WEBVTT - 'Root of Evil' Update with Zak Levitt: Part 1 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.400 You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:11.160 Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.080 are solely those of the individuals participating in the show 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.560 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.280 This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.160 for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.240 Hello, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:35.960 I'm Rasha Pecerreira and I'm Evett Genteeley and today's episode 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:40.360 is beyond special to us. And this episode is going 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.159 to be a two parter because it has been a 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.040 long time in the making for this particular one. 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:52.080 Yes, it absolutely has, and we are finally giving our 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.840 Root of Evil and Facing Evil fans exactly what they 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.360 want and in depth look at the making of our 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.720 hit podcast. Asked Root of Evil the true story of 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.480 the Hodel family and the Black Dahlia. 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.880 And the best way to do that is to have 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:12.600 the creator, the man himself, the producer, the writer, the 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:16.800 director of Root of Evil, mister Zach Levitt is here 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.360 with us on Facing Evil como. 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:24.119 My I am so excited to be here. I thank 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.360 you for asking me on. Thank you for the opportunity 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.720 to talk about what was such a special time in 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.280 my career, in my life and getting to know you 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.680 guys and making the show, and this is sort of 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.200 the conversation that I've been waiting to have for a while, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.959 to talk about the making of the show and what 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.040 we went through and the journey. And I'm really excited. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:50.880 So thank you for having me on. 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:52.760 Thank you, thank you here. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.040 Yeah, like this, like you said, this has been years 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:58.120 in the making. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:01:59.320 This conversation. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.160 Every single listener is going to want to listen in 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.680 on because we're going to answer all of the questions 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.040 and Yvette and I get DMS messages, calls, all the 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.000 things on the daily, and we have been getting all 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.720 those since twenty nineteen when Root of Evil came out. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.919 We're going to answer everything, and we more importantly, we're 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.800 going to have that amazing conversation with you, Zach, and 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.239 we're going to talk about everything that was left on 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.640 the cutting room floor of Rood of Evil. A lot 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.200 of people don't know what was left on the counting 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.600 room floor is monumental to the story and to our lives. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.080 And we're going to answer that big question, who was 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.960 our mom's father? Was it George Hodell, Was it her 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.680 grandfather or was it not. We're going to get into 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:53.240 all of that today. Zach Lovitt is a two time Emmy, Peabody, NAACP, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:57.840 Image and New York Press Club Award winning documentary, film 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.440 and podcast creator who has helmed some of the most 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:07.119 popular and acclaimed documentaries of all time. Zach's hit podcasts 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:13.480 include Gangster Capitalism, The Sunshine Place, Relative Unknown, and our 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.560 smash hit true crime podcast, Root of Evil, The True 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.920 Story of the Hodell Family and The Black Dahlia. And 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.680 next up for Zach, not only is he creating, producing, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.399 directing all the things, he is finally stepping in front 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:31.320 of the mic as the host of the highly anticipated 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.400 podcast The Set. 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:40.240 So prior to you making podcasts, Zach has made documentary 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.560 films from his time with the NBA. So we're talking 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:49.080 about thirty for thirty, Clutch City, Bad Boys, The Doctor, 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.800 Doctor j Doctor Julius Irving, who I just have to 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.440 say it was my dad's favorite, along with mine, The 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.960 Dream Team, The Announcement, and Once Brothers. I mean, Zach, 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.080 you have stood out as a fierce force and a 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:05.840 tenacious storyteller. 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:07.160 Zach, But what I. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.280 Really love most about you and this is this is 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.040 so true and it's in your bio. But you can 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:18.240 work with the biggest names in the entertainment, but then 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.680 you can work with unknown characters like us. But you 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:28.320 bring everybody's story to light. And we feel that in 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:33.080 all that you do, like there's heart, there's grit, there's connection, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.320 and that is a that is a storyteller at its finest. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:37.799 Zach. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.479 So, well, here's what I'm going to say the next 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.360 time I have a massive crisis of confidence on the 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.320 next project that I do, which there will be, because 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.480 it always comes where you say this is not going 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:56.560 to be good. Nobody's going to want to see or 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.800 listen to this. I'm going to listen back to that. 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:06.919 So thank you for that. That's super kind. And you know, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.400 I mean, I think for me, I go into every 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:15.039 story beginning with a sense of curiosity. Who are the people. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.560 That's really what I connect with, whether it's a it's 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:24.479 a former basketball player or athlete, or the two of you, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.320 or anybody that I have, you know, put into one 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.240 of these stories. It's a curiosity about your lives and 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.200 what you've been through. And you know, gaining that level 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.520 of understanding. To be able to convey that to the 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.920 audience is what I love about what I do more 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:43.839 than anything, making those connections. And you know, the greatest 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.320 thing to me about these stories and working on documentaries 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:50.000 are the relationships that you make, you know, And here 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.599 we are five five years later from when we first 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.800 spoke on the phone and I first came out to 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.480 San Francisco and LA to meet up with you and 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.839 and do these these shoots, these these recordings. Here we 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.720 are five years later, and that relationship has grown to 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.320 this point. And I love that about docs because it's 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.400 such an intimate task. It's such an intimate journey to 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.400 to get to know the people on a level where 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.120 you know you can trust each other in the telling 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.440 of the story and and trust each other with your deepest, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:30.360 darkest secrets and your lives, and you know, and that's 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.120 a that's a big undertaking. And you know, I that 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:37.080 is certainly something that I hold as incredibly important. And uh, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.039 I love the fact that I have been able to 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.840 continue these relationships through the years, and that's a really 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.120 rewarding part of what I do, being able to to 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.200 to follow along in your lives as well. And look 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.840 at I mean, now you have your own podcast, and. 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.360 Thank you, mister Zach Lovett to mister Donald, all right, 0:06:58.040 --> 0:06:58.800 it's because. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.640 Of what you've been able to do and and people 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.960 have made that connection with the two of you and 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.000 they hear the you know, the warmth in your voices 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.600 and the and the sincerity and so I'm just it's 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.040 a stretch to say proud parent, but that's sort of 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.720 what I feel sometimes, I know, God brother, Yeah, absolutely, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.160 that's a much better analogy. So that's super rewarding for me. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:22.520 So this is like full circle. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:27.200 It is full circle, and you're you're a true storyteller exactly. 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.080 And I was gonna that was going to be one 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.360 of my first questions for you, Zach, is because you 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.760 have this you know, immense body of work. Right where 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.600 you started in the NBA, right it was all about 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:42.360 the sports and the basketball. And then I guess my 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.120 question is how did you transition from you know, documentary 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.720 films to podcasting? How did that come about? 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.120 Yeah? So, I mean I was lucky in a sense 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:58.720 when I began working in production with the NBA. I 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:02.040 always wanted to get into production. I just I didn't 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.120 know anything about it. So you know, how do you 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.920 break your way in? And so working at NBA Entertainment 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.360 was the perfect opportunity. I mean, I'm a huge basketball fan, 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:17.520 and it afforded me the opportunity to learn production from 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:21.120 the start, you know, as a production assistant, work my 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:25.440 way up, and I realized that I loved to do it. 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:29.320 I loved pulling overnighters in the edit room and making 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.480 the deadline and trying, you know, just trying to work 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.160 on being an actual storyteller. And so I was able 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:41.840 to do that and had that tremendous opportunity to make 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:46.200 some thirty for thirties and these other films, and through 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:50.280 that I sort of wanted to branch out. I didn't 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.960 want to do sports stories anymore at that point. In fact, 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:56.920 the ones that I did, I was always sort of 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:01.880 searching for an angle to connect in a more human way, 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:03.440 you know, rather. 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:04.760 Than the heart of the story. 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.280 Yeah, rather than portraying a basketball player, who is this person? 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.080 And so that has always been what I've been drawn to. 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.319 And at a certain point I had made the decision 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.680 that I wanted to do that in a different way, 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:23.720 and this opportunity became available to come on and start 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:28.440 an Originals division for Caden's Thirteen, and initially it was 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.280 going to be sports stories, and I said, well, I 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:35.200 kind of want to do other stuff. And Chris Corcoran, 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.480 who hired me, to his credit, he just sort of said, 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.360 that sounds great, whatever you think. And having said all that, 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.120 as I'm you know, having these talks to come on board, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.960 talks were already going on behind the scenes between Caden's 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:54.440 Thirteen and TNT for a Sister podcast, which sounded really cool. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:59.040 I can actually picture where I was in my old house, 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:05.200 stand in the room having this conversation, asking the question, well, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.080 are any of the family members around? 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:09.520 That's exactly what I was going to ask, Like, take 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.200 us back to that moment, right when you decided to 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:13.559 do this. 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.520 Yeah, when I read your mom's book, as I said, 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:23.719 I was fascinated and I'm like, wow, there is a 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.640 lot here. 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.440 Right, one little layer of the onion exactly. 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.960 It was the first layer of the onion. But I 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.680 was devastated that to find out that your mom had 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:39.480 passed because my initial thought was, she'll tell her own story. Yeah, 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.800 she's never done this except for her book, and that'll 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.320 be really interesting. And I knew from her book that 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:46.760 she had a daughter named the Vett. 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.640 I know, I'm not I'm barely mentioned. I'm in the epilogue. 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.880 You probably didn't read the epilogue. 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:58.120 So I remember on that call with TNT, they said, well, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.120 we'll put you in touch with the girls. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.520 And you're like the girls with. 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.000 Any girls, there's more than one. And I said to myself, 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.560 oh shit, like, how am I going to incorporate two 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:13.080 of them as potential hosts? You know what is that 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.600 going to look like? So all of these things were 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.120 swirling in my mind in the background as we had 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.480 our first conversation. And I'm trying to remember. I think 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.400 I may have spoken with Sam Sheridan prior to speaking 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.600 with you read Yeah, yeah, so Sam Sheridan was the 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:35.719 writer and I think the ep and I am the Night, Yeah, 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.400 And so I spoke to him. I remember the first 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:40.400 question I asked him was, can you send me your 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.160 reading list, like all the books that you read to 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.959 write I Am the Night because I need to start researching. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.480 And so he sent me a whole list of books 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.320 and I went out and I read all of them. 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.120 And it was such a wide range of topics, from 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:57.360 surrealist art to the history of LA and you know, 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.520 I found a bunch on my own that I read 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.200 as well. And one of the things that he said 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.439 on that conversation and I was just, I mean, I'm 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.199 trying to sort of jump on the treadmill as it's 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:14.000 speeding along. And you've been writing this thing for however long, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:15.079 a year or longer. 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.000 I know that you worked with Mom for a year 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:19.600 before he passed. Yeah. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.040 Yeah, so you know, any story that I do, my 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.600 first thing is to do research, and I try to 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:32.400 literally read everything possible it's ever been written about those topics, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:34.800 so that you know, if I'm going to tell the story, 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.840 I have to be an authority on that story. But 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.320 one of the things that he mentioned in that conversation was, 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.080 so I just spoke to the girls Russia and Nivette, 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.480 and I'm saying to myself, Okay, Rasha, I didn't know 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:54.600 there was a second daughter. And he said, they told 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.080 me that they just went on twenty three and meters. 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.480 They just submitted their DNA to twenty three and meter 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.240 but I told them not to check the results until 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:04.080 they speak with you. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.880 He actually had it done before Mom passed. 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.160 But yeah, but we hadn't checked because some things were 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.600 coming up real funky, and we're like, oh my god, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.400 this is going to prove that George was Mom's father. 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:42.600 So I said, DNA results, you know, what is that 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.880 all about? That sounds interesting and it sounds like it 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.920 could be an interesting sort of reveal for the podcast. 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.400 I'll just talk to them. I don't even know DNA 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.160 results for what? Right again? I remember where I was 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.080 the first time we spoke. I was sitting in my 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.640 car in the parking lot of the library in the 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.360 town I live in, because I had just taken out 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.600 a bunch of books, and we spoke, and I remember 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.839 feeling this utter sense of warmth emanating from the two 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.600 of you, and you were both open to any idea 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.520 that I had and ready to ready to really just 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.240 tackle the story and go wherever I asked you to go. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:27.800 And whether it was fly to la or down to 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.520 San fran from Portland or whatever whatever it was, you 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.320 were both ready to do anything. And I asked you, 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.000 you know, if you would be willing to be the hosts. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.000 Wait wait, wait, wait, I got to throw this in. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.160 So I remember where I was. I was in my 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.360 car as well. You know, This was before twenty twenty 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.000 when everything shut down. San Francisco was still bustling, people 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.880 were walking everywhere, and we were getting this call from 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.080 Zach Levitt. You know, Sam said, you're going to get 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.120 this call from Zach Levitt. He wants to talk to 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.480 both of you. And I just remember feeling so I 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.640 always like to describe it as just you cradled us, 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.360 you know what I mean, Like you made us feel 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:14.800 so at home in that very first conversation. From that moment, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.280 we you know, literally fell in love with you. And 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.640 you know that that doesn't happen often, but we could 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.600 tell that. You know, you were a solid, solid guy 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.400 who really wanted to do the story right. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:28.480 Thank you. 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.680 And you have to remember too, we have to tell 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.240 our listeners this story. I remember, and I don't know 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.360 if it was in that first conversation. And yes, I 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.520 remember where I was. I was five feet from where 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.640 I am right now since I'm recording in my closet. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.720 I was in my bedroom and I was instantly captivated 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:46.920 by your voice and I'm like, oh my god, like 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.200 I could listen to you talk for hours. But I 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.360 remember you saying, and I don't remember if it was 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.240 that first. I know, Zach, I know you don't like 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.000 your voice, but I love your fat Zach. 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.920 Accept it. You're a podcast post. Now you're in our 0:15:58.960 --> 0:15:59.680 same realm. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.560 But I remember, and I don't remember if it was 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.200 that very first conversation or the thousands we had after that, 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.240 but you're like, all right, Yvett and Russia like I'm 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.080 not sure which one of you I'm going to pick 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:11.840 as the host. 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.160 Wow, I don't remember that. I was probably like hedging 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.400 my best or something like right. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.360 And and we're like, yeah, you know, it's we're just 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.920 happy to be a part of it. And Mom, you know, 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.920 it's like she knew what a podcast was before podcasts existed, 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.680 because she started recording and making all these recordings for 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:29.760 years and years and years. 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.280 And you know, Yvette and I have never had jealousy 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:34.720 anything like that, and we're like. 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.840 Never never any competition. So we were like, okay, well whoever. 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.920 Yep, whatever, and then you were like, no, it has 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:43.200 to be the two of you. I mean you tell 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:43.720 us like. 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.320 Yeah, well, I do remember that part because and I 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.800 think I told you this early on when we when 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.400 we first met. I've never seen siblings and I have 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.000 a brother that I'm super close with, but I've never 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:00.520 seen siblings. There is no competition, there is no jealousy, 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.960 There is nothing between the two of you except this, 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.480 like I said before, this warmth. And you weren't proscriptive 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.320 about it, like you know, we do everything together. But 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.560 it was evident right from the start that this is 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.480 how it had to be because you were finishing each 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.280 other's sentences, and I mean it was like it was 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.400 like you were twins or something. But yeah, the energy 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.280 I knew that having the two of you together, and 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.879 also you leaned on each other emotionally. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:29.680 Yeah we just lost mom. 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.320 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you were both in there for 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.919 each other. And then hearing you talk about one another 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.840 that was the selling point. And you know, I do 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.680 have to say because there was there was a consideration, 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.600 like you know, early on, you know, when I took 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.679 the job, it's like, Okay, everybody's got a podcast, right, 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.800 it's like running dough, yeah, media or wherever, you know, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.160 listen to my podcast, and and you know, everybody sort 0:17:55.200 --> 0:18:01.000 of takes that opportunity to put themselves out there right 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.200 and and to be you know, to have their own 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.680 podcast and to be a host and that was never 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.360 really a consideration for me, especially with this story, because 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.159 one of the things, you know, when people ask me, 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:16.720 you know what, what is sort of one of the 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.920 overriding thoughts that you have as you're making these stories, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:21.720 and I always say, get out of the way of 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:26.000 the story. And again it sounds you know, it sounds cliche, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.399 and it probably is. But for me, it was like, 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.399 you know, if I can get the people that I 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.359 need to to to open up and to talk, the 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.800 story is great, and what the hell can I add 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.760 to it other than putting it together and writing it 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.080 and sort of shepherding it. But it's it's not my 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.240 story to tell, So it was never going to be 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.480 a consideration for me to host it myself. Which is 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.560 funny because I have come full circle on now with 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.120 with which we'll talk about later, the set coming out 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.840 which I'm which I'm hosting. But the other thing was 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:07.200 that I absolutely hate my voice, hate love and I 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:08.040 to it. 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:10.680 You're just a perfectionist, Zach, and I have to say 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.399 that right now and put that out there, like you 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:18.360 are a perfectionists because you're a true storyteller and you 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.280 want to get it one hundred million percent right every 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:21.960 single time. 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.959 That's true to my own detriment something. But in addition 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.359 to hearing you know, the way the two of you 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.879 interacted with one another, it was also your voices. I 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.879 was like, holy shit, your voices are so good and 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.880 totally ready to do this, And so yeah, we were. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.440 We were sort of off and running. But of course 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.600 at that point I had no idea who was who 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.560 and how deep the story. 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:52.520 Would get, right, and you know, talking about that on 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.240 that level, we and I mean, I'm going to speak 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:57.720 for you bet here, and I know she'll chime in. 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:04.480 We never thought that our Hodel o'hanna, our Hodel family 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.400 would sign on, only because Yvette and I have well, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.399 I've been much more open than Evett. But our mom, 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.280 you know, told everyone she ever met her story and 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:19.320 wanted to hear other people's stories as well, but everyone 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.960 else was much more private. So I would love to 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:29.160 know how you got our great uncle Steve, our uncle Peace, 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:34.280 our uncle Love, our you know uncle Joy, our our 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:39.240 aunt f two. Everybody like, how how did that happen? 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.080 Well, first of all, when I heard from you that 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.600 you had uncles named Peace, Love and. 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.760 Joy, Yeah, that doesn't happen every day myself. 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:52.880 I grew up in Woodstock, New York. 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.760 I mean, and you've never heard of a Peace, Love 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:57.280 and Joy. 0:20:57.760 --> 0:20:59.239 You know. I know a lot of people with some 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.639 interesting names, but when I heard that their their names 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:07.080 were Peace, Love and Joy, I said, Okay, that's interesting. 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.520 I at least want to talk to them. That's that's 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.280 really interesting. But before I even got there, I knew 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:18.280 I wanted to speak with Steve, with Uncle Steve Odell, 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:24.000 because I knew that in order to tell Fauna's story 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.240 that you know, the black dahlia had to be a 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.080 part of it. Absolutely Obviously, that's going to be the 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:34.040 thing that people recognize, and it's a trojan horse, really 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.679 great to tell this bigger story of the family. And 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.680 I also, with or without Steve, this was always going 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:44.879 to be a story about family, because there was no 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.120 way that I was going to just do a black 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.600 dahlia story. It had been done so many times. I 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.600 knew I could bring some level of authenticity to it. 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.840 But if it were just about the black Dallia, it 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:01.840 was going to be viewed as something sensational and you know, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.359 capitalizing on this gruesome, unsolved murder. And I did not 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.920 want that, Yeah, And I think that that's what we 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.600 connected on for sure. And I think when I when 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.480 I told you that I really wanted to tell the 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.400 story of the family. You know, my sort of entry 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.560 point was who would give away this baby to, you know, 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.919 to a family in Sparks, Nevada, Nevada, a black family 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.879 and tell them that she's black when she wasn't and 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.159 put her through this turmoil of having no idea who 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.760 she was? And you know what is that all about? 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:37.879 Like why why would that happen? And you know you 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.200 mentioned the onion analogy before, and it's it's it's like, 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:44.639 once you start asking that first question, you're in the 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:45.200 rabbit hole. 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:45.560 Yeah. 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.840 Yeah, and the Black Dahlia is a whole other, enormous 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.040