1 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: Personally with fuels Man. Happy Monday, friends, I'm really excited 2 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: to have you here this week. We are going to 3 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: change up the podcast just as much. I've always been 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: transparent honest with you guys. So usually we do two 5 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: people an episode, an expert and then someone to come 6 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: on and share their real life story. Now that concept 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: is not changing. I love it so much and I 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: love what it's doing for people, but we're gonna break 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 1: down the episode just a little bit further. So we're 10 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: gonna do one person a time for each episode, but 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: two back to back episodes, maybe even three. We'll have 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: a similar theme, the same concept, it's just broken down. 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: I felt like we were jamming so much good stuff 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: into one episode, and I'd love to start to go 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: into more depth with some of these interviews. Plus, if 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: I'm being totally transparent with you guys, I was starting 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: to get some very real burnout just trying to do 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: way too much that I don't even have hours in 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: the day to sleep or shower. So breaking this down 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: not only helps me, but I also feel like it's 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 1: gonna really allow me to continue this podcast in much broader, 22 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: bigger ways. So this week and next we are focused 23 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: on trauma and how that impacts our lives. This week, 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: I'm bringing on trauma therapist Lauren Hour. She has years 25 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: of experience working in trauma and this is truly her expertise, 26 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: So she has incredible knowledge for us and it'll be 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: really important not only hearing this, but going into next 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: week's episode with Hailey Dollar Hide. Lauren Ur is joining 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: me right now, and she is a trauma therapist. Lauren, 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me on this episode. 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on. 32 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to know from you. What got you 33 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: into this line of work, specifically this specialty. 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was unintentional. Originally, when I was in graduate school, 35 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: I didn't really know who I wanted to work with. 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: I had some categories of I didn't want to work 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: with kids, and I was pretty sure I didn't want 38 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: to work with couples. But I really at the end 39 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: of the day, was like, whatever, I'll just try things out. 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: And I ended up getting an internship in a agency 41 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: that worked with both offenders, juvenile offenders as well as 42 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: victims of abuse and their families, and so I had 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: really wanted to work with kids. I definitely was like, ah, 44 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: that sounds like the scariest population to work with in 45 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: terms of abuse, and that sounds really heavy, but I 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: actually ended up really loving it. It was such a 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: unique learning experience, I think, especially working with kind of 48 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: the three layers of victims as well as offenders and 49 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: their family seen trauma from these different angles, and so 50 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: that was it was really fascinating to me, and kind 51 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: of from there, I just ended up landing in similar 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 2: situations in terms of where I was drawn to with 53 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: my work. So I worked at a women's domestic violent 54 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: shelter as well, and then a rape crisis center as 55 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: a therapist where we worked with people of all ages, 56 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: and then I became the director of that center, and 57 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: so at that point I was not only working with 58 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: clients that had experienced a lot of trauma, but I 59 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: was also very much in a role of community outreach. 60 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: So I was doing trainings for like police and medical staff, 61 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: and supervising interns and other therapists, and working with people 62 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: at that vicarious trauma level, so like people in the 63 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: field that we're dealing with maybe their own trauma, but 64 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: also maybe being traumatized by some of the populations they 65 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: were working with. And so it was very interesting to 66 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: me to see things from all these different angles, all 67 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: these different layers, and that center that I worked for, 68 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: we would see people in crisis situation, so we would 69 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: show up at the emergency room, let's say, if they're 70 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: getting like an evidence collection kit done, so like really 71 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: immediate trauma, all the way to people coming in for 72 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: therapy later in life when they hadn't dealt with something 73 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: that maybe happened in their childhood, so like very far 74 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: removed from the trauma. And so it just became these 75 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: put in became something I was really passionate about because 76 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: I feel like I learned so much just from doing 77 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: that work about trauma. Like I'd obviously learned about it 78 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: in grad school and read all the books, but really 79 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: just being in those environments and working with people, it 80 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: was just like the best education I think you could 81 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: possibly get in terms of what trauma is, how it looks, 82 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: all the different ways it can manifest and yeah, so 83 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 2: total crash course. And then I open my own practice 84 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: after that, so now that's what I do. 85 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, you really have seen it from just so 86 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: many different steps and angles, And that's so interesting to 87 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: me because trauma is one of those things that it's 88 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: not a one size fits all, even though it could 89 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: be a similar scenario. It's something that has so many 90 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: multifaceted layers to it. And that's why I'm so intrigued 91 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: and wanted to dedicate not only in like an entire 92 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: episode and few episodes to it. I have a guest 93 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: coming on after you in the following episode who's going 94 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: to share her story actually of some of these things 95 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: that you talked about that she had happened in her life. 96 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: And it's wild as we see people experience these things 97 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: and what it does not just in that moment, but 98 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: throughout the entire course of their life. So when you 99 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: go and you do this kind of work, especially frontlines, 100 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: and you have these initial moments and you're working with people, 101 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: what are those things that you're experiencing with people and 102 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 1: you're seeing them experience where you're like, other people should 103 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: know what this might look like in case it happens 104 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: to them. 105 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting because if you would have asked 106 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: me that after doing graduate work and learning, reading books 107 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: or whatever, I probably would have been able to rattle 108 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: off some typical symptoms or things we might see. But 109 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: after doing this work for as long as I have. 110 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things that stands out 111 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 2: to me is that it can look so many different ways. 112 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: I've been in emergency rooms with people getting evidence collection 113 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: kits done after sexual assaults, where we're like laughing and joking, 114 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: and that's like their way of coping, like that's their 115 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: trauma response. I've been with people that are their immediate 116 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: response is to take care of everybody else around them, 117 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: or just go into planning and doing mode where they're 118 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: being really productive and really advocating heavily or getting things done. 119 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: Of course, I've sat with people that are very emotional 120 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: or angry or dissociated, like checked out. It's incredible, I think, 121 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: just the human capacity to deal with things and those 122 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: automatic responses that we develop when it comes to trauma. 123 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: And I think maybe initially I would have thought that 124 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: those people that were taking care of others or seemed 125 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: really strong or laughing, that oh, those are like the 126 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: resilient people that aren't super affected by this. But that's 127 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: not necessarily the truth. I think sometimes those people that 128 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: have that trauma response of taking care of other people 129 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: or of putting the focus elsewhere, it's still living in them. Internally, 130 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 2: and sometimes that is harder to process through and heal 131 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: from when they're not just maybe doing what you would 132 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: typically expect somebody in a traumatic situation. And so I 133 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: guess that's a non answer. 134 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: No, it's your question, but it's perfect actually because I 135 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: love to showcase that it doesn't look like you think 136 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: it would look always right. 137 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: And also to add to that, I think it's important 138 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 2: to keep in mind that when it comes to what 139 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: we would consider to be trauma, it's not really about 140 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: the event or events themselves or the circumstances as much 141 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: as it's about how that individual person, their nervous system, 142 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: their brain, and how they experience it. I often compare 143 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: it to like if two people were in a car 144 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: and gotten a car accident and vendor bender. Everyone's okay, 145 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: they get up. One of them might be shaken up 146 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: a little bit and just like we got through that 147 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: and really able to go on with their life. The 148 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: other person could be extremely anxious and panicky and not 149 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: want to drive and really having flashbacks in a hard 150 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: time or whatever it is, and they experience the exact 151 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: same event, but one of them might have experienced that 152 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: event as traumatic, whereas the other one maybe didn't. And 153 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: so keeping that in mind too, that we can't always 154 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: just look at a set of circumstances and assume how 155 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: somebody could feel and can you experience that? 156 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, can you break that down even a little bit 157 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: further for me, because why is it that some people 158 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: This kind of goes more into maybe more of the 159 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: science side of things, but why is it that some 160 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: people can process trauma easier, quicker, or so we think, 161 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: while others really internalize it becomes a whole part of 162 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: their body, and it's this whole process. Is there things 163 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: that you've seen and experienced that makes sense for us 164 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: to describe why that happens? 165 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's it can be a little 166 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: bit complex and multifaceted, and there's so many factors at 167 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: play there, and so there's like the immediate things that 168 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 2: are going on. So for instance, in that example with 169 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: the car accident, maybe one of the people in the 170 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: car is having a hard time finding a job and 171 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: they don't have a lot of resources, or they are 172 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: going through some sort of upheaval or distress in their life, 173 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: or dealing with other mental health concerns, or like there's 174 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: all those immediate things that could be at play that 175 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,359 Speaker 2: if they're baseline going into that experience, if they're already 176 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: dysregulated by a variety of other things going on, that 177 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: is going to impact them on a different level. But 178 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 2: it's also very historical. I think if they have dealt 179 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: with a lot of other traumatic things throughout their life, 180 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 2: if they've had access to processing those things and dealing 181 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: with them or not, what does the support system look 182 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: like going forward in the future. Are they going home 183 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: to a supportive and safe home where they have people 184 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: that they can talk to, do they have access to resources. 185 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: There's all of these factors like past, present, future that 186 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 2: kind of make up this unique circumstance around it. And 187 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: I'm such like an analogy person and I'm also like 188 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: a huge plant person. I have to buy plants all 189 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: the time, especially because it's becoming spring. But if you 190 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: think of your nervous system like a plant, like each 191 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: plant has very unique needs based on a genetic makeup 192 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: and growing conditions. You'll go to a nursery and this 193 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: one needs a lot of sun, and this one actually 194 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: does better with some shade, And this one needs to 195 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: be watered frequently, and that one, oh barely water it 196 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: at all. They all have this kind of makeup already 197 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: in their system of what they need. Humans are the 198 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: same way, but it's all of those things about how 199 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 2: consistent is the care that you're giving it. Are there 200 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: periods of drought our systems, we have our own individual 201 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: capacities for processing experiences. So some plants can become like 202 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: really hardy and maybe there's like lots of exposure to 203 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: wind and harsh conditions, while others are used to growing 204 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 2: in more like delicate or protected spaces. So some might 205 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: develop deeper roots from early stress while other create broader 206 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: leaves because they have abundance in their conditions and trauma 207 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 2: that can happen when we're flooded with either more than 208 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: we can absorb at once. So that would maybe look 209 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: like if you had a new little plant, had you 210 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: left it outside and there was a sudden downpour that 211 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: overwhelms the system rather than nourishes it, Like that could 212 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 2: be a really big I think a lot of times 213 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 2: when we think of trauma like a really big devastating 214 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: event happening, right, that's like that downpour. But it can 215 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: also occur when you're exposed to harsh conditions for too long. 216 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: So like maybe a plant could thrive in heat for 217 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 2: a day, but if it's in hot heat and it's 218 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: not designed for that for days or weeks, it's too 219 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 2: much for too long, and that could really hurt it, 220 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: or it could develop, trauma could develop if you're deprived 221 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 2: of what you need to thrive, going to too long 222 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 2: without water or light, like being neglected. It's not always 223 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 2: something happening around you or to you, but also it 224 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 2: can be like the absence of what you need for 225 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 2: too long, and so like even two plants of the 226 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: same species might need different amounts of care based on 227 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: their unique growing history. Too. There's not just like a 228 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: perfect formula around that. So it's not like about the 229 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: weather itself as much as it's about each individual plants 230 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: system and how it responds to that environment. It's really 231 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: the same way with how our nervous systems develop. We 232 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: have very unique requirements based on our genetic blueprint and 233 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 2: also all these other environmental factors around us. 234 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: I love an analogy. So the way that you just 235 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: painted that so perfectly with plants and allows people to 236 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: understand it just in this deeper way beautiful. 237 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: The reason my analogies don't hit, But I feel like 238 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: that one I think is pretty all encompassing of what 239 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: trauma is like. 240 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: No, it definitely is. And the reason I even asked 241 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: that question is because I think it's really easy for 242 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: us to get caught up in this belief that I 243 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: didn't experience it that way, so why are they experiencing 244 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: it that way? We like to really just put people 245 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: in our own boxes instead of understanding that we are 246 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: individual and we have unique experiences, and so having you 247 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: share that in that way hopefully can really help people 248 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: just be a little bit more understanding of those experiences 249 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: and that it's not they're not going to react the 250 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: same way you choose to react. 251 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: It's going to be different exactly. Yeah, And when you mentioned. 252 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: This too, it had me thinking of a lot of 253 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: what we see on social media is people talking about 254 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: little tea's and big teas. Do you feel like that's 255 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: really the case or is it just it's. 256 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: Just trauma or is that like little. 257 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: Tea Big Tea actually helpful and truthful in our experience 258 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: in our learning. 259 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a place for it. I used 260 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: to teach that and train that because that was the standard. 261 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: But I guess for me personally, I don't love the 262 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: language of little and big because I think it can suggest, 263 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: oh that one's not as serious as this other thing. 264 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: I think what it's really trying to say by using 265 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 2: little and big is more how I was describing with 266 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: the plants, like a sudden downpour, like all at once, 267 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: too much that is big, that would be an overwhelm 268 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: in a short period of time, whereas little ty, I 269 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 2: think is more the like could be like the neglect 270 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: or the just not having enough for too long. And 271 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: again there's so many. I think it goes so much 272 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: deeper than that, and so I shy away personally from 273 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: using that language just because I think it can create 274 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: some misconception and even some shame around maybe if people 275 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 2: are dealing with a lot of trauma responses, but on paper, 276 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: the things that they've experienced are quote little that they 277 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 2: may think that they there's something wrong with them, or 278 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: they're making too much of something, or other people don't 279 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: understand or invalidating their own experiences. It's just so personal 280 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: an individual to how somebody experiences something, and for there 281 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 2: to be any sort of outward perception of that is 282 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: basically impossible because we as an outsider, like I can't 283 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: know all of the environmental, genetic, circumstantial all of these things. 284 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 2: There's no way for me to know that unless that 285 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 2: person shares that with me. 286 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: It totally came to my mind because I remember one time, 287 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: I think I was sitting in the therapy session and 288 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: I referred to something as like, oh, it's just like 289 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: a little tea, And I even felt weird saying it, 290 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: like I felt myself invalidating what I experienced. And I 291 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: don't know if it was because people made me feel 292 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,959 Speaker 1: that way or if I just personally felt that way 293 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: because I had bigger traumas, But I remember just even 294 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: saying it, I'm like, you know what, No, it's not 295 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: Actually that was really traumatic, and why am I downplaying 296 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: that experience? So I'm glad that you shared that because 297 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: it's helpful. Just talking about everything in the mental health 298 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: space is helpful. We're communicating finally about something that's really important. 299 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: But using harmful language can also make it really difficult 300 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: on us to truly heal. 301 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And I think there's also an important thing 302 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 2: to keep in mind about how important like what happens 303 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 2: next is and what I mean by that is you 304 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: know there's a traumatic event itself. Let's just say abuse. 305 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 2: If a kid experiences abuse, and then that's a traumatic event. 306 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: But then they tell a parent, hey, this thing happened 307 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: to me, and if the parent's reaction is like they 308 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: don't believe them, or they're downplaying it, or they are 309 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: blaming them, or even if the parent's reaction is devastated 310 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 2: and very emotional, and then the parent can't function and 311 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: the parent like there's all of these kind of like 312 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: after effects. I think too that can create sometimes an 313 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 2: even bigger wound and there can be even more trauma 314 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 2: associated with that. Or maybe even being in an environment 315 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: where they feel like they can't share what happened to 316 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 2: them because they don't feel like either they have safe 317 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: adults or they don't think that the adults in their 318 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 2: life are able to handle that. Maybe they're trying to 319 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: protect that adult. There's so many things there too that 320 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: I think is also really important to consider when we're 321 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 2: talking about what trauma is and how we experience it. 322 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that when you were mentioning 323 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: in it, because so many of these very emotional topics 324 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: and things that are referred to as trauma do often 325 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: come around with this part of I don't believe your 326 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: experience or it's not. 327 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: What you think it was, or invalidating. 328 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: That, and I do believe that is trauma within itself. 329 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: To not have people understand or believe. 330 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 2: You, right, Yeah, And sometimes I mean the rupture that 331 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: can cause an attachment or even feeling safe enough to 332 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: heal through that, or the what happens next can be huge. 333 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: So yeah, when, yeah, when something happens, this piece of 334 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: trauma that happens in your life and it's going to 335 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: play out, maybe it's days, months, years, how do you 336 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: know that you're still living within that trauma versus being 337 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: healed from it? 338 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I know these are the complex I think 339 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: there's so many things that we experience that I think 340 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: a lot of times we don't even realize have anything 341 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: to do with trauma. Because a lot of times I'll 342 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 2: see people in therapy and maybe let's say they're dealing 343 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: with anxiety. That's something that comes up for them a lot, 344 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 2: maybe social anxiety, let's say, And maybe they've done therapy, 345 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 2: maybe they've done self help or read the books or 346 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 2: listen to all the podcasts or whatever, but they maybe 347 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 2: they get to a point where they understand logically why 348 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 2: they have social anxiety. Maybe they're able to say, okay, 349 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: that makes sense because I had some really close friends 350 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 2: and then we got in a big fight and then 351 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 2: I felt really abandoned or whatever. Like I can point 352 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: to things in my life that it makes sense that 353 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: when I'm in social situations now that I would be anxious. 354 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 2: That's great, But just having that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean 355 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: that all of a sudden the anxiety is gone, right, 356 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 2: And so I think sometimes people can feel really stuck 357 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 2: in that of wait, I've done all this work, I 358 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 2: can put logic behind it. It makes sense. But when 359 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 2: I get invited to a social event, my body is 360 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: tense and I'm breathing differently, and I am feeling like 361 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: I don't want to be there, and I'm second guessing 362 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 2: everything I say. They're still experiencing it, and so it's 363 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: not enough to just know the why around it, because 364 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 2: the parts of your brain that are activated when you're 365 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: experiencing something traumatic is not the logical part of your brain, 366 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 2: that prefrontal cortex that can give explanation and put sense 367 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 2: to it when you're actually experiencing those things. It is 368 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 2: like that deeper, more instinctual part of your brain, the 369 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 2: like fight flight freeze, the knee jerk emotion, the knee 370 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: jerk reaction, how your body braces in those moments, and 371 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: really your logical part of your brain goes offline when 372 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: that's happening. Just like I talk a lot about. To 373 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 2: illustrate this, if you've ever been driving in the car 374 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, the car in front of 375 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 2: you slams on their brake, and so you slam on 376 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 2: your brake and you like put the like phantom arm 377 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 2: out to just. 378 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: Stop, what we call the mom arm, like that right, and. 379 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: There's like nothing there, Like it's just an empty seat. 380 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 2: But it's just that like instinctual reaction that we do. 381 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 2: And that's such a small little example, but it's a 382 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: really good illustration of the fact that logically there's nothing there, 383 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: Like it doesn't make sense, you're not protecting the invisible enough, 384 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: But it is just what your body does. It's just 385 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 2: that initial bracing and I think a lot of trauma 386 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: that we experience however that looks there is just those 387 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: instinctual reactions. That's how we're wired as humans who be 388 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,479 Speaker 2: and so being able to actually heal from that and 389 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 2: go beyond that stuffness of I can make sense of it, 390 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: but I'm still having these reactions. A lot of that 391 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 2: really has to do with processing from the parts of 392 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 2: your brain that we're actually online during the trauma, and 393 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: so there's all sorts of therapy techniques and modalities that 394 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 2: get into that that kind of fall under this matic category. 395 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 2: But it's about being in tune with your body and 396 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 2: what's going on when you think about that, and what 397 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: are you feeling, and what are the sensations. And therapies 398 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 2: like EMDR and brain spotting and polyvagel therapy, there's a 399 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: ton that kind of fall in that category, but really 400 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 2: being able to bring your body into the therapy work 401 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 2: is what can really facilitate healing in the sense of 402 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 2: where those automatic reactions aren't coming up as strongly. 403 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: And I did see on your profile that you do 404 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: have work in EMDR, brain spotting, IFS somatic. Can you 405 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: just little kind of exerts of what each of these 406 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: things are because having resources and sometimes people don't even 407 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: know these things exist. 408 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it can be very confusing looking 409 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: for a therapist because there's all these acronyms and all 410 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: these specialties, and I think people are like, oh, that 411 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 2: person there profile says their trauma informed, but that could 412 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 2: mean that they took a trauma class in college twenty 413 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 2: years ago. I think it is good to have some 414 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 2: level of understanding of maybe like what some of these 415 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: things are. Emdr and brain spotting are two techniques that 416 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 2: follow the same neuroscience, two different ways to go about it, 417 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 2: and it basically utilizes the neurobiology of how our nervous 418 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 2: system is connected to our brain and how we process 419 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: things and bilateral movements or eye position, because our eyes, 420 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 2: how they where they look, how they look, all of 421 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: that stuff is really how our brain is processing through 422 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 2: things and activating all those other parts of our brain 423 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 2: the left and the right hemisphere. And so it's like 424 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: these specific techniques that are designed to I guess, wake 425 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 2: up or activate those deeper parts of your brain while 426 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: you're doing the processing in a slow way, in a 427 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 2: controlled way. That's another thing. Like we say fast as 428 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: slow and slow as fast. You really can't rush through it. 429 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: I always say it's hard to explain it because it 430 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 2: sounds really weird. It'd be like me trying to explain 431 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: to somebody like how to ride a bike if they've 432 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 2: never even seen a bike. I really think there is 433 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: part of it. You almost have to do it because 434 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 2: you're activating the subcortical systems of your brain. Subcortical meaning 435 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 2: the parts that are without word and without logic, and 436 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: so to explain it in logical ways with words, it's hard. 437 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: But it's also cool because you're tapping into a part 438 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: of your brain that to us feels like it's not 439 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: active even though it is, but because it's not transferring 440 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: language in the way that we understand, this is a 441 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: way to access a piece of view. It's kind of 442 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: like plugging yourself into an outlet and being like the 443 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: whole thing actually finally turns on and it is how 444 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm like seeing it. 445 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, yeah, because if you think about it, how 446 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: often you're just going about your life and you know 447 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: you're walking, but you're not like going, okay, lift this 448 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 2: leg up, put this leg down, now this one. Like 449 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: it's just so automatic where we're not actually in our body, 450 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: we're not thinking about it. You could be off in 451 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 2: your mind thinking about something completely random or fully going 452 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 2: through a task physically, and so it's so natural for 453 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 2: humans to not actually fully be in their body when 454 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 2: they are just going about day to day life. But 455 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: especially I think sometimes when we're recalling things like memories 456 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: or emotional pieces of trauma, it's almost like we naturally 457 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 2: go away from our body and just go up to 458 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: our brain of like telling the story, and that feels 459 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: almost protective in a way, and it's not conscious, but 460 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: that is what we do. And so being able to 461 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 2: create that like slow it down and create that safety, 462 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 2: wake up the whole body and the whole presence while 463 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: being able to process through stuff, that's what's going to 464 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 2: create the change. 465 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: Is this also when you can access something because I 466 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: know and like the trauma that I've experienced, there'll be 467 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: moments where before I had really worked through a lot 468 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: of stuff where I really packed it down and pushed 469 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: it away. Does EMDR and brain spotting help you access 470 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: the stuff that you pushed out of your mind in 471 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: a way? 472 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? Sometimes, Okay, sometimes not. I think sometimes people are 473 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 2: afraid to do these types of therapies because they're fearful 474 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: about what if I recall memories or what if I've 475 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 2: blocked something out that comes up whatever. Sometimes that may happen. However, 476 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 2: our brains are incredible that when our brains do block 477 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: out memories or we don't have access to that, there's 478 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 2: a reason for that. Our brains are always trying to 479 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 2: protect us, and your brain is not going to recall 480 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: those things if it doesn't feel safe enough to do so. 481 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 2: So sometimes that is a slow process, and you can 482 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: trust easy in the fact that if memories are coming up, 483 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 2: it is because you are at a regulated enough place 484 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 2: to be able to handle those things. Also, there are 485 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: sometimes things like pre verbal memories or medical trauma where 486 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 2: maybe you're under anesthesia or something where you literally aren't 487 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: going to have active memory and you can't recall that, 488 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 2: but your body was still experiencing whatever that is. And 489 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: so sometimes there is truly no memory associated with trauma 490 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: that we've experienced, and it's not necessarily the goal. You 491 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 2: don't need to have the memory in order to heal 492 00:30:59,200 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: from it. 493 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: Wow, it's so cool that we have access to these 494 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: things and to be able to do this to help ourselves. 495 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to just slide past that because the 496 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: fact that we have technology and things like this in 497 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: place to start to heal ourselves is such a cool 498 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: place to be in in life. So that's just awesome 499 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: to me. As I'm sitting here thinking about this. 500 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 2: It's incredible. I like geek out over what I do 501 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 2: every day and just the stuff that I like. The 502 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: healing I see is just incredible. I love it. 503 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: So you're doing incredible work and making some very big 504 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: life changes for people on that flip side of trauma. 505 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: What happens if we don't heal our trauma? What happens 506 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: if we just go through our life and we just 507 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: keep shoving it down, pushing it away, not ever facing it. 508 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: It just stays down, never comes back out. Yeah, what 509 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 1: does that look like in somebody? Because I do think 510 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people experience this, like with people in 511 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: their lives where they're like, you haven't worked through anything, 512 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: and I can feel this coming out at me. So 513 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: what can that look like for someone? Because I think 514 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: it helps us understand a little bit more just maybe 515 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: what people are going through. 516 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 2: Like those things. It doesn't just dissipate. I'll give you 517 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: another analogy because I just can't help it how my 518 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: brain works. 519 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: But I love analogies, so you can can't. 520 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's if you had a room in your house 521 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 2: that it was like your junk room and everything. I'll 522 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 2: deal with that later. Went into that room, and then 523 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 2: you shut the door, like you could shut the door 524 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: and pretend it's not there. It's not going to just 525 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 2: go away, and eventually, like there is going to be 526 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 2: other consequences to that. In that sense, maybe it's like 527 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 2: eventually you need to sell your house, and now it's 528 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 2: this huge thing. Like sometimes there's something that happens where 529 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 2: it's like you can't avoid it because something so big happens. 530 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: I feel like I saw this a lot, like in 531 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: COVID times that people were able to manage or push 532 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 2: down whatever it was, but when this global thing was 533 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 2: happening for some people, that was the straw that broke 534 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 2: the camel's back. There is some unrelated thing and sometimes 535 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 2: even like a small thing that is just going to 536 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: tip that scale and then all of a sudden you 537 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 2: start feeling really overwhelming symptoms. I do think that sometimes 538 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 2: people can successfully shove it down for a period of time, 539 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 2: but it's like holding a beach ball underwater, like you can. 540 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 2: You really have to struggle to keep that in, and 541 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 2: eventually it might be too much to hold that down 542 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 2: whatever that looks like. And so a lot of times 543 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 2: it does even come out in little reactions, little moods, 544 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,719 Speaker 2: or how we are doing in relationships with other people 545 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: are tended sees to maybe shut people out or like 546 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: all sorts of things. A lot of times it comes 547 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 2: out like we cope with things through things like addictions 548 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 2: or all these other things that might not be a 549 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: huge problem, and I don't like to pathologize even that stuff. 550 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 2: It might be an unpopular thing, but even addiction, right 551 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: if somebody leaned on an addiction or a substance to 552 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: numb themselves, Let's say after traumatic things happened because they 553 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 2: just maybe didn't have the capacity or the resources, or 554 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 2: they just straight up weren't ready to touch it, and 555 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 2: they found something that got them through that time to 556 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 2: where they could manage day to day hopefully to a 557 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 2: point where you know, usually that thing that helped them 558 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 2: manage becomes its own problem and then now they're dealing 559 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 2: with the consequences of that. I'm like, I'm so happy 560 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 2: that they found something to get them by when they 561 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 2: needed to. Also there's consequences to that, and sometimes then 562 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 2: it's a bigger problem. But we do need those things, 563 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 2: even if they're unhealthy, even if they aren't really serving 564 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 2: us long term. It's not always realistic to oh I 565 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 2: experienced a trauma, like going to go start journaling every 566 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 2: day and get into a yoga practice. That's not always possible. 567 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think sometimes we do what we need 568 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 2: to do to get by, but sometimes those things we 569 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 2: do to get by become their own beast. And sometimes 570 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 2: people go to therapy I think because they think the 571 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 2: problem is the addiction or the relationship problems or whatever 572 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,320 Speaker 2: it is, and it is the problem, but like, where 573 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 2: did that problem come from? Almost always it's going to 574 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 2: connect somewhere to some sort of trauma that they've experienced 575 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 2: at some point in their life. Yeah. 576 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about root causes on this podcast, 577 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: and man if that ain't the cure all for just 578 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: about everything. Is like you got to get to the 579 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: root of something that's happening instead of just fixing something 580 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: with a band aid, right, mental, physical health, all the things. 581 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 582 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so something that's also very much involved with trauma. 583 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: I got a question about this from a few different 584 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,919 Speaker 1: people actually, which makes me think a lot of people 585 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: are handling this in this way, but you end up 586 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: in a survival mode or a fight or flight, and 587 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: you just ruminate in this cycle of that for however long, 588 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: and it's really. 589 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 2: Hard to break yourself out of that. 590 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: However that looks like for someone who's trying to get 591 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: out of survival mode or a fight or flight or 592 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: that freeze that you mentioned too, what are some first 593 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: steps they can take to break that ruminating cycle that. 594 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 2: Part of them that is, let's say we'll go with 595 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 2: fight being reactive or touchy or it has big emotions, 596 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,479 Speaker 2: that part of them. It's not connected to the fact 597 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 2: that there's not that same level of threat in the moment. 598 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,439 Speaker 2: It's like logically they might know this is different than 599 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 2: the trauma I experienced, but it's an automatic reaction that's 600 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 2: coming up because their system is just noticing things in 601 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 2: their environment, triggers whatever it may be, just regulation and 602 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 2: like ringing the alarm bell, and so those reactions come 603 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:39,240 Speaker 2: up automatically, and so part of it is having that understanding, 604 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 2: so you're not adding fuel to the fire by blaming 605 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 2: yourself or being hard on yourself for that of this 606 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 2: is automatic. This is just it's happening. Detaching that extra 607 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 2: layer of shame and blame that you have, but also 608 00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 2: trying to understand what purpose that might be. Certain, because 609 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 2: if your system thinks that it's going to be in danger, 610 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 2: your system is going to react. It just is and 611 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 2: that's wonderful because you want your system to react if 612 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 2: it feels like there's danger. But again, I think it 613 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 2: really goes back to being able to not just put 614 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 2: the logic behind it, but like connecting those parts of 615 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 2: the brain and helping bring your body into that processing 616 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 2: so that you can logically understand it, but you're really 617 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 2: what needs to happen is your cells, your nervous system, 618 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 2: your body needs to understand like this is different and 619 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 2: I'm safe now, and there's I think there's like some 620 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 2: self talk and stuff that can go along with that 621 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 2: as well, but it is a process and like allowing 622 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 2: yourself the time that it needs to get through that 623 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 2: period of time. 624 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I appreciate you answering that for some people, 625 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: because I do think actually coming out of COVID, I think. 626 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 2: That caused a lot for a lot of people. 627 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: But more than that, we're just in some crazy times 628 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: right now and people are going through it. You dubbed 629 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: a new word in healing called trauma lessence. 630 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 2: Am I saying that correctly. Yeah, can you break. 631 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: That down for me and what it looks like, because 632 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: when I watched this content, I was like, Oh, this 633 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 1: is so cool and super important. 634 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,720 Speaker 2: How like when you become a parent, when you become 635 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 2: a mother, how it can feel almost like adolescence in 636 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 2: that you're like trying to figure out like who am I? 637 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 2: Where do I fit? Like what is my That kind 638 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 2: of like awkward new version of yourself, trying to figure 639 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 2: out the bridge between who you were and who you 640 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 2: now are. And I noticed that in trauma healing, I 641 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 2: was seeing a lot of that too, of this kind 642 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 2: of what felt like almost like adolescent period in the 643 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 2: healing process of like huh, now that I see this 644 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 2: thing differently, or now that I don't have those certain 645 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,399 Speaker 2: reactions coming up as big anymore, or now that I'm 646 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 2: looking at this thing in a new light, who am 647 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 2: I without the identity of the trauma and the stuff 648 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 2: around me? And how it's a period of time that 649 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 2: can feel really vulnerable and really scary, but it's also 650 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 2: like really good and beautiful, and so I get excited 651 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 2: and when therapy, when people are like coming to me 652 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 2: and being like, man, like I don't know why I 653 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I don't know what to do 654 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 2: with myself. Who am I? Or ugh? I always used 655 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 2: to just you know, nod and smile in these certain situations, 656 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,320 Speaker 2: and now I find myself like speaking up and that's scary, 657 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 2: and like what does that mean? Like all of these 658 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 2: things that almost freak them out about themselves, and I'm like, yay, 659 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 2: Like healing is happening. It's exciting, and I feel like 660 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 2: that's just people becoming who they are actually are without 661 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 2: all the junk that forced them to adapt in all 662 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 2: these different ways. It's like almost like refinding themselves. 663 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. I loved that word, and I love that so 664 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: thanks for coming up with it. And I do like 665 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: to end our episodes always with whether it's a piece 666 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: of advice, whether it's something that we didn't touch on 667 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: that you feel is so important. I leave it open 668 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: ended up to you that you like to leave us 669 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: on this place. So Flora is yours. Let me know 670 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: if there's anything that comes to mind for you. 671 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, so much. I'm biased, obviously, but like I 672 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 2: think everybody can benefit from therapy, whether they feel like 673 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 2: they have quote little P trauma or big T trauma 674 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 2: or anything at all, Like being a human is hard, 675 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 2: and there's always going to be stuff. I know that 676 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 2: there can obviously be barriers for people finding a good therapist, 677 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 2: fit or feeling like they can and access those things. 678 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, the best thing you 679 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 2: can do for yourself and all the people around you 680 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,439 Speaker 2: is to get to know yourself and figure out who 681 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 2: you are without all of that other stuff getting in 682 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 2: the way. And you know, I always say trauma can 683 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 2: be passed down through generations, so can healing. It's never 684 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 2: too late. It's not like, oh, that happened forever ago. 685 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,760 Speaker 2: It's truly never too late. I just really encourage anybody 686 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 2: that if they have any inkling of I should do that. Eventually. 687 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 2: Listen to that, do that. It's one of the best 688 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 2: things you can do for yourself. 689 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: Yes, there's a perfect way to end one. 690 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 2: We did it. 691 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: So thank you so much Lauren for being here, for 692 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: sharing your expertise and just helping change the world for 693 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: some people because it's important. 694 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm always happy to 695 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 2: talk about this stuff. 696 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: If you want to follow Lauren on socials, her instagram 697 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: is your Trauma Therapist Underscore I'll put it in the 698 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: description too. Next week, my friend Hailey dollar Hie joins 699 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: me to share some of the trauma she's experienced and 700 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: how it's impacted her throughout her life. Her story is 701 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: one of a lot of resilience and so much strength, 702 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: so don't miss it. You can follow the podcast Instagram, 703 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: take this personally, and don't forget to hit subscribe and 704 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: rate five stars because we do have some trollers hanging 705 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: out in the reviews. As always, I'm really happy you're here, 706 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,919 Speaker 1: thanks for listening, and you guys are awesome. We'll talk 707 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: next week.