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Speaker 1: Music Saved Me.

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Speaker 2: I trust that there's a collaboration going on that's beyond

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Speaker 2: the wisdom that I have in.

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Speaker 1: The moment that I'm writing something down.

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Speaker 2: And so often I will write a song not even

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Speaker 2: realizing that I'm writing it for something that's going to

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Speaker 2: happen in the future. It's happened so many times that

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Speaker 2: I totally trust that when I'm writing something and I'm

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Speaker 2: just following it kind of blindly, like I wonder why

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Speaker 2: that word popped into my head, I write it all

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Speaker 2: down because there's something bigger than me that I can

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Speaker 2: draw from.

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Speaker 3: I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Save Me Podcast,

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Speaker 3: the show where we highlight one of the greatest joys imaginable,

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Speaker 3: the healing power of music. I talk with musicians of

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Speaker 3: all different types who all talk about their personal stories

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Speaker 3: and about their experience with the healing power of music.

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Speaker 3: And on this episode, I get to talk to a

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Speaker 3: musician who truly understands how music saves us. Beth Nielsen

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Speaker 3: Chapman is a musician, a singer songwriter who has truly

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Speaker 3: embraced musical diversity. Welcome Beth Nielsen Chapman to Music Saved Me.

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Speaker 3: Your story so epitomizes what Music Saved Me podcast is

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Speaker 3: all about. And we're so grateful to have you with

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Speaker 3: us today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. And I love the title

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Speaker 2: of your podcast. It got me right away. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's what I preach.

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Speaker 3: We got you when we reeled you in. It took

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Speaker 3: a little while, but we got you here. I'm so grateful.

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Speaker 3: My first question to you is when was the first

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Speaker 3: moment in your life when you knew that music moved

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Speaker 3: you and it would be your life calling.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, there's probably several of those, but I remember

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Speaker 2: being kind of my pilot light came on around songs

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Speaker 2: when I was probably eleven or twelve, when I was

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Speaker 2: playing with a friend and I was over at her

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Speaker 2: house and in the kitchen radio I heard Penny Lane

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Speaker 2: for the first time, and it was shocking to me

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Speaker 2: and just we were jumping on the bed and I

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Speaker 2: was like, and I like got got off the bed

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Speaker 2: and went wandering into the kitchen, stood in front of

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Speaker 2: the radio and just was like mesmerized by that joy,

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Speaker 2: you know, Benny Lane, you know, just and then I

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Speaker 2: mean before that, I had been listening to my parents,

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Speaker 2: you know, records, and I remember when Tijuana Brass and

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Speaker 2: The Lonely Bowl came out and I was like five

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Speaker 2: years old, I was like, oh, you know, these like

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Speaker 2: records that I would just get in my head and

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Speaker 2: I'd go around singing them. So I wasn't really thinking, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do this for a living until way

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Speaker 2: later than that. But I always felt just ignited by music.

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Speaker 2: And as I got older, and you know, and I

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Speaker 2: was a teenager and I started listening to all the

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Speaker 2: singer songwriters at the seventies, and you know, it just

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Speaker 2: became a complete and total necessary part.

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Speaker 1: Of life to get through the stuff. From a very

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Speaker 1: early age.

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Speaker 3: I will have to say this, and you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: people might disagree, but I think the seventies were like

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Speaker 3: the pinnacle of music. Artists were together in a studio

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Speaker 3: looking at each other, and yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty amazing.

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Speaker 3: Do you recall us an experience or a concert experience

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Speaker 3: that first connected you with, like maybe your favorite artist.

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Speaker 2: You know, I didn't go to tons of concerts for

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Speaker 2: some reason. I remember seeing Joni Mitchell, but I was

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Speaker 2: up in the nosebleed seats and you know, could barely

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Speaker 2: see her and it was just all echo up there.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, as I came into the music business more.

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Speaker 2: I mean I played in all kinds of different bands

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Speaker 2: and stuff and just you know, it was just eating,

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Speaker 2: drinking and sleeping music twenty four to seven. I signed

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Speaker 2: my first publishing and record deal when I was fifteen,

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Speaker 2: and my dad had to co sign it. We were

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Speaker 2: living in Alabama. My dad was in the Air Force,

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Speaker 2: so we moved around all through my childhood, but we'd

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Speaker 2: ended up in Alabama and I remember begging him, Oh,

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Speaker 2: this guy has a studio and he's going to get

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Speaker 2: me a record deal. And my dad was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you gotta finish high school first. I'm like, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, so he got a lawyer, but

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Speaker 2: he got a cattle lawyer, and you know, the guy

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Speaker 2: just did you know he read the thing, was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it looks like she doesn't have to pay any money,

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Speaker 2: So I guess it's okay, you know, like I should

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Speaker 2: have had, Like I always tell people, get a music

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Speaker 2: attorney because it's totally different.

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Speaker 1: So, you know.

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Speaker 2: But my first inkling of it being valuable was a

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Speaker 2: couple of years later when that contract got sold to

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Speaker 2: a real publishing company in Nashville, EMI and.

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Speaker 1: They paid him, like, you know.

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Speaker 2: Twelve fifteen thousand dollars for my fifty songs. They paid

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Speaker 2: the guy that had signed me to the slave contract

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Speaker 2: that didn't That wasn't fair. And I just went, Wow,

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Speaker 2: this stuff is really valuable. And I still to this day,

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Speaker 2: you know, when I'm talking to young songwriters who are

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Speaker 2: struggling because you know, if you're just a songwriter, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of hard to make a living right now, and

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Speaker 2: I say, but don't worry. Your work is generating way

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Speaker 2: more than what the trickle down that we're getting. It's

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Speaker 2: just a temporary glitch in the system that'll get sorted

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Speaker 2: out later. But know that the value of your work

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Speaker 2: is that you're creating something that moves people and shifts

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Speaker 2: their paradigm. And if they need to cry sometimes it'll

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Speaker 2: help them cry. If they need to laugh, it'll help

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Speaker 2: them laugh. It's really powerful stuff. Songs are really powerful

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Speaker 2: little pieces of medicine that are out in the world

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Speaker 2: that are healing people all day long, you know, whether

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Speaker 2: it's making you just feel better or literally getting those

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Speaker 2: tears to come to the surface that are stuck, you know,

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Speaker 2: And I'm just amazed by it every day, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm amazed by it, and I'm so grateful that I

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Speaker 2: get to do it, you know, for a living.

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Speaker 3: It's so true and such great advice that you give

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Speaker 3: about how it trickles down later not to worry about it.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like a yeah, well, I mean, people want

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Speaker 2: to do it as they're living, because they want to

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Speaker 2: just wake up every day and write songs and get

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Speaker 2: paid enough to live. And that's more rare right now,

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Speaker 2: because it's just a different time in the music business,

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Speaker 2: and there's it's sort of like the music business moved

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Speaker 2: into a new house, but the plumbing from the old

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Speaker 2: house is all that the songwriterer's got and they're all

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Speaker 2: stuck in the basement. That's kind of what's happening. But

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Speaker 2: that's not forever, you know. And what I tell young

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Speaker 2: writers who go, well, what's the point of writing? The

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Speaker 2: point of writing is your body of work. You're twenty something, now,

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Speaker 2: get going start writing your songs right your whole life.

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Speaker 2: So when you're in your seventies, you've covered that cave

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Speaker 2: wall with what you experienced. If somebody comes in and

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Speaker 2: sees your cave wall two thousand years after you died,

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Speaker 2: they're going to know how you felt. And that's very valuable.

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Speaker 2: It's valuable to you first and foremost, and it's valuable

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Speaker 2: to anyone who comes in contact with what your expression

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Speaker 2: is because anybody can participate in this amazing, magical thing,

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Speaker 2: this gift that we have. Creativity is not something you have.

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Speaker 2: There are not people that are more creative than other people.

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Speaker 2: There's no such thing as that creativity is something you're in.

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Speaker 2: It's like saying I am oxygen. No, I'm breathing oxygen.

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Speaker 2: I'm using oxygen. Oxygen is keeping me alive. Creativity is

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Speaker 2: like that, creativity is all around us. It's this sort

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Speaker 2: of collective wisdom of thought and energy and shifts and whether.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much information in opening to getting comfortable.

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Speaker 1: Not knowing what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: When you're writing or painting or whatever creative thing you're doing,

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Speaker 2: you're entering into a place of what's next. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: sounds like maybe this, oh, or it could be that,

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Speaker 2: And then the song will form itself. It will come

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Speaker 2: to you, it will say here's what I am. Figure

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Speaker 2: me out. And that's such an exciting journey to take,

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Speaker 2: and I take it every time I write a song.

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Speaker 2: And when I've written the songs that have healed me.

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Speaker 2: Like after my first Tusban died in nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 2: I wrote a whole album of songs about loss, but

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Speaker 2: probably the big song from that collection of Sand and Water,

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Speaker 2: And it's a song you know, that I wrote to

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Speaker 2: get myself through the feeling of what do I do next.

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Speaker 1: I didn't write it to save the world.

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Speaker 2: I didn't write it for the woman who would write

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Speaker 2: to me twenty years later and say, I just heard

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Speaker 2: this song I lost my husband or i'd lost my child,

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Speaker 2: and it's just helped me cry. You know, all the

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Speaker 2: people who benefited from that song, I'm so grateful for.

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Speaker 2: But I wrote it for one hundred percent selfish reasons,

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Speaker 2: which I always want my writers. I'm like, right, for

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Speaker 2: selfish reasons, because you're healing yourself. It's like it's kind

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Speaker 2: of like put the oxygen mask on yourself before you

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Speaker 2: try to help somebody else, because you need to work

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Speaker 2: through that yourself and in the working through it. And

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Speaker 2: as we created, we create things from all of the

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Speaker 2: emotions of life.

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Speaker 1: We put these little pieces of.

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Speaker 2: Art that are medicinal out into the world and they

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Speaker 2: go off and they get fat, and we have no

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Speaker 2: control over it and it's none of our business really,

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Speaker 2: but I'm grateful for it.

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Speaker 3: Well, you boy, that was a long answer something No.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I was going to say, podcast can end now.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's we're going to drop the mic. But

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Speaker 3: you mentioned the road kind of builds itself in front

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Speaker 3: of you if you make it for you, and you

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Speaker 3: talk about the medicinal healing powers, and of course your

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Speaker 3: song continues to inspire sand and water in international audiences.

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Speaker 3: Can you share the story of the song of how

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Speaker 3: you are moved by I'm sorry, Can you share with

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Speaker 3: us how you were moved by the impact of that song,

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Speaker 3: because it was pretty massive it still is, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 3: even the way that it came about.

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Speaker 2: My first husband had when he was first diagnosed, he

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Speaker 2: was given six weeks to live, and our son was

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Speaker 2: about about twelve years old, and it was.

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Speaker 1: Just crushing, you know.

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Speaker 2: And he decided pretty early on that he was not

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Speaker 2: going to let somebody put a cell by on his head.

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Speaker 1: That's the way he put so he just.

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Speaker 2: Said, give me what you got, the strongest stuff you got,

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Speaker 2: and he was able to tolerate pretty hefty chemotherapy and

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Speaker 2: got well enough to actually get a Bomera transplant, which

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Speaker 2: you know, if he had been able to sustain not

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Speaker 2: having the cancer come back a little bit longer, it

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Speaker 2: would have given him another five or ten years. He

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Speaker 2: had a very rare form of lymphoma, but it wasn't

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Speaker 2: meant to be, and he did have the bow Mara

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Speaker 2: transplant and then it came back within three months. So

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Speaker 2: the second time he had six weeks to live, he

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Speaker 2: literally had six you know, like they said, Okay, but

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Speaker 2: this time it's more than likely. So in that transition

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Speaker 2: he went through towards trying to live and working so

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Speaker 2: hard to try to live, to learning to die. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he shared that with so many friends, and so much

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Speaker 2: richness of life was all swirling around us during that time,

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Speaker 2: even though it was also very heartbreaking. And I just

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Speaker 2: remember after he passed. I mean, one of our dear

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Speaker 2: friends was Rodney Crowell, a great singer, a great songwriter,

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Speaker 2: a producer, and he, you know, he and Ernest evidently

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Speaker 2: had a little chat where they you know, I think

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Speaker 2: Ernest said something like, hey, listen, she's gonna put the

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Speaker 2: guitar in the closet because she's gonna think she can't

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Speaker 2: be a single mom and a songwriter, touring artist. So

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Speaker 2: just give her about a month and just call her

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Speaker 2: up and just go over there and tell her you're

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Speaker 2: coming over to write a song. And I promise you

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Speaker 2: her her ego will outweigh her grief. And it worked

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Speaker 2: perfectly because I was like, oh my god, Rodney's coming over,

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Speaker 2: and I got got my guitar out and I just

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Speaker 2: I better get something started, you know, because he was

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Speaker 2: one of my heroes.

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Speaker 1: Did you know that he had told him that beforehand? No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: I just knew that he called me up out of

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Speaker 2: the blue and said, Hey, I'm gonna come over and

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Speaker 2: let's let's get together. And right I was like, so

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Speaker 2: I had this thing float out of me like pretty

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Speaker 2: much perfectly written, although I recorded it kind of and

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Speaker 2: just bloom, you know, in twenty and when he came over,

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Speaker 2: I thought, it's not finished. In fact, I don't even

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Speaker 2: know what it's talking about. And it had this line

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Speaker 2: in it that said solid stone is just sand and

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Speaker 2: water and a million years gone by, which I didn't

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Speaker 2: think made any sense at all, goosebumps, and I just

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Speaker 2: but it was like I was like going right over

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Speaker 2: my head I wrote it down, but I didn't know

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Speaker 2: what it meant. And I remember playing him the song, thinking, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, we can work on it. It's not really finished,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, just play it for me, and I

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Speaker 2: played it for me. He goes, that's finished, and don't

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Speaker 2: touch it like that. You may not touch that. That's

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Speaker 2: perfect and I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure it makes

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Speaker 2: any sense, and he goes, no, you will find out.

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Speaker 2: You had two weeks from now, you're gonna you're going

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Speaker 2: to suddenly realize what that line means. Just trust me,

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Speaker 2: and so I and it did take me about a

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Speaker 2: week to go, wait, that's a really that line is

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Speaker 2: about transformation, you know. And in fact, on the album

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Speaker 2: cover there's insight in the insert I'm standing in front

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Speaker 2: of a boulder that's just massive, and grief is like

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Speaker 2: this boulder that's set in front of you, and the

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Speaker 2: universe is telling you you can't go over it, you

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Speaker 2: can't go around it, you can't go under it. You

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Speaker 2: have to go right through the middle of it. And

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Speaker 2: you're like, how am I supposed to do that?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: And the only way you could do it is if

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Speaker 2: it were to dissolve back into sand and water. Well,

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Speaker 2: when I wrote that song, I didn't have any inkling

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Speaker 2: of what that was saying. And so I trust that

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Speaker 2: there's a collaboration going on that's beyond the wisdom that.

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Speaker 1: I have in the moment that I'm writing something down.

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Speaker 1: And so often I will.

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Speaker 2: Write a song not even realizing that I'm writing it

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Speaker 2: for something that's going to happen in the future. It's

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Speaker 2: happened so many times that I totally trust that. When

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Speaker 2: I'm writing something and I'm just following it kind of blindly,

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Speaker 2: like I wonder why that word popped into my head,

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Speaker 2: I write it all down because there's something bigger than

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Speaker 2: me that I can draw from that teaches me as

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Speaker 2: I write the song, and that's to me, the most

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Speaker 2: healing part of it for me. Besides having people tell

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Speaker 2: me that it helped them. That's very healing for.

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Speaker 1: Me too, I bet.

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Speaker 3: And you know, a statistic I happen to read not

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Speaker 3: long ago said that only one percent of all of

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Speaker 3: us actually write down our goals.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 3: If you write down your goals and then they say

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Speaker 3: if you write them down, then they're meant to happen.

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Speaker 3: They will, They may not happen right away. And it's

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Speaker 3: the same thing with writing songs, which are medicinal. I

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Speaker 3: have to know, do you know what it is about music?

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Speaker 3: Is it the words? Is it the vibration? Is it

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Speaker 3: the sound? Have you figured out what exactly it is

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Speaker 3: that is so healing for us?

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Speaker 2: That's a really great question because people think, oh, it's

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Speaker 2: the lyrics that makes it that made me cry, or

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Speaker 2: it's the melody that made me cry, And I think

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Speaker 2: it can be both or either. But I think the

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Speaker 2: most powerful music and the most healing music combines the two.

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Speaker 2: And I you know, when I teach songwriting, I often

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Speaker 2: one of the exercises that I give my students is

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Speaker 2: to go to the grocery store or go whenever you're

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Speaker 2: out and about. You know, your job is to put

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Speaker 2: your antenna up and listen to other people talking and

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Speaker 2: listen to what's happening around you.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this the melody of speech.

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Speaker 2: So people don't realize that what melody you put on

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Speaker 2: the words changes the meaning.

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Speaker 1: So if I say what time are you coming over?

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Speaker 2: That d d dada, that's very staccato, and it's got

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Speaker 2: an insistence, and it's impatient and It's like I told

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Speaker 2: you this three times and now I'm gonna ask you

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Speaker 2: one more time. There's a whole movie in the melody

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Speaker 2: of what time are you coming over? Right, there's a

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Speaker 2: whole movie and how I said it, not just what

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Speaker 2: I said. That's why texting can be so disastrous because

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Speaker 2: you're you're writing, and nobody knows the melody of what

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Speaker 2: you're saying or the tone of the tone. Right, Well,

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Speaker 2: the melody and the tone to me are the same thing.

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Speaker 2: But if you say what time are you coming over?

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Speaker 2: That da da D D D. So that melody where

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Speaker 2: you go you coming over? That's like come on over baby,

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Speaker 2: you know. So there's a whole other movie. So how

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Speaker 2: oh you use the melody and the words together is

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Speaker 2: what really propels Now in the Sand and Water song,

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Speaker 2: there was this this song organized itself. I just kind

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Speaker 2: of like Waylon Jennings used to say, I didn't write it.

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Speaker 2: I just wrote it down. It just went push right

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Speaker 2: through me. And when you go through tremendous trauma or

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Speaker 2: you know, deep sadness, you're much more open to this,

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Speaker 2: to you know, to the access to this creative flow,

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Speaker 2: this river that's winding around us all the time that

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Speaker 2: we can tap into.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the melody was like.

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Speaker 2: All alone, no, no, no, no, all alone.

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Speaker 1: I sat and cried all alone.

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Speaker 2: And it has this repetition. It's almost like, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you ever go to a great massage therapist, they

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Speaker 2: don't just crunch into the inner part of your shoulder.

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Speaker 2: They start lightly and then they go a little deeper.

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Speaker 2: Then they go a little deeper, and so that even

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Speaker 2: the melody of that song. I watch audiences where there's

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Speaker 2: always a couple of tough customers, you know, that are

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Speaker 2: just like not going to cry, and then you get

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Speaker 2: to this point and then they they then they cry,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it's it's fascinating because the song has

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Speaker 2: a healing quality that organize itself. I don't claim having

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Speaker 2: figured it out. I just notice it on the back end,

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Speaker 2: like looking back, going wow, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's all these sayings that you don't really realize

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Speaker 3: until you get older. Hindsight is always twenty twenty and

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Speaker 3: you can go back and look and you know there's

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Speaker 3: a pattern. And so when you speak, you speak with

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Speaker 3: conviction and knowledge because you had that history, which you

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Speaker 3: know it's always like this little light Oh now, I

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Speaker 3: know why they say that, or why that song said that,

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Speaker 3: or you.

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Speaker 1: Know, I did a thing I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever listened to The Moth,

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Speaker 2: which is a radio show that tells story, people tell

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Speaker 2: stories from all over the world.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. So I that down on the Moth.

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Speaker 2: If you put my name in, you'll see a couple

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Speaker 2: of you'll see two times that I've done The Moth.

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Speaker 2: One where I was talking about a song called seven

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Speaker 2: Shades of Blue, which was written at the same time

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Speaker 2: as the Sand and Water song. And it's a twelve

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Speaker 2: minute story I can't tell you now, but it's a

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Speaker 2: really fascinating story about how I wrote half of it,

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Speaker 2: you know, way ahead of time, before my husband was

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Speaker 2: even diagnosed.

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Speaker 1: But it's all about going through this loss.

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Speaker 2: And he loved this song and he tried to get

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Speaker 2: me to finish it, and I finished it the.

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Speaker 1: Last week of his life. You know.

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Speaker 2: He made me write the third verse, you know, from

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Speaker 2: his death pacing where's my song? You know, and I'm like, geez,

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Speaker 2: I've been a little busy, like my you know, my

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Speaker 2: life's been a little crazy. Anyway, it's a whole story

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Speaker 2: about it, and it's a really interesting perspective. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of similar to what we're talking about. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I've learned to trust that songs are are kind of

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Speaker 2: glimpses into the future. Sometimes when I'm writing something and

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Speaker 2: I just feel compelled to put a certain kind of

384
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Speaker 2: line in there, but I'm not sure why. I don't

385
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Speaker 2: know why I wanted to rhyme with that word, and

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Speaker 2: I get into kind of a very loose state of

387
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Speaker 2: of openness and I write down all the weird things

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Speaker 2: that come through. Like if I'm writing with somebody, they go,

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Speaker 2: why are you writing that now? And that's not right,

390
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Speaker 2: and I'm like, I know, but it's on the way

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Speaker 2: to something. It's got a thing, you know. And inact,

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Speaker 2: a great example of that is I was writing This Kiss,

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Speaker 2: which was a huge hit for Faith Hill put myself

394
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Speaker 2: through college. I wrote that with Annie Roboff and Robin Lerner,

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Speaker 2: and we've written the first verse and this kind of

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Speaker 2: channel thing and then this great chorus, and we had

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Speaker 2: this this kiss, this kiss, and then we had to

398
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Speaker 2: write the second verse. And if you've written a really

399
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 2: good song, it satisfies right at the end of the

400
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 2: first chorus, like you've got the whole songs really in

401
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,159
Speaker 2: the first half. Then you have to come up with

402
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Speaker 2: the second half and say something fresh, but it has

403
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Speaker 2: to relate to the first half, but it's got to

404
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Speaker 2: be different.

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Speaker 1: And we just couldn't get started. We were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't get the second verse.

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Speaker 2: What are we going to say? We don't want to

408
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Speaker 2: repeat the same thing. And then they were like, well,

409
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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. And then I say, well,

410
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Speaker 2: all I know to do is just start at the

411
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Speaker 2: beginning and just sing up to it and just see.

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Speaker 1: What flies out of our mouth. And we turned on

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Speaker 1: the tape recorder and we're like really.

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Speaker 2: Then we get all the way to the end and

415
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Speaker 2: we go this kiss, this kiss, unstoppable, this kiss, this kiss,

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Speaker 2: And then I went Cleopatra was a snowflake.

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Speaker 1: They were like, what I said, I know, it's not weird.

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra was a snowflake. That's crazy.

419
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Speaker 2: And they were like, ah, yeah, no, Cleopatra was not

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Speaker 2: a snowflake, and we're not putting that in our song.

421
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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, I know, I know, I know,

422
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Speaker 2: but there's a reason I blurted that out, because why

423
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,919
Speaker 2: would I say that. That's so random, you know, And

424
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Speaker 2: they were like, we're going to lunch, but what happened?

425
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Speaker 2: They're like, bye bye. They left me there for like

426
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Speaker 2: a half an hour and they came back. I was

427
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 2: still going Cleopatra had a snowflake. Cleopatra and Cleopatra and

428
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Speaker 2: the snowflake. I'm like, I couldn't make it work. And

429
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 2: Annie got right up in my face and she said

430
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Speaker 2: that we're not putting Disney characters in our song. And

431
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Speaker 2: I went, oh, wait, Disney, hold on, it's not Cleopatra.

432
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Speaker 2: She wasn't Disney. It's a Cinderella, and it's not a snowflake.

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00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: It's uh snow White. Cinderella said to snow White, how

434
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 2: does love get so off?

435
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: Course?

436
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 2: And that then we were blasting off and writing that

437
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 2: second verse, which is about Cinderella talking to snow White

438
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 2: and what is this love thing? It's just such a

439
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: pain and love. But you know, which just was so funny.

440
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 2: You know, it's Cleopatra. Cinderella said to snow White, how

441
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 2: does love get so off? Core?

442
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: So all I wanted was a white night with a good.

443
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 2: Heart, soft touch, fast horse, ride me off into the sunset,

444
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 2: baby up forever yours. I mean, I love that second

445
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 2: verse if somebody said, how did you come up with that?

446
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 1: I said, how I came up with that?

447
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 2: I got a big clue from them, from the ether

448
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 2: of the other side of creative wisdom. You know, it's

449
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 2: waiting to write songs through us. But you have to

450
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 2: be able to handle the Cleopatra was a snowflake weird

451
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: part and go.

452
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,959
Speaker 3: Wow, you know, and not be upset when someone may

453
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 3: not love the idea to be strong in your conviction

454
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 3: and listen to your instinct.

455
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I was about to cave.

456
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 2: I mean, not every one of those crazy lines ends

457
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: up being a thing. But what's really weird is one

458
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: of my students recently sent me a link on Amazon

459
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: and there were tons of snowflakes with Cleopatra on them.

460
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: I was like, what around that time?

461
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 2: No, just now, it's like there's like all these like

462
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 2: Christmas to ornaments with Cleopatra.

463
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 1: Anyway by smelling hit coming, I know it's too crazy.

464
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe I can justify that line, but the songs,

465
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: but the song even like that, you know a song

466
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 2: that the power of that song is the joy of

467
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: getting kissed correctly, I mean that just as a specific

468
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: what are we going to write about you know, what

469
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 2: does it feel like to get kissed? Right?

470
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: Which is the thing? Yes, it is little pieces.

471
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: Of being a human is to me what songs are about,

472
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: from loss to joy to craziness, and you know it's

473
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 2: they're all all healing.

474
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 3: We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved

475
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 3: Me Podcast. And by the way, if you like this podcast,

476
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 3: you are going to love our companion podcast called Taken

477
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 3: a Walk. It's hosted by my dear friend buzz Night

478
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: and you can find it wherever you get your podcasts.

479
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast, the podcast

480
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 3: where we discuss the healing powers of music with some

481
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 3: of the biggest names in music, as well as up

482
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 3: and comers. Being a cancer survivor yourself losing your first

483
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 3: husband cancer and having these moments that you still persevered

484
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: through beyond persevered. Can you share how the experience impacted

485
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 3: your life in songwriting? How are you able to get

486
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 3: through such difficult personal times?

487
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 2: Well, I mean giving, you know, writing my way through it? Literally,

488
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes I wouldn't. I mean when Ernest finally

489
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: passed away, I was immediately into like I have to

490
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: be a single mom, I have to take care of

491
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: my son.

492
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: I can't just fall apart and cry, so I didn't

493
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: cry for like a year, and when.

494
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: I went into the studio to start recording, I started

495
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: falling apart, which made it very hard to record because

496
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, so grief has its own timeline.

497
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: We really can't tell it when it's going to hit us,

498
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: you know. And going through like six years after Ernest died,

499
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 2: I ended up making a record called Deeper Still. In

500
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: the last day of mixing, literally I found out I

501
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: had stage two breast cancer. What was amazing is that

502
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 2: every song on that album sounded as if I wrote

503
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 2: it after I went through breast cancer. There were songs

504
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 2: about resilience and staying positive and like so many songs

505
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: it was crazy, but one song in particular, and first

506
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: of all, I was terrified for my son, who was

507
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: now going off to college, and I had to tell

508
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: him before he went to college that when you see

509
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: me at Thanksgiving, I'm not going to have any hair,

510
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: and then trying to convince him that I'm going to

511
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: be okay, you know, But I didn't know I was

512
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: going to be okay. I was terrified that I wasn't

513
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 2: going to be okay. And he was so amazing. He

514
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 2: was like I remember telling him and I was sitting

515
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: on the couch and I was just like, you know,

516
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: I just don't want to have this conversation.

517
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: But he knew something was up. He could tell something

518
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: was going on.

519
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 2: And I remember him pulling me and putting my head

520
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 2: on his show, on his chest and saying, You're going

521
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: to be okay, Mom, You're going to be okay. And

522
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: I just like, wow, you know, and I was okay,

523
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: and he and actually seeing me get well and I

524
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: was going through that journey together helped us both. Heal

525
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: a lot through through the grief of losing his dad.

526
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: But one of the songs I wrote two years before

527
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: that was called Every December Sky, and I remember when

528
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: I was writing it, thinking, is this kind of an

529
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: additional song about losing my husband? Because it kind of

530
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 2: felt like I could be singing about that, but I

531
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 2: wasn't sure. I just loved the song and song is

532
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: about resilience. And I was sitting on the couch in

533
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: the wintertime, is that all the leaves had come off

534
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: the trees and all my hair had fallen out kind

535
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: of simultaneously, and I was looking out the window and

536
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 2: it was a freezing day and I was really at

537
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: a low point and I started just singing the song

538
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: in my head, like it came on like a radio station.

539
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: And it's a song that says, every December sky must

540
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: lose its faith and leaves and dream of the spring

541
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: inside the trees, How heavy the empty heart, how light

542
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: the heart that's full. Sometimes I have to trust what

543
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: I can't know. And I realized, wait, that's like I

544
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: needed to hear that, you know, And it's about believing

545
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: that you're going to get through this scary time and

546
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: knowing there's spring inside the trees and it's going to

547
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: be spring again and you're going to be okay. And

548
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: it gave me such a sense of connection and you know,

549
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 2: I mean, there's no way that you can get go

550
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: through cancer and not at some point feel like God

551
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: has abandoned me. I mean, I had that feeling come

552
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: and go, you know, and I'd pray and I'd like, oh,

553
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: but I felt abandoned, like my own body abandoned, Like

554
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: why didn't I Why did my body malfunction? You know?

555
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: And all that and that song really centered me back

556
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: into a sense of calmness and assurance that I was

557
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 2: being taken care of that no matter what happened, I

558
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: was going to be taking care of everybody I loved

559
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 2: was going to be okay. And I just calmed me down,

560
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: you know. And the power of that song to me

561
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: is very personal. But I know that when I play

562
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 2: that song, it's like one that I get requests for

563
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: a lot, because people just identify with that sense of

564
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: you know, as freezing as it is, Bazzes right now,

565
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's always a place where hope is

566
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: residing and growing and blooming again.

567
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: You were writing your own medicine.

568
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, your own worst script was literally I was literally

569
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: I mean on yourself, forgive me answer.

570
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I didn't you know the fact that I

571
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: wrote it for myself.

572
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: And I knew that's exactly what had happened was kind

573
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: of like a reassurance that something bigger than myself was was.

574
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: Keeping track and watching over me, you know. And was

575
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: that from your history of music?

576
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: And John, I mean just I mean, I've done it

577
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 2: over and over again, but I didn't realize I was

578
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 2: doing it until I got to that point. Like I

579
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: did it with several of the songs on the Sand

580
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: and Water album, which I wrote prior to my husband

581
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 2: even finding out he had cancer. I was already writing

582
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: half of that album. And you know, so I've just

583
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: learned to understand that there's a very magical mystery thing

584
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: going on here, and we are, you know, some of

585
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: us are more aware of it than others. But even

586
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: if you're not aware of it, it's still doing its magic.

587
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: It's just magical, you know. And another amazing, amazing thing

588
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: because I've loved teaching and I've always taught people anybody

589
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: can can access this thing with a little bit of

590
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: help and some tricks that I like to teach, you know,

591
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: how to show up and how to experience this creative flow.

592
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: And I thought, you know, all of a sudden, like

593
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine, for about three months, I

594
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: stopped being able to write, and I just couldn't figure out.

595
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: What was going on.

596
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: I would sit down and I'd have melodies. I could

597
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: get melodies, but I couldn't I couldn't get the lyrics

598
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: to come. And I've never had that problem, and I

599
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: was absolutely depressed.

600
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: At a certain point.

601
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: I was thinking, gosh, you know, maybe there is a

602
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: muse and it just wanders off and you don't have

603
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: it anymore. And I've been selling this bill of goods

604
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: to people all these years. I was just having amused

605
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: and now I don't, and you know, I just was

606
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: so perplexing. And I remember waking up one morning during

607
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: that time with this really weird kind of like a

608
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: Tibetan bowl in my head, you know, glonging couldn't hear

609
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: pitch go do a big show on the weekend, and

610
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: I just call I called my on cologist because I

611
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: didn't even know who to call. I'm like, I've got

612
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: this weird thing. And he, you know, turned me over

613
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: to a neurologist and they did an MRI and I

614
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: remember him coming around the corner and saying, so, have

615
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: you had.

616
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: Any trouble with language?

617
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, I haven't been able to write

618
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: lyrics for about four months, which has been really upsetting,

619
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: you know. And he goes, oh, yeah, you wouldn't be

620
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: able to write lyrics with this thing. I'm like, what thing?

621
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: And he goes, will you have a brain tumor? I'm like, no,

622
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: I have a brain tumor. That's not possible because I

623
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 2: have My husband died a cancer and then I had cancer,

624
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: so kind of done. I'm not really up for anything.

625
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: You know, I shouldn't have anything like a brain tumor

626
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: right now, you know.

627
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute.

628
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 2: And he's like, and it's pressing against the left frontal lobe,

629
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: which is your language center.

630
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: So we're kind of surprised you can talk.

631
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 2: And I'm like really, he goes, yeah, it's going to

632
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: have to come out, and it would definitely encroach on

633
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: your ability to write lyrics.

634
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: I was so relieved that there was a reason that

635
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this is great. He goes,

636
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: did you hear the part about where you have a braindommer? Yeah,

637
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: but it's so great, it's like amazing.

638
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: And I remember just thinking, Okay, I'm going to get

639
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: on the other side of this thing, and I'm not

640
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: going to have to never write a song again. And

641
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: I mean that was one of the big benefits of it.

642
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: Although it was terrifying, but everything went great. It was

643
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: early enough, and anyway, as I got back into the

644
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: world coming through this anesthesion, I'm having this weird dreamy

645
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: vision of these camels going over sand dunes and I'm

646
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: thinking what and I realized they're not camels, they're actually syllables.

647
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: And then I realized, wait, that's the third verse of

648
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: the song I've been trying to finish for like four

649
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: months that I've been sitting there and banging my head

650
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 2: into nothing, you know.

651
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: And my mom goes, are you okay, honey? What do

652
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: you need? She was like standing over me. I'm like, good,

653
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: a pencil.

654
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: Wait, you're saying anesthesia when you came out of surgery,

655
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: you said get a pencil?

656
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: You knew, right, Yes, yeah.

657
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: I was saying I was coming out of anesthesia, and

658
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: I was having the third verse to one of the

659
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: songs that had been really driving me nuts that I've

660
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: been trying to finish. And what it showed me was

661
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: that all that work I was doing, showing up and

662
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: trying to write lyrics, they were getting written, but they

663
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: were kind of lining up down the hallway, couldn't get

664
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: through the portal because this thing was in the way. Wow.

665
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: And it showed me that creative flow and creativity never stops.

666
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: And the fast.

667
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: You know, the quickness that I finished everything with wass

668
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: almost like I was just getting the mail, like when

669
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: you go on vacation and you come home and then

670
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: there's a ton of mail. It was like that, you know,

671
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 2: it was just like, Okay, so there is this thing

672
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: we have access to, and you know, people say, my god,

673
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: you've gone through this stuff and you know, but yeah,

674
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: but every every part of it is just been.

675
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: Amazing to look back and say. And then there's that, you.

676
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: Know, sure, And I think creativity and art and the

677
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: beauty of art and music and all the ways that

678
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: we manifest stuff through our grief and through our happiness

679
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: and through everything. You know, that's the great gift we

680
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: have to give each other and and we use it

681
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: to get better.

682
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 3: I think I couldn't agree with you more.

683
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, you're not only.

684
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: You're magical, like you're you're a seer or I should

685
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: call you Beth Nielsen Chatman, Nostradamus.

686
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: It's like, really, I'm just I'm just wandering around, bumping

687
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: into things.

688
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: And then I have a lot of words that a lot.

689
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: Going on though too, to that you've been able to

690
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: maneuver around in your life to still show up and

691
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: smile and put out such great energy and it's such

692
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: beautiful music to help others. What is it like when

693
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 3: you see you talked earlier about you know, there's always

694
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 3: a couple of stragglers in the audience. You haven't quite

695
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 3: got there yet, but then you see that happen. How

696
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 3: does that make you feel when you get those people

697
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 3: to see what you're putting out?

698
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'm really not trying to get anybody to do anything.

699
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: That's part of the To me, that's part of the

700
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: practice of being a performer and singing. In fact, I

701
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: teach a whole singing thing which is called vocal presence.

702
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: And I'm not a proponent of over singing. I like

703
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: to speak on pitchin rhythm. I don't really like to

704
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 2: get too calisthetics, you know, like, oh you know. And

705
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 2: I feel like, for instance, a song like Sand and Water,

706
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: the less you try to sing it with any drama,

707
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 2: the more powerful it is because everybody's in a different place,

708
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 2: and there will be people who listen to that song

709
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: and really appreciate it who don't cry. You know, not

710
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 2: everybody cries, but people who have pushed grief down that

711
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: sometimes will just go oh, you know, like that'll do it.

712
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: And I feel like I'm the messenger and my job

713
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: is not to overly amp the message, just let it

714
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: be what it is. It's powerful enough as a thing

715
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,479
Speaker 2: to hear that doesn't need me to put a catch

716
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: in my voice or try to show you how sad

717
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 2: it is. Like I sing it almost neutrally because I'm

718
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: honoring the power of the song to deliver its whole thing.

719
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: And you know, in twenty twenty two, believe it or not,

720
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 2: my second husband, Bob, who I married in twenty eleven.

721
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 2: I met him four years after Ernest died, and then

722
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 2: it took until that was like nineteen ninety eight. Took

723
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: until twenty eleven for us to get married. We had

724
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: a wonderful journey together, and he passed away in twenty

725
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: twenty two. He had leukemia. And I remember when I

726
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: first met him and he was trying to get me

727
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: to go out with him, and I was like, yeah,

728
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: I'm not really, you know, it's like I don't think so,

729
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: and he was like, I promise you, I will let

730
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: you die first. That was like a running joke with us,

731
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 2: and so when he got leukemia, he's like, don't worry,

732
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 2: I got this.

733
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: We're going to get rid of it.

734
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: And it was actually one of the more curable kinds,

735
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: and it kept coming back, and ultimately he passed away

736
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 2: and you know, he was so he was so brilliant,

737
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: and he was so funny. The last couple of weeks,

738
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 2: you know, we were similarly to Ernest, you know, like

739
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: kind of going towards death with a kind of a

740
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: staying present with it, you know, like laughing about it,

741
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 2: crying about it, being in that place, not acting like

742
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 2: it's not real, but also living every single moment together

743
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 2: that we could, you know, and learning. I mean, I

744
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: learned so much from both of those experiences about how

745
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: to live.

746
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: And I remember Bob saying you cannot.

747
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 2: Can't because I had all these shows booked for twenty

748
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 2: twenty three and he was December in twenty twenty two

749
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: when he died, and he said, please don't cancel.

750
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: Your tour next year.

751
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, you know, I don't know how

752
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: entertaining I'm going to be after my second husband dies

753
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: of cancer.

754
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: I mean, how am I going to you know?

755
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: And you know, just to give you a sense of

756
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: his sense of humor, he said, well I think you

757
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: should do it.

758
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: I think he's just what else are you going to do?

759
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going to sit around and cry.

760
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: Go out there, do your song, do sand and water

761
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 2: you know, let people just share it with them. You know,

762
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: your people will understand and I'll appreciate. I thought I

763
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: couldn't see how that would work. And then I had

764
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: this one big show coming up in Nashville at the

765
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: Franklin Theater, and it was the first one I would

766
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: have had to cancel. He goes, just tell me, just

767
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: promise me, you'll do that one show. And at this time,

768
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't know if he'd still be here

769
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 2: when the show happened. But he passed away four days

770
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 2: before the show. And then I felt like okay, and

771
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: I got Rodney Crowe, my old friend, to come and

772
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: be my stand in in case I lost my nerve.

773
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 2: And I put a little note on the all the

774
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: seats and I told the audience, Okay, here's the deal,

775
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: and I explained, my husband just passed away.

776
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: He really wanted me to do the show.

777
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 2: I have no idea whether I can do this show,

778
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: but I'm going to give it a shot. And it

779
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: was just the most powerful, amazing, loving thing to be surrounded.

780
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it makes me cry by this group of

781
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: people that came, and some of them didn't have any

782
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: idea they were going to.

783
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: See this show.

784
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: You know, they thought it was going to come hear

785
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: me do this gets and all my songs, and it

786
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: was doing sand and Water and having my son come

787
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: up and sing the harmony with me, and you know,

788
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: it just made me realize, this is what I should

789
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: be doing.

790
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: And whether I'm crying through it.

791
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 2: Or laughing through it, this is what I'm supposed to

792
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: be doing. And I didn't cancel a single show. And

793
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: it was really, you know, an amazing journey to to

794
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: take my sort of active grief out into the world.

795
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: And you know, I mean i'd laugh and you know,

796
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: we I don't actually cry on stage, but most of

797
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: the audience get gets a chance to go.

798
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: Who you know.

799
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: And and I didn't really set out to be any

800
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: kind of musical missionary by any by any stretch. And

801
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: when you say, oh, you're magical, I don't think I'm magical.

802
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: I think it's magical. I think all of this is magical,

803
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: and some of us are able to go.

804
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: Yes, it is. I can feel it because I'm aware.

805
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,959
Speaker 2: I'm aware of it, and others maybe don't so much

806
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: put it in that terms. But I don't think anybody

807
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 2: is unable to access the magic. It's just a matter

808
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: of whether you have a way of doing you know,

809
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: like you learn to do it or you start to

810
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: see it.

811
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: It's all around.

812
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: Us all the time, Yes, and we need to tap

813
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 3: into it more. Speaking of all of this, it's just

814
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 3: mind boggling what you just said to me.

815
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: I know it is.

816
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 3: It's you're just a mere mortal. And yet the way

817
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 3: that you speak about how you're living your life through

818
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: all of this potential tragedy or you know, a life

819
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 3: of just depression. How what advice for those listening right

820
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 3: now who maybe going through something and they're hearing you

821
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 3: and they still hear a smile in your voice, and

822
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 3: I can imagine still.

823
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: It's still fun.

824
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: There's still funny stuff, sort of the saddest things. Yeah,

825
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: I've been trying to I forgot to. I forgot to

826
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 2: actually tell you that one of the things I was

827
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: going to finish and I forgot to do it was

828
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: when I was having these conversations with Bob about whether

829
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: or not I should do the show.

830
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: I said, look, you know you've been to my show's Bob.

831
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I talk about I sing my songs and

832
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: kind of do this chronicle of my life. I talk

833
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: about losing earnest. I talk about going through breast cancer,

834
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: I sing a song about that. Talk about my brain tumor,

835
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: I sing a song about that. How am I going

836
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: to add another.

837
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: Husband who died? How does that? You know? And he's

838
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: a psychologist and he's like, hmm, very good point.

839
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: Let me think about that. Hmm okay, And he comes

840
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: back to me and he goes, I think you should

841
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 2: drop the brain.

842
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: Tumor can't be break you know.

843
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: So he was from New Jersey, so I mean York.

844
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: So well, it's not always funny. It's not you know.

845
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: There is a deep joy that I feel and a

846
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 2: deep gratefulness, you know, like I say, having gone through

847
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: chemo and all my hair fell out and knows terribly

848
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: upset at the time, but you know what now that

849
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: I'm I have like there's no such thing as a

850
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: bad hair day.

851
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: Ever. Any hair is a good hair day, any hair

852
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: at all, beautiful hair. By the way. Oh it's kind

853
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 1: of a mess today, but yeah.

854
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: But I mean, I just feel like when you have

855
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: the perspective of the parameters of life experience part of

856
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: what I think you have to well for me, I

857
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 2: will only speak for myself. I mean I have to.

858
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: I have to acknowledge it and look at it. I

859
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: can't try to evade the feelings of sadness. When a

860
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 2: feeling of sadness comes up, I say thank you, and

861
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 2: this sucks, but okay, thank you. I'm gonna and so

862
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: a wave. It's all of its waves and it's not

863
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: going to be there. The thing about the worst part

864
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: of grief, especially if you're really really raw with it,

865
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: is when you're in one of those waves of grief,

866
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: you think it's never gonna end. This is how I'm

867
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: gonna feel for the rest of my life, and it's intolerable,

868
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 2: and then it resolves, and then you have to remember

869
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 2: that was a wave. It had to beginning, a middle,

870
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: and an end, and there will be another one and

871
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: it will also lead back into joy. That's the only

872
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: way that I can express it.

873
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: Well, it's a beautiful expression. And I'm so grateful. It's

874
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: taken me a while to get you here. I know

875
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 3: it's been crazy, yet I'm so glad we finally got

876
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: to do this. Me too, and to me you in person,

877
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 3: and you're just such a shining light. And just keep

878
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 3: inspiring and keep doing what you're doing. I have one

879
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 3: last question for you, because it's just hit me. Why

880
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: do you continue to do what you do every day

881
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 3: in terms of sharing and teaching, And there's got to

882
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: be a reason.

883
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: I think it's.

884
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: You know, one of my drugs of choice, okay, is

885
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 2: the drug of feeling someone else kind of get their pilot,

886
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: like relt if they've lost it or if they've never

887
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 2: had it. Lit That to me is such a feeling

888
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: of I feel so grateful to be able to be

889
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: a part of that. It's, you know, there's something about

890
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: feeling like you're I don't know, maybe it's just feeling

891
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: like you're being useful to someone else. And not everybody

892
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: has the same reaction to anything. And I think one

893
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: of the things I've learned is I can't have no

894
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: control over whether or not anything I say or do

895
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: is going to help them. Maybe they're not in a

896
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 2: place where they're ready to hear what I have to

897
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: say or what it is. But the music goes on

898
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: all by itself. It's like I write a song and

899
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: it goes out in the world and it's got its

900
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: own little power source, and somebody tells somebody to go

901
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: listen to that song, and then they write me, you know,

902
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: And I mean, it's just it's like finding out you

903
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: win the lottery in little little lotteries all the time

904
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: when that happens because I didn't write the song to

905
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: In fact, if you try to write a song to

906
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 2: help other people, it usually sounds very flat. It's and

907
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: I tell my songwriting students all the time, I want

908
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 2: you to write selfishly.

909
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: I want you to write to help you get out

910
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 1: of the cage of whatever you're you know.

911
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: And and that's what makes it really powerful, you know,

912
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: just telling telling me about you. Don't try to about me,

913
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 2: don't try to fix me, just tell me how to

914
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: how you got fixed within yourself.

915
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

916
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: It just as evolved as something that I'm very drawn to.

917
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: And and it's it's it's a The world is full

918
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: of so much stuff that we have to struggle against.

919
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 3: Well, you may have been a part of it. You

920
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 3: may have been selfless selfish in writing, but in your

921
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 3: life you are selfless for sharing all of it. And

922
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 3: we're so grateful that you came to share.

923
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: I love sharing it as you can tell it.

924
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 3: Yes, I feel the same way. I feel like I'm

925
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 3: infringing on someone else's time.

926
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: Right now, so I don't want to.

927
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: I could talk to you all day long, but thank

928
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: you so much for sharing your story and I hope

929
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 3: that it brings some joy to whoever was listening to

930
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 3: us speak today because you're just amazing and thank you,

931
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 3: thanks so much, and.

932
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: Please check in on you.

933
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: I will, and thank you for this podcast. I'm going

934
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: to go listen to all the other ones now.

935
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: Oh I love that.

936
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone will be as good as this one.

937
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 3: Oh well, thanks Beth, thank you,