WEBVTT - Restoring Balance and Productivity with Attention

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. Just looking at chapter six

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<v Speaker 1>of this book that we're going to talk about in

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<v Speaker 1>just a moment. It begins with before smartphones were introduced.

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<v Speaker 1>To do a digital detox, all I needed to do

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<v Speaker 1>was stay at my mother in law's house as she

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<v Speaker 1>did not have WiFi. Like we are such a connected world?

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<v Speaker 1>Column what a few years ago, gosh in the last

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<v Speaker 1>decade about how I loved flying because there was no

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<v Speaker 1>WiFi and I could just completely disconnect from everything. So

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<v Speaker 1>now you just like it when WiFi doesn't Then this

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<v Speaker 1>week you're last week we hear from you know, Delta,

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<v Speaker 1>that free WiFi for everyone, Right, I agree. I used

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<v Speaker 1>to feel like the plane was the place where nobody

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<v Speaker 1>could touch me. Well, how many times, everybody do you

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<v Speaker 1>sit down to do something only to be distracted by

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<v Speaker 1>the ping of your phone. You pick it up, you

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<v Speaker 1>look at the text. The next thing, Tim, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're on Instagram watching videos of airplanes taking off and

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<v Speaker 1>landing and forty minutes has passed. That's you. That's exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what I do. And guess what that thing that I

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<v Speaker 1>sat down to do. I never did it all right, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the subject of a new book, attention Span.

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<v Speaker 1>Finding a Focus and Fighting Distraction, is by Dr Gloria Mark.

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<v Speaker 1>She's Chancellor's Professor of Informatics at the University of California, California.

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<v Speaker 1>Excuse me at Irvine. She joins us now via zoom

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<v Speaker 1>zoom from Irvine, California. I'm not distracted. I just can't

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<v Speaker 1>speak on this Tuesday. Uh, Dr Mark, good to have

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<v Speaker 1>you here. Congratulation, congratulations on the book. I do feel

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<v Speaker 1>like we are living in a world of distractions, which

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<v Speaker 1>is why I try to start my day with no sounds,

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<v Speaker 1>no nothing, and just kind of some peace because the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the day there's so much coming at us. UM, welcome, welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell us about your book, Attention Span. So thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much for having me. Uh So, you know, basically,

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<v Speaker 1>this this work. The book is a culmination of about

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<v Speaker 1>twenty years of research that I've been doing looking at

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<v Speaker 1>how people interact with their devices. And one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things I note is, and even started with myself, uh

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<v Speaker 1>that my own attention was started to be dwindling when

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<v Speaker 1>I was using my devices. I started, uh measuring people's

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<v Speaker 1>attention span using their computers and then later when smartphones

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<v Speaker 1>came out UM since UM around two thousand four, and

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<v Speaker 1>I find that the attention spans have diminished. Back in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand four, we measured them about two and a

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<v Speaker 1>half minutes on average. The last five or six years

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<v Speaker 1>it's been about forty seven seconds on average, and others

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<v Speaker 1>have what does that mean? Forty seven seconds? What is

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<v Speaker 1>the average attention span? Yes, this means that on any screen, computer, tablet, phone,

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<v Speaker 1>an average of forty seven seconds is what we see. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember it's an average. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more.

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<v Speaker 1>The median, which is the midpoint, is forty seconds. That

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<v Speaker 1>means half of all of our observations showed attention to

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<v Speaker 1>be less than forty seconds. Well, I have to say,

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<v Speaker 1>when we're working on putting something out on social if

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<v Speaker 1>we do anything that's like they're like no, no, no no,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seconds or like thirty seconds, Like you've got to

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<v Speaker 1>be really short, uh and fast. At the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I think about the streaming services. We have

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<v Speaker 1>more and more content and more and more series, and

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<v Speaker 1>we have more and more documentaries that are longer. So

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<v Speaker 1>help me get my head around it. Where people are

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<v Speaker 1>watching for long periods of time they are and and again, um,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to emphasize that this is an average. So yes,

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<v Speaker 1>people can spend you know, long periods of time. You

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<v Speaker 1>can just be you know, engulfed in in some video

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<v Speaker 1>for a longer period of time. But what we also

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<v Speaker 1>see is that people are shifting their attention rapidly. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>this is when they're not watching videos and uh, you

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<v Speaker 1>know they're not watching TV and film and uh, this

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<v Speaker 1>is you know, I I describe this as a kinetic

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<v Speaker 1>attention kinetic dynamic kind of behavior that we see. So

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<v Speaker 1>have have our brains or do our brains change as

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<v Speaker 1>a result of all the stimuli that we have in

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<v Speaker 1>our environment? Well, there there's some research that suggests that

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<v Speaker 1>there there could be some changes to our brain. What

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<v Speaker 1>what I can say is that there are changes to

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<v Speaker 1>our behavior, to our attention behaviors. And and that's uh

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<v Speaker 1>something that we can you know, empirically measure and show.

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<v Speaker 1>We also show that there's a relationship between this fast

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<v Speaker 1>attention shifting and an increase in stress. So okay, how

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<v Speaker 1>about behavior change? Because I want to know how I

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<v Speaker 1>can and I noticed this. I just sometimes I'll delete

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<v Speaker 1>Twitter from my phone because I know I'm spending too

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<v Speaker 1>much time on it. Even though the app is no

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<v Speaker 1>longer on my phone, sometimes I'll still open up my

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<v Speaker 1>phone instinctively when I'm like on an escalator in an

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<v Speaker 1>elevator or something, and then try to find Twitter, even

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<v Speaker 1>though I know it's not there. It's like a reflex

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<v Speaker 1>format sickness. Please please help me, doctor. Yeah, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>a muscle memory. I mean, you know, when you do

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<v Speaker 1>something for a long time, it becomes a habit. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>So there, you know. And I want to emphasize that

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<v Speaker 1>we we tend to blame notifications for you know, this

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<v Speaker 1>is the reason why we're distracted, but it's just as

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<v Speaker 1>likely for people to interrupt themselves. So about half the

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<v Speaker 1>time people we are our worst interrupters. Uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not we can't just blame it on things

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<v Speaker 1>that are external to us. Children as young as two

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<v Speaker 1>to four years old already average two and a half

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<v Speaker 1>hours of screen time a day, and it soon climbs

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<v Speaker 1>to an average of three hours and five minutes for

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<v Speaker 1>ages five to eight. Uh. Foundation from multitasking laid at

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<v Speaker 1>the very youngest of ages. Remember when multitasking um dr

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<v Speaker 1>mark was considered a good thing, but you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>research shows that it's not. There's actually it's actually research

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<v Speaker 1>that's been going on for decades that shows that when

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<v Speaker 1>people switch their attention two different tasks. We know that

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<v Speaker 1>blood pressure goes up. There are physiological markers that indicate

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<v Speaker 1>stress that show this this goes up as well. We

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<v Speaker 1>know my own research looking at people in the wild

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<v Speaker 1>where they wore heart rate monitors. We find that stress

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<v Speaker 1>goes up when people are switching their attention, and people

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<v Speaker 1>report subjectively that their stress is higher. So all these

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<v Speaker 1>measures are consistent. So I guess I want to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to this idea of retraining ourselves and thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>how we can be more productive. Because there's this idea

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<v Speaker 1>that we're so productive because we're connected and we can

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<v Speaker 1>always access our emails or contacts our tasks. But there's

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<v Speaker 1>also this idea that if you know, hey, you retrain

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<v Speaker 1>yourself to be more focused on these things and you

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<v Speaker 1>actually sit there, you get that task done, you're more productive.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do we find focus and fight distraction? Which

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<v Speaker 1>is the subtitle of your book. Yes, so I think

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<v Speaker 1>that we need to do work on different levels there.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there are individual solutions, there are also collective

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<v Speaker 1>solutions that could be done at an organizational level or

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<v Speaker 1>even societal level. At an individual level, I think that

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<v Speaker 1>we can draw in the work of Albert band Or.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a very famous social psychologist who had a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of success in getting people to improve their self effocacy.

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<v Speaker 1>They could change, they could stop smoking, stop substance abuse,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think there are certain principles that could be

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<v Speaker 1>applied to help us, you know, control our attention better.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, we have so many automatic actions. We we

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<v Speaker 1>grab our phones, which check em we check social media.

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<v Speaker 1>These are done automatically. If we can become more intentional

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<v Speaker 1>in our behavior so we can make these unconscious behaviors

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<v Speaker 1>more conscious then, you know, and we can understand the

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<v Speaker 1>reasons why we're doing them, then it gives us a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to be able to gain control over them. If

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<v Speaker 1>we don't do that and just got about forty five seconds,

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<v Speaker 1>what's the risk. The risk is we continue switching our attention,

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<v Speaker 1>creating stress, you know, even exhaustion live in it. I

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<v Speaker 1>will say that I will sometimes just not look at

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<v Speaker 1>my messages when I've got to get something done and

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<v Speaker 1>just focus on it, and then people will be like,

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<v Speaker 1>why aren't you answering your messages? And I'm like, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>trying to get something done. I think the reflective part

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<v Speaker 1>is something that you know, I really have to be

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<v Speaker 1>intentional about. Yeah. Absolutely, Our thanks to Dr Gloria Mark,

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<v Speaker 1>Chancellor's professor of informatics at University of California, Irvine, her

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<v Speaker 1>new book Attention Span, Finding Focus and Finding Distraction. We

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<v Speaker 1>thank her for her time today