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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the

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Speaker 1: global economy to you. We have two takes on aging

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Speaker 1: this week from opposite sides of the world. First, from Shanghai,

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Speaker 1: we hear how the Chinese Communist Party is turning to

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Speaker 1: an old idea time banking, to help them deal with

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Speaker 1: the looming challenge of a fast aging population. Then from

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Speaker 1: the US, a piece on student debt, which could surprise

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Speaker 1: you sky. Higher university fees and the heavy burden of

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Speaker 1: student debt have been big issues on the campaign trail

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Speaker 1: in recent U S elections. But if I asked you

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Speaker 1: to conjure up a mental image of the people saddled

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Speaker 1: with all this debt, it probably wouldn't be a seventy

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Speaker 1: or eighty something retiree living in Florida. It turns out

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Speaker 1: the burden of student debt is growing fastest among the

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Speaker 1: over sixties. In a few minutes, we'll hear from some

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Speaker 1: of the people struggling with this and learn how government

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Speaker 1: programs seem to be making it worse. We'll also here

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Speaker 1: why menu prices are quietly soaring but many of your

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Speaker 1: favorite restaurants. But first let's head to Shanghai for that

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Speaker 1: report from Bloomberg Economy reporter Charlie Juma. What you heard

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Speaker 1: is parking music for some elderly folks in Shanghai. It's

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Speaker 1: five pm on a Monday. About a dozen elderly men

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Speaker 1: and women were already gathering at the leafy downtown street

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Speaker 1: side park in Shanghai to get ready for one of

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Speaker 1: their routines, dancing in the squares or guangchang wu in Chinese.

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Speaker 1: It's a familiar side in cities across this vast nation,

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Speaker 1: which is rapidly aging. The latest census data show the

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Speaker 1: country has two sixty million residents aged sixty and above,

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Speaker 1: more than eight percent of its population. By twenty fifty,

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Speaker 1: it will be one in three. To diffuse this demographic

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Speaker 1: time bomb, the Chinese Communist Party is turning into a

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Speaker 1: foreign invention. Time banking, the brain child of Japanese lady

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Speaker 1: Taruku Missushima in the nineties seventies. Time banking involves people

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Speaker 1: providing social services to others in exchange for time credit

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Speaker 1: that the participant can use to access similar services later

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Speaker 1: in life. On a recent Wednesday morning, I went to

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Speaker 1: see a time bank for myself at an elderly care

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Speaker 1: home in Shanghai's Changning district. A handful of Time Bank volunteers,

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Speaker 1: mostly retirees in the sixties or seventies, are busy working,

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Speaker 1: each wearing badges bearing the logos of the Time Bank

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Speaker 1: the workforce. One was teaching an elderly neighbor how to

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Speaker 1: use a stationary bike in a small gym another word

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Speaker 1: advertising bathroom and kitchen accessories designed for seniors. For the work,

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Speaker 1: the volunteers will get paid not in money, but in time.

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Speaker 1: They can use their accrue hours to access services from

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Speaker 1: other members of the bank. One I met was Fundundi.

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Speaker 1: The seventy six year old former travel services manager, is

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Speaker 1: one of many so called empty nest seniors. Her husband

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Speaker 1: passed away several years ago, and her only child is

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Speaker 1: married and lives in another part of the city. She

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Speaker 1: started working for the Channing Time Bank as a part

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Speaker 1: time receptionist at the senior care house two years ago.

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Speaker 1: More recently, she ventured into something slightly more challenging, teaching

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Speaker 1: her fellow seniors how to download pictures on Wi Chat,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese super app used for everything from instant messaging

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Speaker 1: to payment. Asked why she came here to do this,

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Speaker 1: she said she wanted to save time dollars for her future.

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Speaker 1: What's probably more important, she said, the job is the

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Speaker 1: past time for her either. It feels kind of lonely

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Speaker 1: at home. It's staying by myself for too long. I'm

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Speaker 1: afraid i will get in mania. I'm not really happy

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Speaker 1: to hand around with other seniors. Fun has accumulated eight

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Speaker 1: time dollars so far, a sum that would have been

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Speaker 1: much higher if not for the pandemic last year. She

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Speaker 1: told me she has no plan to spend it now,

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Speaker 1: and she's keen to save more for future. China launch

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Speaker 1: a pilot time banking program in some cities a few

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Speaker 1: years ago. The trial has since spread to about a

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Speaker 1: dozen metropolisis from Beijing to Guangzhou and the financial hub

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Speaker 1: of Shanghai. Shanghai is planning to extend the trial to

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Speaker 1: the entire city from just a few districts. The reason

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Speaker 1: to broadened experiment is straightforward, a rapidly aging population, rising

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Speaker 1: cost of senior care, and shortage of care facilities. Nin Teger,

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Speaker 1: head of China's National Bureau of Statistics, expressed concerns about

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Speaker 1: China's demographic train last month when he announced China's latest

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Speaker 1: census result at the press briefing don't go and do.

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Speaker 1: The aging of the population is further deepening. China is

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Speaker 1: facing the pressure of long term sustainable development of its population.

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Speaker 1: The data showed the number of Chinese people aged sixty

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Speaker 1: and above has reason by forty since two thousand and ten,

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Speaker 1: while China's births have fallen to their lowest in almost

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Speaker 1: six decades, putting the country's population on course to peak

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Speaker 1: within the next five years. The demographic clifvage, of course,

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Speaker 1: is a problem of government's ownmaking. After decades of imposing

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Speaker 1: a heavy handed one China policy, China has announced its

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Speaker 1: planning to raise the retire manage allow all couples to

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Speaker 1: have not two, but three children. But most urgent is

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Speaker 1: strengthening the care for elderly citizens to be sure. Challenges

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Speaker 1: facing time banking and China bound from a lack of

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Speaker 1: public understanding of the concept to maintaining the quality of

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Speaker 1: services and securely storing time dollars. Yet some industry experts

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Speaker 1: are optimistic, citing the government's commitment and the widespread use

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Speaker 1: of mobile phones. Among the optimists, it's Siging who runs

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Speaker 1: the time back in the central Chinese city of Wuhan

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Speaker 1: in the comers in China has its own characteristics. It

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Speaker 1: usually has grand plans for a lot of things with

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Speaker 1: top down designs. Under such a leadership, I believe different

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Speaker 1: places will come up with different ways to promote time banking.

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Speaker 1: The reason for Shanghai to push forward time banking is compelling.

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Speaker 1: The city has almost six million residents who are sixt

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Speaker 1: and above, or nearly a quarter of its total population,

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Speaker 1: far above China's national average and about the same as

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Speaker 1: some developed countries. Set Up in two thousand nine, the

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Speaker 1: Chinese Time Bank has signed up more than two thousand members.

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Speaker 1: They have deposited over two thousand furs into the bank,

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Speaker 1: translating into some fifty five R and B or eighty

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Speaker 1: dollars in the value of senior care services based on

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Speaker 1: Shanghai's minimum wage. Only a fraction of the time deposits

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Speaker 1: has been used, as most members are fifty to seventy

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Speaker 1: euro retirees who have pension income but worry about rising

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Speaker 1: costs of senior care. In a recent interview, Good Zoo,

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Speaker 1: an official of the Shanghai Municipal Civil Affairs Bureau, told

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Speaker 1: us that unlike overseas time banks whose members are from

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Speaker 1: various age groups. Shanghai is mainly pushing for the model

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Speaker 1: of so called young old serving the elder in light

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Speaker 1: of the city's demographic structure. Due to the age of

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Speaker 1: its members, the scope of the services the Chinese time

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Speaker 1: bank provide is limited to helping with essentials such as

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Speaker 1: paying utility bills and doing the grocery shopping. Time banking

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Speaker 1: is a concept from abroad. During the process of localization.

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Speaker 1: We have to twicket according to the needs of elderly

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Speaker 1: care for a big city like Shanghai. Wild time banking

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Speaker 1: never really took off with a strong arm of the

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Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party behind it. China just maybe the country

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Speaker 1: where it does this is Charlie Drew for Bloomberg News

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Speaker 1: in Shanghai. M h, well, you heard there about the

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Speaker 1: Chinese government encouraging able to say for their retirement with

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Speaker 1: their time as well as their money. But in the US,

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Speaker 1: older Americans are being actively encouraged to run up debts

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Speaker 1: which could make their old age considerably worse. In the

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Speaker 1: last three years, student debt student debt among Americans over

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Speaker 1: sixty two rose by nearly eight In a minute, I'll

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Speaker 1: talk to Bloomberg Senior editor Alex Tanzi about what's driving

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Speaker 1: this problem. But first I wanted to play you this

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Speaker 1: introduction by Bloomberg Quicktake producer Madison Paglia. I should say

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Speaker 1: she's a video producer. Quick take producers videos. And if

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Speaker 1: you want to put faces to the voices you're about

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Speaker 1: to hear, you can go online and search for older

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Speaker 1: Americans frontline student debt crisis, or just embrace the magic

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Speaker 1: of radio and produce the pictures for yourself. What turned

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Speaker 1: out to be about thirty tho dollars student loan is

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Speaker 1: now seventy never I'll die before I'll never be able

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Speaker 1: to pay that off. It's kind of like a death

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Speaker 1: sentence from me. I'm in a life sentence, I should

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Speaker 1: say to pay those student debts. Student loan debt in

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Speaker 1: the US is now at one point seven trillion, and

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Speaker 1: it's growing fastest among older Americans. There are now about

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Speaker 1: eight point seven million Americans over the age of fifty

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Speaker 1: who are still paying off college loans and who have

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Speaker 1: seen their debts increase by about half since And this

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Speaker 1: is my son. He graduated in two thousand and eight

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Speaker 1: from Bridgewater College with a degree in biology. I didn't

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Speaker 1: want him to be stuck with having the debt that

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Speaker 1: a lot of kids have when they get out of college.

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Speaker 1: So I assumed that loan seventy seven year old Frank

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Speaker 1: Sizer Jr. Is a retired prison warden living in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: By the time he is ninety six years old, he

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Speaker 1: will finally be finished paying off his student loans. The

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Speaker 1: parent plus loan that I took out was through the

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Speaker 1: Department of Education, and of course they then transferred everything

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Speaker 1: over the navyant. But I think I started in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and four. I'm still paying it and according to Navy,

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Speaker 1: and I'll be done in two thousand and forty. My

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Speaker 1: former job was ahead of the Atlanta City Jail, and

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Speaker 1: before that, I was the warden of three different federal prisons,

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Speaker 1: and of course I ran the prison system in Maryland.

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Speaker 1: My main source of income, of course, is my retirement

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Speaker 1: income and of course social Security. I sort of assumed that,

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Speaker 1: like most loans, you pay it off in a reasonable

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Speaker 1: amount of time, and I expected that I would have

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Speaker 1: it paid off before I retired. But for a period

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Speaker 1: of time while he was in school, I was just

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Speaker 1: paying interest rate on the loan. Right now, a balance

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Speaker 1: of about fifty two dollars. God knows what the original

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Speaker 1: amount was interest rate compounding, and it just continued to grow.

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Speaker 1: It came as quite a shock to me to find

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Speaker 1: out that I'm going to be label with this, probably

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Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. As you get older

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Speaker 1: and you don't have the income that you did when

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Speaker 1: you were working, it has a big effect to take

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Speaker 1: about five dred a month from y'all retirement income to

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Speaker 1: pay a student loan. These are the type of buses

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Speaker 1: that we drove. Alma Pett used to be a school

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Speaker 1: bus driver in Stockton, California, but back to back traffic

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Speaker 1: accidents led to debilitating medical issues and ultimately put her

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Speaker 1: out of a job. My main objective after that was

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Speaker 1: to go back to school. I was in the middle

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Speaker 1: of a divorce and was a single parent. I took

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Speaker 1: out student loans too, not only to cover my books

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Speaker 1: and the classes, but to help assist in my daily bills.

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Speaker 1: Almost medical issues have caused her to be in and

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Speaker 1: out of work over the years, and she is currently

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Speaker 1: collecting state disability. At this age, I can't be the

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Speaker 1: same worker that I was before that. I just don't

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Speaker 1: see a way out. I've been trying to pay it.

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Speaker 1: I've had medical problems, lots of jobs, debts in the

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Speaker 1: family where I had to stop work, my husband got

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Speaker 1: laid off, and in between times I couldn't pay the payments,

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Speaker 1: so I had to ask for forbearance. The interests accrued.

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Speaker 1: Like big time borrowers who defer all loans can face

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Speaker 1: severe consequences such as capitalized interest, which can cause the

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Speaker 1: original loan balance to skyrocket. Alma didn't complete her b A,

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Speaker 1: but took enough units to earn a certificate. Today, Almah's

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Speaker 1: debt has more than doubled. She and her husband have

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Speaker 1: filed for bankruptcy. It's quite um disheartening, troubling, UH to

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Speaker 1: be in the situation like this. I just don't understand

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Speaker 1: why the government allows this to happen. For a thirty

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Speaker 1: tho dollar loan to become a seventy tho dollar loan.

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Speaker 1: I don't come from family with a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted a further my life in to provide

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Speaker 1: from my family a better future. So I felt like

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Speaker 1: the need to have to do it. At the time,

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't realize it was gonna get to

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Speaker 1: this monster that it's at now. Both Frank and Alma

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Speaker 1: are among the more than forty million federal student loan

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Speaker 1: holders were scheduled to begin making monthly payments again on

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Speaker 1: October one, once COVID nineteen debt relief measures expire. Right now,

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Speaker 1: obviously with COVID nineteen, it's not accruing anything, and I

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Speaker 1: don't have to pay right now, but it's soon going

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Speaker 1: to start again, and with me not working, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how that's gonna be feasible. And unfortunately this is

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Speaker 1: not covered by bankruptcy. I would like to thank that

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Speaker 1: loan forgiveness what happened. I'm very pessimistic that that will happen.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you can't do a way of student loans,

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Speaker 1: do away with the entrance on those student loans, because

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Speaker 1: that's what really runs that cost uff and burden people.

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Speaker 1: My hopes for this issue for myself is for me

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Speaker 1: to be debt free from it completely. I know President

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Speaker 1: Biden talked about releasing us from all debt, so if

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Speaker 1: he's not gonna give us the blessing of canceling this

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Speaker 1: student loan debt, I would hope and pray that at

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Speaker 1: least he changes the laws so that it could be

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Speaker 1: included into a bankruptcy. If education is important as everyone

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Speaker 1: make it out to be, in which I agree with,

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Speaker 1: that should be a better way. The wealthy not our issue. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the average person don't have that luxury. Quite honestly,

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Speaker 1: I'd like for my son to go on and get

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Speaker 1: his master's, but on that's going to have to be

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Speaker 1: on his dime. I'm joined now by one of the

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Speaker 1: people who helped uncover this story for bloom Bag, senior

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Speaker 1: editor for the Real Economy team and one of our

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Speaker 1: best data journalists, Alex Tanzi. Alex, thanks for being on

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Speaker 1: Stephanomics U. I should start by asking you how you

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Speaker 1: came across this story. It wasn't something that I had

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Speaker 1: heard about, this idea of of really much older people

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Speaker 1: laden with student debt. So for a number of years now,

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Speaker 1: student that's becoming a more prominent problem in the US.

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Speaker 1: It's up to one point seven trillion, so we've really

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Speaker 1: in about that several times. And in the past years

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Speaker 1: before there was forbearents for the pandemic delinquencies on student

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Speaker 1: that was the highest of any consumer debt. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are going into a lot of debt.

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Speaker 1: The government wasn't getting any of this money back. So

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Speaker 1: it's been an issue we've been kind of focused on,

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Speaker 1: and lately we've taken a deeper look at how different

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Speaker 1: parts of the population have different types of debt and

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Speaker 1: the loan program for parents wanting to help their kids

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Speaker 1: with the student debt um that seems to be causing

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Speaker 1: particular issues. So what are the problems there? Why are

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Speaker 1: people running into difficulties. One of the issue there is

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Speaker 1: that type of debt. That portion of student loans is

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Speaker 1: rising much more rapidly than any other portion. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of parents are trying to do the best thing

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Speaker 1: for their kid and incurring a lot of debt to

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Speaker 1: send them to college. And the debt is not cheap.

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Speaker 1: It comes with a four percent more than a four

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Speaker 1: percent origination fee, So right off the top, you're paying

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Speaker 1: four percent more than everyone else. And the interest rates

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Speaker 1: are over seven that's extraordinary. There's a huge gap between

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Speaker 1: the student loan interest rate and say the tenure. The

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Speaker 1: US tenure it wu the last dozen years, it's average

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Speaker 1: more than four d basis points. Well, that's four percentage

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Speaker 1: points more expensive. And what is I mean? I think

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Speaker 1: we obviously have seen in as Over the last few

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Speaker 1: years in the US, it's been a very prominent feature

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Speaker 1: student debt, not so much the parent debt, but the

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Speaker 1: certainly student debt. And there's lots of proposals for helping

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Speaker 1: people with it, but what's the politics of of helping

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Speaker 1: older people with this kind of debt. So in the

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Speaker 1: last election, for the first time it became a campaign issue.

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Speaker 1: UM it rose to that level of prominence overall student

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Speaker 1: that not necessarily the parent portion, but it became, you know,

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Speaker 1: campaign issues, So a lot of different politicians were running

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Speaker 1: on UM forgiving everything. Biden's kind of been opposed to that.

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Speaker 1: So far, he hasn't really staked his ground, but he

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Speaker 1: said he was willing to do a smaller portion of forgiveness.

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Speaker 1: But for parents in particular. You have a lot of

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Speaker 1: people now at the age when they should be saving

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Speaker 1: for retirement, at the age when they are retired, and

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Speaker 1: there's still paying student lens. So you have some people

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Speaker 1: collect in Social Security retirement income and paying student loans,

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Speaker 1: which UM is not a good scenario, and it's not

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Speaker 1: a it's not a straight Democrat Republican split, is it.

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Speaker 1: People feel differently on different sides of the are now

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Speaker 1: you know, everything is political these days in Washington. But

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Speaker 1: under Trump, the fellow appointed to be in charge of

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Speaker 1: student loans, he resigned and he said the whole system

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Speaker 1: can't be fixed, and he recommended a universal, um, a

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Speaker 1: universal for parents. Um, you know, have the government pay

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Speaker 1: off all these debts. He simply said, the system is

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Speaker 1: broken and there's no good solution to fix it, and

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Speaker 1: the country as a whole is better off just starting

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Speaker 1: from scratch. And it was interesting because I think that

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Speaker 1: guy he actually and he blamed the schools for the

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Speaker 1: universities for putting students in this in this problem. There's

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Speaker 1: a massive misalignment and incentives, so parents and students can

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Speaker 1: take out this money very easily. There's no background check

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Speaker 1: of any type. Um, it's much more difficult to get

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Speaker 1: a five thousand dollar small business loan than say a

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Speaker 1: fifty dollar loan to go to college. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: schools have no incentive, they have no skin in the game,

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Speaker 1: so they have no incentive to keep costs down, and

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Speaker 1: you know, they're happy to have more and more kids

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Speaker 1: paying a lot of fees. The government, you know, gives

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Speaker 1: this money out pretty easily, probably a lot easier than

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Speaker 1: they should, Um, there's no type of distinction on the

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Speaker 1: type of college you're going to, the type of major

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Speaker 1: you're studying. Everyone's paying the same rate, and they do

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Speaker 1: that for you know, particular reasons. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: if there was a different incentive, and you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to a very good school, your grades are

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Speaker 1: it and you're studying, say a field that's in high demand,

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Speaker 1: you know, and on the in the private market, you

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Speaker 1: would probably pay less and interest Um, you know, with

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Speaker 1: the government running things, everyone is paying the same and

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Speaker 1: it's creating a misalignment of incentives. And I guess one,

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Speaker 1: I mean, one reason why it's probably easy to get

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Speaker 1: is it's much much harder to write off. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you that the normal bankruptcy rules don't let you

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Speaker 1: write it off the way you would be able to

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Speaker 1: write off other kinds of consumer debt or indeed, mortgage

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Speaker 1: debt that you could just walk away from. In the US,

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Speaker 1: it's extremely difficult to get it written off. Lately, there

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Speaker 1: have been some, you know, very few cases where people

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Speaker 1: have been able to get the debt reduced, but for

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Speaker 1: the most part, you know, you're stuck with it, and

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Speaker 1: you know, people are stuck with it so last year

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Speaker 1: that the Partmit of Education was able to claw back

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Speaker 1: five billion dollars from people's social security incomes or tax

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Speaker 1: refunds or other parts of um, you know, government income

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Speaker 1: when someone wasn't paying their student learned that that's an

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Speaker 1: incredible figure. I mean, I guess that the human, the

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Speaker 1: human aspect of this is and I remember learning this

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Speaker 1: many years ago, that some of the different repayment rates

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Speaker 1: relate to how people feel about the debt and if

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Speaker 1: you people will try very hard to hold onto their

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Speaker 1: homes and to carry on paying their mortgages. If you

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Speaker 1: took it, if you did a degree and actually it

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Speaker 1: didn't help you much and you didn't get a great

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Speaker 1: job out of it, you don't have the same kind

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Speaker 1: of association. You don't feel the same kind of determination

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Speaker 1: of pride in in paying it back if it hasn't

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Speaker 1: worked out so well. So it's I think there's an

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Speaker 1: element of of psychology around this. But in the UK

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Speaker 1: you can write it's written off after thirty years student debt.

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Speaker 1: I wonder whether do you think that might make sense

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Speaker 1: in the US too. I think it would definitely makes sense,

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Speaker 1: especially for older people or people that become disabled. One

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Speaker 1: issue is people's incomes and their lives are not always

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Speaker 1: a straight line. People get divorced, people have health problems,

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Speaker 1: people have a death in the family, so their incomes fluctuate.

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Speaker 1: They lose their jobs, so it's difficult to always pay

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Speaker 1: the same amount every month with student debt, and for

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Speaker 1: some people they are more than two hundred thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: so it can be quite a significant amount every month

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Speaker 1: that has to go out. There's also the St. Louis

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Speaker 1: FED has done some studies on the outcomes for college graduates,

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Speaker 1: and for many that don't necessarily go to the best

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Speaker 1: school and don't necessarily have the best grades, there's not

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Speaker 1: much benefit to go to college. It's not much better

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Speaker 1: than a high school degree. So there is um. There is,

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Speaker 1: Like you're saying, there's a lot of problems with people

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Speaker 1: feeling good about getting this that if they can't find

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Speaker 1: a job that helps them pay for it, there's a

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Speaker 1: massive investment. Is not very high. Turn well, Alex Tansy,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for talking us through it. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. In case you hadn't noticed, inflation

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Speaker 1: is back. The headline rate of inflation in the US

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Speaker 1: hit five percent last month. That's the highest since two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight. We've talked before on this podcast about

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Speaker 1: rising commodity prices and the record cost of shipping. Now

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Speaker 1: it's diapers on nappiece and restaurant meals. Diaper banks have

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Speaker 1: seen a jump in demand in many US states as

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Speaker 1: low income families deal with the consequences of price hikes

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Speaker 1: by the two companies which dominate the U S diaper market,

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Speaker 1: PNG and Kimberly Clark. And now you can finally go

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Speaker 1: to your local restaurant, you're probably finding that prices have

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Speaker 1: gone up there as well. US Economy reporter Olivia Rockman

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Speaker 1: has more on that last story. Olivia, tell me why

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Speaker 1: restaurant chains are feeling the strain and needing to hike prices.

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Speaker 1: And one side, they're getting a lot of pressure from commodities,

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Speaker 1: so that could be chicken, beef, even shipping costs for

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Speaker 1: their products. Chicken, for example, is at a decades high

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Speaker 1: in terms of price increases. And on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: they're being hit with with wage increases that they're having

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Speaker 1: to take in order to attract workers. Because in the

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Speaker 1: US we've had a lot of generous unemployment benefits, which

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Speaker 1: is not motivating many people to return to the workforce,

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Speaker 1: and so it's really on every end of their cost

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Speaker 1: cycle that they're facing these pressures and then in turn

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Speaker 1: having to raise prices. Yeah, and I think it's always

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Speaker 1: worth remembering when people talk about the fear of inflation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's lots of things to worry about inflation,

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Speaker 1: and often it does affect poor people the most because

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Speaker 1: they haven't necessarily got wage increases rising in line with inflation.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you know, some of this

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Speaker 1: inflation is about increasing people's incomes, people getting paid more

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Speaker 1: um to work in restaurants and other places. And what

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Speaker 1: companies are we seeing increased prices and what what kind

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Speaker 1: of peace we've seen. The first big company that we

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Speaker 1: saw do this was Chippotle, Mexican restaurant chain here in

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Speaker 1: the US, and they had taken a wage increase a

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Speaker 1: couple of months ago and then shortly after announced that

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Speaker 1: they were raising their prices about four percent. We saw

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Speaker 1: the same with Cracker Barrel and other restaurant chain. McDonald's

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Speaker 1: has talked about needing to take price increases soon because

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Speaker 1: of wage increases, and we're hearing it from small businesses too.

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Speaker 1: And they do come up with a few sneaky ways

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Speaker 1: of hiding this from us. You don't you don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: know that the price has gone up. Yes, so companies

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Speaker 1: in their earnings cause will say they're looking at their

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Speaker 1: pricing strategy, or they're going to take pricing, or they're

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Speaker 1: looking at their price calculation, and they won't overtly say

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Speaker 1: that they're increasing prices. And so it is sort of

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Speaker 1: a game that they're playing between their investors and their customers.

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Speaker 1: But if you're a customer, you're gonna notice. I mean

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Speaker 1: they also trying to shrink the pulsian sizes or do

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Speaker 1: something I know that often happens with consumer products. You

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Speaker 1: find that your favorite chocolate bar is actually more than

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Speaker 1: it was a few years ago. Yeah, we heard from

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Speaker 1: Wingstop at Chicken Company that they're starting to use every

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Speaker 1: part of the chicken to make their products rather than

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Speaker 1: just the legs are just the breast that they used

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Speaker 1: to use. So there are some creative cost manipulations going

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Speaker 1: on as well. I'm surprised that they wanted to publicize that.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make me want to jump in, but maybe

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Speaker 1: that's it's good. It's good environmental grounds. You should use

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Speaker 1: every last drop. Thanks very much, Olivia. That's it for

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Speaker 1: Stephonomics this week. I'll be back next week with a

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Speaker 1: special episode on the future of the global economy, featuring

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Speaker 1: a discussion with former US Treasury Secretary Larry Summers and

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Speaker 1: big name investor Ray Dalio. So tune in for that

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Speaker 1: and follow as Economics on Twitter to hear more economic

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Speaker 1: news and analysis from Bloomberg. This episode was produced by

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00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrick Soon. The report from China was written and

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00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: reported by Charlie jou, Lyn Ju and Daniel Away, with

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00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: special thanks to tong Jiang Dong, Doug Huang, Madison Baglia,

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00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: Alex Tanzi, and Olivia Rockman. Mike Sasso is the executive

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Speaker 1: producer of Stephanomics and the head of Bloomberg Podcast is

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Speaker 1: Francesco Lea.