1
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brussel from Bloomberg Radio.

2
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,560
Speaker 1: At his confirmation hearing, Judge Merrick Garland, President Joe Biden's

3
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,800
Speaker 1: nominee for Attorney General, said domestic terrorism is a greater

4
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,959
Speaker 1: threat than it has been for decades, and vowed to

5
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: prioritize combating extremist violence. We must do everything in the

6
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,000
Speaker 1: power of the Justice Department to prevent this kind of

7
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:38,199
Speaker 1: interference with the policies of American democratic institutions, and I

8
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: plan if you no confirm me for Attorney General, to

9
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: do everything in my power to ensure that we are protected. Garland,

10
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,960
Speaker 1: who is now a judge on the US Court of

11
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,000
Speaker 1: Appeals for the District of Columbia, appears headed for a

12
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 1: bipartisan vote of approval in the Senate, almost five years

13
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: after Senate Republicans blocked consideration of his nomination to the

14
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. President Barack Obama joining me is Matthew Schneider,

15
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 1: former U S attorney in Michigan and a partner at Huntingman.

16
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,839
Speaker 1: So just give me your general impression of Merrick Garland's

17
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 1: testimony today. So it seems like the questions are following

18
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,960
Speaker 1: into three categories. There's current cases, the Justice Department's independence

19
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,520
Speaker 1: and policy, Well, Mr Garland can't talk about current cases,

20
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,680
Speaker 1: and he's assured the senators that the department will be independent.

21
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,040
Speaker 1: So really the focus of the hearing is about policy

22
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 1: and in general and but more specifically the focus of

23
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 1: the hearing is about what policies will the new Attorney

24
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,080
Speaker 1: General make that will be different from the previous administration.

25
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 1: And this is in a variety of areas climate change,

26
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 1: voting rights, racism, marijuana, all very very broad topics. And

27
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: he said that his first priority, his first briefing, will

28
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 1: be to deal with the attack on the Capitol and

29
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 1: that the tack was not a one off with regard

30
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 1: to domestic terrorism. How much can an Attorney general's commitment

31
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 1: make a difference in that regard, Well, in this case

32
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 1: a lot, because there are multiple cases arising out of

33
00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: that incident at the Capitol. Those are all being prosecuted

34
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,520
Speaker 1: by the Justice Department. Because the US Justice Department in Washington,

35
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: d C. Handles both state and federal cases. So whether

36
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 1: those cases are charged in any capacity, that's going to

37
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,359
Speaker 1: be a Justice Department initiatives. And if you think about

38
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 1: who Merrick Garland is, this is really quite revealing that

39
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,640
Speaker 1: he began his testimony by talking about the importance of

40
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,239
Speaker 1: combating domestic terrorism and making that one of his highest priorities. Well,

41
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 1: look at him himself. He's already done that. He prosecuted

42
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 1: the Oklahoma City bombing case. So this is a good

43
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 1: example of why there's really no room for on the

44
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: job training as a new attorney general, and Merritt Garland

45
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: is proving that. In his confirmation hearing, over and over again,

46
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,799
Speaker 1: he said that he will make independent decisions about investigations

47
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,040
Speaker 1: and prosecutions and that he wouldn't have taken the job

48
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 1: if politics were a part of it. But still he

49
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 1: was asked that question in different forms over and over.

50
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 1: Was he not convincing the first five or six times

51
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 1: he said it? I think he was convincing. But each

52
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 1: senator wants to ask his or her own questions, and

53
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 1: that is a very important question and line of questioning

54
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 1: for the senators, and I think they want absolute assurance

55
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 1: that that is the case, and he's coming across very convincingly. Now.

56
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 1: There was a great deal of questioning from Republicans about

57
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 1: whether he would continue specific investigations and politically sensitive cases.

58
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 1: The Dorm investigation, the Hunter Biden investigation among them. Did

59
00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,760
Speaker 1: his answer satisfy you, Yes, Because as u S Attorney,

60
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 1: I didn't discuss ongoing cases with the media either, and

61
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: neither ken a nominee for Attorney General. It is the same,

62
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,720
Speaker 1: you do not discuss those ongoing cases. And look, he

63
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 1: isn't in the Justice Department yet, he doesn't even know.

64
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,159
Speaker 1: He also stated many times, I haven't been briefed on

65
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 1: this case. He's not up to speed on them. He

66
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 1: really knows about as much in those cases as a

67
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 1: normal ordinary American might glean from reading the newspaper. There

68
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 1: was a great deal of question from Democrats about the

69
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 1: Justice Department that Garland will inherit, one that was criticized

70
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 1: for being politicized under Trump and whose staff, according to reporting,

71
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,680
Speaker 1: has gone through some tumultuous times. What did you get

72
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: from him about how he'll handle the administration of the

73
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,800
Speaker 1: Justice Department. I took from that that he will be

74
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,839
Speaker 1: an even hand, and he will be fair, and he

75
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: will manage that the department very very well. What didn't

76
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,119
Speaker 1: really come out in this hearing is when they're talking

77
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,480
Speaker 1: about the morale of the Justice Department. What didn't come

78
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,040
Speaker 1: out is what is the Justice Department. The Justice Department

79
00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,240
Speaker 1: is in the U. S. Attorney's offices. The Justice Department

80
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 1: is in ninety three districts across the country in every

81
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,480
Speaker 1: single state. Those are where the Justice Department employees are,

82
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 1: and the morale in those offices is quite high. And

83
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 1: that just didn't come across you mentioned that They were

84
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 1: asking him about policy. How much of the policy is

85
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: the attorney generals to make? How much is he following

86
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: what the administration tells him? And does it depend on

87
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,960
Speaker 1: the Attorney general? It does depend on the attorney channel.

88
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 1: That policy comes from the Attorney general, Whether or not

89
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 1: to prosecute marijuana cases, whether or not to have the

90
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 1: China initiatives continue that was started under Attorney General just Sessions,

91
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 1: Whether or not to create an office in the Justice

92
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,040
Speaker 1: Department focus on climate change. Those are decisions that are

93
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,200
Speaker 1: made in the order charts at the Justice Department, So

94
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,799
Speaker 1: certainly he can make a lot of those decisions himself.

95
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 1: In his remarks, he talked about prioritizing policing and civil

96
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 1: rights to combat racial discrimination. Any indication how he intends

97
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 1: to carry that out. Another item that came up in

98
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,560
Speaker 1: this confirmation here was the use of consent decrees. Consent

99
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,159
Speaker 1: decrees to settle cases against police departments in the municipalities.

100
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,799
Speaker 1: Those were used in the Obama administration. Those consent decrees

101
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 1: were ended in the Trump administration. So the question now

102
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: is will Merrick Garland bring back the use of consent

103
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:47,200
Speaker 1: decrees against police departments for police actions or wrongs. And

104
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,159
Speaker 1: he indicated that he would. That is a tool that

105
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,400
Speaker 1: is in his toolbox, and I think that's exactly what

106
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,520
Speaker 1: we're going to see. We're going to see the Justice

107
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 1: Department using consent decrees much like it did in the

108
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 1: Obama administration, and that aspect will come back. And what

109
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,440
Speaker 1: about prioritizing civil rights? He plans to expand the Justice

110
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 1: Department Civil Rights Division and to use consent decrees in

111
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 1: the more forceful manner that has been done in the

112
00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 1: immediate path. And look, everything in the Justice Department, when

113
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 1: you move one lever, something else reacts. So if you're

114
00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 1: going to increase the enforcement in civil rights, you're going

115
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 1: to have to look at other parts of the department

116
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 1: to find out where am I going to cut back?

117
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,840
Speaker 1: Because the Justice Department only has so many employees. And

118
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: I know that Merrick Garland is committed to enforcing the

119
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 1: work of the Civil Rights Division. The question then becomes,

120
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 1: where are those bodies going to come from if you

121
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 1: have to expand the division. There was no reference to

122
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 1: whether or not he's going to consider criminal charges against

123
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 1: former President Trump. Are you surprised that no one has

124
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: asked in that question? I am. I'm surprised that the

125
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 1: questions hasn't been and I'm not going to be surprised

126
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,040
Speaker 1: at all of the answer because he's not going to

127
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 1: answer that question. It's a question that contemplates of future

128
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 1: possible criminal prosecution, and as he's indicated repeatedly, he hasn't

129
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 1: been briefed. He hasn't even met with John Durham. He

130
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 1: needs to get into the department, find out what's going on,

131
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 1: and then make those decisions after that, sort of on

132
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 1: a personal level with him. Do you think a lot

133
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,720
Speaker 1: of attorneys would give up a federal judge ship a

134
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,959
Speaker 1: lifetime appointment to become the attorney general, which is such

135
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 1: an incredibly hard job. Yes, absolutely, Look, Louis Freed gave

136
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 1: up his job as a federal judge to become the

137
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,080
Speaker 1: head of the FBI, and I believe he did that

138
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 1: because he felt that that was his drive and his

139
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,160
Speaker 1: purpose in life to advance the ball. And I think

140
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 1: Merrick Darlan feels the same way. He is looking at

141
00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 1: a new step in his life. He believes that this

142
00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 1: is the right thing for him to do, and I

143
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:03,679
Speaker 1: think he'll do a fine job at it as a

144
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,319
Speaker 1: matter of fact. And so for him, it's not always

145
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,520
Speaker 1: about your job security, it's about doing what you think

146
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,960
Speaker 1: is right. Well. But okay, so now the differences between

147
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,559
Speaker 1: the Trump administration and the Biden administration are enormous. We

148
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 1: envision what does that mean for the priorities of the

149
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,560
Speaker 1: Justice Department. You're going to see a lot change in

150
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,080
Speaker 1: the priorities. And we're talking about the policy here, the

151
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,559
Speaker 1: use of consent decrees in the Civil Rights Division, the

152
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 1: ability to charge people and give discretion to the line

153
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 1: assist US attorneys. Attorney General as Croft hit his approach,

154
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,800
Speaker 1: which was less discretion. Eric Holder gave more discretion to

155
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,760
Speaker 1: the assistant at US Attorneys. Jeff Sessions was kind of

156
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 1: in the middle. But I think you're going to see

157
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 1: that Mary Garland wants to give more discretion to line

158
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,719
Speaker 1: assistant U S Attorneys. You'll see difference used on how

159
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,080
Speaker 1: to prosecute corporations. I mean, if you think about it

160
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,680
Speaker 1: that way, when you were in the Justice Department under

161
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,600
Speaker 1: President Trump, corporations didn't always have to provide cooperation and

162
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,920
Speaker 1: an investigation. But in the previous administration under Obama, corporations

163
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 1: were expected to cooperate. And I think you're going to

164
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 1: see a return to that. And I think you'll also

165
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 1: see a return to more significant signs for corporations and

166
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,560
Speaker 1: polluters who run a foul federal law. That's going to

167
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,200
Speaker 1: be very significant. I know personally from my discussions with

168
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 1: Deputy Attorney General Rosen that these things about finding a

169
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,960
Speaker 1: corporation or how to treat a corporation, I know that

170
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,120
Speaker 1: he thought very contemplatively about that. He thought very long

171
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 1: and hard about those types of decisions because of the

172
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 1: impact that that could have on shareholders and the corporation itself.

173
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 1: We have to see what the new approach will be

174
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,559
Speaker 1: under Merrick Garland. If you were advising a corporation, or

175
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 1: if you if you were running a corporation, what would

176
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,400
Speaker 1: you do. What's your best advice? I would say, look

177
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:14,560
Speaker 1: at your corporate compliance programs right now, because the President

178
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,560
Speaker 1: of the United States, Mr Biden has said that he

179
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:24,960
Speaker 1: will quote hold corporate executives personally accountable, including jail time unquote,

180
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 1: And if I were a corporate executive, I would want

181
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 1: to make sure that nobody in my company, nobody was

182
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,319
Speaker 1: committing any federal crimes, engaging in wrongdoing, who was polluting,

183
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,280
Speaker 1: was violating any type of regulation. Because the scrutiny is

184
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:47,040
Speaker 1: about to come, Does Garland have a say in who

185
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,400
Speaker 1: the U S Attorneys are for each district? I mean,

186
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:55,200
Speaker 1: how does that work? Not? Really? I mean the the

187
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,679
Speaker 1: president will get to select the U. S. Attorneys, and

188
00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 1: that really goes through. Often times there will be local

189
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,800
Speaker 1: committees and the local U. S. Senators will have a

190
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 1: lot of impact on that. And then once the U. S.

191
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 1: Senators decide that they feel comfortable with who the U. S.

192
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 1: Attorney nominee will be, that candidate will go to the

193
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 1: Justice Department and will have an interview with either the

194
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 1: Attorney General or the Deputy Attorney General prior to the appointment.

195
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,199
Speaker 1: But it's usually not that the Attorney General reaches out

196
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,439
Speaker 1: into the state and finds out who they want the U. S.

197
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 1: Attorney to be. Usually the reverse, the state's reach out

198
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,840
Speaker 1: to Washington d c and I know you had a

199
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: special take on the issue of domestic terrorism. Let's look

200
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 1: at where we are kind of in a historical context.

201
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,440
Speaker 1: Any time that there is a significant act in American history,

202
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 1: often federal law changes. If you look at the Rise

203
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 1: of the Mafia, the Congress decided that they would pass RICO.

204
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,960
Speaker 1: If you look at the Oklahoma City bombing, Congress decided

205
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,480
Speaker 1: to pass enhancements to the anti terrorism statutes. After September eleven,

206
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 1: Congress passed the Patriot Act. So now the question is,

207
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,160
Speaker 1: after the assault on the Capitol on January six, what

208
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 1: will the Congress respond to Will they pass additional legislation

209
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 1: that really gives us a more firm and usable domestic

210
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 1: terrorism law. That is a question that is on the

211
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 1: table really for Congress. I know it came up in

212
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,000
Speaker 1: the context of the hearing, but that's not really a

213
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 1: question for the incoming Attorney General. That's a policy choice

214
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,520
Speaker 1: that the Congress can make, and that is certainly to

215
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,480
Speaker 1: be covered in the next coming weeks and months. Thanks Matthew.

216
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 1: That's Matthew Schneiderman, former U S attorney in Michigan and

217
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 1: a partner at Huntingman Voting Machine company. Dominion is suing

218
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,320
Speaker 1: my Pillows chief executive officer, Mike Lindell, you know, one

219
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 1: point three billion dollar defamation lawsuit for echoing Donald Trump's

220
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,080
Speaker 1: hall has claimed that the voting machine company rigged the election.

221
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,920
Speaker 1: Joining me is Eric Larson, Bloomberg Legal reporter. So tell

222
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,760
Speaker 1: us about the lawsuit, Eric, So, Dominion sued Mike Lindel

223
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 1: four defamations cause for months he's been repeating this false

224
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,199
Speaker 1: claim that Dominion was part of a vast conspiracy to

225
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 1: uh flip millions of votes away from Trump to ensure

226
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,040
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's victory as part of this vast plot involving

227
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,640
Speaker 1: foreign agents, you know, communist money and even the late

228
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 1: Venezuelan dictator Hugo Shaviaz So uh he is one of

229
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 1: several people who who's been one of the loudest uh

230
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 1: amplifiers of these claims. And so the lawsuit was seen

231
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 1: as somewhat inevitable, and it was filed here just yesterday.

232
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 1: And Dominion claims that Lindale increased his sales by as

233
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 1: much as forty and would issue promotional codes for his

234
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:58,160
Speaker 1: product like fight for Trump and Q and UM. That's right.

235
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 1: The evidence played out in the This complaint, which is

236
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: more than a hundred pages, includes a lot of details, uh,

237
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, evidence from Mr Lindell's public appearances, whether on

238
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 1: sort of like a very conservative or right wing media outlets,

239
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 1: two appearances in person at events where he would be

240
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, ranting against this unfounded election fraud conspiracy, but

241
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 1: then at the same time also offering up promotional codes

242
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,520
Speaker 1: to get discounts on pillows and things like that. And

243
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 1: of course Trump, you know, was a supporter of of

244
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 1: his company as well. He suggested people go ahead and

245
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: buy his pillows, so he that he got an early

246
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 1: boost from Trump, you know, several years ago, and I

247
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 1: was sort of was returning to favor here by going

248
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,840
Speaker 1: on the road to suggest that Trump the election had

249
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,840
Speaker 1: been stolen from him. Dominion had warned Lindale, but Lindale

250
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 1: didn't back down, No, not at all. The complaints outlines

251
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 1: that several warning letters were sent to Mr Lendell suggesting

252
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,640
Speaker 1: that he stopped saying the things that he is saying.

253
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 1: Each time he would go ahead and get back on

254
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: the air and repeat the claims um Indeed, after the

255
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,080
Speaker 1: suit was filed yesterday, I had a phone call, a

256
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 1: phone conversation with Mr Lendell, and he doubled down again.

257
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 1: He a plot out repeated his claim that dominion voting

258
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 1: machines are specifically designed for fraud to steal elections. Um.

259
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: You know, said that again that it was part of

260
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 1: a plot involving China and other foreign agents. Uh so,

261
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 1: and insisting that he has mountains of evidence that he's

262
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 1: going to be able to present in this case, and

263
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 1: even saying that he welcomed the lawsuit being filed because

264
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,160
Speaker 1: now he'll have an opportunity to present all this evidence

265
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 1: in court and he's extremely confident that he's gonna win.

266
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 1: He told you these machines were built to steal elections.

267
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm not a stupid guy. If I didn't have a

268
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: hundred evidence, I wouldn't be doing this. That's correct, And

269
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,439
Speaker 1: you get a sense of of his approach to this

270
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,080
Speaker 1: litigation here. Um. He said as well that he has,

271
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, put all of this evidence up on a website.

272
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,480
Speaker 1: He even says he made um a documentary of his

273
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,600
Speaker 1: own that he's put online. Um. And and the characterization

274
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 1: of the evidence that he's talking about, you know, I

275
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,919
Speaker 1: haven't looked through at all, but it sounds similar to

276
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: some of the evidence that was put forward and or

277
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,440
Speaker 1: described in all these about sixty lawsuits after the election

278
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 1: by Trumpler's campaign or his allies that all failed, UM,

279
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 1: including several by Sydney Powell UM that have the same

280
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 1: allegations about this alleged you know conspiracy, UM. But those

281
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 1: there were a lot of affidavits that they weren't signed,

282
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 1: a lot of it was redacted, and a lot of

283
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 1: it has been like very explicitly debunked, UM, including especially

284
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: these affidavits around that Venezuelan link. But that doesn't seem

285
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,120
Speaker 1: to dissuade Mr Lindell UM. He again, he says he's

286
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 1: confident that he's going to win this case. Interesting that

287
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 1: dominion included in its complaint false claims he'd made about

288
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: his products. That's right. You've got a sense in the

289
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 1: complaints that Dominion wanted to Um sort of spell out

290
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 1: of history of of you know, false claims being made

291
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,439
Speaker 1: by Lindell and and My Pillow. And he did point

292
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,640
Speaker 1: out that in this complaints that several you know counties

293
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 1: in California had accused My Pillow and accused Lindell of

294
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,280
Speaker 1: making false claims about his My Pillow products, saying that

295
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: it's you know, cured all kinds of elements UM like

296
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: cyber myalgia and restless leg syndrome and insomnia, and there's

297
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, they said that's not true. You just can't

298
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 1: just can't make those claims about your pillows UM. And

299
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,360
Speaker 1: he did reach an agreement with the prosecutors to um

300
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 1: pay of just about a million dollars fines and a

301
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars UH in donations. On top of that.

302
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: So UM he also UH made some claims about a

303
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: product that supposedly with the pure or treatment for COVID

304
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 1: nineteen UM that he insisted had past phase one and

305
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,160
Speaker 1: phase two trials and that the FDA would soon be

306
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,400
Speaker 1: approving it UM. The complaint notes that none of those

307
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 1: trials took place, and of course the FDA did not

308
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 1: end up approving this. In fact, the FDA put out

309
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,680
Speaker 1: a statement specifically a warning people away from this product.

310
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: So you can see that there's a bit of a

311
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,199
Speaker 1: history of mister Lindell making claims it turned out to

312
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 1: not be true. UH, So they're trying to tie that

313
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 1: to the his claims about dominion. Thanks Erk. That's Eric Lawson,

314
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Legal reporter and that's it for this edition of

315
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: The Bloomberg Law Show. Remember you can always get the

316
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: latest legal news on a Bloomberg Law podcast. You can

317
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 1: find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at www dot

318
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 1: bloomberg dot com slash podcast slash Law. I'm June Grasso.

319
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening, and please turn into The

320
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,719
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law Show every week that attend d M Eastern

321
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 1: right here on Bloomberg Radio