WEBVTT - De-escalate & Incapacitate

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<v Speaker 1>So crime is up and you like the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>having a gun in your home or carrying a gun,

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<v Speaker 1>but you don't like all the aspects of the whole

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<v Speaker 1>gun thing. Ah, we got something for you, Armstrong and

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<v Speaker 1>Getty extra Large.

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<v Speaker 2>Because four hours simply.

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<v Speaker 3>This is Armstrong and Getty extra Large. You may have

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<v Speaker 3>heard us doing commercials for the Berna Launcher. It's a

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<v Speaker 3>self protection device very much like a gun, but it

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<v Speaker 3>won't kill somebody. It will repel them in a big hurry.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a terrific product, and we can get into some

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<v Speaker 3>of the particulars of it. But the reason we're doing

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<v Speaker 3>this podcast is in some of the behind the scenes

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<v Speaker 3>discussions with folks involved with Berna, We've had some really

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<v Speaker 3>really interesting chats about the Second Amendment in the use

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<v Speaker 3>of deadly force and the psychology of it, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>just really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>So, and I'm a gun owner, I'm pro Second Amendment.

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<v Speaker 1>I own several guns and everything like that, but there

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<v Speaker 1>are a lot of legal problems with bringing out the

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<v Speaker 1>gun if somebody brings into breaks into your home, whether

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<v Speaker 1>you like it or not.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, depending on where you live, especially. But we're joined

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<v Speaker 3>by Luan fam who's the chief revenue and marketing officer

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<v Speaker 3>for Berna and is really up on these issues. Lan,

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<v Speaker 3>How are you good?

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<v Speaker 2>How are you guys?

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<v Speaker 3>We're terrific. Thanks. So let's talk about, you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>advantages and disadvantages of deadly force as opposed to less

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<v Speaker 3>than deadly forced. Because I know you're an expert in this.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, you know so full transparency. I am also

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<v Speaker 2>a gun advocate, I am a gun practitioner. I support

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<v Speaker 2>the Second Amendment, but also believe in the strategic self

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<v Speaker 2>defense strategies that every American should take because, as you

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<v Speaker 2>as we believe, one bullet can ruin two lives and

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<v Speaker 2>in many states, and the laws are gray. And then

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<v Speaker 2>you over apply deadly force, you can find yourself in

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<v Speaker 2>hot water really quick. You risk your freedom, you risk

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<v Speaker 2>losing your assets, and you have to be extremely strategic

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<v Speaker 2>in how you approach the use of force when someone

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<v Speaker 2>is attacking you.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm laying in bed, for instance, I hear a noise,

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<v Speaker 1>then I hear you know, I get the idea somebody

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<v Speaker 1>is in my home. I grab my actual gun, I

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<v Speaker 1>go out there. You know, there's no shooting somebody. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like the old Western movies. I mean, there's

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<v Speaker 1>no like shooting. I'm gonna shoot them in the leg

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<v Speaker 1>and just wound them or whatever. I mean. I'm applying

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<v Speaker 1>deadly voice force if I pull the trigger and then

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<v Speaker 1>I and then I'm in all kinds of legal program problems,

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<v Speaker 1>even if they broke into my house.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then, as you guys stated earlier, it depends

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<v Speaker 2>on where you live. But in general, if you who

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<v Speaker 2>apply deadly force, there are so many different is that

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<v Speaker 2>faces the homeowner. Right if that person, that intruder is unarmed,

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<v Speaker 2>God forbid, if the intruder is friendly, you are responsible

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<v Speaker 2>for that bullet once you pull the trigger. So you

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<v Speaker 2>have to be extremely careful in how you approach the

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<v Speaker 2>threat or analyze the situation. I would come out of

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<v Speaker 2>my bedroom with my burna less lethal launcher packed with

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<v Speaker 2>not only kinetic AMMO but chemical irritants consisting of pure

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<v Speaker 2>gas and pepper, and then supported by my nine millimeter.

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<v Speaker 2>And so as you think about you know you're in bed,

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<v Speaker 2>you wake up, you don't have all of your faculties.

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<v Speaker 2>It probably come out of deep sleep, and starting with

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<v Speaker 2>less lethal from my perspective, allows you to get your

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<v Speaker 2>mind in order. And then hopefully address the threat using

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<v Speaker 2>less lethal force and essentially stopping that threat without having

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<v Speaker 2>to resort to what we call the nuclear mode where

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<v Speaker 2>you have to transition to your firearm. And well, it

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<v Speaker 2>was that way, so go ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>I was just going to say, that's one of the

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<v Speaker 3>more interesting conversations we've had. I remember when we first

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<v Speaker 3>chatted about how many people will have deadly force or nothing,

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<v Speaker 3>and when it comes down to that moment to pull

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<v Speaker 3>the trigger, they realize I can't take a life. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>just not made like that, and then they're defenseless.

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<v Speaker 2>That's correct, And what firearms owners, I think there's a

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<v Speaker 2>phenomenon of trigger hesitancy is extremely real, and you are

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<v Speaker 2>facing that situation and you pull your weapon with the

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<v Speaker 2>intention to fire it. It's how we're taught that a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of things run through your head, and lots of

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<v Speaker 2>it is you know, dealing Can I take a life?

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<v Speaker 2>And I opening a box of complexities that will require

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<v Speaker 2>legal representation and law enforcement and then potentially jail. So

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<v Speaker 2>when these things rush your head, you will hesitate, and

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<v Speaker 2>when you hesitate, it becomes very dangerous situations for you.

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<v Speaker 2>So what our products provide its users is it eliminates trigger.

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<v Speaker 2>Heasmans to be because you know that you're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to take a life, and you're going to de escalate

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<v Speaker 2>the threat by incapacitating the attacker for thirty to forty minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>And should you accidentally shoot a friendly or someone is

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<v Speaker 2>in your house that you've forgotten, you invited them, they

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<v Speaker 2>have the key. You know, the results are much better

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<v Speaker 2>than if you applied lethal force in a situation where

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<v Speaker 2>a you know efernally is involved.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I've got I've got one of these burn

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<v Speaker 1>of guns. I've got it in my bedroom and it

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<v Speaker 1>looks and feels and loads just like a glock or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>And I go out into the living room with that,

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<v Speaker 1>and there is a bad guy there. What is the

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<v Speaker 1>burned gun going to do to them?

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<v Speaker 2>So, if you're shooting the chemical irritants consisting of tear

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<v Speaker 2>gas and pepper, upon impact, it will essentially neutralize your

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<v Speaker 2>sential nervous system. Your respiratory system will be attacked, your

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<v Speaker 2>lungs feel like they're collapsing. Any areas of exposed skin

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<v Speaker 2>will feel like it's on fire, your nose runs uncontrollably,

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<v Speaker 2>and you will not want to open your eyes because

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<v Speaker 2>it's that painful, and these effects last for thirty to

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<v Speaker 2>forty minutes, giving you the opportunity to escape. Moreover, if

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<v Speaker 2>you miss the chemical round will let's say you miss

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<v Speaker 2>the attacker and you hit the back wall, it will

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<v Speaker 2>create a six foot dispersion cloud that any person within

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<v Speaker 2>six feet will be affected. So even misshots can be

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<v Speaker 2>very effective, you know, within close quarters.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and it's not a single shot deal either. It

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<v Speaker 3>can squeeze off a couple. What about the so called

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<v Speaker 3>kinetic rounds that don't have the chemical aspect to them.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, the kinetic rounds consist of one a solid sixty

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<v Speaker 2>eight projectile made of high end polymer like very strong

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<v Speaker 2>plastic that is capable of breaking side autoglass from thirty

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<v Speaker 2>feet away. So when you get hit with this with

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<v Speaker 2>that round, it's going to feel like you've been shot,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's extremely painful. And so it really the escalates

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<v Speaker 2>the situation using the force less people forced, and in

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<v Speaker 2>combination the round could be. Using combination, you could have

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<v Speaker 2>kinetic rounds and chemical rounds in your magazine and in

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<v Speaker 2>our With our product, the launchers have an effective range

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<v Speaker 2>of sixty feet and on a CO two you can

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<v Speaker 2>shoot up to twenty rounds off an eight gram CO

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<v Speaker 2>two and the gun is or the launcher is as

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<v Speaker 2>they're ready, so are We have a proprietary technology that's

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<v Speaker 2>called pull Pierce where you can have the launcher loaded

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<v Speaker 2>with the CO two inside and they can be stored indefinitely.

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<v Speaker 2>So when there's a threat, you pull your weapon, you

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<v Speaker 2>pull the trigger. It punctures the CO two and sends

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<v Speaker 2>the first round instantaneously, so at the same time and

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<v Speaker 2>we have five round magazines, we have seven round magazines,

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<v Speaker 2>so that'll gives you that opportunity to have multiple shots

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<v Speaker 2>at a safe distance up to sixty feet and you

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<v Speaker 2>can address and assess the situation and determine if that

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<v Speaker 2>situation requires an escalation of force and use of force.

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<v Speaker 2>And most of the time that's not the case, but

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<v Speaker 2>if it is the case, then you have to do

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<v Speaker 2>what you have to do to protect yourself and your family.

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<v Speaker 1>So the Burner launcher again, which you know it's like

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<v Speaker 1>having a glock in your hand, but it's not a

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<v Speaker 1>glock in your hand. What are the law because like,

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<v Speaker 1>my guns are locked up, and I understand why I've

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<v Speaker 1>got kids in the house and everything like that. The laws,

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<v Speaker 1>the practicality of safety and everything like that. But I've

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<v Speaker 1>always thought, Man, if somebody breaks into my house, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>you know, half asleep like you're talking about. I got

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<v Speaker 1>to go get the key, then come unlock it, then

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<v Speaker 1>low and you know all the stuff, the steps I

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<v Speaker 1>gotta take. What are the laws around having this burn

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<v Speaker 1>a launcher handy or can I have it in my car?

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<v Speaker 1>Can I be out and about with it?

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great question. The burner launcher is legal in

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<v Speaker 2>all fifty states. It doesn't require a background check to

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<v Speaker 2>own one or to purchase one. That doesn't require a

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<v Speaker 2>permit to own one. It's not classified by the ATF

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<v Speaker 2>as a firearm. It's essentially an air launcher in the past.

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<v Speaker 2>To ATF is the client of ours and we service

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<v Speaker 2>many government agencies and hundreds and hundreds of police departments,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you can have it in your car. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>we would recommend that you check your local laws just

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<v Speaker 2>for to ensure that the product is faith to transport,

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<v Speaker 2>But in general we say, is lego mpp S fake,

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<v Speaker 2>You can have it in your car. I'm here in

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<v Speaker 2>Las Vegas. The car, my vehicle is considered an extension

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<v Speaker 2>of my home, so I can have that launcher in

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<v Speaker 2>the car. If I were to carry it around town,

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<v Speaker 2>i am concealed, I would need to have a concealed

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<v Speaker 2>carry permit. And again each city and its local laws

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<v Speaker 2>are different. So we just recommend ours to our customers

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<v Speaker 2>that check and then confirm and then know what the

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<v Speaker 2>usage and bandwidth is with regards to your home, that's

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<v Speaker 2>your domain. You could have it anywhere you want. You

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<v Speaker 2>have young children, we highly recommend that you treat our

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<v Speaker 2>product as a weapon, and it is a weapon, and

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<v Speaker 2>so make sure you have all these safety precautions in

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<v Speaker 2>place where young children don't have easy access to the

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<v Speaker 2>product or to the device and use it accordingly.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm glad you mentioned that hundreds of police agencies use this.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what sold me and made me a customer. Honestly,

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<v Speaker 3>I thought, wow, if they're using this as less than

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<v Speaker 3>lethal force, that's a good recommendation. So professionals and FEDS

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<v Speaker 3>are using it. Cops and also doctor Jen Stankis, who's

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<v Speaker 3>an emergency medicine physician, is a fan of the Berna launcher,

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<v Speaker 3>and doctor Jen joins us, now, how are you.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm doing great, Thanks for having me on the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's our pleasure. What convinced you that this was

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<v Speaker 3>a product for you?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, first I should give you a little bit more background,

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<v Speaker 4>former law enforcement, former military times too, including being a

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<v Speaker 4>JAG officer and part time military judge, and now as

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<v Speaker 4>an emergency physician. I also do a lot of expert

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<v Speaker 4>witness work and I've helped you defend people who have

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<v Speaker 4>quite frankly you self defense appropriately and still go to jail.

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<v Speaker 4>And for me, having been in law enforcement and think

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<v Speaker 4>about self defense a lot, constantly reviewing what my options are.

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<v Speaker 4>And I learned about this product maybe a couple of

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<v Speaker 4>years ago, and I had no idea what it was.

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<v Speaker 4>And when one of our neighbors, who's a huge pro

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<v Speaker 4>two a guy always has a can field carry with him,

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<v Speaker 4>told me that he was going to this, it really

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<v Speaker 4>perked my interest and I looked into it. And the

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<v Speaker 4>more I've learned, the more of a proponent I am

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<v Speaker 4>of it, and now being great friends with Luan and

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<v Speaker 4>I do scenario training with it at home. It's just

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<v Speaker 4>it's my go to self defense.

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<v Speaker 2>Tool.

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<v Speaker 3>I would say, so do I understand correctly? And I

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<v Speaker 3>think we all did, because you spoke quite plainly you

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<v Speaker 3>were in law enforcement, a JAG officer and now you're

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<v Speaker 3>an emergency physician.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>Well thanks for making us all feel so bad about ourselves. Wow,

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<v Speaker 3>what next astronomy we're going on?

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<v Speaker 1>Being an astronaut?

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<v Speaker 4>I would love to be an astronautor right now, I

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<v Speaker 4>just apply airplane.

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<v Speaker 3>So wow, fantastic. H So there you go, there you go,

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<v Speaker 3>and that expert testimony. Oh, that's got to be so

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<v Speaker 3>troubling when you see somebody who was in good conscience

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<v Speaker 3>trying to do the right things protect themselves and their family,

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<v Speaker 3>and all of a sudden their life is upended and

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<v Speaker 3>perhaps ruined.

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<v Speaker 4>It's actually quite terrifying to see. And as Luan pointed out,

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 4>it really depends on the jurisdiction where you are, from

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.640
<v Speaker 4>city to county to state, it really varies. And just

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 4>having the feeling safe, I think is one of the

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:55.079
<v Speaker 4>most important things for people in terms of being able

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.480
<v Speaker 4>to go about their business and having a tool that

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 4>really will protect you in every way legally and physically,

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.240
<v Speaker 4>I think is really important.

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:11.600
<v Speaker 3>Doctor Jenstankis Salon fam from Burna b y r NA

0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.320
<v Speaker 3>dot com. B y r NA dot com. Interesting stuff.

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for the time.

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I could really see this be in the future,

0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.400
<v Speaker 1>couldn't you. It fills in. I mean, it just it

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 1>checks so many boxes.

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:32.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah. And obviously if you've been following the news,

0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 3>you know that there's real interest in police not overusing force,

0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 3>which is great, it's proper in a free society. And

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.880
<v Speaker 3>the fact that they're by the hundreds of agencies turning

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 3>to this sort of thing. Yeah, it's big.

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<v Speaker 2>It's important.

0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:51.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, you don't know about trigger hesitancy until you're

0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 1>ever in that situation. But I think I would have

0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.520
<v Speaker 1>no trouble shooting somebody if I thought they were threat

0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I would hesitate on has this gone far enough that

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna end up in jail over That's that

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 1>I know. I would have hesitantzy about that.

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 3>Yes, at what point in this scenario is it justified

0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:18.560
<v Speaker 3>right as judged by twelve dopes in some trial?

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:23.560
<v Speaker 1>Maybe right anyway, And the fact that Berna, you know,

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.480
<v Speaker 1>I had that conversation with my son the other day,

0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.600
<v Speaker 1>the whole Uh, rather be judged by twelve than carried

0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.240
<v Speaker 1>by six? Well, you know, if it comes down to

0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.840
<v Speaker 1>carried by six, yeah, I would take that choice. But

0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.200
<v Speaker 1>being judged by twelve would be no walk in the

0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 1>park either.

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 3>No, no, indeed, better to send a purp to his

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 3>knees crying or squealing and running.

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Away, right, And you get out of there and call

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 1>the police, and you're not gonna, you know, have to

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 1>hire a lawyer and defend yourself as a murderer or something.

0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, right, interesting stuff.

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 3>Horrible