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Speaker 1: Finely, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest,

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Speaker 1: whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things

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Speaker 1: are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report. If there

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Speaker 1: be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think

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Speaker 1: on these things Philippians four eight. Heavenly Father, help me

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Speaker 1: to always fill my mind with thoughts that are pleasing

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Speaker 1: to you. Help me to see life and the people

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Speaker 1: with your eyes of love, and look at the heart

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Speaker 1: of a person and not the externals. Help me to

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Speaker 1: dwell on what is true, for you are the way,

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Speaker 1: the truth, and the life. You are the one, true,

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Speaker 1: living God, and I want to always evaluate a situation

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Speaker 1: through that truth. Help me focus on what is honest,

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Speaker 1: just and pure. There is so much corruption in this world,

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Speaker 1: filled with lies and perversions. Help me counter that with

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Speaker 1: your vision of loveliness. Every one deserves love and is

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Speaker 1: precious in your sight. You have called me to be

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Speaker 1: a royal priesthood, so help me think and act in

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Speaker 1: alignment with that noble character. Help me to be humble

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Speaker 1: and authentic, not phony and pretentious. Help me bring out

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Speaker 1: the best in others, and always look for the good

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Speaker 1: and not the worst. You see what is beautiful and

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Speaker 1: lovely in me, and that is your son, Jesus. Teach

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Speaker 1: me to look for the beauty in every situation and

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Speaker 1: not the ugly. It's too easy to point fingers and

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Speaker 1: judge and condemn those who don't agree with me. Forgive

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Speaker 1: me for being quick to judge others and think the worst.

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Speaker 1: I want to praise the good reports and encourage those

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Speaker 1: who are growing in faith and virtue in Jesus' name. Amen,

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Speaker 1: thank you for listening to today's Daily Prayer for more

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Speaker 1: inspiration and an incredible message from our feature pastor. Stay

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Speaker 1: tuned to pray dot COM's Sunday service.

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Speaker 2: And I remember sitting in the car and I just

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Speaker 2: I was just crying, and I remember the Lord just said,

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Speaker 2: grief is an ongoing part of your journey throughout your

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Speaker 2: child's entire life. And seventeen years later, I see that

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Speaker 2: so clearly because recently it's him not getting a driver's license,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's him saying to me, Mom, why can't

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Speaker 2: I be like my older brothers and play basketball?

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Speaker 3: Amy, Sarah Carrie, welcome, Thank you for having us. It's

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Speaker 3: so good to have you here. And I said this

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Speaker 3: a moment ago off Mike but your heroes and your

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Speaker 3: husbands as well, and just in that you don't have

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Speaker 3: what some people consider normal, right, the normal situation, so

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Speaker 3: you get a lot of curveballs, and we want to

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Speaker 3: talk about that today. Let's start with a quick overview

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Speaker 3: of each of your family situation. Amy, you have the

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Speaker 3: A name, so let's see you know, we're right back

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Speaker 3: in school. What's your situation for the listeners and viewers?

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Speaker 4: Well, and Amy Brown. I live in Michigan with my

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Speaker 4: husband David. We've been married thirty eight years. We were

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Speaker 4: high school sweethearts. We have three biological kids, and then

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Speaker 4: we brought three adopted kids into our home. When we

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Speaker 4: brought them in our home, we did not realize that

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Speaker 4: they had disability because they didn't have physical disabilities, right.

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Speaker 4: Two of our daughters have attachment disorder and mental health

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Speaker 4: struggles feed alcohol. And then our son we adopted from

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Speaker 4: an orphanage when he was ten. He lived in Bulgaria

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Speaker 4: and we adopted him and he also has attachment and

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Speaker 4: mental health issues. But he also has a physical disability

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Speaker 4: called Arthur Gray Pos's, which kind of looks like polio

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Speaker 4: as small statued, very difficult time walking, can't vent his joints.

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Speaker 4: He's fairly self sufficient, so we knew that he had

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Speaker 4: that physical disability, and we knew that he would have

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Speaker 4: some issues because of being raised in an orphanage. So

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Speaker 4: that's our family six, and we're.

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Speaker 3: Going to dive more into that story because the demands

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Speaker 3: that that has placed on the family are quite steep,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it helps people connect with what's required

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Speaker 3: when this happens. And so all right, Sarah, let's talk

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Speaker 3: about your family history.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I'm Sarah Cleme. I live in Missouri with my husband, Craig.

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Speaker 5: We've been married for We just figured this out last night,

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Speaker 5: twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: Years this year, congratulations.

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Speaker 6: And we have two sons.

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Speaker 5: Our oldest is almost twenty four and our youngest is

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Speaker 5: almost twenty. And our youngest is the one with disabilities.

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Speaker 5: His name is TJ. And he was diagnosed at his

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Speaker 5: eighth birthday. He just wasn't walking properly and we took

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Speaker 5: him in for physical therapy and somebody noticed his calves

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Speaker 5: looked very defined, and somebody just knew what to look for.

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Speaker 5: So it's a rare form of muscular gystrophy. It's aggressive, progressive,

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Speaker 5: and it's terminal and at the time of diagnosis. He

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Speaker 5: was given a life expectancy of average of twenty three.

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Speaker 5: So much has been done that now we see men

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Speaker 5: living into their thirties, sometimes even forties. So that was

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Speaker 5: our story. We had no clue until one day everything

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Speaker 5: flipped on its head.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Carrie.

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Speaker 7: Hi, I'm Carrie. I'm from Ohio.

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Speaker 2: I've been married to my husband, Bruce for twenty four

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Speaker 2: years this year.

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Speaker 3: This is not a math test, by the way, make

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Speaker 3: sure you guys know how long you've been married.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's easy because we were married in two thousand.

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Speaker 7: But yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We have four kids that are twenty, nineteen, seventeen, and fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Three sons and then a daughter at the end. And

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Speaker 2: our seventeen year old son, Toby, was born with Spina beeffitta.

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Speaker 2: He was actually prenatally diagnosed. I went in for my

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Speaker 2: twenty week aultarsound, and then when he was two and

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Speaker 2: a half weeks old, he went into respiratory failure and

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Speaker 2: we went back and spent over two months at the

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Speaker 2: hospital there in Columbus, Ohio. When he came home, we

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Speaker 2: had a medically fragile baby. He was hooked up to

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Speaker 2: a feeding pump twenty hours a day had a trake

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Speaker 2: and a ventilator. He still has this trake. He's still

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Speaker 2: on his ventilator when he sleeps. And we've also I

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Speaker 2: usually call myself the hospital stay expert because he's had

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Speaker 2: over sixty surgeries in his lifetime. Most of those were

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Speaker 2: within the first fourteen to fifteen years of his life.

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Speaker 2: And we've ridden a lot of rollercoasters and had a

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Speaker 2: lot of curve balls.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me start the other direction now, So Carrie,

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Speaker 3: I'll start with you. When you received the diagnosis and

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Speaker 3: your world changed, How did it make you feel? How

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Speaker 3: did you respond to that? Is it a you know? Again,

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Speaker 3: for those of us that I have not had that situation,

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Speaker 3: help us better understand what that is like when the

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Speaker 3: doctor sits down with you and says, well, this will

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Speaker 3: be what the rest of his or her daughter's son's

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Speaker 3: life will be like.

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Speaker 2: So well, first of all, it was devastating. My husband

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Speaker 2: said that he could tell by the doctor's face that

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Speaker 2: something was going on.

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Speaker 7: I was a little bit oblivious to it, and actually.

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Speaker 2: He did almost pass out, and I can tell that

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Speaker 2: story with his permission. It was kind of some leving.

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Speaker 2: It was overwhelming in the moment, but it was.

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Speaker 7: His stomach dropped.

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Speaker 2: It was completely overwhelming, and I remember going and sitting

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Speaker 2: in the car and just you just have a certain

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Speaker 2: expectation of what your life's going to look like. Our

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Speaker 2: kids are eighteen months apart and then twenty two months apart.

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Speaker 2: So these two little healthy baby you know, taller boys

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Speaker 2: at home.

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Speaker 7: Life is great.

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Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, and I had some

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Speaker 2: experience with disability. I knew a girl was spinding benefit

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Speaker 2: in our church and had grown up with a friend

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Speaker 2: that had Down syndrome. But I remember thinking growing up,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be a mom. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to be a special needs mom. And there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of grief that is actually I've learned ongoing through the journey.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't just a one. In the beginning, I thought

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Speaker 2: it was just one and done, and it's not one

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Speaker 2: and done.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how about you, Sarah.

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Speaker 5: I actually worked for an orthopedist at the time, and

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Speaker 5: he was the one that put my son into physical

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Speaker 5: therapy just because he had an awkward gait. And I

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Speaker 5: took a phone call. The receptionist just happened to step away,

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Speaker 5: and it was New Year's Eve twenty eleven, and I

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Speaker 5: took a phone call and they said, we have a

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Speaker 5: concern with a patient, and I knew it was the

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Speaker 5: pediatric physical therapist and we only saw adults and my

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Speaker 5: son was the only one that we had referred over there,

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Speaker 5: and so kind of stick my head in the sand,

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Speaker 5: I just said, okay, well can I have the patient's name?

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Speaker 5: And he said my son's name, and I said, well,

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Speaker 5: I'm his mom, and he just wouldn't talk to me,

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Speaker 5: and I could tell in his voice. So I called

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Speaker 5: the doctor that I worked for and he said, well,

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Speaker 5: we actually have another that noticed two days ago because

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Speaker 5: we had him into a different doctor for some dyslexia.

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Speaker 5: And they said not to panic and not to get

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Speaker 5: on the internet. So the first thing I did was

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Speaker 5: get on the internet. But I realized I didn't know

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Speaker 5: what I was looking for. I didn't even know how

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Speaker 5: to spell it. And so we waited two months before

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Speaker 5: we were able to get in to see a doctor

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Speaker 5: about two hours away, and she took one look, he

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Speaker 5: got up off the floor. She had him walk a

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Speaker 5: little bit, and then she had a nurse take him

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Speaker 5: out to a play area and she said, well, you

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Speaker 5: have a Duchen boy, and here's a free camp and

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Speaker 5: we'll see you back in six months.

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Speaker 6: Just take him home and love him.

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Speaker 5: There was basically basically she's there's nothing you can do

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Speaker 5: but love him.

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Speaker 6: And so wow, that.

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Speaker 3: Sounds so in many ways right, but empty it did.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's all I can do.

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Speaker 6: Right right? And we had no no.

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Speaker 5: I had looked at it because I had gone on

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Speaker 5: the internet and I noticed he was doing something called

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Speaker 5: a Gower's maneuvers, how you stand up off the floor,

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Speaker 5: and I recognized it immediately.

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Speaker 3: It was different than other kids.

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Speaker 5: It was different, yes, and it was very specific to

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Speaker 5: this specific diagnosis. And my husband just refused to believe it,

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Speaker 5: so he started he started arguing with the doctor.

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Speaker 6: He's like, well, can't it be this well, can't it

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Speaker 6: be this type of muscular distrip fee?

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Speaker 5: And I just finally put my hand on his leg

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Speaker 5: and I said, no, it's dushen.

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Speaker 6: So we knew we needed to do something.

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Speaker 5: Not we weren't under any illusions of or delusions of curing.

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Speaker 6: It, but we knew we needed to.

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Speaker 5: We we had loving them downpat we needed to do

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Speaker 5: something to give them a quality of life.

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Speaker 3: I can't imagine that feeling of the unknown but known,

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Speaker 3: right right, it's a weird comment. Amy. How about how

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Speaker 3: about you that moment when you're you know, you adopted

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Speaker 3: your your kids, and you're going, okay, there's something going

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Speaker 3: on here. Yours is very different because it's not physical, right,

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Speaker 3: And in that context, I'm so glad that you're part

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Speaker 3: of this because it's it's a different thing, an observation

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Speaker 3: that trauma has caused mental disconnections for these children. So

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Speaker 3: describe that moment when you and your husband are going.

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Speaker 4: Okay, right. I didn't have like a minute where someone

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Speaker 4: handed me a diagnosis. We adopted our first child and

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Speaker 4: we did not know any teaching or understanding about trauma.

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Speaker 4: So initially I just thought she's different because she's not

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Speaker 4: my biological kids. You know, she's acting differently. My first

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Speaker 4: aha moment was one that filled me with a lot

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Speaker 4: of guilt and shame because she had a seizure. She

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Speaker 4: was having some kind of X ray amri I can't remember,

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Speaker 4: and she was in the machine and when they pulled

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Speaker 4: her out of the machine, then technician said, okay, Mama,

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Speaker 4: pick her up and hold her like she likes to

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Speaker 4: be held. And I stood there like frozen, and my

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Speaker 4: gut just dropped like, I don't know how she likes

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Speaker 4: to be held, and I felt so much shame, like

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Speaker 4: what kind of mom does know how to hold their child?

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Speaker 4: And that it didn't occurred to me at that moment,

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Speaker 4: And I did not know in that moment that she

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Speaker 4: had fetal alcohol and attachment issues and she didn't like

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Speaker 4: to be held right And looking back, I can remember

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Speaker 4: she'd push us away, but she would go to strangers,

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Speaker 4: which is really common in kids with attachment issue, you know,

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Speaker 4: because we're the they're not. They don't feel safe with us,

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Speaker 4: the people that know love them the most and the

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Speaker 4: nurturing caregivers. So for us, it was just a journey

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Speaker 4: of what's going on with this kid? And with mental

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Speaker 4: health and invisible disabilities, it's a hard journey to figure

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Speaker 4: out what the actual diagnosis is.

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Speaker 3: Yours is kind of unraveling as you go over the

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Speaker 3: years because it's not a physical again, a physical diagnosis.

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Speaker 3: Let me let me ask you about the issue of grief.

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Speaker 3: I think, Carrie, you you started that, you mentioned that

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Speaker 3: briefly about grief. You almost feel guilty having grief, you know, like,

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Speaker 3: what kind of Christian am I if I can't do this?

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Speaker 3: And you know, we again, we tasted that with our

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Speaker 3: foster experience, but we didn't have to live it every day.

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Speaker 3: That could be quite a load a the grief, which

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Speaker 3: is normal. So I guess the question is, how do

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Speaker 3: you grieve that in a way that's healthy and not

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Speaker 3: adding more shame to whatever shame you might have already.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the things we've talked about and

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Speaker 2: I've learned is there's a lot of shoulds around grief.

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Speaker 2: I should not feel this way, or I should feel

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Speaker 2: this way, or my husband should using this support for me,

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Speaker 2: or he should be grieving at the same rate that

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Speaker 2: I am grieving. And I think that's one thing that

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Speaker 2: I've learned is that we can't live in the shame

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Speaker 2: of the shoulds of grief. I know I had a

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Speaker 2: friend tell me once, you know, because I haven't lost

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Speaker 2: a child, I don't feel like I should be grieving

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Speaker 2: because my child is still alive, but if there's still

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Speaker 2: loss there, and I think identifying and naming the loss

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Speaker 2: and what that looks like is really important and speaking

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Speaker 2: into that. I can remember my son was five years old.

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Speaker 2: We had just gotten out of a week long hospital

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Speaker 2: stay where we had taken the ambulance to the hospital,

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Speaker 2: and then we left the inpatient hospital stay and went

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Speaker 2: to a doctor's appointment and found out he needed surgery,

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Speaker 2: and that five days stay. My older kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: I missed out on games, I missed out on school activities.

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Speaker 2: My daughter was home and she was, you know, a toddler,

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Speaker 2: and she didn't know where mama was.

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Speaker 7: And I remember I actually went to the library.

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Speaker 2: To return some books that my daughter had kind of

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Speaker 2: like ruined as a toddler.

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Speaker 7: You know how they just kind of do whatever they

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Speaker 7: want with books.

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Speaker 3: We have no idea where you're doing.

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Speaker 2: And I walked up to the desk and the lady

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Speaker 2: just she had no compassion whatsoever. I was going to

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Speaker 2: have to pay full price to replace these books. And

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Speaker 2: I remember sitting in the car and I just I

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Speaker 2: was just crying, and I remember the Lord just said,

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Speaker 2: grief is an ongoing part of your journey throughout your

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Speaker 2: child's entire life. And seventeen years later, I see that

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Speaker 2: so clearly because recently it's him not getting a driver's license,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's him saying to me, Mom, why can't

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Speaker 2: I be like my older brothers and play basketball? And

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Speaker 2: I'm also identifying that he's on his own grieving journey

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Speaker 2: because he's verbal and he can process this with me.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the things that I've learned about

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Speaker 2: grief is that it's important for us to feel those

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Speaker 2: feelings and when the waves of grief come, you know,

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Speaker 2: I saying, I journal and then also just to turn

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Speaker 2: it over to the Lord repeatedly. And I've found so

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Speaker 2: much comfort in scripture of David and job and being

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Speaker 2: honest with God.

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Speaker 7: But that also takes trust with God.

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Speaker 3: That's so true. Amy. Let me ask you about your

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Speaker 3: lilac bush comparison there, because I thought it was really

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Speaker 3: good and explain it to us.

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Speaker 4: Well, we had moved into a new house and I

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Speaker 4: was really looking forward to the lilac bushes that were

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Speaker 4: gonna blow in the spring. I love lilacs, and I

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Speaker 4: noticed after we'd been in the house a few months

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Speaker 4: that the lilac wishes looked dead, and I got kind

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Speaker 4: of crazy about it. I looked at all my neighbor's

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Speaker 4: lilac bushes and I was like, can I get fertilizer?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Can I put fertilizer? I actually told my husband can

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Speaker 4: we rip them up and buy newes? I was so

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Speaker 4: focused on wanting this beautiful flower. And I tell that

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Speaker 4: story in the book because with grief, like I was

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Speaker 4: so focused on what wasn't there, that's all I could

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Speaker 4: think about. How can I make what's not here be here?

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Speaker 4: And I think it's really common in all special needs families,

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Speaker 4: but with kids with behavioral issues and kids that don't

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Speaker 4: attach to you, there's not a loving bond there and

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Speaker 4: that's very painful to walk through. And so a lot

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Speaker 4: of times, just like my Lilacs, I just didn't want

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Speaker 4: to wait. By the way, they didn't eventually bloom, they

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Speaker 4: were just late bloomers. I wanted to take all my

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Speaker 4: focus and energy to make it make them bloom. And

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Speaker 4: I think grief can sometimes look like that. It can

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Speaker 4: look like trying really hard. It doesn't always look like crying.

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Speaker 4: It looks like anger trying really hard. And so I've

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Speaker 4: had to learn I am not going to have the

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Speaker 4: relationship with my kids with attachment disorder that I wanted,

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Speaker 4: But I can see what is there. I think when

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Speaker 4: we continue to look at I wish it was this.

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Speaker 4: I wish we could just get here. And I do

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Speaker 4: think with behavioral issues, because it's kind of a silent

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Speaker 4: suffering you're doing because the behavior is hard. People don't

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Speaker 4: understand what's going on. They think your parenting's terrible. That

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Speaker 4: you kind of isolate yourself and say, if I just

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Speaker 4: try harder, if I just find the right combinations, this

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Speaker 4: is going to be better. And I had to learn

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Speaker 4: to say, these are the small moments of grace and

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Speaker 4: beauty that God has put in my life every day.

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Speaker 4: They may not look like I thought they were going

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Speaker 4: to look, but that this helps me. It's like small

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Speaker 4: SIPs of grace every day instead of looking at this

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Speaker 4: big destination. I just had to learn that to be

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Speaker 4: a attentive to those moments. Yeah, of what we have.

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Speaker 3: You know, as you're describing it for us, it sounds

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Speaker 3: like an amplification of what we all experience. But you

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Speaker 3: guys have this magnifying glass on it that makes it

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Speaker 3: bigger and right in your face. Whereas we're all learning

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Speaker 3: these lessons, some of us without as much acuity as

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Speaker 3: you're seeing it, because again, it's so right there for you,

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Speaker 3: and you have to deal with it, whether it's grief

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Speaker 3: or loss of a dream or the things you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm hearing from your hearts. And I don't

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Speaker 3: know that we that don't have this situation are as

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Speaker 3: aware of our own shortcomings and issues as you will be,

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Speaker 3: because it's just right there is that fair? Have you

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Speaker 3: noticed that as moms do? Do you feel like some

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Speaker 3: of the moms that don't have special needs children like

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Speaker 3: they're kind of back in at square one with some things?

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Speaker 3: It does require you to be in tune with things

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Speaker 3: that many of us would not be in tune with.

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Speaker 3: Does that resonate with you?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's like a crash course. It's almost

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Speaker 5: you know where you're it seems like you're flying through life.

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Speaker 5: And I have joked around that my life sometimes seems

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Speaker 5: like that whack a mole game that you know, you

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Speaker 5: go and it's like like, Okay, I got it, I'm

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Speaker 5: gonna pop my head back up and nope, life says, no,

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Speaker 5: you don't. And but that's just it is. It's amplified.

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Speaker 5: And I think that's a really great word.

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Speaker 6: It's not.

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Speaker 5: Ours isn't worse or better than anybody's. It's just we

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Speaker 5: are in this twenty four seven and some of us

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Speaker 5: it's even in the middle of the night, it's alarms

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Speaker 5: going off or things happening or you know, just surgeries

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Speaker 5: and here we go again.

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Speaker 6: And so yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: Well, and it gets down to some basic things about

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Speaker 3: us as human beings. I mean at the core. I mean, John,

381
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Speaker 3: how many programs does this theme come up? Our selfishness?

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Speaker 3: I mean you look at the context of marriage, whoa.

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Speaker 3: I mean, our selfishness rises, and then parenting our selfishness rises.

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Speaker 3: You guys, you get it beat out of you. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's selfish I'm not selfish. I'm just trying to survive.

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Speaker 3: And it's just there day after day. But the irony

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Speaker 3: of it, the good thing of it is you learn it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what God is trying to teach all of

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Speaker 3: us and becoming more selfless you have to, right, And

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Speaker 3: it's an odd thing to think of that as a blessing. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 3: do you feel like, Okay, in the big scheme of

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Speaker 3: my spiritual development, this is a great blessing.

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Speaker 7: I think.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: It's taken me a long time to get there, and

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Speaker 2: there's certainly days I don't feel that way.

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Speaker 7: You know, Oh, of course it's but I think.

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Speaker 2: If I'm completely honest, I know I have said this before,

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Speaker 2: I don't think if we would have had Toby, I would.

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Speaker 7: Have relied on God the way that I've learned.

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Speaker 2: Too, because as Amy said, I was grasping for control.

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Speaker 2: As soon as I kind of got over the sorrow

403
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Speaker 2: of his diagnosis, all of a sudden, it was like, Okay,

404
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Speaker 2: here you go. You have this doctor's appointment, this tour

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Speaker 2: of the Niku, this surgeon to meet with, and I

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Speaker 2: just started controlling everything. And so if the Lord hadn't

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Speaker 2: allowed this in my life, it would be a really

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Speaker 2: different person. It might have been another trial that he

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Speaker 2: allowed to happen.

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Speaker 3: But it's like the Lord to turn everything upside down.

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Speaker 3: Those of us that don't struggle with the things you're

412
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Speaker 3: struggling with, you know, wow, aren't we happy? But we're

413
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Speaker 3: not learning the lessons that we should learn. And then

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Speaker 3: in God's economy, you're so far out in front of

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Speaker 3: some people, maybe most people. You know, we're right here

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Speaker 3: on earth. Everything our existence is about here. And now

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Speaker 3: it's hard for us to think of heaven and eternity

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Speaker 3: and no more tears, no more sorrow. How does the

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Speaker 3: idea of thinking to the future for your children, where

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Speaker 3: they are healed, they are complete there with the Lord,

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Speaker 3: they are forever going to be okay, do you think

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Speaker 3: about that?

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Speaker 5: I think in our situation, because we have that terminal

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Speaker 5: word that is always over our head that I know,

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Speaker 5: short of something catastrophic, I will bury my child. And

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Speaker 5: so it took me a long time to realize. It

427
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Speaker 5: was almost like God was like, but he's not yours,

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Speaker 5: he's alone, he's mine, and he's exactly the way I

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Speaker 5: want him, and I will get him back and have

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Speaker 5: him exactly the way I want him. So that took

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Speaker 5: a lot of time to figure that out. But I

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Speaker 5: know I look to heaven and I think kind of

433
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Speaker 5: almost what you said, your children are. I can't wait

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Speaker 5: to see how.

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Speaker 4: He is.

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Speaker 5: But I just think his heart is exactly the way

437
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 5: his heart needs to be.

438
00:22:58,359 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 6: Right now.

439
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 5: We don't have the behavior issues. In fact, I have

440
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 5: the opposite. It's always I love you, I love you,

441
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 5: I love you all day long. So it's it's different.

442
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 5: But you know, when you have that terminal diagnosis, heaven

443
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 5: is definitely something to look forward to and right and

444
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 5: I think that we did in a way, but it

445
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 5: really shines a light on it. It makes you put

446
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 5: there's something behind the words that you speak.

447
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 6: As a Christian.

448
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 5: I think I didn't realize how maybe not superficial, but

449
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 5: how much I didn't truly believe that heaven was something

450
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 5: to look forward to until I knew it's right on

451
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 5: the horizon for my child.

452
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's so good, jump in.

453
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

454
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: I think for me, I just think often of that

455
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 2: verse that talks about our light in momentary afflictions, and

456
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel light or momentary at times. My husband

457
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: said one time, I can't wait to throw football at

458
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 2: Tobe in heaven and see him run. And the way

459
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: that hope encourages me is I know that whatever we're

460
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: going through a daily basis, it is just temporary. It

461
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 2: is short in light of what God has for us

462
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: in eternity, and that makes it worth it.

463
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again that hope becomes so tangible for you,

464
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 3: whereas others it still may be murky or foggy, as

465
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 3: you said, Sarah, for those of us that aren't in

466
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: that position to hope for heaven. I mean, it sounds

467
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 3: odd we talk about that brutal truth where things aren't

468
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: flowing well and maybe you shake your fist at the Lord,

469
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: or really, how did you manage those moments of doubt

470
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 3: and stress and anxiety and Lord, seriously, why me kind

471
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: of thoughts. Let's kick it off with you, Sarah.

472
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 5: I likened right after diagnosis to a fog. Once that

473
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,479
Speaker 5: fog started to lift, there was a lot of anger

474
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 5: for me and a lot of doubt. I never doubted

475
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 5: that there was a God. I never doubted the magnitude

476
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 5: or the magnificence of him. I doubted the loving of him.

477
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 5: How could a loving God, you know, watch my son

478
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 5: go through this? And it was really difficult to go through.

479
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 5: And I realized I had a conversation with God in

480
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 5: the closet, and it was because the closet was the

481
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 5: safest place nobody could hear me.

482
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 6: And I was just like, how could you do this?

483
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 5: I can't watch my son die? And it was just

484
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 5: like he said. He was like, I know how it

485
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 5: feels like it's difficult, and that gets me every time.

486
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 5: But I was so angry for so long, and it

487
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 5: was almost like he said, I know your doubts. Why

488
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 5: are you trying to sugarcoat this. I still went to church,

489
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 5: we still sang, we still taught Sunday school. We were

490
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 5: the quote unquote perfect little Christians on the face of it.

491
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 5: But I did not I was so angry. I didn't

492
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: want to. I would leave during during worship songs. I

493
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 5: deprogrammed the Christian stations off my radio from my car.

494
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 5: I was just like, I can't this all. I felt

495
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 5: like such a hypocrite, and so so I decided, if

496
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 5: I truly don't believe in the kind of God that

497
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 5: I need to believe in, then I'm going to prove

498
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 5: it wrong. I'm a statistician by trade, and I kind

499
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 5: of pulled out my nerd hat and I'm like, I'm

500
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 5: diving in. And the more I dove in, the more

501
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 5: he was giving me answers right. And he wasn't angry

502
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 5: that I was angry. He was like, Okay, finally you're

503
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 5: bringing this to me. I've known you're angry all along.

504
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 5: I've known you're doubting all along. So let's get into it.

505
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 5: And so we did, and it was everything I've said

506
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 5: it before that my doubt really fortified my faith. And

507
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 5: so now even though I will have doubts, it doesn't

508
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 5: mean that I don't have them. I still will say, Okay,

509
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 5: why God, why is he doing this? My son just

510
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 5: stopped walking, and I'm like why. I've learned to still

511
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 5: It's not that I'm asking a wrong question. It's not

512
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 5: that I'm asking why is wrong. It's now I'm like, okay,

513
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 5: why why why are.

514
00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 6: You doing this?

515
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 5: And what are we supposed to gain from this? What

516
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 5: do you want us to put forward from this? It's

517
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 5: just switched a little bit. It's not like, why are

518
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 5: you doing this to us? It's okay, why are you

519
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 5: letting us?

520
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 3: Well? I really appreciate that. And you know, kind of

521
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: the imagery I'm getting is you're digging with a shovel

522
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 3: and you're finding a gold nugget. But let me press

523
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: on a little bit, just to being able to make

524
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: that transference from doubt to I guess what I would

525
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 3: describe is belief, but with you know, with regret? Is

526
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 3: that a good way to express it? And is that

527
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 3: a different stage of belief? You know? Now? It's not

528
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 3: maybe God isn't there because I'm not in a better place,

529
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 3: But he's there, and what does he want to do

530
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 3: with this? With me? Right?

531
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 8: Right?

532
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 5: I can see I think with time you can look

533
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 5: back and see how he had.

534
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 6: His hand and everything right.

535
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 5: And when you are on your knees in a closet,

536
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 5: angry and crying, and doubting you're not. It's almost like

537
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 5: you're not lifting yourself up to open up to God.

538
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 5: I was so busy trying to keep him out and

539
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 5: trying to be angry at him. I wasn't letting anything

540
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 5: else in.

541
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 3: And so that's so good. And again it's a process,

542
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: right Carrie, coming back to you where Sarah was bold

543
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 3: enough and open enough and honest enough that that tension

544
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 3: between God or you're real? And if you're real, why

545
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 3: isn't my life better?

546
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: You know? The week of my son's diagnosis, my husband

547
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: turns to me and says, well, if not us, then

548
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 2: who to raise a child like this? Like we have faith,

549
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: we have good support, we have a great church. But

550
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: somehow I thought that because I had been faithful, that

551
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: it negated any future suffering in my life.

552
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 7: And boy did it hit me hard.

553
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: And I began to doubt that God loved me. And

554
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: you know, when your prayers don't get answered, when God

555
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: clearly says no.

556
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 7: You just you wrestle.

557
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: I think about take up wrestling with the angel and

558
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: just you know, and Sarah wrestling in her closet, and

559
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that I've come to

560
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: realize is God's love is so multifaceted and how he

561
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: shows it and I just have to have that open

562
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: posture that Amy talks about and find it in different ways.

563
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: And I experienced it just differently. It just wasn't what

564
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: I thought it was going.

565
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 6: To look like.

566
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that idea that in our limitations of emotions and

567
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: our way to process things, there it does feel like

568
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: it's punishment. What have I done more to deserve this?

569
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: And I think he's saying, that's not the equation. You know,

570
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: this is going to be something you're all going to

571
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: be learning from and it'll deepen your relationship with me

572
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: if you let it. And that's really that point Amy,

573
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 3: the shaking of the fist at God. You guys are

574
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: so brave to say this, but I don't ask that

575
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: of a lot of guests. Tell me your like weakest

576
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: moment with the Lord.

577
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 4: Well, when you adopt, it's not a surprise, right, Like

578
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 4: you don't get a surprise adoption. So one of the

579
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 4: struggles I had was, Lord, we prayed so hard about

580
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 4: this each time we made this decision and felt like

581
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 4: you let us here, and now it's just so hard.

582
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 4: I remember a lady saying to me, and I tell

583
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 4: the story in the book. She comes up to me

584
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: and says, I just can't wait to see what God's

585
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: going to do in your family. And I slept on

586
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: a good Christian girl smile. He went yeah. And then

587
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,959
Speaker 4: I went home and I laid on my bed and

588
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 4: I bowled my eyes out, and I said to God,

589
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 4: what have you done? I mean, that same day my

590
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 4: daughter had been expelled again from school. I mean, I'm

591
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 4: kind of not stressed by that anymore. It's kind of

592
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 4: a norm for us. And I just thought, what have

593
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 4: you done? Amiss, Like I've done this God, and what

594
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 4: have you done? And one of the things that I

595
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 4: felt like God continues to show me is Amy, you're

596
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: so focused on the destination. If we can just get

597
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 4: ourselves a little bit together, you're forgetting your companion, which

598
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 4: is Christ, who walks through us in all of this.

599
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 4: And you know, there's a story in the Bible about

600
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 4: Abraham and Sarah and they have Hagar, the maid servant.

601
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 4: Sarah's not being very kinder, and she goes out in

602
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 4: the desert and God sends her back to the hard situation.

603
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 4: But she says, you are a gud who sees me

604
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 4: and I've come to realize that being seen makes all

605
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: the difference regardless of what we're going through.

606
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 3: Well, and in your situation adopting children, that's where you know,

607
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: if you don't get a handle on that your emotions

608
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: can you can lose it. And that's the worst possible

609
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 3: thing with the kids, right, because they're pressuring you to

610
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: test you. Do you love me? Even if I do this?

611
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: Even if I get expelled from school? We still love me?

612
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: I don't think so, because I'm unlovable. That's really what

613
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: they're saying. And so the long arc for you is

614
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 3: if you and your husband continue to demonstrate love to them,

615
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: that's probably the biggest victory you will have. Right.

616
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 4: And it looks different, and it looks different, it looks

617
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 4: completely different than another child.

618
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me let me turn a corner here, another

619
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 3: intimate question. I'm sorry, but this is what people are

620
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 3: going to be saying about in your own marriages. The

621
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: pressure that this creates, having a you know, physically handicapped

622
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: or mentally handicapped child. The divorce rates are quite high.

623
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: And so if again I can ask you to be

624
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: vulnerable there, how do you safeguard your marriage? How do

625
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: you protect your marriage. How do you I guess in

626
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: some ways prioritize appropriately when these children need so much

627
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 3: of you.

628
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: I think part of it, too, has been just allowing

629
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: the Lord to have each of us on our own journeys.

630
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: It's not expecting my husband to be on the same

631
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: grief journey that I've been on. And just recently he

632
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: was processing some grief and I was actually a little

633
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: frustrated with him, like, how do you not know this

634
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: part of Toby's story from those early days he's preparing

635
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: Bruce was preparing for a testimony for his men's group

636
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: at church. He kept calling me back into the office,

637
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: and I thought, why how do you not know this?

638
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: And it's interesting doing to you.

639
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was.

640
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: Just reacting, you know, And then I was I went

641
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 2: back in the kitchen, I was washing dishes, and I

642
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: just felt like the Lord said, he's on his own

643
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: grief journey. You have to let him process this in

644
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: his own way. And then I think it's just you

645
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: have priorities in different seasons. There were you know, the

646
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: season of the hospital stay when we were in for

647
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: sixty four days, that we were ships passing in the night.

648
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: But we also found the help that we could have.

649
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: We had people sitting with Toby' so occasionally we could

650
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: just grab like two seconds in the cuffeteria together and

651
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: just understanding what your limitations are, but also making that.

652
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 7: Still a priority.

653
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 3: You know, I would think and correct me if I'm wrong.

654
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: You know, where you and your husbands are connected, you're

655
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 3: carrying so much stress and such a load that it

656
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: becomes pretty easy to go at each other because where

657
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: else do you go.

658
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 5: Sometimes there's a I did not handle that so well,

659
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 5: So let's backtrack and go at this a different way.

660
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's some apologizing.

661
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: And I think it's it's understanding that, like, we're in

662
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 2: this together, and we're certainly better together, and we would

663
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: be a part and so it and there have been

664
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: times that we've gotten arguments over the most ridiculous things,

665
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: and I think it's asking that deeper question, Okay, why,

666
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: like what is it?

667
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 7: What's the real thing that's going on here? Yeah? Is

668
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 7: it grief? Is it frustration? Is it anger?

669
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: And then we have actually done that where we've said, okay,

670
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: let's back up five minutes and start let's start over,

671
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: let's just restart this conversation.

672
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sarah, I understand you have a observation. I guess

673
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: I would call it about not overlooking those joyful moments

674
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 3: that come. And again, you could be so buried in

675
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: life that you don't and you know all of us

676
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 3: have that potential to not see God. Moments are joyful moments.

677
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 3: But you're on the beach, I think in this story,

678
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 3: and something joyful happened, what was it? What did it

679
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 3: teach you?

680
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 5: More importantly, So, we were walking on the beach and

681
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 5: it was the first time our youngest son with disabilities

682
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 5: had seen the ocean, and I love the ocean, and

683
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 5: so his just eyes lit up and it was just

684
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 5: you could just tell something miraculous was in front of him.

685
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 5: But he was struggling to walk through the sand and

686
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 5: he was eight at the time, and my oldest son

687
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 5: was twelve. My oldest son is just very athletic, and

688
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 5: he just bounded into the ocean, and my youngest son,

689
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 5: who's eight, was almost like a one year old where

690
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 5: we had to stand and hold him because even a

691
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 5: light wave would throw him down. And eventually he got

692
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 5: bored because there's only so long you want mom to

693
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 5: hold you in a foot of water, and so he

694
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 5: wanted to go back to the room, and my oldest

695
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 5: son came back and he said, oh, watch this, And

696
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 5: so they laid in the surf and let the waves

697
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 5: take them. And it was my son had said, you

698
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 5: just let the waves take you back and forth. They'll

699
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 5: do all the work.

700
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 6: That's what he said.

701
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 5: And it was just like God was just saying, see,

702
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 5: if you just let me do the if you just

703
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 5: relax and let me do it, I'll take you to

704
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 5: and from everything.

705
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 6: And the joy of that.

706
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 5: It's one of my favorite pictures of my boys, and

707
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 5: I can just see the joy in it. And my

708
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 5: oldest son taught us such a valuable lesson that My

709
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 5: husband and I were focused on the awkward gate, the

710
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 5: struggling through the sand.

711
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 6: Is he going to be? Is he going to have

712
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 6: fun enough?

713
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 5: And we just needed to stop and take in the

714
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 5: majesty around us, the waves, the boys laughing, and I

715
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 5: could have missed that.

716
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true, and I love that. That's one

717
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 3: of the most pleasurable experiences I have is hearing my

718
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: boys laugh together. It just, you know, in another room,

719
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 3: if they're messing around or whatever they're doing and they're

720
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 3: just happy. It just warms my heart, and that's got

721
00:36:58,800 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 3: to be true certainly.

722
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, It's almost like God was just saying, just.

723
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 5: Lift your face, just lift it up for a second,

724
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 5: look around you, and I just realized I needed a

725
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 5: focus on the joy.

726
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 3: How about that thought of our father in heaven, Heaven

727
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: sent that same sense of joy that when he sees

728
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: his children laughing. I think Amy turning that corner a

729
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: little bit for you, because again, you're dealing with more

730
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: mental stresses with the kids, not so much physical inability

731
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: or disability. That's got to be somewhat of a struggle.

732
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 3: And I think even in the book you referenced how

733
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 3: attachment disorder the children can learn to play espouses off

734
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: one another. Just again for a peek into that, because

735
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 3: it's so brutally honest. Describe that experience where the kids

736
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 3: are setting you up against your husband. And it's interesting

737
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 3: in a survival mentality that they learned to do this

738
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 3: at a very young age, that they could learn this

739
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 3: at six, seven, eight years old.

740
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 4: Right, It's really common in kids with attachment disorder to

741
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 4: target the nurturing caregiver, which is typically the mom. So

742
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 4: an example in our home could be I could have

743
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 4: a raging child wanting to physically harm me, and then

744
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 4: Dad walks in the door and they turn on a dime.

745
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 4: Hi Dad, and it's like night and day. So my

746
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 4: husband has never fully seen all the behavior I've seen,

747
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 4: and I'm very grateful that he believes me. I've had

748
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 4: mom say that they had to put a camera up

749
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 4: and then their husband would watch the camera and go

750
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: on to get the full story, get.

751
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 7: The full story, probably unbelievable, unbelievable.

752
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 4: I think the struggle Dave and I have always been

753
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 4: a great team, and we have six and we have

754
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 4: to be a team. But one of my personal struggles

755
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 4: was I'm kind of the punching bag in some ways

756
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 4: and he's not. And I'm kind of jealous sometimes that

757
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 4: he doesn't right and he carries things than I do.

758
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 4: You know, he hears all that I have to tell

759
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: him about what we're walking through. So I had to

760
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 4: kind of come to terms with, Okay, we're on a

761
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 4: team together, and yeah, I'm getting the brunt of some

762
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 4: of this abuse that he's still believing me at least.

763
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 4: You know, some parents, some people don't have that. I

764
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 4: think that's where you get a lot of marital discord

765
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 4: when the husband's and divorced. The husband's like, I don't

766
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 4: know what you're talking about. This kid's a the light

767
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 4: right now.

768
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 3: You're the problem.

769
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're the problem. And honestly, if I can say,

770
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 4: even from marriage, that's spoken over us moms with kids

771
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 4: like this a lot from church and friends and mother

772
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 4: in law's like you're the problem. This kid is And

773
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 4: that's really hard. That's really hard, and it makes you

774
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 4: feel shame, shameful and isolated. So I think the thing

775
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 4: that helped me a lot was knowing Dave's on my

776
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 4: team and being honest but being okay that he didn't

777
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 4: have to experience all of that. And you know, and

778
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 4: we've been to therapy and we do things together and

779
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 4: we have a very strict role that when we go

780
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 4: out together, he takes the phone call from the babysitter

781
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 4: of all the bad things that happen, and it's like,

782
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 4: is it what happens at home? Don't tell any.

783
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 6: Because it is.

784
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 4: I am immediately stressed again. So we kind of have

785
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 4: some things that we've that he's walls be built around

786
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 4: me that he takes the brunt of some of that

787
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 4: because he can hear all the bad things and go, Okay,

788
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 4: I'm like up all night worrying about all the bad things.

789
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 3: Well, and I so appreciate it. Amy. I have friends

790
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 3: that have adopted from countries where attachment disorder is typical

791
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 3: because these kids never get touched. They're in cribs until

792
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: they're three four years old or older and they literally

793
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 3: don't get touched. And you know, it's such a sad

794
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: human experience and it impacts them dramatically, and boy, just

795
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: tears at my heart. And then many of those friends

796
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: have had to institutionalize those kids. That's a very common way. So, Man,

797
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: my admiration for you and your husband sky I to

798
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 3: stick with it and be there with them. Let's end here,

799
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: what can the church generally and Christians generally, what can

800
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: they do that's helpful? And then maybe mention things that

801
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 3: aren't so helpful, like little phrases we like to say,

802
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: and you know, I think you have some examples of that,

803
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: but let's just you know, again, let's just open that

804
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: up and you guys have at it. Both the positive

805
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 3: things that we could do churches. What could churches do

806
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 3: to help accommodate special needs children in all facets mental, physical?

807
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 3: And then what are those things that we say that

808
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 3: could really just take the legs out from under you.

809
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing is listening to the families.

810
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: And also I think it's so important to educate your

811
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: entire staff, not just the buddies who are helping the kids.

812
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 7: Because you do have families that.

813
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: Come in and maybe you know their disabilities are hidden

814
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: or you know, I've come across parents that they've said, yes,

815
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 2: my child has you know, level and autism, but I

816
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: just didn't tell the workers at church because I just

817
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: wanted to see how they would handle it. And I

818
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: think it's important for there to be education across the

819
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: board on all levels because you know, I have a

820
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: nineteen year old son who's teaching first grade boys and

821
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: he needs to know how to you know, he obviously

822
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: has some level of understanding with his brother, but he

823
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: needs to know those things. And I think the one

824
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: thing that's not helpful is God won't give you more

825
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 2: than you can handle that versus taken out of context,

826
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: that you.

827
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 3: Get that God won't give you more than you can

828
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: I can imagine that will come handle it for me

829
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 3: then right, yeah, yes, yeah, I mean it's sent with

830
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 3: the right intention, But man, does it throw salt in

831
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 3: the wound?

832
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: Right, It's like, I don't. I couldn't handle this without

833
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: the Lord. So yeah.

834
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 5: We have an elder at our church when we first

835
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 5: received the diagnosis. My husband's a deacon in our church,

836
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 5: and they asked us to come in and tell us

837
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 5: about nobody knew the disease. It's rare, and they said,

838
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 5: what can we pray over? And the first thing out

839
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 5: of my husband's mouth was our marriage because over eighty

840
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 5: five percent of marriage is in a divorce with duche

841
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 5: not and that's what we read at the time. How

842
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 5: true it was, whatever, but it scared us enough that

843
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 5: we're like, just pray over our marriage. And I have

844
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 5: one elder that will come up to me and he

845
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 5: puts his hand on my shoulder and he said.

846
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 6: How are you doing. I'm like, oh, I'm good, fine,

847
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 6: you know, it's just fine. And he's like, how are

848
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 6: you doing?

849
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: Right? He wants the truth and.

850
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 5: He wants the truth and that's just it, and he's

851
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 5: present and he doesn't want the fine. He wants to

852
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 5: know and he will say, how can I pray for

853
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 5: you this week? And it is a week to week thing. Yeah,

854
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 5: And I think that that is I know someone is

855
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 5: there and I can say, Okay, well we have this

856
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 5: doctor's appointment coming up or whatever that might be for

857
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 5: the week, and I know he's praying over it. And

858
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 5: that's just knowing that there's people in our corner. And

859
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 5: it's not superficial, not that everybody's not that people are

860
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,720
Speaker 5: being so official, but he wants, he wants the nitty gritty.

861
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that makes you feel seen. It does again, Yeah,

862
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 3: that he cares. Yeah.

863
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 6: Like Amy said, it's just being seen.

864
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 3: Right.

865
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 4: We could have a small group of people that we

866
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 4: could go, look, can you pick up the prescription? Can

867
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 4: you come sit at the park with my child? So

868
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 4: I can drive in my car and cry for an

869
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 4: hour because I really don't want to do this anymore.

870
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 4: Just a small group of people that hear our stories

871
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 4: and look past the behavior. And I think that is

872
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 4: really important. A lot of the moms that have the

873
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 4: kids kind of kids I do, they've.

874
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 6: Walked out of church.

875
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think of that. That's really saying maybe a

876
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 3: portion of that group walk away from the Lord.

877
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 4: Right.

878
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 5: Our church does a buddy program and so we started

879
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 5: to disability ministry and we have people we assign two

880
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 5: volunteers to each child. So these children know they're two

881
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 5: volunteers and they switch and we were like, okay.

882
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 6: So this is the this is what makes them awesome.

883
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 5: And here with my son, like when he's grinding his

884
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 5: teeth or he starts to click, you might want to

885
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 5: dig in or take him to the sensory room or

886
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 5: something like that. We tell them what to look for,

887
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 5: and when we pick them up, don't immediately say, well,

888
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 5: they hit so and so.

889
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 6: With the cranky or they weren't listening.

890
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 3: You know, it's give me the checklist.

891
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just saying I enjoyed your child.

892
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, the power of that.

893
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 6: Yeah.

894
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 5: And then my husband, I have forty five minutes to

895
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 5: actually focus on the word and to worship.

896
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 3: Well, you guys are saying so many strong things and

897
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 3: so many right things, and you know, in many ways

898
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 3: with our foster outreach, you know, one of the things

899
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 3: that we encourage Christian couples to do is look for

900
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 3: opportunities to do respite. And it's a big word. We

901
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: didn't understand what respite meant before we got into foster care.

902
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 3: It means like giving relief to a foster family so

903
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: they can have some margin. You know, it might be

904
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 3: shopping for them, doing their laundry, just something. And I

905
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: think the data as we've looked at it, if there's

906
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 3: five respite care families that come around and adoptive or

907
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 3: a foster family, they typically will be six usful in

908
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 3: that endeavor if they have that much help. But think

909
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 3: of that, that's a lot saying we need five families

910
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 3: to help us raise this child or these children. Right Well, listen,

911
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 3: you guys have done a stellar job, and our hearts

912
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 3: do go out to you, not in a way to

913
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: show you disrespectful sympathy, but man, God chose you for

914
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 3: a special assignment. Gives me tears thinking about it. Thank

915
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 3: you and your husbands for doing it and for doing

916
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 3: it well, and for teaching the sighted of us to

917
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 3: do it better and to know God deeper. So thank

918
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 3: you for being.

919
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 6: Here, thanks for having for having us.

920
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 3: Let me turn to the listeners and the viewers. Man,

921
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 3: what a great resource to the other side of special

922
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 3: navigating the messy, emotional, joy filled life of a special

923
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 3: needs mom. And you've heard their hearts and you know

924
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: what they're saying. So if this is something that would

925
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 3: help you get a hold of us if you can

926
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 3: make a gift of any amount, we'll send it to

927
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: you as our way saying thank you. If you can't

928
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 3: afford to do that, we'll send it to you anyway,

929
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 3: and trust others we'll cover the cost of that. Might

930
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: be a friend, there's somebody in your church. Maybe a

931
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 3: church should hold a few of these copies so they

932
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 3: can give them to families who come in that have

933
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 3: special needs kids. That would be a blessing. And there's

934
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 3: many ways you can use this, So get in touch

935
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 3: with us. As John mentioned, you know we've been doing

936
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 3: this for over forty almost forty five years now, right,

937
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: you're not going to surprise us. If you need help

938
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 3: to talk with a counselor et cetera. Just get a

939
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 3: hold of us.

940
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 8: Our number is eight hundred, the letter A and the

941
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 8: word family eight hundred two three two six four five

942
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 8: nine wor stoped by the program description for all the

943
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 8: details and on behalf of Jim Daily and the entire team.

944
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 8: Thanks for joining us today for focus on the Family

945
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 8: with Jim Daily. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next

946
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 8: time as we once again help you and your family

947
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 8: thrive in Christ.

948
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 4: You will be like.

949
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 3: God, God and through it all, God's promise remain true.

950
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: Follow me Apro and I make you great.

951
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 6: This is the Chosen People. Listen to the Chosen People

952
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 6: at the Chosen.

953
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 5: People dot com.

954
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: That's the Chosen people dot com.