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Speaker 1: So crime is up and you like the idea of

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Speaker 1: having a gun in your home or carrying a gun,

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Speaker 1: but you don't like all the aspects of the whole

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Speaker 1: gun thing. Ah, we got something for you, Armstrong and

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Speaker 1: Getty extra Large.

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Speaker 2: Because four hours simply.

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Speaker 3: This is Armstrong and Getty extra Large. You may have

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Speaker 3: heard us doing commercials for the Berna Launcher. It's a

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Speaker 3: self protection device very much like a gun, but it

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Speaker 3: won't kill somebody. It will repel them in a big hurry.

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Speaker 3: It's a terrific product, and we can get into some

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Speaker 3: of the particulars of it. But the reason we're doing

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Speaker 3: this podcast is in some of the behind the scenes

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Speaker 3: discussions with folks involved with Berna, We've had some really

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Speaker 3: really interesting chats about the Second Amendment in the use

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Speaker 3: of deadly force and the psychology of it, and it's

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Speaker 3: just really interesting.

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Speaker 1: So, and I'm a gun owner, I'm pro Second Amendment.

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Speaker 1: I own several guns and everything like that, but there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of legal problems with bringing out the

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Speaker 1: gun if somebody brings into breaks into your home, whether

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Speaker 1: you like it or not.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, depending on where you live, especially. But we're joined

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Speaker 3: by Luan fam who's the chief revenue and marketing officer

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Speaker 3: for Berna and is really up on these issues. Lan,

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Speaker 3: How are you good?

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Speaker 2: How are you guys?

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Speaker 3: We're terrific. Thanks. So let's talk about, you know, the

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Speaker 3: advantages and disadvantages of deadly force as opposed to less

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Speaker 3: than deadly forced. Because I know you're an expert in this.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, you know so full transparency. I am also

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Speaker 2: a gun advocate, I am a gun practitioner. I support

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Speaker 2: the Second Amendment, but also believe in the strategic self

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Speaker 2: defense strategies that every American should take because, as you

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Speaker 2: as we believe, one bullet can ruin two lives and

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Speaker 2: in many states, and the laws are gray. And then

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Speaker 2: you over apply deadly force, you can find yourself in

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Speaker 2: hot water really quick. You risk your freedom, you risk

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Speaker 2: losing your assets, and you have to be extremely strategic

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Speaker 2: in how you approach the use of force when someone

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Speaker 2: is attacking you.

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Speaker 1: So I'm laying in bed, for instance, I hear a noise,

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Speaker 1: then I hear you know, I get the idea somebody

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Speaker 1: is in my home. I grab my actual gun, I

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Speaker 1: go out there. You know, there's no shooting somebody. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's not like the old Western movies. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: no like shooting. I'm gonna shoot them in the leg

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Speaker 1: and just wound them or whatever. I mean. I'm applying

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Speaker 1: deadly voice force if I pull the trigger and then

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Speaker 1: I and then I'm in all kinds of legal program problems,

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Speaker 1: even if they broke into my house.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and then, as you guys stated earlier, it depends

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Speaker 2: on where you live. But in general, if you who

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Speaker 2: apply deadly force, there are so many different is that

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Speaker 2: faces the homeowner. Right if that person, that intruder is unarmed,

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Speaker 2: God forbid, if the intruder is friendly, you are responsible

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Speaker 2: for that bullet once you pull the trigger. So you

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Speaker 2: have to be extremely careful in how you approach the

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Speaker 2: threat or analyze the situation. I would come out of

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Speaker 2: my bedroom with my burna less lethal launcher packed with

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Speaker 2: not only kinetic AMMO but chemical irritants consisting of pure

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Speaker 2: gas and pepper, and then supported by my nine millimeter.

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Speaker 2: And so as you think about you know you're in bed,

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Speaker 2: you wake up, you don't have all of your faculties.

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Speaker 2: It probably come out of deep sleep, and starting with

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Speaker 2: less lethal from my perspective, allows you to get your

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Speaker 2: mind in order. And then hopefully address the threat using

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Speaker 2: less lethal force and essentially stopping that threat without having

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Speaker 2: to resort to what we call the nuclear mode where

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Speaker 2: you have to transition to your firearm. And well, it

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Speaker 2: was that way, so go ahead.

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Speaker 3: I was just going to say, that's one of the

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Speaker 3: more interesting conversations we've had. I remember when we first

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Speaker 3: chatted about how many people will have deadly force or nothing,

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Speaker 3: and when it comes down to that moment to pull

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Speaker 3: the trigger, they realize I can't take a life. I'm

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Speaker 3: just not made like that, and then they're defenseless.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, And what firearms owners, I think there's a

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Speaker 2: phenomenon of trigger hesitancy is extremely real, and you are

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Speaker 2: facing that situation and you pull your weapon with the

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Speaker 2: intention to fire it. It's how we're taught that a

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Speaker 2: lot of things run through your head, and lots of

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Speaker 2: it is you know, dealing Can I take a life?

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Speaker 2: And I opening a box of complexities that will require

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Speaker 2: legal representation and law enforcement and then potentially jail. So

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Speaker 2: when these things rush your head, you will hesitate, and

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Speaker 2: when you hesitate, it becomes very dangerous situations for you.

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Speaker 2: So what our products provide its users is it eliminates trigger.

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Speaker 2: Heasmans to be because you know that you're not going

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Speaker 2: to take a life, and you're going to de escalate

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Speaker 2: the threat by incapacitating the attacker for thirty to forty minutes.

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Speaker 2: And should you accidentally shoot a friendly or someone is

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Speaker 2: in your house that you've forgotten, you invited them, they

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Speaker 2: have the key. You know, the results are much better

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Speaker 2: than if you applied lethal force in a situation where

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Speaker 2: a you know efernally is involved.

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Speaker 1: And so I've got I've got one of these burn

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Speaker 1: of guns. I've got it in my bedroom and it

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Speaker 1: looks and feels and loads just like a glock or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I go out into the living room with that,

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Speaker 1: and there is a bad guy there. What is the

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Speaker 1: burned gun going to do to them?

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Speaker 2: So, if you're shooting the chemical irritants consisting of tear

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Speaker 2: gas and pepper, upon impact, it will essentially neutralize your

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Speaker 2: sential nervous system. Your respiratory system will be attacked, your

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Speaker 2: lungs feel like they're collapsing. Any areas of exposed skin

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Speaker 2: will feel like it's on fire, your nose runs uncontrollably,

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Speaker 2: and you will not want to open your eyes because

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Speaker 2: it's that painful, and these effects last for thirty to

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Speaker 2: forty minutes, giving you the opportunity to escape. Moreover, if

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Speaker 2: you miss the chemical round will let's say you miss

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Speaker 2: the attacker and you hit the back wall, it will

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Speaker 2: create a six foot dispersion cloud that any person within

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Speaker 2: six feet will be affected. So even misshots can be

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Speaker 2: very effective, you know, within close quarters.

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Speaker 3: Well, and it's not a single shot deal either. It

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Speaker 3: can squeeze off a couple. What about the so called

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Speaker 3: kinetic rounds that don't have the chemical aspect to them.

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Speaker 2: Sure, the kinetic rounds consist of one a solid sixty

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Speaker 2: eight projectile made of high end polymer like very strong

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Speaker 2: plastic that is capable of breaking side autoglass from thirty

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Speaker 2: feet away. So when you get hit with this with

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Speaker 2: that round, it's going to feel like you've been shot,

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Speaker 2: and it's extremely painful. And so it really the escalates

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Speaker 2: the situation using the force less people forced, and in

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Speaker 2: combination the round could be. Using combination, you could have

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Speaker 2: kinetic rounds and chemical rounds in your magazine and in

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Speaker 2: our With our product, the launchers have an effective range

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Speaker 2: of sixty feet and on a CO two you can

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Speaker 2: shoot up to twenty rounds off an eight gram CO

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Speaker 2: two and the gun is or the launcher is as

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Speaker 2: they're ready, so are We have a proprietary technology that's

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Speaker 2: called pull Pierce where you can have the launcher loaded

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Speaker 2: with the CO two inside and they can be stored indefinitely.

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Speaker 2: So when there's a threat, you pull your weapon, you

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Speaker 2: pull the trigger. It punctures the CO two and sends

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Speaker 2: the first round instantaneously, so at the same time and

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Speaker 2: we have five round magazines, we have seven round magazines,

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Speaker 2: so that'll gives you that opportunity to have multiple shots

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Speaker 2: at a safe distance up to sixty feet and you

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Speaker 2: can address and assess the situation and determine if that

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Speaker 2: situation requires an escalation of force and use of force.

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Speaker 2: And most of the time that's not the case, but

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Speaker 2: if it is the case, then you have to do

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Speaker 2: what you have to do to protect yourself and your family.

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Speaker 1: So the Burner launcher again, which you know it's like

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Speaker 1: having a glock in your hand, but it's not a

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Speaker 1: glock in your hand. What are the law because like,

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Speaker 1: my guns are locked up, and I understand why I've

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Speaker 1: got kids in the house and everything like that. The laws,

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Speaker 1: the practicality of safety and everything like that. But I've

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Speaker 1: always thought, Man, if somebody breaks into my house, I'm

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Speaker 1: you know, half asleep like you're talking about. I got

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Speaker 1: to go get the key, then come unlock it, then

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Speaker 1: low and you know all the stuff, the steps I

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Speaker 1: gotta take. What are the laws around having this burn

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Speaker 1: a launcher handy or can I have it in my car?

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Speaker 1: Can I be out and about with it?

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Speaker 2: That's a great question. The burner launcher is legal in

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Speaker 2: all fifty states. It doesn't require a background check to

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Speaker 2: own one or to purchase one. That doesn't require a

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Speaker 2: permit to own one. It's not classified by the ATF

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Speaker 2: as a firearm. It's essentially an air launcher in the past.

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Speaker 2: To ATF is the client of ours and we service

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Speaker 2: many government agencies and hundreds and hundreds of police departments,

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Speaker 2: and so you can have it in your car. Again,

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Speaker 2: we would recommend that you check your local laws just

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Speaker 2: for to ensure that the product is faith to transport,

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Speaker 2: But in general we say, is lego mpp S fake,

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Speaker 2: You can have it in your car. I'm here in

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Speaker 2: Las Vegas. The car, my vehicle is considered an extension

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Speaker 2: of my home, so I can have that launcher in

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Speaker 2: the car. If I were to carry it around town,

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Speaker 2: i am concealed, I would need to have a concealed

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Speaker 2: carry permit. And again each city and its local laws

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Speaker 2: are different. So we just recommend ours to our customers

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Speaker 2: that check and then confirm and then know what the

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Speaker 2: usage and bandwidth is with regards to your home, that's

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Speaker 2: your domain. You could have it anywhere you want. You

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Speaker 2: have young children, we highly recommend that you treat our

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Speaker 2: product as a weapon, and it is a weapon, and

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Speaker 2: so make sure you have all these safety precautions in

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Speaker 2: place where young children don't have easy access to the

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Speaker 2: product or to the device and use it accordingly.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you mentioned that hundreds of police agencies use this.

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Speaker 3: That's what sold me and made me a customer. Honestly,

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Speaker 3: I thought, wow, if they're using this as less than

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Speaker 3: lethal force, that's a good recommendation. So professionals and FEDS

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Speaker 3: are using it. Cops and also doctor Jen Stankis, who's

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Speaker 3: an emergency medicine physician, is a fan of the Berna launcher,

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Speaker 3: and doctor Jen joins us, now, how are you.

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Speaker 4: I'm doing great, Thanks for having me on the show.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's our pleasure. What convinced you that this was

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Speaker 3: a product for you?

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Speaker 4: Well, first I should give you a little bit more background,

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Speaker 4: former law enforcement, former military times too, including being a

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Speaker 4: JAG officer and part time military judge, and now as

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Speaker 4: an emergency physician. I also do a lot of expert

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Speaker 4: witness work and I've helped you defend people who have

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Speaker 4: quite frankly you self defense appropriately and still go to jail.

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Speaker 4: And for me, having been in law enforcement and think

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Speaker 4: about self defense a lot, constantly reviewing what my options are.

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Speaker 4: And I learned about this product maybe a couple of

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Speaker 4: years ago, and I had no idea what it was.

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Speaker 4: And when one of our neighbors, who's a huge pro

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Speaker 4: two a guy always has a can field carry with him,

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Speaker 4: told me that he was going to this, it really

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Speaker 4: perked my interest and I looked into it. And the

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Speaker 4: more I've learned, the more of a proponent I am

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Speaker 4: of it, and now being great friends with Luan and

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Speaker 4: I do scenario training with it at home. It's just

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Speaker 4: it's my go to self defense.

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Speaker 2: Tool.

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Speaker 3: I would say, so do I understand correctly? And I

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Speaker 3: think we all did, because you spoke quite plainly you

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Speaker 3: were in law enforcement, a JAG officer and now you're

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Speaker 3: an emergency physician.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Well thanks for making us all feel so bad about ourselves. Wow,

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Speaker 3: what next astronomy we're going on?

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Speaker 1: Being an astronaut?

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Speaker 4: I would love to be an astronautor right now, I

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Speaker 4: just apply airplane.

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Speaker 3: So wow, fantastic. H So there you go, there you go,

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Speaker 3: and that expert testimony. Oh, that's got to be so

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Speaker 3: troubling when you see somebody who was in good conscience

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Speaker 3: trying to do the right things protect themselves and their family,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden their life is upended and

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Speaker 3: perhaps ruined.

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Speaker 4: It's actually quite terrifying to see. And as Luan pointed out,

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Speaker 4: it really depends on the jurisdiction where you are, from

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Speaker 4: city to county to state, it really varies. And just

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Speaker 4: having the feeling safe, I think is one of the

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Speaker 4: most important things for people in terms of being able

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Speaker 4: to go about their business and having a tool that

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Speaker 4: really will protect you in every way legally and physically,

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Speaker 4: I think is really important.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Jenstankis Salon fam from Burna b y r NA

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Speaker 3: dot com. B y r NA dot com. Interesting stuff.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I could really see this be in the future,

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Speaker 1: couldn't you. It fills in. I mean, it just it

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Speaker 1: checks so many boxes.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. And obviously if you've been following the news,

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Speaker 3: you know that there's real interest in police not overusing force,

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Speaker 3: which is great, it's proper in a free society. And

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Speaker 3: the fact that they're by the hundreds of agencies turning

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Speaker 3: to this sort of thing. Yeah, it's big.

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Speaker 2: It's important.

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Speaker 1: You know, you don't know about trigger hesitancy until you're

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Speaker 1: ever in that situation. But I think I would have

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Speaker 1: no trouble shooting somebody if I thought they were threat

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Speaker 1: I would hesitate on has this gone far enough that

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna end up in jail over That's that

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Speaker 1: I know. I would have hesitantzy about that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, at what point in this scenario is it justified

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Speaker 3: right as judged by twelve dopes in some trial?

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Speaker 1: Maybe right anyway, And the fact that Berna, you know,

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Speaker 1: I had that conversation with my son the other day,

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Speaker 1: the whole Uh, rather be judged by twelve than carried

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Speaker 1: by six? Well, you know, if it comes down to

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Speaker 1: carried by six, yeah, I would take that choice. But

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Speaker 1: being judged by twelve would be no walk in the

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Speaker 1: park either.

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Speaker 3: No, no, indeed, better to send a purp to his

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Speaker 3: knees crying or squealing and running.

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Speaker 1: Away, right, And you get out of there and call

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Speaker 1: the police, and you're not gonna, you know, have to

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Speaker 1: hire a lawyer and defend yourself as a murderer or something.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, right, interesting stuff.

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Speaker 3: Horrible