1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitch Show on 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm Heeartradio. My guest today is Michael Kaplan. Michael is 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: the author of the new book Advantage Players, which takes 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: a look at people who are in gambling and beyond. 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: He's also a senior features writer at the best newspaper 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: in the country, The New York Post, and the gambling 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: columnist for Cigar Aficionado. He has written four other books 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: and has done stories for publication that include The New 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: York Times, magazine, GQ, and Wired. Hi Michael, so nice 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: to have you on. 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: Hi, Carol, It's so great to see you. Thank you 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: for having me. 13 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: Our connection story is I think very cool. We met 14 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: playing poker and knew each other for years because of 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: a long running poker game in New York Cities. Shout 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: out to our friend Charlie. Are you still playing? 17 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: I do? I do? 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 3: I mean it seems a little bit more sporadic because 19 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 3: Charlie's always traveling and you know, I don't know I 20 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 3: still have it, and because he does it on Saturday 21 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 3: nights now, so sometimes that can be tougher to make. 22 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 3: Friday nights were perfect. You know, Saturday can be tougher, 23 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 3: but yeah, I love playing in that game. It's so 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 3: much fun, meet the coolest people there, and most you 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 3: could lose his sixty dollars unless you start playing cash, 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 3: which could get. 27 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: The cash game gets gets kind of nuts afterwards. But yeah, 28 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: the tournament is a low stakes tournament, but it's super 29 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: fun and super competitive despite the fact that you could 30 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: only lose sixty dollars. 31 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 2: It's so organized. 32 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 3: I mean, I've played a lot of you know, I 33 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: don't know, let's say, underground poker clubs in New York 34 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 3: that had tournaments were way less organized than it's. 35 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: Like, it's great. 36 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: Now he lays out all this amazing great selection of 37 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: whiskeys and tequilas and. 38 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: Stuff, and it's just it's fun. It's so much fun. 39 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 3: I want people there who knew almost nothing about poker 40 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: and they had a blast playing. 41 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: It's really a good time. 42 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's And I meet people from that game all 43 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: over the place, like, oh, you know, it's a wide 44 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: few people. Your book sounds like it's going to be 45 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: just about gamblers, but you also talk about everyday advantage 46 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: players who are lawyers and strippers and magicians and movie directors. 47 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: What's the connection between all of them. 48 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: I think there are people who work really really hard, Like. 49 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: That's the main thing. 50 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: I mean, like to do this stuff, you have to 51 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: work really really hard and be devoted completely to your craft. 52 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's that. And I also think 53 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 3: that there are people who kind of figure out a 54 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 3: way to do things that other people can't figure out. 55 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 3: And I don't think anybody sits there and says, oh, 56 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 3: I'm going to think outside of the box. 57 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to come up with a new way of 58 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: doing it. 59 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 3: But I do think that there are people who think 60 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: about what they do enough that they come up with 61 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 3: special ways of doing it. And I think that people 62 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: who maybe take a more casual approach to what they're 63 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 3: doing won't think about it as much and won't come 64 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 3: up with those kinds of techniques or strategies to do 65 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: special things. I mean, it's like those guys, the Safti brothers. 66 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 3: I mean, they're these amazing directors. 67 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: You know. 68 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 3: Uncut Gems was their first giant hip, but before that, 69 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: they did a movie called Good Time, which was how 70 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 3: I found out about them. And their movies are loaded, 71 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 3: like theyose star people who've never acted in movies before. 72 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: And I talked to Ron Shelton and he explained to 73 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: me because he used a lot of professional athletes in 74 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: some of his movies like Bulldoorum and Tincup, and he 75 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 3: was saying, it's so hard to get performances out of 76 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 3: people who don't know how to do it. 77 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: Acting is really really hard. 78 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: But somehow the Safti brothers managed to get these amazing, 79 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: super believable performances, and they figured out a way to 80 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 3: do it that other directors you know, can't or won't. 81 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: So I find it really fascinating these people who come 82 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 3: up with ways of doing things that other people either 83 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 3: haven't thought of, or can't think of or. 84 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: Won't think of. 85 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: What's your favorite of the advantage players you feature in the. 86 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: Book, Well, okay, so you know my favorite, of course 87 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: is the epilogue of the book talks about me being 88 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: diagnosed with an incurable cancer called mental sellom foma and 89 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 3: I was about to get brutal chemotherapy and I found 90 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: a treatment that was created by a doctor in Australia 91 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 3: for this very rare disease. And I mean it used 92 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 3: no chemo and involved taking six pills a day, and 93 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 3: that do very specific targeted things to the cancer and 94 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 3: getting an infusion every eight weeks of this drug called 95 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 3: a tuxamab, and I as of August, I've had zero 96 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: percent cancer in my blood. That's after having been diagnosed 97 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 3: with what was essentially stage four cancer. My bone marrow 98 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 3: was like forty percent cancer. So that guy is my 99 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 3: favorite advantage player in the book. He's the number one 100 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: for me, but I also love I mean, there's a 101 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: there's a guy named James Gross Jane who's like a 102 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 3: genius at beating casino games. 103 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 2: And this guy will. 104 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 3: Figure out ways to beat games that casino's view is unbeatable, 105 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: to run these involved computer programs and find, you know, 106 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: things in the game that people who created the game overlooked. 107 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: Like he understands the game better than the guys who 108 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 3: created the game, which is pretty amazing. And then I'll 109 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 3: bring in his team and they've taken millions and millions 110 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 3: of dollars out of casinos. 111 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: And he works really really hard. 112 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: I mean, the guy's got, you know, an applied math 113 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: degree from Harvard, so he could have done a lot 114 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,119 Speaker 3: of different things and he chose to go that route. 115 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 3: And I mean the stuff he does is pretty. 116 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: Amazing somebody help their child grow up to be an 117 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: advantage player. Like, what advice would you give if you were, 118 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, parenting from day one. I know your girls 119 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: are post. 120 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 3: College now, probably one's about the graduate and one is 121 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: out of college. 122 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of wish I did think. 123 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 1: That you are starting it all over again. 124 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: What would you do serve. 125 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 3: My kids into many advantage players. I think I would 126 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: just show them a way to look at the world 127 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: a little bit differently, like to look at situations and 128 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: maybe see more than what immediately meets the eye, Like 129 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: I mean from you know, like the people who are 130 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: advantage players do everything the right way. Like they'll walk 131 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 3: to a place the shortest way possible. They'll realize that, oh, 132 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: if you drive fifty five miles instead of sixty mile 133 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: fifty five miles an hour instead of sixty miles an hour, 134 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 3: it reduces your likelihood of getting to an accident bite 135 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: nex per set. I mean I would I think I 136 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: think it's a matter of like showing them things and saying, listen, 137 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: there's a better way to do every single thing. 138 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: You know. 139 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 3: It's like, you know when people talk about positive ev 140 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: you know, positive expected value. I mean that exists in everything, 141 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: not just like a hand of cards or a stock 142 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: market investment or something like that. And I think I 143 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 3: would encourage my kids to see where expected value is 144 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 3: and like to learn about that and to learn that 145 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 3: there's two ways to do everything, and you know, you 146 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: could do it the way that's going to be the 147 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 3: most profitable, the most rewarding, or the most beneficial to 148 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 3: maybe many people. 149 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: I think that's kind of it. 150 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: It's funny that positive expected value. I remember in the 151 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: poker forums, like when somebody would mention a girlfriend, it 152 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: would be like, oh, that's a negative expected value. 153 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: Exactly, we do this. Everything is about ev. 154 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: Right, absolutely. So in the book, you mentioned you placed 155 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: a bet for Heidi Flis, the famous Hollywood madam, when 156 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: she couldn't make one herself. What was that story about? 157 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: Oh we will. 158 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: There was a there was a period of time, Okay, 159 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: so it's kind of a little bit of a story. 160 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 3: Whenever I come to Vegas, I used to play on 161 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 3: a pretty big card counting team. I still liked to 162 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: card count, but not for giants stakes or anything. And 163 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 3: he loves to gamble up blackjack, So whenever we hang out, 164 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 3: we'll play blackjack. 165 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: Together. 166 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 3: And the great thing about playing with Heidi is she 167 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 3: just wants to gamble, so she'll let me sit there 168 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: and count and jump in when it gets good. And 169 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 3: I said to I said, you know it's bad for 170 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: you for me to do this. She says, I don't care. 171 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 3: I'm just gambling. You can do whatever you want, which, well, 172 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 3: you should at least raise your bet if you see 173 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: me betting. 174 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: She's like, okay, it's not that hands advantage playing really exactly. 175 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: And I said to her, I said, listen, you got 176 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 3: to know I'm the biggest knit. I won't even make 177 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 3: a bet, a sports bet unless I know somebody told 178 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: me who knows what they're talking about, that. 179 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 2: That was, you know, a good bet to make. 180 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 3: And she goes, oh, do you know you know anybody 181 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 3: could talk about NCAA. It was like there was you 182 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 3: know during the basketball season, do you have any good 183 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: NCAA picks for this weekend? Like, well, there's one guy 184 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 3: I know who would tell me, but he hates he 185 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 3: hates giving out picks because he bets all the time 186 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 3: and if you bet once in a while and you lose, 187 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: he's going to feel bad. 188 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 2: And so this guy she knew who he was. He 189 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: was excited. I called him. 190 00:08:58,240 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: He loved harder Goes, I will give you picks for 191 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 3: Heidi flies. So we were betting all the time, and 192 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: she couldn't. 193 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that she I don't know. 194 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: Why she couldn't get down somewhere there was a place 195 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: where she wanted to bet, and for some reason they 196 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 3: wouldn't take her bet. Maybe I don't know. I don't 197 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: remember now what this issue wasn't for a lack of money, 198 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 3: that was for sure. Maybe she could bet her limit. 199 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 2: I think that she had. 200 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 3: There was a limit every day of how much you 201 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 3: could bet, and I think she had hit her limit. 202 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 2: So she asked me to place a bet for her. 203 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 3: So I think she bet like two grand on some 204 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: sports you know, on some NCA game that this guy 205 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 3: Alan Boston told us to bet on. And yeah, I 206 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 3: made the bet without even thinking twice. And the second 207 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: I made the bet, the money was you know what 208 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: I mean in my account? I mean, but yeah, I 209 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 3: was very happy to make a bet for Heidi. She's awesome. 210 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: Her. 211 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 3: She lost the bet, Yeah, she didn't care, and I 212 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 3: felt bad. Oh my god, I feel bad that you lost. 213 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 3: Goes I'm a big girl. I've lost a lot of bets. 214 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: She didn't really bother her, which was the right answer. 215 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: You know, We're going to take a quick break and 216 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: be right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. Do you 217 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: think of yourself as an advantage player? 218 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 3: I think of myself as an advantage player in some ways. 219 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I certainly was an advantage player blackjack. I'm 220 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 3: an advantage player at kind of low buy in poker 221 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 3: tournaments with bad players. I think of myself as being 222 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: a bit of an advantage player in life. I mean 223 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 3: I certainly was when I got diagnosed with the cancer, 224 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 3: and I made sure I found the best possible treatment. 225 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 3: I didn't just settle for getting brutal chemo. I think 226 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 3: when I do I think as a journalist, I think 227 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 3: I'm a bit of an advantage player. How I approach 228 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 3: stories and how I interview people. I mean, I'll ask 229 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 3: questions sometimes that makes seem a little weird, and it 230 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 3: kind of gets things going. And I never take no 231 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 3: for an answer from people. I really really get them. 232 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 3: I really try to get what I can get out 233 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: of them. And I think also becoming a journalist in 234 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 3: itself was like a mega advantage play because it's just 235 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 3: been the greatest life. I've gotten to meet so many 236 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 3: cool people, traveled all over the world doing stories. I've 237 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 3: had amazing experiences, get to write for a living. I 238 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: mean that's pretty good, pretty good. That's an advantage play 239 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 3: in and of itself. So yeah, I do think of 240 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 3: myself as an advantage player, and I try. 241 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: I do try to find edges at things. 242 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 3: I mean, not always like as obsessed as some people 243 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 3: who just do it for a living. 244 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 2: Art Like, I mean, I like positive EV but I 245 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 2: probably should be more positive EV driven than I am. 246 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: I shouldn't let it, I shouldn't leave anything on the table, 247 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: but I do because sometimes it's worth it to do. 248 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 249 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to find the positive V 250 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: and everything. I don't know that I'm an advantage player. 251 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: I'm a sometimes advantage exactly exactly What do you worry about? 252 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: That's an interesting question. 253 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 3: I worry a lot about whatever's in front of me 254 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: at that moment. It's like, because I go for this 255 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: infusion of raretuximab every eight weeks, so every seven weeks, 256 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 3: I worry, like I'm like, oh, creak in my back, 257 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: Oh my finger hurt me. 258 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: Oh, I was coughing, Like the cancer is back. 259 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 3: The doctor says, don't worry, like it's not going to 260 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 3: come roaring back, and you know in eight weeks. But 261 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 3: so I worry about when that's in front of me. 262 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 3: When I was doing this book, I endlessly worried about 263 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 3: like every little page, every little comment, every word drove 264 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 3: the publisher crazy. Like I worry about exactly what's in 265 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: front of me. Like if some things are now with 266 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 3: my kids, I worry about that in the moment, but I. 267 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: Don't sit around worrying about them. 268 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: It's weird, like I seem to worry a lot about 269 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: whatever I'm focused on at that moment, Like right now, 270 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 3: I'm worried about getting a lot of publicity for this 271 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 3: book and selling books and pushing it all and turning 272 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 3: people onto like this way of thinking and hoping that 273 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 3: they get inspired by the book. 274 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I could see this book being a hit. 275 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: I think it's a really good concept. 276 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate the optimism. 277 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean, we're in this moment of everybody's trying to 278 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: maximize their potential and learn the better way to do 279 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: things and the advantage player guide of you know, try 280 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,599 Speaker 1: to do everything in your life as most efficiently and 281 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: in the best way as possible. I really I could 282 00:12:59,640 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: see that. 283 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope so, I mean, I hope that people 284 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: see it and that they get inspiration from it. 285 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: And because it was. 286 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 3: Funny, I was talking, and I think people like the 287 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 3: term advantage player, like if you're if you're in the 288 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: gambling world, like you know, that's a pretty common term 289 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 3: among casino gamblers, but people who don't don't do that, 290 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 3: it's not really that known of a term. I mean, 291 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: I was, I was. Somebody said to me, well, what's 292 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: the formula. I'm like, well, it's not the kind of 293 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 3: book where there's like a formula. I kind of have 294 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: to It kind of should inspire you on how to 295 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 3: think rather than oh, if you do these three things, 296 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 3: you're going to be a millionaire and or a billionaire. 297 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: If you have those let us know, oh I. 298 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: Will, I will, I will employ them, don't worry. And 299 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 3: but you know, I don't know, like I think, I 300 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 3: think it's hopefully will show people a way to think. 301 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 3: And I kind of a philosophy a little bit for life. 302 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: What would you tell your sixteen year old self, what 303 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: would a sixteen year old Michael need. 304 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 3: To know, tell them to work really hard, to to 305 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 3: give yourself a chance to get lucky. Like you know, 306 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: if you see an opportunity to not freeze up and 307 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 3: not take it. I mean, like I got like one thing, 308 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: I got two things. I got really lucky with where 309 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 3: when I was like living in like a rental apartment 310 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 3: in Manhattan, it came up for sale and I was 311 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: able to buy at a reasonable price. I bought that, 312 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: and then the neighborhood kind of blew up. It was 313 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 3: in Chelsea. The neighborhood blew up, and I was able 314 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: to sell that, and then I bought a Brownstone and 315 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: Park Slope and that kind of has blown up. And 316 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 3: I was like, I basically when I bought the place, 317 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 3: it was like I think it was selling for I 318 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: think I had to put down a fourteen thousand dollars 319 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 3: down payment. I had twenty grand to my name, and 320 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: you know, I had to pay a couple of grand 321 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 3: for a lawyer. So I was left with just a 322 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 3: few thousand dollars. But I just felt like I wanted 323 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: to get lucky. I mean, I think that's what I 324 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 3: would tell myself, like to see opportunities that may not 325 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: seem like complete locks in that moment, and just if 326 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: it seems right to take a shot. 327 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 2: If you wait, then you're going to lose it. 328 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 3: And to just kind of give yourself a chance to 329 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 3: get lucky with things and to work super hard and 330 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 3: to be focused and you know, to be a good person. 331 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: And also you know what, this is the one other thing, 332 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 3: like when you see somebody who's like even a little 333 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 3: bit worse off than you, to have some empathy. At 334 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: least have empathy, not I saying, oh, give that person 335 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: your money, which you can, but at least have empathy 336 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 3: for them and kind of get it that like everybody's 337 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: not as I don't know, together or well offer has 338 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 3: going what you have going, and you know, try to, 339 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 3: I don't know, show them a little bit of love, 340 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: you know. 341 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, did you see that trait or the empathy trait 342 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: a lot in the advantage players or are they focus 343 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:42,239 Speaker 1: on themselves? 344 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: It's interesting? Let me think about that. 345 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 3: Well, I mean some because some advantage players are insanely generous, 346 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 3: like they'll I think it goes both ways, like some 347 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: are crazy generous and some are so because you do 348 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 3: have to eat the same even being a journalist, you 349 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 3: have to be a little bit selfish. You have to 350 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 3: be a little bit self absorbed to do it, and 351 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 3: you have to kind of sort of have a big 352 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 3: enough ego, Like it takes a lot. It takes a 353 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 3: lot to be an advantage player. Like to walk into 354 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 3: a casino that was like build for billions of dollars. 355 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 3: They've got millions of dollars in security and surveillance. They've 356 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 3: got people there to stop people like you. That's their job. 357 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 3: To go in there and think you could do your 358 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 3: thing and take their money and walk out, then come 359 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 3: back the next day. 360 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: And do it again. 361 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 3: That takes like a lot of confidence. So maybe that's 362 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: another thing that I want I would tell myself, like 363 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 3: to be confident that you could do things and to 364 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: not get scared because there's some you know, you know, 365 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 3: organization or some group that's like way bigger than you 366 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 3: kind of saying you can't do it. 367 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: Like, don't let that stop you. 368 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 369 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. Did you see any 370 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: particular traits in all of them? In all the people 371 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: that you covered, was there I need to say. 372 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 3: The drive like this drive and never never giving up 373 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: and like just doing it, like you know, the Safti brothers. 374 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 3: Like people think, oh, those guys you know, came from 375 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 3: out of nowhere, Like they work so hard, Like out 376 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 3: of college. They're making industrial movies. They were making music videos. 377 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 3: They were doing everything they can get their hands on. 378 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: They made these early like their early movies that got 379 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: them where they are. They made them for no money. 380 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I don't know, like you know 381 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: this guy, there's a guy in there, you know, I 382 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 3: don't know Eddie Teams. I mean he just was relentless. 383 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 3: I mean, like it's funny I met him. He's one 384 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 3: of the guys in the book. And this guy is 385 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 3: like incredibly sharp. He is a guy who would like 386 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 3: look at like one of the things he would do 387 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 3: is casinos would have like if you played enough slot machines, 388 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 3: they would then have a drawing at the end where 389 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: they'd be like, you know, ten the ten biggest players 390 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: of that weekend would get a chance to draw a 391 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 3: card with a blank you know, white back, and you know, 392 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 3: the worst prize is let's say a win breaker, and 393 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 3: first prize you know is a I don't know you know, 394 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollars car, so you want to get the 395 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollars car. And he trained himself to like 396 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: look and find the tiny little difference on that card 397 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: and then to come back and play enough to be 398 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 3: the first to pick, and then to pick that card 399 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 3: and win. He's had multiple cars doing stuff like that. 400 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 3: But when I first met him, it was at a 401 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: blackjack tournament and he was walking around with a book 402 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 3: filled with like post it notes sticking out of the book, 403 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 3: a blackjack tournament book. I'm like, my god, is there 404 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 3: anything corny or this guy brought a tournament book to 405 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 3: the tournament with all these post it notes. And I 406 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 3: didn't know who he was at the time. Then he 407 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 3: knew some people I knew. We sat down to have 408 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 3: breakfast and he's talking about things he did in the tournament. 409 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: I realized, this guy is at a whole other level. 410 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 2: Than I am. 411 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 3: And I also found out that his bookshelves are loaded 412 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 3: with books on all kinds of topics and they all 413 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 3: have a zillion post it notes sticking out and he 414 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 3: reads them before he does anything associated to that. 415 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: So I think there's an element. 416 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 3: Of that kind of obsessiveness and hard work and just 417 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 3: not giving up. 418 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 2: That is a trait that you need. 419 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: You might not know the answer to this, but are 420 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: they born with it or is it something that they develop. 421 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: I love the idea of the advantage player. I love 422 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: the idea of teaching yourself to become the advantage player. 423 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: But is it possible or is it just something that they, 424 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: you know, came here. 425 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 3: I think anybody could make themselves an advantage player at something. 426 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 3: I think everybody has the advantage player in them. 427 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 2: You know. 428 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: Listen, some people are just they just have a knack. 429 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 3: They're born with a certain gene almost. But I think 430 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 3: they are people who got good at something and then, 431 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 3: you know, just push themselves to get better and better. 432 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 3: I mean, and I don't know that something clicked in 433 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 3: their mind. I mean that made them want to do 434 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 3: this particular thing and just work relentlessly at it. I mean, 435 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 3: I was trying to somebody. A friend of mine's had 436 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 3: a fred whose daughter is in college and she wants 437 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 3: to be a journalist, and she was asking me about it. 438 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: I said, look, I go. 439 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 3: The thing is if it's not the thing you and 440 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: this is like the advantage player mindset. If it's not 441 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 3: the thing you want to do more than anything else 442 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 3: in the world, Like, don't do one of these hard things, 443 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 3: like do something easier. And if you would rather hang 444 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 3: out with your friends than do this thing, it's probably 445 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 3: not for you. If you would rather hang out with 446 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: your friends than go whack games in a casino, you're 447 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: probably not really an advantage play like these guys. The 448 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 3: great line from James gros Geen is he goes if 449 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 3: there's a good game, I'll go to places where the 450 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 3: cell phones don't work, like being he'll go anywhere, like 451 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: go to the remote, remote locations. Like he's not looking 452 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 3: to stay in fancy hotels. He's looking for games he 453 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 3: can crush. And he'll get on a plane and fly 454 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 3: to some far flung place on no notice if there's 455 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 3: a certain promotion, or if a game is on, or 456 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 3: if there's a dealer who's giving up whole cards. 457 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 2: I mean, you have to have that kind of drive 458 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: to be. 459 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: Successful in one of these kind of advantage playing worlds. 460 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: In my opinion, when I first not when I first 461 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: got into poker, but when I was really into poker, 462 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: when my friend and I were going to Atlantic City, 463 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: you know, multiple times a week or that kind of thing. 464 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: We were always looking for the beatable games, and so 465 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: they weren't at the comfortable casinos. They weren't at Bargotta, 466 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,719 Speaker 1: Borgotta had all the best players. They were at like 467 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: the resorts, which had two tables. That was our favorite 468 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: place to play. It was two poker tables in the 469 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: middle of the casino floor. So like some guy who 470 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: just wanted craps would like wander over with a beer 471 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: in his hand and be like, let me try some poker. 472 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: I've seen it on TV. And those were the games 473 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: that we wanted to play in, and people thought we 474 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: were crazy. They thought, why wouldn't you want to go 475 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: play in the place with the big comfy chairs and 476 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: the nice room and the whatever. We'd be like, that's 477 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: not where the winnable games are. And I, you know, 478 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: I wonder about that in life, like maybe maybe I've 479 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: been looking for the cushy chairs and missing the places 480 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: where winning is easier. 481 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 3: I think I think there's an element to that. I 482 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: think there definitely is. I mean, like, when I like 483 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 3: the place, there's a place where I really like to 484 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 3: play black check and cardcat. 485 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 2: When I'm in Vegas, I don't want to say the 486 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: name of it. 487 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: Resorts doesn't have a poker room anymore, doesn't have a 488 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: poker anymore, so I don't even think it exists anymore. 489 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: So it's okay, It's okay for me. 490 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a total dump Downtown. They have a 491 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 3: great double deck game and it's really beatable. And because 492 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 3: I don't play that much, so my skills are kind 493 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 3: of rusty. I'm not like as sharp, but just as 494 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 3: I was at one point, and I can go there 495 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 3: and I feel like I'm playing the game with a 496 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 3: little bit of an edge and it's low steak, so 497 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm able to spread without having a giant 498 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, I'm not going to You 499 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 3: can lose, trust me. You can be in a great 500 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 3: situation still get crushed. 501 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 2: But I don't know. 502 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, I do think there's something to be 503 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 3: said for that, like for finding the thing that other 504 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 3: people don't want to do, or the place where they 505 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: don't want to play. Yeah, and that's and listen when 506 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 3: I say the place they don't want to play, that 507 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 3: applies to everything in life. It's not just casinos. I mean, 508 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 3: it could be the job, the profession. 509 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 2: You know. 510 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 3: I talked to somebody once who was I was doing 511 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 3: a story actually on people who made money in like 512 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 3: unlikely professions, and was a guy. This guy had an 513 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 3: MBA and he could have done a lot of things, 514 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: and he got into the animal rendering business, which not 515 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 3: a lot of people want to be in. It's not 516 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 3: trust me, it's not glamorous, you know, dealing with but 517 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 3: he made he said it was. It's the business where 518 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 3: he was able to make a ton of money because 519 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 3: there was just so much opportunity that was untapped, and 520 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: if you were really smart and came in there, you 521 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 3: had chances that like you didn't have if you went 522 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 3: to work on Wall Street, where everybody's just as smart 523 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: as you will. 524 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a really really good point. Well, I've 525 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: loved this conversation. I can't wait to read Advantage Players. 526 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: I leave us here with your best tip for my 527 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: listeners on how they can improve their lives. 528 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: Say, the best thing you could do is, you know, 529 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 3: take trips to his exotical places you could find, listen 530 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 3: to a lot of music, read a lot, just enjoy 531 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 3: life and be nice and get the most you can 532 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 3: out of things. 533 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. 534 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 3: I think like that taking in experiences will make life 535 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 3: better for everybody and all the people around you. 536 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: Also, he is Michael Kaplan. Check out his book Advantage 537 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,479 Speaker 1: Players anywhere books are sold. Thank you so much for 538 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: coming on, Michael. 539 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. This was fantastic.