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Speaker 1: Welcome to good game of Sarah Spain, where we're duct

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Speaker 1: taping pillows to our shins, throwing on a bicycle helmet.

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Speaker 2: And popping in our night guards.

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Speaker 1: The PWHL Playoffs start tonight at Toronto and we're ready coach.

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Speaker 2: Even if just from our couches.

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Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, May seventh, and on today's show, we'll be

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Speaker 1: chatting with two studs from the Women's Sports Foundation CEO

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Speaker 1: Dennett Layton and Vice President of Advocacy Sarah Axelson about

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Speaker 1: the state of the ORG fifty one years in fighting

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Speaker 1: for Title nine compliance and the implications of the House

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Speaker 1: versus NCAA settlement on women's college sports. Plus the PWHL

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Speaker 1: takes choosing your opponent to the next level, fits worthy

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Speaker 1: of Fashion's biggest night, and an announcement that stinks more

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Speaker 1: than poop in your pants. It's all coming up right

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Speaker 1: after this welcome back slices. Here's what you need to

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Speaker 1: know today. Let's start with the PWHL where the four

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Speaker 1: team playoffs get underweight tonight, Number two Toronto Scepters hosting

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Speaker 1: the number four Minnesota Frost for Game one of that

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Speaker 1: semi final series. Now we know what some of your

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Speaker 1: thinking the four seed in the two seed, don't most

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Speaker 1: semi finals feature the number one seed versus the number

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Speaker 1: four seed.

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Speaker 2: Well, as we mentioned.

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Speaker 1: Earlier this week, that's usually true, but not in the PWHL.

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Speaker 1: The league instead lets the top seed pick whether it

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Speaker 1: wants to play the number three or number four seed,

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Speaker 1: and this year the number one Montreal Victoire decided they'd

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Speaker 1: rather face the number three Ottawa Charge instead of the

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Speaker 1: number four Minnesota Frost, last year's defending Chaps.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe those visuals of Kendall Cooins Schofield and company skating

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Speaker 1: around the ice with the Walter Cup in their hands

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Speaker 1: have Montreal a bit shook.

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Speaker 2: Either way.

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Speaker 1: It'll be Minnesota and Toronto getting things started tonight at

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Speaker 1: Coca Cola Coliseum in Toronto, with Montreal and Ottawa facing

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Speaker 1: off tomorrow at Plas bell and Laval Quebec, just outside Montreal.

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Speaker 1: Both semi finals are best of five, with the two

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Speaker 1: winning teams moving on.

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Speaker 2: To the Walter Cup Finals, also best of five.

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Speaker 1: We'll link to the full playoff schedule and broadcast info

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Speaker 1: in our show notes to the WNBA, where preseason games

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Speaker 1: continue today with the Shington Mystics in Atlanta, Dream tipping

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Speaker 1: off early and eleven thirty am Eastern start. That game

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Speaker 1: will likely feature new Dream player Cheyenne Sellars, who was

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Speaker 1: selected by the Golden State Valkyries with the seventeenth overall

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Speaker 1: pick in the WNBA draft, but was already waived by

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Speaker 1: the expansion team. Over the weekend, the Dream picked up

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Speaker 1: the former Maryland star off the waiver wire, so she'll

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Speaker 1: be looking to make a statement in this preseason test

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Speaker 1: and hope her tenure with this team sticks. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: the Valkyries, the teams announced its local broadcast team for

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five season, a group that will include

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Speaker 1: former WNBA star and friend of the Show Lesia Clarendon,

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Speaker 1: who will do in studio coverage for select games. Wait

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Speaker 1: to Go Lay Can't wait to hear You on the mic.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of former WNBA players in the media, shout out

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Speaker 1: Sue Byrd on her new podcast, Yep, another one. It's

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Speaker 1: called Bird's Eye View. Unlike A Touch More the sports

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Speaker 1: and culture show she hosts with fonce Megan Rapino, this

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Speaker 1: podcast promises to be all about basketball. Sue spoke about

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Speaker 1: our vision for the show on social media on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: take a list.

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Speaker 3: And it's all about the WNBA. I've literally spent my

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Speaker 3: entire life in this game as a player now as

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Speaker 3: a fan, and.

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Speaker 4: I'll get to talk about it every week.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna be breaking it all down, the matchups, what

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Speaker 3: stood out, who bawled out, why it all matters.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we can't wait for that one.

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Speaker 1: We'll link to the feed in our show notes to

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Speaker 1: the NWSL, where we've got a little ownership news expansion side.

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Speaker 1: Denver announced on Tuesday that American alpine skiing star Mikaela

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Speaker 1: Shiffrin is joining the team's ownership group. Schiffrin, who calls

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Speaker 1: Edwards Colorado home, said in a statement that she's quote

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Speaker 1: beyond thrilled to join the ownership group of Denver NWSL

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Speaker 1: and support something so meaningful in the community I call

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Speaker 1: home end quote. Finally, shout out to the athletes who

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Speaker 1: walk the red carpet at Monday Nights met Gala, including

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Speaker 1: Simone Biles, Angel Reese, Shakeri Richardson, Flaje Johnson and Serena

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Speaker 1: and Venus Williams, and the New York Liberty also well

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Speaker 1: represented with John Quell Jones, Brianna Stewart and Sabrinia and

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Speaker 1: Escu joining team owner Clara Wousai. Everybody, but I think

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Speaker 1: Angel Reese was my favorite. Not being a homer here,

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Speaker 1: I just think she absolutely nailed the theme, which was

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Speaker 1: super fine tailoring, black style, and the theme of black dandyism,

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Speaker 1: in particular the Tom Brown suit dress with the middrift cutout,

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Speaker 1: the retro flip in her hair, the makeup, in the styling,

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Speaker 1: it was just all perfection. I also loved John Quell

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Speaker 1: Jones taking a risk. She had this crocodile print jacket

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Speaker 1: and a super bold hairstyle. Her locks were like gathered

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Speaker 1: and twisted straight up in there and then accented by

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Speaker 1: gems and pearls.

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Speaker 2: It looked amazing.

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Speaker 1: Also not female athletes, but my other faves were Coleman, Debanngo,

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Speaker 1: Carrie Washington, Zendea, and Doci. By the way, also shout

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Speaker 1: out to the at NWSL insta account admin who dropped

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Speaker 1: the quote if NWSL kits had hit the met.

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Speaker 2: Gala carpet photos.

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Speaker 1: This entire thing is absolute perfection, but especially the Gotham

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Speaker 1: Times shaboozies fit and the halle Berry versus the Spirit

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Speaker 1: Black kits. It's so good you have to see it

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Speaker 1: for yourself. We'll put the link in our show notes.

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Speaker 1: We got to take a quick break, y'all. When we

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Speaker 1: come back, it's Tonet Layton and Sarah Axelson at the

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Speaker 1: Women's Sports Foundation stick around.

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Speaker 2: Slices.

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Speaker 1: Just to heads up, you might find it useful to

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to our episode from April twenty fifth,

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Speaker 1: called Keeping Lawyers in Business before you listen to this

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Speaker 1: conversation with Dennett and Sarah. That app is going to

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Speaker 1: help you understand the current and future landscape of women's

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Speaker 1: college sports and why we're already seeing some changes as

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Speaker 1: schools are preparing for post NCAA versus house budget crunches,

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Speaker 1: like schools hiring cheaper, less experienced coaches for their women's teams,

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Speaker 1: cutting summer programs. Also how schools are being forced to

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Speaker 1: spend money paying off lawsuit back pay and are choosing

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Speaker 1: to spend money to keep up with like football and

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Speaker 1: top men's sports demands, leaving less for everything else. It's

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Speaker 1: all still very much in play, but useful to listen

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Speaker 1: to that primer before you get to this combo. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's get to Dinnett and Sarah joining us. Now, she's

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Speaker 1: the CEO of the Women's Sports Foundation. Previous gigs include

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Speaker 1: Chief Marketing Officer of the PAC twelve Conference and VP

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Speaker 1: of Business Ops for the WNBA Sacramento Monarchs. We've shared

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Speaker 1: the stage in can France, and we've chopped it up

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Speaker 1: at Vice President Kamala Harris's house.

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Speaker 2: Where to next, Tonnette. It's Tonette Layton. Hi, Tonet, Hi, Sarah.

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Speaker 4: It's so fun to be with you today with her.

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Speaker 1: She's Vice President of Advocacy at the Women's Sports Foundation

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Speaker 1: and a sixteen year veteran of the organization.

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Speaker 2: A former college.

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Speaker 1: Softball player, now she scratches her competitive itch with kickboxing

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Speaker 1: and beach volleyball.

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Speaker 2: It's Sarah Axelson. Hey, Sarah, Hey, Sarah, nice to see you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us. I'm so excited to talk to

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Speaker 2: both of you.

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Speaker 1: So much to get to and you're sort of a

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Speaker 1: follow up episode to one we did not long ago,

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Speaker 1: trying to really get a grip on what the college

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Speaker 1: sports landscape is going to look like. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to get into all that in a minute, but I

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Speaker 1: just want to level set first with the Women's Sports Foundation.

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Speaker 1: Denett I was their last year when y'all celebrated your

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Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary an incredible event. Congratulations on that. Now you're

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Speaker 1: just fifty one. How do you describe Women's Sports Foundation

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Speaker 1: of fifty one?

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Speaker 4: We get asked that question a lot, and I would

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Speaker 4: love to tell you that we're not needed, but the

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Speaker 4: reality is, I think we're more needed than ever before.

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Speaker 4: And so for us, you know, we've really been rooted

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Speaker 4: in the reality that we look at the entire ecosystem.

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Speaker 4: So we care about youth and high school and collegiate

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Speaker 4: and the elite side, which obviously you and I both

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Speaker 4: have talked a lot about, which is getting so much attention,

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Speaker 4: but we really tie it all together to understand why

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Speaker 4: each of those levels are important and importantly why a

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Speaker 4: piece of legislation has made this entire excitement and momentum

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Speaker 4: in women's sports a reality that this moment in time

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Speaker 4: is not a coincidence. It's five decades of both men

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Speaker 4: and women having the ability to play sports. And when

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Speaker 4: each of those you know areas are functioning well, we

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Speaker 4: have a really thriving ecosystem, but we have multiple areas

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Speaker 4: is where there's always challenges, and that's really why this

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Speaker 4: organization was created and we always do it through the

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Speaker 4: lens of research everything, and that's what I've loved about

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Speaker 4: this organization and will continue to do that and making

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Speaker 4: sure that that research is out there to prove the model,

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Speaker 4: and the advacy work we do is all based on

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Speaker 4: that research that we see, and then all of our

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Speaker 4: awesome community impact work we do are just proof points

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Speaker 4: of that. And so that formula we've been doing for

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Speaker 4: fifty one years and we're going to continue to do it.

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Speaker 4: But the areas where we need to focus in on

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Speaker 4: may have evolved differently because of the fact that there's

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Speaker 4: other entities in the space that can work on some

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Speaker 4: of the business side of sports and some of those

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Speaker 4: valuations in data that maybe we had to do twenty

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Speaker 4: five years ago that we don't have to do today.

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Speaker 4: We really want to bridge the gap in the areas

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Speaker 4: of understanding that sports is not a nice to have

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Speaker 4: and it's not an extra curricular and it's a really

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Speaker 4: important part of our society, and that's really where our

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Speaker 4: focus is.

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Speaker 2: I love it and it's so true.

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Speaker 1: It feels like in the big moments, we pay lip

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Speaker 1: service to the idea that our women's Olympic team beats

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Speaker 1: full other countries because of title nine and our pro

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Speaker 1: leagues are because of great collegiate sports infrastructure. But then

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Speaker 1: when it comes down to bills and policy and things

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Speaker 1: like that, so often we seem to silo those things

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Speaker 1: and separate them from each other without looking at the

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Speaker 1: landscape the way you just described, which is it starts

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Speaker 1: with kids who then become high schoolers, who become collegiate,

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Speaker 1: who become a leade, who become Olympia all that other stuff.

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Speaker 1: So it is so necessary that you're focused on every

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Speaker 1: aspect of that timeline. Sarah, what would you say the

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Speaker 1: biggest focuses of Women's Sports Foundation are right now?

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Speaker 5: You know, we're certainly paying close attention to the collegiate space.

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Speaker 5: I know, a couple of weeks ago you had, you know,

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Speaker 5: the Primer conversation, talked a lot about House VNCAA with

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Speaker 5: Kelly and Alisha. That's a big focus of ours as well.

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Speaker 5: I think there's possibilities for that to have long term

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Speaker 5: implications for collegiate sports, not just for women, but for

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Speaker 5: all sports, especially men's Olympic sports and broad based sports

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Speaker 5: as well. So we're certainly paying attention close attention to that.

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Speaker 1: Denette, you're in the business of making people care about

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Speaker 1: and invest in women's sports. What moves the needle because

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Speaker 1: you have to perfect the storytelling to evoke interest and

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Speaker 1: buy in, evoke emotion. What have you found works best

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Speaker 1: for folks listing that maybe have their own nonprofit or

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Speaker 1: something that they want people to care about and pay

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Speaker 1: attention to.

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Speaker 2: What's the secret sauce?

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Speaker 4: I would say, for me, the most important thing is

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Speaker 4: any part of an organization, And I think coming from

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Speaker 4: a CMO background, you have to know your product inside

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Speaker 4: and out and you have to be passionate about it.

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Speaker 4: I knew very early on that I would not be

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Speaker 4: the right CMO of certain products. That sports was that

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Speaker 4: product for me, and women's sports in particular. And I

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Speaker 4: think what's really unique about this position in fundraising for

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Speaker 4: the Women's Sports Foundation is to find those passionate people

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Speaker 4: and to be able to tell our story and why

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Speaker 4: it's so critical to invest in us, and how we

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Speaker 4: play a critical role in really convening and bringing all

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Speaker 4: these different entities and groups together. So, you know, I

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Speaker 4: think about our founder Billy Jean and the fact that

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Speaker 4: she's able to be in this moment, but she's been

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Speaker 4: putting her money where her mouth is as well as

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Speaker 4: her partner for you know, for decades. I mean I

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Speaker 4: always look back and it's not a coincidence either that

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Speaker 4: the top you know females that are paid in women's

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Speaker 4: sports are tennis players. I mean that has everything to

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Speaker 4: do with what Billy did, not for herself, but for

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Speaker 4: everybody else that came after her. And we see the

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Speaker 4: same problems in women's sports. We always like to say

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Speaker 4: every women's sport has the exact same problems, are just

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Speaker 4: one different trajectories of where they are kind of in

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Speaker 4: their lifespan. But I think one of the most critical

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Speaker 4: things in understanding your product, and you and I have

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Speaker 4: talked about this, is understanding how the business works and

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Speaker 4: where the rights are controlled, because if you truly want

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Speaker 4: to invest in women's sports, it's very different at every level.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's something that I've experienced personally from

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Speaker 4: spending twelve years in collegiate athletics at a former Power five,

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Speaker 4: as well as working in the NBA and the WNBA.

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Speaker 4: And when you understand how it works, whether you're a

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Speaker 4: brand or an individual investor, it's critical to the success

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Speaker 4: of how that product's going to thrive. And I think

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Speaker 4: that's one of the biggest areas of growth for women's

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Speaker 4: sports personally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the storytelling in addition to the knowledge of

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure. The nitty gritty, maybe not quite as exciting,

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Speaker 1: is just as important to understand when you're trying to

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Speaker 1: get people to get involved. Speaking of nitty gritty, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: you are an expert in Title nine and you are

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Speaker 1: also needing to rely on storytelling to get people to

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Speaker 1: understand that we're still fighting for Title nine compliance. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell us a little the story of Ashley Bediz

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Speaker 1: and how that speaks to the current state for so

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Speaker 1: many girls and women in sport, still fighting just for

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Speaker 1: basic resources.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and I think maybe before I get into this

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Speaker 5: Ashley story, talking a little bit more about big picture

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Speaker 5: of what we're seeing at both the high school and

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Speaker 5: collegiate level in terms of Title nine compliance. So Denette

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Speaker 5: referenced it at the top, But we care about this

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Speaker 5: so deeply because we know the benefits that sports provide,

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Speaker 5: right the leadership, the health, the economic benefits to our society,

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Speaker 5: and sport is a launch pad for the athletes that

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Speaker 5: go through it, for boys and girls, men and women.

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Speaker 5: But despite having decades upon decades of Title nine behind us.

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Speaker 5: We know many schools are still not in compliance. At

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Speaker 5: the high school level, girls are still short changed one

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Speaker 5: point two million participation opportunities than boys. However, if you

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Speaker 5: look at girls today to boys and before Title nine

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Speaker 5: and that seventy one to seventy two academic year, girls

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Speaker 5: still have not reached that level. So we're still about

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Speaker 5: a quarter million opportunities behind boys in the seventies, right,

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Speaker 5: which is just like it like take a moment to

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Speaker 5: absorb that, right, that is absolutely insane that girls today

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty five have not reached the level of

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Speaker 5: participation opportunities that were afforded to boys in nineteen seventy one.

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Speaker 5: And we have had decades of this legislation, right, And

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Speaker 5: now if we look at the collegiate level, women are

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Speaker 5: still short changed opportunities there as well. And there's you know,

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Speaker 5: we can get into the nuances of Title nine and

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Speaker 5: how participation is measured, but if you're looking to how

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Speaker 5: many more opportunities men have than women, it's about eighty

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Speaker 5: thousand opportunities, right, and those are opportunities for education, for leadership,

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Speaker 5: for the ability to have career success. In some instances,

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Speaker 5: athletic scholarships. So that's why all of this matters. And

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Speaker 5: it's not just the stats, it's the impact that it

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Speaker 5: has in the long tail effect of these opportunities or

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Speaker 5: the lack of these opportunities for women and girls. And

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Speaker 5: so for Ashley, Ashley is a was this has been

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Speaker 5: many years now. At the time that this initial case

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Speaker 5: was filed, she was a high school water polo athlete

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Speaker 5: in Hawaii. She was at James Campbell High School, which

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Speaker 5: is the largest public high school in Hawaii. The suit

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Speaker 5: was first filed in twenty eighteen and was settled in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. And if you look at the facts

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Speaker 5: of that case, you want to say it's egregious, and

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Speaker 5: it is, but we know that this is an the

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Speaker 5: only times that things like this happened. That they happen

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Speaker 5: in other instances in other schools as well, But this

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Speaker 5: was such a public display of some of the inequities

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Speaker 5: that persist across this country. So water polo in general, right,

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Speaker 5: Like I did not grow up with water polo as

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Speaker 5: a sport in my high school, but when you watch

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Speaker 5: it on you know the Olympic stage, the amount of

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Speaker 5: athleticism that that takes to do water polo in a pool. Right,

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Speaker 5: Their high school did not have access to a pool

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Speaker 5: for this water polo team. They were practicing in the

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Speaker 5: open ocean, right, So, like, just imagine the choppy waves,

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Speaker 5: the wind that this high school water polo team is

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Speaker 5: going through to practice in the open ocean because the

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Speaker 5: school didn't have facilities for them.

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Speaker 1: Every time the ball gets away, it's like not a tide.

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Speaker 1: You can't even use the side of the pool to

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Speaker 1: help wrangle it.

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Speaker 5: Right, Like, it's just when you think about it, and

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Speaker 5: that like the the circumstances that they were in it,

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Speaker 5: and they were dealing with this, right when they started

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Speaker 5: raising concerns, the school, you know, started retaliating against the

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Speaker 5: athletes who did voice concerns for Title nine, which I

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Speaker 5: should add is illegal under the statute. Right, you're actually

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Speaker 5: protected from retaliation under Title nine. And the school even

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Speaker 5: threatened to cancel this season on them. Right, So you

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Speaker 5: have these athletes who realize that something is wrong, and

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Speaker 5: there have been stories and articles that have gone really

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Speaker 5: in depth in this, So encourage folks to go and

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Speaker 5: read that if they're interested in learning more, because it

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Speaker 5: is a really in depth look at what happened on

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Speaker 5: the ground in Hawaii and some of the things that

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Speaker 5: happened throughout that story, in that timeline, you know. One

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Speaker 5: of the other things, there were fourteen In the process

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Speaker 5: of doing that investigation, they started looking beyond just James

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Speaker 5: Campbell High School, because all of the public high schools

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Speaker 5: in Hawaii are part of the same school district. There

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Speaker 5: were fourteen schools statewide, fourteen high school statewide that had

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Speaker 5: no locker rooms for girls, right, And fourteen, right, doesn't

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Speaker 5: sound like that many, but in the context of Hawaii,

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Speaker 5: Hawaii doesn't have that many high schools, right, So this

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Speaker 5: was not an insignificant amount of high schools than Hawaii

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Speaker 5: that had zero locker room facilities for their girls. And

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Speaker 5: so as part of the settlement, the school you know,

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Speaker 5: appointed an independent observer. They've made some promises to adjust

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Speaker 5: the circumstances at those schools and we'll see, we'll see

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Speaker 5: where it goes and how things continue to progress from there.

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Speaker 5: But I think the key point is that this was

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Speaker 5: a group of athletes, right, it was Ashley, but it

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Speaker 5: was also others who were willing to speak up, who

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Speaker 5: noticed that something wasn't right. And you see quotes from

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Speaker 5: Ashley like it was She and her family just realized, like,

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Speaker 5: something isn't right here, and they googled it and they

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Speaker 5: found Title nine and they found the ACLU right like,

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Speaker 5: and that's that's often how folks come to us. They say,

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Speaker 5: it doesn't feel right. I googled it, I found you.

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Speaker 5: I found Title nine, Like, tell me what I need

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Speaker 5: to know. And so I think, really what we need

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Speaker 5: to take away from it is how much people need

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Speaker 5: to understand their rights under the law.

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Speaker 1: The compliance only happens if you essentially sue are threatened

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Speaker 1: to sue. And that's one of the biggest issues for

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Speaker 1: a title line is it's in a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: it's a law in name but not practice, because so

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Speaker 1: many don't know what their rights are or they're not

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Speaker 1: aware that they're being violated. Because in those cases like

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Speaker 1: you're talking about her, there's been really standout cases where

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Speaker 1: a coach has to like get all the goose poop

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Speaker 1: off of a public field so her team can try

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Speaker 1: to play softball and there's holes and cigarette butts and

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Speaker 1: drug paraphernalia and puddles and it's you know, open to

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Speaker 1: the public all the time except for the one hour

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Speaker 1: her team gets to use it.

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Speaker 2: But first she has to clean it up.

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Speaker 1: Or the Hawaii athletes that didn't have a bathroom to

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Speaker 1: go to, not just a locker room.

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Speaker 2: To change, but literally a toilet to use.

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Speaker 1: When you have those egregious instances, it's a lot easier

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Speaker 1: to be like, hey, something's up. But there are countless

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Speaker 1: examples of less obvious inequalities that are also illegal if

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Speaker 1: you took them to your school board or your principal,

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Speaker 1: or to the court system if necessary. So it's so

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Speaker 1: necessary that we keep pointing them out because a lot

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Speaker 1: of people aren't even aware of it.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I think just one thing to add to that,

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Speaker 5: for folks who are listening who maybe saying, like you know,

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Speaker 5: thinking through their own sport experience or the sport experience

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Speaker 5: of their daughters, it doesn't always have to be the

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Speaker 5: legal route, right. It doesn't always have to be a

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Speaker 5: complaint with the government or a lawsuit. Sometimes, and we've

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Speaker 5: seen this happen right with folks who have contacted us.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes it's a really well informed parent or athlete or

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Speaker 5: coach who goes to the school with the facts or

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Speaker 5: the school board with the facts to say this isn't right,

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Speaker 5: this is the law, this is what you should be doing,

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Speaker 5: and it takes persistence, and it takes a willingness to

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Speaker 5: speak out and put yourself out there. Oftentimes it's parents

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Speaker 5: of you know, juniors or seniors who are getting ready

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Speaker 5: to depart the school who say, this is my last kid.

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Speaker 5: I'm doing it for the kids behind them. You know,

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Speaker 5: they weren't necessarily willing to rock the boat at the

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Speaker 5: time that their child was a at the school, but

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Speaker 5: they're not willing to let it go unaddressed. And so

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Speaker 5: I think for folks listening like it doesn't have it

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Speaker 5: doesn't necessarily have to be a lawsuit. Oftentimes sometimes it'll

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Speaker 5: get to that, but it can also be addressed by

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Speaker 5: having a well informed conversation and being persistent with it

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've told this story before.

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Speaker 1: I'll sum it up quickly, but when I was at Cornell,

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Speaker 1: the head of the football team wanted the female track

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Speaker 1: athletes to change out of what we practiced in and

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Speaker 1: into our regulation issued shirt and shorts before we went

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Speaker 1: into the weight room that we shared with them, because

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Speaker 1: we were a distraction because we had on spandex and

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Speaker 1: this was not asked of any other athletes of any

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Speaker 1: other sport and we were not responsible for whether the

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Speaker 1: football players could keep their focus that was on them,

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Speaker 1: And so I just put a petition on the door

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Speaker 1: of our locker room and had all the athletes from

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Speaker 1: the men's and women's track teams sign it, handed it

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Speaker 1: back and said we weren't interested in changing our attire

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Speaker 1: for the sake of the football team, and they should

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Speaker 1: get them to focus on their workouts in some other

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Speaker 1: way unrelated to us.

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Speaker 2: And that was the end of that.

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Speaker 1: Didn't require a lawsuit or anything else, just required me

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Speaker 1: being like, hey, that's bullshit, we're not going to do that,

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Speaker 1: and everyone signing and that was the end of that.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes that's all it takes. There is so much

435
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 1: to get into on the Title nine front, but things

436
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: are getting all the more complicated because of this NC

437
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 1: DOUBLEA ruling, This House versus NC DOUBLEA, the long and

438
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: short of it, and if you haven't go back and

439
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 1: listened to our deep dive into this with the two

440
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: sports lawyers a couple episodes ago. But basically, it gives

441
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: college athletes back pay to those who've already graduated from

442
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: a large lump settlement and payment going forward to current

443
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: athletes based on a percentage of TV right deals. So

444
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: that's money that financially and finally acknowledges the revenue that

445
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: students name, image and likeness and athletic performances bring to schools.

446
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 1: You combine that with nil money from outside brands, and

447
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 1: we're looking at a whole.

448
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: New model for college athletics.

449
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: Now it's a positive that student athletes are finally getting paid.

450
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 1: Everyone else was getting money, now they are, but there

451
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: will be a lot of.

452
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: Consequences to these chains.

453
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: And Dennette, I wonder if you can just even if

454
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: it's the tip of the iceberg or if it's the

455
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: whole iceberg, share your concerns about the impact of House

456
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 1: versus NCAA.

457
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think I think it's really important to

458
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 4: understand this is only one piece of what's happening in

459
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 4: college athletics. And so when we talk about being able

460
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 4: to see why we exist and how we look at everything,

461
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 4: we connect all the dots. So I know we're not

462
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 4: going to be able to cover everything. And I was

463
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 4: glad that you were able to talk through the details

464
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 4: of House and some of the other things obviously on

465
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 4: the last podcast. It was great, But I want to

466
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 4: kind of remind people if we look at how we

467
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 4: look at college athletics and why it keeps us up

468
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 4: at night, and I look at it through a few

469
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 4: different kind of umbrella areas. The first one is we

470
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 4: have an antiquated system. So you we talk about it's

471
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 4: not if we talked about the storytelling before, Well, I'm

472
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 4: going to talk about why it's so important to understand

473
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 4: the plumbing and the infrastructure because in college athletics that

474
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 4: is essentially was driving all of these challenges, and there's

475
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 4: more and more that are coming. So you have an

476
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 4: antiquated economic system that has been created and was based

477
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 4: on a very old model. That model has had to

478
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 4: evolve now because you have all of these new things

479
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 4: that have come into the space, whether it's anile individual,

480
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: whether it's nil collectives, whether it's multiple different legal lawsuits

481
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 4: like house or whether it's things like antitrust and labor laws,

482
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 4: and we could go on and on and on and

483
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 4: on right, So there's multiple things that are impacting this

484
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 4: entire system. In addition to those realities of kind of

485
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 4: a bad economic model that needs to evolve, there's never

486
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 4: really been true investment in women's sports and men's Olympic

487
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 4: sports through the lens of how you would look at

488
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 4: as a business. So when we compare like the business

489
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 4: side of sports, like coming off of whether it's a

490
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 4: professional model to a collegiate model, they're very different in

491
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 4: how they're structured. And a lot of that is because

492
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 4: of where the rights are controlled. And so it's really

493
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 4: important to understand the nuances of the plumbing of how

494
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 4: and who controls the rights in the collegiate model to

495
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 4: really know where you can make a difference in how

496
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 4: you invest. So there's components of what you can do,

497
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 4: but there's also components of how it's structured, which is

498
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 4: why you need to understand, like you say, get under

499
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 4: the hood. And I think this was something that I

500
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 4: saw so strongly because I worked on this side for

501
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 4: so long, working for the twelve schools that I worked

502
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 4: for in the Pac twelve. In addition to that, this

503
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,959
Speaker 4: impacts broad based sports. It's not just women's sports. This impact.

504
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 4: This will impact men's Olympic sports as much as it

505
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 4: will impact women's sports. And it's really important to know

506
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 4: that at the Women's Sports Foundation, we care about both.

507
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 4: We've always cared about men and women having equal opportunity

508
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 4: to play sports at every level, and what is about

509
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 4: to happen in college could really reduce that one piece

510
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 4: of Title nine in this conversation, Title nine protects the

511
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 4: amount that that school needs to be able to be compliant, right,

512
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: so it is never going to protect if an institution

513
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 4: carries thirty sports, they don't have to carry at thirty sports.

514
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 4: I think it's sixteen currently, and FBS Division one, I

515
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 4: think it's fourteen and other divisions. So right now, that's

516
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 4: all you have to carry, but you can keep reducing.

517
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 4: So I know some of the strongest Olympic team USA

518
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 4: producing institutions are ones that carry a lot more than that.

519
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 4: If you look at different institutions that have carried the

520
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 4: most Olympians as an example, we're already seeing the pattern

521
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 4: of reduction of sport opportunities, reduction potentially of dropping down divisions.

522
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 4: So again I keep there's layers and layers and layers

523
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 4: to this. So I think it's really important to understand

524
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 4: that this legal patchwork, the NI collectives and NIL are

525
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 4: very different from each other, and how you have to

526
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 4: look at it. The lack of data transparency, the reality

527
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 4: of a very antiquaid economic model and then knowing how

528
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 4: it works is really critical to what's actually happening in

529
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 4: college sports, which is why we have a lot of

530
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 4: concerns about what this could look like when you see

531
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 4: the long tail of it, and we want to make

532
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 4: sure that we're not looking in the rear view mirror going,

533
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, what just happened. And we also know

534
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 4: that each of the institutions, if I'm sitting as a

535
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 4: division ie FBS athletics director right now, we also know

536
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 4: how hard it is for them too. I don't want

537
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 4: to not have empathy for what they're going through because

538
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 4: it's a very different landscape for them than it was

539
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 4: for their predecessors twenty years ago. You've had a model

540
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 4: that was based on one sport for a very long

541
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 4: time and how that revenue was generated, and you had

542
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 4: control of where that money came from because you were

543
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 4: able to control it from the top on down. Now

544
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 4: that money is being spread out everywhere, so you have

545
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 4: to think about how can we continue to evolve. And again,

546
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: I'm the biggest college football fan. I love college football,

547
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 4: but we have no expense caps in college athletics. It

548
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: is very strange, and you come from professional sports and

549
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: realize that doesn't exist in college and so because of that,

550
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 4: we have to work within the framework of knowing how

551
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 4: the business model works to know how you can affect change.

552
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 4: And one of those biggest things that I think you

553
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 4: can affect change on is the reality of understanding how

554
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 4: you can invest if you are an individual philanthropist or

555
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 4: you're a brand in college athletics, and being very direct

556
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 4: and deliberate and deliberate in where you want that money

557
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 4: to go. Because of how rights are controlled, it usually

558
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 4: is you give money at the top of the athletics department,

559
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 4: that money gets spread out. But if you want your

560
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 4: money to go to the women's basketball program, or you

561
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 4: want your money to go to that women's water polo program,

562
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 4: you have to be very intentional and you have to

563
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 4: understand who controls the rights, even on the media right side.

564
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 4: Most people don't understand what the NCAA controls on the

565
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 4: media right side and what they don't. They don't control

566
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 4: college football media rights contracts. They control the NCAA media

567
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 4: championships like the basketball tournament. So it's again understanding and

568
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 4: college has a tendency to not essentially like to take

569
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 4: a lot of risk remember it's still under a higher

570
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: education model, and athletics departments are one piece of a

571
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 4: central campus of a university, so the controls are also

572
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 4: usually divided up and different rights holders are giving the

573
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 4: access to be able to control those rights for a

574
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 4: given institution, whether that's sponsorship or ticket sales. So I've

575
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 4: always been worried that there hasn't been an investment in

576
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 4: what's called the publicity side, or we might call on

577
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 4: the business side of professional sports side, selling sponsorship, selling tickets,

578
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 4: creating fan bases, doing all the things that we know

579
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 4: are the metrics, but have empathy on the collegiate side

580
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 4: because they're trying to do that for not one facility,

581
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 4: but fifteen or twenty sometimes and also multiple sports. So

582
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 4: I think most people don't understand the nuances and for

583
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 4: living on both sides, I've learned to have respect for

584
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 4: both and have empathy for both, which is why it

585
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 4: really is going to take a collaborative effort. But consumers

586
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 4: need to understand the plumbing, which isn't as sexy, but

587
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 4: when you understand it, you can make change.

588
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's so much there that's fascinating, But

589
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: if there isn't a push to sell sponsorships, to market

590
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: a team, to explain why it's valuable. On the women's side,

591
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: those are the things that fall behind. And then we

592
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: blame the product when it has never been marketed or

593
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: sold the way that we have men's And if you

594
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: don't market or sell it, then it won't get better.

595
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: And you can keep pointing to its outcomes, its revenues,

596
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: et cetera as the reason you don't invest. It's a

597
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: roboros of bullshit, right because if we're not investing, we

598
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: never see it get better. And then if it never

599
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: gets better, then we have a reason that we say

600
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: we're not investing. Before I move on really quickly, I

601
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: want to ask you, and you can't predict the future,

602
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: but for folks who are maybe never going to dive

603
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: into the plumbing, it's five or ten years down the road.

604
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: What's the worst case scenario here in terms of programs

605
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: being disbanded, women's sports not being invested in, money deciding

606
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: to be given from all these different things to just

607
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: the men.

608
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: What does it look like?

609
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 4: Well, I don't want to it's I don't want to

610
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 4: say it's doomsday, because I think we all have an

611
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 4: opportunity to actually make change, and I think the excitement

612
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 4: around women's sports and the momentum around women's sports can

613
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 4: help us do that. It's just knowing where you put

614
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 4: your money. So I do think the one part that

615
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 4: I'm very concerned about with House, the piece that I

616
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 4: don't like, is it's one thing for the formula or

617
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 4: the model they're creating for the back pay, it's another

618
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 4: thing that formula is going to utilize as investment into

619
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: the future. I don't like that at all because there

620
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 4: hasn't ever been a fair market value in the areas

621
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 4: you just described, the lack of funding that has gone

622
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: towards the sponsor side, the marketing side, the publicity side,

623
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 4: that side, just because women's sports and men's Olympic sports

624
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 4: have always been defined as non revenue generating sports my

625
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 4: least favorite word ever, and so there has never been

626
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,239
Speaker 4: a fair market value. So the reality of that is

627
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 4: we've already been behind the game for a long time,

628
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 4: and so but we have these great examples of models

629
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 4: that are proving that you can be that now, which

630
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 4: is some of the momentum you're obviously seeing at the

631
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 4: top of the ecosystem. So that's why I think if

632
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 4: you understand some of the plumbing. It's just about being

633
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 4: intentional where you put your dollars. We always talk about

634
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 4: there needs to be more brands involved. There needs to

635
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 4: be a lot more brands to create the ocean. But

636
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: when those brands need to be you know, they also

637
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: need to understand how the system works so they know

638
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 4: how they can utilize their marketing dollars. So I would

639
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 4: say that, like, my biggest concern is can a very

640
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: significant reduction in broad based sports for both men and

641
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 4: women Olympic sports, that's my biggest concern. I think that

642
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: you will see less opportunities than you see today if

643
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: we don't pay attention. And there's enough examples of those

644
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 4: already of athletics departments, you know, not continuing to play

645
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 4: no matter what division and at what level they are,

646
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 4: sports being going away men's and women's. And the reality

647
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: is we've got a really beautiful system because it's tied

648
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 4: to our education model and the legislation that is allowed

649
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: for so many of those men and women that never

650
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 4: go on to be on Team USA, but just have

651
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 4: a great opportunity to be able to play at whatever

652
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 4: level in college and be able to earn their degree.

653
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 4: So I do think we should feel a lot of

654
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 4: pride in that part of the collegiate system and recognize

655
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 4: that we can make we can make change. And my

656
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 4: goal and objective is to see some of these sports,

657
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 4: both men's and women's Olympic sports, be able to pay

658
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 4: for themselves so they're not on the chopping block and

659
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 4: so not seeing a reduction in investment, but an increase

660
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 4: in investment, but having empathy and understanding the challenges athletic

661
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 4: administrators are under and recognizing that the private sector can

662
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 4: play a big role on this and making sure that

663
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 4: they make those investments. Because everybody loves college athletics in

664
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 4: the United States. We all have rama mater, we all

665
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,239
Speaker 4: have you know, the school that we follow in our

666
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 4: own community. This is relevant to everybody, and I think

667
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 4: that's something that I'm hopeful we can rally everybody to

668
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 4: understand just progress made isn't necessarily a progress progress to come,

669
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: So let's let's not let it get there.

670
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,479
Speaker 5: Yeah. I just wanted to emphasize something that Dennett, you know,

671
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 5: has has said is just Title nine does not protect

672
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 5: broad based sports offerings, right, So what it means is

673
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 5: that all Title nine says is that once a school

674
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 5: decides to offer sports, it must do so equitably. A

675
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 5: school can offer zero sports equitably, they can offer, you know,

676
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 5: a fraction of the opportunities that they currently have. And

677
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 5: while they're currently minimum sponsorship requirements at the NCAA level,

678
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 5: to my knowledge, all it takes is a vote of

679
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 5: membership to say, you know what, sixteen is too much?

680
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 5: Right Maybe it's sixteen right now, but who says five

681
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 5: years down the road, they might say, you know what,

682
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 5: sixteen's too much, We actually need it to be ten.

683
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 5: And now you're looking at schools severely diminishing the number

684
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 5: of sports that they're carrying and just investing much more

685
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 5: in fewer sports, which to some extent is their prerogative

686
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 5: when it comes to the current offerings. But you know,

687
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 5: as we said, we want more student athletes to have

688
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 5: access to sports because we know the lifelong benefits that

689
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 5: they provide.

690
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: Right, so they would make these cuts because essentially, once

691
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: you've opened the door to hey, we can make money,

692
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: and we can openly make money, they're just going to

693
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: start focusing only on the teams that make money at

694
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: the expense of others. Because the influx of new money

695
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: that goes to the athletes, why does that automatically and

696
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: ultimately lead to cuts to the programs.

697
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 4: The challenging part is this, if you're running a business,

698
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 4: you're looking at it like, how do I keep my

699
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 4: lights turned on? Right? If you have all these different

700
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 4: sports in that you're responsible for and you don't have

701
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 4: expense caps, then at the end of the day, it

702
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 4: just becomes an economic decision. Unfortunately, it's really black and white.

703
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 4: And so if you're in that situation and you have

704
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 4: the ability that you have to stay here because this

705
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 4: sport is allowing you to generate this much money, and

706
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: why would you ever start to invest in the other

707
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 4: sports if you're just trying to hold on because you

708
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 4: used to be able to control how the money is distributed.

709
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: You don't get to control that anymore because of all

710
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 4: things that we just described, Because it's going out to

711
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 4: nil individual, because you have the lawsuits.

712
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 2: Well, you do get to control it.

713
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: But because now people understand that you're in control of distributing,

714
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 1: there can be more pull on just giving it all

715
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 1: to football or all to basketball. Whereas before, or when

716
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: revenue came in from football, you could distribute it across

717
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: the school to the benefit of the athletic department at large,

718
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: and now there will be demands from coaches who want

719
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: their players paid more or their programs to be even

720
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: more lifted up.

721
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there would be choices. I mean, I think

722
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 4: you could also say we haven't even gotten into the

723
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 4: discussions of the transferporter. But there's also the reality of

724
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 4: what's happening that we used to say used to happen.

725
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 4: You know, under the table is very forward facing now.

726
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 4: So it's also a matter of is that money that

727
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 4: used to be a booster that's going somewhere else now

728
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 4: going to a quarterback and so that money might have

729
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 4: gone to the top of the athletics department before, and

730
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 4: so they did have the ability to distribute that to

731
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 4: the softball team. So that's why you have to look

732
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 4: at each of these layers to understand that it's almost

733
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 4: like a restricted grant. Is a very important way to

734
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 4: think about it if you're thinking about funding different sports

735
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 4: properties because in college, because then it's a guarantee to

736
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 4: get to that. That's why I think individuals and brands

737
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 4: can say this is the only place where I want

738
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 4: my money to go, and this is why And I

739
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 4: think that's going to be really important in the future

740
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 4: because I do think brands and individuals can help drive

741
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: infusing more cash into the system that will help women's

742
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 4: sports and men's Olympic sports, which ultimately is what's needed anyways,

743
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 4: because we haven't really done what we need to do

744
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 4: to get those women's sports, in particular to have the

745
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 4: right types of promotional tools to actually build fandom. I've

746
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 4: always said, done all this great work in women's sports

747
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 4: with essentially our hands tied behind our backs. We've never

748
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 4: controlled the rights. The disruption and media has allowed us

749
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 4: to be in different places. I just think that the

750
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 4: opportunities are here because of all that disruption, and so

751
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 4: it's why you have to be able to play and

752
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 4: work the system to understand where you can make an impact,

753
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 4: because it's going to be one of those challenges at

754
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: the end of the day that schools are going to

755
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 4: have to decide and if your budgets are looking the way,

756
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 4: they're looking a certain way, you're going to have to

757
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 4: make our choices and what's the easiest choice to make.

758
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: So Sarah my friend Victoria Jackson, she's a professor of

759
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: sport history at ASU, and she believes The answer is

760
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: you have to spin off football, make it a separate industry,

761
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: fully professional under twenty three league, not run by higher

762
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: education anymore, but affiliated with schools. So schools have their

763
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: games and teams, students and fans keep their experiences, but

764
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: the school doesn't run it. Players get employment contracts, they

765
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: can activate the free education associated with the school whenever

766
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: they want, while they're playing or after, and it sort

767
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: of becomes a minor league for the NFL, but with

768
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: affiliation to schools that people are so clinging to because

769
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: of what Dannetti said, we all love our alma mater,

770
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: we all love that experience, and the schools love the

771
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: money that comes with it. Is that the only way

772
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: to do this because the number of roster spots for

773
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: football and the outsized money there is really what keeps

774
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: us from trying to have a more balanced ecosystem.

775
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 5: I think there are plenty of ways that you know

776
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 5: are There are lots of opportunities and ways that people

777
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 5: have suggested we can approach this right. And I don't

778
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 5: think that there's necessarily one right answer to it. I

779
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 5: think there's lots of conversation right and there's no right answer,

780
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 5: and we're all trying to figure it out. But I think,

781
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 5: you know, the a couple things just from a Title

782
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 5: nine perspective that strike me as we're talking, and even

783
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 5: in what Dennetja said, like, yes, folks can say this

784
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 5: is where I want my money to go. And on

785
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 5: the women's side, that's going to be super helpful because

786
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 5: maybe there's not as much investment by the schools. But

787
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 5: I want to give the caveat that regardless of where

788
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 5: the money comes from, as long as the school allows

789
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 5: that benefit to be passed along to the student athletes,

790
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 5: they are responsible for making sure that their student athletes

791
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 5: are treated equitably. Right, So you can't say, well, it

792
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 5: came it's a restricted it's restricted money, it came from

793
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 5: over here, so therefore it doesn't matter in factoring in

794
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 5: the Title nine compliance aspect of it. So and the

795
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 5: same as of right now and how things are structured

796
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 5: is true for football, right and that debate happened long

797
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 5: ago on you know the floors of Congress of whether

798
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 5: or not football gets spun off and kind of becomes

799
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 5: its own thing and isn't under Title nine right now

800
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 5: in the way things are structured attached to our educational programs.

801
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 5: Football is part of Title nine compliance, and schools need

802
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 5: to make sure because at the end of the day,

803
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 5: right it's still students at that school who are receiving

804
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 5: the benefits the educational opportunities. Title nine is an educational law,

805
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 5: and we need to make sure that we're treating folks

806
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 5: equitably under the law.

807
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 1: Completely agree, I mean as of right now, of course,

808
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if it's possible to fix this problem

809
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: when we all know that the big thing sticking out

810
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: is the thing that has one hundred plus roster spots

811
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: and is you know, has a bunch of different roles.

812
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: What's up to that?

813
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the part that makes it so complicated

814
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 4: is that again diving in, like most people don't understand

815
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 4: that Division one FBS is very different from Division one FCS,

816
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 4: was very different from Division two, division three, I mean,

817
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 4: and there's football at all levels. So I think that

818
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 4: that's one of the things that's really hard on. Does

819
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 4: it work in certain circumstances?

820
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: Well, what is that?

821
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 4: I mean even within division one, Division one is very

822
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: different from the top to the bottom part of Division one,

823
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 4: and people don't understand that, like even within conferences. So

824
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: I think that's the part that has always made this

825
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 4: so complicated is that not everybody's treated equally in the

826
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 4: relationship of how football is even functions in the collegiate model.

827
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 4: And I think what we don't want to see happen

828
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 4: is that there are great things about college football at

829
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 4: all levels that has really benefited young men to have

830
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 4: the ability to go earn their scholarships. And how the

831
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 4: business model works again is so antiquated because it's built

832
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 4: on something that worked a long time ago that isn't

833
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 4: necessarily working today in twenty twenty five. And so I

834
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 4: think our concern too is to see the reality of

835
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 4: what potentially could happen, but it's not the same. Like

836
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 4: I worked at a Power five conference. I know who

837
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 4: controls the media rights, and I worked at one of

838
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 4: the Power five conferences that went away and so you

839
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 4: know that isn't the same one and had the most

840
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: prolific women's sports Olympic programs of the entire country. So

841
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 4: I worked with those institutions for over a decade to

842
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 4: know the work and you know, for me to see

843
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 4: a conference that entire women's sports olympians were stronger than

844
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 4: anybody else in the country, and to see it, you know,

845
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 4: be where it is today's very hard to swallow in

846
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 4: the collegiate model, you know, I spent I'm a West

847
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 4: Coast girl and spent time as a PAC ten, Pac

848
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 4: twelve kid and graduate. So to go through that process

849
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 4: of seeing all of that and seeing where we are

850
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 4: today and really seeing a conference that was all about

851
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 4: the conference of champions and recognizing those strengthen women's Olympic sports.

852
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 4: But I think it's important for people to recognize that

853
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: it's so different from even within Division one.

854
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 5: Sarah Denett as you as you talk about women's Olympic sports.

855
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 5: I also want to make the point that we often

856
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 5: talk about collegiate sports as a feeder system for a

857
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 5: Team USA, but we also should recognize the fact that

858
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 5: at our colleges and universities also produce international student athletes.

859
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 5: So this is not just about the strength of Team USA.

860
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 5: This is about the strength of the field on the

861
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 5: Olympic stage and the number of athletes who come through

862
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 5: US systems benefit from Title nine at the high school

863
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 5: or collegiate level and then either go back to a

864
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 5: home country and play for a national team or go

865
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 5: to a country of where they have heritage, and they're

866
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 5: able to play even if they're born here. Right Like

867
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 5: Title nine has elevated the global game. And we also

868
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 5: can't gloss over the impact that this could have not

869
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 5: just on Team USA, but globally the athletes and the

870
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 5: training grounds that we have in our collegiate system right now.

871
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's true for men and women, but particularly

872
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: for women in countries that don't have the infrastructure and

873
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: the investment in women's sports, they can come here and thrive.

874
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: We are so out of time, but I do want

875
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: one sentence. It's going to be hard, but one sentence

876
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: from each of you, a call to action. Then Nette,

877
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: you've sort of already done it, but a call to

878
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: action for folks who want to have an impact on

879
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: this changing landscape.

880
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 3: HM.

881
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 4: I always, because we spend so much time talking about investment,

882
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 4: I will always say intentional and deliberate investment in every

883
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 4: layer of the ecosystem of women's sports is critical. Understanding

884
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 4: enough about how it works so you put your money

885
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 4: where you want your money to go is really really critical.

886
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 4: And just remembering that sports is so much bigger than

887
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 4: the time in which they compete. It is essentially fueling

888
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 4: our economy with the future leaders both men and women,

889
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 4: as well as all the amazing preventative health measures that

890
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 4: happen when girls and boys both play sports. So we

891
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 4: have to continue to make sure this isn't a nice

892
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 4: to have. And that was way long.

893
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,959
Speaker 1: Run on sentence, but I'll allow it, Sarah.

894
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 5: I think I'll stick with the title nine theme, right.

895
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 5: I think we need folks need to be education on

896
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 5: the law and empowered to speak up. Just because we've

897
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 5: seen so much progress already doesn't mean that we're guaranteed

898
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 5: that progress or that we will maintain that ground for

899
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 5: the next fifty years. So it takes all of us

900
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 5: in understanding the law, being educated, and being empowered to

901
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 5: speak up and increase compliance.

902
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: To steal a line from one of those PAC twelve schools,

903
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: fight on is the message here. Thank you both so

904
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: much for coming on. Obviously we could talk about this

905
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: for much longer. Maybe we'll have you back as we

906
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 1: continue to monitor the landscape, but so appreciate your insight.

907
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 4: Thanks Sar, Thank you for having us, Sarah. Thanks for

908
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 4: being a big voice for women's sports. It's important.

909
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Dennette and Sarah for taking the time.

910
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: We got to take another break when we come back.

911
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: A review that cast shade and intends to spark change.

912
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: Stick around, Welcome back slices. We love that you're listening,

913
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 1: but we want to get in the game every day too,

914
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: So here's our good game play of the day. We

915
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: wanted to highlight an upcoming event some uselcens might be

916
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: interested in attending. Athlete Ally is holding its fifth annual

917
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: Athlete Activism Summit from June twelfth to the fifteenth in Portland, Oregon,

918
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: with registration open now through May ninth. The four day

919
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: summit is open to any college athlete, coach, or administrator

920
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: who's looking to make their school's community more inclusive and

921
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: welcoming with panels, discussion groups, and outings to local games

922
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 1: and activities. We're big fans of athlete Ally here at

923
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: Good Games, so even if you can't make the event,

924
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: be sure to check out their work. We'll link to

925
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: their website and the event registration page in the show notes.

926
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: And you know, we always love to hear from you,

927
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: so hit us up on email. Good Game at wondermedianetwork

928
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: dot com. Don't forget to subscribe a rate and review, y'all.

929
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: It's really easy. Just take it from former triathlete and

930
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 1: ironmanwinner Sarah Gross, who called in with a guest review

931
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: on some recent news.

932
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 2: Take a listen.

933
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 6: Ironman, not the superhero, but the triathlon company made announcements

934
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 6: last week that's sadly will significantly reverse forward progress for

935
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 6: women who love to swim, bike, and run. Rating minus

936
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 6: infinity stars review. First of all, thank you Sarah and

937
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 6: slices for letting me jump in with this review today.

938
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: I wish I had better news.

939
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 6: I'm Sarah Gross, former Ironman North American champion and founder

940
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 6: and CEO of Feisty, a media company that covers women's

941
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 6: sports and women's health. Side note, I love the episode

942
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 6: with Chelsea Sadaro and Haley Tura and have narrowly avoided

943
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 6: pooping my pants on several occasions. It comes with a territory.

944
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 6: So on to the bad news. Iron Man announced that

945
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 6: for their World Championship they will be going back to

946
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 6: a single day of racing both men and women together

947
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 6: on the Big Island of Hawaii. Many people in the

948
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 6: sport cheered. I mean, I can understand the appeal of

949
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 6: having everyone together racing at the same time, but when

950
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 6: you dig into the details, you realize that these changes

951
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 6: come at the expense of all the forward progress Iron

952
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 6: Men has made for women over the last two or

953
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 6: three years. Since twenty twenty two, women have had their

954
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 6: own race, meaning there were no men on the course

955
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 6: with them. This ensured that women had a clear, fair

956
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 6: course undisturbed by the men's race. Like Chelsea said at

957
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 6: the time, there aren't men on the court during the

958
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 6: women's Wimbledon final, so why should there be men on

959
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 6: our race course? And it's been incredible being in Kona

960
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 6: for these races, with all the media focus on the

961
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 6: women's race, and watching a woman cross the finish line

962
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 6: first in an Iron Man so many shivers. But this

963
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 6: change back to a single day of racing has come

964
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 6: at another cost as well. As you can imagine, when

965
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 6: men and women each had their own race, there were

966
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 6: equal numbers of available race spots by gender. But under

967
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 6: this new system, which is really an old system, recycled

968
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 6: slots will be handed out based on participation numbers. In practice,

969
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 6: this means that twenty five percent of the athletes racing

970
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 6: and in twenty twenty six will be women and a

971
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 6: whopping seventy five percent will be men. Now I'm sure,

972
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 6: you can imagine lots of people were upset about this.

973
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 6: It seems clear and obvious from where I sit that

974
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 6: women having half the slots is not just the right

975
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 6: thing to do, but also the only option if you

976
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 6: want to develop the women's side of the sport. So

977
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 6: what do we do about it? Iron Man has shown

978
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 6: consistently that they are willing to listen, so let them

979
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 6: know what you think. If you want to dive into

980
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 6: this topic more deeply, or help us spread the word

981
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 6: slide into my dms. I am Sarah at Sarah with

982
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 6: noh dot gross on Instagram. I would love to hear

983
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 6: from you, so thanks again Sarah for letting me share

984
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 6: this unfortunate news. Myself and everyone at Feisty Media do

985
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 6: not want to see iron Man quietly get away with this.

986
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 6: I'm going to keep banging my drum and I hope

987
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 6: to have a positive update next time we talk.

988
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: Thanks to Sarah for the review and for letting us

989
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: know how to call on iron Man to do better.

990
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: Now it's your turn, slices, rate and review. Thanks for listening.

991
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: Say you tomorrow. Good game, Dinnette, good game, Sarah. Few

992
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: new systems that are actually bad old systems Brought Back

993
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: from the Dead. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an

994
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports

995
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,

996
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by

997
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.

998
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan

999
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez,

1000
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: and Grace Lynch. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and

1001
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: I'm Your host Sarah Spain.