WEBVTT - Why Morehouse Is Going Online for the Fall

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Jason Education, we talked so much

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<v Speaker 1>about it, rightfully, talks so much about it. And one

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<v Speaker 1>of the hardest working reporters always but certainly right now

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<v Speaker 1>is Janet Lauren trying to keep in touch and trying

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<v Speaker 1>to keep track of everything that's going on in higher education.

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<v Speaker 1>This week alone, there have been numerous stories. Janet joins

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<v Speaker 1>us on the phone. So, Janet, before we get to

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<v Speaker 1>the President of Warhouse, who we're going to bring on

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<v Speaker 1>in just a second, give us thirty seconds on state

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<v Speaker 1>of higher education right now. Well, a lot of schools

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<v Speaker 1>have sent kids home because of higher test rates of coronavirus.

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<v Speaker 1>We saw on earlier this week, the University of North

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<v Speaker 1>Carolina said students should go home because a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>kids were testing positive. Yesterday, UM Notre Dame had eighties

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<v Speaker 1>students test positive in one day and they decided to

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<v Speaker 1>pause clastic, pause online I'm sorry, pause in person activity

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<v Speaker 1>for two weeks and see what happens. In Michigan State

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday said UM that they would they would not be

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<v Speaker 1>having on campus program right. Yeah, that's our backdrop let's

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<v Speaker 1>bring in David Thomas. He's President Morehouse College. He joins

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<v Speaker 1>us on the phone from Atlanta on this Wednesday long,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, as he just heard with Janet Lauren, our

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<v Speaker 1>higher education finance reporter. UM. President Thomas, so nice to

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<v Speaker 1>have you here with us. UM. You know, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot on the plate of our countries, colleges and universities,

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<v Speaker 1>the virus, reopening, virtual learning, the cost of education, inequalities. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>What's top of mind for you right now? Well, top

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<v Speaker 1>of top of minds for me is UM one making

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<v Speaker 1>sure that the quality of what we offer online this

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<v Speaker 1>semester far exceeds what we were able to do last semester. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>and that we're also able to create community in this

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<v Speaker 1>virtual environment, because that's one of the things that draw

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<v Speaker 1>students to more House College UM. And so we've required

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<v Speaker 1>all of our faculties who are going to teach UH

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<v Speaker 1>this semester to be certified in online education because one

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<v Speaker 1>of the things we learned is that there's a difference

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<v Speaker 1>between online education and remote instruction. Remote instruction is where

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<v Speaker 1>you essentially do what you do in an in person classroom,

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<v Speaker 1>just being taked or delivering it on zoom or some

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<v Speaker 1>other video platform, whereas online education there's actually a pedagogy

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<v Speaker 1>to it that makes it much more dynamics. So we've

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<v Speaker 1>invested in that. And the other thing that you know

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<v Speaker 1>keeps me awake at night is UM. Uh you know

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not we'll be able to bring our students

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<v Speaker 1>back for the spring semester, uh, given what we're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>happen with the virus UH, in particular in the state

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<v Speaker 1>of Georgia, where our positivity rates testing rates are in

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<v Speaker 1>double digits right now. Well, you made the decision quite

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<v Speaker 1>early on among colleges that you could not do in

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<v Speaker 1>person because there was too much risk for everybody, not

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<v Speaker 1>only the students, but also the other people working on campus.

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<v Speaker 1>Now other schools are seeing their just decisions may not

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<v Speaker 1>have been such a great idea to invite students onto

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<v Speaker 1>campus uh, and they're having to pivot at a very

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<v Speaker 1>late date when kids are already there. Can you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about what went into your decision UM to be very early? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was it was very UM, very straightforward. We very

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<v Speaker 1>early on UM decided that the number one priority for

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<v Speaker 1>us would be keeping our students and our staff and faculty,

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<v Speaker 1>uh say, from a health and wellness perspective, and then

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<v Speaker 1>our second priority was ensuring the quality of what we

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<v Speaker 1>could provide educationally. And the last, the third priority was

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what's what what's going to be the financial

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<v Speaker 1>impact because we have to stay viable financially and being

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<v Speaker 1>clear about that uh made it pretty uh straightforward for

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<v Speaker 1>us to move, you know, through our decision tree and

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<v Speaker 1>to wind up being among the first schools to say

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<v Speaker 1>that we would be fully remote, especially in the context

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<v Speaker 1>of Georgia, where we also faced, uh, you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>very confusing political environment where literally at one point we

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<v Speaker 1>had the governor suing the mayor over whether mass could

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<v Speaker 1>be mandated in the city of Atlanta, um, because the

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<v Speaker 1>governor was not going to allow that to happen in

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<v Speaker 1>the state of Georgia, and we were going to mandate

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<v Speaker 1>mask on our campus. Uh. And it's hard to enforce

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<v Speaker 1>a rule, you know, when students might raise the question, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's not legal in the state. If the man

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<v Speaker 1>can do it, how can the college do it? Um.

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<v Speaker 1>So so that just led us, you know, on a

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<v Speaker 1>decision tree, and when we saw the rate of positive

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<v Speaker 1>tests going up, UM, that led us to reverse our

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<v Speaker 1>earlier decision, which was that we would be in a

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<v Speaker 1>low density hybrid format UM and UH. But it was

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in many ways, it was pretty straightforward because

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<v Speaker 1>we just very clear about, you know, what our priorities

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<v Speaker 1>were in our principles UM. And so President Thomas, no

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<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, you know, you may also know

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<v Speaker 1>that we were the first school, uh, first scholarship granting

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<v Speaker 1>school to cancel fall uh football in the country. UH.

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<v Speaker 1>And we did that almost three months ago. Uh and

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<v Speaker 1>using the same set of principles. And so President Thomas,

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<v Speaker 1>I have to ask you pivoting a little bit away

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<v Speaker 1>from your day to day job, you know, figuring out

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<v Speaker 1>the mechanics of this university. You have studied organizational behavior,

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<v Speaker 1>you have taught UM this over the years. You were

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<v Speaker 1>the dean of a fantastic business school, my alma mater,

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<v Speaker 1>Georgetown University, before you came to this job. I do

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<v Speaker 1>wonder in your job, especially in Atlanta, especially at this

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly press he just historically black college, what is your

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<v Speaker 1>take on what we have seen around racial justice, racial unrest,

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<v Speaker 1>but also more importantly the move towards really starting to

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<v Speaker 1>talk in a serious way about diversity in corporate America.

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<v Speaker 1>What have you seen what have you observed of late yees.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's UM, it's you know, it's it's it's I

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<v Speaker 1>don't quite know what the word is. But what we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen is the confluence of two pandemics. The first is

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<v Speaker 1>the COVID pandemic and the second is the pandemic of

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<v Speaker 1>institutionalized racism UM in our institutions and organizations. UH. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if we look at COVID, it's revealed just

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<v Speaker 1>stark inequities in health outcomes along lines of race. And

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<v Speaker 1>then if we look at the pandemic of institutionalized racism,

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<v Speaker 1>what it brings our attention to is the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>there are still policies and practices that give license to

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<v Speaker 1>uh the conscious and unconscious biases UM that devalue um

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<v Speaker 1>black black lives and brown lives uh in our country. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's very interesting to me that these two viruses

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<v Speaker 1>had been come together and so powerfully paint that picture.

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<v Speaker 1>The you know, the other side of it is that,

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<v Speaker 1>in ways that I'm not heard UM in my almost

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<v Speaker 1>forty years as an academic studying at the intersection of

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<v Speaker 1>organizational change, leadership, and race, so many leaders now willing

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<v Speaker 1>to use the words institutional racism, systemic racism. Um that

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, not just about changing people's attitudes so

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<v Speaker 1>they say they're not racist, but really looking at, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the underpinnings of our social systems, whether it's for profit

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<v Speaker 1>corporations or educational institutions or the police force. And that

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<v Speaker 1>really gives me some hope that, um, you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>will see that this isn't just a moment, it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>a movement to really move us towards, uh, the ideals

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<v Speaker 1>that underpinned the American idea. So in that sense, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>hopeful more House has been particularly impacted because we are

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<v Speaker 1>the only historically black college uh committed to the education

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<v Speaker 1>of men, and black men have very much been part of,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the picture of what institutionalized racism looks like

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<v Speaker 1>because of George Floyd. Uh. That's that's not to deny

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<v Speaker 1>that there's also black and brown women who have been affected,

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<v Speaker 1>like Brianna Taylor, but we've really been at the full gram. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, here in Atlanta, I had a student who

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<v Speaker 1>was tased pulled from his car, had done nothing wrong

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<v Speaker 1>other than talked to someone from his car that the

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<v Speaker 1>police didn't want him to talk to. And UM, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we had to spend time helping to get him released,

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<v Speaker 1>his his record expunged. UM. And I've had other students arrested,

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<v Speaker 1>so I've had to deal with things on that end

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<v Speaker 1>of the continuum. And on the other end, We've had

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<v Speaker 1>a number of people reach out who want to partner

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<v Speaker 1>with Morehouse College because they really want to take this

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<v Speaker 1>moment seriously, UH and make a difference. UM. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>been in the realm of philanthropy UM, as well as

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<v Speaker 1>creating opportunities for our students and partnerships UH to advance

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<v Speaker 1>other aspects of the college. So it's you know, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>it's really captured a lot about the complexity of of

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<v Speaker 1>race and social justice UH in our society, both the

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<v Speaker 1>best of it and the worst of it. Before we go,

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<v Speaker 1>Jan and I know you want to ask one more question. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>if we could just talk a little bit about football again.

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<v Speaker 1>You were very early on in saying this was not

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<v Speaker 1>a good thing for your community, for the health of

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<v Speaker 1>your athletes, and can you talk about it again. That decision,

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<v Speaker 1>it is manifested in divisions, in in athletic divisions. Some

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<v Speaker 1>have said we can't do this. The sec in in

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<v Speaker 1>the South where you are is continuing and again talk

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<v Speaker 1>what went into that decision and the concern about the

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<v Speaker 1>health of your athletes. Yeah, um, you know, when I

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<v Speaker 1>looked at it, what I one of my principles was

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<v Speaker 1>I would not place any uh segment of my student

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<v Speaker 1>population at more risk than any other segment. We looked

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<v Speaker 1>at football and we just couldn't justify the idea. And

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<v Speaker 1>at that time, we thought we might be able to

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<v Speaker 1>come back in a low density residential format, but it

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<v Speaker 1>just became clear that our football players would be at

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<v Speaker 1>greater risk uh than our other students. And we coupled

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<v Speaker 1>that with the fact that the black community has been

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<v Speaker 1>disproportionately impacted. So the likelihood that you know, we would

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<v Speaker 1>have positive cases on our campus was fairly high. Our

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<v Speaker 1>students are student athletes would travel to other schools. UM

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<v Speaker 1>we had designed a very rigorous protocol to keep our

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<v Speaker 1>students safe, but we couldn't guarantee that all the schools

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<v Speaker 1>that they would visit to play at would have similarly

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<v Speaker 1>rigorous protocols because it's very expensive, you know, to test

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<v Speaker 1>every player every week or twice a week. And UH,

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<v Speaker 1>we also started with the assumption that um our athletes

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<v Speaker 1>are students. First, we admit them to more House College

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<v Speaker 1>with the expectation that they're going to graduate from more

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<v Speaker 1>House College in four years, not that they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>play football for three years and go pro. And UM,

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<v Speaker 1>we just ask ourselves, you know what, what do we

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<v Speaker 1>owe our students? And we say we owe them safety

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<v Speaker 1>and we owe them in education. So the other thing

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<v Speaker 1>that we did, and if you read our announcements, UH,

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<v Speaker 1>in the first paragraph, we make very clear that we

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<v Speaker 1>will guarantee every student athlete their scholarship because we brought

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<v Speaker 1>you here to graduate from Morehouse. UM. And the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that you're a great football player, UH is a dimension

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<v Speaker 1>of merit, but it's not what determined whether you got

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<v Speaker 1>into more House College. And so UH, I'll be quite

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<v Speaker 1>honest with you. I made the announcement without I made

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<v Speaker 1>the decision without talking to another president in Division one

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<v Speaker 1>or Division two UM, and made the decision announced it.

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<v Speaker 1>We put out a public announcement, woke up the next

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<v Speaker 1>day to a plethora of UM you know, calls and

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<v Speaker 1>UM emails. And it was only in the first interview

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<v Speaker 1>I did that I realized we were the first school

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<v Speaker 1>to actually cancel football and the scholarship in school, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was actually shocked. Yeah, well you've got You've had

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of good company since then. Listen, we could

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<v Speaker 1>talk to you for the rest of the day, well

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<v Speaker 1>into the coming back. You're gonna have to come back

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<v Speaker 1>and spend more time with this. Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 1>David Thomas, President of Moore House College, such a awtful

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<v Speaker 1>guy and experience teaching at Harvard and as I said,

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<v Speaker 1>at the dean as the dean of the business school

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<v Speaker 1>at Georgetown mcdonndah school at a time of unbelievable growth

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<v Speaker 1>and where he is now a really important role. And

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<v Speaker 1>uh we we remember also Robert Smith of course, uh

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<v Speaker 1>that huge move uh basically taking on all of the

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<v Speaker 1>student debt there at Morehouse. That's stemmed from a conversation

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<v Speaker 1>over dinner with David Thomas when that all happened. Our

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<v Speaker 1>thanks as well to Janet Lauren, our Education and Higher

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<v Speaker 1>Education and Finance reporter,