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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Why are so many dead

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Speaker 1: bodies piling up in one small town Pike t In Today?

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Speaker 1: Two people deeply in love planning a life together go

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Speaker 1: to sleep just before Christmas. They never wake up, shot

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Speaker 1: dead in the night. Why is there no resolution? Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Curtis Frances and Jennifer burget made

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Speaker 1: plans for a future together. They were engaged and then

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Speaker 1: talked about having children. That was something friends say Francis

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Speaker 1: was excited about starting a family of his own. Francis

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Speaker 1: was also an avidaue doorsman. He loved to hunt and

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Speaker 1: fish and was close to and protective of his family.

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Speaker 1: That family welcomed Jennifer Burgett with open arms. Francis's mother

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Speaker 1: described her daughter in law as being just like a daughter.

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Speaker 1: One night in December, someone came into the couple's home

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Speaker 1: and shot them as they slept. But why why gunned

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Speaker 1: down a couple unarmed in their sleep at home, in

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Speaker 1: their own bets and why is the case cold? Again?

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: it all. First of all, Ken Belkin, we're now a

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Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney joining us out of New York at

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Speaker 1: Belkan Law dot com. Doctor Jory Crawsen, psychologist, faculty Saint

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Speaker 1: Leo University, consultant with Blue Wall Institute and author of

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Speaker 1: Operation s O S Also with me. Forensics expert Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood

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Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand

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Speaker 1: new hit series, The Piketon Massacre, a whole other set

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Speaker 1: of murders in Piketon. He's now a star on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: But first I want to go to Jodi Barr. Also

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Speaker 1: joining me right now, two very special guests, Judy Conley,

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Speaker 1: that's Curtis France's mom found dead in their own bed.

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Speaker 1: Also Angela Montgomery, one of the Frances cousins and family representative,

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Speaker 1: and a victim's advocate. Ladies, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to first go to Jodi Barr, chief investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Fox forty six and you can find him on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Jodi Barr, Jody, I don't understand why this case is cold.

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Speaker 1: There had to be forensic evinants left high such as fingerprints,

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Speaker 1: cartridges to get some type of an etching on it

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Speaker 1: astriation mark to match back in the database. There's a

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Speaker 1: slew of investigative techniques. I'm not sure why the case

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Speaker 1: has gone cold, but let's just start at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what happened the night December nine, Kurt Francis

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Speaker 1: and Jennifer bird get were laying in their beds, and

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Speaker 1: Curtis had just left a neighboring house about seven minutes away.

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Speaker 1: They were having get together there and Curtis came home

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Speaker 1: and at some point in the night, while those two

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Speaker 1: lay in their beds, someone or some people came into

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Speaker 1: that home and shot them multiple times. With me, Jodi Barr,

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Speaker 1: Chief investigative reporter, Fox forty six, You say laying in

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Speaker 1: their beds, correct? Were they asleep? Because that makes a difference. Well,

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Speaker 1: some of the evidence we have found in the autopsy

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Speaker 1: reports would indicate at least one was a sleep. The

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Speaker 1: autopsy would indicate that Jennifer Burgett at some point may

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Speaker 1: have raised up in bed. Okay, so probably asleep and

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Speaker 1: then awakened by the sound of gunfire or someone breaking in.

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Speaker 1: And I, of course did not perform the autopsy. I'm

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Speaker 1: a j D, not an MD, but it's got to

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Speaker 1: be because of the trajectory path of the bullets. If

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Speaker 1: she raised up in bed when she heard something, the

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Speaker 1: gunshot wound would have come in at a different angle.

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Speaker 1: Or she may have a defensive wound, such as holding

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Speaker 1: your hand up and being shot in the hand or

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Speaker 1: the arm. But that movement of her sitting up indicates

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Speaker 1: to me she was asleep at the get go and

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Speaker 1: then woke up during the shooting. Something woke her up,

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Speaker 1: and that's why the bullet path would be different for her.

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Speaker 1: Jodi Barr again, Fox forty six, tell me about the area.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about not only Pike in Ohio,

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Speaker 1: but this particular spot where they were living. I understand

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Speaker 1: it's a very low crime rate. Yeah, it's very low. Well,

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Speaker 1: because it's very rural. This is about two hours east

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Speaker 1: of Cincinnati and the foothills of the Appalachia Mountains, and

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Speaker 1: you know that's where hey, wait a minute, whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 1: who whoa, Jodi Barr, you'd be surprised about how much

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Speaker 1: meth is getting cooked up in rural areas. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: other than that, and there's no connection between these two

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Speaker 1: and any sort of an operation like that. But The

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Speaker 1: reason I'm bringing it up is you'd be very surprised

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Speaker 1: at where crime rears its ugly head. But from what

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Speaker 1: I understand, Jodie, you're right that this was a very

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Speaker 1: low crime rate. It's rural. It's not like you're a

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Speaker 1: big city and somebody walks by and sees your door

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Speaker 1: open so they break in. Yeah. Well, that's part of

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Speaker 1: the problem with it beating rule is the fact that

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Speaker 1: the law enforcement forced and the capabilities and experience of

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Speaker 1: investigators within those law enforced and agencies in that area

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Speaker 1: makes you know, a crime like this even more difficult

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Speaker 1: to solve if they keep this in the house. So

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Speaker 1: that to answer your original question, that could be another

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Speaker 1: reason why this case is still nearly fifteen years later

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Speaker 1: unsolved and we don't know who killed these two people.

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Speaker 1: It's because it was rural and you know it's um

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Speaker 1: but with it being rural people, the people a person

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Speaker 1: who did this likely knew the victims and vice versus,

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's still This is why still today,

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Speaker 1: even with what has been uncovered in this case, is

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Speaker 1: you wonder why we're here, Jenny Barr. I know you're

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Speaker 1: in the chief investigative Report at Fox forty six. But

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a news flash. Murders in

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Speaker 1: rural areas get solved every day. I mean, I'm just

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Speaker 1: thinking right now about Molly Tibbots. Molly Tibbots, remember her

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Speaker 1: running along on rural road, went missing. It took a minute,

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Speaker 1: but the perp, Christian Rivera was caught. I mean that's

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Speaker 1: just off the top of my head. Then you've got

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Speaker 1: Karinea Atronto who was running along a deserted area on

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Speaker 1: Lone Island. Her case was solved. I mean, I can

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Speaker 1: go on and on and on about cases in rural

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Speaker 1: areas that are solved. There's something more to this why

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Speaker 1: it's not solved other than it's a rural area. That's

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Speaker 1: no reason for it not to be solved. As a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, that should make it more easily solved, Jody,

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Speaker 1: because as you pointed out, without a lot of strangers

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Speaker 1: coming through, you would expect the killer to be someone

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Speaker 1: from that area, someone they know. And speaking of the

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Speaker 1: area that you so accurately brought up, Jodi Barr, let

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Speaker 1: me go now to Joe Scott Morgan, who is currently

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Speaker 1: the star of the Piketon massacre and has spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time in Piked And what can you tell

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Speaker 1: me about the area, Joe Scott, And don't tell me

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Speaker 1: the case hasn't been solved because it's rural. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you that. What I'll tell you what I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you. It's a beautiful area. It's you know, Jody mentioned,

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Speaker 1: it's in the Appalachian Foothills. It's secluded, winding roads that

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Speaker 1: you know. I've driven. I've driven through quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of it, and some of it actually reminds me of

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Speaker 1: trips I made to Ireland. Beautiful, green and lush. But

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Speaker 1: it is isolated, Nancy, these people live in an isolated environment.

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Speaker 1: I just jump in with something you said before I

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Speaker 1: lose the foothills. You know, as the crow flies, something

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Speaker 1: may be two miles away, but when you have to

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Speaker 1: go up one side of a mountain and down the

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Speaker 1: other side of the mountain to get to it, it

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Speaker 1: can be an hour drive. So when you say this

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Speaker 1: is in the foothills, let me tell you that it's

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Speaker 1: an impediment to people coming in and out of the area. Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, just yeah. Throw that in also kind of

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Speaker 1: dovetelling what you're saying there. It also goes to this

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Speaker 1: idea that people that are involved in crimes there that

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Speaker 1: are locals, they're gonna know where to go, what to avoid,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna know every little hymn and holler that's in

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Speaker 1: this area. You know, you've got switchback curves, You've got

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Speaker 1: you know the old saying about when you go around

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Speaker 1: a curve you can actually meet your rear end when

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Speaker 1: you're going around it. It's narrow, you know. I've been

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Speaker 1: in a car up there and knowing that you have

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Speaker 1: to pull over on side of the road to give

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Speaker 1: somebody else passage in order to get through there. So

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Speaker 1: it's very isolated. The people all know one another, and

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Speaker 1: many times the people like to keep their mouth shut.

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Speaker 1: They don't talk about other people's business many times, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's tough to crack that nut. Time stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace joining me right now is one of the

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Speaker 1: victim's mother, Judy Conley. This is Curtis Francis as a mother.

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Speaker 1: Also with me of France's cousin, Angela Montgomery. And the

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Speaker 1: only way I found out about this case is because

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Speaker 1: of Angela Montgomery. She contacted me via our Facebook wasn't

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Speaker 1: it Facebook? Angela? Where I found it. I believe I

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Speaker 1: got you through Facebook, Instagram, email, I tried everything. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's how we connected. You wrote the Nancy Gray's Facebook

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Speaker 1: And if I hadn't seen that, I would never have

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Speaker 1: known that these beautiful people, and it hurts me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer's just thirty, kurtis thirty four, and they're they're settling

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Speaker 1: down together. They're at the point of life where they

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Speaker 1: want a family. That's about when it hit me too

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Speaker 1: that I knew somehow, and I didn't know how it

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Speaker 1: was going to happen, that I wanted a family, somebody love.

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Speaker 1: And I think about them, They're they're getting married, They're

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Speaker 1: gonna immediately start a family, and here they are in

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Speaker 1: their own bed at night and get gunned down. I mean, Judy, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Miss Connolly, you think when you go to bed at night,

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Speaker 1: you're safe. Yeah, And I'm thinking about how mine of

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Speaker 1: my husband's bedroom is about what would you say, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: ten feet maybe fifteen feet most from my children's and

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Speaker 1: I sleep with all the doors open so I can hear.

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Speaker 1: But when I go to bed at night, I knock on.

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Speaker 1: Would really believe we're all safe? And I know that's

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Speaker 1: what your son thought. When he went to sleep that night.

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Speaker 1: Tell me how you found out about the shootings. My

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Speaker 1: son had been at my house the night before about

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Speaker 1: ten thirty at nine, and I told him when he

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Speaker 1: got home to call me, and I talked to him

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Speaker 1: about eleven o'clock. I tell him, I said, don't you

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Speaker 1: go back out of the house. Stayed there. Oh, Judy,

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Speaker 1: you sound like you sound just like my mother to

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Speaker 1: this day, call me when you get there. Don't be

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Speaker 1: out and about don't do this when I go on

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Speaker 1: an investigation. Sometimes I hate to even tell her, Judy,

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Speaker 1: because it gets for so upset. So I'm just imagining

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Speaker 1: you telling Curtis France's age thirty four, don't go back

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Speaker 1: out of the house. He was my baby. And just

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Speaker 1: hear you say this, baby. Oh you know what, can

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Speaker 1: I tell you something which is totally irrelevant. My son

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Speaker 1: is thirteen, you know, I have boy girl twins. He's

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Speaker 1: six four, but he's my baby. I still make him

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Speaker 1: sit in my lap. They will always figure. I can

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Speaker 1: just hear you right now saying don't go back out

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Speaker 1: of that house. I did. I told you, I said,

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Speaker 1: don't go back out because I don't know what it

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Speaker 1: was I did I wanted to know, like you said,

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Speaker 1: that he's safe in bed. That way I can sleep,

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Speaker 1: you know. So the next day he had been at

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Speaker 1: my house and wanted my other son Paul to come

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Speaker 1: and fix a dry events and wanted him to go

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Speaker 1: with him, and I said, no, he can't go with you.

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Speaker 1: You go home. They will come over tomorrow, my husband

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Speaker 1: and Paul and fix your draw events. When they went

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Speaker 1: over there, it was all taped off. The sheriff and

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Speaker 1: everybody was there and they had a crime scene taped off.

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Speaker 1: So when my husband got home, I was in the

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Speaker 1: bathroom cleaning. He said, you need to come in here.

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Speaker 1: I had just lost my daughter six months before that.

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Speaker 1: She committed suicide. She was bipolar, so I was still

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Speaker 1: dealing with that. When I walked in there, I said,

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Speaker 1: Curtis is dead. Any He said, who's been here? I

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Speaker 1: said nobody. I just know it. I said, Jenny gis too,

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Speaker 1: ain't you. I don't know. It's this and the instinct.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it was to this day, but

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Speaker 1: something I felt. But and he said, somebody has talked

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Speaker 1: to us, And know nobody has talked to him. I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen anybody, So that's hell. Miss Conley, I gotta

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Speaker 1: tell you something, Miss Conley. With me is Judy Colly.

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Speaker 1: This is Curtis's mom aunt, Angela Montgomery, France's cousin Judy.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I got the call about my fiancee

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Speaker 1: and his Keith sister said where are you? And I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm at school. Is Keith gone? I mean somehow I knew,

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Speaker 1: I know he was dead, and I was in a

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Speaker 1: completely different city. And I've had so many victims' family

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Speaker 1: tell me that, so okay, Then what happens? I hit

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Speaker 1: the poor or worse than my son Paul. He grabbed

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Speaker 1: me and I asked him to pray. I said, I

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Speaker 1: pray with me. He said, I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: know how. Mom. I said, yes, you do know how.

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Speaker 1: And after we did that, it was like something come

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Speaker 1: over me and I got up. I was fine. I

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Speaker 1: handled everything, the people, I handled everything until it was

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Speaker 1: all over, and then I fell apart. And I've been

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Speaker 1: falling apart ever since because I need that closure. I

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Speaker 1: need to know who killed my baby. Angela my Gomery

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Speaker 1: join in. What are your recollections? Sorry? Got chocked up

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Speaker 1: a little bit, and I just remember that my dad

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Speaker 1: had told me I just didn't believe it and they

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Speaker 1: didn't understand it, and it didn't make sense. Just kind

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Speaker 1: of like you're in like numb in shock, I guess.

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Speaker 1: And we went to the funeral, their funerals, and after

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Speaker 1: everything was all over, that's when it kind of hits you,

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Speaker 1: like who did this? What happened? You get angry. You know,

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Speaker 1: I want something done about this, and you have hope

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Speaker 1: that you know, you have law enforcement telling you we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna get these people. When and here we

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Speaker 1: are fifteen years later, almost and nothing the same. We're

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Speaker 1: in the same spot we were the day it happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know about you, Angela, but when

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Speaker 1: you were saying you were choked up, I felt the

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Speaker 1: same way. But I feel choked up and like it

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Speaker 1: makes me want to cry, And at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I'm angry that nothing has been done. I don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just got Morgan. I don't understand what the

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Speaker 1: hey is going on. Why don't we have any answers? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think one of the problems, Nancy, is that they've

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Speaker 1: got limited resources in this area, and that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a hollow excuse, and it's it's it's it's sad that

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Speaker 1: you have to tell the family that. But I think

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Speaker 1: that because it's so insulated from the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world that I think that they really wasted time getting

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Speaker 1: people like the State ag involved in this case. It

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Speaker 1: just kind of went on and on and on until

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Speaker 1: it wound up getting back Bernard with a lot of

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Speaker 1: other cases that occur up there, Nancy, and not to mention,

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Speaker 1: I got to be perfectly frank with you, they've got

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Speaker 1: a certain level of corruption up there as well. You know,

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Speaker 1: you look at the sheriff sheriff reader form share who's

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Speaker 1: now doing time as a result of mouthfeasance in office.

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Speaker 1: I think that there's a deep seated route that flows

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Speaker 1: through all of this where people are not put first

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Speaker 1: in this area, the residents, they're kind of forgotten, and

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Speaker 1: it's it really rears its ugly head in cases like

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Speaker 1: this where people's lives have just been completely destroyed. Well,

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Speaker 1: before we get off on corruption and ulterior motives, can

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Speaker 1: we talk about the forensics in this case, What if

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Speaker 1: anything do you know? Well, this is what I do know.

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Speaker 1: I know that that at the scene they were unable

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Speaker 1: to actually recover a weapon that may have been used

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Speaker 1: in the commission of this crime. And you know for us,

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Speaker 1: you know, you were talking about the attitude of the bodies,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the position the trajectory of these rounds. Well,

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Speaker 1: what do you know about the position of the body

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Speaker 1: or the trajectory. Well, I think the most striking thing, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: is the fact that both of these poor souls were

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Speaker 1: in bed, they had no awareness. That gives me an

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Speaker 1: indication that this was probably not just a single person

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Speaker 1: that came in and did this. They probably came in

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Speaker 1: and issued control over these individuals. It's probably a pair

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Speaker 1: of people that came into this environment and ended their

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Speaker 1: lives in their bed as they slept. Okay, why do

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Speaker 1: you believe there was more than one part? Well, because

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Speaker 1: I think that when you show up at a home

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Speaker 1: in order to do this kind of violence, this kind

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Speaker 1: of violence, I think that you're prepared with more than

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Speaker 1: one person in order to manhandle people. And there's also

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Speaker 1: an indication that there's more than one weapon that's associated

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Speaker 1: with this case by virtue of what they found later

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Speaker 1: on Sequestered Away Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. He just

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Speaker 1: heard Joe Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, mentioned that evidence had

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Speaker 1: been quote sequestered away. What he's trying to say in

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Speaker 1: plain English is evidence hidden. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut five. This is Jodi Barr Fox nineteen. Well it's

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Speaker 1: covered up that d go for two days, two to

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Speaker 1: three days pretty well around the club. Last summer, Paul

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Speaker 1: Francis was knocking out a plumbing job for a friend

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Speaker 1: here on wind Road. It's the last place his brother

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Speaker 1: was before he was murdered in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: Paul's waited ever since for investigators to solve this case.

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Speaker 1: Never did he think he might be the one to

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Speaker 1: break it wide open. And it was very I don't

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Speaker 1: read like four foot of rocks and its being hid.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knew the whale was there till we found him.

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Speaker 1: So as an accident you found it. Yeah, somebody wanted

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Speaker 1: the little town. It was one to s find it.

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Speaker 1: I reckon with found it and listen to more. Here's

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Speaker 1: Fox nineteen. Our cut six. The Francis family called the

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Speaker 1: sheriff's office last July to report finding the well. The

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Speaker 1: Pie County Sheriff's Office taped it off, then hired a

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Speaker 1: plumber to run a camera down it. Investigators Frances says,

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Speaker 1: showed him the pictures of what they found down there.

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Speaker 1: I seen it pictures later me and my mom. I

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Speaker 1: called a sadot gun. I never action a key shot

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Speaker 1: thirty off six. That's why my brothers killed Willis and

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Speaker 1: his wife fiance and a pistols that well. Right now

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Speaker 1: we focus about say nothing about that, but I think

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Speaker 1: something it's timeful to be said. Out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: When working on a project, a well hidden is uncovered,

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Speaker 1: and in that well, between feet of dirt and rocks

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Speaker 1: the murder weapon straight out to Angela Montgomery, a Francis cousin,

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Speaker 1: what can you tell me about that? Paul, which is

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Speaker 1: Curtis's brother. He was doing a job, like he said,

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Speaker 1: a plumbing job. He found the well and he thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: nobody knew this well was here when Curtis and Jimmy

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Speaker 1: got murdered. Maybe I should call the cops and let

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Speaker 1: him know because the place where he was working at

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Speaker 1: is the last place Curtis was seen alive. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: not just a coincidence. It can't be. Now take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cutoc. This is our friend Tyler Hunt

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Speaker 1: at crime Online. As work progresses, Francis finds a waterline

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Speaker 1: and exposed wires that are not supposed to be where

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Speaker 1: they are. Francis starts following the wires as they were

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Speaker 1: pulled out from under the grass through the front yard

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Speaker 1: to a pile of rubble. Fifty yards away. Under four

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Speaker 1: feet of rubble is a well, and in the well,

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Speaker 1: possibly a break in the depths of his brother and

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Speaker 1: future sister in law. This wind Rode home was the

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Speaker 1: last place his brother was the night he was murdered.

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Speaker 1: Straight back out to Judy Connelly. This is Curtis, Francis's mother,

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Speaker 1: So Paul is also your son, Curtis's brother, Tell me

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Speaker 1: what happened. He went over there to do some work,

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Speaker 1: plumbing work for a guy that lived there. And he

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Speaker 1: comes home and he says, Mom, we found a well,

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Speaker 1: said I pulled on the wars, said they have County water,

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Speaker 1: but this is a drill well and it's covered debt.

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Speaker 1: So do you want to call the law I said yes,

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Speaker 1: So I called him. He worked in the rain for

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Speaker 1: three days digging that out, and when they got to it,

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Speaker 1: they ran the camera down there, which men him both

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Speaker 1: The sheriff reader showed us the picture and it was

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Speaker 1: a two guns, a pistol, and the ruffle. The pistol

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Speaker 1: was Curtis's. It was missing. Not saying they were killed

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Speaker 1: with that gun, but someone stole it out of his

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Speaker 1: host because I have his hoster. So that's where it started.

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Speaker 1: And then they brought the fire department and my son

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Speaker 1: telling them, don't do that, you'll blow the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the well out. They did. They blowed eighty foot at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the well out and the guns are lost.

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Speaker 1: We don't have the guns. No, the sheriff's departments filled

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Speaker 1: the well straight out to veteran criminal defense attorney Ken

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Speaker 1: Belkin at belcan Law dot com joining us out of

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Speaker 1: New York, Ken, you have tried a lot of cases.

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Speaker 1: How rare is it that like this literally just falls

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Speaker 1: in your lap. Here is the victim, one of the

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Speaker 1: two shooting. Victim's brother working on a plumbing issue, sees

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Speaker 1: a wire that is not supposed to be there, follows

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Speaker 1: the wire and it leads to a hidden well. They

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Speaker 1: run a camera down, they see the guns and they're

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Speaker 1: the same caliber guns used in the double murder, and

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Speaker 1: then they blow out the well and lose the evidence.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is unbelievable. If your law enforcement investigating

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Speaker 1: a double murder, one of your top priorities, aside from

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Speaker 1: catching the actual murderer or murderers, is to get that

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Speaker 1: murder weapon because it's probably going to be one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest pieces of evidence that ties you to the

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Speaker 1: person who committed these crimes. Okay, we've lost the evidence,

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Speaker 1: but from what you could tell, Judy Connelly, what type

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Speaker 1: of weapons we're down the well, it was a rifle

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Speaker 1: and a pistol. I don't know much about guns, but

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Speaker 1: my son said it was that the rifle was the

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Speaker 1: one that Curtis owned or had had. So Jess got Morgan,

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Speaker 1: you're a ballistics expert, what can you tell me? Well,

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Speaker 1: from what we understand the brother when he saw these weapons,

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Speaker 1: he referred to the rifle as a saddle gun. And

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Speaker 1: if folks will just think about watching old Western movies

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Speaker 1: where they have lever action weapons, lever action rifles, this

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Speaker 1: is something that would go into the scabbard on the

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Speaker 1: side of a horse, like in an old cowboy movie.

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Speaker 1: And he actually said that he believed that it was

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Speaker 1: a thirty odd six, which is a kind of a

404
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Speaker 1: robust round. It's a it's a hunting round that's used

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Speaker 1: in this weapon, and he said specifically that it holds

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Speaker 1: eighteen rounds, which you know, in order to actuate it,

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Speaker 1: you have to work the work, the action work the lever.

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Speaker 1: It ejects one and seats a new fresh round after

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Speaker 1: you fire it. So it's a very specific weapon and

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Speaker 1: it's not something you commonly see used in a crime

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Speaker 1: like this, So it's very unique to the ownership. It

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Speaker 1: would give me an indication that someone had to know

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Speaker 1: that he possessed these weapons. And again, Nancy, just I

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Speaker 1: got to say, who in the world would know that

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00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: that well was back there? This opening to this thing

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Speaker 1: is only six inches in diameter. Nancy, this isn't like

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Speaker 1: some kind of wishing well you know that you think

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Speaker 1: about in a fairytale story. This is a very narrow opening.

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Speaker 1: You have to have intimate knowledge of this environment to

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Speaker 1: know that this thing even exists back there. So for

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Speaker 1: me as an investigator, for me as an investigator, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: this tells me that whoever did this had intimate knowledge

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Speaker 1: of the geography and the people that occupied this location.

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Speaker 1: Then is there a break? Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut eight. This is our Friend Jodie Barr Fox nineteen

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00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: A few months ago, we uncovered ten year old witness

427
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: statements in a separate Pike County murder case, statements that

428
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: appeared to tell the whole story about what happened here

429
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: on Hopper Road in December two thousand and six. These

430
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: are the six people whose name show up in the statements.

431
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: We found. Robin Howes owned the house with the well.

432
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: She shared that home with her boyfriend Kevin Hoskins Prator

433
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: and her son James Howes. Corey Howes is Robin's youngest son.

434
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: Corey and his girlfriend at the time, Eden Canterbury, gave

435
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: investigators statements in a separate murder case. Eden wrote Robin

436
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: Howes ordered the hit that killed Kurt Francis and Jenny Burgett.

437
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: Corey and Eden's statements went on to say his brother,

438
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: James Howes and a family friend, Eric Horne, took a

439
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: rifle out of the home and came back later with

440
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: bloody clothes, ordered a hit, bloody clothes take to listen

441
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: to our cut nine. There's more now. Those same statements

442
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: showed that Robin Howes ordered James Howes and Eric Horn

443
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,719
Speaker 1: into the shower while Kevin Hoskins Prator burned their bloody

444
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: clothes and buried them somewhere in their yard. We tried

445
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: to track the people down who gave those statements. Corey

446
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: Howses in prison, so was his brother James Howes. Neither

447
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: agreed to interviews. We could not track Eden Canterbury down,

448
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: and after several trips to Pike County, we found the

449
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: new home Robin Howes and Kevin Hoskins, prator share in

450
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: Pike Ten. Robin Howse's son, Corey House's girlfriend told investigators

451
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, Robin Howes ordered the hit

452
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: against Kurt Francis. Corey Howes told investigators Jenny Burgette wasn't

453
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: supposed to be home to EGD Conley. This is Curtis

454
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: Francis's mother joining us. What do you make of it?

455
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's crazy and wow. Do you

456
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: know any of these names? Yes? Yes I do. How

457
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: do you know them? They lived up the broad from

458
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: one of my rental houses, So they knew your son, yes,

459
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: if they knew him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace ken Belcan,

460
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer at Belkan Law dot com. Kim, you

461
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: know the phrase familiarity breeds contempt right. Very often homicides

462
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: are committed by people that know each other, be it neighbors,

463
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: a family member, an ex boyfriend, a husband. Very often

464
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: the purp will know the victim. In fact, it's rare

465
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: that a murder goes down where the perp doesn't know

466
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: the victim in some fashion. Would you agree with that?

467
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: I would totally agree with that. I mean, to hate

468
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: someone enough to kill them, you must really know them.

469
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: And another thing, Ken Belkin, what we're talking about is

470
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: a jail house informant. When you get people behind bars

471
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: they say, hey, I know about this, that or the

472
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: other thing, you have a credibility problem because it's going

473
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: to be argued that the only reason they're talking is

474
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: because they want leniency. In another case, absolutely, but it

475
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: appears that Eric Horne, you know, he's already serving a

476
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: life sentence for a murder that he pled guilty two

477
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, that I'll show up the

478
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: third and he's already in jail. He really, he's already

479
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: been given the life sentence at this point. He doesn't

480
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: really have any motive to fabricate any thing. In fact,

481
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: you could argue that he had significant motive not to

482
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: come forward because he was afraid that him or his

483
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: family who are not in jail, could have been retaliated

484
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: against by the perpetrator. Let me go to our psychologist

485
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: joining us today. He's a steamed psychologist, faculty Saint Leo

486
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: consultant author doctor Jorry crossin Doctor Jury. I've used jail

487
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: house informance before. I've used witnesses from behind bars, and

488
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: the first thing I do in an opening statement is

489
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: tell the jury he's an inmate. But even an inmate

490
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: has information. Even somebody with a conviction can tell the truth.

491
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: You be the judge, see if it fits the evidence.

492
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: So inmates can tell the truth. They don't always want leniency. Yeah,

493
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: the main thing you want to do with that information

494
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: or the statement is to collaborate it, and you know,

495
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: either through other sources connecting it to evidence. That's the

496
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: investigative method to to use on that. But inmates they

497
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: do tell the truth. I mean, you know, the motivation

498
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: can be leniency, like we've already said, it can be

499
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: just wanting to clear their conscious. Is there any chance

500
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: of another witness? Take listen to our cut twelve Fox nineteen,

501
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: we tracked down a man who claims to be a

502
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: witness in the Hopper Road case. We found him at

503
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: a state prison in Pickaway County. The question has to

504
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: be asked, did you have anything to do with this

505
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: double homicide? Eric Horne is one of the people accused

506
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: in the Hopper Road statements. Horn serving a life sentence

507
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: in a separate murder case. He claims he was at

508
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: the How's Wind Road home the night of the murders,

509
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: but left before Kurt Francis left and was later murdered.

510
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: Did you ever see Kurt Francis again? Back to Judy Conley,

511
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: this is Curtis's mother. Do you believe he's telling the truth? Yes, yes,

512
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 1: I did. What do you think happened the night your

513
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: son was murdered? I think he went home, went to sleep,

514
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: and they come in and killed him. Do you believe

515
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: this guy, Eric Horne is telling the truth. Yes, I do.

516
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: Why I don't know why, I just do. He's got

517
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 1: nothing to lose. They the next morning after my son

518
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: died house came to my house trying to accuse him

519
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: of killing my son. They were the first people there.

520
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: I mean, there was this something about on my I

521
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: told Paul my son, I said, don't go around them.

522
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: That's the last place your brother was. I said, I said,

523
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I just have

524
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: a feeling, and I did. To you, Angela Montgomery, does

525
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: the story that this inmate, Eric Horne is telling makes

526
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: sense to you. I've did a lot of research on

527
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: this case, and I've noticed that Eric likes to make

528
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: sure he excludes hisself out of anything to do with

529
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: that night. I found some proper letters that he was

530
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: making in a in the Paul shopecase between the prosecutor

531
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: and Eric's lawyer, and it does say that Eric would

532
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: give up information that he had driven Jans to curtain

533
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: Jenny's house that night, but he had no idea that

534
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: James was going to murder them. So he says one

535
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: thing then another. I think personally that they were both

536
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: there and they both know what happened. But do you

537
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: believe what he's saying about the murders themselves, whether he

538
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: was the getaway driver or not. Yes, I do. Take

539
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut thirteen Fox nineteen. In September

540
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, nearly a year following the Hopper

541
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: Road murders, Eric Horne was inside the Pike County Courthouse

542
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: about to take a plea deal in a separate murder case,

543
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: State prosecutors Horn's case file shows were negotiating a deal

544
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: with Horn for information on the Hopper Road case. Horn

545
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: says he wrote a statement then claiming Robin Howes ordered

546
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: the hit against Kurt Francis and Kevin Hoskins, prator, and

547
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: James Howes carried it out. Horne says James Howes admitted

548
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: that to him a few months after the Hopper Road murders.

549
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: What did James tell you? James shopping firewood and broke

550
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: down and said, Kevin done it? Kevin done it as

551
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: it Kevin did Look, he broke down, started crime. It

552
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: was Robin's doing. She's the one that basically made him

553
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: do it. Then a mystery letter emerged. Listen to our

554
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: cut for it. Eric Horne says, days after giving prosecutors

555
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: the information on the Hopper Road murders, he wrote this

556
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: letter and sent it home to his mother for safekeeping.

557
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: In it, he described what he told investigators. Why did

558
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: you decide to write this letter and include these details

559
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: in and send that home because if anything were to

560
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: happen to me, there would be that there would at

561
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: least be some type of brickering so that justice, justice

562
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: could be Horne says he told investigators about a lever

563
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: action rifle that was hanging in the house home, a

564
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: rifle similar to the one Paul Francis says he saw

565
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: in the pictures from inside this well. Now a decade later,

566
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: Horne says, this well's proven what he told investigators nearly

567
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: ten years ago. You gave investigators this information almost a

568
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: decade ago now, and there have been no arrest. This

569
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: case still considered a cold case by the Ohio Attorney

570
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: General's office because they did not want to listen to me.

571
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: They did not want to hear what Anna say. Judy Connley,

572
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: this is Curtis Francis' mother. How does it make you

573
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: feel to know they've been sitting on this evidence for

574
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: ten years? It makes me sick because there's no reason

575
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: for it. I told him once before, I said, this

576
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: case is too simple. My son had a circle he

577
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: went in. He had one circle of friends and that

578
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: was it. And that's just too simple. I feel like

579
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: I know who divid who was in bobbed in it.

580
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: The working theory is that Curtis Francis was the intended victim.

581
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: And Jennifer Brigett, his fiancee was collateral damage that she

582
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: had to be murdered because she saw who murdered Curtis Francis.

583
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: You know, Joe Scott Morgan, you have been working in

584
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: Piketon for quite some time now on your special investigation.

585
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: I don't understand what the hold up is on the

586
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: Hopper Road murders. I don't. Yeah, I don't either. I'd

587
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: have to agree with miss Connelly. You know you've got

588
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: a brutal double homicide here. If you you know, if

589
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: that's not motivation enough in order to move forward and

590
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: get get these cases satisfied, get them solved. I can't

591
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: figure out what what would be because look the fact

592
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: that these two innocent people were gunned down in their

593
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: home where you're supposed to be safe. Somebody came into

594
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: that home and literally executed them in their beds. I

595
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: don't understand what the hold up to get this issue resolved.

596
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: I mean, listen to these poor family members, Nancy. You

597
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: know the fact that they're having to suffer after all

598
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: of this time, and there's so much information that they

599
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: could move forward with, it just baffles mind. Miss kinlay

600
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: foul a word from you. What is your message today?

601
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: I want to know who killed my baby. I want

602
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: to know and I think that they can find out

603
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: if they will get up and do it. How has

604
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: this affected your life? I mean, my life has been

605
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: a mess and it just kept getting worse. Because Paul

606
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: was a twin. He lost his twin brother and a

607
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 1: swimming accident when he was eleven years old. My daughter,

608
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: she was a nurse, she was BiPOL or. She stuck

609
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: a down her mouth six months before Curtis was murdered.

610
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: I've lost my husband three years ago. You know, I'm

611
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: just I don't know. I need something out of this.

612
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: You need justice. I needed If anyone has information or

613
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: thinks they have information, please dial seven zero nine seven

614
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 1: seven seven seven two five. Do you know how many

615
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: times I've given out tiplines? Thousands? I am begging you,

616
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: on behalf of this mother to please put her mind

617
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: at rest in the murder of her son Curtis seven

618
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: four zero nine seven seven seven seven two five. Nancy

619
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story signing off Goodbye friend,