WEBVTT - Is it possible to brainwash someone? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.439 from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:20.520 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. I'm about to brainwash Charles W. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.720 Chuck Bryant. You can't brainwash me? Yes, I can? You 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:28.080 capitalist pig dog. That's not working. Oh, it will believe me. 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:30.840 I haven't even gotten started, buddy. I'm so confident in 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.400 my abilities that brainwats you that I can even tell 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.120 you how I'm doing it. While I'm doing it. You're 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.480 gonna come out on the other end exactly what I wanted, 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:43.720 which is a chicken. You do seem kind of, you know, confident. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:51.520 Stare into my belly, Chuck. That's not brainwashed, it's hypnotized. Hey, 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:53.319 have you ever known anybody who's brainwashed? Do you ever 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.880 known a cult member? No? But why do I have 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.960 a feeling that you have. I've met cult members before. 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.040 What you have I have in your drum circles? They 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:07.199 were part of the Kashi Yoga cult. Really wow, Yeah, 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.160 totally nice, harmless people, but they were part of a 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.840 cult and they didn't do a Heaven's Gate deal. No, 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.560 uh no, actually they do quite the opposite. They make 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.280 like sandwiches for homeless people and stuff like that. And 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.400 they don't wear nikes. No, no, they were loosely fitting 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.520 clothing and all the Heavens Gate people when that one 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.200 of the hallmarks. And they were all um, all the 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.000 males were castrated. They were basically a sexual slick as 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.000 a can do all down there. Yeah, have fun with that. Yeah, 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.040 but uh chuck. You know, there's kind of a hysteria 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.920 associated with cults, like you know, if you're a member 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.480 of a colt or even tossing that word around kind of. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.600 But in the seventies, big time, remember all that, Yeah, 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:50.000 the Moonies, the Unification Church. Brainwashing was a big deal. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:55.520 Jim Jones's church. I don't remember what he called it. Yeah, right, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:02:00.440 did you know though, that um, what everybody considered brain washing. 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.960 It's just it's just rubbish. Well, what like torture? No, no, okay, 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.799 there's actually a distinction. I found out. Well there's two camps. Right. Well, 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.680 here's the thing. You've got actual brainwashing, which has been 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.360 empirically demonstrated to work on a person if it's carried 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.919 out in conjunction with torture, right, there's another thing called 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:29.960 coercive persuasion, yes, and that's basically brainwashing without without torture, 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:32.800 which is why everybody, you know, is that's what they 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.560 think that you know, the Moonies did, or Jim Jones did, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.320 or David Koresh did. Yeah, there's usually not violence involved 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.799 in cults, to be honest. No, No, there's not a 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.800 thread of violence. Perhaps, nor is their brainwashing, or at 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.400 the very least it's never been empirically demonstrated that that 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.480 actually works. I think the willingness of the participants is 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.560 often overlooked, especially by family members. So basically what I'm 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.480 saying is that the whole concept of cults is like 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.760 these these uh, these brain washing machines. It's not correct 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:08.680 brain washing machines or brainwashing machines, same thing. Yeah, it's 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.359 good stuff, thought reformed, Josh. Yeah. But all of this 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.959 can be traced back. This whole hysteria over brainwashing can 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.880 be traced back to a British journalist by the name 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.480 of Edward Hunter. This extra research look at you. Well, 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.359 he was mentioned briefly in the article. Okay, well, but 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.160 he was in a fervent anti communist He wrote a 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.040 book um called I Think Brainwashing Techniques of Red China 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.320 uh and it was published in nineteen fifty three, and 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.800 he later testified in front of the McCarthy um Committee, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:44.480 the Senate can Senate Un American Activities Committee. Yah. Um, 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.400 I don't think it's quite right, but yeah, it's close. 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:47.840 I think I got all the words in there. This 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.600 is not in the right order. And he basically scared 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.440 the Bejesus out of everybody, saying that the Communists have 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.000 brainwashing down to a science, will do anything. They're gonna 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.960 brainwash this hall not well know. I mean, it's not 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.640 like the Communists didn't try and specifically they tried um 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.920 most actively in Korea during the Korean War. Right Korean 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:14.640 and Chinese captors did this too. American soldiers that were POWs, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.880 to some varying degrees of success. I think they said 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.680 that twenty one soldiers refused to come back to the 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.359 United States when they were set free. And there's some 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:27.280 a little bit of discrepancy because it's twenty one out 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.680 of twenty thou prisoners. So some people say these guys 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.440 weren't brainwashed, they just you know, coming to come back. Yeah, 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.240 maybe they you know, Doug Korean chicks or something. Yeah, 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.880 maybe so, yeah we're Korean dudes or yeah, we're wide 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.080 open here at stuff. You should know. You know, whatever 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:44.640 you want to do, as long as you're not hurting 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.120 anybody else, we're cool with that. But yeah, the the 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.920 Korean and Chinese captors of these POWs did in fact 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.480 have a systematic process of brainwashing in place, and they 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.479 did it in conjunction with tortures, so it could have 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.920 actually worked. It could have. And I I think this 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:03.960 article is great. Just let me go ahead and say, 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.240 Julia Layton has got the goods. Bro. She does. She's 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.440 a great writer. And I love it when we do 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.680 podcasts on her articles. Yeah, because they're just chock full 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:14.560 of good stuff. Way to go, Layton. And so when 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.760 I read this article, I thought it all made sense 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.360 to me. When I when we're gonna break it down 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.760 here in a minute of how you brainwatch someone, and 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.520 it all added up, I was like, wow, that I 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.200 could see how that would work. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.320 so let's let's talk about it. That there was a 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:33.039 psychologist named Lifton, Robert J. Lifton, right, and he was 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.640 the one who started studying um returning POWs from the 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:41.200 Korean conflict. Um, and he basically by cobbling together their 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:47.240 information and their reports. Yeah. Uh, he figured out the 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.400 process of brainwashing. As you know, the Communists did it, 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.600 and actually it wasn't anything new. It's a twentieth century phenomenon. 0:05:55.839 --> 0:06:00.560 It appears. Yeah, Chairman Mao Um actually about it as 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.200 far back as ninety nine and his little Red Book, 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.360 which wasn't published until nineteen sixty four. Yeah, what did 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.960 he call it? Are you ready for this? Yeah? Go ahead? 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:14.000 He called it see chang jang with with apologies to 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.360 Sauceu over in Keia who tried to teach me that pronunciation. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:20.320 She took a lot of time out of her day 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.400 for that one and her candy bowl. I sat there 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.720 in eight candy the whole time. She's helping me. Yeah. 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.760 So that means thought thought struggle, yeah, which which makes 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.040 sense because what you're doing is you're creating a conflict 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.200 in the person. That's one way to look at it. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:40.600 But you're also there's a struggle between the person who's 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.080 being brainwashed, which is called the target, right, and the 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.599 person who's doing the brainwashing, which will heretofore be referred 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:52.520 to as the agent, kind of creepy agent and target. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.200 So should we talk about should we just go ahead 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.800 and and go over the steps of how you do it? Well, 0:06:57.880 --> 0:06:59.960 let's talk about what brainwashing is based on. It's actually 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.800 based on real psychology, right, Okay, called social influence, yeah, 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.960 which is everywhere, it's all around, and there's three different 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:12.120 little zones here. Compliance, which is just do it. Yeah, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.280 that's a good way to say it, Josh. And then 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.880 there's persuasion, which is do it because you feel better, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.080 more successful, more more happy, do it because it feels good. 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.800 Do it because it feels good. And then the education method, 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.480 which is do it because it's the right thing to do, right, 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.080 which is also called the propaganda method, because if you don't, 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.760 if you don't believe what you're being taught. And we've 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:38.360 talked about propaganda, yeah, good stuff, it was. So basically 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.200 brainwashing is all of these things combine persuasion, compliance, and 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.800 education and taken to the nth degree. Right, But it's 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.720 it's generally carried out, like I said, in conjunction with 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:56.720 torture and um using techniques like sleep deprivation, isolation. Isolation 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.520 should be you can't brainwash someone if the the paper 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.440 every day, right, or if you send them out and 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.320 say all right, that's enough for now. You can just 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.760 go back home. Ye watch Jeffards go to the library 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.760 for a while. Cool your heels. Yeah, it's not gonna happen. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.080 So you need to isolate somebody. That's the first thing. 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.680 That's the first thing that needs happened. Okay, So let's 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.800 talk about it. Basically, there's three main phases in that 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.280 that Lifton figured out, the Communists carried out. Can I 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:26.240 Sam do it? It's breaking down the self step one, 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.000 introducing the possibility of salvation part two, and rebuilding the 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.360 self part three. Yeah, and I'm not going to make 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.520 any comments about my Baptist upbringing in relation to brainwatching, 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.160 I swear, because I would not want to get listener mail. 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.920 Yeah you might just from that one, but we won't 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.640 go there. Um. So check. Let's talk about breaking down 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.800 the self. What's the first step. Well, it's it's basically 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.720 just a constant attack. And we're going to talk about 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.439 this in terms of just for the sake of ease 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.360 um of a military type situation, like you've got a 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:00.600 swetcher that you've captured. Yeah, this the one that's been 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.120 proven to actually work in you're not a military prisoner 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.760 of war torture. So basically that's when it's you know, 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.880 you're you're not defending your freedom, you're not doing anything good, 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.240 You're not a man, you're not a soldier. It's just 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:17.880 a constant verbal assault on the senses, breaking you down right, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.280 and you're actually saying you're not what you think you are. 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.280 Like Chuck, if I wanted to brainwash you, I would 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:26.600 start with Chuck, you're not a hipster. You are not 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.680 a hipster. Chuck, I am not a hipster. G exactly. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.120 Now we're getting started. Now. What I would also do 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.920 right now would be to isolate you. As we mentioned, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:41.320 I would probably perform Filenga on you, which is what 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.520 do you think it is? I would perform Philenga on you. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:49.840 It sounds like something involving beads and sticks in oils 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.360 and stuff. No, actually it does involve sticks bamboo canes. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.839 It's actually beating the the soles of the feet with 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:02.760 bamboo canes. Hurts like you would not believe bet believe me. Um. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.200 And actually, also this this isolation thing, one of my 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.120 friends told me um about. I guess he's found it 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.200 in like the Kubark Manual, which I've yet to see it. Um. 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.360 But it's called birthday party. And if you're trying to 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.040 disorient somebody or or break their their grip on reality, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:19.960 one of the things you could do is, you know, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.079 you're you're assaulting them. Verbally, you're attacking them, and then 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.480 all of a sudden in the middle, everybody comes in 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.160 wearing birthday hats with a cake, and you celebrate this 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.480 guy's birthday and everybody's hanging out talking, eating cake, you know, 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.840 kind of fraternizing with the with the target and um. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.079 Then all of a sudden, everybody leaves the parties over 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.680 and then you get back to business of torturing them. 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.640 And it completely throws them off. Yeah, because they're you're 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.679 you're assaulting them. And then the next thing they know 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.160 that you're like, they're celebrating your birthday and it's not 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.840 even your birthday, so like you have no idea what's 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:53.480 going on any longer. What you're trying to do is 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.920 disorient the person. So once you start to become disoriented, 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.719 you are start you begin to lose your grip on reality, right, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:02.880 And once that happens, you move in with the guilt, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.000 telling him that what they're doing is actually very bad 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.720 and uh, their mission is bad and they're evil, and 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.800 you send that kind of thing like I would tell you, Chuck, Chuck, 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.920 you are not a hipster and you should feel poorly 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.200 about the state of your goateee. How long have you 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:25.000 worked on this? This is off the cuff, Okay. So 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.839 now I'm beginning to slip further into your the palm 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.200 of your hand, Josh, And now you are going to 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:35.400 move in at me with self betrayal. And that's basically 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.439 when I need to agree that I'm bad. So I'm 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.200 starting to lose it to the point where I'm starting 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.160 to say, yes, I am bad. So you you you 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.760 do feel your goatee is shoddy, right, and you would 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.560 force me to say that, and you may force me 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.520 to denounce my my friends and their goatees and my 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.199 family and their goateees. Right. Yeah. Once you start denouncing 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.680 things that that you hold dear, all of a sudden, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:04.000 you're en these on the brink of crisis, which brings 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.439 us to the breaking point, right, And that's when you're 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.400 totally at their whim. Who am I where am I? 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.640 What should I do? Right? And and you're you're just 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.280 completely lost any faith that you've ever had in your gotee. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.520 You may be sobbing uncontrollably. You've reached what we would 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.040 call a nervous breakdown. You become unhinged, and you have 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.240 lost your grip on reality, which, as Laton put it, 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.480 your identity is up for grabs. You're you're literally a 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.280 man without an identity. You have nothing that you attach 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.240 yourself to any longer. So now that I'm broken down, dude, 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.320 that's the breakdown of the cell. You have broken me 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:37.960 down to the point where I don't even know which 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.960 way is up. That then you come in with a 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.000 little good cop bad cop and you offer a little 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.679 bit of leniency. I might give you some water, you're 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:47.839 some water, I can help you out, or you're feeling 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.680 even a breaking the torture and me saying I don't 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.320 want to hurt you or something like that. Small, small 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.600 gestures just become amplified in this situation. So now you 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.200 have offered me sip of your energy, inc And Josh, 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.320 I'm that's the most kind gesture anyone's ever paid to me. 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.400 To give me that energy drink. I'm indebted to you 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.040 for showing mercy on me. Sure. Yeah, well, you know 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.200 that's leniency, Chuck, And um, it's the first step of 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.440 the possibility of salvation phase, right, and that leads us 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:22.320 into compulsion. So what I'm gonna do now, Chuck, is 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.960 uh tell you that by confessing that you were wrong 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.280 and wanting to be a hipster, thinking that you were 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:32.800 a hipster, you were wrong in liking your goatee. Um, 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.839 you can stop feeling the psychological and physical pain, right, 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:38.840 you can stop feeling this guilt and the shame that 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:44.640 I've cultivated in you. I have a razor right over here, right, yeah, yeah, right, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.640 so which leads us to the channeling of guilt. Right. So, 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.360 You've got this guilt and the shame that I've created, 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.520 and you, by this point, you because you've entered the 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.240 nervous breakdown phase, you have no idea what you're really 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.880 feeling guilty or shameful about and meaning behind it, but 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.880 you feel it constantly and overwhelmingly. Right. So I'm now 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.400 going to give you that that way to get rid 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.480 of your guilt, right, you attach it to something which 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.320 is your old belief system, my old belief system, which 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.680 is my goatee and my hipster presence. Now I'm actually thinking, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.320 you know what that is? Where why I'm at where 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.760 I'm at today? It was because of that goatee and 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.600 me thinking I'm a hipster, right, and in your family's 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.280 goatees and all that stuff. Everything problem, Josh, sure, now 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.760 here is a razor and Chuck, it's time for the 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.320 releasing of guilt. You shave your goateee, well, because you 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.560 tell me it's not it's not my fault. Essentially, It's like, 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.600 it's not you, Chuck, it's it's your belief set. Hey, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.240 who's doing the brainwashing here? Maybe I'm doing a reverse 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:53.360 brainwashed twist. No you're not, okay, okay, So Chuck, um, 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.400 you're gonna denounce your goatee. You're gonna denounce your hipster 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.880 past and your family. You have to actually say it. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.560 This is how you and gain control of your life again. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.840 I hate my goatee. It's a stupid thing on my face, 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.560 and I don't know why I grew it to begin with, 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.760 because it's not it's it's not even a quarter of 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:14.040 a beard. I feel like an idiot for having this gotee. 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.120 Chuck is stupid music I listened to and those dumb tattoos. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.360 I know. It's okay, Okay, Sorry, we've reached the end 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.960 of the possibility of salvation and now, Chuck, we've actually 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.360 entered salvation. We've entered the rebuilding of the self phase. Okay, 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.400 you are broken down, you're nothing now, and now it's 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.280 time for me to build you back up into what 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:39.640 I want you to be, which is a preppy. Okay, okay, okay, So, Chuck, um, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.920 I want you to say, now that you've consciously abandoned 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.520 your old belief system, that you realize that this new 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.680 belief system, being a preppy is the greatest thing on 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.600 the planet. It's what you're meant to do. Well, Josh, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:54.360 it is what I was meant to do, because being 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.160 a preppy is clearly the style and fashion sense that 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.680 I've always craved. Had no idea, and Chuck, because that 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:04.800 this is what you're supposed to be. You really didn't 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.400 betray anybody else right in your old belief system and 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.720 by denouncing your family, because that was wrong all along. Okay, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.240 do you promise, I do promise, Chuck. Now Here, Chuck, 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.360 I want you to take this Argyll sweater. You know, 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:19.800 don't put it on. Don't put it on. I want 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.760 you to drape the arms over your shoulders and I 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.360 rub my face on it. In a minute, okay, I 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.440 want you to take the cuffs of the sweater and 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.440 roll them together so that now you have this sweater 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.200 over your shoulders and it won't fall off because the 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.080 sleeves are attached. Now, are you trying to make me 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.120 a preppy? Or are you trying to send me back 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.360 in time to Chuck? I'm I'm in control here, okay. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.720 So I've been isolated for months. You don't, You're You're 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.920 just grateful I have an Argyle sweater for you. I 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.120 am thank you for the sweater. It warms my chest, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.480 all right? So, Chuck um, are you consciously choosing this 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.600 new belief system prepputom? I do choose prepputom. Are you 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.840 prepared to eat an alligator? I am prepared to eat 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.280 an alligator? Do you want penny loafers more more than 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.320 you've ever wanted anything in your life with pennies in them? 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.680 We'll get you pennies later, but first, do you want 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.440 these penny loafers? I want the penny loafer. Shosh, Chuck, 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.280 you are reborn. You are now a preppy. I have 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.080 broken you down from a hipster and rebuilt you into 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.439 a preppy and you're better off because of it. Wow, 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.080 where did my goot go? Yeah? You look good, Chuck, 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.040 My face is all fat. No, it looks good. I mean, 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.199 we'll work on that a little bit. Sure, but we 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.920 gotta get your tan first. Nice little bit of role playing, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.480 your josh. So it all makes sense to me when 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.359 you look at those steps, you break someone down and 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.679 then you offer him a grain of bread, you know, 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.199 a morsel, and then you gain their trust and then 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.760 you rebuild them. And when you look at these cults 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.720 and uh not not the prison of Ward in this case, 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.120 but when you go the cults and some of these 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.040 people that may be involved, they may be to that 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.520 breakdown stage you know already. Yeah, I went to Actually 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.320 I hate this. This is like if I could cut 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.560 parts of my brain out, I would cut this memory out. 0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:59.760 What you do? I went to a weekend long New 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.720 Way Age convention and dude, it was rough. I was 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.440 walking around just like you. People will buy into anything, 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.720 and it wasn't that. It wasn't like I just scoffed 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.080 at their beliefs or or you know, the people who 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.360 are peddling these beliefs. I just thought it was said 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.080 that these people were walking around looking for anything to 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.640 attach themselves to, anything that they could define themselves with. 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:28.240 And we're completely abandoning any thought of creating their own identity, right, 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:29.960 they had to attach it to something else. And it's 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.320 it's clearly it's not just New Age people. You can 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.920 make the case that it's anybody who uses something as 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:40.400 a crutch, whether it's you know, church or whatever. Right. Um, 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.320 but yeah, this this one particularly stuck out in my head, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.840 this new age convention. So um apparently and check this 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.119 is why I could never actually brainwash you. Uh. It 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.479 works better on some people than on others. People who 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.840 have a weak sense of identity, um, which you definitely 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:58.840 do not. If you have a tendency to show to 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.760 be guilty as or feel guilty, which you definitely do not. 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.760 And absolutism black and white thinking, which and self doubt 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.359 and self doubt. Yeah you've got none of those, dude. 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.480 No one could brainwash me. I know you. You get 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.200 a thick skull. Not not you, not anyone here watching 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.399 I definitely tend toward guilt and slash your face. How 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.320 how I just committed violence? Yeah you did, Chuck, So, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:28.479 Josh can't they can't study brainwashing, clearly, they can't actually 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.640 perform this in a laboratory on someone because that would 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.479 be wrong. Right, But thanks to lift In, we have this, 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.000 we know how it works, and actually soldiers are still 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:41.040 to this day trained to yeah, how to recognize the 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.320 steps in brainwashing, which immediately takes away most of the 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:48.680 power of the brainwasher, and also how to detach themselves 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:52.120 from the situation. Yeah, I would think in meditative techniques 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.280 and things like that. Just me personally, if I was 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.840 in the Korean War, let's say back then, and I 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.479 had a Korean captor yelling at me and probably broken 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.879 English breaking me down, I would I don't. I mean, 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:05.800 I guess when there's torture involved, it's a different story. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.879 But I would be like, dude, you're not brainwashing me 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.119 with that acts any kidding, right, you know? And I 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.320 wouldn't on the poorly conjugated verbs and things like that. Yeah, 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.439 well that's what one of the techniques to avoid it is. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.639 They teach you to focus on on certain details and 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.639 things like that or details of home and to not 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.760 buy into all this stuff. Yeah, and they said people who, um, 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.280 who believe in the higher power apparently are much harder 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:36.520 to brainwash, which strikes me that yeah interesting. Yeah, so, um, 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.080 I've got another thing for you. You're ready, I'm ready. 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:43.720 Meant a side? No idea? Another word for brainwashing? Oh 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.200 is it interesting? And that? What's the route there? Ment 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:52.439 it's minty fresh aside, it's good, I guess mental mentality. 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.639 It's the breakdown of the person's identity or belief system, 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.160 which you know is lodged happily in this little camp 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.240 ground in your brain. And so the side part, you know, 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.560 murder brainwashing. You took a lot out of me, chuck, 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.080 did it? I'm sorry. You look like you're you're whipped. 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.840 Like you look like you're whipped like Lee Boyd malvo 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.000 Let's hear it. Well, there's just a couple of famous 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.920 incidences of brainwashing. One was Patty Hurst in the seventies 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.240 when she was of the famous First Family was kidnapped 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:29.240 by the Sibionese Liberation Army and she claimed to be 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.320 brainwashed when she was robbing banks and that you set 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.560 in her defense and she actually was convicted. She was 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:40.240 in seventy six. Her sentence was commuted by Carter. She 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.040 was pardoned by Jimmy Carter in seventy nine and then 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.399 cast by John Waters in many films. Yeah, that's right, 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.800 wasn't she. Yeah, she's in movies. I forgot about that. 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.439 Do you know who one of her greatest proponents was 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.359 that John Wayne? Oh? Yeah, And actually that's one of 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.280 the reasons why her sentence was commuted by by Carter 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.600 was because John Wayne was such a a vocal advocate 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:06.480 on her behalf and because of the Jonestown tragedy. After 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.320