1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Ron and Nanian got a new car in the driveway. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Do you do you like it? You enjoy driving? It? Is? It? 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Is it everything to you? You know? Is it? Oh 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: my gosh, I sit in this car. I'm going to 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: keep this car forever. One lit this so much. I'm 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: really going to keep this one a long time. I'm 7 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: not gonna happen, she said, listen through my dad. I 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: haven't coming back the car Doctor. What I would think 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: about doing is and not not to do lock tight. 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: I wouldn't use lock tight in this case because I 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: don't want to do that. But how about a dab 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: of liquid teflon, white white liquid tefflon. Welcome to the 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: radio home of Ron and Nanian the Car Doctor, since 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: this is where car owners the world overturned to for 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: their definitive opinion non automotive repair. If you're mechanics giving 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: you a busy signal, pick up the phone and call 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: in the garage. Orders are open, but I am here 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: to take your calls at eight five five five six 19 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: and now running. Did you have a good week? I did. 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,639 Speaker 1: I had a great week, great week of fix some cars, 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: eating turkey, talking to Tom. That's sort of like the 22 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: same thing Turkey Turkey. No, I won't pick on Tom today. 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: I love Tom to watch. Tom's the best. Um, I 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: always say it. Tom could get me on the air 25 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: with a juice cannon a string in the middle of 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: the Sahara desert, um and then he cut the cords 27 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: so I couldn't talk, you couldn't hear me. But either way, 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: we need Tom. I was gonna say, you just don't 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: forget I control your microphone. That's right, Tom. Tom is 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: the master of the microphone. So we have to be 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,279 Speaker 1: nice to Tom. So do you have a nice Turkey day? Tom? Uh? Yeah, 32 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: I could barely fit down the stairs to get down 33 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: here to do the show. But yeah, well you know 34 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: it's so it's you gotta be careful. But that's um, 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: that's that's this time of year, right, the holidays. So 36 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: I am. I thought this week, this hour would be 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: a good time to catch up. Our next guest really 38 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: needs no introduction. We've had Mark Mills here before and 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: he's just so much fun to listen to. And it's 40 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: just here's a guy who just makes so much sense 41 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: about the e V future, and uh, you know, I 42 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: can't say enough about him with enough alcolades either, we'd 43 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: spend the hour just talking about that. So let's not 44 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: waste any time. Let's bring aboard Mark Mills, the Manhattan Institute, 45 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: our favorite physicist. How are you today? Mark? That's a 46 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: rousing introduction. Thank you, gracious, thank you. Well you listen. 47 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: I sit and I and every once in a while 48 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: you seem to be getting well, not every once in 49 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: a while, but I noticed you seem to be getting 50 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: interviewed more and more. I've seen some of the stuff 51 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: with John Stossel of late, I've seen some of the 52 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: other things that you're doing, and more and more people 53 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: are starting to quote you, and it gives me hope, 54 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: like are they starting to wake up? I? You know, 55 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: here we are a year later, right we we originally 56 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: talked a year ago, and the ev future that's being 57 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: predicted and planned and you know, sold to us just 58 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: keeps on rolling down the road. Um, you know, how 59 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: different is it than in a year ago? Mark? It's 60 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: gonna keep rolling a lot of money and a lot 61 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: of money here, a lot of a lot of dreams 62 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: and aspirations. But you know, as I've said before, and 63 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: we all know, there's going to be lots more electric 64 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: vehicles in the near future, and there should be there 65 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: should be lots more. That's that's not what I'm disputing, obviously, 66 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: and when I when I'm talking right about this stuff, 67 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: it's it's the claim that evs are going to take 68 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: over the entire automotive market and quickly, and they're going 69 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: to get cheaper, and they're inherently better, and you know, 70 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: all the whole the whole narrative, which is very different 71 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: than it's a great option. It's a great model for 72 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: a car. There's a lot of people will find it 73 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: extremely useful, but it's not gonna do the things that 74 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: everybody's started claiming in the general. Uh. I guess you 75 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: could call it mania to think that the electric vehicle 76 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: is equivalent of the invention of the car in the 77 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: first place, that it's like going from the horse and 78 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: buggy to the auto age. We're transforming the very basis 79 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: of transportation. And as you know, I use the ham 80 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: handed analogy that that n evy is the equivalent in 81 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century of saying that you've discovered a 82 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: new way to feed a horse, and so your horse 83 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: and buggy is going to be superior to the other 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: guy's horse and buggy both horses, and changing what we 85 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: feed a car's meaningful, absolutely meaningful, but it's not a 86 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: revolution from a viewpoint of our economy, and it's probably 87 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: not going to work out quite the way people imagined, 88 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: either economically or to you know, politically. But that's what 89 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: I've been writing about a lot and talking about because 90 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: I think it's important. I think we're making some very 91 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: big mistakes and some very bad capital allocations that will 92 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: be expensive. And in fact, since we lived now in 93 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: an age of inflation, we weren't in the age of 94 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: inflation in a year ago. People that think we ever 95 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: see inflation again, I could say, if we we're talking economics, 96 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: since an easy costs more than a regular car, and 97 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: we know that because it's still a case by a lot, 98 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: and since the EV does the same thing as a 99 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: regular car, this is the very definition of inflation. You 100 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: spend the more to get the same output, the same thing, 101 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: the same product, the same mile driving. That's inflationary. So 102 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: you know, subsidizing evs, this is fueling inflation. Frankly interesting, 103 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: you know, it is a matter of economics, right, General 104 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,559 Speaker 1: motors this week came out there was an article about 105 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: them that they claim they're going to stop burning cash 106 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: on electric vehicles. By that, you know, I'll take the bet. 107 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: It's not very far away, you know, Listen, I just 108 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: I just report the news. I don't make it up. 109 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: I just you know I read that half years Yeah, 110 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 1: I yeah, I said, how you know? In the article 111 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: goes on to say the company, which is the largest 112 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: automaker in North America, outlined the plan to achieve this 113 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: goal to investors at a splash the event in Manhattan. 114 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: GM said it will sell one million ev is annually 115 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: starting Well, well, I think they might. They might even 116 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: have a hard time manufacturing a million a million a year, 117 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: never never mnd selling them. So you gotta have willing 118 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: buyers wanting to buy them. So I did. I read 119 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: the same articles fascinating the two things that they said 120 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: they're gonna, uh that are going to happen to allow 121 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: them to uh not lose money. No, no, not here 122 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: that they're admitting they're losing money today building and selling. 123 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: So there's there's an important admission there. So not only 124 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: is are the e is more expensive than theple inflationary, 125 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: but the companies that make them are losing money. So 126 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: this is a here's a here's a formula for an 127 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: industrialization of an economy to make things more expensive that 128 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: are important, and that's how the company is making them 129 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 1: lose money. Good plan, it makes It makes no sense. 130 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: And yet you know, it's sort of like we're designing 131 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: submarines with screen doors and saying, yeah, you'll just get 132 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: a little wet. You know, there's there's no launchic here. 133 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: Well read it and alliance. Other than the fact they're 134 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: admitting there losing money now is they're pointing out that 135 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: they expect electric vehicles and batteries to get cheaper very soon. 136 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: That's that's a discussion to have. That's an expectation which 137 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: is profoundly wishful thinking. But that's something that is a 138 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: little more subtle. But the second part that they said 139 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: was that they were particularly happy about the subsidies that 140 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: the government is now going to give um curacy of 141 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: tax payers, but subsidies. And now you know, silly me, 142 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: I thought that politicians gave us subsidies to reduce the 143 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: cost of car we're gonna buy it's more expensive. But no, apparently, 144 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: UM general always just telling us, thank you very much, 145 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: we'll take that money. It'll make it possible for us 146 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: and their words to raise the price of the car 147 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: because we're losing money. The whole, the whole logic of 148 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: subsidies was supposed to be to make the cars cheaper, 149 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: not the hand money to General Motors. But isn't the 150 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: point of all this well, okay, let's let's back up 151 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: a second. General Motors is losing money. Where is it 152 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: written that we have to underwrite the creation or the 153 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: marketing of the electric vehicle? Is the American public or 154 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: you know the world? I mean, aren't we pouring money 155 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: down to dry well? As the expression used to be, 156 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: we are, Well, we all know what the approximate claim 157 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: here is the reason for all of this, and it's 158 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: the claim that electric vehicles are quote zero missions vehicles 159 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: and buy emissions. They don't mean nitrogen oxides and carbon 160 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: oxide um and so that they mean carbon dioxide. That's 161 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: the principle motivation, in fact, the entire motivation behind the 162 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: subsidies and the mandates. And you know the California is 163 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: saying you can't buy internal combustion engines. It's all about 164 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: carbon dioxide. That's what they mean by a zero missions vehicle. 165 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: So since that's the the animating purpose of the mandates 166 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: and the subsidies, it would seem to me it would 167 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: be useful to ask if that's true. I mean, set 168 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: aside the obvious that when you plug in any v 169 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: it's a charge it with something, and that does involve 170 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: burning fuel somewhere in America, almost everywhere in this country. 171 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,239 Speaker 1: But set that aside, because it doesn't have a tailpipe. 172 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: It's the CEO two question is not to use an 173 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: indelicate word, the question whether it does dramatically reduced CEO 174 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: two missions. Is that sort of fraudulent claim. It's a 175 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: fraudulent claim because the magnitudive materials and energy needed to 176 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,719 Speaker 1: mind all the metals needed to make these batteries battery. 177 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: To remind your listeners, who have you forgotten this from 178 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: our year ago description, the electric car battery wis about 179 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: a thousand pounds you have to dig up. You tig 180 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: up about five thousand pounds of rock and earth per 181 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: car battery to make the metals and metals you need 182 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: for that battery, which involves lots of big machinery, burning 183 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: lots of fuel and lots of chemicals and burn lots 184 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: of fuel a lot of processes of burnops of fuel 185 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: carbon dioxide. So when the electric har shows up on 186 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: your driveway before you plugged it in the first time 187 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: driven it one mile, it's already admitted a lot of 188 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: CEO two just somewhere else upstream, so much so that 189 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: and it looks like in put their own study on 190 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: this at their website, and God bless them for being honest, 191 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: so much so that in the calculation books I can 192 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: did for Europe, for the first sixty tho miles you drive, 193 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: looks like in the electric vehicle you're admitting more CEO two. 194 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: Then if you just drove the diesel suv that it's 195 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: trying to replace, that that doesn't make it zero missions. 196 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: And they do say if you drive in another thirty 197 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: thousand miles ninety it will result in a net reduction 198 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: and CEO two missions, but not talking zero. We're talking 199 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: a reduction of some number depending on how you charge it, 200 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: but not zero. And it's more expensive. It's just not cheaper, right, 201 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: So where does that. Let's do this. Let's pull over, 202 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: take a pause. You know my question was gonna be 203 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: our EVS greener, and I think you've got us in 204 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: the middle of it, so we'll pick it up on 205 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: the other side. I'm here with Mark Mills of the 206 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: Manhattan Institute. We're talking to VS today. I'm Ronny in 207 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: the car doctor. We'll both be back right after this. 208 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: Don't go away EO need advice on how to maintain 209 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: that classic g t O. Ron is the guy five 210 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: zero nine zero zero. Here's Ron. Welcome back, Ron Service. 211 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: We're here with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute talking 212 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: e VS this hour. Mark, so our evs greener? The 213 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: answer has to be no, Well they're they're greener in 214 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: some respects. It just depends on how you know this 215 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: lights is complicated. This is very annoying. Everybody wants simple answer, 216 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: but I don't have a tail type. We know this 217 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: not complicated. So that has some benefits if you're in 218 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: a dense urban area, and this is a significant benefit 219 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: to shifting emissions to areas remote whereas congestion and be 220 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: nice to have zero missions there metaging oxides in particular, 221 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, and carbon oxide, that would be nice. And 222 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: I think there's an extraordinarily good case for eases and 223 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: dance urban course. Frankly, the businesses aren't long um there's 224 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: all all kinds of benefits. So yeah, that's good. But 225 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: then if the question is different, do they have zero emissions, Well, no, 226 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: of course they don't. Think just a meeting stuff elsewhere 227 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: at a different time, somewhere in the life cycle, somewhere 228 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: in the lifestyle. Also, look, the battery charging, which has 229 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: been talked about a lot, is actually important, serious issue. 230 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: If you charge your car at certain times of the 231 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: day in certain parts of the country or the world, 232 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: you could be charging your battery with hyper power, zero mission. 233 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: You can be charging with nuclear power, depending where you live, 234 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: time of day. You can be charging with coal power. 235 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: If you're in China, which two thirds of its grids 236 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: coal fired, and you charge at night, it's essentially all coal. 237 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: It's a coal car. If you charge it in I 238 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: don't know, let's see the Northeast in the middle of 239 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: the day, it's probably gonna be natural gas on a 240 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: cloudy day because of the gas turbans. So knowing the 241 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: emissions that are associated with your particular driving behavior, it's 242 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: very complicated and not obvious. With with a gas line car. 243 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: The emissions from a gas in car, give or take 244 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: a little bit, are exactly the same whenever you run it, 245 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: wherever you drive it, whenever you fuel it, whatever part 246 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: of the planet you're on. The emissions are just almost 247 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: without exception, identical, no matter where you are, what you're doing, 248 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: so we know exactly what they are. An electric vehicle, 249 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: we don't know. And if we wanted to say, look, 250 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: we'd only want you to charge your car with lower 251 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: zero missions electricity. Okay, fair enough. So I could use 252 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: GPS locators, I can use the software and the internet 253 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: in your car and make it so that you would 254 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: not be able to charge your car when it's not 255 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: what's not permitted, because you'd be charging with coal or 256 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: natural gas or with oil I wish, but because you 257 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: don't want whatever, this would be a very inconvenient car. 258 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: But you could, through that methodology, guarantee that the vehicles 259 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: are being least charged with low emission or zero mission electricity, 260 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: but that this is the polar opposite of a general 261 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: utility useful vehicle. If I'm constrained about when I can 262 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: feel it. Uh. And of course, as a practical matter, 263 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: what everybody does is they do average calculations. They look 264 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: at the average electric electricity, the average kill all at 265 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: hour United States or Europe, and say if you use 266 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: the average kill all at hour U, then the average 267 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: emissions associated with the grid. Okay, in America, that means 268 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: on average two thirds of the electricity going to like 269 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: the cars and burning coal and natural gas mosckily what 270 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: it is to dirt and on average, so you're you're 271 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: burning coal and natural gas. In Germany right now it's 272 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: more than two thirds because there increased the colburn courtesy 273 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: of Mr Putin, and they burn out to natural gas, 274 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: especially at night. So these things are important. It's disingenuous 275 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: to say there's zero missions, and it's I think it's 276 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of a bait and switch, right to 277 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: tell consumers that you have a low mission vehicle, but 278 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: we're going to tell you when you're allowed to charge. 279 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: And never mind the obvious Shade and Troy that when 280 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, within two days of Governor knew something saying 281 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: he was going to ban internal combustion engines, I think, 282 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: what's two days later he had to tell people today 283 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: right a very time that they couldn't charge your electric 284 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: cars because there was a power shortage of the heatwave 285 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: in the summer. Well, okay, that's that's shade and Floyd. 286 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: But but it's also a reality that storing electricity and 287 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: charging cars it's gonna be much more complicated than scoring 288 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: gasoline and tanks in the ground filling up regular cars. 289 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: Well yeah, and then when does you know, when does 290 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: the when does the insanity stop? I mean, when do 291 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: we stop and look at this and go, Okay, we're predicting, 292 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this, We're gonna do this, We're gonna 293 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: you know. I asked an electric vehicle loona the other day. 294 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: I asked him, do you really think you're contributing to 295 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: a cleaner environment? They said absolutely. And my question to 296 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: them was where do you think the electricity comes from? 297 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: And she pointed to the wall. She says, it comes 298 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: out of that outlet. Yeah, but that has to come 299 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: from somewhere. It comes from the electric company. They don't 300 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: think beyond I think I think there are there are 301 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: a certain constituency of people who don't think beyond the 302 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: halpless person you've talked to. And then there are people 303 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: who do think beyond it to say, oh no, I'm 304 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: I'm promoting wind and solar and I'm going to make 305 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: a choice to buy more, you know, wind powered electricity, 306 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: you know, like I have the option. So people who 307 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: think beyond it are saying those things. Okay, fair enough, 308 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: Except my point is that the bigger issue on the 309 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: whole sort of fuel cycle, the whole supply chain, is 310 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: that we know where gasol incomes on. You know, oil ground, 311 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: get oil, you refine it. We know a lot about 312 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: the environmental impacts of that, and we regulate the measure them, 313 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: wanted them, you know, with a great precision. With those 314 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: environmental costs are but the battery. To make the battery, 315 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: we have to mine giga tons of rock around the 316 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: planets make all these batteries. And it's all over the place, 317 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: and we don't know exactly where. Sometimes it's in the 318 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: Democratic Republic of Congo, and there's an Oxymoronoya TiVo for 319 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: a country. It's in China, it's in Argentina and Chile, 320 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: some of my homeland, Canada. In mind stuff. We don't 321 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: mind stuff as much anymore in America because we don't 322 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: like mining guests. But the mining activities are hidden, we 323 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 1: don't think about them. But it's just like a gasling car. 324 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: You have to drill stuff, get oil. To define it. 325 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: Big gasoline, you have to drill and dig holes in 326 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: the ground. Big machines. You take the rocks. Crushing with 327 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: big machines, will find the rocks to the chemicals that 328 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: dissolve the rocks to chemically separate the minerals. Then you 329 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: make a mineral compound, you know, lithium carbon oblciated chemicals 330 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: put in the battery. Then you make pure copper at 331 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: manganese at nicol, and you assemble a half ton fuel 332 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: tank to make a battery. When all those chemicals, when 333 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: all that come up activity and and all that has 334 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: to come from mining. And there's a mining issue we're 335 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: gonna talk about when we get back. I'm running any 336 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: of the Car Doctor here with Mark Mills, will both 337 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: return right after this. Don't go away constrance us lolcome back. 338 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: We're on name of the Car Doctor here with Mark 339 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: Mills and Manhattan Institute talking E vs. This hour. Mark. 340 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: So you know, we were talking about how the batteries 341 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: get made, and you know, the mining operations and where 342 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: the materials come from and the hours and how much 343 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: rock and so on and so forth. But there's something 344 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: else to the mining issue. The New York Times ride 345 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: an article June of this year, that talked about the 346 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: fact that a lot of the minds, well they're not here, 347 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: right because you can't you can't set up these minds 348 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: here in America, so you know, for regulations and protection 349 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: to the environment, as I understand it, Correct me if 350 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: I'm wrong. And a lot of them, a lot of 351 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: the minds are everywhere else, and they're in some not 352 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: so nice places in the way that they recruit their 353 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,239 Speaker 1: their workers, right, yeah, and this so this, yeah, you're 354 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: absolutely right. There's three three problems that they begin with 355 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: the simple fact the United States depends on imports of 356 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: about a dozen key minerals, and we import more than 357 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: half of another dozen or cell so we're we are 358 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: big importers already. And of the refined metals and minerals 359 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: that refined in a form useful for batteries are frankly 360 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: useful for solar power, but let's just talk a reflected cars. 361 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: The refining of these metals and minerals is utterly dominated 362 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: by China. China's got a marketplace dominance, and they're finding 363 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: battery metals and materials that's roughly double opex dominance in 364 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: oil markets, so that a non trivial geopolitical issue. I 365 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: would just say one can have different opinions about importing stuff, 366 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: but building battery factors here doesn't change the fact that 367 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: we're importing the materials to make the batteries from which 368 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: is this administration has tried to say there's in a 369 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: six step by providing in sentence for the US to 370 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: do more of this. Let's assume the incentives work um 371 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: and they might or a time we have to change 372 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: regulations to your point and make it easier to open minds. 373 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: This illustration has done the opposite. In fact, this year 374 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: they've canceled um permits for three new minds, Nicol and 375 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: comprom minds in the United States that I've already gone 376 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: through permitting process and we're preparing duck spand or open. 377 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: They just cancel them out right the same time that 378 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: we are going to demand that there are more electric 379 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: vehicles which require more of exactly the same metals, and 380 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: these are common metals, by the way, we're not talking 381 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: about exotic stuff. Then then you have the other problem 382 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: put your finger on is we'll call it transparency or 383 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: equivalency of in book environmental and labor law behaviors. I 384 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: mean the new York Times lost and in post um 385 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: New Yorker, I mean, a lot of we'll call them 386 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: normally liberal politically liberal outlets have This is not I'm 387 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: saying this because it's not a political issue. The fact 388 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: of that minds in other countries don't follow our labor 389 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: laws or procedures and in fact call balt. Minds in 390 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: the Democratic Republic of Congo notoriously used child labor. In fact, 391 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: some estimates, according to the u n FUN estimates, a 392 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: third of the labor accorded with third of the labors 393 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: from children, mining by hand, carrying around you know, locks 394 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: and stuff in mind this is you know, we would 395 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: find that repugnant here. Most people would and once they 396 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: learned about and say, well, let's not use nick cop cobalt, 397 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: and you can't. You can't make batteries with little of 398 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: no cobalt. And instead you have to use other medals, 399 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, like nickel or other other medals, but you 400 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: always have to use with them. And every one of 401 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: these cases, you're in countries where we have minimal control 402 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: or none and maybe more importantly, a very little visibility 403 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: what's really going on. Sometimes reporters will go and find 404 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: out and the black shocked. But it's you know, it's 405 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: what can we say, it's it's it's profoundly not to 406 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: naive to think that if we discover we don't like that, 407 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: that we could change those facts in time frames that 408 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: are meaningful. It will take a decade to two decades 409 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: to open sufficient amount of new mining, and we're finding 410 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: capacity in the United States to replace what we're going 411 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: to be importing to build the kinds of battery factories 412 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: that are now being imagined. So we're to fund a 413 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: huge battery factories that will import billions of dollars and 414 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: materials and export jobs to make those materials, and if 415 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: we're concerned about the environment, export the environmental challenges associated 416 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: with getting those materials. So where what you're telling us 417 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: is where we're becoming more energy dependent on a foreign 418 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: nation all over again. We're not instead of being in 419 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: the Middle in the Middle in in you know, in 420 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: the Middle East and Saudi Arabia and so forth, we're 421 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: now going to China. China is going to hold our 422 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: energy strings, so to speak. But that's well, that's exactly right. 423 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: So we have we have um even though there's been 424 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: a lot of rhetoric about the self declared obsession of 425 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: this administration to you know, get rid of American oil 426 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: and gas production. We still produce, uh the largest share 427 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: of the world's oil and gas, and we sold our 428 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: big producer or lesson we were pre lockdowns. We're still 429 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: the big the big kahuna, and we could be much bigger. 430 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: And we export oil and natural gas and refined products. 431 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: But yes, on the battery mineral stuff, where a net 432 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: importer will be, we will be for a long time. 433 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: And China made a very deliberate decision, it wasn't done 434 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: in secret for the last couple of decades to become 435 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: the OPEC of battery minerals. And they succeeded. Uh No, 436 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, from their perspective, that's a pretty good trade 437 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: because they're very dependent on imports of natural gas and 438 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: gasoline and oil, and that will be for a long time. 439 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: It turns out, here's the really It turns out it's 440 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: obviously a lot harder to produce pufficient quantities of oil 441 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: natural gas, and it is to produce exist quantities of 442 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: minerals make batteries because they've chosen the easy to ask. 443 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: But we've made it hard here by virtue of the 444 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: regulatory environment that exists. So are are we America, the 445 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: United States? Are we the ones making the big push 446 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: for e v s and the rest of the world 447 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: is kind of watching? I mean, is the same amount 448 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: of effort being applied in Europe and China? You know, 449 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: around the world or you know who's the leader in 450 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: the the attempt? Wow, Um, we're not the first where 451 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: I think there's now at ten countries, Germany and France 452 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: and you know, a bunch of others proclaimed that they're 453 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: going to ban the the sale of internal combustion engines 454 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: by twenty five or some some day. China is not 455 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: doing that, by the way, China is doing quite the opposite. 456 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: They're increasing the use of regular cars and evs or 457 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: increasing the use of call. They're doing everything, and basically 458 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: they're using both for transportation and for energy production. That 459 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: old added all the above doing everything. So we're not 460 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: we're not, We're not alone in the pursuit of the mania. 461 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: But I guess I guess that's what area we could 462 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: be a leader in. Every wanted to be a leader 463 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: like that, But it won't end well because it's not 464 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: going to lead to all the cars being converted and 465 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: lead to very expensive auomobiles and very expensive used cars 466 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: because people will be stuck when they're used cars are 467 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: very expensive maintenance. You won't have the option uh of 468 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: switching out because if we banned the sale of an 469 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: internal combustion engine, you'll have to keep it old one 470 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: for a long time. Tell you what, Mark, let's pull over. 471 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: When we come back. I want to talk about well 472 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: charging stations. I read a recent article about the security 473 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: concerns for women at charging stations. If you have some 474 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: thoughts on that, I'd like you to speak to that, 475 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: and just in general, you know, the future of charging 476 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: stations where we are now and where you think will 477 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: be in five years in terms of how fast and 478 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: how much and accessibility. So sit tight. We're here with 479 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute talking EVS. I'm Rondini 480 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: in the car Doctor. We'll both be back right after this. 481 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: Don't go away, welcome back. It's an electric hour here 482 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: on the car Doctor. We're talking EVIS with Mark Mills 483 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: of the Manhattan Institute. Mark, you know, yeah, electrified hour, 484 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: an electrified hour, there you go, um, you know, and 485 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: we could talk about e VS for for there's just 486 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: so many angles and so many things to discuss, But 487 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: I want to hit the point of charging stations. You 488 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: testified this year in front of Congress. They had asked 489 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: you some questions about charging station issues, and you know, 490 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: out in the out in the sticks as we as 491 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: we refer to it sometimes in remote areas, you know, 492 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: but now there's an obvious as a safety and security 493 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: concerned charging stations for women. Now that's starting to you know, 494 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: poke its head up. And you know, obviously a woman 495 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: pulls into a charging place eleven o'clock at night, she 496 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: has to sit there how long to charge that vehicle? 497 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: On average? Half hour forty minutes? Yeah, half half half 498 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: hour forty minutes. So this, this is the essence of 499 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: the challenge with the current technology. It's not like we 500 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: can't find something magical someday in the future. But the 501 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: reality is we're gonna be building and telling what we 502 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: know how to build today. So that is, you know, 503 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: if you charge your car at home in your garage, 504 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: which is perfectly fine for people with garages just a big, 505 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: big piece of population, it's just not the majority. Um 506 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: it charges overnight on a GET two twenty outlet, you know, 507 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: six eight hours depends on the car, the battery side, 508 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Maybe ten hours sometimes let's let's 509 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: just say six hours. The superchargers, which we hear a 510 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: lot about what you put a filling station because you 511 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: can't sit there for six hours, are extremely high vold. 512 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: It's very powerful, uh you know, three volts four h 513 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: summer six or eight hundred thousand volt chargers, and they 514 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: can charge the battery faster thirty or forty minutes. But 515 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: is you know, if anybody who's got the gasolene station knows, 516 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: get your watch out in time how long it takes 517 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: to fill your gas tank up. If you know you're 518 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: not driving a tandem double you know everyone fifty, but 519 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: you know it's five minutes, four minutes still a gastine 520 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: tank up right beginning to the end. And six minutes maybe, 521 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: so you're not talking about nearly a tenfold increase. You're 522 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: there for half an hour. That has a set of 523 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: implications which are pretty important non trivial. Are the hazards 524 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: or risks associated with people by themselves standin there for 525 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: half of enough for five minutes, you're you know, you 526 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: become a target. This has already become an issue. I 527 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: guess you've got to make sure you got to any 528 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: V filling station with there's lots of people may reguards 529 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: of security. I don't know, but that that's a that's 530 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: an important social safety issue. The other problem thode that's 531 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: ignored is, you know, in economic parlance, people use the 532 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: word utility function. You know that just this fancy way 533 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: of saying convenient. But you want the same convenience, the 534 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: same utility function, and you go to gassing station. You 535 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: generally don't have to wait a long time. You're not 536 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: in the long lines. Typically absent episodic crises, uh, you know, 537 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: evacuations and stuff. You don't wait that long. Just don't 538 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: get the long as you might wait typically a few 539 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: minutes if at all, because there's enough gas pumps. Each 540 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: person takes four or five minutes, they're gone. If you've 541 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: got each person taking thirty minutes. You can do the 542 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: math here, it's not complicated. You need, let's say six 543 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: or seven times more pumps like the pumps in this case, 544 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: then you had gasling pumps to have the same convenience 545 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: to everybody at the saint peak times. So now I've 546 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: got to build gasoline stations that have enough room for 547 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: six times the quantity of pumping locations pretty much impossible 548 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: in urban areas and maybe a farm country. Sure you 549 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: can do that, but it takes land, takes space, and 550 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: each supercharger costs two to three times more than the 551 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: capital costs of a gasoline pump its electrically drilling mechanical pumps. 552 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: So you're now doing a capital expense. MA sure somebody's expense. 553 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: That's not just six times more, it's twelve times more. 554 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: And on top of that, when I'm putting in each 555 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: of those superchargers, is you know, half a mega lot 556 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: of power. It's astonishing amount of power. You know that 557 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: I put two dozen of those in one in one 558 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: location like a mini steel mill worth of electric demand 559 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: that requires a massive, expensive upgrades to the local electric 560 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: utility distribution loop, which you know somebody's gonna pay for that, ratepayers, somebody, 561 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: somebody got to pay for it. And if I put 562 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: that charging if if I put that charging station out 563 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: in a remote part of the country, I now have 564 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: to get that electricity to that remote part of the 565 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: country because that's where the land is for the charging 566 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: station to exist. Sure, I mean it's a Again, all 567 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: these things are not impossible to do. They just cost 568 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: money and take time, and they don't add they don't 569 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: add any convenience. Actually are taking convenience away. At my 570 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: point of my testimony before the House was they were 571 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: talking about trying to electrify rural transportation, and my observation 572 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: was the obvious, Well they have, they have the land, 573 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: they are for huge refueling stations. But to your point, 574 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: you have long distances, you have to upgrade all the 575 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: transmission distribution systems. And again, you know you're gonna go 576 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: to town. You live in a rural area and you've 577 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: got to charge up if you're gonna be waiting a 578 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: half an hour and not five minutes to refuel your vehicle. 579 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: Now there are some promising uh development where you can 580 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: imagine charging even faster. They be getting it down fifteen minutes. 581 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: Hold hold that thought, Mark, let me pull over. Take 582 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: this pause. When you come back, I'll let you do 583 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: that for the wrap up and UM, get ready, I 584 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: want to give a shameless plug for your book when 585 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: we come back to as well. I'm just warning you 586 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: so that you know, UM, get your thoughts in order. 587 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: We'll have a couple of minutes. I'm running any of 588 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: the Car Doctor here with Mark Mills. Will both return 589 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: right after this. Don't go away. Hey, we're back. We're 590 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: on any of the Car Doctor with Mark Mills of 591 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: Manhattan Institute. Mark, let me lay it on you like 592 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: this and in a minute and a half or less, 593 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: I'll make it as crazy as an all e V future. Um, 594 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: is there a bright spot in the road ahead? And 595 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: it's not an e V on fire? Is there is 596 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: there hope for any of this that this will actually work? 597 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: It'll work. It's just we're not gonna have as many 598 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: e d s as people think they'll be on the road. 599 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: There'll be lots would be kund a million, two or 600 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: a million in the world, and only got fourteen or 601 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: fifteen million today. It's a big deal. It's a lot, 602 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: but a billion five vehicles in the world. So it's 603 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's not going to change the world. It's 604 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: gonna be exciting and probably the winner in the end. 605 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's probably gonna still be Elon Muss because 606 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: he's locked up the supply chains with everybody else has 607 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: been githering around. It's very smart. It's good for him, 608 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: right and and even if all the even if all 609 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: the world were electric, we still have all those other 610 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: issues too to really deal with. So um, let's talk, well, 611 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: if if the world got five millions, it would only 612 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,719 Speaker 1: eliminate ten percent of world's oil demand. There you go, right, 613 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: and and with that we we still have the carbon dioxide, 614 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,239 Speaker 1: the greenhouse gas emissions issue. So the insanity continues. Tell 615 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: us about the book real quick, mark the Cloud Revolution? Right? Um? 616 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: You wrote this? This book is it talks about the 617 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: convergence of technologies over the next ten or fifteen years. 618 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: And the book sales going, well, yeah, they're going, well, 619 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's a there's stuff about evs and that, 620 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: but I'm much more interested in in things like advanced 621 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 1: materials for biocomputing and our healthcare medical diagnostics, about the clouds, 622 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: why it's called the cloud revolution, and the advance of 623 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: software and AI for manufacturing processes, and maybe the part 624 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: of the book I enjoyed writing the most is about robots, 625 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: the advance of true robot mobility, apomorphic robots. Even even 626 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: Elon musk Gott bless him, he's answering afraid to make 627 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: robots that will be assistance for human beings and as 628 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: he pointed out, and I wrote in my book, these 629 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: are amplifiers for human labor and human wealth and well being. 630 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: It's exciting. My book is very optimistic. I'm sobboringly optimistic. 631 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: Will get through a political travails and we'll we'll bloom again. 632 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: The subtitles of Roaring Twenties and I still need it. 633 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: Just maybe take it up a year or to to 634 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: get rolling right. It's just gonna be a while. On 635 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: the books available wheel Amazon and Barnes and Noble correct 636 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: all the user plays. Hey, Mark, thank you very much, man. 637 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: I always appreciate you're spending so much time. You're very generous, 638 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: and you have yourself a good holiday season. Our best 639 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: to you and yours, and we'll talk to you again 640 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: in the new year and we'll kind of take it 641 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: from there. I'm any in the car, doctor. I wish 642 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: all of you a good Turkey Day weekend, if that's possible. Recover. 643 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: We got work next week. Until then, good mechanics aren't expensive, 644 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: they're priceless. See you