Speaker 1: Episode four seventy three, Become a better financial decision maker
Speaker 1: with Jessica Morehouse.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live your life here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and Happy New Year to all
Speaker 1: of our faithful listeners. If you are joining us for
Speaker 1: the first time, welcome, We are so excited to have
Speaker 1: you with us.
Speaker 3: This is an exciting time twenty twenty five, so much
Speaker 3: hope for the future, and we're kicking it off by
Speaker 3: helping you identify how you make financial decisions, ways that
Speaker 3: you can make better financial decisions. And really mostly some
Speaker 3: of the reasons is why we can find ourselves in
Speaker 3: situations where we're not making the best decisions with our money.
Speaker 3: And Jessica Morehouse is the kindest, most knowledgeable person to
Speaker 3: be talking with us about this. I had so many
Speaker 3: takeaways from it, so I'm excited to share it with
Speaker 3: you all.
Speaker 4: That was so fun.
Speaker 1: But first, this episode is brought to you by Your
Speaker 1: Last Chance. I know it's only January third, but hear
Speaker 1: me when I say this is your last chance to
Speaker 1: pre order our new book, Buy what you Love without
Speaker 1: Going Broke, and get access to our last live class
Speaker 1: on January twenty ninth, which is a guided walkthrough to
Speaker 1: create your twenty twenty five spending plan. This workshop is
Speaker 1: free to all pre orderers, but you have you only
Speaker 1: have until January seventh to get access to it. So
Speaker 1: head to buy what youlovebook dot com. Order from your
Speaker 1: favorite bookseller we love bookshop dot org, submit a screenshot
Speaker 1: of your receipt on that same page by what you
Speaker 1: loovebook dot com and you will get access to the
Speaker 1: work shop on January twenty ninth, and in the meantime
Speaker 1: you'll get access to the live workshop we just did
Speaker 1: on how to make a one year meal plan.
Speaker 4: We're going into the list.
Speaker 1: You only have back few more days to get access
Speaker 1: to those workshops. So by what you Love book.
Speaker 3: Dot com and it's considered pre order, but you will
Speaker 3: get it to your house this week if you do
Speaker 3: preorder it now, so I believe so, I mean.
Speaker 4: Depends on where you buy it from.
Speaker 1: But if you're interested in your financial decision making or
Speaker 1: your decision making in general, we have a lot of
Speaker 1: archive episodes for you. We have episode four sixty two,
Speaker 1: Willpower and self Control in Spending, Episode four thirty seven
Speaker 1: how to kick burnout to the curb with es Massey,
Speaker 1: and then episode four oh four, which I really like,
Speaker 1: Asking questions that lead to better spending decisions with Jeff Wetsler.
Speaker 1: He wrote a fantastic book on how to ask better questions,
Speaker 1: and that is the root of a lot of our decisions.
Speaker 1: We ask ourselves unhealthy questions that lead to untrue thoughts,
Speaker 1: and those thoughts lead to poor financial decisions or really
Speaker 1: any decisions in general. And that's really what Jessica is
Speaker 1: helping us with right now. She is a sought She
Speaker 1: is a sought after money expert and accredited financial counselor
Speaker 1: in Canada, so I know this is all going to
Speaker 1: be relevant to any country, but especially if you're in Canada.
Speaker 1: She hosts the More Money podcast and it is fantastic
Speaker 1: resource for anybody based in Canada. And her debut book
Speaker 1: is titled Everything But Money, The Hidden Barriers between You
Speaker 1: and Financial Freedom. And let's don't waste any time, Let's
Speaker 1: get into it.
Speaker 4: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Jessica, Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast.
Speaker 4: We are stoked to have you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: This is a really exciting conversation. I think whenever we
Speaker 3: can kind of get into more of the nuances and
Speaker 3: some of the ways that we think and behave around money,
Speaker 3: I think, well, we love it, our audience loves us.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 3: With that, Jessica, I wonder if you can kind of
Speaker 3: kick us off and talking about some of these smaller
Speaker 3: financial decisions, Like, we know that we make these big
Speaker 3: decisions about money occasionally, but what would you say are
Speaker 3: some of the smaller financial decisions that we make every
Speaker 3: day that we may or may not think about or
Speaker 3: realize is even tied to money.
Speaker 5: I'd say one thing is how we speak to ourselves
Speaker 5: about money. So we have we all have an intern dialogue,
Speaker 5: and we have one specifically when it comes to money.
Speaker 5: So whenever you're you know, you get your paycheck, or
Speaker 5: you're talking to friends or family about money, you're at
Speaker 5: the cash register, you've got an internal monologue. And most
Speaker 5: of the time is probably unless you're in an amazing
Speaker 5: financial space and you come from a place of security
Speaker 5: and everything nice, you're going to have a very negative
Speaker 5: relationship with money, and that will, you know, impact probably
Speaker 5: all of those day to day decisions like should I
Speaker 5: buy you know, organic or not? Oh, I can't afford organic,
Speaker 5: it's so expensive. And so I think a lot of
Speaker 5: those little things come down to how are we talking
Speaker 5: to ourselves about money? And I say this not as
Speaker 5: a judgment, because this is literally something that we all have,
Speaker 5: myself included. My internal dialogue when it comes to money
Speaker 5: is very negative. Even though I wrote a book on
Speaker 5: how to heal. It's a practice, so you have to
Speaker 5: practice at it to get better at it and be
Speaker 5: kinder to yourself. And it's easier said than done. But
Speaker 5: I'd say that's probably a place that most people would
Speaker 5: not really think to start, because you know, when you
Speaker 5: mentioned you know, what are little things we can do,
Speaker 5: you know, my mind goes, well, you know, just to
Speaker 5: buying that latte, da da da da da. Now it
Speaker 5: has nothing to do with like what you're purchasing or
Speaker 5: what you're actually doing with your money. I think a
Speaker 5: lot of it has to do with how do you feel?
Speaker 5: How does money make you feel? And then how is
Speaker 5: that driving any of your financial decisions, whether that's what
Speaker 5: am I going to get for lunch today? Or should
Speaker 5: I put money into my investments, or should I put
Speaker 5: it towards debt, or should I go for that, you know,
Speaker 5: promotion or a new job to make a little bit
Speaker 5: more money, or should I maybe I should just stay
Speaker 5: where I'm at because it's safe and secure and I
Speaker 5: don't want to rock the boat and things like that.
Speaker 5: Those are the things that have a you know, their
Speaker 5: little things have a huge impact on your financial future.
Speaker 3: The money story piece is so interesting to me, and
Speaker 3: even how you kind of highlighted the way that we
Speaker 3: might look at different financial decisions differently. It makes me
Speaker 3: you think about I've noticed more recently how I will
Speaker 3: place certain value on some things but not on others.
Speaker 3: Like I'll easily drop fifty five dollars on a dinner
Speaker 3: out and not really think about it. But if you
Speaker 3: were to tell me I've got to pay fifty five
Speaker 3: dollars for a single article of clothing.
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, that's so much money.
Speaker 3: Even the clothing should last way longer.
Speaker 1: That's to be easier, Like if you're just looking at numbers, yeah,
Speaker 1: which is why, like we talk so much about neutrality
Speaker 1: and looking at your spending because I mean, yes, that
Speaker 1: is something Jesse that speaks to me. Like I my
Speaker 1: whole life, and this is I think something just like
Speaker 1: really currently I'm I'm struggling with in this like current
Speaker 1: season is in my mind, I always say I don't
Speaker 1: make enough money. It doesn't matter how much money I make,
Speaker 1: or even more importantly, like how much my expenses are
Speaker 1: compared to what I'm earning in the current season. I
Speaker 1: always have the narrative I don't make enough money. And
Speaker 1: that mindset just naturally has nothing to do with spending,
Speaker 1: but it naturally permeates every spending decision I make because
Speaker 1: I don't make enough money for organic milk.
Speaker 4: I didn't realize it was the lightning round already.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 4: I'm just like vulnerable.
Speaker 5: What I'm like hearing is not just I don't make enough,
Speaker 5: is that I don't deserve that.
Speaker 4: Oh, I know, right, that's what I heard. I don't deserve, what.
Speaker 1: I think, and I think what I do deserve is
Speaker 1: very little, small treats. I deserve the latte. I deserve
Speaker 1: something small because of its smallness. And the big things.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I don't deserve them, but I would
Speaker 1: say I, quote unquote don't need them, which translates to
Speaker 1: the same same idea like it just need just sounds
Speaker 1: like better, more justifiable, but it really means like I
Speaker 1: think I don't deserve it, and.
Speaker 5: I think that's probably you know, there's based on probably
Speaker 5: so many things how you grew up, but also you know,
Speaker 5: like me, you entered the personal fiance world, there was
Speaker 5: a lot of big voices that said, hey, this is
Speaker 5: what you're supposed to do ABC if you want to
Speaker 5: be good with money, and a lot of it was
Speaker 5: the language like do you need it or do you
Speaker 5: want it? If it's a want, that's the connotation is
Speaker 5: that's bad need. Oh, well, that's important. This to necessity,
Speaker 5: that's okay to spend your money in that way. And
Speaker 5: so there's like this automatic if you want something, there's
Speaker 5: something wrong with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that results in all of it, like making
Speaker 1: these finance like these spending decisions and justifying it as
Speaker 1: a need even though it really is a want. And
Speaker 1: then we have these wants and we don't fulfill them
Speaker 1: because they seem superfluous and we feel guilt.
Speaker 3: Tea's well, there's also the issue of defining a need
Speaker 3: because yeah, we need food, clothing, shelter, but can the
Speaker 3: clothing be nice in quality and kind to the labor force,
Speaker 3: and can the food be tasty? And then you start
Speaker 3: to get into well that's going to cost for and
Speaker 3: then now is it considered a luxury? So it's really
Speaker 3: hard to even draw a clear line on those things.
Speaker 3: So it's clearly not even the best metric.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, it's funny one thing, you know, for example,
Speaker 5: there's always a way to be like yeah, but there's
Speaker 5: a way to do it cheaper for free. And I
Speaker 5: feel like that's also very ingrained in me that I
Speaker 5: have to be like, it's okay if I spend one
Speaker 5: more money on this thing that I want or need
Speaker 5: and can afford comfortably. For example, you know, for years
Speaker 5: when I was in my twenties, I was pretty you know,
Speaker 5: lower income, didn't make too much money, and so I
Speaker 5: made a lot of choices from that place of scarcery.
Speaker 4: I only have this amount of.
Speaker 5: Money, and you know, to work out, I do everything
Speaker 5: for free. Get like you know, tapes or you know, CDs,
Speaker 5: DVDs from the library or from a friend, and I'd
Speaker 5: burn them and I'd do them at home, or i'd
Speaker 5: go running outside anything that was like free or very cheap.
Speaker 5: And now cut to me my late thirties. I spend
Speaker 5: a couple hundred dollars a month on this group fitness
Speaker 5: program that is, you know, five minutes from my house.
Speaker 5: It's very community based. It makes me feel so happy
Speaker 5: and I actually go and actually work out and have
Speaker 5: a great time. It brings a lot of value and
Speaker 5: happiness into my life. But it took me a while
Speaker 5: to be like, it's okay that you spend this money
Speaker 5: on this thing, because the internal dialogue was but there's
Speaker 5: a way you can go to the gym and get
Speaker 5: a fifty dollars a month, you know, membership. Why are
Speaker 5: you spending this kind of money? Like who do you
Speaker 5: think you you know? And all those who do you
Speaker 5: think you are? And you're like that needs to go.
Speaker 5: That voice is not serving me. It is just making
Speaker 5: me feel bad and likely if I if I wasn't
Speaker 5: part of this fitness thing. This is the only thing
Speaker 5: I've stuck to you for almost two years and have
Speaker 5: actually seen, you know, physical results, me getting more muscle
Speaker 5: and again just like my mood is better compared to
Speaker 5: me trying to do it at home, and I just
Speaker 5: don't have the self motivation and stuff like that. So
Speaker 5: it's like, I don't know why we have these things. Well,
Speaker 5: I do know why we have these things, but why
Speaker 5: we continue to let these voices, these ideas of ourselves,
Speaker 5: these money stories we've built over these years, continue to
Speaker 5: drive us in a certain path where we think we're, oh, no,
Speaker 5: if I'm cheaper and just spend less, da da da,
Speaker 5: and I'm super frugal, then you know I'll be better.
Speaker 5: But it's like, you know, frugal isn't the same as cheapness,
Speaker 5: Like frugal is really I define it as spending within
Speaker 5: your means, but also specifically within your values. And so
Speaker 5: I think frugal is a positive thing because it's being
Speaker 5: intentional with your money. But I think sometimes we get
Speaker 5: caught in the trap of just like no, I shouldn't spend,
Speaker 5: should spendi shoind spend? And that's that comes from I mean,
Speaker 5: for me, that comes from my family, it comes from
Speaker 5: my ancestors.
Speaker 4: Historically we've been poor for hundreds of years.
Speaker 5: It comes from, you know, the money story that I
Speaker 5: internalized from things growing up, and then voices that I
Speaker 5: was drawn to as an adult learning about personal finance,
Speaker 5: probably because they were confirming the things that I already
Speaker 5: thought about myself. So I was drawn to some of
Speaker 5: those really kind of nasty voices that were shame based,
Speaker 5: and then I had to unlearn some of those really
Speaker 5: unhealthy habits and thoughts about myself in my thirties because
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, that's actually I would never talk to
Speaker 5: someone like that. So why am I talking to myself
Speaker 5: like that or letting that person talk to me like that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So you talk about these like voices that are teaching
Speaker 1: us personal finance. And one thing that I've always thought
Speaker 1: about when I hear people, specifically really people of affluence
Speaker 1: talking about it is there's good financial decisions and bad
Speaker 1: financial decisions. And in reality we always talk about, especially
Speaker 1: with spending decisions, but really any financial decision, whether it
Speaker 1: be debt or whatever, that the decisions themselves are neutral.
Speaker 4: There's no good or bad, but there.
Speaker 1: Are ones that are good to move you forward in
Speaker 1: that season and ones that may limit you in the
Speaker 1: season or in further seasons. So I like how you
Speaker 1: talk about financial decisions as being good, not good or bad,
Speaker 1: but like good versus poor. Can you like give us
Speaker 1: a little bit about how you define the markers of
Speaker 1: good versus poor financial decisions?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 5: There's ones that are like, this is a good one,
Speaker 5: like if you do this, you're going to see the
Speaker 5: benefits sometimes typically not for a while. And then there's
Speaker 5: ones that they're less good basically, but sometimes you need
Speaker 5: to make those decisions to either learn a lesson or
Speaker 5: you're just not in a headspace where you can do
Speaker 5: that really the best financial decision. Like you know, for example,
Speaker 5: people say, oh, you've got to start investing right away
Speaker 5: at eighteen, and I knew that when I was in
Speaker 5: my early when He's learning about this, I just couldn't
Speaker 5: do it. And I think part of that was because
Speaker 5: I didn't really have the investing knowledge I needed. But
Speaker 5: also under that, I did not think that I had
Speaker 5: the intelligence, or the confidence or just the skill set
Speaker 5: to actually do it. So really it was a confidence issue.
Speaker 5: Was it was something more internal, and so I just
Speaker 5: did not have the capacity to make a better dec
Speaker 5: If I could go back in time with the knowledge
Speaker 5: and confidence I have now, oh sure I would have
Speaker 5: started investing in index funds at eighteen, but I just
Speaker 5: didn't have the tools and the capacity at that point.
Speaker 5: So I don't think that's a bad financial decision. I
Speaker 5: still did pretty well. I lived within my means, I
Speaker 5: was a good saver. I did all these really good things.
Speaker 5: But could I have made a better decision? Sure? But
Speaker 5: I did the best I can. And that's one thing
Speaker 5: I always I learned this. It's something that stuck with
Speaker 5: me for years when I became a financial counselor was
Speaker 5: when you're working with someone, you've got to remember when
Speaker 5: they come to you where they're at. They're doing the
Speaker 5: best they actually can. Most people are doing the best
Speaker 5: they can. But maybe they could be doing better if
Speaker 5: they had all these other things skills, knowledge, you know, motivation,
Speaker 5: a support system, all these kind of elements, but you know,
Speaker 5: typically we don't have those yet. And so, yeah, could
Speaker 5: we be doing better, yes, But I think most of
Speaker 5: us are doing the best we can.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that that's such a good like way to
Speaker 1: think about coming into this new year in January. We
Speaker 1: are trying to almost like we're trying to better ourselves, right,
Speaker 1: And so often we think that to make big changes,
Speaker 1: to see big results, we need to make big, sweeping
Speaker 1: lifestyle changes, and so often, I mean that sets us
Speaker 1: up for failure every time, because not all of those
Speaker 1: lifestyle changes are available to you, and exactly they have
Speaker 1: to be built up. There's skills that have to be
Speaker 1: built up, there's curation of your environment that has to
Speaker 1: be built up, and we so take for granted these
Speaker 1: like smaller changes, like right up front and how important
Speaker 1: they are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm curious to hear from you, Jessica on
Speaker 3: some of the things that you think can prevent us
Speaker 3: from making good financial decisions. You've mentioned a couple of them,
Speaker 3: but I'm kind of curious, like, how might we know
Speaker 3: whether or not we're even making good financial I mean,
Speaker 3: you mentioned when you were younger, you kind of had
Speaker 3: the knowledge, but there were these other things holding you back.
Speaker 3: What might be some of those markers? What might prevent
Speaker 3: us from kind of moving forward here?
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: I mean that's, you know, ultimately the big chunk of
Speaker 5: my book, which is really helping you explore the hidden
Speaker 5: barriers in your own life to reaching whatever version of
Speaker 5: financial freedom means to you. And they come in many
Speaker 5: different forms. Some people have all of them, some people don't.
Speaker 5: But where we start is, of course your upbringing and
Speaker 5: the stories you told yourself or your parents told you,
Speaker 5: or that you witnessed and most of the time, especially
Speaker 5: if you come from a family where there was an
Speaker 5: extreme extreme poverty, extreme wealth, or just extreme views when
Speaker 5: it comes to money, you would either adopt those same habits, patterns, views,
Speaker 5: or you would go the opposite direction and rebel. And
Speaker 5: I see that all the time. Someone comes from poverty,
Speaker 5: they become a big spender because they were never allowed
Speaker 5: to spend. There was no snow money, and maybe their
Speaker 5: family was very restrictive and frugal, or the other side
Speaker 5: where they came from wealth and they had some negative
Speaker 5: feelings about what that meant, and so they lived, you know,
Speaker 5: became a minimalist, and so they rebelled against that. One
Speaker 5: of the biggest barriers is really figuring out where am
Speaker 5: I coming from and what story do I want to
Speaker 5: tell instead, because likely the story you're telling yourself right
Speaker 5: now is not serving you. So that's always where I
Speaker 5: like to start, is do that in kind of internal
Speaker 5: investigation with you, your childhood and kind of your upbringing.
Speaker 5: That will, you know, reveal a lot. And I did
Speaker 5: the exact same thing for it for myself. The other
Speaker 5: one that doesn't get discussed enough, but it's becoming a
Speaker 5: little bit more talked about is the idea of internal trauma,
Speaker 5: whether that is a lived trauma that you know came
Speaker 5: from childhood or you know, early development that has nothing
Speaker 5: to do with money but is impacting your finances, or
Speaker 5: it could be something specific to finance, such as you
Speaker 5: saw your dad go bankrupt and it really, you know,
Speaker 5: had a huge negative impact on the family that is
Speaker 5: going to have an effect on you when you're an adult,
Speaker 5: such as being a afraid of debt or I'm never
Speaker 5: you know, I'm never going to be in that situation,
Speaker 5: and so I'm going to live my life in this way.
Speaker 5: And so that's a big part of the book that
Speaker 5: I was really interested in exploring because I hadn't really
Speaker 5: read too much about that, and it was interesting also
Speaker 5: exploring my own traumatic experiences to see I did not
Speaker 5: realize that had this big impact on me, and that
Speaker 5: was that's been driving me for decades.
Speaker 4: Who knew?
Speaker 5: And so until you find out what's going on kind
Speaker 5: of under the hood, so to speak, you're going to
Speaker 5: continue a cycle you don't know how to get out of.
Speaker 5: And and speaking more about the trauma portion, how that
Speaker 5: can manifest is if you you know, had a life
Speaker 5: experience that was traumatic, and then there is certain triggers
Speaker 5: that exist in the real world, which could be as
Speaker 5: simple as you know, a face, a voice, a smell, sound,
Speaker 5: what have you. That trigger will then disregulate you emotionally,
Speaker 5: which means that you will then be in a situation
Speaker 5: of fight or flight or fawn or freeze. Basically, you're
Speaker 5: going to be in a state where you really shouldn't
Speaker 5: be making financial decisions, but sometimes you will. And when
Speaker 5: you come from a place of this emotional dysregulation where
Speaker 5: you're just you're acting on emotions instead of logic, You're
Speaker 5: going to be making some mistakes. You're going to be
Speaker 5: buying things that you shouldn't be buying. You're going to
Speaker 5: be giving away money you shouldn't be giving away. You're
Speaker 5: going to be making these choices that when you're back
Speaker 5: into a state of peace and calm and regulation, you're
Speaker 5: gonna be like, shoot, why did I do that? That
Speaker 5: is not helping me? And now now I'm in a
Speaker 5: worse space. And so one thing we talk about the
Speaker 5: book is recognizing those and of course I always suggest
Speaker 5: working with a professional therapist to kind of dig deep,
Speaker 5: but there's tools that you can do right away to
Speaker 5: when you recognize I feel, you know, in my body,
Speaker 5: I'm not my peaceful, calm self. I'm dysregulated. How do
Speaker 5: we get back, How do we get grounded again? How
Speaker 5: do we get back to that space where we could
Speaker 5: step back and be like, you know what, I'm not
Speaker 5: going to make that decision right now. I'm going to
Speaker 5: wait and then be in a better headspace to make
Speaker 5: that decision. Because when I look back at most of
Speaker 5: my you know, quote unquote not so great you know,
Speaker 5: or bad financial decisions is always coming from a place
Speaker 5: of emotion that had nothing to do with money. But
Speaker 5: I was triggered in some way, and then I did
Speaker 5: something with my money, and then I'm like, why did
Speaker 5: I do that?
Speaker 4: You know? Once I was in a better headspace.
Speaker 5: So that's I think a part that we need to
Speaker 5: really investigate, because what I've learned is most people don't
Speaker 5: think they have any trauma because trauma sounds very intense.
Speaker 5: It's like something really catastrophic happened to you. It can
Speaker 5: be as simple as were you bullied in school? A
Speaker 5: lot of people were. If you're carrying that with you
Speaker 5: and you haven't healed from that, I haven't worked through that,
Speaker 5: it is going to have an impact on you and
Speaker 5: you're fine chances going up growing up.
Speaker 4: It absolutely is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it impacts how you spend money because it's a
Speaker 1: lack of self esteem self confidence from that. And we
Speaker 1: see a lot of people spending on fitness, beauty, skincare,
Speaker 1: all of these things as a result of small traumas
Speaker 1: like that that are not directly connected to finances, and.
Speaker 5: You may not make that connection initially until you start
Speaker 5: doing that kind of introspection. I mean that was what
Speaker 5: I did while writing the book. Obviously I had and
Speaker 5: when I initially like pitched this book idea, I didn't
Speaker 5: think that I had as big of a personal connection
Speaker 5: to some of these topics as I'm like, oh, I'm
Speaker 5: going to write, you know, from a perspective of I'm
Speaker 5: doing the research and I'm going to you know, then
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, I have to go to therapy. I
Speaker 5: have to like, you know, do some digging for myself.
Speaker 5: And the things that I uncovered it literally changed my life.
Speaker 5: I know that sounds like, oh wow, it really really did,
Speaker 5: because I discovered about myself. There was why am I
Speaker 5: so obsessed with my like it's my career now?
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 5: I love talking about it, but sometimes it's not healthy.
Speaker 4: Why is that?
Speaker 5: And I discovered from myself, based off of, you know,
Speaker 5: some childhood experiences that I was using money as kind
Speaker 5: of a surrogate and what money, what came with money,
Speaker 5: such as you know, attention and some acknowledgment and things
Speaker 5: like that and career advancement. I was using that as
Speaker 5: a way to get love and attention that in certain
Speaker 5: circumstances growing up, I felt like I was lacking and
Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm almost forty and I'm still making choices
Speaker 5: based off of something from my childhood, Like, that's wild.
Speaker 5: I can't go into the next decade with that headspace.
Speaker 5: I need to do something about it. And I think
Speaker 5: a lot of people can relate to that. When they
Speaker 5: really think about They're like, oh right, it was this
Speaker 5: and this and this, and I've been holding onto those
Speaker 5: and I have not really gone, you know, done the
Speaker 5: work to figure out what's going on and how can
Speaker 5: I heal. So I'm going to keep on doing these
Speaker 5: patterns until you know, forever, until I figure out how
Speaker 5: to get out of him.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Same.
Speaker 1: I found while I was writing the book that I
Speaker 1: tied my financial success to growing up. I had a
Speaker 1: lot of booksmarts, but I wasn't super popular. I was nerdy,
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't super attractive in that crowd. So the
Speaker 1: only thing valuable about me was the success I had
Speaker 1: like academically, and I just transferred it to financial success
Speaker 1: in adulthood and I that was writing a book.
Speaker 4: Man, it'll yeah, you learn a lot about yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So let's talk about steps people can
Speaker 1: take in twenty twenty five to start making better financial decisions.
Speaker 5: So the good thing about my book is that it
Speaker 5: does have a bunch of exercises, so after the chapter,
Speaker 5: you can go through the exercise and start doing the
Speaker 5: work piece by piece, because sometimes, you know, when I
Speaker 5: get asked that question, so how do we fix this,
Speaker 5: it's like that is a big you know, I don't
Speaker 5: have one solution, and that's it can feel like a
Speaker 5: big life change or a big thing. So we kind
Speaker 5: of chunkify things into identifying your current money story, figuring out,
Speaker 5: you know, what kind of life experiences you've had that
Speaker 5: have maybe impacted you. Later on, there was also a
Speaker 5: really great chapter about generational trauma and how we've actually
Speaker 5: probably inherited if you haven't personally experienced something traumatic, but
Speaker 5: someone in your family has it may have been transferred
Speaker 5: over to you epigenetically, which is really crazy that I've
Speaker 5: also discovered about myself. There's certain things that we have
Speaker 5: and like I can't place it, and then you find out,
Speaker 5: like I had talked to my grandpa years ago. I
Speaker 5: had him on my podcast Thank Goodness and recorded it.
Speaker 5: It was such an important thing that ended up being
Speaker 5: in the book where he told me that he came
Speaker 5: from poverty goodness and his brother was an alcoholic and
Speaker 5: also a gambler and lost the family home in a
Speaker 5: bet gone wrong. And because of that, you know, my
Speaker 5: grandpa was very resistant, resistant to alcohol, but also so
Speaker 5: afraid of taking any financial risk. That was transferred to
Speaker 5: my mom and then to me. And that's been something
Speaker 5: I couldn't really place, like why am I so afraid
Speaker 5: to like take risks? Or why am I also specifically,
Speaker 5: I've always had this fear since I was a child
Speaker 5: of losing the family home. I don't know where that
Speaker 5: came from. And then when I heard that story, I'm like, ooh,
Speaker 5: that may have something to do with something, you know,
Speaker 5: why do I have this sphear of losing my house
Speaker 5: when my parents have always been financially responsible, my grandparents have,
Speaker 5: there is someone in the family who lost the family home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not even something that's like overtly talked about,
Speaker 1: but it's made in off handed comments.
Speaker 4: Well, it's not even it can be that.
Speaker 5: It can be sometimes you hear things and then they're
Speaker 5: going to just stick with you. But sometimes it actually is.
Speaker 5: Like the epigenetic portion to science portion is genetically it
Speaker 5: can be inherited. You can inherit fear, you can inherit
Speaker 5: certain feelings that get transferred to you and you won't
Speaker 5: know until you do some investigation in your family tree.
Speaker 5: And there's there's there's a great study that was done
Speaker 5: with rats. I know we're not rats, but they were
Speaker 5: able to make these rats fear a certain smell and
Speaker 5: then they had rat babies and those babies had the
Speaker 5: same fear of the smell without being conditioned to They
Speaker 5: just inherited that and it went down generations and generations,
Speaker 5: and so that's kind of the sciences and there's there's
Speaker 5: studies with humans as well that it will go into.
Speaker 5: But there's some just interesting data that shows that these
Speaker 5: things that are inside you may not have come from you,
Speaker 5: but they still exist. So doing that internal work to
Speaker 5: be like where where's you know, where's this coming from?
Speaker 5: And now the other elements of course of you know,
Speaker 5: what are these kind of barriers? What's you know, preventing
Speaker 5: you from maybe making some better financial decisions? Uh, could
Speaker 5: just be you being a human human behave if there's
Speaker 5: a big component. We have a bunch of biases that
Speaker 5: run rampant and most of us are really bad at
Speaker 5: identifying them and not letting them run the show. But
Speaker 5: the other element that again also doesn't get talked enough
Speaker 5: about in you know lots of personal finance literature out there,
Speaker 5: is you know, things like privilege and societal injustice. If
Speaker 5: you are a person of color, a woman, or someone
Speaker 5: of the disabilities or anything that you know, makes it
Speaker 5: more difficult to hit certain financial milestones compared to honestly,
Speaker 5: like a sis white man, it's it is going to
Speaker 5: be harder for you. And what's difficult is all of
Speaker 5: the messaging out there is well, you just have to
Speaker 5: work harder. It's like, well, we're already. The data shows
Speaker 5: we're also we're already working twice as hard. We're tired,
Speaker 5: We're really tired, and so we need to also recognize
Speaker 5: that it's not always you. You're probably doing as best
Speaker 5: as you can and working super hard, but guess what,
Speaker 5: there's discrimination in the world that is preventing you from
Speaker 5: getting that better job. And then so and so got it,
Speaker 5: and you're like, he has less work experience than me,
Speaker 5: he's not as good as the job. Why do you
Speaker 5: get the promotion? Oh, it's because these related to some
Speaker 5: money in that comp But you know, there's all these
Speaker 5: different things that we need to recognize. Because the one
Speaker 5: thing that when I was learning about you know, financial
Speaker 5: you know management and just how to be better with money,
Speaker 5: a lot of it was just like on me, it's like,
Speaker 5: well you need to do this, well, you need to
Speaker 5: do this. There's a lot of things that are working
Speaker 5: against you that have nothing to do with what your
Speaker 5: your actions. You know, a lot of it is just
Speaker 5: there's a lot of things in the way, and once
Speaker 5: you find out what those things are, then there is
Speaker 5: a path to work through them. And part of that is,
Speaker 5: you know, figuring out your financial foundation, what do you
Speaker 5: want to happen, what story do you want to tell
Speaker 5: yourself moving forward, and then doing that internal work, working
Speaker 5: with the therapist. Again, I saw like three or four
Speaker 5: during the course of writing my book to help you
Speaker 5: discover what's going on so we can move through them,
Speaker 5: leave them where they are. We don't need to bring
Speaker 5: those traumas or those experiences or even those There is
Speaker 5: a way to undo that epigenetic inheritance. You don't have
Speaker 5: to bring it forward into your life or to your children.
Speaker 5: There's a way to kind of work through that as well.
Speaker 4: So there are.
Speaker 5: Solutions, but you it won't be as obvious whether solutions
Speaker 5: are until you know what the real problem is.
Speaker 3: It's such a helpful reminder that our financial decisions are
Speaker 3: rarely about math now, it's much more about who.
Speaker 4: It was that easy, we'd all be better exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But again, we still just want to run to
Speaker 3: the budget and tell me how much to spend and
Speaker 3: what are the numbers on paper? And it doesn't feel
Speaker 3: great to say, you've got to explore your past and about.
Speaker 4: Your childhood, right exact.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also so much benefit in it too, because
Speaker 3: what you're describing and the encouragement that you're giving to
Speaker 3: all of us isn't just for the sake of benefiting
Speaker 3: our finances. It's going to help all aspects of who
Speaker 3: we are, which is incredible.
Speaker 5: That the goal should be to not just you know,
Speaker 5: be in a better financial situation, build wealth, have more
Speaker 5: money in the bank, have more a better sense of security.
Speaker 4: That's that's great.
Speaker 5: But you will hit a point, and there's a chapter
Speaker 5: that talks about money and happiness and wealth where your
Speaker 5: finances are fine, you have more than enough, you have,
Speaker 5: you know, a good situation going on, so you still
Speaker 5: don't feel good though you're still not happy. You still
Speaker 5: have a lot of shame. So it's not just about
Speaker 5: the numbers and how much money you can accumulate and
Speaker 5: how great you are at investing or earning things like that.
Speaker 5: What you've got to pay attention to that internal point
Speaker 5: because that was something I wrote but I wrote about
Speaker 5: was you know, I had a goal of you know,
Speaker 5: I want to be you know, me and my husband
Speaker 5: together a net worth to be a million dollars by
Speaker 5: the time I turned thirty five. That was just a goal.
Speaker 5: I'm like, once we hit that, I think I'll be happy.
Speaker 5: I think i'll you know, can relax little bit. And
Speaker 5: we hit that and nothing changed, nothing changed. I was
Speaker 5: still unhappy, and so then I moved the goalpost. I'm like, hey,
Speaker 5: two million by forty and we're approaching that. We'll probably
Speaker 5: hit it now because I've done this internal work, I
Speaker 5: know if we hit it, and we may not, and
Speaker 5: that's okay. I won't be much happier, I think, because
Speaker 5: what brings me happiness is not a dollar amount, even
Speaker 5: though I used to think it was for most of
Speaker 5: my life. What now brings me joy and happiness is
Speaker 5: the work that I do outside of money, like the
Speaker 5: actual work that I do, hanging out with friends and
Speaker 5: family and having those social connections, which is huge, Doing
Speaker 5: activities that make me happy that aren't about productivity, like
Speaker 5: so many people are like, oh, I started this hobby
Speaker 5: and people like, you know, you can monetize that. Just
Speaker 5: puzzle or knit or have a good time. Like, just
Speaker 5: do your hobbies and enjoy them. And that's what I've realized.
Speaker 5: I've restructured my life over these past two years to
Speaker 5: focus on what is actually going to give me long
Speaker 5: term happiness and stop focusing on these numbers that you
Speaker 5: know time and time again, it's not gonna It's gonna
Speaker 5: give you happiness for a split second, and then you're
Speaker 5: gonna be like next, what's next?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 4: Yeah? So true, Yeah so beautiful.
Speaker 1: I have one last question about the social Injustices portion,
Speaker 1: because I know you talk about this in your book,
Speaker 1: and I know that we have a lot of people
Speaker 1: listening to this show. Eighty five percent are women, A
Speaker 1: lot are in those disadvantage groups. Like do you have
Speaker 1: an action step or a quick like a mindset shift
Speaker 1: or something. What do you say to someone who's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not you know, trying to become a millionaire
Speaker 1: by thirty five, Like I know that that's not like
Speaker 1: my thing, Like I'm just trying to make it. I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to make it do something. I'm just starting
Speaker 1: just today.
Speaker 5: That was Yeah, that was one of the hardest parts
Speaker 5: because the whole book was like, Okay, let's identify the
Speaker 5: problem and let me offer you solutions, Like how do
Speaker 5: I offer sorry, how do I offer solutions to like racism?
Speaker 4: Like, well, I don't have the solution for that. That's
Speaker 4: kind of a big task.
Speaker 5: But no matter what kind of discrimination you may face,
Speaker 5: and the unfortunate thing is the discrimination. Sometimes it is
Speaker 5: a one on one someone personally is discriminating, but sometimes
Speaker 5: it's the institution. It is your entire company you work for,
Speaker 5: It is you know, whatever institution that you're dealing with
Speaker 5: that is way bigger than you that use an individual
Speaker 5: can't really do anything to change it, but we can
Speaker 5: may change in groups. We can you know, use our
Speaker 5: voice and advocate for ourselves and other people, be allies
Speaker 5: for people who you know, I know as women, we
Speaker 5: talk often about, you know, the wage gap, and it's like, well,
Speaker 5: we women have been talking about this for a while.
Speaker 5: We need our allies. We need our men out there
Speaker 5: who understand this to also vocalize and make change because
Speaker 5: sometimes we're still not heard despite the data. And so
Speaker 5: that's kind of what I want to kind of make
Speaker 5: sure people understood is this is really a group effort
Speaker 5: that we need to continue and have those discussions too
Speaker 5: with younger generations, our children, grandchildren, so we can be
Speaker 5: making decisions. That's the one exciting thing I see with
Speaker 5: gen Z is like they are making moves, and sometimes
Speaker 5: it's too fast for even me. I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 5: But I'm excited that they're making the change, and they're
Speaker 5: being kind of unapologetic about some of the things that
Speaker 5: they will not stand for, which is really exciting. And
Speaker 5: then the other component is kind of at the end
Speaker 5: of the chapter, I kind of give this idea of
Speaker 5: you have to remember that you, especially if you are
Speaker 5: experiencing discrimination, you can't let them win. You cannot give up,
Speaker 5: because what's the alternative If you do, definitely nothing will
Speaker 5: happen and things may get worse, and so you need
Speaker 5: to always I interviewed this professor. Was funny how I
Speaker 5: connected with him. He was a special guest lecturer in
Speaker 5: this course my husband was taking. He my husband at
Speaker 5: the time was taking a course in social work, and
Speaker 5: it was just like all of these elements are like,
Speaker 5: it's he's not doing it anymore. He's not taking courses anymore.
Speaker 5: But he thought he'd give it a try. And then
Speaker 5: he attended one of the lessons and this professor was
Speaker 5: talking and just when I think about him, like it's
Speaker 5: kind of crazy, how is connected to this professors Like,
Speaker 5: my husband shouldn't have even been in that course. But
Speaker 5: this guy, he told his story of you know, being
Speaker 5: originally from Africa and you know, migrating to or immigrating
Speaker 5: to Canada and having a really difficult time in terms
Speaker 5: of being accepted in the community. But Also, he was
Speaker 5: applying to get a master's at one of the universities,
Speaker 5: and he'dn't already had he already had like four degrees,
Speaker 5: or he already had several degrees. He was a very
Speaker 5: smart man, but he wanted to get his master's in
Speaker 5: social work and he was rejected not because of his
Speaker 5: education or his experience.
Speaker 4: He was absolutely qualified.
Speaker 5: It's because the person who was at the admissions was
Speaker 5: a racist and he, you know, just immediately didn't even
Speaker 5: look at the application but saw his name. It was
Speaker 5: not English, and he rejected him. And at first he
Speaker 5: was like, should I just give up? And luckily that
Speaker 5: admissions person moved on left that school, and then someone
Speaker 5: else was put in that place, and actually, and he
Speaker 5: fought for himself. He's like, please look at my application again.
Speaker 5: I don't think it was given a fair shot. And
Speaker 5: he was accepted. And then he kept on doing school
Speaker 5: and that he was a professor, and it was just
Speaker 5: such an amazing story of resilience of he could have
Speaker 5: walked away and just thrown his hands up and like, well,
Speaker 5: it's just not meant to be. How can I fight
Speaker 5: the system that is working against me? But he fought
Speaker 5: and now he is making sure that a lot more
Speaker 5: people can get into school, not based off of their
Speaker 5: name or their background, but based off of their experience
Speaker 5: and education and qualifications, which is exciting. So that's just
Speaker 5: one thing I always remind myself as no matter how
Speaker 5: hard or hopeless, it feels like we need to fight
Speaker 5: for ourselves but also fight for others. And that's what
Speaker 5: always like, why keep on talking about you know.
Speaker 4: Privilege and discrimination?
Speaker 5: Is like, yeah, we're not done talking about Its still
Speaker 5: not fixed, might be even getting worse. We don't know
Speaker 5: what's ahead, so we need to keep on fighting.
Speaker 1: It can be discouraging to make changes that may or
Speaker 1: may not benefit you, but knowing that there will be
Speaker 1: some kind of benefit in the long run does make
Speaker 1: it worth it.
Speaker 3: It's such a sad, disheartening story that you're sharing here
Speaker 3: and also one of resilience. But I think the reminder
Speaker 3: throughout is that there can be elements that are working
Speaker 3: against us, and it's not that we're not doing enough,
Speaker 3: which speaking of our money, stories can become embedded, and
Speaker 3: I think recognizing where we end and others in society
Speaker 3: begin and how that is impacting us can can help
Speaker 3: us to know where we sit in the grand scheme
Speaker 3: of things and help us to know then how to
Speaker 3: behave and respond as a result, and not internalize all
Speaker 3: of these things as if they were our fault. So
Speaker 3: I appreciate that reminder.
Speaker 1: One way I respond, and it may or may not
Speaker 1: be appropriate, but we do it every single week, the
Speaker 1: villa of the week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 2: is William.
Speaker 4: Maybe you've paid off your.
Speaker 2: Mortgage, maybe your cards, and you're happy to not have
Speaker 2: to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 4: Tough bills, but flow bills. Bill Clinton, this is the
Speaker 4: bill of the week, Jessica.
Speaker 1: Every week we invite our listeners and or our guests
Speaker 1: to share with us their bill for the week, and
Speaker 1: we are interested in hearing yours.
Speaker 5: So this is something that I have a bill that
Speaker 5: I'm happy about or not happy about, or because.
Speaker 1: I've got whatever I've got, whatever you want pops into
Speaker 1: your mind and the thing is the right.
Speaker 4: Thing, I'd say, one thing I'm proud of.
Speaker 5: So it was recently Black Friday, and I do this
Speaker 5: every Black Friday. I get, you know, disregulated emotionally because
Speaker 5: everyone's talking about all the deals. I put a bunch
Speaker 5: of stuff in online cards and then I literally get
Speaker 5: too anxious and I won't buy anything.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I can't make a decision. I don't know,
Speaker 4: this is too.
Speaker 5: Big of a decision, So I don't buy anything. But
Speaker 5: one thing that me and my husband do like clockwork
Speaker 5: every year is renegotiate our phone bill. So we have
Speaker 5: two cell phones, and we were able to talk to
Speaker 5: I don't know if it was our current provider, no,
Speaker 5: maybe it was our current provider, but sometimes we shop
Speaker 5: around to other providers, and we were able to basically
Speaker 5: for like ten dollars more than we're currently paying, both
Speaker 5: get the new iPhone and I'm like, this is awesome,
Speaker 5: this is a great deal.
Speaker 4: I love a good deal, so.
Speaker 5: I'm happy to pay that phone bill now because now
Speaker 5: I have a new iPhone.
Speaker 4: Yes, good for you. We love renegotiation.
Speaker 3: It can take time.
Speaker 4: It's one of those Oh was on the phone for
Speaker 4: like six hours, but I'm yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: That's the investment that it takes one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: Don't love it, but it can help exactly. If you
Speaker 3: all listening have a bill that you want to share,
Speaker 3: if it's about renegotiating. If it's about lowering your bill,
Speaker 3: it's about getting free stuff like an iPhone. If it's
Speaker 3: about a good deal, or your name is Bill, Frugal
Speaker 3: Friends podcast dot com slash Bill, leave us your bill.
Speaker 3: We can't wait for it. And now it's time for.
Speaker 4: Hiding, all right.
Speaker 1: So for today, what's a recent big financial decision you've
Speaker 1: had to make?
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, what's another what's a big difference? Yeah,
Speaker 5: I should have been more prepared. You send me the
Speaker 5: questions in advance.
Speaker 4: I actually did change this at the last minute. It's
Speaker 4: so unfair, Like, what is a big financial decision that
Speaker 4: we've made?
Speaker 5: I mean, we made one kind of also, Black Friday decided,
Speaker 5: you know what, we need a vacation. So we did
Speaker 5: drop some thousands of dollars on a vacation in the spring.
Speaker 5: So that was like a big decision we had, like
Speaker 5: are we going to do this or we can do this?
Speaker 5: And I'm like, should I press the bun? Should I
Speaker 5: press the button? So that was like probably the most
Speaker 5: recent big financial decisions.
Speaker 3: But it sounds like you're paying in advance for this vacation.
Speaker 5: I got six months of just reminding myself. Remember though,
Speaker 5: we're going on vacation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the of the vacation that is just as good,
Speaker 1: if not better than the actual vacation.
Speaker 4: Well, I write about this in the book.
Speaker 5: There's data that shows that it is the before and
Speaker 5: after a vacation or the best parts.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just went on vacation, and the and the the
Speaker 3: during was okay, good, good panicle.
Speaker 4: Oh but she's a weird traveler. Though.
Speaker 1: For most of us, it's the anticipation, the.
Speaker 4: Anticipation, where are you going?
Speaker 5: We're going to Dominican Republic never been nice, So doing
Speaker 5: a resort kind of thing easy. I just need something
Speaker 5: where I'm like, I can share and not think absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 3: For me, it hasn't been great over here in Saint Petersburg.
Speaker 1: Post bar answers are similar.
Speaker 4: They are cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of damage happened to the house, and
Speaker 3: so for us, no figuring out how we want to
Speaker 3: allocate not only the money that we have set aside
Speaker 3: kind of for emergencies and house projects, but I mean, really,
Speaker 3: initially do we even want to file acclaim with insurance discovered?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: What what we need done is way far and beyond
Speaker 3: our deductible but yeah, then how do we want to
Speaker 3: then allocate the money that the insurance gives us, because
Speaker 3: it's not going to actually cover everything that we need
Speaker 3: to have done. So these have been some big, weighty decisions,
Speaker 3: but I think to like pacing myself has been helpful.
Speaker 3: And that's one of those things that I've learned over
Speaker 3: time is nothing will happen all at once, and even
Speaker 3: when things do feel complete, come tomorrow, they won't be
Speaker 3: complete anymore.
Speaker 4: Something else will need to be done again.
Speaker 3: So yeah, just really pacing myself with all of the
Speaker 3: kind of new projects that were dropped on us literally
Speaker 3: by the wind.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Similarly, we have to get hurricane proof windows. Yeah, hurricane
Speaker 1: can you.
Speaker 4: Guys live again? We're seeing Florida.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, there's a lot of hurricanes I.
Speaker 1: Hear, Yeah, yeah, especially this year, and so we have
Speaker 1: gotten a grant from the state in order to get
Speaker 1: some hurricane proof when amazing, but it's not going to
Speaker 1: cover We essentially have to spend ten thousand in order
Speaker 1: to get ten thousand, and that is the This is
Speaker 1: a house that we've been renovating in order to eventually sell,
Speaker 1: and with the hurricanes. Having these windows, it feels like
Speaker 1: essential now even though it will not increase the price,
Speaker 1: we are able to sell it for with the grant
Speaker 1: will essentially just recoup the cost. But it is a
Speaker 1: large it that's a lot of money.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so on that.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much Jessica for coming on and talking
Speaker 1: about financial decision making. Where can people get your new
Speaker 1: book and get.
Speaker 4: More from you?
Speaker 5: Yes, so it's called everything but money, the hidden barriers
Speaker 5: between you and financial freedom is available everywhere in Canada
Speaker 5: the US. I am Canadian, but everything I talk about
Speaker 5: I just made sure for all my like us like
Speaker 5: fans and readers. Every example I give is in Canada
Speaker 5: and also the US, so it is applicable to you
Speaker 5: because again it's not really about money, it's about all
Speaker 5: the inside stuff. So you can find it you know, Amazon,
Speaker 5: Barnes and Noble, Target wherever you want, or I almost
Speaker 5: you know bookshop dot org, support in your local bookstore
Speaker 5: and stuff like that. But you could also just find
Speaker 5: more information about the book at Jessica Morehouse dot com
Speaker 5: slash book and make sure to also follow me aunt
Speaker 5: Jessica I'morehouse on Instagram.
Speaker 4: Lovely.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much Jessica for having this conversation with us
Speaker 3: thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that we're starting the year off with
Speaker 1: financial decisions, and especially establishing that our decisions are not
Speaker 1: good or bad, but truly are just pivots in the
Speaker 1: direction of life. And it's not like you make a
Speaker 1: bad decision and it leads a bad way. You make
Speaker 1: the good dec leads the good way. Every decision is
Speaker 1: just a pivot slightly in one direction, and sometimes that
Speaker 1: direction can go a little bit more towards the positive side,
Speaker 1: and sometimes that decision goes a little bit more to
Speaker 1: what maybe we consider a negative side, but it's never
Speaker 1: something that's going to ruin you.
Speaker 3: I also love the foundation that she laid here of
Speaker 3: the internal work that is going to help us here
Speaker 3: and the background understanding of ourselves that can support long
Speaker 3: term solid financial decision making. I think, you know, we
Speaker 3: do love to talk about understanding ourselves, but it's so
Speaker 3: helpful to have another perspective and a fresh reminder of
Speaker 3: how important this really is. We can't just skip steps
Speaker 3: and jump to we're really good at this. There does
Speaker 3: have to be some of that introspection that happens.
Speaker 1: And just want to reiterate that again, we're at the
Speaker 1: beginning of January. But it is truly these small incremental
Speaker 1: changes that will lead to big financial results and big
Speaker 1: change results. So there may be a lot of tenacity
Speaker 1: and motivation right now to make big sweeping changes to
Speaker 1: get big sweeping results. And truly that's not where it starts.
Speaker 1: It starts with a lot of this inner work, and
Speaker 1: we go we continue to do the inner work, and
Speaker 1: we're making these small incremental changes along with that work.
Speaker 1: That's what's going to get you to a really different
Speaker 1: place than you are right now this time in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six.
Speaker 3: And some of that incremental decisions that you made could
Speaker 3: be buying her book, buying our book, buy what you
Speaker 3: love without going broke by what you love.
Speaker 1: This book could be if you wanted it to be,
Speaker 1: that that could be would be changes.
Speaker 3: Thank you all so much for being here, for listening
Speaker 3: to us, for even leaving us reviews like this one
Speaker 3: from Sewing Buttons. Listening to the backlog brings learning and laughs.
Speaker 3: They say, I have been catching up on other episodes
Speaker 3: of the show, and I'm learning a lot. I always
Speaker 3: listen all the way through to the end of the
Speaker 3: show chat because I am here as much for entertainment
Speaker 3: as I am for frugal mindset.
Speaker 4: Shifts, sewing buttons. We don't talk about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the post show What Today? I was on The
Speaker 3: Romance Scams episode three eighty and while the episode content
Speaker 3: was kind of scary and sad, the end of the
Speaker 3: show chat about the Super Bowl and listening to Jen
Speaker 3: and Chill make really vague guesses about Taylor and Travis
Speaker 3: with hilarious I feel like I've never not known most
Speaker 3: of the details of their relationship. Even though I'm not
Speaker 3: really a Swifty or a Chiefs fan, hearing two people
Speaker 3: who were so under informed about them was super refreshing.
Speaker 3: Thanks for being willing to just make guesses about random
Speaker 3: hop culture and for your lovely friendly interactions. You two
Speaker 3: are a pleasure to listen to. But I will admit
Speaker 3: the first episode, when I heard Jill's scary Lightning Round voice,
Speaker 3: I was genuinely startled.
Speaker 4: And that's it.
Speaker 1: Thank you me too, Thank you for listening, and I've
Speaker 1: never fully recovered. If you enjoyed the show, if you
Speaker 1: enjoy The Underinformed Anything, or if you enjoy the Lightning
Speaker 1: Round Noises, please leave us a rating and review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify and a rating
Speaker 1: on Spotify. We love reading them and they help people
Speaker 1: figure out if this show is the right move for them,
Speaker 1: because it's not right for everyone in every season, and
Speaker 1: we want people to know that and not waste their time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks everyone, See you next time.
Speaker 1: Google Friends is produced by Eric Siriani. Okay, I still
Speaker 1: don't know a lot about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.
Speaker 4: But they are still together? Are they? Did you just
Speaker 4: look it up?
Speaker 3: Are you making that up? No?
Speaker 1: I'm not making it up.
Speaker 4: I just know that.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, And I'm I'm actually I'm truly not sure
Speaker 3: because it was so where ago at this point and
Speaker 3: now I'm just like, I don't know where are they?
Speaker 1: So they are together? Travis Kelcey and his brother hosts
Speaker 1: a podcast, and his brother has retired. His name is Jason.
Speaker 1: And they seem so nice, like just nice people and
Speaker 1: very secure in their masculinity. And Taylor Swift just seems
Speaker 1: like a nice person.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah.
Speaker 1: So, And on Black Friday, she released a book from
Speaker 1: the Eras tour that a lot of people stood in line.
Speaker 1: Yet I don't think anybody stood in line at a
Speaker 1: store for anything except at Target to get that book.
Speaker 3: Oh, because that was the only place they were selling it,
Speaker 3: wasn't it. I would assume, so creating scarcity. She's not dummy,
Speaker 3: she isn't. Wow, that's wild.
Speaker 4: Want people. I hope people wait in line for our book.
Speaker 4: Maybe I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 3: You don't need to.
Speaker 1: They don't need to. They can.
Speaker 4: And get it.
Speaker 3: And are we talking about this? We are making up
Speaker 3: our own book tour.
Speaker 4: Talk about that. Let's talk about Florida. We will Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I got to go pick up my kid. Get it.
Speaker 3: Get it in your mind though, if you live in
Speaker 3: Florida or eastern Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: We will be well there order bring your book and
Speaker 1: we'll sign it.