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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am

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Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple Coarclay, and Android Auto with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Alex Steal here alongside Paul sw We need this Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Intelligence Radio and everybody. We made it to Friday, but

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Speaker 2: not to disappoint the headlines keep coming that you mish

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Speaker 2: data coming out as paulishes talking about long term inflation

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Speaker 2: expectations hitting a thirty two year high.

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Speaker 3: You're looking at one.

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Speaker 2: Year inflation expectations jumping a four point nine percent. Joining

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Speaker 2: us now as Joanshue, University of Michigan Surveys of Consumers Director,

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Speaker 2: joining us, Joanne, what is behind the rise in inflation expectations?

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Speaker 4: Very clear? Consumers are really worried about the impact of

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Speaker 4: these policy changes, particularly these tariffs that are changing on

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Speaker 4: a daily basis, kind of policy going in circles. Consumers

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Speaker 4: are really worried this is going to pass through to

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Speaker 4: the prices that they see, and they're concern this is

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Speaker 4: going to be something that's going to affect not just

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Speaker 4: the short term, but the long run as well.

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Speaker 5: So, Juane, give us a CeNSE here, I mean the

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Speaker 5: University of Michigan sentiment. The headline number came in at

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Speaker 5: fifty seven point nine, consensus was sixty three. Prior period

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Speaker 5: was sixty four point seven. Give us a sense of

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Speaker 5: how rare is a rate of change like we're seeing

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Speaker 5: here this month. How rare or how common is that?

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Speaker 4: So what we saw this month was an eleven percent

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Speaker 4: drop that in itself may not be notable, but what

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Speaker 4: is criticals that it follows two other months, two previous

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Speaker 4: months of pretty strong declines. We're now down twenty two

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Speaker 4: percent from the very beginning of the year. That is

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Speaker 4: a pretty long sustained drop and it reverses six months

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Speaker 4: of increases that we were seeing at the end of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. So consumers are really concerned that we

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Speaker 4: are headed for a downturn. We saw deteriorating views of

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Speaker 4: about unemployment, about stock markets, about personal finances.

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Speaker 3: Across the board.

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Speaker 4: Consumers are seeing a lot of downside of risks in

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Speaker 4: the years ahead.

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Speaker 2: Joanne, Before we let you go, how split is it

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Speaker 2: among party lines?

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Speaker 4: What we saw was a decline and sentiment across Republicans, Independence,

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Speaker 4: and Democrats. This is not something that's being driven only

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Speaker 4: by people who are not fans of Trump. Across all

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Speaker 4: three political groups. We saw declines and sentiment.

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Speaker 3: All right, Jient, Thanks Lott.

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Speaker 2: We really appreciate Joannshoue, University of Michigan Surveys of Consumers.

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Speaker 2: Director love getting you on on This is so so important.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarclay and Android Otto

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Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 5: Alex Deal and Paul Sweeney we are live with you

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Speaker 5: here Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio in New York City. We're

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Speaker 5: also streaming live on youtubeesetever, YouTube dot com and search

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg Podcast Live and that's where you'll find it.

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Speaker 6: Is the PGA Tour.

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Speaker 5: Is it Punt de Vidra Beach, Florida for the Players

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Speaker 5: Championship this week? A lot of folks call it the

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Speaker 5: fifth Major. I believe our next guest may also be

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Speaker 5: in Punt de Vidra and I'm going to put the

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Speaker 5: two together and assume there's a Morgan Stanley event down there.

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Speaker 5: Kathy and TWISLM, Managing Director, Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management

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Speaker 5: and joints us here. Kathy, what are the conversations you're

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Speaker 5: having with your clients over the last couple of months.

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Speaker 5: I mean two months ago, socker market was all time high.

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Speaker 5: Everybody's feeling good. A little bit different here today.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, the conversations have definitely been more challenging. There's a

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Speaker 7: lot of anxiety and fear about the markets. But part

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Speaker 7: of our job is to walk them through it and

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Speaker 7: talk them through it and also talk about positioning and

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Speaker 7: maybe taking advantage of some of the market volatility to

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Speaker 7: reposition what we have in order to get on board

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Speaker 7: for the next phase of the market.

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Speaker 3: What is the next phase of the market?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, well, the.

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Speaker 7: Next phase of the market is basically trying to think

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Speaker 7: about who the new winners are, where the new opportunities

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Speaker 7: will be going forward. Also what type of you know,

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Speaker 7: whether it's on the equity side, you know, corporations, companies

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Speaker 7: that we're investing in different cap sizes, you know, large companies,

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Speaker 7: small companies, and mid companies if they're value or growth.

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Speaker 7: We like the mid growth area of the market. We

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Speaker 7: like the large value area of the market. We like

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Speaker 7: what we call it que GARB, which is quality growth

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Speaker 7: at a reasonable price. And we also like we're going

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Speaker 7: to start bringing in some of the duration a little

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Speaker 7: bit more based on where we are with the rates.

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Speaker 5: Kathy's I mean, we've just got that University of Michigan

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Speaker 5: data came out today and obviously the sentiment much lower

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Speaker 5: than forecast, inflation expectations much higher than consensus forecasts. Do

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Speaker 5: you get that sense when you talk to your Morgan

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Speaker 5: Stanley private wealth clients.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think this is not going to be an

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Speaker 7: easy year ahead. I think there'll be a lot of

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Speaker 7: bumps and volatility and a lot of sideways trading. So

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Speaker 7: it's more about understanding where are managing expectations and looking

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Speaker 7: just for the opportunities to make those shifts. Clients are

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Speaker 7: definitely more worried, you know, this year, especially in the

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Speaker 7: last couple of weeks. I've gotten a lot of phone calls.

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Speaker 7: We've had a lot of conversations, and we are just

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Speaker 7: for my clients personally. We're walking them through the process

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Speaker 7: and the markets and reminding them of all the times

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Speaker 7: we've had these kind of downturns and that they're very normal.

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Speaker 7: It's very normal to have a ten percent you know,

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Speaker 7: drop in the market every twelve.

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Speaker 3: Months, but the whippy headlines are not normal.

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Speaker 2: So how do you then filter the noise from the reality.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, again, it's it's looking at the metrics and the numbers.

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Speaker 7: You know, there's two different sides to the equation. There's

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Speaker 7: the pure quantitative side, the numbers and statistics and our

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Speaker 7: history and what we can think, you know, sort of

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Speaker 7: look forward to with knowing those numbers. And then there's

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Speaker 7: the qualitative side, the emotions and the challenges. So part

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Speaker 7: of our job is to take the qualitative side out

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Speaker 7: of it, take the emotions out of this and look

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Speaker 7: at it purely from where are the opportunities and how

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Speaker 7: can we keep our clients invested in the markets, Because

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Speaker 7: if you take your money out, you have the potential

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Speaker 7: to pay cap gain taxes. You also have the potential

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Speaker 7: to not know when the right time is to get

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Speaker 7: back in. So if you're positioned well and you're invested

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Speaker 7: in the right companies, that will turn around eventually. And

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Speaker 7: it's a patience game.

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Speaker 5: How does fixed income fixing fit into the discussions these days?

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Speaker 5: You're having kathy with your clients because they could sid

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Speaker 5: it a to your treasure. You can get about four

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Speaker 5: percent if you want to take creditists, they can get

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Speaker 5: a little bit more than that, and maybe in an

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Speaker 5: inviolable market that's not the worst thing. So how do

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Speaker 5: you talk about fixed income?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, So what we do is when we're talking about

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Speaker 7: fixed income, I've got an allocation for most of my

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Speaker 7: clients in municipal bonds in their taxable accounts and corporate

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Speaker 7: bonds in their retirement accounts. And they know that it's

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Speaker 7: an asset class that is typically non correlated to the

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Speaker 7: equity market. When we have volatility in the market, this

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Speaker 7: will be what keeps them up.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 7: It's like their portfolio up and buffered and a little

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Speaker 7: bit more on the conservative or safer side. And they're

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Speaker 7: getting in the same time, tax free income. And if

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Speaker 7: you're getting yields that are tax free, the taxicquipment meals

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Speaker 7: are higher than the four percent that you're talking about

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Speaker 7: with the treasuries.

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Speaker 2: What about in the corporate credit market. So there's a

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Speaker 2: lot been made about how equities are reflecting that recession sentiment,

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Speaker 2: but the high yield market has not been, but we

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Speaker 2: just started to see kind of spreads widening a little bit.

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Speaker 3: But investment grade still seems a little protected.

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Speaker 7: What do you think, Yeah, I've been giving my clients

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Speaker 7: an investment grade. I think it's just smarter. At this point,

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Speaker 7: you're not really getting paid the difference that you would

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Speaker 7: need to get paid to go for the high yields.

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Speaker 7: And I come from a time when we had a

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Speaker 7: lot of corporate de folds back in the eighties, so

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Speaker 7: I am very reminiscent of that, and I want to

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Speaker 7: stay away from any risk in my client's portfolios. They've

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Speaker 7: won the game. There's no need to take more risk

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Speaker 7: in something that's supposed to be a little bit more safer. Conservative.

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Speaker 5: That said, though, I hear a lot of registered investment advisors,

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Speaker 5: Kathy that talk about alternative investments as something their clients

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Speaker 5: really want allocation to it, and it's not just five

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Speaker 5: or ten percent, it can be twenty thirty percent. What

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Speaker 5: kind of the discussions you have with your clients about

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Speaker 5: alternative investments.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, we've been using alternative investment investments in our client's

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Speaker 7: portfolios as long as it's appropriate for them and they

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Speaker 7: qualify for it. But it's very interesting because that again

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Speaker 7: is non correlated. We do expect, for example, on the

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Speaker 7: credit side, you're talking about fixed income. On the credit side,

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Speaker 7: in alternatives, you can get higher yields, and some of

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Speaker 7: those can have some tax advantages to them if they

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Speaker 7: are involved in sort of you know, read or something

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Speaker 7: along those lines. So al terms, that are a great

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Speaker 7: way to get the diversification. Typically, I am looking to

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Speaker 7: get my clients invested twenty percent on average in alts,

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Speaker 7: depending on the size of their personal portfolios. And also

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Speaker 7: we're doing it over time. We're not doing all usually

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Speaker 7: in like one fell swoop, although now Evergreens, I'm sure

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Speaker 7: you guys are familiar with the evergreens, where if they

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Speaker 7: have more liquidity, they're more aligned with an investor's time

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Speaker 7: frame and goals, and so you can get more invested

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Speaker 7: without capital calls that way, which is really a nice

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Speaker 7: way to get clients invested in this part of the market.

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Speaker 3: All right, Kathy, thanks a lot. We really appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Kathy and Whistle, Managing director at Morgan Stanley Private Wealth Management.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy that weather in Florida.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's go back up to the colder weather in Canada.

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Speaker 2: Jessin Trudeau officially out Markcarney officially in this is a

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Speaker 2: different change now for the Canadian government. Creates an opening

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Speaker 2: for that government to reset its relationship with the US

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Speaker 2: and President Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: But will it.

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Speaker 2: Brian Platt, Bloomberg d and Government reporter joins us. Now, Brian, first,

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Speaker 2: before we get to the inner workings, do we even

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Speaker 2: know what a Carneie Trump relationship is before Carney took

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Speaker 2: the helm.

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Speaker 8: No, we have not had a chance to put this

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Speaker 8: question to Carne yet. I mean, Mark Carney really has

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Speaker 8: not done very much media. We're expecting a news conference

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Speaker 8: this afternoon, and I suspect he will be asked that

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Speaker 8: very question. So you know, whether they have any pre

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Speaker 8: existing relationship at all is one of the biggest questions

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Speaker 8: that I have right now. But I do think in general,

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Speaker 8: Carney is approaching this as a chance to ideally reset

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Speaker 8: the relationship that had become very tense and very even

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Speaker 8: hostile between President Trump and Prime Minister Trudeau.

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Speaker 5: Is there a sense that I mean, seeing this thing

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Speaker 5: seems to go one of two ways. Either you kind

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Speaker 5: of accept to a very large extent, the terms that

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Speaker 5: President Trump is offering as a release to tariff's or

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Speaker 5: you fight it, as it appears that Canada had been

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Speaker 5: doing perhaps more aggrestively than than anybody else out there.

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Speaker 5: Do we have any sense how mister Karney wants to

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Speaker 5: move that forward.

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Speaker 8: Well, he has said already he's not taking off Canada's

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Speaker 8: retaliatory tariffs until the US fully commits to you know,

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Speaker 8: a free, free and fair trade relationship. So that probably

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Speaker 8: means until the US lifts all the tariffs that it

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Speaker 8: is put on Canada. Because you know, I I was

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Speaker 8: dealing aluminum just recently, and there were other tariffs in

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Speaker 8: place from earlier March. So at the moment Carney has

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Speaker 8: promised to keep Canada's retaliation in place. I will also

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Speaker 8: say he's constrained by public opinion here. Canadian public opinion

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Speaker 8: is demanding retaliation and in fact probably wants even harsher retaliation.

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Speaker 8: So I will be very surprised if Carney softens too

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Speaker 8: much on this. But you know, if you can get

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Speaker 8: into a negotiation here, maybe there's room to adjust how

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Speaker 8: Canada is responding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I was down and who's in Texas at

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Speaker 2: Sarah Week, which is in a global energy conference. When

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Speaker 2: I was speaking off the record, people are like Canadians

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Speaker 2: are just mad, like full on mad. When we take

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Speaker 2: a look at the ability of the government in and

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Speaker 2: of itself to respond, there are many territories that have

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Speaker 2: free They all have free reign. The provinces can do

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Speaker 2: what they want. We saw that with Ontario. So what's

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Speaker 2: the coordination between say Carnee and the individual regions.

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Speaker 8: To some extent, provinces have free rein I mean this

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Speaker 8: is a you know, Canada's of federation, just like the

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Speaker 8: US is where states have certain powers in general on

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Speaker 8: international trade, it's the federal government and so most of

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Speaker 8: the tools that you retaliate on our federal tools. The

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Speaker 8: provinces have certain things that they can control. In Ontario's case,

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Speaker 8: it was the electricity system. So the province of Ontario

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Speaker 8: had briefly put in an export tax essentially on its

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Speaker 8: electricity trade with the US. But most when you talk

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Speaker 8: about count tariffs and things like that, that's all in

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Speaker 8: the federal government. Jurisdiction. The provinces are just looking at

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Speaker 8: some of the other things they can do. One of

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Speaker 8: the biggest things we've seen is provinces control their own

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Speaker 8: liquor distribution systems, and so quite a few provinces have

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Speaker 8: taken all American made liquor off the shelves until the

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Speaker 8: US lifts its tariff. So you do see some smaller,

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Speaker 8: sort of more targeted responses like that from the provincial level.

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Speaker 5: Brian, can you educate us as to when an election

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Speaker 5: may happen in Canada?

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Speaker 8: The most likely scenario is very soon. I think the

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Speaker 8: end of next week is what I'm looking at, and

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Speaker 8: that's sort of the conventional wisdom right now. So Mark

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Speaker 8: Karney will be sworn in today. I believe we've reported

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Speaker 8: he's about to go on a short europe trip to

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Speaker 8: France in England, which I will kind of be a

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Speaker 8: Monday Tuesday thing, I think, And then I suspect by

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Speaker 8: the end of the week, maybe even on the weekend,

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Speaker 8: he calls a staff election, and so in that case,

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Speaker 8: you're looking at an election date of late April or

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Speaker 8: early May.

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Speaker 5: And what are the polls showing now.

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Speaker 8: Well, they're changing. It's fascinating. The Conservatives in Canada under

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Speaker 8: Pierre Pauliev looked like they were cruising to a majority government.

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Speaker 8: They were up by twenty five points for most of

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Speaker 8: last year. It's we're now entering a dead heat, I mean,

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Speaker 8: and it's essentially because of Donald Trump's threats. Trudeau's resignation

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Speaker 8: has led to that as well in Carney's ascent to

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Speaker 8: the leadership. All right, but it's Trump's tariffs.

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Speaker 5: Yep, very good, Brian, Thank you so much for reporting.

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Speaker 5: We really appreciated Brian Platt, government reporter Bloomberg News. He's

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Speaker 5: in Ottawa. Talk about boots on the ground, folks. Get

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Speaker 5: that fantastic reporting. We'll stay on top of that election

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Speaker 5: that may come as soon as a week or two.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Coarclay, and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: One of the headlines today is that Gold broke three

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars an ounce.

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Speaker 3: I remember covering Gold when it wasn't even one thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars and outs.

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Speaker 2: So this is like for US gold nerds and gold bugs,

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Speaker 2: this is like a moment of balloons and stuff, and

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Speaker 2: that question becomes like how long can this last? Mike mcloon,

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence and your commodity strategist who was also covering

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Speaker 2: gold before it was even one thousand dollars nouns. Hey, Mike,

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Speaker 2: if I had told you twenty years ago gold will

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Speaker 2: be at three thousand, what kind of economy would that

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Speaker 2: have represented?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, it'd be there's significant inflation or severe deflation. I

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Speaker 9: think the key reason gold's rallying now is because it's

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Speaker 9: anticipating the deflation, significant potential deflation if US risks as

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Speaker 9: its most noted stock market continues to can either say

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Speaker 9: go down or mean revert because it went up so

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Speaker 9: much the last few years.

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Speaker 6: I think that's what's happening now.

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Speaker 9: The gold market's anticipating stock market going down. Okay, that

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Speaker 9: was been the best place to be along with cryptos

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Speaker 9: for decades now, along with high bond yields, and now

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Speaker 9: gold's starting to understand that, oh that rally.

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Speaker 6: Might be over.

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Speaker 9: And you're seeing that flows ETFs had outflows of four

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Speaker 9: years in a row, and they're really kicking in this year,

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Speaker 9: they're up about four percent, which would be the most

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Speaker 9: since twenty twenty.

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Speaker 5: And Alice, when I first met Mike years ago, when

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Speaker 5: we were first talking about him coming to Bloomberg, and

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Speaker 5: he said, Hey, Mike, put your commodities call, buy gold,

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Speaker 5: sell everything else.

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Speaker 6: I mean he's pretty.

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Speaker 3: Much always been right on that one. Already care at

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Speaker 3: that point, what's that?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that's all maybe already?

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Speaker 5: Yeah. So hey, Mike, how do you get a senseor

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Speaker 5: how of gold traders? I'm not sure if people trade

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Speaker 5: gold or they investing goal, but how did they feel

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Speaker 5: about valuation?

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Speaker 8: Like at some point people.

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Speaker 6: Say, oh, this this stock.

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Speaker 5: Has just gotten too far ahead of itself. Do we

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Speaker 5: ever say that about a commodity like gold?

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Speaker 9: Well I, Paul, I love how you go there, because

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Speaker 9: we know you're an equity person in valuations in your

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Speaker 9: brain in commodities. The main lesson you learn commodities is

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Speaker 9: they go down because they went up. That's why Crudell's

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Speaker 9: at sixty five.

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Speaker 6: Dollars a barrow. It went out too much. The big

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Speaker 6: difference is gold. The big difference is gold.

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Speaker 9: The key thing is, oftentimes you're trying to find a

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Speaker 9: cost of production is evaluation. We usually goes to what's happening.

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Speaker 9: What's different with gold. It's the only commodity that really

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Speaker 9: goes up over time continuously, partly because the supply can

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Speaker 9: only crease on average two percent forever, and it's harder

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Speaker 9: and harder to produce, and it's monetary value.

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Speaker 6: So that's what's the significance of gold.

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Speaker 9: Gold is up about sixty five percent since February of

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Speaker 9: twenty and twenty that's when the announcement between of the

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Speaker 9: unlimited French rate friendship between President and zeeing President Putin,

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Speaker 9: and it's continuing now. The key thing it's looking forward

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Speaker 9: is we're seeing deflationary forces in China potentially kicking over

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Speaker 9: in this country.

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Speaker 6: And I'm really worry now.

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Speaker 9: I don't want gold to stay above three thousand, but

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Speaker 9: I think it will, particularly because of the reasons I'm

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Speaker 9: worried about. Is the US stock market having a bit

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Speaker 9: of a normal correction now ten percents, nothing compared to

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Speaker 9: what usually happens when you have a major shift, which

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Speaker 9: we're having a paradigm shift. And what's happening in the US,

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Speaker 9: maybe how about twenty or thirty percent in stock market

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Speaker 9: That means gold continues higher. So I'm worried at these levels,

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Speaker 9: but I think it's going to continue rally for reasons

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Speaker 9: that are going to hurt most investors unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: Is it also to do with this idea that maybe

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Speaker 2: the government could mark to market their gold reserves and

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Speaker 2: then confiscate gold in order to use that and sort

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Speaker 2: of ramp up the federal the Fed's balance sheet.

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Speaker 3: Now many individuals are going to roll their.

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Speaker 2: Eyes at this and say, oh my god, Alex, seriously,

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Speaker 2: but no, seriously. Could this also be driving some of

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Speaker 2: the last minute buyers.

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Speaker 6: I think that's part of it, Alex.

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Speaker 9: What we're seeing is a major shift of gold coming

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Speaker 9: to the US because the disparities and US COMEX traded

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Speaker 9: gold versus what trades in London. That's usuly indicative of

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Speaker 9: bull market. That whole scenario, I think is part of it.

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Speaker 9: Seems kind of odd to me. Whatever you have the

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Speaker 9: price on the books or not, is it's still US

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Speaker 9: still has about eight thousand tons of gold.

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Speaker 6: It's on it the books at forty two.

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Speaker 9: Dollars an ounce. Okay, it should be marked the market.

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Speaker 9: Why not market? I'm just not the accountant, so I

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Speaker 9: don't really get why that's going to matter for the

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Speaker 9: price of goal.

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Speaker 6: It's a global commodity, and I always one thing I've

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Speaker 6: always enjoyed in.

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Speaker 9: The space of gold bugs is a estate it's manipulated

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Speaker 9: like in the US.

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Speaker 6: Like well, it's a global commodity.

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Speaker 9: It's kind of hard to manimplate something you can trade

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Speaker 9: around the world, and people in India and China hoard

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Speaker 9: it for a good reason historically and particularly Turkey. But

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Speaker 9: I look at that is gold has a good reason

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Speaker 9: to keep going up. And that's particularly because what's just start.

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Speaker 9: One key fact is at the end of last year

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Speaker 9: the US stock market captain GDP was about two x.

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Speaker 9: Now it's going back downward. It's down about six trillion

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Speaker 9: dollars this year. That's twenty percent of GDP. I mean,

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Speaker 9: that's a ten. And what really matters for deflation if

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Speaker 9: that continues, that's what pressures bond yields lower, pressures the

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Speaker 9: FED to ease pressure's inflation, and makes gold go higher.

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Speaker 9: To me, that's the ten that matters in gold. And

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Speaker 9: then there's all those little nuances in between that you

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Speaker 9: see in a normal bull.

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Speaker 6: Market outside of gold.

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Speaker 5: What looks good to you in your space your commodity space.

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Speaker 9: Well, what's been oddly looking really good is copper, and

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Speaker 9: I'm really not on board that trade. Fundamentally, US trade

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Speaker 9: of copper's bumping up against the highest price ever, which

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Speaker 9: was forty four in February of twenty twenty two. I

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Speaker 9: mentioned that month earlier, actually March, and it keeps bumping up,

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Speaker 9: but it's for the wrong reasons. It's because of that

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Speaker 9: disparity between the price that trades on the CME, which

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Speaker 9: is right now about four hours and ninety cents, and

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Speaker 9: price that trades on the LME in London. It's because

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Speaker 9: US terraces, but generally means that will be offset, money

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Speaker 9: will flow, the arbitrage will kick in. It doesn't, so

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Speaker 9: I look at industrial metals as a whole indication copper

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Speaker 9: is a bit of a nuance. Industrial metals versus gold

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Speaker 9: are showing severe global deflationary potential forces gold going up

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Speaker 9: and dustrial metals not going up as much.

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Speaker 6: Copper just doesn't seem like.

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Speaker 9: It can stay up this level levels too much unless

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Speaker 9: China really kicks in. And yeah, they're bouncing, but I

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Speaker 9: don't really see it. With tariff's just starting to accelerate.

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Speaker 3: Oh, such a good point.

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Speaker 2: Such a good point if those deflationary forces are going

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Speaker 2: to drag down copper as well. Mike's super great. I

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Speaker 2: didn't do a year butt for you. I agree, but

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Speaker 2: everything you said, all right, Mike, thanks a lot. Mike

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Speaker 2: Maglow and Boomberg Intelligence senior commodity strategist joining us on gold.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

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Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live each

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Speaker 1: weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube

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Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal