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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics. Well,

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Speaker 1: we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's

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Speaker 1: best minds.

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Speaker 2: And Governor Wall says he's sick and tired of hearing

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Speaker 2: about thoughts and prayers. We have a star studded show

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Speaker 2: for you today. Lever News founder David Sirota Stupspy to

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Speaker 2: talk to us about his podcast The master Plan, which

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Speaker 2: is my personal favorite documentary podcast I've heard in a

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Speaker 2: long time. David details how the right mapped out legalizing

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Speaker 2: corruption through the Supreme Court. And this is really just

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Speaker 2: such an amazing podcast that we'll talk to Yale professor

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Speaker 2: Jason Staley about his new book, Racing History, how fascists

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Speaker 2: rewrite the past to control the future. But first we

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Speaker 2: have the host of the Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project's

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Speaker 2: own Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 1: What the fuck is going on? Rick Wilson?

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Speaker 3: Well, I believe it was what the Mayans predicted to

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Speaker 3: be the apocalyptic end times, where rains of fire and

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Speaker 3: blood will fall from the sky.

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Speaker 1: No, look, welcome to Mayans. So early in the election

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Speaker 1: cycle was sixty.

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Speaker 3: Days to go. You know, Look, here's the thing. We

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Speaker 3: had another week where the media was the zone got

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Speaker 3: so flooded. Even well intentioned media folks could not keep

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Speaker 3: up with crazy bullshit from Trump. It will never cease

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Speaker 3: to amaze me how capable he is of changing the

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Speaker 3: subject so rapidly, not always deliberately sometimes it's inadverton, but

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Speaker 3: of changing the subjection so rapidly and leading to such chaos.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, we had things this week that would

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Speaker 3: have been disqualifying for a presidential candidate.

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Speaker 1: Another week talking about childcare is childcare or something?

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Speaker 3: Falter yourself care? And all the things we're going to

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Speaker 3: do to make it so big, bigger than anyone ever thought.

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Speaker 1: Was the were tarriffs are going to fun childcare? How

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Speaker 1: would that even work?

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Speaker 3: He is rapidly breaking down, rapidly decompensating. Is not mentally

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Speaker 3: all there, you know when he's out there ranting that

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Speaker 3: Egene Carol isn't the chosen one, and it was an

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Speaker 3: ai image of right that was amazing that press conference.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry I heard for ten eleven, twelve months that

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Speaker 3: any slip or stutter or verbal bump that Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: had was a side of his imminent dementia and Parkinson

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Speaker 3: sweeping over him and killing him instantly, and with Trump,

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Speaker 3: we get ten of those things a week now. I

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Speaker 3: had a conversation with somebody last night. It was like,

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Speaker 3: we're good, We're a really competent report, Like, oh.

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Speaker 1: Tell us who because you're at the trip fest, so

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Speaker 1: tell us who.

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Speaker 4: Ah.

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Speaker 3: No, no, that was off the record, but they're like,

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Speaker 3: we're trying to keep up. We have so much time

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Speaker 3: and bandwidth every day to write this stuff, and we're

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Speaker 3: trying to keep up. And it's the combination of the

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Speaker 3: newsiness of it and the bullshit of Trump's craziness. It

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Speaker 3: has added up to this very ugly, kind of like

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Speaker 3: dead end a lot of the time, I think.

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Speaker 1: But I would also add that they don't want to

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Speaker 1: look partisan, and if you call out how crazy Trump is,

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Speaker 1: you look partisan because it's so crazy.

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Speaker 3: That's the problem with defining devianc down. The craziest aspects

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Speaker 3: of Trump now are. I don't want to say the

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Speaker 3: media is defending them, but the way they're processing them

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Speaker 3: is because they are afraid of having a Fox News

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Speaker 3: fact checkers. There's a fucking line for you that just

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Speaker 3: you should melt your brain, you know, so that they're

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Speaker 3: being unfair. They're biased against Donald Trump and blah blah blah,

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Speaker 3: and it's such a load of horseshit, and yet simultaneously

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Speaker 3: it has And the argument that was made to me

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Speaker 3: last night also was the processes of editorial and writing

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Speaker 3: do not keep up with Trump's latest insanity. By the

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Speaker 3: time one insanity is being reported, another insanity has occurred.

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Speaker 3: It was a legitimate, I think point. But the thing is,

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Speaker 3: I think the insanity itself needs to be the center

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Speaker 3: of a lot more.

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Speaker 1: Reporting, right, no question.

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Speaker 3: You know. I made that case because there's a lot

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Speaker 3: to the question of Trump's mental stability. I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: this as a campaign line or anything else. I honestly

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Speaker 3: believe Donald Trump is mentally ill.

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Speaker 1: He was mentally ill in twenty sixteen, but in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen he could, you know, get on a plane and

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Speaker 1: read a prompter. That is no longer than Trump.

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Speaker 3: We know Trump in twenty sixteen still had his physicality

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Speaker 3: and his energy level overcame the mental illness in the

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Speaker 3: minds of most voters. In twenty twenty, it was a

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Speaker 3: different election because of COVID and everything else. Although he

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Speaker 3: was slipping in twenty really the decline and fall. The

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Speaker 3: other day I was looking for a video clip, and

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Speaker 3: I found something from December of twenty two where he

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Speaker 3: really seemed off and it was weird how off he was.

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Speaker 3: And I think this gets worse every day. I don't

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Speaker 3: think it's ever going to get any better. And where

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Speaker 3: along for the ride, unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that I think is interesting.

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Speaker 1: You are at trip Fest. At trip Fest and popular

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Speaker 1: Democratic boogeyman, your friend Dick Cheney. I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: Dick Cheney because I was thinking about my grandfather, Howard

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Speaker 1: Fast wrote about one hundred columns about Dick Cheney and

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Speaker 1: how evil he was. So Dick Cheney is voting for

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Speaker 1: Vice President Harris discuss.

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Speaker 3: I'm here with my fellow noted liberal extremists, Judge, Letgig,

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Speaker 3: Liz Cheney. You know all of us are deeply embedded

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Speaker 3: in the antifa movement.

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Speaker 1: That's right. All you want is to sign the er.

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Speaker 3: All I want is to nationalize the means of production

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Speaker 3: and usher in the worker's paradise. You know, the usual

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Speaker 3: stuff as one does in the conservative movement.

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Speaker 1: Minimum basic income for all.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I can't wait to have a national string of

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Speaker 3: collective farms. But yesterday Liz Cheney, echoing what she had

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Speaker 3: said at Duke University earlier in the week, came out

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Speaker 3: and said I am voting for Kamala Harris. She said

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Speaker 3: it again yesterday and articulated it further than she had

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Speaker 3: at Duke, blew the audience way by saying, oh, and

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Speaker 3: by the way, Dick Cheney is voting for Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 1: What was the room like at that moment? Were you there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we were there. Utterly exploded cuckoo town. I mean,

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Speaker 3: people could not believe it. And I have to tell you,

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Speaker 3: the second it started breaking out on Twitter, long defunct

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Speaker 3: text chains of old bushies were like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, my phone was melting for hours of people,

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Speaker 3: you know, who've been sort of waiting for the damn

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Speaker 3: to break a little further. And there are a lot

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Speaker 3: left of the people that are in this category. If

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Speaker 3: anyone wants to argue that Liz and Dick Cheney are not, again,

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Speaker 3: dear listeners, whether you agree with this or not, they

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Speaker 3: are impeccably credentialed conservatives of the First Law. And I

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Speaker 3: will tell you one of the things I picked up

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Speaker 3: very quickly was just how freaked out and pissed off

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Speaker 3: Trump world was because they recognized you can't make Dick

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Speaker 3: Cheney into like antifoot Dick. You can't make it right

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Speaker 3: right the golden Black Lives Matter. It's not gonna work.

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Speaker 1: No. Now, I mean, I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that Dick Cheney is not involved

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Speaker 1: in Black Lives Matter, as much as that would be amazing.

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Speaker 3: You can see the shift where a tack vector on

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Speaker 3: Cheney is he's a warmonger who will help continue the

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Speaker 3: war in Ukraine against our friends the Russians.

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Speaker 1: We didn't talk about Tenant Media the last time, and

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Speaker 1: we were on the podcast Tenant Media. All the worst

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Speaker 1: people on the internet worked for Tenant Media. Laurence Southern,

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Speaker 1: Bennie Johnson, Tim Poole, Beanie Guy, and Dave Rubin. That

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Speaker 1: crew is all. Now we have seen in this big

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Speaker 1: federal indictment they were being paid hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: dollars by the Kremlin. Discuss and there are more people

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Speaker 1: in the indictment. There are more unnamed people.

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Speaker 3: Let's make three points really clear. This is one of

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Speaker 3: many indictments we had. We saw another one against Dimitri

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Speaker 3: Sions earlier this week. We also saw an FBI raid

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Speaker 3: on Scott Ritter.

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Speaker 1: Who's Scott Ritterer.

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Speaker 3: Scott Rider is a former United Nations Arms inspector, former

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Speaker 3: Army captain I believe, who was later arrested for pedophilia

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Speaker 3: and child rape and then got out of prison and

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Speaker 3: became a Russian apologist. Oh wow, so you've got these folks.

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Speaker 3: These are these four people and folks. Molly and I

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Speaker 3: are in the content creation world. Okay, you should know

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Speaker 3: we have the creators of the content. We make a

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Speaker 3: lot of it. They were being paid for hundred thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars a month, just as we are here on the right.

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Speaker 1: Four. We actually make four million dollars a month. Hi. Sorry, Mary,

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Speaker 1: We're doing this podcast from my helicopter.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm in space on the International Space take which

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Speaker 3: I have heard. No, they were being paid four hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars a month each each to produce pro putin videos.

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Speaker 1: Unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: There was one particular video that's made the rounds of

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Speaker 3: this week. We'll find it if you look for it.

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Speaker 3: It's about Timpoole and he is attacking Ukraine like a

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Speaker 3: rabid dog, like a crazy wall. The Ukrainians have no

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Speaker 3: right to the sacred province of Kursk and he was

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Speaker 3: literally reading the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs talking points

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Speaker 3: on the air Live wall Line.

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Speaker 1: My favorite was Ben Shapiro's defense of them, which was like,

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Speaker 1: how could they have known?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know, Molly. If a strange guy claiming

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Speaker 3: to be a Belgian billionaire who does doesn't appear on

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Speaker 3: the internet anywhere when he searched for him, named Edward Gregorian,

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Speaker 3: if he comes to you and says, by the way,

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Speaker 3: I'd like to pay you forty thousand dollars a month

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Speaker 3: to do pro putin videos on your website, on your channel,

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Speaker 3: and you don't say to him, really, why pro putin videos?

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Speaker 3: Where's the money coming from? I mean, inferentially a fucking

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Speaker 3: toaster of and could figure out that this was Russian money.

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Speaker 3: The stupidest person, and I mean even Benny Johnson, who

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Speaker 3: was a low wattage plagiarizing shit ard, should be able

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Speaker 3: to figure And by the way, if you want to guys,

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Speaker 3: want to ever laugh your ass off, Benny Johnson is

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Speaker 3: such a weak dick that when he worked at BuzzFeed

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Speaker 3: he was plagiarizing wells.

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Speaker 1: Lots, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. No. He's famous for his plagiarism.

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Speaker 1: I do think that's right. I also think we still

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Speaker 1: have more people in this indictment. And also just the

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Speaker 1: defense that they were so stupid that they didn't know

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Speaker 1: what was happening, I think is not really plausible.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.

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Speaker 1: But I do think it's interesting that Bennie Johnson and

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Speaker 1: Temple did this much more. But Timple's whole thing was

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Speaker 1: we're going to do civil war. So right, we're going

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Speaker 1: to do civil war. Well, it turns out that that

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Speaker 1: we're going to do civil war message is the Kremlins message? Correct? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's important.

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Speaker 3: We're near a civil war. Civil war is coming. The

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Speaker 3: libtards have forced us into a civil war.

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Speaker 1: We want to hear the most cursed text ever. Jesse

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Speaker 1: just sent me.

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Speaker 3: Do it?

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Speaker 1: What about Rand Paul?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so let's not forget Rand Paul's chief guy, Jesse Benton,

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Speaker 3: is presently in jail because Jesse Benton was involved in

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Speaker 3: a weird Russian information operation in which he was paid

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Speaker 3: in fucking bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Right, bitcoin, you'll remember bitcoin as something that is financing

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's presidential run.

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Speaker 3: There's an entire pro Russia faction in the GOP right now,

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Speaker 3: and we got.

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Speaker 1: To talk about Mike lay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the story did not offend them. This story left

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Speaker 3: him going like, well, where's a my four hundred thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars of them? Well, that's my grandma would say, why

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Speaker 3: by the cow when the milk is free? But they

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Speaker 3: bought the cow. They bought These people, they knew what

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Speaker 3: they were doing. There is nothing on God's green Earth

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Speaker 3: that will convince me that these people, when they're producing

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Speaker 3: pro Russia videos that are overtly pro pudent, overtly anti Ukraine,

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Speaker 3: overtly anti American, that these people had no clue. Are

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Speaker 3: you telling me you can't figure it out if you're

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Speaker 3: being asked to read the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs talking

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Speaker 3: points about the Battle of Kursk, fuck out?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think also when you talk about this

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Speaker 1: Tenet Media story, it's important to remember that these were

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Speaker 1: the people that Elon Musk interacted with more than anything.

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Speaker 3: He retweeted Tenet Media or ten There were the Tenet

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Speaker 3: media players something like three hundred times. I read the other.

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Speaker 1: Day, and Elon Musk sits on a pile of government contracts,

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Speaker 1: He controls half of the world satellites. He is a

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Speaker 1: major national security player, and he is also a fleet

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Speaker 1: believer in Russian propaganda.

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Speaker 3: He takes it hook line and sinker. And you know,

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Speaker 3: the greatest conceit on the right is I'm just an independent,

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Speaker 3: critical thinker. I'm just looking at the banks and the data.

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Speaker 3: In fact, you're not looking at the facts of the data.

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Speaker 3: You're looking at Vladimir Putin's ass while you're kissing it.

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Speaker 3: These people, I mean, the more they echo this stuff,

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Speaker 3: the better for me. Honestly, because we've identified an awful

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Speaker 3: lot of Republican voters out there who grew up in

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Speaker 3: the Cold War. They have boomers, exers, and even early

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Speaker 3: millennials who remember Red Dawn the documentary. Don They remember

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Speaker 3: Red Dawn, They remember the Cold War, they remember the

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Speaker 3: Wall coming down, they remember that the Russians and Putin

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Speaker 3: are the fucking bad guys. And the more this cognitive

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Speaker 3: dissonance sort of splits them apart from what the Trump

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Speaker 3: people have absolutely had their dicks in, it is astounding

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Speaker 3: just how bad it's going to be for them. I

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Speaker 3: think this is going to end up being one of

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Speaker 3: these stories. It's going to keep unfolding. You know, well,

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Speaker 3: you and I have not exactly been Merrick Carlin's biggest cheerleaders.

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Speaker 1: At least he did.

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Speaker 3: It looks like they're actually doing this. Finally, I think

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Speaker 3: it's remarkable.

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Speaker 1: Well, and it must be so much evidence that he

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Speaker 1: can't possibly put it off because we know Merrick Garland

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Speaker 1: and he's conflict avoidant.

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Speaker 3: Eric Donland went to wake over with the mariego how

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Speaker 3: am I going to cause trouble merrek lonaland wakes up

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Speaker 3: in the Marigo's How can I be as invisible as possible?

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Speaker 1: I mean I didn't know he was still working there. Well, Merek,

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Speaker 1: what Jesse wants us to talk about? Dmitri Simes? Who

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Speaker 1: the fuck is that?

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Speaker 3: Dmitri the other guy who was indicted this week. He

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Speaker 3: is part of the Rampaul network. As we've talked about

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Speaker 3: a few minutes ago. Dmitri is a guy who's been

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Speaker 3: on Channel one, one of the Russian propaganda channels, and

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Speaker 3: he has been somebody who's been out there taking the

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Speaker 3: absolutely pro Russian position on Ukraine. Ukraine is the sacred

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Speaker 3: motherland of Russia and it must be destroyed. Zelenski is

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Speaker 3: a puppet of.

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Speaker 1: The Jewish Nazi.

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Speaker 3: He's a Jewish Nazi. I was just.

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Speaker 1: As they say, exactly.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, look, and I mean there's a really key

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Speaker 3: line in the main indictment of the tenant indictment. That

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Speaker 3: key line is the first sentence that these people were

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Speaker 3: working for RT, which is a Russian government controlled propaganda channel,

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Speaker 3: and for personal reasons that will hopefully become apparent on Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: That line is super important for me. But I'll let

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Speaker 3: you know more like next week about it.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, this is not fair.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you later.

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Speaker 1: Are you fucking better? We're going to hit one other

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Speaker 1: thing now, which is Nate Silver.

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Speaker 3: Must we Yes? What are we going to hit him with?

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Speaker 5: Is the question?

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Speaker 1: Because as the polling averages have gotten better and better

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Speaker 1: for the Vice President, Nate Silver has decided that they're

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Speaker 1: not better, and in fact she is losing to Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: What is his methodology?

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Speaker 3: Besides his methodology, from what I can tell, is that

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Speaker 3: Peter Thiele is running the polymarket site and Nate's making

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Speaker 3: a pile off of that. I think Nate also, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to give Nate a little fraction of grace here.

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Speaker 3: I also think that there is some PTSD from twenty

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Speaker 3: sixteen with Nate's ever gotten over. Maybe that's it. I

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Speaker 3: can't really understand it, because every professional who's looking at

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Speaker 3: these numbers and looking at the electoral college pathways and

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Speaker 3: the mechanics and the mathematics of these pathways, this is

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Speaker 3: in a steadily improving picture for Vice President Harris. It

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Speaker 3: is a darkening cloud for Donald Trump. You know, Look,

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Speaker 3: they pulled out this week, as you know, of New Hampshire, Virginia,

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Speaker 3: and Minnesota. Those are not the top tier gettable states,

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Speaker 3: but they thought all of them were gettable. They thought

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Speaker 3: New Hampshire was very gettable. Those three are dead. Now

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Speaker 3: they're running out of money. The polling in the states

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Speaker 3: is moving in the wrong direction for them. The next

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Speaker 3: tranch of states they were looking at right now to

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Speaker 3: pull out of whatever one they choose of the three

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Speaker 3: or four that are in contention, which are like what

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Speaker 3: North Carolina. Yeah, now they're going to have to put

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Speaker 3: money into Florida. Now. They don't think they're going to

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Speaker 3: lose Florida, but it's getting close enough where they're freaking out.

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Speaker 1: And Florida's expensive.

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Speaker 3: Florida has ten of the top thirty media markets in

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Speaker 3: the country. It's very expensive and running out of money.

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Speaker 3: He spent thirty one million dollars more than he raised

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Speaker 3: last month.

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Speaker 1: Those spending numbers show that Trump is spending a lot

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Speaker 1: less than Harris. But isn't it true that there are

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Speaker 1: dark money packs that are not included in those buys?

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent? There are many dark money packs that

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Speaker 3: are out there. However, they are not sufficiently drawing off

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Speaker 3: to counterbalance what Harris and the Democratic super PACs are

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Speaker 3: doing right now. They're not in the same financial tier

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Speaker 3: as the overall Harris plus Democratic superPAC era.

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Speaker 1: But what about like Elon?

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Speaker 3: Elon hasn't given any money. It was bullshit. Like many

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Speaker 3: things from Elon, you'll be surprised to hear he was

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Speaker 3: full of shit.

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Speaker 1: What about the America Pack? And Rick explained to us

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Speaker 1: who is funding it and what it looks like.

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Speaker 3: There are a number of Trump super packs that are

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Speaker 3: out there, but one consistent through line of every single

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Speaker 3: Trump super pack is that they're running your money through

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Speaker 3: Trump related entities and enterprises. So you'll find in a

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Speaker 3: lot of them American made media, and that is a

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Speaker 3: Trump family super pac controlled by Jared Kushner and Brad Parscal.

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Speaker 3: Last time I checked, that takes an enormous skim off

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Speaker 3: the top of every dollar they spend, so maybe fifty

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Speaker 3: sixty cents of every dollar does not go to persuade voters.

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Speaker 3: It goes back to fund the Trump family and the

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Speaker 3: Trump enterprises. Look, this is the most successful business Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump has ever had, by in order of magnitude.

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Speaker 1: Just like Pat you can. And he's figured out that

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Speaker 1: running for president is a good business.

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Speaker 3: Trump likes to improvise, Okay, he likes to make ups.

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Speaker 3: Yet he likes to run and gun, and so that

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Speaker 3: makes it hard for him to run a real campaign

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Speaker 3: where he's doing big dollar donor fundraising all that. He

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Speaker 3: hates all that shit. But these super packs allow individual donors.

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Speaker 3: Heyre writ two million dollar check right in the a

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Speaker 3: million dollars a year, right, he did this and that,

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Speaker 3: and you know what that shit it's dark money. It

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Speaker 3: is hidden away. They've also built all these LLCs that

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Speaker 3: are like Wyoming LLC's managed through Delaware with poking in

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Speaker 3: the Cayman Isle. All this bullshit, right, but.

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Speaker 1: It's also Trump World funneling the money. You get the

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Speaker 1: least bang for the buck.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's like a race car where you know, you

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Speaker 3: fill it up with gas and I hope it's going

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Speaker 3: to go five hundred miles, but the first thing you

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Speaker 3: do is somebody takes out, you know, half of the

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Speaker 3: gas in the tank.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, Rick Wilson, You are welcome.

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Speaker 2: We have even more tour dates for you. Did you

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Speaker 2: know the Linkeodn projects. Rick Wilson have Fast Politics BOLEI

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Speaker 2: jug Fast are heading out on tour to bring you

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Speaker 2: a night of laughs for our dark political landscape. Join

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Speaker 2: us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the

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Speaker 2: Swedish American Hall, or in la on August twenty seventh

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Speaker 2: at the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest.

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Speaker 2: We'll be at the Bavarium in Milwaukee on the twenty

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Speaker 2: first of September, and on the twenty second we'll be

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Speaker 2: in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit

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Speaker 2: the East coast. On September thirtieth, we'll be in Boston

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Speaker 2: at Arts at the Armory. On the first of October,

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Speaker 2: we'll be in Affiliates City Winery, and then DC on

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Speaker 2: the second at the Miracle Theater. And today we just

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Speaker 2: announced that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth

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Speaker 2: of October at City Winery. If you need to laugh

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Speaker 2: as we get through this election and hopefully never hear

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Speaker 2: from a guy who lives in a golf club again,

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Speaker 2: we got you covered. Join us in our surprise guests

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Speaker 2: to help you laugh instead of cry your way through

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Speaker 2: this election season and give you the inside analysis of

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Speaker 2: what's really going on right now. Buy your tickets now

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Speaker 2: by heading to Politics as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics

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Speaker 2: as Unusual dot bio. David Serota is the founder of

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Speaker 2: lever News, the creator of the podcast The Masterplin, and

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Speaker 2: screenplay author of Don't Look Up.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Too Fast Politics.

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Speaker 5: Dave Serota, thank you, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Jesse and I's obsession are these kind of stories, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we did something on Project twenty twenty five

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Speaker 1: on YouTube which was like an interviews here and this

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Speaker 1: just is like an endless topic that is like informs

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Speaker 1: everything around us. So explain to us how you came

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Speaker 1: to this project. You know, let's start there.

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Speaker 5: So Master Plan traces the fifty year history of how

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Speaker 5: corruption was legalized in America and it connects directly to

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Speaker 5: Project twenty twenty five because one of the organizations and

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Speaker 5: funders that began part of this Master plan is the

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Speaker 5: sponsor of the organization, is the sponsor of what we

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Speaker 5: now know as Project twenty twenty five. So the story

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Speaker 5: starts in and around the time of Watergate, as so

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Speaker 5: many things do, and Watergate, as we trace in our podcast,

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Speaker 5: Watergate was actually people know about the break in, et cetera,

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Speaker 5: et cetera. It was actually the first major campaign finance

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Speaker 5: scandal of the late twentieth century in that it was

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Speaker 5: funded in part by illegal, secret corporate donations. I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's sort of the first version of dark money, where

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Speaker 5: we're talking about brand name corporations American Airlines and the

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Speaker 5: like funding the break in.

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Speaker 1: American Airlinese.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, American Airlines was one of the major corporations that

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Speaker 5: put secretly large sums of money into Richard Nixon's slush fund,

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Speaker 5: and it was ultimately American Airlines and its executives were

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Speaker 5: prosecuted for that by the Watergate prosecutors. It's something that

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Speaker 5: I think people don't really know now.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, It's like I mean, when I started reporting this,

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Speaker 5: I was kind of blown away. And that's one of

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Speaker 5: many corporations that was prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: Like Benny Johnson didn't know that he was getting four

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars from Russia or didn't. No, I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 5: Go on, sorry, Right, So, I think a lot of

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Speaker 5: people also know that that after Watergate there were these

436
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 5: campaign finance reforms that were supposed to clean up Washington.

437
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 5: These are the modern campaign finance laws that Gerald Ford signed.

438
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: And that Citizens United ended effectively.

439
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 5: Correct. Right, So what happens is at the roughly this

440
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 5: same time, a guy named Lewis Powell, who was the

441
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 5: head of the American Bar Association, a tobacco industry lawyer,

442
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 5: kind of pinnacle of the establishment. He writes this memo

443
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 5: to the Chamber of Commerce in which he lays out

444
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 5: a case that corporate America is under attack, that the

445
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 5: ralph Naders of the world are winning too many things.

446
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 5: I mean, this is the era you know, where Medicare, Medicaid,

447
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 5: the EPA, all this stuff is passing. And he says,

448
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 5: you know, corporations need to go on the attack, and

449
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 5: really the government has become too democratically responsive. The corporations

450
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 5: have to focus on taking over the courts and building

451
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 5: a movement to take over the government. And one of

452
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 5: their focuses is deregulating the campaign finance system and effectively

453
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 5: gutting the anti corruption, anti bribery laws. And so in

454
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 5: those post Watergate reforms were some loopholes that actually created

455
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 5: the what we now know to be the corporate Political

456
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 5: Action Committee. There was an explosion of these corporate packs

457
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 5: because of these loopholes. And what also came out of

458
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 5: this movement at the time was the push to enshrine

459
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 5: a radical theory into law, which was money and politics

460
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 5: isn't corruption. Money in politics is constitutionally protected speech. So

461
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 5: the Buckley v. Valo case comes out of this era.

462
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 5: By the way, Buckley, that radical idea was masterminded by

463
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 5: none other than you cannot make this up John Bolton,

464
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 5: the same John Bolton.

465
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: I mean that continues to be. One of the truly

466
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: amazing things about this whole story is and it's all

467
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: the same people again and again and again, and it's like,

468
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: not even is it all the same people. It's like

469
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: my grandpa was jailed by the House on an American

470
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 1: Activities Howard Fast by the Roy you know, Roy Cohen

471
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: worked for that and later trained Donald Trump.

472
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 5: We have a term for this, We call it the

473
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 5: master Plan cinematic universe. These same people Robert Bork, John Bolton.

474
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 5: I mean, these are the they just keep popping up.

475
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 5: Here's the thing, after they enshrine, you know, money isn't corruption,

476
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 5: money is free speech. Lewis Powell, the guy who wrote

477
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 5: that memo, he ends up on the Supreme Court and

478
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 5: he soon after creates a ruling that says corporations are

479
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 5: entitled to those same free speech rights to spend in

480
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 5: an unlimited fashion on elections, which is the basis becomes

481
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 5: the basis for the citizens United decisions. So the point

482
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 5: here is the deregulated campaign finance system, the Supreme Court

483
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 5: gutting the anti bribery laws in this country. This is

484
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 5: not a force of nature, It's not an inevitability. The

485
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 5: master planners, essentially corporations and oligarchs did this on purpose.

486
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 5: They knew that they could not win the policies they

487
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 5: want in a one person, one vote, functioning democracy, so

488
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 5: they knew they had to have ways legally to use

489
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 5: their money to rig that process.

490
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's important to point out that

491
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: Republicans still basically feel this way that the Supreme Court

492
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: right now is making decisions. Like when you're talking, all

493
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: I can think of is that the Supreme Court this

494
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: year made a decision which said that you can bribe

495
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: a politician if you're not being clear about exactly what

496
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: you want.

497
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 5: I read that ruling as almost even worse, like I

498
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 5: think you've almost understated it, which is basically like a

499
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 5: politician can do a favor for a donor as long

500
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 5: as the donor gives them the money afterwards, as like

501
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 5: a gratuity. It's like, if you just sequence the money correctly,

502
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 5: it's all fine. And to be clear, the Supreme Court

503
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 5: did this. I think a lot of people didn't mention

504
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 5: this when that ruling came out. The Supreme Court did

505
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 5: this when the Supreme Court has people on the court

506
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 5: who are taking gifts from the people whose cases they're overseeing.

507
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: This last Supreme Court session, I thought a few cases

508
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: were like, see, we're not that bad, and then everything

509
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: else was like, let's set the table.

510
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 5: For our guy, Donald Trump yep, one hundred percent.

511
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: Well.

512
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 5: I think John Roberts, who we report a lot about

513
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 5: in Master Plan, I believe in the idea that he

514
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 5: has this theory that the court will accept a set

515
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 5: of cases that are like even more insane than they're

516
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 5: willing to accept so that they make a show out

517
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 5: of voting them down, to make the like other crazy

518
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 5: ones that they're going to put through seem like that

519
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 5: they're moderate or moderate. I mean that's the moving of

520
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 5: the Overton window for sure.

521
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: By the way, Gorsag Cavanaugh, I mean, these people have

522
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: all you know, Gorsich's mother was in the EPA under.

523
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 5: Nixon Master Plan Cinematic Universe.

524
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

525
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: But the other thing I was going to say was

526
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: I feel like what we see in this world again

527
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: and again is that the eleventh circuit really sets them

528
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: up for this. You know, there's a circuit that's so

529
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: crazy they will take anything.

530
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the fifth circuit down in Texas as well. Yeah,

531
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 5: this is all part of a plan. It's not an inevitability.

532
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 5: And look, I think you can look back to the

533
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 5: nineteen seventies when the conservative movement was essentially out of power,

534
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 5: and you can look back now and say, wow, they

535
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 5: really had a vision. And the interesting thing is, as

536
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 5: we document in our podcast, is that they wrote a

537
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 5: lot of it down. I mean we found never before

538
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 5: seen documents about this. I mean we have a document.

539
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 5: Let me just give you an example where Gerald Ford

540
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 5: is literally being flown into Disney World for a meeting

541
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 5: about how to implement Lewis Powell's memo, and months later

542
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 5: Gerald Ford is then the president who's signing those loopholes

543
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 5: in the campaign finance laws, signing them into law. And

544
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 5: so the point is is not to be You know,

545
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 5: sometimes I feel like I sound like the guy from

546
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 5: It's Always Sonny in Philadelphia at the whiteboard, like a

547
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 5: crazy person, like how much expira? But like they wrote

548
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 5: it all down, it's all documented, it's all they did

549
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: it all, and they said they were doing it all well.

550
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: And I also think we constantly doubt ourselves. But like

551
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: Merret Garland, who again I would like to criticize more

552
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: than I do, but because of his inability to hold

553
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: anyone accountable. But he did announce yesterday that like three

554
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: of the biggest Trump YouTubers are actually willingly or unwittingly

555
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: either as bad take you money from Russia so for

556
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: their pro Trump views. So like, if you occupy reality,

557
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: none of this should be all that shocker.

558
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 5: No, And what we've allowed to happen is we've created

559
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 5: a system where money buys our politics, buys the political discourse.

560
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 5: And what I worry about here is that we're now

561
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 5: so immersed in this culture of corruption that we've become

562
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 5: desensitized to it that we've simply accepted it as supposedly.

563
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 5: It's no longer corruption, it's just what politics is. And

564
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 5: the truth is that's not the way it has to be.

565
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 5: I think back to I think a lot of people

566
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 5: can't even remember this era, but the late nineties early

567
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 5: two thousands, where John McCain decided to make campaign finance

568
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 5: and corruption a major national issue, and I think people

569
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 5: forget that His first major set of political headlines in

570
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 5: his career was he got burned in a corruption scandal,

571
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 5: the Keating five scandal, where he was one of the

572
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 5: five senators who was pressuring a federal banking regulator, and

573
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 5: out of that he came to the campaign finance cause

574
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 5: with the zeal of a convert. And my point in

575
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 5: bringing this up is, yes, you can name any corruption

576
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 5: scandal from today's headlines, this week's headlines and say, you know,

577
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 5: this is just what politics is and there's nothing to

578
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 5: be done about it. But in my lifetime, I can

579
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 5: remember when political leaders said, you know what, this is

580
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 5: not okay, even Republicans, and you know, it's interesting one

581
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 5: of his aides tells us in the podcast, you know,

582
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 5: we told him that nobody would really care about corruption.

583
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 5: It wasn't going to be a salient issue in the election,

584
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 5: and McCain ignored us and proved us wrong. He went in,

585
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 5: you know, he campaigned in that primary, and part of

586
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 5: the way he won New Hampshire, the major way was

587
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 5: was on this anti corruption platform. And so the question

588
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 5: is where is that politics now? It feels like it's gone.

589
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agreed, and will be so interesting

590
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: to see. By the way, if Trump wins an American democracy,

591
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: he dies, that'll be sad for all of us. But

592
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: if Trump loses and American democracy survives, which I think

593
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: is a possibility, a real possibility, it'll be interesting to see.

594
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: You know, if there's any interest in the Republican Party

595
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: rejecting some of these larger authoritarianism. I want you to

596
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: talk about how the sort of baby authoritarianism of the

597
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: seventies begets this larger authority, because this is all the

598
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: road to Trump.

599
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean one hundred percent. Let me give you

600
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 5: an example. We talked about Project twenty twenty five. So

601
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 5: the Powell Memo is written one of the people who

602
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 5: says that he was inspired to become politically active because

603
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 5: of the Powell Memo is a guy named Joe Cores

604
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 5: from out here. I'm coming to you from Denver, Colorado.

605
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 5: Out here in Colorado, and Joe Cors provides the seed

606
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 5: funding for what became the Heritage Foundation. The Heritage Foundation

607
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 5: in all of this organizing legal you know, the conservative

608
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 5: movement is building a legal movement, it's building a political

609
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 5: organization for elections. The Heritage Foundation carves out its role

610
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 5: as the policy machine for this movement, and it decides

611
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 5: that one of the ways it can be most effective

612
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 5: is to produce this Mandate for Leadership Series. That's what

613
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 5: they called it, and it's a detailed agenda for Republican presidents.

614
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 5: And if that sounds familiar, that's because Project twenty twenty

615
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 5: five is the ninth iteration of the Mandate for Leadership Series,

616
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 5: and the Mandate for Leadership Series. The first famous one

617
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 5: was in nineteen eighty which was for Ronald Reagan and

618
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 5: he implemented, according to Heritage itself, sixty to sixty five

619
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 5: percent of its recommendations that were executive order, executive power

620
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 5: of the unitary executive essentially centralizing power in the presidency.

621
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 5: And so now we are at Project twenty twenty five,

622
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 5: which again is the ninth iteration of this, and it's

623
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 5: much the same or similar kinds of policies to vest

624
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 5: more and more power in executive branch. There's so many

625
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 5: times nine hundred pages, right, I got the social safety

626
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 5: that got the regulatory state, got what the Heritage Foundation

627
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 5: calls the quote unquote administrative state, but really centrally vest

628
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 5: the president with as much power as possible. So you

629
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 5: look at that through line and then you see the

630
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 5: Supreme Court case that says the president has immunity. And

631
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 5: these are Supreme Court justices, many of them came out

632
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 5: of this movement. You realize this is not a natural inevitability.

633
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 5: I mean, one other thing, just to go off on

634
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 5: one other tangent here, because I know you remember this.

635
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 5: I think the other part of the story that we

636
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 5: tell that kind of still blows my mind is how

637
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 5: quickly they flipped the court. There's like a period of

638
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 5: a few months in two thousand and five where the

639
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 5: Court goes from William Rehnquist and Sandrade O'Connor to John

640
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 5: Roberts and Sam Alito and the throwing out of Harriet

641
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 5: Myers in favor of Sam Alito. I think because there

642
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 5: was so much going on, it was sort of on

643
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 5: the eve of the Republicans losing in the mid terms,

644
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 5: the eve of Obama coming into office, that we forget that,

645
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 5: like the court shifted so significantly, so in like a

646
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 5: bat of an eye. Right, if you want to go

647
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 5: back to a period of history and like rewind, has

648
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 5: you had a time machine and you could rewind something

649
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 5: to change the whole next twenty years, it would be

650
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 5: those few months where John Roberts and sam Alito get

651
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 5: on that court and switch out for Renquist and O'Connor.

652
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 5: It just kind of blows my mind.

653
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying not to get agitated. Can you tell

654
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: us some of the crazier stuff that you found in

655
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: this series?

656
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 5: Sure, I mean, listen, the secret meetings about organizing for

657
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 5: the Powell Memo are kind of mind blowing. Again, they

658
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 5: wrote it all down. I mean, we found one document,

659
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 5: here's a fun one one document at one of these

660
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 5: task forces where it's corporate executives getting together, how do

661
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 5: we implement Lewis Powell's agenda? Where Roger ales Yes gives

662
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 5: a presentation saying that corporate executives should use their power

663
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 5: as advertisers to influence TV programming. And there's a series

664
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 5: of letters on some of the ALMMO task forces are

665
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 5: not only you know, the executives from major industrial corporations,

666
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 5: but we're talking about executives from ABC, CBS, et cetera,

667
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 5: et cetera. And there's correspondence in which these executives are

668
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 5: saying they are trying to influence the news coverage to

669
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 5: be less anti business a more pro quote unquote free market.

670
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 5: There was I think people who are old enough to

671
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 5: remember this, there was a Ford administration US government sponsored

672
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 5: ad campaign in conjunction with Exxon and other major corporations

673
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 5: through the Ad Council to basically promote free market capitalism

674
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 5: because they were afraid of the rising tide of like,

675
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 5: you know, natiorism. The Chamber of Commerce produced a movie

676
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 5: starring Jimmy Stewart to promote this. I mean that we

677
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 5: have clips in the in the in the podcast about

678
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 5: I mean, Jimmy Stewart sounds like a right wing Maybe

679
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 5: he was, I guess he was a right wing guy.

680
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 5: I mean it's like super right wing propaganda. And then

681
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 5: and then the one other I'll give you is that.

682
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 5: So the Buckley v. Valeo case, right, this is this

683
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 5: case to say money is speech, money is not corruption.

684
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 5: Is it the Buckley it's his brother, James Buckley was

685
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 5: a senator.

686
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because that family is filled with conservative propagandas.

687
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 5: Yes, James Buckley, the New York senator who is the

688
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 5: brother of William F. Buckley. James Buckley, by the way,

689
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 5: goes on to become after being in the Senate, a

690
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 5: federalist society, right wing judge. Of course. In Buckley v. Valeo,

691
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 5: it's the Ford administration. Remember I told you Ford had to,

692
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 5: you know, sign these these laws. The Ford administration doesn't

693
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 5: like the new campaign finance laws, but it's after Watergate,

694
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 5: so Gerald Ford kind of has to sign it. So

695
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 5: Robert Bork, master planned Cinematic Universe, is still the Solicitor General.

696
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 5: So his job is to officially defend the law and

697
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 5: to try to stop the Buckley case from going forward.

698
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 5: That's his like official job. He's representing the government. So

699
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 5: he files a sort of weak brief defending the Federal

700
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 5: Election Commission saying, you know, money is regulatable, it's not

701
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 5: free money. In politics is not free speech. But then

702
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 5: he files a second brief much stronger on behalf of

703
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 5: the Ford administration, undermining his own case. In other words,

704
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 5: undermining his own defense. It's this sort of bait and

705
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 5: switch which proves pivotal and gets the Supreme Court to

706
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 5: create this foundational pillar that money in politics can't be

707
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 5: regulated because it's constitutionally protected speech. If you want to

708
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 5: go back to I mean, that is the fundamental foundational

709
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 5: building block of the rest of the corruption that comes.

710
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,479
Speaker 5: Nothing else can stand up. Oh, one other tiny little

711
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 5: nugget that I love. Anthony Kennedy, the guy who writes

712
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 5: Citizens United. Do you know what Anthony Kennedy did? What

713
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 5: the first part of his career was. Do you know

714
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 5: what he before he was a judge. Now, Anthony Kennedy

715
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 5: was a corporate lobbyist known for handing out campaign cash

716
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 5: to legislators in Sacramento. Right, So by the time he

717
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 5: writes citizens you're like, you know, Anthony Kennedy's this like

718
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 5: swing vote is his longtime trip. It's like, wait a minute,

719
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 5: you're telling me the guy who was like in the

720
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 5: Sacramento swamp of politics, a corporate lobbyist who, by the

721
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 5: way helped draft Ronald Reagan's first anti tax ballot measure.

722
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 5: That now it all makes sense, Like, of course, the

723
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 5: guy who wrote Citizens United was a corporate lobbyist, you know,

724
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 5: who got his start in the swamp of essentially soft

725
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 5: corrupt politics.

726
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not super surprised. It's just crushingly depressing them.

727
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

728
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like if you wrote this as a movie, right,

729
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 5: you turned in a script, the executives would say, you know,

730
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 5: the script is too on the nose. It's like two,

731
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 5: it's two on the nose.

732
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting. Thank you for joining us.

733
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

734
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how

735
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we,

736
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make

737
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster

738
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America his future.

739
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: Right now, we have just released the final episode of

740
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: this five episode series. They're all available by looking up

741
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: Molly Jong Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube, and

742
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: if you are more of a podcast person and not

743
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: say a YouTuber, you can hit play and put your

744
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: phone in the lock screen and it will play back

745
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: just like the podcast. All five episodes are online now.

746
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: We need to educate Americans on what Trump's second term

747
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: would or could do to this country, So please watch

748
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: it and spread the word.

749
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: Jason Stanley is a professor at Yale University as well

750
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: as the author of e Racing History, How Fascists Rewrite

751
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 2: the Past to Control the Future.

752
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Pologics, Jason Stanley.

753
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 4: Great to be in discussion with you, Molly.

754
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: We've had you on a ton of times about your

755
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: book How Fascism Works, and also just in general about

756
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: what is happening in this sort of run up to

757
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: the election. Talk to as about this new book, Erasing History.

758
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 4: So Erasing History is about educational authoritarianism. You'll notice that

759
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 4: across the world when authoritarians get into power, they go

760
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 4: after not just the courts, as we see in the

761
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 4: United States where the Supreme Court is dominated by Trump's lackeys,

762
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 4: but they go after the schools. So that's not just

763
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 4: in the United States, it's every country. As Vladimir Putin

764
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 4: recently said, wars are won by teachers. So what I

765
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 4: do in Erasing History is explain the theoretical reason why

766
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 4: authoritarians always go after schools. It's among their primary targets schools, voting,

767
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 4: press courts. So I've set the situation in the United

768
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 4: States where we're watching university after university system be destroyed

769
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 4: and public schools under attack, a mood of terror and

770
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 4: atmosphere of fear among teachers and professors. Now and I

771
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 4: explain both conceptually and historically and setting into international contexts,

772
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 4: how it works and why authoritarians always go after schools

773
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 4: and universities as one of their very first targets.

774
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: So one of the states where this is happening, I

775
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: think it's interesting. There are different Republican run state it's

776
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: different red states where they're sort of trying this out,

777
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: and the biggest one is probably Florida. Explain to us

778
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: how in Florida this kind of erasing history authoritarian war

779
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: on education manifests.

780
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 4: What you do is you create a culture of terror

781
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 4: around teachers and professors so they feel they can't even

782
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 4: go near history that might get them in trouble. And

783
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 4: it's best to think of this as perspectives on the

784
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 4: present history. Is it reflects certain group's perspectives on the

785
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 4: present first. As you'll see in Erasing History, DeSantis has

786
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 4: created a culture of fear in public schools and universities.

787
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 4: Let's remember what Descantis does. He's created a fake electoral

788
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 4: police force whose job is to target non existent cases

789
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 4: of voter fraud.

790
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 3: Really or well, in there's almost no.

791
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 5: Voter fraud in the United States.

792
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 4: It's like zero point zero zero zero two five percent

793
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 4: or something completely non existent problem. The only goal is

794
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: to camp down minority votes, especially black votes, by creating

795
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 4: an atmosphere fear. That's what authoritarians do. They create in

796
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 4: that atmosphere fears. Then they've passed these divisive concept laws

797
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 4: which say that you can't teach anything that makes people

798
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 4: feel badly about their race or their gender identity. I

799
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 4: like to make comparisons here between what's happening with Florida

800
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 4: and the Day in Germany. The af Day is the

801
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 4: far right, extreme neo fascist extremist party that in fact

802
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 4: is officially an extremist party according to the German police,

803
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: and they have the same goal. They're running to say

804
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 4: the Nazi regime was not all bad. We've got to

805
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 4: stop dumping on the Nazi regime is bad. There are

806
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 4: some good aspects of it.

807
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: I shouldn't laugh because it's so fucking bleak, but like

808
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: some good Nazis as a hell of a hell to

809
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: die on.

810
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: Exactly, it's like saying there's some good enslavers. It's especially

811
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 4: horrifying when Jewish Americans back this stuff because they're essentially

812
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 4: backing anti Semitic neo fascist movements in Germany of all places.

813
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 4: They're saying, you shouldn't have education that makes people feel badly.

814
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 4: The primary purpose is to create this culture of reporting people,

815
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 4: to get people used to reporting people. So there's online

816
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 4: forms and KNA that the state has up to report

817
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 4: professors who are teaching divisit concepts. So these are concepts

818
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 4: like white privilege. So if you teach black history, you're

819
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 4: teaching that most Black Americans were excluded from the mortgage market,

820
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,479
Speaker 4: from federal housing loans until the nineteen seventies, so most

821
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 4: Black Americans don't have inherited wealth because they didn't get

822
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 4: to inherit a house. But that is deemed white privilege,

823
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 4: and you're not allowed to teach it. So you're not

824
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 4: allowed to teach the truth. The truth. You're not allowed

825
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 4: to teach the truth. And then We're seeing more and

826
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 4: more textbooks talk about how slavery wasn't all bad. Enslaved

827
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 4: people got skills things like this and again and again,

828
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 4: and teachers are under sheer terror. LGBT perspectives are being eliminated.

829
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 4: New College of Florida they just threw out in the

830
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 4: college library all their gender studies books, all books on't right.

831
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: I saw the photos of that. Yeah, it looked like

832
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 1: circa nineteen thirty three Germany.

833
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: The first Nazi book burning in May tenth, nineteen thirty three.

834
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 4: One third of it, I believe, I believe it was

835
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 4: one third. I'm at be getting the percentages wrong. But

836
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 4: one out of the three collections destroyed was Magnus Hirschfeld's

837
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 4: Institute for sexu Elivisenschaft's collection, which was all books from

838
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 4: LGBT perspectives and photographs documenting gender fluidity. So yes, it

839
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 4: looks like nineteen thirty three. So when these laws passed,

840
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 4: initially in Florida, now in Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, initially people

841
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 4: are like, oh, they won't have much of an effect.

842
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 4: They're having a tremendous effect. Curricula have to be rearranged.

843
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 4: I mean Tony Morrison's books are being banned our Nobel

844
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 4: Prize winner in literature. So this thing of banning the

845
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 4: perspectives or removing the perspectives of distinguished writers from minority

846
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 4: groups is so. We see this in Hungary with cortege there,

847
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 4: Jewish Holocaust survivor Nobel Prize winner in literature whose work

848
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 4: has been removed from the national curriculum, and we're seeing

849
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 4: open and explicit admiration of Victor Or Bond, the Hungarian

850
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 4: autocrat who also started his campaign with an attack on

851
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 4: universities for supposedly spreading gender ideology. So if you're an

852
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 4: LGBT youth or child of LGBT parents, what's being targeted

853
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 4: is the normalcy of your life. Florida instituted this post

854
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 4: ten year review, which said that every five years you're reviewed,

855
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: and you're reviewed on a long number of dimensions, including

856
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 4: intellectual diversity.

857
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: So they're undoing tenure basically totally.

858
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 4: Almost twenty percent of the University of Florida's professors received

859
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 4: unsatisfactory reviews and are going to be fired. Similar bills

860
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 4: have been passed in Ohio and Indiana, and we can

861
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 4: expect the same results there. In Ohio, State and University

862
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 4: of Indiana are two of the world's greatest public universities.

863
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 4: The United States is willingly dismantling it's the best university

864
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 4: system in the world, to stuff it with right wing

865
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 4: supporters of the Republican Party and to destroy it.

866
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 1: Can you explain to us how Trump world could enact

867
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: this on a federal level.

868
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 4: They want to eliminate the Department of Education, so this

869
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 4: means that there'd be no way to oversee what states

870
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 4: are doing. They're going to target federal funding for universities.

871
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 4: Private universities like my own university, tend to think that

872
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 4: they're outside the scope of this destruction. They'll target federal

873
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 4: funding or private universities if they don't do whatever the

874
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 4: government says. They'll start with DEI programs, I think, and

875
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 4: then they'll move to things like divisive concept laws, which

876
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 4: essentially removes African American studies from the curriculum. It removes

877
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 4: gender studies, things like this. So they're going to target

878
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 4: federal funding. They've already said that on the public school level,

879
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 4: they're going to maybe pass federal divisive concept legislation. Trump

880
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 4: has talked about making sure there's patriotic education, so we

881
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 4: see this in Hungary, obviously, in Russia, India, these are cases, Israel,

882
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 4: these are cases I look at in the book where

883
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 4: there's substantial misrepresentation of history, but Trump so in Hungary.

884
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 4: I have friends in Hungary whose kids go to public schools,

885
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 4: and they talk about the blatant nationalist nonsense their kids

886
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 4: are forced to swallow. And this is the kind of

887
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 4: thing we're going to expect to see in the United States.

888
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 4: We're going to expect to see bans on criticizing the

889
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 4: Fonders or talking about how they were enslavers. We can

890
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 4: expect to see a course of vicious clampdown on LGBT.

891
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 4: Florida has already removed any mention of Black Lives Matter

892
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 4: protests from their curriculum, and we're going to return to

893
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 4: the kind of fake history that was taught for many decades.

894
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 4: I didn't learn about reconstruction in high school. I kind

895
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 4: of learned, okay, black people had to vote for a

896
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 4: little and then they weren't ready for democracy, so they

897
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 4: lost it. I learned lies until two thousand. So the

898
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 4: book goes through a lot of textbooks. I hired research

899
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 4: assistance to go over Russian textbooks, US textbooks, textbooks in

900
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 4: India and some of the material in Israel as well

901
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 4: as Hungary and other countries. And I put this in

902
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 4: perspective to see what an education agenda under a one

903
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 4: party state that we face. We face the lost, permanent

904
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 4: loss of our democracy, and essentially Trump until he dies

905
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 4: and then whoever Trumpet points as his successor, So we

906
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 4: can look at what's going to happen with education. And

907
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 4: what I do in the book is I place their

908
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 4: agenda into a larger international agenda. Now what you have

909
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 4: that's distinctive about the United States is do you have

910
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 4: these tech billionaires, the ones that Obama criticized in his

911
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 4: DNC speech, whose goal is to just lower their own

912
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 4: taxes and destroy public goods. And schools are the central

913
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 4: public goods and democracy. So they are laser like focused

914
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 4: on destroying schools. They want to destroy the public schools.

915
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 4: Their own kids go to elite private schools. Their own

916
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 4: kids education won't be affected elite private high schools, but

917
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 4: the kids of other people, the public school system will

918
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 4: be destroyed. There will be no common basis of reality.

919
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: There will be some miss mash of religious schools to

920
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 4: satisfy the religious right. The Christian Nationalists and just private

921
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 4: charters schools. So we see this in Devasti's program or schools.

922
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: One of the things I'm so struck by is trumpsm

923
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: is not that popular. It seems to be you know,

924
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: he may win, but it's looking like he may not.

925
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: There are still down ballot at the state level, we

926
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: see endless Trump mimeographs, Trump copies who are embracing a

927
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: lot of the scariest elements of trump Ism, and that

928
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: is the anti democracy elements. How do we get to

929
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: a place where the Republican Party rejects this authoritarian bent

930
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 1: or is it too late?

931
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 4: Well, much of the Republican Party is an authoritarian party

932
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 4: that aims for a one party state, and they're already

933
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 4: explicitly anti democratic. Many states in the South are super

934
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 4: majority Republican, Even states like North Carolina super majority Republican legislature,

935
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 4: even though the majority of registered voters are Democrats. So

936
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 4: the Republican goal is to create a one party state

937
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 4: in the United States, and it is David Pepper discusses

938
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 4: in his book.

939
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 1: And he's a sort of Ohio expert.

940
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 4: Right, we have let the states become one party states.

941
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 4: So I just got back from doing political work in Tennessee.

942
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 4: In Tennessee, rape and incest are not excuses to have

943
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 4: an abortion. Abortions are illegal, even in the cases of

944
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 4: rape and incests. To get any contraception, anyone under the

945
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 4: age of eighteen has to have pre parental consent, and

946
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 4: the list goes on. Tennessee also is looking to fire

947
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 4: professors who teach black history. Essentially, so what happens once

948
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 4: you move to a one party state is they lock

949
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 4: down control, they gerrymander things, and then they pass the

950
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 4: most extreme legislation. It's really important to have movements that

951
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 4: challenge these super majorities in these one party autocratic states.

952
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 4: There need to be grassroots movements. Even if you live

953
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 4: in a state that Trump is going to win, you

954
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 4: have to go out and vote for democratic state representatives.

955
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 4: We need to overturn some of these supermajorities. The goal

956
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 4: is to make it such that voting is irrelevant because

957
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 4: the Republicans have the levers of power. Unfortunately, the majority

958
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 4: of Supreme Court justices are simply in the pocket of

959
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 4: the Republican Party and are purely partisan actors. And it's

960
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 4: not clear what to do with that situation.

961
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: What just an absolute disaster. Just give me something hopeful

962
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: about the authoritarian band.

963
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 3: Oh. Absolutely.

964
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 4: The great thing about the United States is that we seem,

965
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 4: even if it takes decades and decades and decades, we

966
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 4: seem to be able to confront these forces. Most Southern

967
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 4: states have never been democracies because of white supremacy. I mean,

968
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 4: when I tell people in Europe that the South has

969
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 4: the largest group of African Americans, that Mississi is well

970
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 4: over thirty percent Black. Black people in these states have

971
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 4: virtually no power, no political power. This continues America. But

972
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 4: you know, as you can see for example, from Amani

973
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 4: Perry and Jarvis Gibvens Black Teacher Project, they digitized all

974
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 4: these documents from black teachers in the Jim Crow South.

975
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 4: There is a long history of teaching black history under

976
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 4: the table, as it were. There's a long history of resistance.

977
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 4: They're going to put cameras in classrooms to make that harder.

978
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 6: So insane, That is so insane, I mean, what, but

979
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 6: I get what you're saying about how these Southern states

980
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 6: have never really had democracy and they've really always been

981
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 6: sort of laboratories of oppression.

982
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 1: But it's still so depressing.

983
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of hope in erasing history. There's

984
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 4: a lot of discussion of movements to reclaim history, to

985
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 4: fight back against these forces, even in Russia, the scary

986
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 4: place to do it.

987
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 3: You're not living in a.

988
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 4: Democracy unless there's a struggle against fascism that's just how

989
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 4: life works, or some kind of authoritarianism. So it's a democracy.

990
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 4: We have to preserve our democracy. We need to look

991
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 4: to the local level. We need to prevent Trump from

992
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 4: winning at the federal level to preserve the.

993
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 3: Best, the most.

994
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 4: The one area that America dominates is universities. So if

995
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 4: Trump wins, they're going to dismantle the US university system.

996
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 4: And if you think that the United States could maintain

997
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 4: a great university system under this culture of fear and intimidation,

998
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 4: look at China. China's university system is in deep decline

999
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 4: because you know, you can't really teach freely under those conditions.

1000
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you. I hope

1001
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: you'll come back.

1002
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 4: Molly anytime you want to talk.

1003
00:54:54,120 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: No, mo, Rick Wilson, your moment of fucker.

1004
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 3: My moment of fucker. This week is a state level issue.

1005
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 3: In Florida, the pro choice ballot initiative got a record

1006
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 3: number of signatures, vastly more than it needed to be

1007
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 3: on the ballot. And now Ron DeSantis, I fucking kid

1008
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 3: you not, that twisted little dwarf Savona roll a bitch

1009
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 3: sending his election police along with regular cops, to people's

1010
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 3: houses saying did you sign this petition? And they have

1011
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 3: files of people's driver's licenses and their personal information and

1012
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 3: their photographs, and they are trying to intimidate voters by

1013
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 3: sending the Ron de Santis election police to people's houses.

1014
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 3: This little shit bag, this old fuck wit, is absolutely

1015
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 3: engaging in the worst kind of demagogic reaction I've ever seen.

1016
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I had low opinion of the guy before,

1017
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 3: I had a minimal opinion of the guy before, but

1018
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 3: this is something that is so borderline Nazi I can't

1019
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 3: even concede it. The fact that people who signed a

1020
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 3: petition are being hunted down by Ron DeSantis's election cops,

1021
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 3: get the fuck out.

1022
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: That is an amazingly scary and horrible thing. Ron Santis

1023
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: is about to be term limited out anyway, so Lacey's

1024
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: running a hearty fuck that guy. And when Matt Gates wins,

1025
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: he's going to put Rond de Santa's in Gitmo. My

1026
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: moment of fuckery involves the woman who could be Liz

1027
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: Cheney but isn't, Nicki Haley. Nicki Haley is going to

1028
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: die on the hill, that trump Ism is not that bad.

1029
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 1: She's willing to campaign with him. She thinks he's a

1030
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: good candidate.

1031
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 3: I heard she's going to play Harrison debate prep.

1032
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: I mean, find yourself a primary candidate who is willing

1033
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: to suck up to Trump and remember everything Trump touches dies.

1034
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1035
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

1036
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1037
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1038
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.