1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm to playing a chok reboarding and I'm faired out 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: and we are continuing on today with our discussion on 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: Operation Mincemeat, which referred to as the most successful wartime 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: deception ever attempted. It was essentially an elaborate World War 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: two military hoax cooked up by British intelligence in ninety 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: three to fool the Nazias into thinking the Allies next 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: move was going to be an attack on Greece and 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Sardinia when they were actually about to invade Sicily in 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: an offensive known as Operation Husky. So in part one 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: of this podcast, we talked a little bit about what 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: was going on in World War Two at the time, 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: why Cecily was the logical next target for the Allies, 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: and why a deception plan, or rather deception plans were 16 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: really needed to throw Hitler off the sent We also 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: laid out the basic premise for Operation mince Meat, and 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: that was using a corpse to relay false information to 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: the enemy by planting official looking documents on it and 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: dropping it in an area where the enemy would be 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: sure to find it. Ian Fleming, as we mentioned, was 22 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: the first to propose this idea in a ninety nine 23 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: memo called the Trout Memo, and no one did anything 24 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: with it for years, probably just because it seemed so 25 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: outrageous and and kind of Yeah, but by ninety three, 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: British intelligence agents Charles Chumbley and you and Montague had 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: caught hold of this idea, They developed it and had 28 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: been given permission to kind of run with it. Yeah. 29 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: So when we left off, Chumley and Montague were really 30 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: in the thick of giving the dead body that they've 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: managed to obtain a whole background, a life, and a 32 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: personality of everything. From the uniform that it was going 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: to wear, they decided to make it a Royal Marines officer, 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: to its religion and its name Captain William Martin, he 35 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: was going to be Bill Martin. Friends. That's the level 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: of details that they attended to. Essentially, they created Bill 37 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: as this likable, slightly irresponsible guy. The BBC documentary that's 38 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: based on the story, called Operation Minsmey, described him as 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: brave and romantic, but disorganized and deeply in debt. He 40 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: was also recently engaged. As we mentioned before, Bill's fictional 41 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: fiance Pam was based on an actual young woman who 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: worked for British counterintelligence named Jane Leslie. Montague played the 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,119 Speaker 1: role of Bill and actually flirted with and dated Jean Leslie, 44 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: who went right along on it. Yeah, they would call 45 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: each other Bill and Pam in these scenarios, so really 46 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: just getting into this fiction that they were creating around 47 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: these people. Yeah, but there was also a practical side 48 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: to all the story boarding and play acting, because once 49 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: they've made up a life for Bill, Martin, Chumley and 50 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: Montague needed to plant evidence that really would do something 51 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: put this plan into effect. And we talked about the 52 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: cross and the overdraft notice and this fake letters from Pam. 53 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: They also went ahead and included a bill from a 54 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: jeweler for an engagement ring, but also some other stuff 55 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: which arguably would make the court seem even more like 56 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: a real person than stuff like letters. Things that the 57 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: spies referred to as wallet litter, and those are the 58 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: things that you probably have in your pocket now, Things 59 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: you just absent mindedly keep in your wallet or your 60 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: purse or your pockets that don't necessarily mean anything to you, 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: but they show that you're somebody who walks around and 62 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: somebody who does stuff so pocket change ticket stubs. I 63 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: don't know, Toblina, you might have law terror receipts in 64 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: your pocket. It could be anything like that. And you 65 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: just like trash like a gum wrapper. Totally. I have 66 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: so much of the stuff that I just got rid of. 67 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: I just moved, so I cleaned out my purses and things, 68 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: and I thought about this because I just read this, 69 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, I just had done this research. I was 70 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: thinking about all the wallet w Yes, I have bags 71 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: and bags of wallet litter. But yeah, the stuff just 72 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: tells you a little bit about the person. You know, 73 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: maybe nothing significant, but maybe it does tell you a 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: little something about a person's personality. And they made sure 75 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: to plant some things like this on the corpse that 76 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: they were using as well. Some of the items, like 77 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: I said, we're meaningless, like a partially used book of stamps. 78 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: Others were less so like ticket stubs for performance on 79 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: a particular date, which might convince whoever found them that 80 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: Bill Martin would have had to have been traveling by 81 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: plane because they have that particular date on them. So, 82 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, just planning things here and there that would 83 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: fill out the story. A little bit in some ways 84 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: help them convince the Germans that this was a real 85 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: person and of course make it realistic. So that process 86 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: and all the considerations that it required could probably be 87 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: a little bit tedious, but it was probably lots of 88 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: fun to compared to the process of creating the most 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: important information that they were going to have to plant 90 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: on the body. I mean, forget whallet litter. The most 91 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: important thing was going to be the fake official military documents, 92 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: which were of course vital to misleading the Access powers 93 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: in the first place. They decided that the secret documents 94 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: would take the form of personal letters between high ranking 95 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: Allied officials that just happened to drop vital info here 96 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: and there, because actual battle plans and so forth would 97 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: not have been carried by a single officer in this way. 98 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: Those would have been sent by diplomatic pouch something like that. Specifically, 99 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: the letter that aimed to convince the Nazis that Greece 100 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: was a target and that Sicily was a decoy was 101 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: created as a correspondence between Lieutenant General Archibald Nye, who 102 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: was the Vice Chief of the Imperial General Staff in London, 103 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: and General Harold Alexander, who was the senior British officer 104 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: under Eisenhower in Tunisia. These guys knew each other. They 105 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: were both important enough that the Germans would instantly know 106 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: who they were, and it made sense that they would 107 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: be privy to this sort of information. So just three 108 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: essential things that they needed to have that they'd be 109 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: corresponding about something like this. So Montagu took the first 110 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: stab at writing this letter. He thought he made a 111 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: pretty good attempt at it. But his bosses and several 112 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: other of the high ranking folks immediately started weighing in 113 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: on it, and it became a real source of frustration 114 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: for Montague because various officials debated about the letter for 115 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: more than a month trying to decide, you know, did 116 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: it strike the right tone, didn't give enough away without 117 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: getting too much away, that did it seem realistic? Um? 118 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: And he just thought his letter was good. He thought 119 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: it was good, like stop messing with jokes in there. 120 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: He was like, this is the best letter, This is 121 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: totally believable. But they didn't really so much agree. They 122 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that they got, like you said, 123 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: a little bit of information out there, you know, you 124 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: want an element of truth in it. To make it realistic. 125 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you don't want to give 126 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: the whole thing away. You don't want to just tell 127 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: them your plans by by trying to deceive them. Tell them, yes, 128 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: we're going to be in Sicily. Well, and guys like 129 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: that wouldn't be writing letters that gave away the whole 130 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: plan anyway. Right. Well, finally the chiefs of staff just 131 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: came up with a bright idea of having General Ni 132 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: draft the letter himself. And when he did this, it 133 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: just finally struck the right chord. I mean, I guess 134 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: that's sort of the obvious answer, but nobody had really 135 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: thought about it before for this more than a month 136 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: that they were debating it. Nice's version of the letter 137 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: hinted at this primary invasion in Greece and another elsewhere 138 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: in the Mediterranean, while mentioning Sicily as a diversionary location 139 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: where some smaller attacks might occur to confuse the Nazis. 140 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: Of course, they were going to be doing air raids 141 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: and everything anyway in preparation for their invasion, so this 142 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: sort of helped them with that too. It's like, hey, 143 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: if you see some mar raids happening, it's just a 144 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: defasion exactly, so they had to include another letter to 145 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: after this though. They were like, Okay, this sounds good, 146 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: but we need in another letter to explain why this 147 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: guy would be carrying a little place, right. So the 148 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: second one was from the Chief of Combined Operations to 149 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham, who was Commander in Chief in 150 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean, another well known figure that the Nazis would 151 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: have heard of, and this letter explained what Bill Martin 152 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: was doing traveling with this very important information in the 153 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: first place, and also hinted that a secondary invasion would 154 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: take place in Sardinia. I think they actually included kind 155 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: of a PostScript or a little joke at the end 156 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: of the letter that said, you know, maybe William Martin 157 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: can bring back some sardines with him or something. They 158 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: fit some jokes in there, didn't they did. They also 159 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: tested different typewriter inc. Because they needed to find one 160 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: that didn't become illegible after being in the water. They 161 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: needed one that was a regular, non spy inc. That 162 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't tip anybody off, but it could still be read 163 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: after all that time. And then they carefully folded and 164 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: field all these important letters. They photographed the steals that 165 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: they could easily tell if the letters had been tampered with, 166 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: and Ben McIntyre, the author who we mentioned in the 167 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: earlier episode, also described how an additional precaution was included. 168 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: They put a dark eyelash in the fold of each letter, 169 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: and so if the eyelash fell out, they'd know that 170 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: the letter had been read. Just a back up thing 171 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: to to provide even more caution than the seals. Yeah, 172 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: not exactly scientific, but kind of a neat detail to include. Anyway, 173 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: The letters were placed in a black government briefcase that 174 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: was chained to the corpses belt, even though they knew 175 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: that it seemed unlikely that Bill Martin would be carrying 176 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: letters this way, because it was really the only way 177 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: they could ensure that the letters wouldn't just float away 178 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: and that whoever found the body would actually notice the letters. 179 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: I mean, if they just kind of tucked it in 180 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: his jacket pocket or something, there was always the chance, 181 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: probably not, but always the chance that it would be overlooked. 182 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: So they sort of needed this as safeguard. After these 183 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: official letters were all complete, they sought and got final 184 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: approval for Operation Mints Neat from the highest authorities necessary, 185 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: Churchill and Eisenhower. So with all of these hard crafted 186 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: materials finally put together and the character of their corpse 187 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: career created, the British intelligence officers needed to nail down 188 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: some logistics, namely where they were going to drop the 189 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: body and how they were going to do it. So, 190 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: as we mentioned in the last episode, Spain in general 191 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: had already proven that it could be a prime location 192 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: for this type of operation because there was evidence that 193 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: they had passed on information to the Nazis in the past. 194 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: Even though Spain was officially neutral, there were some pretty 195 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: strong pro acts as sentiments prevalent in certain areas of 196 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: the country, and even in the highest arenas of the 197 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: government and law enforcement there were some pro access sentiments. 198 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: So this was what Chumley and Montagu were counting on 199 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: for the whole plan to really work. But they still 200 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: needed to hone in on an exact area of the 201 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: Spanish coast to drop the body because there were some 202 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: pro British Spaniards as well, and if they got their 203 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: hands on the body first, the documents might just be 204 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: returned without ever making it into the hands of the Germans. 205 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: So they consulted with the British naval attiche in Madrid, 206 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: Alan Hill Garth and his assistant as well, who helped 207 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: them settle on dropping the body near Velva on spain 208 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: southwest coast, since it was an area where a lot 209 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: of German influence was present. It was also the home 210 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: base of notorious German spy Adolf Klaus, who basically bought 211 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: off everyone who could in town and was responsible for 212 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: helping target British ships off the Spanish coast for U boats, 213 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: among other things. He had been in the service of 214 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: the Nazis for a while and was considered one of 215 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: their top spies. If something washed up on shore there, 216 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: it was guaranteed that Adolf Klaus would make it his 217 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,239 Speaker 1: business to find out about it. So, with the location 218 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: for the drop finally picked out, the next order of 219 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: business for Operation Mincemeat Planners was to determine how they 220 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: were going to drop the body. So the idea was 221 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: to make it seem as if Bill Martin had died 222 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: in a plane crash. You remember in the last episode 223 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: they had to find a body that didn't have, you know, 224 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: a telltale sign of death or a cause of death. 225 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: To make this plane crash idea seem realistic, but the 226 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: problem was if they actually dropped the body out of 227 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: a plane, it might completely break apart, since it had 228 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: already been decomposing for a couple of months in the Morgue. 229 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: So they had a few other options, and one was 230 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: to bring it in on a surface ship and sort 231 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: of drop it close to shore, but that wouldn't work 232 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: because they need to get pretty close to the shore 233 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: to drop the body to make sure that it didn't 234 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: float somewhere where they didn't want it to go. Another 235 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: option was landing a sea plane on the water, but 236 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: that seemed really complicated, really risky, and could possibly cause 237 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: a real plane crash, which would defeat the purpose of 238 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: the whole operation. So they finally decided that a submarine 239 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: was the way to go. That way, they could make 240 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: the drop at night and get pretty close to the shore, 241 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: and it just so happened that a submarine with a young, 242 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: well regarded commander, the HMS Sarah, was docked in Scotland 243 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: getting ready to return to the Mediterranean in April, so 244 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: it seemed perfect. And yet there was one little problem 245 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: with even this scenario to solve, and that was how 246 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: do you first of all, hide a body on a 247 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: submarine without everybody finding out about it, because of course 248 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: discretion was still of the most importance even among other 249 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: members of the British military. And secondly, how do you 250 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: keep this body fresh, so to speak, for the ride? 251 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: This major issue. I think that point sort of relates 252 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: to the earlier one. So Chumley found a solution to 253 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: both of these problems by consulting with Charles Fraser of 254 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: Q Branch, whose job was to provide the Secret Service 255 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: with all kinds of nifty wartime gadgets like indivisible ink, 256 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: hidden weapons, mini cameras. He worked with Ian Fleming too 257 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: in case that all found sort of familiar, and he's 258 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: believed to be the inspiration for Q in the James 259 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: Bond movies. Uh Coincidentally, M is said to be based 260 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: on Admiral John Godfrey, who was the trout memo guy. 261 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: So it was Fraser Smith who helped Chumley come up 262 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,119 Speaker 1: with the design for a giant steel canister, which McIntyre 263 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: refers to as quote the first underwater corpse transporter. It 264 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: was six ft six inches long and air tight to 265 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: keep oxygen out and which would help prevent the decomposition 266 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: of the body. They also planned to pack it with 267 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: dry ice to help with us with a body inside. 268 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: This canister would weigh in at about four hundred pounds. 269 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: Kind of a large can often almost so not something 270 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: to z too hide, No, not at all, um So. 271 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: With official approval though, and with a plan for logistics 272 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: even down to this underwater corpse transporter, all Montague and 273 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: Chumiley had to do at this point was put the 274 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: plan into action. So the HMS Sarah set sail from 275 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: Scotland on April nineteenth, and from there it would take 276 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: an estimated ten or eleven days to get to Ulva. 277 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: So Montague and Chumiley met up with their corner friend Bentley, 278 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: purchased and on April eighteen they finished dressing Glenn Michael's 279 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: body and prepared it for its journey as the fictional 280 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: Bill Martin. Then they loaded it into the giant canister, 281 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: put that into a customized van and headed off for Scotland, 282 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: driven by Sinjin Jock horse Full, who was a famous 283 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: race car driver who had turned into an m I 284 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: five chauffeur. Uh it was good he was a race 285 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: car driver because they were driving very fast. They drove 286 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: through the wee hours of the night at very high speeds. 287 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: They almost crashed a couple of times. Even because they 288 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: were keeping things so secret, they didn't use headlights. Yeah, 289 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: I mean, that was the not so good part about it, 290 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: I guess, is that they weren't using headlights and stngin Horsewall, 291 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: I should say. I didn't have the greatest eyesight from 292 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: what I understand, and he didn't wear glasses. Yes, indeed, 293 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: but they made it to Scotland by the morning of 294 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: the nineteenth safely, and with some help, got the canister 295 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: loaded onto the submarine, which set off when it was 296 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: supposed to, all without a hitch. Incidentally, the commander of 297 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: this submarine was the only one on it who was 298 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: fully aware of the plan. The officers were partially in 299 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: the know, and the crew had been told some other 300 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: cover story to explain to Canister, basically that they were 301 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: carrying meteorological equipment of some sort. Yeah. Sure. McIntyre suggests 302 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: that actually the crew did suspect there was a person 303 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: in this six foot six canister, and they started referring 304 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: to him as our pal Charlie, which I think might 305 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: be the most endearing aspect of this whole story, And 306 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: the Sarah reached Velva around ap planned, but they had 307 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: to wait for the perfect wind conditions that could carry 308 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: the body to shore, and that finally happened in the 309 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: early morning hours of April, so they surfaced. They got 310 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: as close to the shore as possible, closer than they 311 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: thought they could get, and the officers helped the commander 312 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: remove the body from the canister, inflate the life fest 313 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,719 Speaker 1: put the documents where they needed to be, and then 314 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: put the body in the sea. And after that the 315 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: Sarah headed back out to sea and sunk the canister. 316 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: All right, so safe travels Bill. But we've already explained 317 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: in the last episode how the body was found that 318 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: morning by a Spanish fisherman who brought it back to 319 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: shore all by himself. He couldn't get help from the 320 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: other fisherman. And with that, at least the very first 321 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: part of the plan had been accomplished, and had been 322 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: accomplished successfully. But really after that things did not go 323 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: smoothly at all. First of all, the local Spanish authorities 324 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: picked up the body. They turned it over to the 325 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: Spanish navy, which called up Francis Hasselton, who was the 326 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: local British Vice consul and the body was then transported 327 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: to the cemetery an autopsy was performed, you remember, not 328 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: something that they wanted to happen. That's why they made 329 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: the fake identity supposedly Roman Catholic. So a couple of 330 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: things went wrong, so the autopsy really got things off 331 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: to a bad start. The pathologists performing it noticed that 332 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: the rate of decomposition was faster than they were hoping 333 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: he would think it was, and estimated that the body 334 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: had been in the water for about eight to ten days. 335 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: So this already conflicted with some of the evidence that 336 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: had been planted on the body. Hasselton managed to cut 337 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: the autopsy short, though before anything else major got noticed. However, 338 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: there was still a little matter of the briefcase. The 339 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: Spanish navy lieutenant who was present at the autopsy had 340 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: it in his possession, and he had a pretty good 341 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: relationship with Hasselton, so he actually offered to hand it 342 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: over right then and there. But this was exactly what 343 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: the Allies did not want. The whole point, after all, 344 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: was to give the Germans a chance to catch a 345 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: glimpse of this stuff, so Hasselton had to kind of 346 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: act like it wasn't a big deal and just request 347 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: that it go through the official channels. You know. He 348 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: was just kind of like, Hey, I don't want you 349 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: to get in trouble with your boss. Why don't you 350 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: just go ahead and pass it on. We'll get it 351 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: back exactly. We'll get it back eventually. It's fine. But 352 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: it probably came off to this lieutenant and anyone else 353 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: who was present as a little bit strange that he 354 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: would want to do this. So, at least in some respects, 355 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: it seems like Castleton may have averted disaster a little bit. 356 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: But once the Navy lieutenant passed on the briefcase to 357 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: the superiors, the situation got worse for both the Germans 358 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: and the Allies. In fact, because even though as Chumley 359 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: and Montague had hoped, the German spy Adolf Klaus had 360 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: caught wind of the briefcase and it's important looking contents, 361 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: he couldn't manage to get his hands on it. And 362 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: this was because the Spanish Navy was pro British in general, 363 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: and if pretty much anyone else in town had had 364 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: possession of these goods, class would have been able to 365 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: get his hands on them pretty much right away. But 366 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: as it was he was out of luck. He just 367 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: could not find a way to get them. Yeah. So, 368 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: in the process of going through official channels, though, the 369 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: briefcase did finally make its way to Madrid, and in 370 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: the meantime the British had to pretend like they really 371 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: want this briefcase back, give it back to us. So 372 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: messages are just flying back and forth between London and 373 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: British officials in Spain, which have at least the positive 374 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: effect of making the Germans want the briefcase even more, 375 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: making the whole thing seemed more legitimate. Finally, nine days 376 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: after the body washed up, the letters did find their 377 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: way into the German hands, and it seemed as if 378 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: the pro Nazi Spanish security chief finally made this happen. 379 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: But regardless of how they got there, the letters did 380 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: end up with the German empathy in the hands of 381 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: Major Carl Cullin Tall, a well respected head of German 382 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: intelligence in Madrid. Clentel immediately bought into the information the 383 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: letters had to offer, and after seeing that they were 384 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: returned to their envelopes to be returned to the British, 385 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: he personally took copies of them back to German so 386 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: the ball was rolling at this point, and we should 387 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: take a minute here to kind of talk about how 388 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: they handled these letters, so to speak, because if you're 389 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: into spy stuff, it's really kind of interesting. The letters 390 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: had been carefully removed from the envelopes without breaking the seals, 391 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: so you almost couldn't tell that they had been tampered with. 392 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: How they did this was by bending open the lower 393 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: flap of the envelope and using a thin metal double 394 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: prong with a blunt hook to kind of roll the 395 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: paper into a cylinder. So they just made the smallest 396 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: opening in a bottom flap, stuck this double prong in, 397 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: and just sort of wounded around until they turned the 398 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: letter into a cylinder and then pulled it out. It out, 399 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,239 Speaker 1: but those tell tale eyelashes were missing, and there were 400 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: a few other clues that told the British later upon 401 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: examination that they had been viewed, So you could tell 402 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: if you really examine them closely, if you were an expert, 403 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: and you can to the naked eye, they seemed like 404 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: they hadn't been tampered with. Once the copies of these 405 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: letters were in Germany, though, the letters were immediately scrutinized 406 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: and some people were quite skeptical of them, actually, but 407 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: one of Hitler's top intelligence analysts, and that was Alexis 408 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: Baron von Wren, also accepted them as authentic. He seemed 409 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: to believe in them, pretty much a dent. Since Hitler 410 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: trusted Wren implicitly. This was a huge step forward for 411 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: Operation and Mince Meat. So about two to three weeks 412 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: after the body had first washed up in Huelva, the 413 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: letters made it to Hitler's death and he at first 414 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: was also pretty skeptical of the whole thing, but once again, 415 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: once Wren vouched for the letters, Hitler was convinced, and 416 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: soon word got through to London via wireless messages that 417 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: were intercepted by the British that the Germans had bought 418 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: into Operation Mincemeat and believed that Greece was really the 419 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: primary target. And everyone, especially Chumley and Montague, of course, 420 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: we're just completely overjoyed by this news, and for many 421 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: people involved it was their finest moment. The good news 422 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: was relayed to Winston Churchill by telegram like this mince 423 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: Meat swallowed road line and sinker. That was the message. 424 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: But does Operation mince Meat really deserve credit for its 425 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: own success? Some point out that the plan actually had 426 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: a lot of flaws, and they asked this question a lot. 427 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: I mean, some of the flaws we sort of hinted at, 428 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: I think when we were going through the story and 429 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: the preparations for the plan. The too good to be 430 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: true story of Bill Martin was one of the things 431 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: Well and the whole briefcase being chained to him. It 432 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: was an unavoidable part of the story, but probably the 433 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: least realistic aspect of it. In his New Yorker article, 434 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: which we mentioned in the previous podcast, Malcolm Gladwell points 435 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: out that the British also got some help from the 436 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: Germans in this situation. Major Carl Culantall, for example, he 437 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily as great an intelligence officer as most Germans 438 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: believed at the time. He was actually kind of a 439 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: screw up. He would believe and pass on just about 440 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: anything that was fed to him because he was so 441 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: eager to save his own hide. He was actually a 442 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: quarter Jewish and he was trying to sort of solidify 443 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: his position and show how loyal he was, and you know, 444 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: just shame like within the know, Yeah exactly, I'm the 445 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 1: one who's giving you this great information. Alexis Baron von 446 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: n Though we as we said, Hitler loved this guy 447 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: and totally trusted him because of past predictions he had 448 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: made that had indeed come to pass. Wren actually despised 449 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: Hitler and his regime. He was a smart intelligence analysts, 450 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: definitely better than Culental, but he probably put his stamp 451 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: of approval on those faked letters because he wanted to 452 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: sabotage Hitler. Regardless of why the plan worked though, or 453 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: why it was believed, thanks at least in part to 454 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: Operation Mincemeat, Operation Husky was considered a success and Hitler 455 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: was fouled. He sent about ninety thousand troops to grief. Meanwhile, 456 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty thousand Allied troops invaded Sicily on 457 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: July tenth, ninety three, and though they expected about ten 458 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: thousand casualties from that invasion, according to the BBC documentary 459 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: Operation Mincemeat, about fourteen hundred men and about a dozen 460 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: ships were lost, so way fewer than they were expecting, 461 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: and this set off it's chane of events that were 462 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: positive for the Allies and many believe changed the entire 463 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: course of the war. As for Bill Martin, that corpse 464 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: that washed up on the beach in Spain. Glim Michael, 465 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: as you remember, was his real name, and he was 466 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: buried in Spain in a grave numbered eighteen eighty six. 467 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: Eventually he was given a fake headstone that identified him 468 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: as Bill Martin, and then finally in nineteen the British 469 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: government had his real name put on his grave and 470 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: the story has just continued to fascinate people throughout the years. 471 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: Montague wrote a book himself called The Man Who Never 472 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: Was and there was a nineteen fifty six movie that 473 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: was based on this book. So so another movie to 474 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: add to our list of history movies we need to 475 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: see exactly. And I think we are back in the 476 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: swing of telling spy stories now. We both have spy 477 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: fever after researching this, and I think you've well come 478 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: across some other stuff too that's gotten you interested. I 479 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: was telling Dublina earlier that I'm on a Tinker Tailor 480 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: Soldiers spy kick after I read the book, then saw 481 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: the new movie, and just the other night finished watching 482 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: the excellent mini Theories. So yeah, I had spies spies 483 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: on the brain, although they're cold worth spies, so very 484 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: different from from this kind of stuff. And if you 485 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: like the story, I would really recommend researching it a 486 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: little bit more, either reading Montague book or McIntyre's book, 487 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: which we talked about, which is just I mean, we 488 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: mentioned a lot of names in this podcast and hopefully 489 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: it wasn't too confusing, but they're really just all fascinating 490 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: characters in their own right, and there were something that 491 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: we didn't even get a chance to mention that it 492 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: could be a podcasts all on their own, I think. 493 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: But if you have any podcast recommendations for us, any 494 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: spy story recommendations, maybe in particular that you'd like us 495 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: to do, or maybe you just want to write us 496 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 1: and tell us what's in your wallet litter, you can 497 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: certainly write us Where History Podcast at Discovery dot com, 498 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: or you can look us up on Facebook or on 499 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: Twitter at this in History. And if you want to 500 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: learn a little bit more about the artific spining, we 501 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: do have an article called how Spies Work. You can 502 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: find it by searching for spies on our homepage at 503 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: www dot how stuff works dot com. For more on 504 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff 505 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: works dot com