1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: It's been four months since French President Emmanuel Macron effectively 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: declared war on French society euphemistically called pension reforms. Macron's 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: proposal would increase the retirement age from sixty two to 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: sixty four, effectively robbing the working class of two years 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: of their lives. In January, French unions filled the streets 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: of Paris with trash. Now French workers build brick and 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: mortar barricades on highways and set branches on fire on 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:39,639 Speaker 1: train tracks. Welcome to it could happen here. The escalation 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: from protest to uprising is in part a product of 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: how Macron forced the retirement age increase through a national 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: assembly he no longer controls without the ability to win 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: a vote. Macron's Prime Minister, Elizabeth Bourne, suddenly invoked Article 13 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: forty nine of the French Constitution, which allows the ruling 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: government to force there's a bill into law without a vote. 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: Mccron argues that because circumventing parliament to force legislation through 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: is legal, the move is democratic. Millions across France disagree. 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: We spoke to two French protesters, Mael, a student in Leone, 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: and a Gat, a union railway worker at a state 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: owned rail company about the movement. The two met through 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: a struggle committee designed to bring people from different backgrounds 21 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: and movements together to fight against mccron's reforms and four, 22 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: as Mael put it, victories for our class. A gat 23 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: had this to say about Macron's anti democratic sleight of hand. 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 2: What they are using right now is a rhetorical trap 25 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: which consists of confusing democracy and a constitutionalism. I don't 26 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: know if I'm using the right word, but for instance, 27 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: you know that they maybe you know that to impose 28 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: this reform, they have been using an article which is 29 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: Article forty nine point three of our constitution, and they 30 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: say that, well, this article is in the constitution, we 31 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: are in a democracy, and therefore this article is democratic, 32 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: which is absolutely false. It's a fallacious reasoning. It is 33 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: not true. It's the forty nine point three is an 34 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: anti constitution. It is an anti democratic article of the constitution. 35 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: And this is what they have been trying to do lately, 36 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 2: to say to make us believe that everything that's been 37 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: happening is absolutely normal and implies with the democratic standards 38 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: of France, which is not true. Also, what they are 39 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: trying to do to disqualify any opposition from the left 40 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: wing is to say that the left wing party is 41 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: actually an extreme left wing party, which it is not. 42 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: And it's kind of they are trying to induce the 43 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: kind of history in all this and to radicalize what 44 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: is not. What we are asking for is simply for 45 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: them to to listen to what we, for once can 46 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: call the people. Generally, when you have a protest, it's 47 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: only a part of the population that disagrees with the 48 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: policy of the government. But this time, honestly, uh, there 49 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: are seven seven people out of ten who are who 50 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: disagree with this and uh, nine workers out of ten 51 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: who disagree with this reform. Honestly, I think we can 52 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: call our selves the people. And in a democracy, well, 53 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: what you do is listen to the people, not that 54 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: representatives and not the members of the government, but the 55 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: people in the fucking streets. I'm sorry. 56 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: Uh. 57 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: And and because they do not want to do that, 58 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: they try to say that we are radicals and that 59 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: we are supported by radical political parties. It's not true. 60 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's very radious situation. 61 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what I wanted to say about what 62 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: they're at their current strategy. Aside from the repression of 63 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: which we are going to talk in a few minutes. 64 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: This is what their strategy is. 65 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like basically they confuse all of the forces on 66 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: the left together. They say that Milansia is funding the 67 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: Black Blog, you know, so it's things like that, the CGTS, 68 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 3: the fee, all of them, it's all the same, and 69 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 3: they all want the destruction of civilization. And I don't know. 70 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 3: That's the discourse on the far right. 71 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, babies, Yeah, that sounds like you're American, right too. 72 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is kind of linked to police violence, 73 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 3: this discourse. When you were talking about how they're saying 74 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 3: that the constitution is democratic and there's nothing you can 75 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: say even though well, the point of the constitution is 76 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 3: to bypass the parliament. I don't know that democratic. But yeah, 77 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 3: so when it comes to police violence, the reaction is 78 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: to say that the state holds the legitimate monopoly of violence, 79 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: so therefore they can represss how they want. That's literally 80 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 3: what they're saying right now, which is worrying. 81 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: The French police have been incredibly violent in their campaign 82 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: to suppress the protests at an ecological action in Sanzoline 83 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: on March twenty fifth. Tens of thousands of activists were 84 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: met with helicopters, armored vehicles, and six thousand grenades, many 85 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: of which were the French police's new and incredibly dangerous 86 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: military grade GM two l CS gas grenades. One protester 87 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: was shot in the head with a tear gas grenade 88 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: fired by a grenade launcher mounted on an armored vehicle. 89 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: He remained in a coma fighting for his life for 90 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: an entire month. Earlier today, his parents' release a statement 91 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: saying that he has begun to wake up, but is 92 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: not fully conscious and his life remains in danger. The 93 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: day before, a special police motorcycle unit called Brav M, 94 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: created in twenty nineteen to suppress the Genejean with the 95 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: Yellow vest protests, was recorded threatening a group of random 96 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: people that had arrested for sitting in front of a 97 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: building from The Washington Post. The cop says, quote, You're 98 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: lucky to be sitting there now that we've arrested you. 99 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: I swear I'd have broken your legs. Literally. I can 100 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: tell you We've broken elbows and faces, but you I'd 101 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: have broken your legs, one officer says in the recording. 102 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: Limone reported two slapping sounds can be heard, the report says, 103 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: along with an officer saying, wipe that smile off your face. 104 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: Later in the clip, a police officer warns the young 105 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: people they have detained. Quote next time we come, you 106 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: won't be getting in the car to go to the 107 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: police station. You'll be getting in another thing called an 108 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: ambulance to go to the hospital. Paris police chief Laurette 109 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: Nuez said on Friday he was quote very shocked by 110 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: the audio clip. Mayel and a gat We're less shocked. 111 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: This is not really a surprise, unfortunately, because well, our 112 00:07:54,160 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: lease is not as ah. No, it's problematic, but maybe 113 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: not as problematic as in the US. I'm sorry if 114 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: I'm wrong about that. But we also follow sometimes what 115 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: happens on the other side of the ocean. And uh, 116 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: but I must say that we we have had issues 117 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: of police murders on the street, like and police violence, 118 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: want and violence, and unfortunately that now it's not new 119 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: and there is a newspaper media parts who managed to 120 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: find a excerpt of I think it's a group on 121 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: Whatsapple whatever of policemen talking about race, war and uh 122 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: and all these kinds of things. And unfortunately we know 123 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: that there are such people in our police. 124 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 3: So the police are they're kind of basically fascists, all 125 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 3: of them. Like they have like one of their unions 126 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 3: which called Alliance, and for the politics for the presidential elections, 127 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 3: they invited the right wing party who are basically only 128 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 3: people who talg with all about genocide. And then the 129 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: classic Mariine Japan and there the far right who's openly 130 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 3: calling for a civilizational war with Muslims. So that's the 131 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 3: police unions. And for a little bit of history on 132 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: the police, we have, for example, one of the very 133 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: violent units that you see arresting people all over friends, 134 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: which are called Brigadotic Riminality or back for fort and 135 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 3: these people come from some sort of colonial units who 136 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 3: were in Algeria during the war and when there was 137 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 3: a need to repress populations who previously lived in colonies 138 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 3: and then moved to France to the main country, they 139 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 3: created a lot of very violent units recruited through people 140 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 3: who were in the Algerian war to basically break down 141 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 3: people's house things like this, beat them up. 142 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 2: You know. 143 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 3: It was really colonial practices and all of this kind 144 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 3: of state with as a repression of pour and non 145 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 3: white areas of town where they try to always have 146 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 3: a strong police presence and touch people, they say in 147 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 3: the Act, but they're really making up reasons to arrest people. 148 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 3: Police violence is not new at all, And yeah, basically 149 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: it's easier. Need to train all year long against poor, 150 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:32,479 Speaker 3: non white people, and then during protests they come against 151 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 3: people who have come to protests basically, which are generally 152 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 3: different people, but not entirely different people. 153 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: Of course, the police response to protests, again says, has 154 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: gotten more violence as the Jile Jean protests in twenty nineteen, 155 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: but instead of clearing the streets as Macron had hoped, 156 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: the increase in violence is just narrowing the traditional gap 157 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: in more moderate trade protesters and the more radical protesters 158 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: found in black blocks. 159 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: I've seen people in America in England saying that the 160 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: movement is dying down because the inter union protests are 161 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: more and more away from each other. But in the 162 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 3: actual protest people are much much more radical. And what 163 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: happens is that the people who are in the front 164 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: of the protests before the union and who may potentially 165 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: fight with the cops that the Union will never do, 166 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 3: they're more and more numerous, Like four times bigger than 167 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: the protests months ago, and so the cops cannot charge us. 168 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: Every time they charge, people get around them, and there 169 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 3: are rocks which happen to hit their heads. 170 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't know how Yeah, cry ask about that a bit, 171 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: specifically about the dynamic of there being a sort of 172 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, I kind of divide between the sort 173 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: of more builtant people who are fighting the car and 174 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: the sort of more moderate like trade union like protesters. 175 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, I guess, like how firm has 176 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: that separation been and what I guess have the unions 177 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: been doing here? Have they been trying to contain things? 178 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: Have they been trying to push forwards? 179 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a very recent phenomenon kind of, 180 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 3: especially the way it's taken from now, because it's basically 181 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 3: a mix of a black block and some le Jeune 182 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 3: and some random already called people, yeah, yellow vests. But 183 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: so the black block it started really in twenty sixteen. 184 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 3: Before this was no real black block all the time 185 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: at protests, and the attitude of the unions is that 186 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 3: they hate the black block. It's pretty simple. I mean, 187 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 3: not of course, as everyone who is in a union, 188 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 3: but the unions who organize the protest. They don't want 189 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 3: anyone in front of them. They want people to go 190 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: behind them and follow whatever they want to do. So 191 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 3: they've been really aggressive. But even if there are conflicts 192 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: right now, I would say the fact that the people 193 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: in front of the union are more and more numerous, 194 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: I think there's somewhat less tensions the unions. I don't 195 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: think they feel like they can really push against even 196 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: the black bloc or radicals who break stuff. 197 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: If I may add in something, indeed, there is a 198 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: difference between the attitude of the union directions, let's say, 199 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: and people like me, the simple unionized workers. And what 200 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 2: Miles said is absolutely true about the the hate, the Yeah, 201 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: they really don't want any black blocks, especially in front 202 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 2: of them. But what I observed in these over the 203 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: last few demonstrations is that what we call the cortege, 204 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: which is really the very head of the demonstration, even 205 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: in front of the unions, the official union group, where 206 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: there are the black blocks and the yellow vests, there 207 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: are more and more people. I was I was like, 208 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: I was going to say, like me, but I'm a 209 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: bit of a still a bit cowardly, and I'm still 210 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: afraid of of getting in this kind of place. But 211 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: there are more and more unionized workers who mingle with 212 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: the black blogs and et cetera. And I you know, 213 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: we also have what we call manifestations sauvage, the wild 214 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: and and not organized protests that are not organized by 215 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: unions but are kind of spontaneous. 216 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 3: They opened after Macro forced the reform through parliament without 217 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: a vote, and people just went in the streets without 218 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: the union and they burned. There were images in Paris 219 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 3: of everything burning. It was that day, and that's what 220 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 3: we call wild protests. 221 00:16:54,160 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and for the first time I saw unionized workers 222 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: joining in. That is crazy, because they were feeling that 223 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: what the unions were proposing within the legal and pacifists 224 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 2: and nice frame was not enough because really our president 225 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: was really just making fun of us and we couldn't 226 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: have it, and what we usually do was not longer 227 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: enough for us. And this is really something new. 228 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: I asked about the appearance of the Gilijan in the 229 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: current protest and what that you thought of them, Mael. 230 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: The student was somewhat dismissive, but the impact that Jile 231 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: Jean had on a GAT and the railway workers was 232 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: very different. 233 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 3: I can say a little bit, but I don't know 234 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 3: much about the yellow vests. For what I saw of 235 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 3: the yellow Vests were a lot of blockages and people 236 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 3: against taxes on gas. And the way it radicalized was 237 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 3: towards some form of radical democracy, but maybe not so radical, 238 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 3: because they wanted the mass movement seemed to end on 239 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 3: the demand for referendums. Basically, they wanted to be able 240 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 3: to call their own referendums, and the demands were not 241 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 3: directly linked to economics. And as I saw them many 242 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 3: very often, and when we saw them in protests in lyon, 243 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 3: they work no weird, but I don't know them very well. 244 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 3: What I saw was that the government repressed them really, 245 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 3: really hard, much harder than the usual protests that we do, 246 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 3: because they were really scared of them. 247 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I took part to the yellow vest movement, 248 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 2: and I tend to disagree a bit with your analysis 249 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: on this. Yeah, no problem, no, no, no, no, it's 250 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: just a I'm just saying, and it's not an attack 251 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 2: at all. At first, I must say I hainted this 252 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 2: movement because well, just long story short, it began in 253 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, and in twenty eighteen there was a big 254 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 2: movement in the SENCF where I work in the Railway 255 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 2: Public Company because the current it's very funny because it's 256 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: the current Prime Minister who was the tra and Sport 257 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: Minister at the time. 258 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 3: They just view them around, they keep we keep seeing. 259 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 2: It's absolutely I can't stand that anyway. I have a 260 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: personal vendetta with this woman. And we had been trying 261 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 2: to fight off the well, they kind of started to 262 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 2: kill off our company. It's only now dying of its 263 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 2: slow death. But this is where it really well, this 264 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: is where the end really began in twenty eighteen for us. 265 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 3: You mean by privatization, they're killing the content. 266 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are not private yet, but the door has 267 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: been opened one yes. And so it's been a really 268 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 2: really hard protest for us and we in the end 269 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 2: we lost. It was really hard, and after that we 270 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 2: we've been I've seen these people the yellow vest stand 271 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: up and take on our songs to make them their own. 272 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 2: The famous only lap. It started with the in the 273 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: railway world, and it really started in Lyons. I was 274 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: there and suddenly these people whom I did not see 275 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: by our side a few months before, started to invade 276 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 2: the streets and sing our songs. I was really outraged. 277 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: I was furious, and then I fortunately I spent time 278 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: with the people who are more intelligent than me and 279 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 2: who said that it was worth going to see these 280 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: people and see what was on their minds and what 281 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: they were thinking, especially because there were people who had 282 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: never before protested, They had never been on the street 283 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: to demonstrate about anything, and they were right to do that. 284 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: And it all started with the price of oil and 285 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 2: of gasolina. And I found that really really insignificant, and 286 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 2: in fact, it really opened my mind about the reality 287 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: of other people, because I do not have a car, 288 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 2: but some people have a car, and they needed to 289 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: live together, to make a live in And not only that, 290 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 2: but the motives of the protest. They roaded and roaded 291 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 2: these people. They got politicized at such a speed, a 292 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 2: high speed. This is incredible because quite rapidly the what 293 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: they were demanding were. It was not simply the lowering 294 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 2: of the oil price. It was also more democracy, it 295 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 2: was more social justice. It was against the cancelation of 296 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: attacks unfortune of the great fortune of people on great tealth, 297 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: and on climate. Also, it merged with a lot of 298 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: climate demonstrations and it broad it really it was about 299 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: really a social model and what world we want to 300 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: live in tomorrow. And so this is why I say 301 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: this movement was really incredible. It was also incredible because 302 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: it was taking place without the unions. It depends on 303 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 2: the regions. In France, in Leon, for example, there is 304 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 2: no love lost between the Yellow Vests and the unions 305 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 2: the direction of the unions. But in other regions like 306 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 2: in South and France or in the North, it's very different. 307 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 2: And soon they began to protest together and the Yellow 308 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: Vest they they they gave us a new a fresh 309 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: new breath. It was really a fresher breath of fresh air. 310 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: There was such spontaneous, they were so spontaneous and so angry. Also, 311 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 2: you know, they they they remind they reminded us what 312 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: it was to be angry and to have the right 313 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 2: to be angry and not to be helpless in front 314 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: of an unjust policy. And it really changed changes. And 315 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: as just like I said that earlier, that in this 316 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 2: very movement, the movement we live in now, there are 317 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: there are unionized workers who mingle with the black Dog 318 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 2: for example, well, there were a lot of us unionized 319 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: workers in the Yellow Vest too, and so yeah, it 320 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: influenced us a lot. 321 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 3: I think we can say that if twenty sixteen added 322 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 3: a black block to the protests, now with the Yellow 323 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 3: vestic change completely the way we protest as well. All 324 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 3: the blockages are like much more regular, and the way 325 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 3: we're people fear less, you know, to demand things and 326 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 3: to organize without unions. I think we can say that 327 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 3: it definitely changed things. Yes, Also personally, I think that 328 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: if I say wrong things about Yellow vests, why, I 329 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: don't know. The important is because yes, the concerns about 330 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 3: oil gas price was not one of buying because I 331 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 3: live in the city and I don't have a car, 332 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 3: So I think it affected more the country, the countryside 333 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 3: of France, which is more concerned with gas prices, yeah, 334 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 3: than big cities. Also because we already have lots of 335 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 3: political movements here, so like it's conven different. I don't know, 336 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 3: this is sport very well, to be honest, maybe I 337 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 3: should just show up. 338 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 4: No, I mean, it's it's interesting to me because I 339 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 4: remember when the Jilla Jehan's protests started up, there was 340 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 4: a lot of debate outside of France and kind of 341 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 4: like westerners observing the protests to are these guys. Is 342 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 4: this something that's like a positive movement? Are they all 343 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 4: right wing? And it's interesting that the in which kind 344 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 4: of all of these different sort of eras of protest 345 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 4: movements in France have melded together for this most recent 346 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 4: kind of uprising. Like you've got you know, the the 347 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 4: you've got these trade unions, you've got Gills Jen's, you've 348 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 4: got the Black Bloc, all sort of working as different 349 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 4: pieces of this of this uprising, you know, based on 350 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 4: kind of the different tactics of their eras. That's fascinating 351 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 4: to me. 352 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: I was discussing and saying that it's kind of a 353 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 3: feature of movements about pensions, even if they can be 354 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 3: very different, that they tend to attract a lot of people. 355 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 3: And at first the protests were not very radical at 356 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 3: all compared to protests we could have with similar sizes. 357 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: But gradually the movement is radicalizing a lot, it seems 358 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 3: to me, the people who are in and the fact 359 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,479 Speaker 3: that it tends to mobilize everyone at first, even if 360 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 3: it's not very radical, when it's created this sort of 361 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 3: mingling of everybody. There's a Yellow Vester Union, the Black Bloc, 362 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 3: everybody except to political parties because they're useless. 363 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 1: But alongside the radicalization of protesters from all walks of 364 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: life inside France, there's been a surprisingly strong international reaction 365 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: from other European workers and activists. 366 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 4: You know, I'm wondering. You know, during the Black Lives 367 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 4: Matter protests in the US and twenty twenty, international attention 368 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 4: was significant, and it was to some extent useful in 369 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 4: terms of helping to raise money and stuff for different 370 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 4: bail funds. People from all around the world helped to 371 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 4: that extent. But I'm wondering, is the degree of international 372 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 4: attention by other countries left wing movements on what's happening 373 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 4: in France right now? Is it having an impact directly 374 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 4: or is it just sort of like noise. 375 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 3: Well, on my part, it seems to be a lot 376 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 3: of noise, yes, because a lot of people seem to 377 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 3: misunderstand completely the situation, and yeah, they just give their 378 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 3: opinion and that's fine, I guess. But I think there 379 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 3: may be actual solidarity with some militants. I mean, I 380 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 3: know among anarchists that there are an archists who come 381 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 3: from Italy, Switzerland, Germany and other countries who try to 382 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 3: help actions and protests and I'm pretty sure that among 383 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: unions there's international solidarity as well, but maybe I got 384 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 3: you should say something about this. 385 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 2: Yes, there is international solidarity. Honestly, this is not something 386 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 2: I was expecting. But for instance, last week in Belgium 387 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: there are workers from a total plant that actually blocked 388 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: the freaking port and to prevent them from sending product 389 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: to substitute it from to the product that was blocked 390 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 2: by protesters in France, and that was This is for me, 391 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 2: This is absolutely wonderful. And yes, so yes, there there 392 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: are international solidarities. We have been in our inter professional assembly, 393 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: because we have a local inter professional assembly, and we 394 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 2: have been expressing our gratitude to the people in Greece, 395 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 2: in Argentina, in Spain, in Germany who expressed their support 396 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: openly and personally. I was really surprised to see how 397 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: many people actually were being attention to what was happening 398 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: in our country, and it gives us, well, it gave 399 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: strength to many people, and it also gives hope because 400 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 2: I realized that, well, you know, the main leverage we 401 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: have on our lititicians is the economical beverage. And so 402 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 2: when the bosses a big companies and investors and everything 403 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: start to say, well, guy, uh, your reform of pensions 404 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: in France is starting to make a mess in Germany, 405 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: in Spain, in Greece. Please stop your madness. Well, this 406 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 2: is a leverage I was not expecting. We are trying 407 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: to use the leverage of the big wealth and UH 408 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: and and the big companies in France, which is already 409 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: something quite hard to move. And that was really an 410 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: unexpected support. And we really hope that it's going to 411 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 2: have an because Macaron is very uh. He's a narcissistic 412 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: guy and he lost his own image. So if his 413 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 2: image is starting to suffer internationally, I think this is 414 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: going to be a big problem for him, and his 415 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: image at the time is really a catastrophe. 416 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: Belgium, of course, is not the only place for blockades 417 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: are happening. They've become a staple of the uprising in 418 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: France as well. 419 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: I'm very interesting talking about the blockages of the highways 420 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 3: around Lyon, because many cities are trying to do this. 421 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 3: There is then which is in Brotain, which manages to 422 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 3: block the highways very often, and so they started in 423 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 3: Lyon and we tried once a few weeks ago. It 424 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 3: was a call by the unions with a few points 425 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 3: to block in the morning and people the militants from 426 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 3: all over join the points at like six am or 427 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 3: seven am, I don't remember. But when people arrived there 428 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 3: were cups everywhere and they were pushed away and circulation 429 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 3: and capitalism could work normally and everything was fine. So 430 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 3: we were very frustrated. So reorganized completely and through the 431 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 3: Struggle Committee, we assembled people from general assemblies all over 432 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 3: the city and also various groups, and we managed to 433 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 3: organize a blockade last Thursday, and it worked pretty well. 434 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 3: It was not exceptional, but for first trip, people were 435 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 3: very happy about it, and it led to many people 436 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 3: from all over in the movement working together on a 437 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 3: project and meeting together in assembly and then being together 438 00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 3: on blockages. And I think its moments like this which 439 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 3: are very important for the movement to develop. I'm not 440 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 3: sure if the blockage in itself is the most interesting 441 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 3: action in terms of economic damage, especially if we don't 442 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 3: stay very long, but the different social relations it can create, 443 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 3: and I think it can have a lot of influence 444 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 3: in the movement, especially when we're thinking about the unions 445 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 3: and the leaders of the unions who don't want to 446 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 3: mobilize too much, we don't want to go too far. 447 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 3: What can we do outside of that? Well, I think 448 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 3: that's part of the answer, at. 449 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 2: Least, I agree. 450 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's only that was interesting to me 451 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: because I think the roadblocks and barricades like that as 452 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: a sort of social site is like a really it's 453 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: a thing you see a lot in the past, like 454 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five years of protest movements. This was a 455 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: big deal in like Hawk in twentyd and six. There's 456 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: a lot of similar stuff in Tehran during the uprising there. 457 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: It's interesting to see it sort of like re entering 458 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: the repertoire of stuff. 459 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, the kind of the different species of social interactions 460 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 4: that are made possible by these kind of zones of 461 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 4: autonomy that are creating. 462 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 3: And they ask a lot of new questions for militants, 463 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 3: how to hold a barricade against cops and against cars. 464 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 3: It's a lot of different questions which I think they 465 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 3: can radicalize people at least two demand more things. So 466 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 3: it's not clear what they want to demand for now. Yeah, 467 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 3: I just wanted to say that I'm really really happy 468 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 3: to see people from different parts of society really coming 469 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 3: together and accepting to work together, like so many things impossible. 470 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,919 Speaker 3: Now as a student, I've met basically sans from all 471 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 3: universities in my town. I now have free access to 472 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 3: all publications in French and I'll never pay for anything. 473 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 3: It's really really great. In terms of blockage, there is 474 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:33,919 Speaker 3: just south of Leon, there is an oil refinery which 475 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 3: is not on strike. It's among the only ones. So 476 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 3: it's really important because in France there's a special system 477 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 3: because they wanted to stay independent from all producers, so 478 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 3: they import the oil and then they refine it in France. 479 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 3: So basically, if we stop all the refinery, there is 480 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 3: no more gas for cars, and right it's becoming a 481 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 3: real problem because of the strikes, and this one stays 482 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 3: open and so people have started to try and block 483 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,760 Speaker 3: the entry. So right now there's like something like fifty 484 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 3: union workers and like fifty radical militants who come there 485 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 3: every morning. Well not this week, but last week they 486 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 3: were doing it because this week we haven't said, but 487 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 3: everyone is on holiday kind of somewhat, the students are 488 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 3: on holiday, so many people take their paid leave right 489 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 3: now as well. It's kind of a special time. Soone 490 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 3: but next week, probably the blockages aren't going to start again. 491 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 3: And it's great to see union workers meeting with more 492 00:38:54,400 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 3: radical people who try and get an action together. I 493 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 3: think when there is story diarity that exists, great things 494 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 3: can happen. 495 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 2: If I may add something about blockages and everything, what 496 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: works pretty well, and it's it's quite satisfying. Uh, there 497 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 2: are big days of mobilization. And what what has happened 498 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 2: several times now is that on the very same day, 499 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 2: at the very same time, there are several appointments a 500 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 2: little everywhere in the in the town, and to block something, 501 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 2: to block a highway, to block a factory, to block 502 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 2: a school or whatever. And this allows, uh, it allows 503 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 2: us to to dispatch and to stretch the forces of 504 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 2: the police, and so they are never enough everywhere to 505 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 2: stop us. And that makes that can make that can 506 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 2: make the day a real success because you have a 507 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 2: lot of things happening at the very same time, but 508 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 2: there is only so many cops. So yeah, it works 509 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 2: pretty well. 510 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: This is interestingly the same analysis the US police came 511 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 1: to in twenty twenty. It's easy to stop one large action, 512 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: but several smaller actions split police forces and prevent them 513 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: from just caddling one large block of protesters. I guess 514 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: I think I was interested in is that I think 515 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: one of the things that happens in the US a 516 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: lot is you'll get a national day of action, but 517 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: all of the actions like there'll just be one giant 518 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: action in a city, and you don't get the kind 519 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,240 Speaker 1: of like diffusion that's been helpful with spreading out cop numbers. 520 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: And I was wondering, like, is this something like the 521 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: unions are specifically planning to have multiple events all over 522 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: the place, or is that something that's been happening like 523 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: outside that or. 524 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 3: No, no, nonser unions only and when they plan for 525 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 3: a strike and for protests. 526 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 2: There are also actions, but only one action and the 527 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 2: others are organized by I mean regular people or no. 528 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 3: But like you mean the actions on the day, they're 529 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 3: not organized by the national union's local unions which do 530 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 3: the actions, right, that's what you're talking about. Yes, absolutely, yeah, 531 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 3: so there are local unions because in friends, unions are 532 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 3: very federal. Somewhat's this we can talk about it. It's 533 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 3: a bit of a problem. But like you know, the 534 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 3: SEGET it started out as an archiest union, so they 535 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 3: were like very into federalism and all of this. So 536 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 3: there is local autonomy, and what happens is workers in 537 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 3: very mobilized sectors like the railways, the energy workers, they 538 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 3: were organized through their union actions on that day, for example. 539 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 3: And on top of this, for example, you have students 540 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 3: in a certain high school or a certain university who 541 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 3: decided to block something, and for example, they need support. Recently, 542 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 3: there was a notably right wing campus who was blocked 543 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 3: by students, and so a lot of us came to 544 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 3: help them because we've had never seen this campus blocked ever. 545 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 3: And of course what happened was some fascists attacked them, 546 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 3: but we were much much more numerous than them, so 547 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,399 Speaker 3: it was no problem. But the next time they had 548 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 3: a blockage planned at this campus, yes, they ended up 549 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 3: not having enough numbers so they can sold. But the 550 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 3: fascists didn't know that it was canceled, and so they 551 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 3: all came really armed with metal bars and all of that. 552 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 3: You know. 553 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: Still, despite the threat of fascist streak gangs, and they're 554 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 1: better armed and more legitimate counterparts in the police, the 555 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: protests continue. They continue to block roads, they continue to 556 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: occupy universities, they continue to strike, they continue to fight 557 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: the police. They continue to find new forms of resistance, 558 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: new forms of solidarity, new worlds composed of people who 559 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: in ordinary times would never have met, and in the 560 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,720 Speaker 1: process they continue to find new ways of being free. 561 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,720 Speaker 1: Beneath the cobblestones, the beach sat another generation of French 562 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: protesters in May of nineteen sixty eight. All you have 563 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: to do is pick it up and throw it. It 564 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 565 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 566 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 567 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 568 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 2: You listen to podcasts. 569 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,720 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 570 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: monthly at coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. 571 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening