WEBVTT - Mick Shots: "Hollywood" Henderson 1-On-1 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:14.080 Welcome to Mick Shots one on one. I'm the mid 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.720 part of that Mick Shots Mickey Spagnola. Glad to be 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:21.440 with you guys here on Dallas Cowboys dot com. And 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.920 this past week I saw a very interesting presentation on 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:32.239 the Black College Football Hall of Fame site and they 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:37.520 had a great presentation on the impact of the historically 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:42.000 black college and universities over the years on not only 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.400 the impact of players, but the amount of players that 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:50.320 they supplied to the National Football League. And going through 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:55.040 their Hall of Fame, I found two guys that are 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.640 joining us today to be able to talk about that 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:04.399 presentation and their careers at HBCU schools. No better than 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:09.880 my Mick SHOT's partner Everson Walls, who we haven't talked 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.080 on screen for quite some time. Bags, I miss you, man, 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.400 I miss you, and mission do your deal. And also 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:22.680 former Cowboys Pro Bowl linebacker Thomas Hollywood Henderson. And these 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:27.080 two guys are members of that Black College Football Hall 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.720 of Fame. Thomas, good to have you with us, Thank you, good, 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:35.600 good to be seen specially now. It's good to just 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.000 have somebody else to talk to you other than my wife. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.039 I'm probably driving her crazier. So good to have you 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.920 guys here. And Everson, you were well aware of the 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:52.000 presentation that the Black College Football Hall of Fame put 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.240 on last week on the website. I thought it was 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.920 awfully interesting, and you even had a partner, had had 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:04.160 some stuff to say on your experience there and working 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.600 with coach Rob and so I just thought we'd start 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.640 off and you guys kind of tell the story of 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.160 why you ended up at Grambling State and Thomas ended 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:21.639 up at Langston. Uh. You know the HBCUs schools back then, 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.079 and you know, if anybody's not familiar, if you go 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:30.520 back into the sixties, um, and and through some of 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:34.080 the seventies, Uh, there wasn't a lot of opportunities for 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:38.520 black athletes to go uh to colleges and universities, other 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.400 than maybe some that were in the North, but certainly 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.640 not in the South. Uh. And Everson ended up going 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:51.000 to Grambling State. I believe you got there sixties seven? 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:58.120 Is that right? Was the seventies seven? Sorry, I probably 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:05.799 would be dead by now that David, Yeah, it's seventy seven. Yeah, 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.760 that was mine. I graduated from Berlin in high school 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.520 and Richardson and I had to go to that black 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.639 college experience after growing up in Richardson, h I think 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.160 with what's going on now with the whole Black Lives 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.960 Matter thing, I think it kind of just brings up 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.480 a whole new relevance of what I went through and 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:32.040 what most HBCU players went through. I'm sure Hollywood probably 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:37.040 has even more strange stories being up in Oklahoma, but 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.800 coming from Richardson, we were part of the suburbs here 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.160 in Dallas, but the racism was still as under shaved 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.600 as it was. It's still very prevalent in our lives 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.840 at that time, and I think this is just extremely 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:57.200 prevalent now with what's going on, uh in society. This, 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.800 you know, this has put a whole new light to 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:05.800 me on all HBCU athletes and why we ended up 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:10.440 at HBCUs. You can, you know, talk about the way 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.760 society was at that time and well and as you 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.279 as you peeled back to fail, uh, you still having 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:22.440 these same problems. So I think that's what's so universal 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.520 about this. We're still having the same problems now that 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.719 myself in Hollywood and Doug Williams and all those guys 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.600 went through even back then, which is a sad part 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:38.080 about it, but it also it lends to the fortitude 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.480 and strength that we had to keep on pushing as 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:46.320 HPCU athletes. Thomas, you ended up you were from Texas, 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.960 and you ended up going, as ever soon pointed out 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:54.880 into Oklahoma to Langston University. And I'm not sure I 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.720 ever heard of Langston until I knew you went to college. 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.640 I up in Austin, and I went to live with 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.760 my grandmother my junior year, and because Oklahoma and Texas 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.680 or border states, I couldn't play football my junior year 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.520 if you moved to a state without your parents exactly. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:18.440 So I end up nineteen seventy one, finishing high school. 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:24.320 Met Barry Switzer at Douglas High School. And see there 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:29.239 was the Vietnam War, and being drafted was in nineteen 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.800 seventy one. I was one egg, Like that's six weeks 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:40.240 in Vietnam. So I flunk geometry in Austin and had 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.200 to go to summer school to finish high school. So 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.480 colleges weren't looking at me. I'll tell you a quick story, 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.640 which tall I don't can't remember which college it was, 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.159 which Tall state? I think plane crash in nineteen seventy 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:57.120 he lost the whole football program. I write this long letter. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.440 I say, boy, now, if I could make a football team, 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.760 I can that one, because ain't nobody left. They sent 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:08.560 me a Dear Jo. They sent me a Dear John. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.680 Uh No, you know, and I go wow. So I 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.280 really was a walk on at Lunston University nineteen seventy one, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.920 you know, as a history would have it. I get 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.640 there on a Tuesday, the starting defensive end broke his 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:31.960 ankle on Wednesday. I was starting at Kentucky State up 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:37.520 in Kentucky that Saturday. So my career at Langston. But 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.680 you know, I didn't even know what an HBCU was 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:47.039 in eighteen seventy one, but I knew there was a 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.920 college up there called Langston and they had a football team. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.800 And I had made All City Honorable mention All States. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.160 So they let me walk on. And my life has 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:04.040 been better because as I went to an HBCUUM. Barry 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.400 Switzer always says he regrets not signing me. He was 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:12.920 signed a boy named Rod Sholt instead. Um. But and 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.560 actually my experience for the HBCU was I sawted at 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.640 some point my junior year. I'm making all these all 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:25.440 America teams and all this stuff, but the scouts weren't coming, 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.160 and so I said, I'm gonna run truck. That's what 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.360 I'm gonna do. I'm gonna run truck. So I end up. 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.200 You know, I gotta tell you that I went to 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:40.360 the Kansas Relays in nineteen seventy three and I won 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.000 the Oklahoma Clegia Conference hundred yard dash and nine to six. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:50.040 And I go to Kansas and I don't remember the 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:55.200 pouncing twins and some of these boys back in the day. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:08:00.440 The winning time was nine two Thomas Henders and came 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:07.880 in dead last. Nine five pulled me. They pulled me 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:12.520 a tenth of a second. What size were you when 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:18.440 you were running bad two eighteen two seventeen sixty three. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:27.520 Huh the typical track athlete. I triple jumped. I long jumped, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.520 and um, I'd have thrown the javelins. They give me one. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:40.400 So track gate you some notoriety. Uh people noticed, I think, yeah, 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:45.640 I think Gil Brandt and uh um texts and uh. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:50.079 The rams were really high on me. They were gonna 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.000 take me the twenty fourth or twenty SECNT remember which 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:59.320 which picked they had tank Younger scouted me, letting himself 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.400 Grambling State. Yeah, and I, um, you know what I 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.600 do at Lenkston because there would be so few, because 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.520 it'd be one scout, one patent measure, you know, one 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:16.360 starting line once finished, like one guy. And I run 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.640 my butt off that first first one and I come 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.199 up and he goes, I think someone wrong my watch. 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.120 I said, what's wrong? What did you get? He's like, 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.160 I got a full fall, but I think my watches broke. 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:36.600 I said, well, I ain't run the move so all 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:42.760 the time, Everson, Uh, your experience at Grambling when you 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.439 first got there, what was your impression? You get coach 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.960 rob Eddie Robinson as their head coach, and uh, how 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.400 did that? What was your impression when you've got to 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.640 Grambling State. I tell the story all the time. My 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.559 mom drove me there. Everybody knows my mom. She was 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.360 a beautiful lady, and she was pretty, you know at 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.599 hip as they call it. You know, we're driving a 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:12.200 Corvette to Gramley State University. So everyone at on campus 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.560 when they first saw me and my mom and her car, 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.400 they just thought we were rich, you know, which we 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.920 surely were not growing up in Hamington Park. And so 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.319 we ended up going there and it was really a 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.080 desperate cause we were going there to see if I 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:32.040 could sign on with this team. I had not been 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.320 off of the scholarship. I had only been given an 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.240 invitation to the spring football game. So if you haven't 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.680 signed a player by the spring football game, most likely 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.360 you're not gonna That player is not gonna get signed. 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.360 So I was really going up there for hell, married 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.160 my mom, you know, just pleading with coach Robinson, and 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.160 we were able to get that last scholarship that was available. 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.200 So as much as people think I walked on, I 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.480 walked in, and I walked into coach Robb's office and 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:07.920 basically begged him to give me an opportunity. And I'm 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:12.480 pretty sure someone had renagged on a scholarship because otherwise 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.520 you just don't have scholarships like that laying around, especially 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.680 at HBCUs at the time. And so I was able 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.320 to get that last scholarship, and the opportunity came for 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.880 me to really indoctrinate myself into the system. So I 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.640 went to summer school. I was all in, you know, 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.240 that was it. If I don't get that scholarship, I 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:35.600 don't know what happens to me, because I needed to 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.160 go to college at that time, things which were just 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.640 pretty tough in my neighborhood, pretty tough in the city 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:46.200 of Dallas. I had had a history with with the 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.640 law at going through high school, so I did not 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.920 want to revisit any of those issues when my mom 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.800 was trying to use this opportunity for me to move 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.920 on out of the situation I was in. By the 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.559 grace of God, Coach Robinson was very amenable to understood 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.680 what was going on, and typically Coach Robinson, he saw 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.920 a family that needed help, He saw a mother that 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.360 needed assistance with her son, and he was there to 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.760 lend a hand. And I think he could see that 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.000 immediately when we walked into the office. I think the 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.760 desperation on our face was probably pretty pretty palpable because 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.920 he was able to be very nice to us and 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.960 and very of commandant. Was it comforting for you to 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.560 go to an HBCU at that time in your life? 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.520 To be yes, oh, dad, that's a good question, Fan, 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:42.400 I truly needed that. My self esteem was pretty low, 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.680 which brings out anger in most kids, and I was. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.280 I was an angry young man, even going through Grambling 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.920 and of course playing for the cowboys as well. I 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:56.240 had an issue with the people that didn't agree with me, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:02.360 and I needed the HBCU atmosphere to really give me 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:07.199 a sense of self, to learn about my people, and 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.599 to really have a lot of confidence in how I 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.720 felt about myself as a person. And by the time 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.680 I left Grammar State University, I think I was fully 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.320 armored with all the twos that I need from a 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:25.680 social standpoint and economically as well. Hollywood for you, so 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:30.800 you said you started there in seventy one, and I 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.640 pardoned for asking. But when you were in high school 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:40.400 in Austin where the schools already integrated them, No, they 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:45.440 integrated and I think seventy I had went to school, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:51.520 Junior High School and University of Texas, Little Junior High, Court, University, 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:57.320 Junior High. We integrated it. In nineteen sixty six, Linkston 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.920 didn't have scholarships. I told him my mother made a 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.000 dollar an hour, and they said, were you you good 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.319 for the pel grant? So I went to my HBCU 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.760 four years on financial aid. Of course, you know, I 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:16.679 never had to pay anything, but scholarships really came along later. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.880 I think for the black athlete, the pel grants U 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.920 were a lifesaver for HBCUs because you didn't have to 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.280 pay that back. And so being in All America. You know, 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.400 I've made All Conference a sophomore year, made All America, 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.520 my junior year, made four or five All Americas my 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.040 senior year, and I knew guys on scholarship. But I 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.200 was doing a lot better because I got access to 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:49.360 some money, you know, I to spend the chase. Oh 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.760 they look at They gave me a check one day 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.120 they stuck it, stuck a checking through the little thing 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.560 at at the student and it was thirteen hundred dollars 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.800 and my name was on it. She put it through 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:06.000 that I took it ran I cash that check. So 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.680 the next semester I come up there and are you 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:15.040 come in here? You're extealing this check. But but the 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:22.520 experience with the fraternities and the brotherhood, the bands, the 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:27.360 camarade with other guys, crazy people, your name, you know, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:33.920 you name people and the nickname Staywood him forever you know, Um, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:40.960 I'm oh man, I have to tell you all. One 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.280 story at Langston when I sort of knew I was 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.720 pretty good, but we had a thing called bulling the ring, 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.000 and that means the player gets in the middle of 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.120 list and put fifty guys around you in a circle, 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.200 and the coach will call in number, you know, twelve, fifteen. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.120 So I was lightening people up, I mean jack and 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.920 when they came out there running at me, and finally 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:14.080 nobody would come. The coach would say fifteen, nobody would come, twenty, 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:20.600 every everybody had a number that wouldn't come. So a 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:26.560 lot of fun times um playing at length to university. Yeah, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:32.280 I wouldn't change any part of my my college experience, 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:37.640 the relationships, the friendships that are still going ongoing. I'm 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.080 still friends with you know, all the guys I played 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.560 with same here. So it's a it's a pretty it's 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:50.080 a family affair when you go to an HBCU. And 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.040 so people will find me on Facebook all the time 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:54.600 and I don't know who the hell they are. Then 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.440 they remind me of something. Go ahead, go ahead, fact 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.480 I was gonna say. I was just gonna give everybody 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.600 some historical reference to back. So Thomas and I are 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.320 basically the same age. I started college in seventy one, 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.359 so we were in high school at the same time. 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:15.639 I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, I didn't 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:20.240 know anything about segregation. I went to a high school 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.280 of about, I don't know, four thousand and twenty five 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:28.160 percent of the school was African American. So I just 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.640 thought that that was life, right. And so I'll tell 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.359 and I knew better, but I'm going to give you 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.760 a story of how naive I was. I was working 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.000 at the newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi, and this would have 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.880 been roughly forty years ago, and we were doing these 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.359 neat stories, going into these little towns and doing a 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.960 story on an athlete from there along with the town's 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.880 history and so. And I cannot remember the guy's name, 0:17:55.400 --> 0:18:02.440 but he was a defensive player in high school and 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:08.000 handed up going to Michigan State be Doherty at that time, 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:12.679 and Thomas might remember this. He was he was coming 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.480 into the South in Mississippi and recruiting the black athletes 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:22.520 because they couldn't go to the schools in state, you know, LSU, Alabama, Mississippi, 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:27.920 Missississippi states not available to him, right, And so I'm 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.320 doing the interview and this guy telling me in high 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.240 school all the awards he got and how good he was, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.159 and dumb me goes, you mean to tell me you 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.880 were that good. And so he's coming out of high 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.919 school and about sixty seven sixty six, right, and I go, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.080 you were that good and like old miss and Mississippi 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:52.000 State didn't offer you a scholarship. He looked at me 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.080 and he goes, Son, he goes, where did you grow up? 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.360 At about time? I wanted to just crawl into the 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.720 ground to do what I had just done, He goes, 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:06.440 Those opportunities for people like me weren't available at that time. 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:10.439 And the truth because those schools really didn't integrate to 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:15.600 late sixties early seventies for sure. You know, as you 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.560 as you listen, as you listen to what Hollywood was 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:22.600 talking about and his career at Langston, you still had 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.600 different levels of HBCUs. You know, as you can tell 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.919 from from what Hollywood was talking about, Langston didn't have 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.159 many resources at all. As much as you've got Hollywood there, 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.399 it's pretty I'm sure some other great athletes that were there. 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.000 I was blessed enough to go to to really the 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:44.080 the the the pinnacle of HBCUs, especially when it came 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:49.120 to football. Grambling as much as we were known as 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.840 this this rich institution at the time, Grambling's home home 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.920 stadium only held three thousand people, and that that went 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:02.679 on until until the Eddie Robinson Stadium was built, so 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.520 we're talking about it maybe around two thousand. That went 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.480 on until around two thousand. So if you're gonna play 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.840 a game at Grambling, they don't even have the facilities 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.840 there to where you can set up a televised game. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.199 So all of our games, and to me, by the 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:21.880 grace of Guy, all of our games were on the road. 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:26.240 We had eight road games a year, eight and every 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.040 time we went on the road, we would play other 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.679 teams in the biggest stadium in that state. So if 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.480 we go to play Jackson State at all Corn, then 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.080 we're gonna play where Old miss plays. We're gonna play 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:43.600 in their stadium. If we're gonna go to Houston, we're 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:45.880 not gonna play at Prairie View, or we're gonna gonna 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.879 play a Texas Southern, We're gonna play in the Astrodome 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.199 at the time. And so that's what really helped me 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.680 in regards to my growth as a person, being able 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.760 to travel to all these different places of the standards 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.800 that Coach Robinson put upon us as we traveled and 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.320 how we went to represent ourselves and our university suits 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.639 and ties everywhere you go. Uh, don't be don't step 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.080 out of line. You know we're representing Grambling. It was 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:19.520 all about representing our institution. And when you're doing that 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.080 eight times a year, as well as your homework and 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:25.600 this vow that he made to our parents that he's 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:30.960 gonna graduate, You're gonna graduate your sons. Uh. It was. 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.160 It was a type of responsibility that I have never 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:39.040 been had to adhere to ever in my life. Those 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.440 kind of responsibilities, that kind of activity, and that kind 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:48.120 of adhering to those kind of things were something new 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.639 for me. And it really it forces you when you 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.160 go to an HBCU. It forces you to grow up 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.720 and be more responsible, not just to yourself but to 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.760 your let's just be real, to your race into your school. 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.919 When when you guys you your football schedule. Did you 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:09.399 only play HBC schools or did you play some colleges 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:13.320 that were already integrate It depended on I remember my 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.879 rookie year. I was so mad I did not I 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.879 made every trip. Uh. My freshman year couldn't believe it. 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:25.240 I made every trip except for when Doug Williams and 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:31.080 the guys went to China and played Temple. They went 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:35.600 and played Temple and they left me at home. Man, 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.400 I was so hot, you know, because I mean, I'm 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.879 a kid from Hamilton Park. I got a chance to 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.520 go to China, and if I'm not mistaken it with 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.199 two days to go, they made up their mind that 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.200 I could not make the trip. So they probably gave 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:54.920 my trip up to some professor or something that coach 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.639 coach rob knew and probably a neighbor of coach Robinsons. 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.760 But now I had to stay home and my girlfriend 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.240 Severn go to you Hollywood? Did you only you were 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.879 in AIA at that time? Was that right? Yeah? But 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.360 we were. We were in the Oklahoma Collegiate Conference, so 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:16.680 we we played Northeastern, Northwestern, we played Cameron, we played 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:23.199 Central State, so we we played Panhandle and and uh 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.320 so it was it was if if you were to 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:31.680 rate our game in nineteen seventy one, seventy two, seventy three, 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:45.080 we were like high school sixth a. We had a 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:50.280 motley crew man. But I wouldn't I wouldn't trade any 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:55.480 of that. Several guys, Gerard Williams, Kenneth Payne, played in 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:58.399 the NFL that played with me. There were year ahead 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:01.719 of me, and and I got to play against them. 0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:03.920 One was with the Skins, one was with the Green 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:09.399 Bay UM. But my experience at Langston UM. I worked 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.960 in the oil fields. In the off season. I would 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:18.520 go to Louisiana do lac Venice h Morgan City and 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.080 I work on oil rigs U for the summer of 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:25.360 seventy two and seventy three. And I was making like 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:28.760 five hundred dollars a week, you know, working twelve hours 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:32.200 shifts and going in you know, I was on a 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:35.159 drilling rig. And and so I would come back to 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.879 Oklahoma and buy me a piece of a car, you know, 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:43.639 I buy a Cadillac, you know, some big piece of 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:48.320 you know nothing. Um. But I wouldn't trade the experience 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:53.200 of the life on an HBCU campus for anything. Um. 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:59.960 You know, integration came when it came. Um. I even 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:04.440 think that I was part of the population of Dallas. 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:08.480 I integrated Dallas. I went everywhere in Dallas. I mean 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:11.800 I went to places I wasn't supposed to go in Dallas. Yeah, 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:17.280 and I'd walk in and sit down, I'm like, what 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:22.639 what that's bad? That's reason and the reason I asked 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:27.960 that question. So that presentation on the Black College Football 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.840 Hall of Fame, it was called Black College Football The 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:34.680 Road to Equality, and they had an interview with Deacon Jones. 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:38.879 Uh and uh. He was given a speech and it 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:42.000 might have been his acceptance speech into the Black College 0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:45.119 Hall of Fame, right, and he was talking about you know, 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.159 and this is back in he's in college and around 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:52.199 sixty one, I guess and uh, and you know he 0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:56.480 was HBCU and and basically all they played was other 0:25:56.680 --> 0:26:00.960 HBCU schools. And his quote was he said I had 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:05.800 to get to the pros to hit a white guy. Yeah, right, 0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:10.080 you know what He's right. You know, that Deacon Jones 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:15.240 talk is the greatest talk I've ever heard about race. 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:19.560 That's true, Hollywood, every time they play it, it is 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:25.880 the deepest. You know, he integrated football like no. I mean, 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.359 you know, Dick Knight train Lane, who also went to 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:33.040 my high school in Austin, integrated to the Rams and Detroit. 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:39.360 But I don't think there's been a better spoken African 0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:44.240 American on the experience of equality. And you know when 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:46.560 he says I had to get all the way into 0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:50.600 the NFL to hit a white guy without getting arrested, 0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:56.239 without getting arrested, you know you should play that. That 0:26:56.400 --> 0:27:00.359 is that's very powerful. And I'm I'm very, very honor 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:03.760 to be in the Black College Football Hall of Fame. 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.359 As I say to my friends, I you know, I 0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:09.720 have to make up stuff. I go, I'm in the 0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:13.080 NFL Hall of Fame. I just came through the kitchen. 0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:20.680 Well guess what part of this presentation that I learned? 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:24.120 And Everson knows this. So the Black College Football Hall 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:28.760 of Fames in Atlanta, but they're moving it to Canton, Ohio. 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:32.120 It's going to be a part of the Pro Football 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:35.120 Hall of Fame campus area and they're doing it there. 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:38.960 So you've you've moved through the kitchen. They've they've already moved. 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:42.960 They already have a display in there. Yeah. Right. And 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:46.359