WEBVTT - Music Saved Me | Beth Neilsen Chapman 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:02.000 Music Saved Me. 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:06.760 I trust that there's a collaboration going on that's beyond 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:08.280 the wisdom that I have in. 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:09.840 The moment that I'm writing something down. 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.800 And so often I will write a song not even 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.119 realizing that I'm writing it for something that's going to 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 happen in the future. It's happened so many times that 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:22.640 I totally trust that when I'm writing something and I'm 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:24.759 just following it kind of blindly, like I wonder why 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.000 that word popped into my head, I write it all 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:31.560 down because there's something bigger than me that I can 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:32.400 draw from. 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.800 I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Save Me Podcast, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.640 the show where we highlight one of the greatest joys imaginable, 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.040 the healing power of music. I talk with musicians of 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.080 all different types who all talk about their personal stories 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.640 and about their experience with the healing power of music. 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.040 And on this episode, I get to talk to a 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.680 musician who truly understands how music saves us. Beth Nielsen 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:01.000 Chapman is a musician, a singer songwriter who has truly 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.959 embraced musical diversity. Welcome Beth Nielsen Chapman to Music Saved Me. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.400 Your story so epitomizes what Music Saved Me podcast is 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.840 all about. And we're so grateful to have you with 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:13.399 us today. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.280 Thank you for having me. And I love the title 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.679 of your podcast. It got me right away. I'm like, oh, 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:19.960 that's what I preach. 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.200 We got you when we reeled you in. It took 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.480 a little while, but we got you here. I'm so grateful. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.639 My first question to you is when was the first 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.280 moment in your life when you knew that music moved 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.000 you and it would be your life calling. 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.600 Oh boy, there's probably several of those, but I remember 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:45.759 being kind of my pilot light came on around songs 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:50.200 when I was probably eleven or twelve, when I was 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.080 playing with a friend and I was over at her 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.200 house and in the kitchen radio I heard Penny Lane 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:01.200 for the first time, and it was shocking to me 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:02.760 and just we were jumping on the bed and I 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:04.560 was like, and I like got got off the bed 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.720 and went wandering into the kitchen, stood in front of 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:11.280 the radio and just was like mesmerized by that joy, 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:16.760 you know, Benny Lane, you know, just and then I 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:18.840 mean before that, I had been listening to my parents, 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.160 you know, records, and I remember when Tijuana Brass and 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:25.799 The Lonely Bowl came out and I was like five 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.680 years old, I was like, oh, you know, these like 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.920 records that I would just get in my head and 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.600 I'd go around singing them. So I wasn't really thinking, oh, 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.680 I'm going to do this for a living until way 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.840 later than that. But I always felt just ignited by music. 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.440 And as I got older, and you know, and I 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.520 was a teenager and I started listening to all the 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.960 singer songwriters at the seventies, and you know, it just 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.120 became a complete and total necessary part. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:57.120 Of life to get through the stuff. From a very 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:57.680 early age. 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.120 I will have to say this, and you know, maybe 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.320 people might disagree, but I think the seventies were like 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:09.480 the pinnacle of music. Artists were together in a studio 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.040 looking at each other, and yeah. 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:12.560 It was pretty amazing. 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.519 Do you recall us an experience or a concert experience 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.640 that first connected you with, like maybe your favorite artist. 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.200 You know, I didn't go to tons of concerts for 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.239 some reason. I remember seeing Joni Mitchell, but I was 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.160 up in the nosebleed seats and you know, could barely 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.240 see her and it was just all echo up there. 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.480 But I mean, as I came into the music business more. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.880 I mean I played in all kinds of different bands 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.080 and stuff and just you know, it was just eating, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.160 drinking and sleeping music twenty four to seven. I signed 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.480 my first publishing and record deal when I was fifteen, 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.080 and my dad had to co sign it. We were 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.520 living in Alabama. My dad was in the Air Force, 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.040 so we moved around all through my childhood, but we'd 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:00.560 ended up in Alabama and I remember begging him, Oh, 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.560 this guy has a studio and he's going to get 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.480 me a record deal. And my dad was like, you know, 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.320 you gotta finish high school first. I'm like, yeah, but 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.080 I mean, you know, so he got a lawyer, but 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.960 he got a cattle lawyer, and you know, the guy 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.119 just did you know he read the thing, was like, yeah, 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.120 it looks like she doesn't have to pay any money, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.720 So I guess it's okay, you know, like I should 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.000 have had, Like I always tell people, get a music 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:22.440 attorney because it's totally different. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:23.599 So, you know. 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.680 But my first inkling of it being valuable was a 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.160 couple of years later when that contract got sold to 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:36.000 a real publishing company in Nashville, EMI and. 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:38.840 They paid him, like, you know. 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.520 Twelve fifteen thousand dollars for my fifty songs. They paid 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:45.760 the guy that had signed me to the slave contract 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.040 that didn't That wasn't fair. And I just went, Wow, 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.360 this stuff is really valuable. And I still to this day, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.400 you know, when I'm talking to young songwriters who are 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.880 struggling because you know, if you're just a songwriter, it's 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.359 kind of hard to make a living right now, and 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:04.760 I say, but don't worry. Your work is generating way 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.320 more than what the trickle down that we're getting. It's 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:10.719 just a temporary glitch in the system that'll get sorted 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.440 out later. But know that the value of your work 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.760 is that you're creating something that moves people and shifts 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.840 their paradigm. And if they need to cry sometimes it'll 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:22.640 help them cry. If they need to laugh, it'll help 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.839 them laugh. It's really powerful stuff. Songs are really powerful 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.840 little pieces of medicine that are out in the world 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.960 that are healing people all day long, you know, whether 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.880 it's making you just feel better or literally getting those 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.640 tears to come to the surface that are stuck, you know, 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.800 And I'm just amazed by it every day, you know, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.760 I'm amazed by it, and I'm so grateful that I 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.680 get to do it, you know, for a living. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.040 It's so true and such great advice that you give 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.920 about how it trickles down later not to worry about it. 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.440 It's almost like a yeah, well, I mean, people want 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.479 to do it as they're living, because they want to 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.160 just wake up every day and write songs and get 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.880 paid enough to live. And that's more rare right now, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.560 because it's just a different time in the music business, 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.120 and there's it's sort of like the music business moved 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.120 into a new house, but the plumbing from the old 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.200 house is all that the songwriterer's got and they're all 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.800 stuck in the basement. That's kind of what's happening. But 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.600 that's not forever, you know. And what I tell young 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.680 writers who go, well, what's the point of writing? The 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.200 point of writing is your body of work. You're twenty something, now, 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.719 get going start writing your songs right your whole life. 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:35.520 So when you're in your seventies, you've covered that cave 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.760 wall with what you experienced. If somebody comes in and 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.560 sees your cave wall two thousand years after you died, 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.960 they're going to know how you felt. And that's very valuable. 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.480 It's valuable to you first and foremost, and it's valuable 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.279 to anyone who comes in contact with what your expression 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.680 is because anybody can participate in this amazing, magical thing, 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.600 this gift that we have. Creativity is not something you have. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.960 There are not people that are more creative than other people. 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.400 There's no such thing as that creativity is something you're in. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:11.920 It's like saying I am oxygen. No, I'm breathing oxygen. 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.240 I'm using oxygen. Oxygen is keeping me alive. Creativity is 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.880 like that, creativity is all around us. It's this sort 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:26.480 of collective wisdom of thought and energy and shifts and whether. 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:33.400 I mean, there's so much information in opening to getting comfortable. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:34.160 Not knowing what you're doing. 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.800 When you're writing or painting or whatever creative thing you're doing, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.680 you're entering into a place of what's next. I don't know, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.040 sounds like maybe this, oh, or it could be that, 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.040 And then the song will form itself. It will come 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.000 to you, it will say here's what I am. Figure 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.840 me out. And that's such an exciting journey to take, 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.640 and I take it every time I write a song. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.080 And when I've written the songs that have healed me. 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.280 Like after my first Tusban died in nineteen ninety four, 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:06.240 I wrote a whole album of songs about loss, but 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.280 probably the big song from that collection of Sand and Water, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.160 And it's a song you know, that I wrote to 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.920 get myself through the feeling of what do I do next. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:16.840 I didn't write it to save the world. 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.119 I didn't write it for the woman who would write 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.160 to me twenty years later and say, I just heard 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.560 this song I lost my husband or i'd lost my child, 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.640 and it's just helped me cry. You know, all the 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.680 people who benefited from that song, I'm so grateful for. 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.800 But I wrote it for one hundred percent selfish reasons, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.760 which I always want my writers. I'm like, right, for 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:40.319 selfish reasons, because you're healing yourself. It's like it's kind 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.560 of like put the oxygen mask on yourself before you 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.760 try to help somebody else, because you need to work 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.760 through that yourself and in the working through it. And 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.120 as we created, we create things from all of the 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:53.280 emotions of life. 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.000 We put these little pieces of. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.079 Art that are medicinal out into the world and they 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.360 go off and they get fat, and we have no 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.520 control over it and it's none of our business really, 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:05.079 but I'm grateful for it. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.079 Well, you boy, that was a long answer something No. 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.319 I mean, I was going to say, podcast can end now. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:15.240 I mean, that's we're going to drop the mic. But 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.800 you mentioned the road kind of builds itself in front 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.160 of you if you make it for you, and you 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:26.040 talk about the medicinal healing powers, and of course your 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:30.679 song continues to inspire sand and water in international audiences. 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.800 Can you share the story of the song of how 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.840 you are moved by I'm sorry, Can you share with 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.560 us how you were moved by the impact of that song, 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.280 because it was pretty massive it still is, yeah, I mean, 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:45.720 even the way that it came about. 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.360 My first husband had when he was first diagnosed, he 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.520 was given six weeks to live, and our son was 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:53.199 about about twelve years old, and it was. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:54.960 Just crushing, you know. 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.200 And he decided pretty early on that he was not 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.800 going to let somebody put a cell by on his head. 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:02.480 That's the way he put so he just. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.719 Said, give me what you got, the strongest stuff you got, 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:10.400 and he was able to tolerate pretty hefty chemotherapy and 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:14.200 got well enough to actually get a Bomera transplant, which 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.840 you know, if he had been able to sustain not 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:19.719 having the cancer come back a little bit longer, it 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.880 would have given him another five or ten years. He 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:25.520 had a very rare form of lymphoma, but it wasn't 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:26.959 meant to be, and he did have the bow Mara 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.200 transplant and then it came back within three months. So 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:31.720 the second time he had six weeks to live, he 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:33.800 literally had six you know, like they said, Okay, but 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:38.280 this time it's more than likely. So in that transition 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:43.040 he went through towards trying to live and working so 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.480 hard to try to live, to learning to die. I mean, 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.640 he shared that with so many friends, and so much 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:53.200 richness of life was all swirling around us during that time, 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.200 even though it was also very heartbreaking. And I just 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.559 remember after he passed. I mean, one of our dear 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.960 friends was Rodney Crowell, a great singer, a great songwriter, 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.600 a producer, and he, you know, he and Ernest evidently 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:08.600 had a little chat where they you know, I think 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.079 Ernest said something like, hey, listen, she's gonna put the 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.160 guitar in the closet because she's gonna think she can't 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:17.200 be a single mom and a songwriter, touring artist. So 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:18.920 just give her about a month and just call her 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.800 up and just go over there and tell her you're 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.360 coming over to write a song. And I promise you 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:28.440 her her ego will outweigh her grief. And it worked 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.600 perfectly because I was like, oh my god, Rodney's coming over, 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.720 and I got got my guitar out and I just 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.520 I better get something started, you know, because he was 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:37.360 one of my heroes. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.319 Did you know that he had told him that beforehand? No, 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:41.360 I didn't know that. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:43.400 I just knew that he called me up out of 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.000 the blue and said, Hey, I'm gonna come over and 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.080 let's let's get together. And right I was like, so 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.720 I had this thing float out of me like pretty 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:57.960 much perfectly written, although I recorded it kind of and 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.640 just bloom, you know, in twenty and when he came over, 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.079 I thought, it's not finished. In fact, I don't even 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.240 know what it's talking about. And it had this line 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.200 in it that said solid stone is just sand and 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.040 water and a million years gone by, which I didn't 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.679 think made any sense at all, goosebumps, and I just 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.200 but it was like I was like going right over 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.040 my head I wrote it down, but I didn't know 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.760 what it meant. And I remember playing him the song, thinking, well, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.360 you know, we can work on it. It's not really finished, 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:27.520 and he's like, just play it for me, and I 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.520 played it for me. He goes, that's finished, and don't 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.080 touch it like that. You may not touch that. That's 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.840 perfect and I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure it makes 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.439 any sense, and he goes, no, you will find out. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.679 You had two weeks from now, you're gonna you're going 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.000 to suddenly realize what that line means. Just trust me, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.319 and so I and it did take me about a 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.079 week to go, wait, that's a really that line is 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.320 about transformation, you know. And in fact, on the album 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.960 cover there's insight in the insert I'm standing in front 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.400 of a boulder that's just massive, and grief is like 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:00.120 this boulder that's set in front of you, and the 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.360 universe is telling you you can't go over it, you 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.480 can't go around it, you can't go under it. You 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.160 have to go right through the middle of it. And 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.200 you're like, how am I supposed to do that? 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:08.760 You know? 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:10.800 And the only way you could do it is if 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.079 it were to dissolve back into sand and water. Well, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.360 when I wrote that song, I didn't have any inkling 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.240 of what that was saying. And so I trust that 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:24.160 there's a collaboration going on that's beyond the wisdom that. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.199 I have in the moment that I'm writing something down. 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.240 And so often I will. 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.360 Write a song not even realizing that I'm writing it 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.800 for something that's going to happen in the future. It's 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.959 happened so many times that I totally trust that. When 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.440 I'm writing something and I'm just following it kind of blindly, 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.360 like I wonder why that word popped into my head, 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.120 I write it all down because there's something bigger than 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:50.320 me that I can draw from that teaches me as 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.400 I write the song, and that's to me, the most 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.000 healing part of it for me. Besides having people tell 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.480 me that it helped them. That's very healing for. 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:58.640 Me too, I bet. 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.360 And you know, a statistic I happen to read not 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.520 long ago said that only one percent of all of 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.600 us actually write down our goals. 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.160 Yeah, so I can't even imagine. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.160 If you write down your goals and then they say 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.800 if you write them down, then they're meant to happen. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.320 They will, They may not happen right away. And it's 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:22.240 the same thing with writing songs, which are medicinal. I 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.960 have to know, do you know what it is about music? 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.840 Is it the words? Is it the vibration? Is it 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:32.000 the sound? Have you figured out what exactly it is 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.680 that is so healing for us? 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.800 That's a really great question because people think, oh, it's 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.960 the lyrics that makes it that made me cry, or 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.680 it's the melody that made me cry, And I think 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.600 it can be both or either. But I think the 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:48.080 most powerful music and the most healing music combines the two. 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.760 And I you know, when I teach songwriting, I often 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.680 one of the exercises that I give my students is 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.160 to go to the grocery store or go whenever you're 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.800 out and about. You know, your job is to put 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.920 your antenna up and listen to other people talking and 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:05.760 listen to what's happening around you. 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.840 Listen to this the melody of speech. 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:14.560 So people don't realize that what melody you put on 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:16.240 the words changes the meaning. 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.840 So if I say what time are you coming over? 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.000 That d d dada, that's very staccato, and it's got 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.000 an insistence, and it's impatient and It's like I told 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:26.600 you this three times and now I'm gonna ask you 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.440 one more time. There's a whole movie in the melody 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.400 of what time are you coming over? Right, there's a 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.760 whole movie and how I said it, not just what 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.200 I said. That's why texting can be so disastrous because 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.920 you're you're writing, and nobody knows the melody of what 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.160 you're saying or the tone of the tone. Right, Well, 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:45.920 the melody and the tone to me are the same thing. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.360 But if you say what time are you coming over? 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.040 That da da D D D. So that melody where 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.640 you go you coming over? That's like come on over baby, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.960 you know. So there's a whole other movie. So how 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.440 oh you use the melody and the words together is 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.640 what really propels Now in the Sand and Water song, 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.400 there was this this song organized itself. I just kind 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.400 of like Waylon Jennings used to say, I didn't write it. 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.880 I just wrote it down. It just went push right 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:19.240 through me. And when you go through tremendous trauma or 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:24.440 you know, deep sadness, you're much more open to this, 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.920 to you know, to the access to this creative flow, 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.920 this river that's winding around us all the time that 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:33.840 we can tap into. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.600 And you know, the melody was like. 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.200 All alone, no, no, no, no, all alone. 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.320 I sat and cried all alone. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.120 And it has this repetition. It's almost like, you know, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.400 if you ever go to a great massage therapist, they 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.080 don't just crunch into the inner part of your shoulder. 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.760 They start lightly and then they go a little deeper. 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.520 Then they go a little deeper, and so that even 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:02.040 the melody of that song. I watch audiences where there's 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.800 always a couple of tough customers, you know, that are 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:07.600 just like not going to cry, and then you get 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.280 to this point and then they they then they cry, 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.280 you know, and it's it's fascinating because the song has 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.840 a healing quality that organize itself. I don't claim having 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.600 figured it out. I just notice it on the back end, 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.360 like looking back, going wow, that's amazing. 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.200 Well, there's all these sayings that you don't really realize 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.040 until you get older. Hindsight is always twenty twenty and 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.359 you can go back and look and you know there's 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.000 a pattern. And so when you speak, you speak with 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.639 conviction and knowledge because you had that history, which you 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.000 know it's always like this little light Oh now, I 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.800 know why they say that, or why that song said that, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:45.640 or you. 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.200 Know, I did a thing I don't know. 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:49.760 I don't know if you've ever listened to The Moth, 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.760 which is a radio show that tells story, people tell 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:53.920 stories from all over the world. 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.400 It's amazing. So I that down on the Moth. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.680 If you put my name in, you'll see a couple 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.000 of you'll see two times that I've done The Moth. 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.240 One where I was talking about a song called seven 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.560 Shades of Blue, which was written at the same time 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.840 as the Sand and Water song. And it's a twelve 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.000 minute story I can't tell you now, but it's a 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.600 really fascinating story about how I wrote half of it, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.080 you know, way ahead of time, before my husband was 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.000 even diagnosed. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:20.960 But it's all about going through this loss. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.240 And he loved this song and he tried to get 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:25.760 me to finish it, and I finished it the. 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.760 Last week of his life. You know. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.040 He made me write the third verse, you know, from 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.600 his death pacing where's my song? You know, and I'm like, geez, 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.919 I've been a little busy, like my you know, my 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.320 life's been a little crazy. Anyway, it's a whole story 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.479 about it, and it's a really interesting perspective. It's kind 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.919 of similar to what we're talking about. But you know, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.320 I've learned to trust that songs are are kind of 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.119 glimpses into the future. Sometimes when I'm writing something and 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.040 I just feel compelled to put a certain kind of 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.440 line in there, but I'm not sure why. I don't 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.520 know why I wanted to rhyme with that word, and 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.320 I get into kind of a very loose state of 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.280 of openness and I write down all the weird things 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.280 that come through. Like if I'm writing with somebody, they go, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.000 why are you writing that now? And that's not right, 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:09.320 and I'm like, I know, but it's on the way 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.080 to something. It's got a thing, you know. And inact, 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.679 a great example of that is I was writing This Kiss, 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.520 which was a huge hit for Faith Hill put myself 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.080 through college. I wrote that with Annie Roboff and Robin Lerner, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.760 and we've written the first verse and this kind of 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.040 channel thing and then this great chorus, and we had 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.399 this this kiss, this kiss, and then we had to 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.640 write the second verse. And if you've written a really 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.960 good song, it satisfies right at the end of the 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.639 first chorus, like you've got the whole songs really in 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.159