns and doing a
Speaker 1: story on an athlete from there along with the town's
Speaker 1: history and so. And I cannot remember the guy's name,
Speaker 1: but he was a defensive player in high school and
Speaker 1: handed up going to Michigan State be Doherty at that time,
Speaker 1: and Thomas might remember this. He was he was coming
Speaker 1: into the South in Mississippi and recruiting the black athletes
Speaker 1: because they couldn't go to the schools in state, you know, LSU, Alabama, Mississippi,
Speaker 1: Missississippi states not available to him, right, And so I'm
Speaker 1: doing the interview and this guy telling me in high
Speaker 1: school all the awards he got and how good he was,
Speaker 1: and dumb me goes, you mean to tell me you
Speaker 1: were that good. And so he's coming out of high
Speaker 1: school and about sixty seven sixty six, right, and I go,
Speaker 1: you were that good and like old miss and Mississippi
Speaker 1: State didn't offer you a scholarship. He looked at me
Speaker 1: and he goes, Son, he goes, where did you grow up?
Speaker 1: At about time? I wanted to just crawl into the
Speaker 1: ground to do what I had just done, He goes,
Speaker 1: Those opportunities for people like me weren't available at that time.
Speaker 1: And the truth because those schools really didn't integrate to
Speaker 1: late sixties early seventies for sure. You know, as you
Speaker 1: as you listen, as you listen to what Hollywood was
Speaker 1: talking about and his career at Langston, you still had
Speaker 1: different levels of HBCUs. You know, as you can tell
Speaker 1: from from what Hollywood was talking about, Langston didn't have
Speaker 1: many resources at all. As much as you've got Hollywood there,
Speaker 1: it's pretty I'm sure some other great athletes that were there.
Speaker 1: I was blessed enough to go to to really the
Speaker 1: the the the pinnacle of HBCUs, especially when it came
Speaker 1: to football. Grambling as much as we were known as
Speaker 1: this this rich institution at the time, Grambling's home home
Speaker 1: stadium only held three thousand people, and that that went
Speaker 1: on until until the Eddie Robinson Stadium was built, so
Speaker 1: we're talking about it maybe around two thousand. That went
Speaker 1: on until around two thousand. So if you're gonna play
Speaker 1: a game at Grambling, they don't even have the facilities
Speaker 1: there to where you can set up a televised game.
Speaker 1: So all of our games, and to me, by the
Speaker 1: grace of Guy, all of our games were on the road.
Speaker 1: We had eight road games a year, eight and every
Speaker 1: time we went on the road, we would play other
Speaker 1: teams in the biggest stadium in that state. So if
Speaker 1: we go to play Jackson State at all Corn, then
Speaker 1: we're gonna play where Old miss plays. We're gonna play
Speaker 1: in their stadium. If we're gonna go to Houston, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna play at Prairie View, or we're gonna gonna
Speaker 1: play a Texas Southern, We're gonna play in the Astrodome
Speaker 1: at the time. And so that's what really helped me
Speaker 1: in regards to my growth as a person, being able
Speaker 1: to travel to all these different places of the standards
Speaker 1: that Coach Robinson put upon us as we traveled and
Speaker 1: how we went to represent ourselves and our university suits
Speaker 1: and ties everywhere you go. Uh, don't be don't step
Speaker 1: out of line. You know we're representing Grambling. It was
Speaker 1: all about representing our institution. And when you're doing that
Speaker 1: eight times a year, as well as your homework and
Speaker 1: this vow that he made to our parents that he's
Speaker 1: gonna graduate, You're gonna graduate your sons. Uh. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a type of responsibility that I have never
Speaker 1: been had to adhere to ever in my life. Those
Speaker 1: kind of responsibilities, that kind of activity, and that kind
Speaker 1: of adhering to those kind of things were something new
Speaker 1: for me. And it really it forces you when you
Speaker 1: go to an HBCU. It forces you to grow up
Speaker 1: and be more responsible, not just to yourself but to
Speaker 1: your let's just be real, to your race into your school.
Speaker 1: When when you guys you your football schedule. Did you
Speaker 1: only play HBC schools or did you play some colleges
Speaker 1: that were already integrate It depended on I remember my
Speaker 1: rookie year. I was so mad I did not I
Speaker 1: made every trip. Uh. My freshman year couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: I made every trip except for when Doug Williams and
Speaker 1: the guys went to China and played Temple. They went
Speaker 1: and played Temple and they left me at home. Man,
Speaker 1: I was so hot, you know, because I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: a kid from Hamilton Park. I got a chance to
Speaker 1: go to China, and if I'm not mistaken it with
Speaker 1: two days to go, they made up their mind that
Speaker 1: I could not make the trip. So they probably gave
Speaker 1: my trip up to some professor or something that coach
Speaker 1: coach rob knew and probably a neighbor of coach Robinsons.
Speaker 1: But now I had to stay home and my girlfriend
Speaker 1: Severn go to you Hollywood? Did you only you were
Speaker 1: in AIA at that time? Was that right? Yeah? But
Speaker 1: we were. We were in the Oklahoma Collegiate Conference, so
Speaker 1: we we played Northeastern, Northwestern, we played Cameron, we played
Speaker 1: Central State, so we we played Panhandle and and uh
Speaker 1: so it was it was if if you were to
Speaker 1: rate our game in nineteen seventy one, seventy two, seventy three,
Speaker 1: we were like high school sixth a. We had a
Speaker 1: motley crew man. But I wouldn't I wouldn't trade any
Speaker 1: of that. Several guys, Gerard Williams, Kenneth Payne, played in
Speaker 1: the NFL that played with me. There were year ahead
Speaker 1: of me, and and I got to play against them.
Speaker 1: One was with the Skins, one was with the Green
Speaker 1: Bay UM. But my experience at Langston UM. I worked
Speaker 1: in the oil fields. In the off season. I would
Speaker 1: go to Louisiana do lac Venice h Morgan City and
Speaker 1: I work on oil rigs U for the summer of
Speaker 1: seventy two and seventy three. And I was making like
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars a week, you know, working twelve hours
Speaker 1: shifts and going in you know, I was on a
Speaker 1: drilling rig. And and so I would come back to
Speaker 1: Oklahoma and buy me a piece of a car, you know,
Speaker 1: I buy a Cadillac, you know, some big piece of
Speaker 1: you know nothing. Um. But I wouldn't trade the experience
Speaker 1: of the life on an HBCU campus for anything. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, integration came when it came. Um. I even
Speaker 1: think that I was part of the population of Dallas.
Speaker 1: I integrated Dallas. I went everywhere in Dallas. I mean
Speaker 1: I went to places I wasn't supposed to go in Dallas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'd walk in and sit down, I'm like, what
Speaker 1: what that's bad? That's reason and the reason I asked
Speaker 1: that question. So that presentation on the Black College Football
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, it was called Black College Football The
Speaker 1: Road to Equality, and they had an interview with Deacon Jones.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. He was given a speech and it
Speaker 1: might have been his acceptance speech into the Black College
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, right, and he was talking about you know,
Speaker 1: and this is back in he's in college and around
Speaker 1: sixty one, I guess and uh, and you know he
Speaker 1: was HBCU and and basically all they played was other
Speaker 1: HBCU schools. And his quote was he said I had
Speaker 1: to get to the pros to hit a white guy. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: you know what He's right. You know, that Deacon Jones
Speaker 1: talk is the greatest talk I've ever heard about race.
Speaker 1: That's true, Hollywood, every time they play it, it is
Speaker 1: the deepest. You know, he integrated football like no. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, Dick Knight train Lane, who also went to
Speaker 1: my high school in Austin, integrated to the Rams and Detroit.
Speaker 1: But I don't think there's been a better spoken African
Speaker 1: American on the experience of equality. And you know when
Speaker 1: he says I had to get all the way into
Speaker 1: the NFL to hit a white guy without getting arrested,
Speaker 1: without getting arrested, you know you should play that. That
Speaker 1: is that's very powerful. And I'm I'm very, very honor
Speaker 1: to be in the Black College Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: As I say to my friends, I you know, I
Speaker 1: have to make up stuff. I go, I'm in the
Speaker 1: NFL Hall of Fame. I just came through the kitchen.
Speaker 1: Well guess what part of this presentation that I learned?
Speaker 1: And Everson knows this. So the Black College Football Hall
Speaker 1: of Fames in Atlanta, but they're moving it to Canton, Ohio.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a part of the Pro Football
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame campus area and they're doing it there.
Speaker 1: So you've you've moved through the kitchen. They've they've already moved.
Speaker 1: They already have a display in there. Yeah. Right. And
Speaker 1: I talked to two Tall and made him laugh. I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm in the Hall of Fame. I
Speaker 1: came to the kitchen, but I'm in the hall. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, in the Cowboys. I mean, so you've got
Speaker 1: two guys right here in the Hall of Fame, Black
Speaker 1: College Hall of Fame along with to Tall, Jethro pu uh,
Speaker 1: Rayfield Wright, Bob Hayes. Uh And I didn't know this one,
Speaker 1: Timmy Newsom Winston said. And then uh, in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: the induction class, Eric Williams has just been selected. So boys,
Speaker 1: you know, and they've had other guys that when South
Speaker 1: Carolina State, right, Jumy King also South Carolina State, right,
Speaker 1: And you know Nce Norman was one of the first guys.
Speaker 1: Uh it was what J. C. Smith College in in Charlotte,
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Uh So there that's one of the oldest
Speaker 1: black colleges in the country, right right, And you know,
Speaker 1: and he told me some great stories when he got
Speaker 1: here and the whole lunch counter thing when Gil was
Speaker 1: going to take him to lunch after they got here
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't let him in, and uh and and
Speaker 1: and and got Jethro Pu was another guy that had
Speaker 1: gone to HBCU. So there was a Cowboys recruited or
Speaker 1: I should say drafted well or had guys walk in
Speaker 1: uh for to to beyond the team. And I was, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was surprised. The other thing, I was surprised, and
Speaker 1: I Hollywood, I had told them, uh Everson about this. Well,
Speaker 1: there was other guys you mentioned uh Dexter Kling Skills,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Smith, Jackson State. Remember uh Mark Washington Pedis, I said,
Speaker 1: fedis North, Yeah, Kenneth Kenny Gant, Payson Hatcher went to
Speaker 1: Grambling State. Mike Hegman, I mentioned what Florida A and
Speaker 1: m right? Uh so, yeah, the Cowboys had been very
Speaker 1: familiar bringing. But but I didn't realize was all the
Speaker 1: very prominent players in the NFL that had gone to
Speaker 1: HBCUs that I I didn't realize guys like Charlie Joyner
Speaker 1: and Leroy Kelly and regular Art Shell. I had no
Speaker 1: idea until I saw that and started going through the
Speaker 1: live I think went to Virginia Union? Was Virginia? Was
Speaker 1: Maryland Eastern? Did you so when you guys went to
Speaker 1: those schools, did you know that there were other prominent
Speaker 1: NFL players already that had gone to HBCUs. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: had no idea. I was from Dallas, man, all I
Speaker 1: knew big from the suburbs of Dallas. All I knew
Speaker 1: was Cowboys. And even my father went to Prayer of
Speaker 1: View for one year before he had to drop out.
Speaker 1: But and he was the first in his family to
Speaker 1: go to college period. So no, there were some things.
Speaker 1: I there was a lot, a whole lot. I did
Speaker 1: not know about it. But what I did come to
Speaker 1: find out was all those HBCU players that came to
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, every last one of them was underpaid. You
Speaker 1: can say what you want, the plantation mentality was still there,
Speaker 1: even though we got opportunities that we would never give back.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Holly would love playing for the Cowboys. To
Speaker 1: play for the Cowboys American team was amazing. But let's
Speaker 1: be real. Gil Brant is in the Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: right now because he was able to fire cheap labor,
Speaker 1: is to it. Let's just be real. He knew that
Speaker 1: we were cheap, and he knew we were talented, and
Speaker 1: so he was able. And as we went through all
Speaker 1: our careers, I don't know, probably every HBCU player had
Speaker 1: to hold out during negotiations at least once undergo. Well,
Speaker 1: I actually got paid because I was the number one
Speaker 1: draft choice. Oh sorry, I was just a free energy
Speaker 1: I'm speaking for the free agency. And then Landry named
Speaker 1: me for the starting lineup and I held them up.
Speaker 1: I mean I robbed him. Uh. Gil didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do, and I just I bought a house. I
Speaker 1: made him buy me a house and to give me
Speaker 1: another sign of bonus. And so we didn't make a lot,
Speaker 1: but I, as a number one pick, I was able
Speaker 1: to make a living. Um, you know, still grateful that
Speaker 1: they picked me. Landry still shaking his head on why
Speaker 1: he let them pick me. But it was an honor
Speaker 1: and a privilege to be a cowboy. I tell the
Speaker 1: story when Hollywood was talking about going places in Dallas
Speaker 1: that he never should have been. I'm sitting in my
Speaker 1: own living room, in my mom's house. I'm still at
Speaker 1: Grammy Stage University, and I look up. I'm talking to
Speaker 1: my girlfriend on the phone. I look up. Hollywood is
Speaker 1: standing in my doorway. I had never met Hollywood in
Speaker 1: my life, and he's in Hamilton's Park in my house,
Speaker 1: calling some girl in my neighborhood. How he ended up
Speaker 1: in my house to this case, I will never know. So, yes,
Speaker 1: go on places that were surprised the heck out of you,
Speaker 1: but no one was more surprised to see him standing
Speaker 1: in my living room trying to call some girl. So
Speaker 1: he didn't go visit him in my neighborhood. Hollywood, tell why,
Speaker 1: I mean, let me tell you what I did to
Speaker 1: Hamilton's Park was the closest I couldn't go to South Dallas.
Speaker 1: I lived in North Dallas. But I have to tell
Speaker 1: you what I did for the Cowboys. So it's uh
Speaker 1: seventy maybe seventy seven. I go into the shower thing
Speaker 1: and there was this brillo brillow whatever it was for
Speaker 1: white hair. You know, put on put you know, make
Speaker 1: my hair hard. And so I knew about glycering. Glycering
Speaker 1: is what to put the Jerry curl in your hair
Speaker 1: you want. I had hair, but you know, make your
Speaker 1: hair shine, you know. So I went to the cowboy
Speaker 1: locker room and raised hell. I said, I want some
Speaker 1: afro combs, some ice, some some cake cake cake picks,
Speaker 1: and I want some glycering in here. And Buck Buchanan
Speaker 1: went down to Halton Park and bought up a bunch
Speaker 1: of glycering. So I integrated the hair down cowboys. Hey,
Speaker 1: and you know what, it's so crazy, Spats when you
Speaker 1: think about the locker room itself, it was an entity
Speaker 1: of its own. Not only did you have to integrate
Speaker 1: the hair products as Hollywood was talking about. From what
Speaker 1: I hear, Jene Fuga came in and tried to integrate
Speaker 1: the music in the locker room. Now, the music was
Speaker 1: all country music. And you know, when when you I
Speaker 1: would imagine when you're in there every day all day.
Speaker 1: After a while, it's just white noise. Nobody really cares
Speaker 1: about what the music is. But as soon as Gene
Speaker 1: Fuget went in with different types of music, went in
Speaker 1: with the R and B music, the pop music, jazz, blues.
Speaker 1: He had it all because he was a DJ at
Speaker 1: North Texas State University called flight Time from nine to midnight.
Speaker 1: I used to listen to him every night when I
Speaker 1: was fourteen fifteen years old. So he tried to integrate
Speaker 1: the locker room in regards to just music. And from
Speaker 1: what I hear, it was an undertaking as if it
Speaker 1: was a march on the Petway Bridge in Birmingham. I
Speaker 1: mean it was that serious to where all of a
Speaker 1: sudden he goes in, he starts changing the music, and
Speaker 1: all the white guys go crazy, Hey, who's changing the music? Well,
Speaker 1: they're gonna listen to music. We want to listen No.
Speaker 1: So from what I hear now, I wasn't. I wasn't
Speaker 1: there at the time, but I heard the story that
Speaker 1: they had to have this big power out about integrating music.
Speaker 1: So you talk about, you know, being a micro Cosmo society,
Speaker 1: the locker room itself was always a Michael Cosmo society.
Speaker 1: You know. One of the other things they pointed out
Speaker 1: on that the road to your quality. They pointed out
Speaker 1: the quality of the players that had gone to the HBCU.
Speaker 1: And they pointed out that, you know, at one point
Speaker 1: Walter Payton was the all time leading rusher HBCU, right
Speaker 1: Jackson State, Jerry Rice the all time leader still in
Speaker 1: the receptions and touchdowns HBCU Mississippi Valley State. They mentioned
Speaker 1: Deacon Jones being defensive end and the strayhand which I
Speaker 1: had forgotten, had gone to Texas Southern, I believe in
Speaker 1: single season record for sacks. And they were just talking
Speaker 1: about the quality of players they came for. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't just you know, and I think the thing that
Speaker 1: mcgoth grammed state that left the league and interceptions three
Speaker 1: times as well. Right, I heard about this guy, I
Speaker 1: heard about this guy and that list of players. You
Speaker 1: have to have your own section right to get your
Speaker 1: get your name out there. Right. But but and so
Speaker 1: it appeared to me listening to these guys talk that
Speaker 1: they all kind of made their own presentations. Not only
Speaker 1: were they great athletes, but they they sounded like they
Speaker 1: matured going to those schools and became prominent people in society. Also,
Speaker 1: it wasn't just in athletics. And a lot of them
Speaker 1: were saying, well, this is what raised me, this is
Speaker 1: why I got where I ended up getting. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I came into the Cowboys from an HBCU
Speaker 1: and we were we were flashy, we were showoffs. We
Speaker 1: were we talked crap, we talked, you know, and so
Speaker 1: um Tom and Landry being conservative military background Texas background,
Speaker 1: um he and I you know, you know, and I
Speaker 1: had no fear. I had no sense. A matter of fact,
Speaker 1: I didn't have enough sense to have any fear. Um.
Speaker 1: I just loved to play football. I didn't. I hated
Speaker 1: the politics, and I hated the racism. And the racism
Speaker 1: was like it was so thick you could cut it. Uh.
Speaker 1: During my time as a Dallas Cowboy, and there were
Speaker 1: there were there, there were us and them, and that
Speaker 1: just ain't no way to describe it. Um. And and
Speaker 1: I fought against it. I raised hell more times than
Speaker 1: anybody knows. And um, we won concessions, We won some
Speaker 1: equality in the Dollars Cowboy locker room. Not because it
Speaker 1: was me being crazy. It was because Raphael was watching,
Speaker 1: and Jethro was watching, and two Tall was watching, and Dick,
Speaker 1: I mean Gregory was watching, and and Benny Barnes was watching,
Speaker 1: and Mail noticed and and and so I sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, made myself the target. But I like to
Speaker 1: think that, as crazy as one may think, my life was,
Speaker 1: I played some quality football for the Dollars Cowboys and
Speaker 1: and and in that locker room. Uh, I made a difference.
Speaker 1: All I wanted was respect, you know. I didn't like
Speaker 1: Jerry Tubbs coming up like this close to my face
Speaker 1: talking to him. I pushed him. You know, you don't
Speaker 1: I did. I had to break I hit him. I
Speaker 1: hit him. I hit him on the sideline. He never
Speaker 1: came up to me again. I said, don't don't do that.
Speaker 1: Don't don't do that. You don't come right here. You
Speaker 1: might have COVID, you know. One of the one of
Speaker 1: the stories on that presentation, The Road to Equality, Robert Brazil.
Speaker 1: I guess he played for the Houston I remember right
Speaker 1: ilay with him. You did. Yeah, I was on oiler
Speaker 1: for a little while. For a little while, and he
Speaker 1: was talking about, uh, he had got invited to play
Speaker 1: in the East West Shrine Game, which I guess it
Speaker 1: was in San Francisco maybe back then. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: was talking about getting coming off an elevator and it
Speaker 1: was a black man on an elevator and he said
Speaker 1: the next thing he knew, there was a gun at
Speaker 1: his head, like what are you doing there? And somebody
Speaker 1: with the Shrine game said, well, we're gonna wait a minute.
Speaker 1: He's one of our players. And he said, if somebody
Speaker 1: hadn't spoken up for me, because I was a black
Speaker 1: man in the sixties on an elevator, I was in trouble.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of those those stories probably
Speaker 1: getting lost because people just assume this is forty fifty
Speaker 1: years later or everything was just fine. And Everson, you
Speaker 1: reminded me and I was listening to it. James Harris
Speaker 1: quarterback from he basically broke the color line for quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: and I think one of the people were telling the
Speaker 1: stories about him coming out of Grambling and they were
Speaker 1: obviously no black quarterbacks in the NFL back then, and
Speaker 1: it was like, well, we're gonna look at you as
Speaker 1: a wide receiver or a defensive back, and I think
Speaker 1: I don't know if he said it was Eddie Robinson
Speaker 1: or whoever. Basically told the scout he's a quarterback. Don't
Speaker 1: look at him as anything else. And I think you
Speaker 1: were at least familiar with him, having gone to Grambling Stake. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: they called him Shack, So James Shaq Hamms. I don't
Speaker 1: know why they called him Shack, but that name is
Speaker 1: with him to this day. I talked to him the
Speaker 1: other day. He tells a story, of course, when he
Speaker 1: gets to Buffalo, if I'm not mistaken, because the drafted
Speaker 1: Buffalo first, and of course they immediately try to put
Speaker 1: him at tight end. And so he tells a story
Speaker 1: of they asked him to running four of your dash,
Speaker 1: and and you know, if he would have run that
Speaker 1: four of your dash at a decent time, the way
Speaker 1: he really could have, then he probably would have been
Speaker 1: been placed at the tight end position. He said, he
Speaker 1: ran the slowest for to your dash you can ever
Speaker 1: run without making it look too obvious, you know, it was.
Speaker 1: These are the kind of things that they just become
Speaker 1: part of our psyche, you know. And the Hollywood talks
Speaker 1: about how what he had to go through with the Cowboys.
Speaker 1: I pretty much sounds like my career as well. As
Speaker 1: soon as I got there, Jeene Stalins first drill, Jene
Speaker 1: Stalins curses me out, not just curses me out and
Speaker 1: calls me a boy to my face. And that's that's
Speaker 1: been documented. You can find that video out there on
Speaker 1: YouTube anywhere. And these are kind of things that you know,
Speaker 1: you you want to react to, but you really can't
Speaker 1: because you know that your career is on the line,
Speaker 1: and so it messes with you and it stays with
Speaker 1: you as well to where you have to take that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just about a coach versus player. He would
Speaker 1: not have called a white player a boy if he
Speaker 1: would have gotten in his face. It just wouldn't be
Speaker 1: that type of reaction. So what you saw was you
Speaker 1: saw what was really going on in the league, and
Speaker 1: you saw what you had to deal with. That anger
Speaker 1: stayed with me throughout my entire career, and it became
Speaker 1: I became kind of like like Thomas, that locker room
Speaker 1: lawyer as they call off. And as much as I
Speaker 1: was mad about, you know what, however the whites treated us,
Speaker 1: I was able to channel that that locker room lawyer attitude,
Speaker 1: not just for the blacks, but I also tried to
Speaker 1: champion for whites as well. If you had a negotiation
Speaker 1: problem with the cowboys, which was that was rampant, like
Speaker 1: like Corona itself, with the cowboy locker room, you were
Speaker 1: always going to have a negotiation problem. Even Randy White
Speaker 1: had to hold out for the cowboys fags. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you were there then, but I was. That
Speaker 1: was my first year. If you recall, we all had
Speaker 1: our fifty four towers on. We had fifty four written
Speaker 1: somewhere on our uniforms because we want to show that
Speaker 1: it wasn't just a black white thing, it's a cowboy thing.
Speaker 1: And that's what we tried to have permeated throughout the
Speaker 1: entire locker room. But that was on the heels of
Speaker 1: how management really treated I thought treated the HBCU players
Speaker 1: throughout my entire career there. So being that locker room
Speaker 1: lawyer as much as you might be fighting and a
Speaker 1: champion for the cause, that's a great deal. But it's
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna happen to you like it happened to
Speaker 1: Hollywood and myself. They're gonna ship you out of there,
Speaker 1: and I gonna ta in that locker room for your
Speaker 1: whole career. Just about it. I since you mentioned Randy White,
Speaker 1: people don't know the story. But in seventy seven, which
Speaker 1: would been my third year as a cowboy, Randy White
Speaker 1: and I competed for the starting position a strong side linebacker.
Speaker 1: And we went through all the training camp and and
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I was clowning him. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm at that covering the tight end. And said, this,
Speaker 1: how you do it? Randy? You look too big on me,
Speaker 1: You look tight, You look tight. You can't so so
Speaker 1: so this is Landry. So obviously I beat him out.
Speaker 1: I beat m anyway out. They put him in tackle,
Speaker 1: but they wanted him to play the strong side linebacker.
Speaker 1: So instead of Landry giving me my victory, I still
Speaker 1: hold a resentment about this. He said to me, Okay,
Speaker 1: now you and Hegman are going to compete for the job.
Speaker 1: And when I beat Hegman out, Jerry Tubbs comes to
Speaker 1: me in the locker room and just whispered to me.
Speaker 1: He said it was real close. I mean, it just
Speaker 1: couldn't give me the benefit of the doubt. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm a pro bowler, I'm an all pro. I don't
Speaker 1: give a damn who voted otherwise. I was a great player,
Speaker 1: and you can't take that away from me, not quietly,
Speaker 1: not with a whisper. I am great. You can't take mine.
Speaker 1: Even you were talking about negotiations. Even Rod had a
Speaker 1: hard time getting time. And I don't know if this
Speaker 1: happened after when you got there or was early seventies,
Speaker 1: but he he'll tell the story about how he was
Speaker 1: trying to get in to talk to Texts about his
Speaker 1: contract and they kept stalling, and he was waiting in
Speaker 1: the in the old tower right out the central uh
Speaker 1: and his administrative assistant, Yeah, Tex will be with you,
Speaker 1: and he said, I waited and waited and waited, and
Speaker 1: finally it was like, Hi, I know what's going on.
Speaker 1: And evidently there was kind of a ledge, kind of
Speaker 1: a walkway outside the window. It was like seven stories
Speaker 1: high or whatever, and he climbed out the window and
Speaker 1: jumped in front of Texts, who was sitting on his
Speaker 1: desk with his feet up, and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: he sees his quarterback out on the left, seven stories high.
Speaker 1: I said to get in. He goes, you're there, right?
Speaker 1: I got Yeah, I got paid. I finally am I
Speaker 1: my second contract with the kill Boys, I got a
Speaker 1: house out of it, some money and double my salary'll
Speaker 1: become a starter. I wasn't going to play that first game.
Speaker 1: After they naming the starter, I had power and I
Speaker 1: went into Guil and said, this is what I want
Speaker 1: and they gave it to me. Now, I thought Danny
Speaker 1: White had funny story about negotiations. So when you were there,
Speaker 1: Danny ended up being the PUNTERO. Yeah, back up, quarterback, backup.
Speaker 1: But he was the punter the whole time. And then
Speaker 1: when he came the starter in eighty, they kept him
Speaker 1: as the punter, right, And so he said the next
Speaker 1: year he went to Gill and said, Bill, you know,
Speaker 1: you think I get a little extras. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: the starting quarterback, but I'm also punny. And He'll would
Speaker 1: tell him, I don't worry, You're not going to punt.
Speaker 1: He goes, We'll find another punter, and he's in. I funny.
Speaker 1: This went on for like two years, and so he
Speaker 1: said the third year, I went in and I said, look,
Speaker 1: I'm still the quarterback and I'm still funny, and yeah,
Speaker 1: he probably have to talk to Tom about that. He
Speaker 1: goes in and lays his case out to Landry right,
Speaker 1: and Landry looked at him and they go and he said,
Speaker 1: you know, Danny, most players in this league, boy, the
Speaker 1: more they can do for the team, they're glad to
Speaker 1: do it. And he goes, I had nothing to come back.
Speaker 1: I just out the door and gave up. Yeah, the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: the cowboy I called him the three headed monster. Between texts,
Speaker 1: Tom and Gil, they had their act together. Man, they
Speaker 1: knew how to work you over. You know, they knew
Speaker 1: the worst to say. By the time I came along, man,
Speaker 1: they were they were adept head you know, kind of
Speaker 1: stalling and negotiations and things of that nature. They became
Speaker 1: very prolific and trying to get the most out of
Speaker 1: you for the least amount of months. I have to
Speaker 1: tell you one, I got one good story. I got
Speaker 1: one good story. I never had the chance to play
Speaker 1: against Grambling. I really wanted to. And so I was
Speaker 1: rookie with the Dallas Cowboys, and I looked up and
Speaker 1: Langston was on Grambling schedule. And so I went to
Speaker 1: bed that night. Man, I woke up that morning. I
Speaker 1: called my coach at Langston. I go, how did it go?
Speaker 1: How did it go? He said, Well, he said, we
Speaker 1: kicked off in all hell broke loose, maybe the sixty
Speaker 1: eighth or nothing of something. I was in that game.
Speaker 1: I was in that game. I got a reception that game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys were like a preview of HBCU. They were
Speaker 1: like six A five eight, Yeah, like five We love.
Speaker 1: We had a good time going up there. I must say. Uh,
Speaker 1: the Lanston fans were amazing. They were cheering for us, Hollywood,
Speaker 1: all of you. Yeah, yeah, but they cheered for us.
Speaker 1: They didn't cheer for you. Guy. Yeah we were We
Speaker 1: went eleven and oh and seventy three, and so that
Speaker 1: was sort of the greatest season in Lankston's history. So
Speaker 1: I claim I'm pretty close about fifty four sacks my
Speaker 1: junior year. One year, you mean one year, one year
Speaker 1: all my tackle your junior year, but you mean one year,
Speaker 1: one year. Everybody else make any tackles. Yeah yeah, but
Speaker 1: they just they just I had two jobs at Lanston,
Speaker 1: Contain and Gold, and so the contain was first and goal.
Speaker 1: So I was everywhere I was in the secondary. I
Speaker 1: was everywhere when I was when I was working at
Speaker 1: the newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi, so we obviously covered the
Speaker 1: swack with all the school the HBCUs schools in in Mississippi,
Speaker 1: and I had just left to come to Dallas, but
Speaker 1: they were getting ready to have this huge game. Uh,
Speaker 1: unbeaten Mississippi Valley stayed again unbeaten Elkhorn State. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys remember this. They ended up they
Speaker 1: were supposed to play the game at Elkhorn and they
Speaker 1: ended up saying no, it was too popular. They ended
Speaker 1: up playing at Mississippi Memorial Stadium. Sold it out sixty
Speaker 1: three thousand people. Yes, And the station in Jackson actually
Speaker 1: the day before finally got the okay to televise the game.
Speaker 1: So that would have been Willie Totton and Jerry Rice
Speaker 1: at Valley State that was coached by Archie Cooley, whose
Speaker 1: nickname was the Gunslinger. Right, so this is eighty four.
Speaker 1: And then at Alcorn it was Marino Cassim. He was
Speaker 1: known as the Godfather. So the paper I was working
Speaker 1: for they wanted to promote the game and it was
Speaker 1: like during the week, so they had the Gunslinger and
Speaker 1: the Godfather. They showed profiles of each guy. And you
Speaker 1: couldn't do this today, right, it's so politically and correct
Speaker 1: from and they each had had a pistol in their
Speaker 1: hand and they were like blowing the end of the
Speaker 1: basic to each other. Those coaches probably loved doing that.
Speaker 1: They didn't see anything anything for or anything to get
Speaker 1: some publicity. Right. Elkhorn ended up winning the game, uh,
Speaker 1: forty two twenty eight. And you'll get a kick out
Speaker 1: of this. The guy that made the interception for Elkhorn
Speaker 1: to seal the game, I could wow. Isaac Hool ended
Speaker 1: up playing for the Cowboys. You walker trade, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it was it was huge and and and then I
Speaker 1: I understood the you know the value of those games
Speaker 1: and those institutes. Those coaches were great, They were just wonderful.
Speaker 1: I have to stay spans. I have played in many
Speaker 1: what we call classics, and uh that was that was
Speaker 1: the norm. We sold out everywhere Yankee Stadium. You can
Speaker 1: go back and look at the James Shack Harris game
Speaker 1: versus h I think it was Morgan State at the time.
Speaker 1: They would. I read it in a book that they
Speaker 1: had maybe four HBCU Hall of Famers in that game
Speaker 1: and probably four NFL Hall of Famers ended up coming
Speaker 1: from that game. Back in nineteen sixty nine, James Shack
Speaker 1: Harris tells the story in Hollywood would love this. You know,
Speaker 1: we're all country boys. They were all country boys that
Speaker 1: have never been on a plane before back in sixty
Speaker 1: eight sixty nine. And so these guys Rob hasn't wearing suits.
Speaker 1: They're probably hot. The suits are probably too too small
Speaker 1: because they probably never wore them. So they get on
Speaker 1: a plane and these guys have never flown before. At
Speaker 1: the plane as the plane takes off, these big guys
Speaker 1: are trying to find a way to roll the window down.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, man, but that's classic. You know, it's classic.
Speaker 1: You know HBC players back in sixty nine, they're groundbreakers.
Speaker 1: But of course we had to do it in a
Speaker 1: comical fashion. Shack Havs has some of the best stories
Speaker 1: that you ever want to hear, and to me, that's
Speaker 1: one of the better ones. But it allowed us as
Speaker 1: as young men to really develop mentally and physically, to
Speaker 1: grow up and to be you know, citizens of the
Speaker 1: United States, and in a good way to where you know,
Speaker 1: we tried to contribute as much as we could, more
Speaker 1: than just being on the field. I mean, that's pretty
Speaker 1: much the monarch of everyone that I know that went
Speaker 1: to an HBCU They made a difference, not just before
Speaker 1: they went to Grambling, but continue to make a difference
Speaker 1: after we left left our HBCUs. One of the contributors
Speaker 1: to the Black College Hall of Football Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: is Doug william and you would have frost passed with
Speaker 1: him at Grambling one year. I was there when he
Speaker 1: was going for the Higsman. I saw it all like
Speaker 1: it was like watching Michael Jordan and cleats. That's how
Speaker 1: good he was. And then he ends up being the
Speaker 1: first black quarterback to win a Super Bowl. Did you
Speaker 1: ever get to play against him from Hollywood? I didn't know. No,
Speaker 1: I'm old, You're old, that's right. I didn't know how
Speaker 1: if he had gotten there early enough. But yeah, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't a cross paths. But did you understand how good
Speaker 1: he was? He was a big contributor to the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame too, But did you realize how good he was? Everson?
Speaker 1: I mean you said the black Michael, There's not about it.
Speaker 1: I actually played against a couple of times in the pros,
Speaker 1: and man took me a lot to trying to keep
Speaker 1: him from trying to teast me because he was coming
Speaker 1: at me big time. I have some of you know
Speaker 1: how because you have some of your better games against
Speaker 1: some of your former teammates, But you know that was
Speaker 1: that was as important. Doug's senior year going for the
Speaker 1: Heisman was as important to HBCUs as take Younger being
Speaker 1: drafted by the Rams way back in the day. That's
Speaker 1: just how impactful it was on everything that HBCU players
Speaker 1: did after that, and then as it even continued as
Speaker 1: he went to the Super Bowl. You know, he was
Speaker 1: such an odd of ty to to all of the
Speaker 1: reporters there, even after playing over what nine ten years
Speaker 1: of the league. You have these crazy questions and press
Speaker 1: conferences asking him how long has he been a black collegue?
Speaker 1: Has he been a black quarterback? You know, they didn't
Speaker 1: know what to ask him at the press conference, and
Speaker 1: thinks that nature and when you look at not just
Speaker 1: Shack story because Shock and Dug to me or go
Speaker 1: hand in hand in regards to bringing the Noli riding
Speaker 1: to HBCUs. But if you look at what Doug and
Speaker 1: Shock had to go through from being HBCUs, I don't
Speaker 1: know how they still have their sanity because that would
Speaker 1: have really it would have been something that would still
Speaker 1: be eating away of me even more than it is today.
Speaker 1: And if you meet these two men, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: you have stags you would, you can you can see
Speaker 1: you can just see the royalty in what they're doing.
Speaker 1: You can see how not only are they understated, but
Speaker 1: they're still very ambitious in regards to what HBCUs deserve.
Speaker 1: That's why we have that. That's so small exhibition there
Speaker 1: at h at the Hall of Fame right now in Canton,
Speaker 1: but it's only going to be bigger. It's going to
Speaker 1: be around I think thirty plus thousand square feet or
Speaker 1: something of that nature. Right now. Right now, it's no
Speaker 1: bigger than my den. Okay, that's what it looks like
Speaker 1: right now. But it's going to be amazing when it's finished.
Speaker 1: And that's simply because mister Baker with the Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame and Shack and Doug have all been in unison
Speaker 1: in regards to bringing more nor Voety to HBC play.
Speaker 1: I also want to want to mention that I got
Speaker 1: a great education at my HBCU. I had to stay eligible,
Speaker 1: I had to have a certain great point everything, and
Speaker 1: I'm here to report I am a college graduate from
Speaker 1: Lankston University and I have an honorary doctorate from university.
Speaker 1: Well that's because I gave him a lot of money. Hey,
Speaker 1: you can get it baby anyway, you guys, I think
Speaker 1: on that note, with those two comments, I just want
Speaker 1: to thank you very much, and I want to encourage
Speaker 1: the people that have listened to us or to go
Speaker 1: to the Black College Football Hall of Fame and check
Speaker 1: out the presentation on the road deal quality and just
Speaker 1: go through and see the guys that have been inducted.
Speaker 1: I think I saw in that College Football Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame thirty one of those inductees had been HBCU athletes.
Speaker 1: It's really enlightening, especially at this day and age. So
Speaker 1: I want to thank you guys completely. I know we've
Speaker 1: taken up your time, but the stories were great, and
Speaker 1: I hope that everybody that gives everybody some sort of
Speaker 1: context to history and what's gone through and how far
Speaker 1: football has come. And it's probably not all the way
Speaker 1: there yet, but the NFL has made a lot of
Speaker 1: progress since probably nineteen sixty. So, Hollywood, thanks very much
Speaker 1: for just Everson. We'll get going on mix shots here
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, hopefully when the Cowboys crank things up,
Speaker 1: get everybody tested and in building safetally right, so we'll
Speaker 1: get back going on Dallas Cowboys dot com. I'm Mickey
Speaker 1: Spagnola and that's mix shots one on one. See you guys,