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Speaker 1: We have a fascinating, or we hope fascinating classic episode

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Speaker 1: for you ridiculous historians. If you are a fan of baseball,

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Speaker 1: if you are a fan of LSD, this is the

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Speaker 1: episode for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's almost like, need we say more?

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Speaker 2: Doc Elis and the Legend of the LSD no Hitter.

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Speaker 2: Anyone out there that's a sports fan knows how hard

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Speaker 2: it is for a picture to achieve an entire game

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Speaker 2: where nobody hits the ball that they have thrown. Not

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Speaker 2: to mention while tripping on a heavy psychedelic.

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Speaker 3: So joyed us as we dive into this thoroughly ridiculous,

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Speaker 3: absolutely true story of how Doc Ellis became a beat

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Speaker 3: me here Max, A fucking legend.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio Quick Bait and Switch.

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Speaker 1: At the top of the show, Ladies and Gentlemen, friends

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Speaker 1: and neighbors, you may have thought you are tuning into

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Speaker 1: a podcast, but for the moment you are at a

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Speaker 1: baseball game. Hear the crowd, smell the popcorn, the hot dogs,

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Speaker 1: the distant crack of a baseball bat, the stale urine,

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Speaker 1: the sale you're the beer that somehow smells both like

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Speaker 1: beer and stale.

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Speaker 4: Urine, sort of a milans. Really, it all sort of

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Speaker 4: comes together. And now, what's the word miasma?

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Speaker 1: Miasthma, A collage for the senses, a nose collage, a

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Speaker 1: cavalcade of experience.

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Speaker 5: Hello, my name is Ben, my name is Nolan. We

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Speaker 5: love words.

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Speaker 1: We love words almost as much as we love our

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Speaker 1: super producer, Casey batter Up pegrum.

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Speaker 6: Noel.

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Speaker 1: I was wondering, now that we're at this hypothetical baseball game.

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Speaker 5: Were you much of a baseballer?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I played the outfield when I was like in

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Speaker 4: elementary school, but I was you know, I was a

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Speaker 4: turd rest of development. Yeah, I was no good and

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Speaker 4: I was just looking around, you know, just smelling the pee,

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Speaker 4: not really being a very effective part of the team.

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Speaker 1: Wait, you were in a stale urine soaked little league,

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Speaker 1: and they all they all smell like that, Ben, from

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Speaker 1: the little leagues to the minor leagues to the major leagues,

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Speaker 1: they all smell like p Well, we did grow up.

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Speaker 1: I do love that unintentional rume. We did grow up

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Speaker 1: in different towns. I associated with the smell of peanuts.

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Speaker 1: I was also an outfield guy, so maybe.

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Speaker 4: That's when I met pe nuts. Peanuts, go, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 4: I was confused.

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Speaker 5: No, no, no, not at all.

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Speaker 1: So it's strange because one of the one of the

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Speaker 1: most beautiful series of memories that I have from growing

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Speaker 1: up is that in the early nineties you could get very,

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Speaker 1: very cheap field side seats, and that was my primary

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Speaker 1: informative experience with baseball until we started doing Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: and exploring some of the strange baseball stories, most particularly

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Speaker 1: Curse of the Kernel. But even if you haven't played baseball,

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Speaker 1: or even if you hate baseball ridiculous historians, you have

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Speaker 1: probably experienced one of the most amazing cognitive things that

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Speaker 1: humans are capable of experiencing.

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Speaker 5: Dropping acid.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, flow state. Oh cool, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those too. Yeah. There are many roads to

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Speaker 1: the rome known as the Flow State Meditation Exercise LSD,

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Speaker 1: and today today our story encounters all three baseball LSD

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Speaker 1: and the flow state. It's true, at least it is

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Speaker 1: commonly accepted as true. Right, So, Noel, could you could

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Speaker 1: you set the scene? Could you take us there?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I will take you there.

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Speaker 4: It was a Friday on June the twelfth of nineteen seventy,

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Speaker 4: right on the tail end of you know, the rule

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Speaker 4: in the sixties, that's not what they were called.

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Speaker 5: That was the twenties. What were the sixties. What's a

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Speaker 5: good adjective for the sixties?

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Speaker 4: The vibrant, the vibrant, unbridled, unhinged, tune in, free lawn,

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Speaker 4: drop out, free love, free, all that stuff. And you know,

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Speaker 4: a big part of that was a guy named Timothy

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Speaker 4: Leary who was he worked at Harvard in the laboratories there,

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Speaker 4: but he researched with the effects of psychedelic drugs on

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Speaker 4: the mind, and he became this kind of Svengali of

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Speaker 4: the sixties and of psychedelic experiences.

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Speaker 5: Right, a guru figure. It's true. And there was another

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Speaker 5: guy named Doc Ellis.

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Speaker 4: On that day, June twelfth, nineteen seventy, who was a

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Speaker 4: fantastic pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates, and he had just

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Speaker 4: arrived at the stadium in San Diego, California, to be

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Speaker 4: the starting pitcher for a game against the San Diego Padres.

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Speaker 1: But here's the problem. He got there just an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half, ninety minutes before he's supposed to be

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Speaker 1: on the field, and he is not sober because he's

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Speaker 1: coming in and he had no idea that he was

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Speaker 1: supposed to play today. In fact, he has partied to

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Speaker 1: a cartoonish degree the night before, Right, he's dropped acid.

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Speaker 1: He drank like a fish, and he woke up the

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Speaker 1: same day and I think it was about what about

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Speaker 1: noon that he took another hit of acid.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he was in Los Angeles, there's his hometown. The

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Speaker 4: game was in San Diego. He thought he had a

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Speaker 4: day off. He did have a day off, but he

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Speaker 4: burned through that day off as you just described. And

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Speaker 4: then he woke up at around noon after having taken

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Speaker 4: another hit. And it was a friend, a girlfriend of

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Speaker 4: one of his childhood friends who he was hanging out

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Speaker 4: with and then crashed over there with, showed him the newspaper,

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Speaker 4: the day's newspaper, the sports page more specifically, which said, hey,

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Speaker 4: you're the starting pitcher for this game that's about to

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Speaker 4: happen today in San Diego. So he got all the

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Speaker 4: stuff together, ran the airport while tripping on LSD. Mind,

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Speaker 4: you caught an afternoon flight and a cab directly to

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Speaker 4: the stadium.

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Speaker 1: And here's the there's this great article on ESPN by

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Speaker 1: Patrick Ruby that explained it this way, and this is

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Speaker 1: according to doc Ellis himself. He landed in the San

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Speaker 1: Diego airport. He hopped in a cab outside and all

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Speaker 1: he said was, Casey, can you beat me on this?

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Speaker 1: Get to the stadium? I got a pitch, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: pitch he did.

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Speaker 4: You know what's funny, I'm thinking about all this, and

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking about just the stress of going to the

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Speaker 4: airport in general, and like being on a tight timeline,

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Speaker 4: being worried about missing your flight, or being worried about

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Speaker 4: missing your appointment or whatever. Can you imagine that with

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Speaker 4: the added stress of, you know, being in an altered state.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking about this because you know, stress

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Speaker 1: can be such a personal thing, you know. I was

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Speaker 1: wondering how much would it stress him out? To me,

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Speaker 1: being late for something is more stressful than going to

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Speaker 1: an airport. I hate being late for stuff. But regardless

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Speaker 1: of which way you look at it, compounding that with

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Speaker 1: an altered state of consciousness, and then also compounding that

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Speaker 1: with the fact that you are a public performer. You're

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Speaker 1: an athlete, right, who's going to be performing in crowd.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you're late to your job as an

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Speaker 1: archivist in a basement where no one will see you

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Speaker 1: for eight hours. He was also twenty five years old,

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Speaker 1: known for his curveball and his partying days. That's another

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Speaker 1: thing that makes me wonder about his state of stress

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Speaker 1: in this moment, was because it wasn't like this was

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Speaker 1: his first bender.

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Speaker 5: Not at all. No, not at all. And we will

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Speaker 5: get to that.

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Speaker 4: But let's hear a little clip that does a really

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Speaker 4: good job of summing up how it might have felt

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Speaker 4: to be standing in that particular situation, in that particular

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Speaker 4: state of mind.

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Speaker 7: There was one guy, one guy who had an amazing

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Speaker 7: claim to fame in terms of drugs and sports. His

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Speaker 7: name was Doc Ellis, and Doc Ellis did an incredible thing.

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Speaker 7: The one person who knows, Thank you, doc Ellis pitched

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Speaker 7: a no hitter on LSD.

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Speaker 5: You've taken LSD.

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Speaker 7: Tell the others how hard that might be. If I

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Speaker 7: took LSD, I'd be talking to every blade of grass

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Speaker 7: like sorry, sorry, sir, to walk into a Major League

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Speaker 7: Baseball stadium like.

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Speaker 5: The whole feel is okay. So your little creative license

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Speaker 5: there from Robin Williams.

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Speaker 4: But he did tip us off to the outcome of this,

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Speaker 4: this this thing that doc Ellis did.

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Speaker 5: He pitched a no hitter.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and this is an incredibly rare feat. In one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty six years of baseball history, only two

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy six no hitters have ever been recorded,

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Speaker 1: and as far as we know, this is the only

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Speaker 1: one that occurred under the influence of LSD. And it's

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Speaker 1: strange because you would expect maybe he would call out

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Speaker 1: of the game, maybe he would show up and have

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Speaker 1: an abysmal performance, But he played on acid, not only

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Speaker 1: well but spectacularly. He also did walk quite a few batters,

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Speaker 1: but no one hit a ball that he threw. And additionally,

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Speaker 1: no one knew that he was on LSD, or virtually

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Speaker 1: no one. It wasn't until fourteen years later that Ellis

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Speaker 1: confirmed to a reporter at the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that

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Speaker 1: he had played the game on acid. And the reporter,

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Speaker 1: Bob Smisik, brought this up because he was working off

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Speaker 1: a tip somebody had told them there was a rumor. Also,

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Speaker 1: Ellis didn't just say that he took acid. He said

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Speaker 1: he took acid that he received from Tim Leary, the

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Speaker 1: guru himself.

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Speaker 5: He did say that thing. Ben.

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Speaker 4: It's very true, and it's a problematic story for a

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Speaker 4: few reasons that come from that ESPN article that we

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Speaker 4: talked about earlier, but it's called the Long Strange Trip

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Speaker 4: of Ellis. But it wasn't smysic that Doc told that

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Speaker 4: particular part of the story too. It was later when

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Speaker 4: he was inducted into something called the Baseball Reliquary Shrine

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Speaker 4: of the Eternals that was in Pasadena, California, and he

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Speaker 4: was talking to the executive director I named Terry Cannon,

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Speaker 4: who he told that Leary, that former Harvard psych professor

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Speaker 4: had given him the drug because he wanted to see

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Speaker 4: he wanted to test how it would affect a professional athlete.

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Speaker 1: That's a weird claim, though, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: It's a very weird claim, a claim that has several

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Speaker 4: serious problems that are outlined beautifully in this article. One

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Speaker 4: of the big ones right off the bat was that

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Speaker 4: during this time Leary was in fact incarcerated, and that

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Speaker 4: comes from his biography Robert Greenfield.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then another thing is he said that he got

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Speaker 1: the acid from a UCLA laboratory. And also people on

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Speaker 1: leside don't agree.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Leary actually has a personal archivist, a guy named Michael Horowitz,

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Speaker 4: that said this was just almost definitely bogus, based on

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Speaker 4: I think probably most specifically the fact that he was

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Speaker 4: in jail. But he did say that Leary knew about

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Speaker 4: the new hitter and found out about it, and that

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Speaker 4: he had purchased Leary some of Doc Ellis's baseball cards,

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Speaker 4: and that Leary carried one around with him for the

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Speaker 4: rest of his life to show off to fans of

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Speaker 4: psychedelics and sports.

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Speaker 1: Right, So if we look at the timeline here, that

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Speaker 1: makes it sound much more likely that Leary, while a fan,

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Speaker 1: learned of this experience afterwards rather than beforehand. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean.

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Speaker 5: I do know what you mean.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting too, because Ellis had, as you said,

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Speaker 4: been a reputation that was not only about partying, but

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Speaker 4: was it just about being kind of his own kind

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Speaker 4: of free spirit in jail, he kind of did things

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Speaker 4: his own way, march to his own drummer, and you know,

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Speaker 4: you get the gist.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He described himself as arrogant, flamboyant, and controversial. There's

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Speaker 1: an article from The Washington Post by Matt Shudel that

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Speaker 1: explains some of Ellis's erratic behavior, or at least depicts it.

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Speaker 1: He was known for throwing balls directly at batters, arguing

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Speaker 1: with managers and players from other teams, and he even

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Speaker 1: chased Heckler's in the stands. So you know, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of fans of sports who will heckel the

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Speaker 1: opposing team's players. This was a guy who would come

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Speaker 1: after you.

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Speaker 5: Oh big time. It is crazy.

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Speaker 4: And he came up in the minors like he was like,

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Speaker 4: I think eighteen years old when he got recruited, maybe

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Speaker 4: nineteen when he first started playing for the Pittsburgh Pirates,

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Speaker 4: and this was during a time of horrible racial inequality

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Speaker 4: in the United States.

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Speaker 1: He refused in many ways to fit in that stereo

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Speaker 1: tear typical cookie cutter image that mass media and the

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Speaker 1: culture of the time would try to force people into

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Speaker 1: based on what they perceived as what this person should

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Speaker 1: be like or what they were doing. One of my

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Speaker 1: favorite examples he once showed up in the Pirate's bullpen

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Speaker 1: wearing hair curlers because he said that the resulting moisture

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Speaker 1: on his head would help him throw his signature into

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Speaker 1: illegal spitball, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Very illegalist.

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Speaker 4: Spitball is an illegal pitch where the pitcher actually changes

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Speaker 4: the way the ball contacts the hand by putting spit

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Speaker 4: or some kind of like foreign substance like petroleum jelly

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Speaker 4: or in this case, the sweat off of the back

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Speaker 4: of his neck.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, he.

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Speaker 4: Actually got issued a letter from the commissioner of Major

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Speaker 4: League Baseball ordering him not to wear hair curlers. And

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Speaker 4: the thing with him was he just didn't like being

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Speaker 4: told what to do. And he might have come off

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Speaker 4: as erratic or just wilful, but he kind of knew

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Speaker 4: what he was doing. According to a lot of his

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Speaker 4: childhood friends, people that had known him his whole life,

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Speaker 4: that were interviewed in a really cool movie called No No,

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Speaker 4: a documentary Dock which is excellent and a really good

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Speaker 4: deep dive into this very divisive and interesting man's life.

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Speaker 4: So in the film, another picture named Steve Blass said

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Speaker 4: that in those days, which was the sixties, they were

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Speaker 4: playing a lot of day games, so everyone was showing

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Speaker 4: up completely hungover, and one way that you dealt with

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Speaker 4: that was by taking amphetamines.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: See history today remembers doc Ellis primarily as the guy

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Speaker 1: who pitched a no hitter while he was on LSD.

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Speaker 1: But there are a couple of things that are misremembered there.

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Speaker 1: One is the nature of LSD you'r acid and how

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Speaker 1: high he would have been actually, And then the second

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Speaker 1: thing is that was not the normal thing. It was

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Speaker 1: much more normal for players to be consuming amphetamines.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, several players from that era were interviewed for this film,

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Speaker 4: and I think the number got as high as like

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Speaker 4: ninety six percent. These guys are obviously, you know, editorializing

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Speaker 4: here a little bit. There's no poll that was taken,

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Speaker 4: but they were in the game. You know, they were

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Speaker 4: around these guys, and they knew what was done. And

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Speaker 4: it wasn't like people weren't juicing in those days. They

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Speaker 4: weren't taking steroids necessarily. They were popping Benny's and Greenies.

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Speaker 1: Or Dexa mil right, which was a drug a choice.

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Speaker 1: And this was kind of before the era of widespread

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Speaker 1: steroid uses.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: So one thing we absolutely want to do in the

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Speaker 1: exploration of this story is established that, yeah, Doc Ellis

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Speaker 1: may have been the only person on the field on LSD,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean he was the only person on

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Speaker 1: the field on.

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Speaker 5: Drugs in an altered state.

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Speaker 4: In an altered state, right, because I mean the thing

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Speaker 4: about you know, those kinds of amphetamine, this is the

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff that fighter pilots would take you know,

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Speaker 4: during World War Two, Hitler.

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Speaker 5: Was quite fond of them.

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Speaker 4: Not to equate baseball players from the sixties with Adolf Hitler,

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Speaker 4: but it was certainly a tool of war. And sports

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Speaker 4: are nothing if not organized war where nobody dies, you know.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the more popular philosophical interpretations of athleticism

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Speaker 1: that goes back, you know, into ancient days brandy circuses, right, right,

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Speaker 1: weren't the chop heads.

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Speaker 4: Although people might die of like heatstroke or you know,

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Speaker 4: some sort of dramatic brain injury over time, but typically

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Speaker 4: you would not see people carried off of the field

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Speaker 4: of baseball in a stretcher.

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Speaker 1: And there was also a pro cannabis culture at the time, Right,

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Speaker 1: it was not uncommon for athletes to also smoke weed.

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Speaker 5: It's true, And I'm wondering, man, I couldn't quite find this.

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Speaker 4: But when did it, Like if this was such common

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Speaker 4: knowledge or it just seems so obvious. I did see

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Speaker 4: a trainer saying I don't want this in my locker room.

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Speaker 4: Don't let me see you doing it. But certainly seemed

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Speaker 4: quite pervasive. When was it that, like widespread drug testing

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Speaker 4: became a thing in Major League baseball.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to wonder if it was a result

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Speaker 1: of widespread drug test policies. Maybe players only stopped doing

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Speaker 1: this stuff when it became a firable or finable offense, right,

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Speaker 1: other than someone writing a angry letter to you. There's

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Speaker 1: also a question about how much drug use really has dwindled.

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Speaker 1: According to an article by Huffington Post written by Andy

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Speaker 1: Martino in twenty seventeen, current and former baseball players have

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Speaker 1: said that as many as twenty five percent of Major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball players have you cocaine? So, is it a

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Speaker 1: situation where there are fewer altered states? Or is this

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Speaker 1: situation where the type of drug changes but drug use

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Speaker 1: still exist.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not quite sure.

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure either. But it's mystifying because as

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Speaker 1: a fairly square person myself, I would just imagine that

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Speaker 1: these all have radically different effects.

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Speaker 5: Right, I would think so. Ben.

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Speaker 4: Here's the thing too about doc ellis he you know,

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Speaker 4: we talk about the drug use, We talked about him

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Speaker 4: being a bit of a loose cannon, but he was

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Speaker 4: described by a lot of his friends in this documentary as.

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Speaker 5: Being controlled crazy. They called him controlled crazy.

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Speaker 4: He knew how to keep his wild behavior in check

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Speaker 4: and to do it just enough so that it could

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Speaker 4: make him money like Dennis Robins style.

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Speaker 1: Right, So there might be some marketing there, some focused

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Speaker 1: application of eccentricity or insanity.

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Speaker 5: That's right, because you have to think too.

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Speaker 4: In those days, especially during this No hitter, African American

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Speaker 4: pop culture had really infiltrated the mainstream, and Doc was

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Speaker 4: a flashy guy.

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Speaker 5: He had fashion sense.

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Speaker 4: He liked to wear big, loud colors and big, you know,

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Speaker 4: clunky clogs and bell bottoms, and he was like one

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Speaker 4: of the first guys to wear an earring. Very ahead

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Speaker 4: of his time culturally, at least in terms of baseball,

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Speaker 4: because he actually was quoted as saying when talking about

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Speaker 4: the nineteen seventy one All Star Game that baseball was

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Speaker 4: pretty backwards when it came to black players. And there

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Speaker 4: was a controversy because he really liked to stir stuff up,

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Speaker 4: and in the press he came out and said, you

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Speaker 4: were not going to put two brothers against each other

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Speaker 4: in this All Star Game, meaning they had already said

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Speaker 4: that they were going to start the American League team

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Speaker 4: with Vida Blue, who was a black pitcher, and Doc

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Speaker 4: thought that he was going to not get to start

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Speaker 4: for his league because a guy named Sparky Anderson, a

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Speaker 4: white guy, was probably going to get that privilege.

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Speaker 5: So he got the.

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Speaker 4: Media all stirred up and was kind of able to

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Speaker 4: bait them into getting him exactly what he wanted, and

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Speaker 4: he was He started in the All Star Game, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's strange because looking back in his later interviews

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Speaker 1: when he sobered up, Ellis said that he did not

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Speaker 1: remember a lot of these activities. Not only did he

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Speaker 1: not remember a lot of the details of his legendary

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Speaker 1: no hitter run, he also said he didn't remember much

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Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy in general.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like, what is it Matt LeBlanc and Friends.

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Speaker 4: He said he couldn't remember like a whole season of

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Speaker 4: that show because he was on so many pills the

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Speaker 4: whole time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I can't imagine not remembering like a whole year.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it could happen for a number of reasons.

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Speaker 1: I've got I got a few fuzzy ones. I think

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Speaker 1: I'm going to take us down a really brief side

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Speaker 1: trail here that listeners from some of the other shows

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Speaker 1: are familiar with, regardless of what sort of substances you

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Speaker 1: may or may not take throughout your life. Your memory

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Speaker 1: is treacherous and works against you, oh for sure, because

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Speaker 1: every time you're remembering something, you're not remembering the event,

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Speaker 1: you're remembering the last time you remembered it. So you're

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Speaker 1: playing a game of telephone with yourself. That's why you

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Speaker 1: will see even an accounts we've presented in this show.

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Speaker 1: That's why I'll see people who years later claim that

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Speaker 1: a myth about them is true, even when it is

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Speaker 1: demonstrably not the case. And I had a question with Ellis.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel, Noel, but I believe

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Speaker 1: the LSD story. I think it's true.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In fact, you can hear Doc himself describe all of

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Speaker 4: this in a really cool animated short by an outfit

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Speaker 4: called No Moss that's illustrated by a guy named James

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Speaker 4: Blagden and has audio from an interview that Ellis did

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Speaker 4: in two thousand and eight on NPR with Donnelle Alexander

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Speaker 4: and Niley elll And it's a really really cool video.

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Speaker 4: And when we play a little clip of that audio

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Speaker 4: right now, I didn't see the hitters.

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Speaker 8: All I could tell was if there was on the

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Speaker 8: right side or.

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Speaker 5: The left side.

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Speaker 8: The catcher put tape on his favors so I could

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Speaker 8: see the signals. We had a rookie on a team

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Speaker 8: at that particular time named Dave Cash, and he kept

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Speaker 8: saying after the first inning, he said, you gotta know

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Speaker 8: no going no hit it.

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Speaker 4: I said, yeah, right, yeah, I don't know, Ben, But

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Speaker 4: hearing him tell that story, it sure sounds like somebody

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Speaker 4: telling a story they actually believe happened.

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Speaker 5: But it's hard to say.

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Speaker 4: We also know that he was probably not telling the

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Speaker 4: truth about the whole Timothy Leary thing. So you know,

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Speaker 4: I guess the jury is out, but I would like

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Speaker 4: to believe that it happened.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know about you, fellow ridiculous historians, but

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Speaker 1: I largely believe the bones of this story, the structure

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Speaker 1: of it. However, I have some pretty pertinent questions, one

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Speaker 1: being the degree of alteration that applied. If you look

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Speaker 1: at the timeline of the LSD was taking the way

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Speaker 1: LSD works, was he taking a larger hit, you know,

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Speaker 1: was he off his cantalopes or was he experiencing the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of what Silicon Valley and Burning Man fans would

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Speaker 1: call a microdose yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, from hearing him tell it, this

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Speaker 4: was his second tab that he had taken, and in

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Speaker 4: those days that stuff probably would have been pretty potent,

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Speaker 4: So I would lean more towards the what the kids

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Speaker 4: called trip and balls.

436
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Speaker 1: So this LSD probably would have come from a source

437
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: similar to Owlsley, the legendary LSD supplier. And the reason

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering about the microdosing is because preliminary studies, which

439
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: have only occurred quite recently, seemed to indicate that there

440
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Speaker 1: may be some sort of relationship between what we call

441
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Speaker 1: the flow state and the use of small amounts of hallucinogens,

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Speaker 1: not just LSD but psilocybin. So without getting two into it,

443
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: I have some I have some pretty fascinating studies, but

444
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: I'd like to hear from you folks. Do you think

445
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: that there was a relationship between the LSD that doc

446
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: Ellis consumed. Did it put him in a flow state

447
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: similar to the experience people would have when they practice

448
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: the use of transcranial direct current simulation or meditation or

449
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: what have you, or do you think it was a coincidence?

450
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: Do you think he succeeded in spite of this?

451
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 4: You know, I did hear or I read that that

452
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 4: year the Padres were not particularly good.

453
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 5: They had lost like nineteen thumping games in that season,

454
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 5: so you know, could have just been a bad performance

455
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 5: on their part.

456
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 4: That either way, it's it's it's pretty impressive that a

457
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 4: guy could perform that well under the influence of such

458
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 4: a mind altering substance.

459
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Ellis's Ellis's importance and his influence were not

460
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: just confined to the field of play. He was influential

461
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,479
Speaker 1: and important on the US cultural stage, and other people

462
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: acknowledged this right very much.

463
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: So, I mean, we talked about how he was able

464
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 4: to influence that decision of starting two black pitchers against

465
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 4: one another in the nineteen seventy one All Star Game.

466
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 4: Also that year, he went on to win the World

467
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 4: Series with the Pirates, and one of his mentors was

468
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: a Puerto Rican player, also black, by the name of

469
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 4: Roberto Clemente, who was himself an outspoken opponent of racism

470
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 4: in baseball, and he and Ellis ended up being on

471
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 4: a version of the Pirates that had nine black players,

472
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 4: and it really kind of was right on this turning

473
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 4: point of culture where black culture became much more mainstream

474
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 4: like we talked about earlier, and players on the team

475
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 4: talk about this being a historic thing and just being

476
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 4: about the fact that everyone was fantastic baseball players. So

477
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 4: he really helped turn that conversation around to the point

478
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 4: where he actually got a very important letter from Jackie Robinson.

479
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 4: And actually here's a clip of Doc reading a bit

480
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 4: of this letter from that documentary called No No.

481
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 6: I read your coments in our paper the last few

482
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 6: days and wanted you to know how much I appreciate

483
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 6: your courage and honesty. In my opinion, progress for today's

484
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 6: players will only come from this kind of dedication.

485
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 5: I'm sure.

486
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 6: Also you know some of the possible consequences. The news media,

487
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 6: while knowing full well you're right and honest, will use

488
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 6: every means to get back at you. That will be

489
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 6: times when you will ask yourself, is it worth it all?

490
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 6: I can only say, Doc, it is, And even though

491
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 6: you will want to yield, in the long run, your

492
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 6: own feeling of yourself will be most important. So I'd

493
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 6: have to be left alone.

494
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: So he goes on to say, try to get more

495
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: players to understand your views and you will find great support.

496
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: You have made a real contribution. I surely hope your

497
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: great ability continues. That ability will determine the success of

498
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: your dedication and honesty. I again appreciate what you were doing.

499
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: Continued success, Jackie Robinson, and you can read the full

500
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: letter on various sites online. Just search for Jackie Robinson

501
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: and Doc Ellis. This leads us to perhaps one of

502
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: the most important points of the story, which is the following.

503
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 5: It is very easy, it.

504
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: Is tempting, and it is guess fun to think of

505
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: doc Ellis solely as a guy who said, I started

506
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: having a crazy idea in the fourth inning that Richard

507
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: Nixon was the home played umpire. I thought I was

508
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: pitching a baseball to Jimmy Hendricks and so on. But

509
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: that is a mischaracterization. We are defining an entire person

510
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: by one afternoon in their life. And as Brittany de

511
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: la Cretaz argues in a Rolling Stone article, how Doc Ellis,

512
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: player who pitched a no hitter on LSD, is misremembered,

513
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: it is better, and more importantly, it is more accurate

514
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: to remember him as an outspoken advocate not just for

515
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: racial equality but also for sobriety. Doc Ellis retired from

516
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: baseball in nineteen eighty and he didn't have some egregious

517
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: injury that rendered him physically incapable playing the game. According

518
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: to him, he lost interest in the game and in

519
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: that same year he entered rehab. He stayed for forty

520
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: days at a location in Wickenberg, Arizona, known as the Meadows.

521
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until nineteen eighty four that he revealed

522
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: he had pitched this no hitter under the influence of

523
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: LSD and once achieving sobriety, he spent the rest of

524
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: his life helping other people escape drug addiction, which is commendable,

525
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: you know. And he spent twenty eight years doing this.

526
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was no joke about it either.

527
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 4: I mean he brought that same bravado and intensity that

528
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: he brought to the game and that he used to

529
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 4: not take any crap from anybody in terms of the

530
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 4: way he dealt with racism. He brought that same energy

531
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 4: to helping people escape their demons and their addictions and

532
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 4: not taking no for an answer and not putting up

533
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 4: with anyone making excuses for themselves.

534
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 5: Yeah.

535
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: And he had worked as a counselor in Beverly Hills.

536
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: He had worked in jails and institutions and juvenile detention centers,

537
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: And you know, you kind of have to wonder, and

538
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what whether there's an answer to this,

539
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: but you kind of have to wonder why, out of

540
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: the almost three decades of work he did helping people

541
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: achieve sobriety, he is still known for one, granted, one

542
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: amazing game, but one LSD influenced game in nineteen seventy.

543
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: I don't know what the answer is.

544
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 5: I mean, from his own mouth.

545
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: Apparently one of his favorite phrases around the house was

546
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 4: f baseball. He apparently, according to this fantastic ESPN article,

547
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 4: felt very used up and abused by it, having started

548
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 4: at it at such a young age, and despite achieving

549
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 4: such a great success, it being a very big part

550
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 4: of his young adult life that possibly led to some

551
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: of these substance abuse problems to help deal with pain

552
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 4: that he had in his arm from throwing the ball

553
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: so hard all the time, from traveling around, being constantly

554
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 4: on the road, feeling a little uprooted and isolated. And

555
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 4: these are his own words from the documentary, So you know,

556
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 4: I could see how that would be a complicated relationship.

557
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: It's something that gave him much success and accolades, but

558
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 4: he never played a game sober.

559
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 5: He did try to one time.

560
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy three, gave it.

561
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 4: A shot and started warming up in the bullpen, only

562
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: to realize that he had quote forgotten how to throw.

563
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: It's interesting because it ties into something that people call

564
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: state dependent learning.

565
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 5: Have you heard of this?

566
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 7: I have.

567
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: It's the idea that the substances influencing your body when

568
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: you are learning or engaging in a certain skill then

569
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: have an effect on your performance and that skill. So,

570
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: for instance, a more wholesome version of this would be

571
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: the idea that when you drink coffee and you're studying something,

572
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: then you are going to be more likely to successfully

573
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: recall it when you are drinking coffee again, right, that's

574
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: a very at base explanation, but it can extend to

575
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: other substances as well. Oh, I should also mention he

576
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: was he was an advocate for the treatment of sickle

577
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: cell that's right.

578
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 4: He was able to get funding in somewhere in the

579
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: neighborhood of one hundred and forty million dollars for that

580
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: disease that was largely misunderstood and a huge problem for

581
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 4: the African American community.

582
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty ninety sort of returned to baseball when

583
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: he served as a player and coach for the Saint

584
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: Petersburg Pelicans of the Senior Professional Baseball Association, but that was,

585
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: I think more for the love of the game.

586
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 4: He also had a little stint in acting, I think,

587
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 4: where he was in a movie with Michael Keaton.

588
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gung Ho, which was nineteen eighty six, directed by

589
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: Ron Howard. In two thousand and seven, Doc Ellis was

590
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: diagnosed with cirrhosis and was placed on the list for

591
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: a liver transplant.

592
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 4: And he did pass away two thousand and eight because

593
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: unfortunately he had already sustained some damage to his heart

594
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 4: and it was too risky to do a liver transplant.

595
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 4: And Yeah, you can't help it think that that liver

596
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 4: problems like that were the result of a lifetime of

597
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 4: that substance abuse. Despite having dealt with that and been

598
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 4: a huge beacon of hope for others that we're dealing

599
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 4: with those problems, that stuff does catch up to you.

600
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: It's it's absolutely true, and it's a shame that he

601
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: was not around to see No No, a documentary which

602
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: came out in twenty fourteen. A few years after his passing,

603
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: he was interred at the Inglewood Park Cemetery in Inglewood, California.

604
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: And although Doc Ellis may have physically left us today,

605
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: his legacy continues on. And it's not just a story

606
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: about again an amazing afternoon in baseball. It's a story

607
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: about a man who struggled first to save himself, then

608
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: to improve society, and then ultimately to save others that

609
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: he met in similar situations. That's beautiful, it really is,

610
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: and we hope that you think so too. This is

611
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: a fun one to look into.

612
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 4: Cannot recommend enough that ESPN article from Outside the Lines

613
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 4: called the Long Strange Trip of Doc Ellis, Meet the

614
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 4: Man behind Baseball's most Psychedelic Myth. You can find that

615
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 4: online in full by Patrick Ruby. It's also got some

616
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 4: fantastic photos and illustrations by Joe Chiardello. Also cannot recommend

617
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 4: enough the documentary No No, a documentary.

618
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 5: You can stream that on Amazon Prime. I think it's

619
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 5: like a couple bucks.

620
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: And well worth it. It's money well spent in the meantime.

621
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: Although the podcast is over for today, if you have

622
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: a hankering to encounter more history of the Ridiculous variety.

623
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram, you can find us

624
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: on faceboo book, you can find us on Twitter. We'd

625
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: especially like to recommend our community page, Ridiculous Historians, where

626
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: you can interact with your fellow listeners, all of whom,

627
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: as far as I have found, are witty, funny, and insightful.

628
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: It's true memes a plenty, a lot of fun to

629
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 4: be had there, so check it out and also do

630
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: us a solid and leave us a nice review on

631
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 4: iTunes because it makes us feel good and our tummies.

632
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: And stay tuned when we return very soon in our

633
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: next episode to crack the case for a question we

634
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: might not have known you had. When did Fido become

635
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: a stand in name for dogs?

636
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 5: Here boy, here boy, while you're.

637
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: Waiting for a dog that heard that through your headphones

638
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: to run towards you. We would like to thank superproducer

639
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: Casey Pegrom. We would like to thank our research assistant

640
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: Christopher Hasiotis.

641
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 4: We'd like to thank Alex Williams, friend of the show,

642
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 4: who composed our theme, and most importantly, we'd like to

643
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 4: thank you for hanging out with.

644
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 5: Us and being a lot of fun. We'll see you

645
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 5: next time

646
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

647
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.