WEBVTT - Voguing Goes Global 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.040 But We Loved is a production of iHeart Podcasts and 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:06.199 the Outspoken podcast Network. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.399 I think the most difficult moment for me during that 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:16.479 time was living in an apartment with a closet full 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:22.880 of designer clothes, no furniture, and then going out and 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:27.560 trying to try to cop, trying to cop, and so 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:31.720 I couldn't afford a couch, but I could afford hope. 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.560 And there in lives that sad part right making these 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:40.320 choices of do I buy furniture for my apartment or 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:47.120 do I buy heroin? And the latter unfortunately one. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:55.200 For a long time, as a gay kid, growing up 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.440 religious and in the South, I thought being gay was 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.880 the worst thing I could ever be. Now, as a journalist, 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:06.000 I'm trying to unlearn that by seeking out our history, 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:12.280 and what I've found are people and stories full of courage, perseverance, 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:17.720 and love. In this episode, we'll meet Louise Camacho Extravaganza, 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.319 one of the choreographers of Madonna's music video Vogue. We'll 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.000 learn how his choreography for her would go on to 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.440 influence generations of queer life and pop culture, and how 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.600 the fame he was quickly thrust into came with a 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.240 Dark Side from My Heart podcast. I'm Jordan and Solve 0:01:37.000 --> 0:02:05.520 and this is what we loved. I have this theory 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.800 that every time a gay man hears the nineteen ninety 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:14.519 song Vogue by Madonna is when he has his gay awakening. 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.200 I think I was in the eighth grade when I 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.400 had mine, and I first heard it. The music just 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.840 spoke to my soul. Ooh when that bass hits, do 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:30.480 doo doo, doo doo doo, It's so good. And when 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.720 I saw the video, my mouth was on the ground. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.399 The way these men were moving their bodies in all 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.000 the ways I would have been mercilessly bullied for here 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:48.720 they were confidently striking a pose. I was too young 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.720 to have the language to describe how I felt, but 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:59.120 now I know it was queer self expression, unabashed and unashamed. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.600 My next guest, Luise Camacho Extravaganza, was one of the 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.760 choreographers of that music video that, by many accounts, brought 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:12.440 voguing from the underground ballroom scene into the mainstream. His 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:17.040 work with Madonna would change the world, but much before then, 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.160 from the time he was a little boy, he knew 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:28.280 that he was destined to be a star. Louise, you 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:34.040 are a globally known dancer now and very famous for 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:39.000 popularizing this incredible art form, voguing. But I wonder was 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:43.440 that always your dream and aspiration as a child. Did 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:44.760 you always want to be a dancer. 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.000 I don't know if I always wanted to be a dancer. 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.440 When I was in front of the mirror, you know, 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:59.320 with my hairbrush for a microphone and a towel wrapped 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.600 around my head, I thought I was going to be like, 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.720 I don't know, boy George or Michael Jackson or something 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:11.520 like that, something that was of show right, of show business. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.680 And I didn't know if it was going to be 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.440 dance or not. But I had a lot of energy 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:23.599 which my mom saw and to kind of like rein 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:29.840 it in, she put me in a boy's movement class, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.600 which wasn't really a dance class per se. It was 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:37.080 more like, let's get the energy out of these voices 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.960 bodies and then that way the parents can take them 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.960 home and won't be bouncing off the walls. So it 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.880 was literally run across the room, roll, you know, roll around, jump, 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.919 you know, things like that. And so the teacher, his 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:58.000 name was Frank Ashley, and he had a little dance company, 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:03.480 a little junior dance company apparently saw a natural talent 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:08.560 in me and asked that I come back for another class. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:14.680 Eventually it turned into me going to dance classes like 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:15.839 four times a week. 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:22.760 Well, what was the moment that you sort of knew 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:27.360 that you loved dancing and you loved expressing yourself through 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:28.400 moving your body. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.080 I think it was probably the first time I ever 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:38.320 performed on stage with the little junior dance group and 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.479 the lights hit and they put a little outfit on me, 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.240 and I just loved that. I loved I love the 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.480 light that shines on me. I loved that the audience 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:54.440 was in the dark, and it was almost like I 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.279 was back in my room by myself. And at the end, 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.880 just the applause and looking side to side at the 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:08.320 other people performing with me, that we kind of did 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:13.160 something together and we projected this idea, this art form 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.960 that people really liked. Was I just think it was 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:19.120 a life changer for me. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.960 Well, fast forwarding a little bit, now, tell me about 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.000 when you first knew you were gay and how you 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.080 came out to your parents and your family. 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:38.480 I probably first knew I was gay when I went 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:44.480 into high school. I didn't really know what gay or 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.880 being gay was. And then I get to high school 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.880 and it was the high school performing arts. For me, 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.880 it was like oh, entering the big leagues. Like I 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.760 didn't know any of these people, and I was alone 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.840 and we were in the locker room about to like 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.800 go into our first dance classes and one of the 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.600 older a junior I think he was a junior at 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.760 the time, he came in and he looks us over 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:16.480 and he goes, okay, uh, you you and you you'll 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.280 be hanging out with us because you're gay. The rest 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:22.880 of around straight, so fuck y'all buy And we were like, okay. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:28.400 I mean he was brash and bold, and he obviously. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:30.440 Moved he read you. 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:32.960 I just like the fact that he wanted us to 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.120 kind of hang out with them or you know what's 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:38.240 like with his group. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:46.520 Well, so you have become so famous for bringing voguing 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.240 to the world stage by all of the work that 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.480 you've done, especially with Madonna, But how did you first 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.320 get into voguing? Tell me that story. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.440 It was that guy. He was He was the one 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.360 that you do used us to the houses and. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.280 The balls, and the guy who had sort of. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:12.600 He was. He was also a dancer and so you know, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.080 he was sassy. And after school we played a game 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.840 called red Light green Light Vogue, which is like red 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.640 light green light one, two three, and instead of like 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.080 you know, freezing before you got to the person to 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.040 tag them out, you hit a pose. So the main 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.080 person would turn around, he would say red light green 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.360 Light Vogue and we would try to run towards him, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.120 and then when he turned around, we would strike a pose. 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.640 And when we were trying to you know, establish or 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:48.560 kind of cultivate our little voguing style, we integrated our 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.200 technical dance moves into the voging style. So that's what 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:58.840 sort of set us apart from the guys that were 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:06.199 vote at the time because we injected our classical training 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.600 into vogue to make it our own. That was my 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:16.079 introduction to voguing. It was my introduction to the ballroom 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:17.160 house culture. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.040 What's the story of the first time that you went 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:21.760 to a ball? 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.200 So the first time I went to a ball was 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:27.520 a Paris's Burning ball. 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:28.520 Wow. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:34.040 Yes, And it was in Harlem at the Elks Lodge 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.760 in Harlem. If you've ever seen pos and you look 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.439 at the inside of where they do the balls. It 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:45.000 was almost exact replica. Building was really really old and 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:49.920 it looked like a miniature version of what used to 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:54.120 be like an opera house, right, And so it was. 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.240 The first floor was just a wood floor with tables 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:03.719 and chairs on either side, with a dance floor if 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.880 you will, in the middle, and if you're looking towards 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.600 the back, there was a stage. And then if you 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.120 walk towards the stage and turn around, you'll see that 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.360 there was a second floor and it was a U 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.840 shaped balcony that went all the way around with tables 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.120 and chairs on top of that as well. You smell 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.160 the wood floor when you go in. It's smelled. 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.000 And what did the people look like when you got there? 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:35.240 Two people looked like beautiful exotic birds. To me, it 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:45.040 was this plethora of beautifully adorned beings, which really really 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:49.600 fascinated me because I know most of them didn't look 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.360 like that when they were in the daytime. Right. The 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:58.040 drag queens were in sequins and in feathers and you 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.920 know big you know hairdoes and hats and wow, it 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.600 was just like Carnival and it was just a parade 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:12.360 of really beautifully dressed people because they were trying to, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.040 you know, outdo each other, trying to put their best 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:24.680 foot forward and trying to emulate a lifestyle that wasn't 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.439 our own in the daytime. A lot of them were 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.520 also sex workers, and so there was a cross section 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:38.120 of a lot of people who could project this other 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:43.160 level of being at night and in the ballroom and 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.880 not get judged by it, and to live out that 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:52.120 other life in the ballroom and be regalled for it. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:57.000 I Love the Ballroom was founded in the late nineteen 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.760 sixties as a response to white drag ball being rigged 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:05.040 against black and brown queens. Ballroom was their opportunity to 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.280 create their own world where they were the stars. Because 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:14.120 of stigma, conventional job opportunities weren't often available to these queens, 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.360 so many were low income or pushed into sex work 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:25.520 for survival. Voguing was about aspiration. Ballroom dancers wanted to 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:29.679 emulate the persona, the confidence, and the fame of the 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:34.160 models on the covers of Vogue magazine. They dreamed of 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:39.000 seeing themselves on the cover, wearing expensive designer clothes and 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:44.760 striking a pose. The balls were also competitions chosen families 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.600 or houses would compete or walk in all kinds of 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.240 categories for prestige that would reward the best voger, the 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.720 best model, the best dressed, and so on. Louise competed 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.199 that first night he attended a ball, but it wasn't 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.160 for voguing. It was for drag. He had also just 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.839 officially become part of the House of Extravaganza and they 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:07.720 wanted him to win. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:14.040 My first category was not vogue. My first category was 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.240 witch cleanup and drag, which grew up and drag is, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.679 I mean, to put it lightly, is just a regular 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.959 guy getting up in drag and trying to pass as 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:27.560 a girl. Because one day I went to school for 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:32.120 Halloween as one of the cheerleaders. It was just a floppy, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.040 curly wig that I got from somewhere and the school uniform. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.400 I don't even think I was tucked at the time, 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.920 and you know, I put eyeliner, Metscara and lipstick and 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.400 it was I was good to go. That was my 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:49.360 first category that I ever walked at a ball was 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.280 between and drag. It was like work, bitch, and all 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:57.520 this energy around and I was just looking around like, wow, 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:03.200 this is like perfect chaos. Because it was chaos. It 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:09.400 was like like I had always been there that first ball. 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.680 First of all, my sister came with me to the 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.480 ball because I needed to use her as an excuse 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.440 to get out of the house, even though she's younger 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:24.280 than me. But our father picked us up from the 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:30.760 ball and he came in, and thank goodness, I was 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.120 already done with my category and had changed back into 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.040 my boy clothes and stuff like that. I did not, 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.160 quote unquote like my dad growing up, because you know, 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.000 he would tell me boys don't bounce balls that way, 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.400 or a boy is don't hold their books that way, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:52.480 or boys don't stand that way. You know. He was 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.960 just trying to toughen me up just a little bit. 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.960 And yeah, he picked us up and took us home, 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.160 and we were not in trouble. What's interesting is I 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:10.080 didn't know why he didn't, you know, bring down the 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:15.280 gauntlet on us, and I never understood. I think my 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:20.520 first time is my favorite memory. Every time I think 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.440 of the ballrooms, I think of the first time that 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.600 I was at that Paris ball, I really do, because 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.920 it was like chaotic, It was, you know, the stars 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:34.840 a lot like I don't know. It was this moment 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.240 that when you draw the curtain and you walk through 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:43.600 and you know this other world and is before you, 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.760 and you feel comfortable in that world. I didn't even 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:48.680 feel scared. 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.880 Louise had just competed in his first ball and he 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:05.000 had even won a category. More importantly, he was now 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.920 officially a member of the House of Extravaganza. He and 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.880 his friend Jose Extravaganza, who he went to high school 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.920 with and who he competed in balls with, honed their 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:19.200 voguing technique and they practiced at the balls. They began 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.840 performing all over New York and around the world. Although 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:28.160 voguing was gaining popularity within the gay community, it was 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.680 still relatively unknown to the mainstream. But Madonna heard about 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.280 the dance and she wrote a song about it in 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.880 nineteen ninety. She began thinking about the music video and 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.600 she wanted real voguers from the ballroom scene in it. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:48.760 The video would change Louise's life and the world. So 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:54.000 it's the late eighties and voguing is still relatively underground, 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.800 and at the same time, Madonna has pretty much become 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.880 the biggest pop star on the planet. What is the 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.160 story of how you met her and how you became 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:06.000 her dancer. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:10.800 Madonna also was a club kid. I'll start there, because 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.680 she just wasn't a person who kind of walked in 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:18.040 from nowhere and said I want to record a song 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:24.480 about voguing. Now. She frequented the clubs, and so when 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:30.080 she recorded Vogue, it was a natural progression for her 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:36.000 and she wanted voguers. And her friend, Debbie Mazar, who 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.359 the actress today, was her makeup artist at the time. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.640 And Debbie goes, let me introduce you to the House 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:49.440 of Extravaganza. It was like six degrees of separation. Debbie's 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:55.360 friend who was friends with my friend's boyfriend, and they 0:17:55.359 --> 0:18:00.760 were all hairdressers, and so she wanted she wanted to 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.639 meet us, and we went to Tracks, which is the 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.720 club that David the Pinos spun at in the middle 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.240 of the day and he started playing music. They opened 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.800 up the doors, and you know, we were kind of 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.600 just voguing, and then a limousine pulls up and out 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.600 pops Madonna. And the first thing I said to myself, 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:24.280 I was like, oh my god, she is tiny, little, 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:28.119 tiny girl. And so she came into the club and 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.080 she sat down and she was like what you got, 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.560 and we were like all right, and we just started 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.840 freaking going off and voguing, and she was like, this 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.320 is awesome. And before she left, she was like, hey, 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.200 you guys want to hang out tonight. I was like, yeah, 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.840 you want to hang out with us tonight? I know 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.199 when you're hanging out Madonna, but we're hanging out here. 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.439 She's like, okay, I'll go with y'all. Everybody started just 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.879 performing for her, and she sat on the speaker and 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.600 I stood in between her legs, and you know, we 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.639 would just vibing that way, and I don't know, we 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:08.160 just grew close. And that's how that's how our love 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.760 of you know, our love of Madonna and started. Wow. 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:19.800 Well, you and Jose Extravaganza choreographed Madonna's video for Vogue. 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:24.199 It is something people often say is one of the 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:29.080 greatest music videos of all time. What was your favorite 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.000 memory of that whole music video experience. 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:42.040 It was the wardrobe. What was exciting was getting to 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.720 the soundstage and getting into hair and makeup, trying on 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.880 these beautiful clothes, and all the clothes were go ta 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.520 and and so even though we and Jose were trying 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.080 to keep our cool about the whole thing, like it 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.359 was exciting for us because we knew that this was 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.040 a turning point. I mean it was a real life 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:11.160 video shoot with production, and I mean it was like, okay, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.840 so we are now playing with the big dogs. And 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.560 that whole process of watching all of these departments come 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:26.959 together to produce this imagery and this video was really 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.600 the high point of that whole video experience for us. 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.159 How did you feel that day when you walked on 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:39.040 set and there was just all of this incredible production 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:43.640 and resource and money put behind something that you were 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.080 leading God, you know I felt, I. 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:52.520 Mean, the little boy Lewis inside was like, yes, this 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.840 is it. I'm never going back ever again, you know. 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.240 And but of course I had to like tell myself, 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.320 rain that shit in, bitch, because you have a job 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.399 to do and if you want to keep doing what 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.119 you're doing for a long time, then you can't. You know, 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.879 you got to be professional. I had to rise to 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.560 this occasion, even though I was giddy inside and I 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.040 felt like, this is it. This is what I this 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.440 is what all the years in front of the mirror 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:25.800 fantasy about and being a person that wanted to entertain others. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.880 This is it. It has all culmulated you know has 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:32.399 been brought to this point. 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.240 Shortly after the video came out, Vogue became the number 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.719 one song all around the world. Madonna was about to 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:43.520 embark on one of the biggest moments of her career, 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.840 a world tour to support the song and the album 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.800 it was on. The show would be called the Blonde 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:54.680 Ambition Tour. It would become wildly successful and make Madonna 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:59.200 the second biggest touring act in history behind Michael Jackson. 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.280 Louise was asked to join as a dancer. Madonna documented 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:07.760 the tour in a groundbreaking film called Truth or Dare, 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.879 which Louise was prominently featured in. The show and the 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.800 documentary are widely credited for introducing queer life to the 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:21.639 mainstream openly and unapologetically. At the time it became the 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:27.200 highest grossing documentary ever made, Louise had just turned twenty 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.760 years old. The fame he was emulating in his voguing 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:34.879 on the ballroom stage was now a reality on the 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:40.480 world stage. Well. In nineteen ninety, Vogue becomes the number 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:44.119 one song in America and really around the world. You 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:48.119 end up going on this wildly successful world tour with 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:53.879 Madonna starring in her groundbreaking documentary Truth or Dare. Everyone 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:57.200 around the world is voguing in nineteen ninety, But what 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:01.879 was the moment that you realized voguing had become so 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:07.080 much bigger than what you were doing during Red Light 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:08.280 Green Light Vogue. 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.720 I never really got the graphatas of what we were 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:19.600 doing and being our true authentic self until one day 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:24.600 a mom came up to me. A mom came up 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:29.679 to me after the show, and she said to me 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:36.200 that she had a son, and she brought her son 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:40.679 to the Blande Division tour. There were many years before 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:49.080 that moment her son suffered, and she was just thanking 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:53.920 us that we were just being ourselves and that her 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:59.720 son could see himself in us and thus be himself 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:04.560 and be free of whatever constraints he had within himself 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.840 that he was locking away. And at that moment, you know, 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.920 I knew that this was something that was way beyond 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:19.280 not only myself, but it went beyond voting right, It 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:25.080 went beyond you know, hitting some fabulous pose. It really 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.680 vibrated out to a lot of guys and girls who 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:33.760 were unable to really express themselves because they didn't really 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.560 have an outlet to do. 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:40.920 So, wow, what was your favorite memory on that life 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:41.680 changing tour? 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.080 We were in Chicago because my father is from Chicago. 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:48.879 So I flew my father and my sister to Chicago, 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:52.239 and you know, I got them a hotel room and 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:54.239 I rented him a limo so that way he can 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:56.520 see his family, So that way he can have this 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.600 little moment of you know, my son is fear said, 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.119 you know this is and I'm pulling up on you. 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:06.880 It'll it's very cute. But he took us to meet 0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:11.880 my uncle, Raffie. And when my uncle answered the door, 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:18.400 I immediately knew why. I immediately knew why my father 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:24.720 was unfazed because my uncle answered the door had longer hair, 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:29.119 he had long fingernails, and so his brother was a 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:32.480 drag queen and performed in clubs. And when he looked 0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:36.240 at me, it was there was that look like, oh, 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:41.159 I get it, I get it. I looked at my 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:43.919 dad in different light From then on, it was and 0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:47.120 we grew so close after that, and it was all 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:50.959 unspoken too. It was all unspoken, and that night I 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:56.040 just cried. I cried because I got it. He just 0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:58.600 probably didn't want me to go through what his brother 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:02.320 went through, or he wanted to toughen me up so 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:07.720 that way I can survive like his brother survived. 0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.880 I wonder what it was like for you to go 0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:18.200 from dancing in school and dancing in the Balls underground 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:23.200 in New York to then being thrust onto the global 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:28.760 stage so quickly. You were about twenty years old at 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:31.320 the time. What was that like for you? 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:38.679 I mean, without sounding too kind of like egotistical or facetious, 0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:47.479 it felt natural, Jordan, It really did. It felt like, oh, yeah, 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:51.120 I'm supposed to be here, and I always go back 0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:53.639 to that image of myself in front of the mirror 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:58.520 in my bedroom, you know, with a hair brush in 0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:02.880 my hand and a towel for wig, and like that 0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:05.919 little boy made it all the way here. 0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:11.480 After the tour ended, life wasn't so easy for Louise 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:14.879 and the other dancers. The backdrop of this time period 0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:19.560 was the AIDS crisis. By nineteen ninety one, hundred thousand 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:24.399 Americans had already died. Shortly after the tour, one of 0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:28.640 the dancers died from AIDS related complications, two others were 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:34.040 diagnosed with HIV. Being so young, Louise was dealing with 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:38.119 a lot his community, the ballroom scene, and the dance 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:42.720 family he made on the tour was dying. In addition, 0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:46.120 he didn't know how to process the end of the tour, 0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:50.240 the intense high and the adrenaline that would come from 0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:55.480 night after night of screaming fans. When it ended, all 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:59.040 of the hype was over and he was thrust back 0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:02.560 into the reality of his life. He turned to drugs 0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:07.080 to cope. We've talked about a lot of the positives 0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:14.119 around how you had come to this moment, this amazing moment, 0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:19.280 But what were some of the negative consequences of achieving 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:21.440 this fame so quickly. 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:27.600 A lot of people saying that Madonna had used us 0:28:28.400 --> 0:28:35.239 for our talent, and then personally, you know, it was 0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:45.160 a wild ride and and so that included drinking and 0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:48.960 for me, and I'm only speaking for myself, you know, 0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:52.280