1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: tech stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to tex Stuff. My name is Chris Poette. I'm 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: an editor at how stuff works dot com and sittre 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: across from me, as he is typically on these occasions, 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: his senior writer, Jonathan Strickland. I kicked the map into 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: the creek. That was a short quote, and if you 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: know the genesis of that quote, please let us know. 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: And if you don't, I'm so scared. Okay, all right, 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: I give it away. Now. We're going to talk today 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: about geo tagging and its relationship to privacy and how 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: how geo tagging can be a really cool thing and 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: can be a really neat way to interact with people 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: online as well as to keep track of things that 16 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: you've on, and also how sometimes it can be a 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: bad thing, like you can give tools to people you 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: may not want to associate with ways to harass you 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: and make your life miserable. Yeah, I'd like to uh 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: to make it clear to we we bring these kinds 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: of things up a lot, and we get criticized on 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: occasion from people who seem to feel that we're unequivocally 23 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: saying that these computerized tools are dangerous and scary and 24 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: therefore you should turn off all technology. And that's that's 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: not what we're saying. Um, like just about every technology 26 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: we've ever mentioned on the podcast, not all of them, 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: but the vast majority of them. Um, you can use 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: tools for all kinds of purposes. I mean, you could 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: hit somebody in the head with a hammer, but it's 30 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: really great for pounding in nails. Uh man, wait what 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: I have been using the hammer in a very limited way. 32 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: I shouldn't know that what's gonna happen? So bang, Thanks Maxwell, 33 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: thank you. Um yeah, doesn't that beat all? Um, No, 34 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: we're off to our rollicking stuff. No. Geo tagging is 35 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: one of those things that that can be really really 36 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: useful for all kinds of informational purposes. It can be 37 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: used for fun. Um. But if you give like you know, 38 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: put your phone number up on on a billboard, and 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: some people you like, we'll call, and other people you 40 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: don't will, so so just be careful how you use that. 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: And that's that's the essential message. But let's get into 42 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: geo tagging and what it is and maybe you know 43 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: and and great much greater detail will get into the 44 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: privacy issue here. Sure. Yeah, so geo tagging is exactly 45 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: what it sounds like. It is tagging some sort of 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: information with geographical a layer of geographical information. Yeah, we're 47 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about metadata here, and metadata is information about 48 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: some information. Well yeah, information about information. That's usually how 49 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: it's described. But um, you know you have a a 50 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 1: book in front of you. Well, it's got a title. Um, 51 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: you can talk about the publisher, You could talk about 52 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: what kind of paper it was printed on. You can 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: get into all kinds of information about how many pages 54 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: it has, how many words per page on average. But 55 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: when we talk about geo tagging, you could geo tag 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 1: a book. Heyes, you know it came from London. Look 57 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: it says that right there on the page. It's on 58 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: my shelf exactly. But yeah. You take a photo on 59 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: your smartphone and it may include information from the GPS 60 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: device that you have also in your smartphone. So you 61 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: can say, go to the Grand Canyon and take photos 62 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: of your your summer vacation, and you could say this 63 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: is specifically where this photo was shot. So if somebody, 64 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: one of your friends. You post this on your photo 65 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: sharing account on the web. When of your friends wants 66 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: to go, oh, man, I'm going into the Grand Canyon 67 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: this summer too. Where where did you take that picture? 68 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: I want to see that for myself, we could say, well, 69 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: these are the coordinates, So there you go, geo tagging. Yeah, 70 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of different potential all applications for this. 71 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: There's the the fun vacation sort of version that you 72 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: were talking about. For example, let's say that you go 73 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: on a road trip and along the road trip, you 74 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: take all these different photos and then you want to 75 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: organize the photos into a online photo album, maybe even 76 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: something that's more like an interactive scrapbook, and you want 77 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: to go and create that. Well, there are programs that 78 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: will allow you to do that, and they what they 79 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: do is they read the meta data connected to those images. 80 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: So let's say that you're using a smartphone or you're 81 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: using a digital camera that has a GPS receiver built 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: into it, because there are some out there, not all 83 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: of them, but there are some, and you take photos. 84 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: What's cool is that most cameras, now almost all of them, 85 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: will time stamp a photo yes, so it'll give you 86 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: an exact date and time that that photo was taken. 87 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: So as long as the cameras you know, clock is 88 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: correct and calendar is correct, you're gonna have that information 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: included on the image. Then you have the additional information 90 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: of the GPS UH coordinates, so you've got longitude and 91 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: latitude that gets thrown in there. With the right program, 92 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: you could dump a ton of digital not really a 93 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: ton because they don't wear anything, but you can throw 94 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: up a lot of digital photos into that and have 95 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: it arranged those photos by date and time and by location, 96 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: so you could create an interactive map where someone could 97 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: then go and look at how you went from on 98 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: your vacation, like from following the photos, they can retrace 99 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: your steps, see the sites you saw, and sort of 100 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: live your vacation just by going through these links. And 101 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, that's just a basic application of geotagging. There 102 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: are a lot of other ones. I mean, there's there 103 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: are tons of reasons to use it for marketing. I 104 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: used an example recently when I was talking about this 105 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: on on a local news program. For example, let's see 106 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: you have a food truck and let's say there's maybe 107 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: four or five locations that you take this food truck 108 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: to reag liarly throughout the week, and as a way 109 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: of showing people where this is, you may take photos 110 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: of your food truck so one they know what it 111 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: looks like, but you include geotagging information and a and 112 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: a a map application so it shows exactly where that 113 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: truck is located when it's you know, when it's operating hours, 114 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: have it at that particular spot exactly, so then you've 115 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: got a map that pops up. There are applications that 116 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: incorporate this in such a seamless way that you really 117 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: don't have to do anything other than make sure that 118 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: GPS setting is turned on. Once you've done that, it 119 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: does all the work for you. For example, twit pick 120 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: does this if I take a photo with my my 121 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: Android phone and I have the GPS feature turned on 122 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: when I'm taking photos so it shares location data, and 123 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: I enable the location data on twit pick. So there 124 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: are two spots where I have to agree to do this. Um, 125 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: if I do both of those things and I take 126 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: a photo using my camera and then upload it to 127 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: twit pick, not only will it include that geographic location, 128 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: it will actually pull up a Google Maps image and 129 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: show where that photo was taken. And if you want, 130 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: you can switch map from map view mode to satellite 131 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: view mode and see a satellite picture of where you know, 132 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: where I was standing when I took that photo. We 133 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: tried this on camera and it worked so well. We 134 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: actually I took a photo from uh we have a 135 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: balcony here at how stuff works in a nice deck really, um, 136 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: that I stood out on and I took photos of 137 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: and using the satellite you could see the exact location 138 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: I stood where I took those photos, and it was, 139 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, a satellite photo of it, not just a 140 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: map location. So that's kind of cool. You can use 141 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: that for all sorts of reasons. Um. But here's the 142 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: thing about data, about data people, if people know how 143 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: to access it, they can exploit it. Um. Yeah, it's 144 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: it's a bad idea. Uh uh well okay, before ideeah, 145 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: well yeah, I was gonna say this in a specific instance, 146 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: but let me back up for just one second. You 147 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: can there, Uh. Geo tagging is something that you know. 148 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: Of course I knew about it. It's it's pretty common today, 149 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: especially for people with with smartphones. Um. But when I 150 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: when I looked into it looking for a little history, 151 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: as we were wont to do on this show. UM. 152 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: I think the first mentions I saw when they were 153 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: still people were still talking about it as though it 154 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: were a new phenomenon. We're around two thousand seven, two eight, 155 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: and that's when uh, consumer smartphones started becoming more popular. 156 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: The iPhone had come out in two thousand seven, and 157 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: that really launched the smartphone craze, at least in the 158 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, for consumers, of course, you know, UM 159 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: and UH, of course there were the uh the memory 160 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: cards used in digital cameras like the I Fi that well, 161 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: even if you don't have a GPS enabled camera will 162 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: store GPS information in the an images metadata UM, which 163 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: is pretty cool because you don't have to have a 164 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: GPS a camera would built in GPS to use that UM. 165 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: And I've read pretty good reviews of that. UM. So 166 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: this is something coming on and now that we can 167 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: do this UM, all sorts of other opportunities have sprung up. 168 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: People use services like UM, like go Wala or four square. 169 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: They want to tag where they are and not necessarily images. 170 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: They'll say, you know, hey, I'm at the pub, you know, 171 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: on the corner and come hang out if you're in 172 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: the neighborhood exactly. UM. Twitter and Twitter is the same way, 173 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: and Facebook as well. They have there's Facebook places and 174 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: there's also that you can turn location data on on 175 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: Twitter if you want to. Yes, that's right, And that's 176 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: exactly where I was going to go with this, UM, 177 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: because you know you can you can say this. You 178 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: can tell people on Twitter and Facebook and UM through 179 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: images you shoot with your phone or your digital camera 180 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: where you are, UM, and that can be great if 181 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: you want to share details about your vacation. Maybe you're 182 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: on a business trip and you're somebody who likes to 183 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: use social media to um point out how you're different 184 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: from everybody else in your colleagues, and that's how you 185 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: network with your colleagues and UM, it shows that you're 186 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: really valuable in your field. Well, maybe you're on a 187 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: business trip and you're taking photos and you're tagging everything 188 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: and you're showing people your exact location, and then people 189 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: realize you're not home. And somebody who happens to know 190 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: who you are, particularly who you are, and maybe they 191 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: know where you live, they go way out. They're not home. 192 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: So if I went to their house, maybe no one 193 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: is there, um, and that can be dangerous. And it's 194 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: it's possible if you don't use your real name on 195 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: on the social network and you're just taking photos, um, 196 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: and you could you could take photos of your summer 197 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: vacation and post them when you get home, and so 198 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: you have your GEO tagged photos and you haven't revealed 199 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: to everybody that you are out last week. It's like, well, 200 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: I'm home now, so I went on a vacation to 201 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: so and so. Here are the photos. Yea, And that's 202 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: that's great. But if you're if you're not careful and 203 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: you post the wrong information, the right the exact right 204 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: information at the wrong time, if you could clue people 205 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: in that you're not home, or if you have people 206 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: that might want to do you harm. I hope that's 207 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: not the case, but yeah, if you have somebody that 208 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: you've upset and they are following you and know exactly 209 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: where you are, then they can come find you. That 210 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: could be a little nerve wracking. We can dive into 211 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: this even a little deeper because there are there are 212 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: very easy ways where people can find out where you 213 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: live that some some of which would be under your 214 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: control and some of which may not. For example, let's 215 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: say that you've taken a photo of either your home 216 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: or your inside your home. Maybe you're throwing a party 217 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: and you're taking pictures of the party, and let's say 218 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: you've got the location data turned on there. Well, that 219 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: metadata is going to be connected to those those images, 220 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: and if you upload those images to certain uh photo albums, 221 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: online photo albums, especially if you have it arranged that 222 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: it's public uh, there's the possibility someone could then pull 223 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: that image, look at the metadata and say, ah, this 224 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: is where this person's houses. I did not know that before. 225 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: But because they've posted these pictures of an event that 226 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: they weren't thinking about, like oh, this shows where my 227 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: house is, they're thinking this was Bob's party as surprise party. 228 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: It was great's a lot of fun. We took all 229 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: these photos. That could be that could lead to be 230 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: a problem. It could also be a problem if you 231 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: if someone who's visiting you takes photos and then they 232 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: upload it into some public online UH photo album and 233 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: their metadata is turned on. In that case, it's not 234 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: even under your control. You're not the one who took 235 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: the photos. But if they tag you in those photos, 236 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: or they mentioned that they're at your house and that 237 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: data is in that if that metadata connected to the photo, 238 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: someone could learn where you live. And this might not 239 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: be a big deal for some of you may not 240 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: think that that's a that scary a notion and and 241 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: for most of it's probably not um but if you 242 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: happen to do things like use Twitter or Facebook to 243 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: post when you go on vacation, like you're saying, I'm 244 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: leaving tonight, I'm so excited, Well, then that you've just 245 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: given the clue that all right, I know where this 246 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: person lives, I know they're not going to be home, 247 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: that this is the perfect opportunity to try and rob them. Now. Uh, 248 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, if you're careful about it and you don't 249 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: share your your address, then there's less danger of that happening. 250 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: If it does happen, you can pretty much narrow it 251 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: down to the people who know you. And then you're thinking, well, 252 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a reckoning because I know it's one 253 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: of you jerks, and I'm gonna narrow it down. But 254 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: but yeah, like I said, with these these systems, it 255 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: can it can really come back and haunt you. It's 256 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: kind of interesting too, also to see which services preserve 257 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: the meta data and which ones strip it out. So, 258 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: for example, twit pick, the meta data is preserved if 259 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: you turn your location on in whatever device you're using 260 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: to capture the photo, and you turn it on on 261 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: twit pick. Now, granted, like I said, you have to 262 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: choose to share it. Um so that's an opt in, 263 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: which is good. We we like opt in, we don't 264 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: like opt out. You know, where you make the conscious 265 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: choice to share the information as a default. Yes, if 266 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: you if that's the if it's default, to opt into it, 267 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: that's good. Um So if you so, let's say that 268 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: you have all that you share it, that meta data 269 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: will be preserved. What's interesting to me is one major 270 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: place where people store photos that strips the meta data out, 271 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: and I would have never guessed it is it Facebook. 272 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: It is if you upload an image that has meta 273 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: data in it that that connects it to a location, 274 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: and you upload it to your Facebook profile, and then 275 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: someone were to go into that photo album, download the 276 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: image and open it up in some sort of editor 277 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: software to kind of see what the metadata is, they 278 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: are not going to find location data in there. Interested 279 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: strips it out. So Facebook actually does not support geo 280 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: tagging right now as of the recording of this podcast. 281 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: Now could that change? It could and maybe that they 282 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: incorporate pictures in their places. Uh. Feature in places, of course, 283 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: is where you virtually check into locations capital places, yes, 284 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: and and other people can check you into there as well. 285 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: You have to improve it, but other people, like let's 286 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: say that you're at a restaurant and your friends are there, 287 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: and your friends are on you know, going through the 288 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: Facebook places to check in, they can check you in 289 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: as well, but you have to approve it before it 290 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: will pop up everywhere. Um, there may come a time 291 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: where photographs are also supported by this feature. Right now 292 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: they are not again as of the recording of this podcast. 293 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: So that was interesting to me that Facebook does not 294 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: actually support geo tagging. Now you could still tell people 295 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: where that was like if you wanted to. I mean, 296 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: there's nothing stopping you from putting it in the caption. 297 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: And there are also services out there that allow you 298 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: to upload photos and then you put them on a map. 299 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: Like you you you physically in input the address into 300 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: the service, so it's not pulling from the meta data 301 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: of the picture. It's requiring user input to geographically placed photos. 302 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: That's a little different. It still can come back and 303 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: haunt you. Yeah. Yeah, Now, I mean another example of 304 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: something there. There have been a number of articles, uh 305 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: in the media recently about geotagging and the possibility that 306 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: it could lead to trouble if you're not careful, and 307 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: one of those was, you know, if you have a 308 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: lot of maybe you're taking you finally splurged and got 309 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: that home entertainment system that you've always been wanting, and 310 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: then you take photos of it and you know, share 311 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: that in public with people, and you didn't turn off 312 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: the geo tagging on your phone, and some random person 313 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: happens on it and goes, well, it is a really 314 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: nice new entertainment system. I wonder if they're home during 315 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: the week during normal business hours where most people are 316 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: out working, and I have their exact location, so yeah, 317 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: that that could be that could be hazardous. So yeah, 318 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: I mean, there are so many things that you could 319 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: use it for, uh, for good purposes, um, you know research, um, 320 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 1: you know, personal research, geneal genealogical research. Um. You can 321 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: use it for geocashing purposes too. We had that that 322 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: great podcast a long time ago. Now it seems like, um, 323 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean they're there are games that you 324 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: can play with geographical information. Um, you just have to 325 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: be careful what you what you're sharing, and don't forget 326 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: that there may be some kinds of information you do 327 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: want to tag in some that you don't. Yeah, if 328 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: you're making a travel guide for someone and you're giving 329 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: them suggestions of where to go within a certain city, 330 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: geo tagging is a great tool. If you're using a 331 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: website and interactive website to show people, Look, you know, 332 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: just down the street from this one museum, is this 333 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: really cool restaurant that, uh that I recommend because of 334 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. You know that sort of stuff. It 335 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: comes in really handy. But yeah, there are other besides 336 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: the whole burglary uh possibility. There's also the question of 337 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: things like attracting the wrong sort of attention, like stalkers. 338 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: That's a very real concern, um, especially if you're using 339 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: something like Twitter and you don't have a protected uh feed, 340 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: Like if you if you have a public feed, that 341 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: means every single thing you publish is going to be 342 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: published on the public feed and theoretically anyone can see it. 343 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: So let's say that you are, I don't know, a 344 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: dashingly handsome co host of a technology podcast, and you 345 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: take pictures of all your favorite places that you like 346 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: to go. And then some uh incredibly attractive young lady 347 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: who has desires upon this bald, handsome co host of 348 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: a technology podcast where to look at those photos and 349 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: that meta data and say, hey, these are his favorite spots. 350 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: All I have to do is go to one of these, 351 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: and sooner or later he's going to show up, and 352 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: then I can tell him how much I love him. 353 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: Why has that not happened yet? I guess I haven't 354 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: turned that GPS information on. That's the problem. I haven't, 355 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: dang it. You know, there's always something, but no, no, seriously, though, 356 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: to be to be, I'm making light of it, but 357 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: this is really a very serious situation, and that you know, 358 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: you you need to be aware that the information you're 359 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: sharing could, if you're not careful with it, be used 360 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: by other people to to harass you, and uh, you know, 361 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: and that we don't want to see that happen. Now Again, 362 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: we are not telling you don't use geotagging, just be 363 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: aware of when you're using it, the situations you're using 364 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: it in and the purpose you're using it. Um, Because 365 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: again it could be a really fun way to share 366 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: information about yourself, but you may not want to share everything. Yeah, yeah, 367 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: I think that's a that's a good point. Um. It's 368 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: just it's just one of those things where we're not 369 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: saying no, don't ever do it. Just um, you know, 370 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: just think about it. And yeah, the odds someone will 371 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: someone when someone will invariably right in and say, you know, 372 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: you said geotagging was bad and I shouldn't do it, well, yeah, 373 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: the odds are pretty slim that some of this is 374 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: going to happen. Um, But you know, just think about it. 375 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: It's just like, just like if you live in uh, 376 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, a pretty heavily um popular popularized area. Right. 377 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,719 Speaker 1: Let's say like you live in a in a big city, right, 378 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: you don't normally leave your car unlocked, or you'll leave 379 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: your house or apartment unlocked, because even though the likelihood 380 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: that you'll be targeted or for a home invasion or 381 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: a car burglary is low, you don't go tempting fate. 382 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: Same sort of thing, and again, you know their ties 383 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: when you using geo tagging is perfectly fine. You just 384 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: you may not want to use it all the time. 385 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: Like you're visiting your buddy and you're taking pictures, you 386 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: might want to You might want to at least ask 387 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: your friend, like should I turn GEO tagging off? Because 388 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: otherwise people are gonna know exactly where this place is. Well, yeah, 389 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: and that's funny because that you would say that, because 390 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: I was thinking specifically of the rash of um break 391 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 1: ins that has been happening in businesses here in Atlanta 392 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: over the past few months. A lot of there have 393 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: been a lot of break ins and smallish businesses like 394 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: strip malls, uh, from people who are breaking in to 395 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: steal flat screen TVs off the walls, places that are 396 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: that are offering TV for their customers in waiting rooms 397 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: and things like that. Um. And you know, if you're 398 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: taking a picture of some place while you're out, UM 399 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: what GEO tagging information? It's not necessarily your information, or 400 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: you might be the business owner and people are you know, Hey, 401 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: this is the cool place where I like to go 402 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: on on Thursdays. You know everybody who's here we have 403 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: trivia night or whatever. And uh, if you happen to 404 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: tag that information and uh, it gets posted to the net. 405 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: It could reveal information about your establishment with the kind 406 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: of equipment that you have available, and it could inadvertently 407 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: make it known to uh, to thieves. So that's you know, 408 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: of course, some businesses go ahead and advertise that you 409 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: want to yeah, and I'm not saying that, Yeah, I'm sorry, 410 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to uh, I don't mean to intimate 411 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: that that's the reason that that happened, but it could. 412 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: It could give people clues. And again, if you're the 413 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: business owner, then you're gonna say, hey, look, I've got 414 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: this great entertainment. You're gonna advertise that. You're not necessarily 415 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: going to stop somebody from taking a photo of uh, 416 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: their friends having a good time at this place, because 417 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: they're gonna say, well, yeah, I want that will build bell, 418 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: build word of mouth. You know, it's it's it's a 419 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: tricky situation. I mean, it's one of those things where, uh, 420 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, you weren't you wouldn't necessarily think of it. 421 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: Even a few years ago. I wanted to kind of 422 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: segue this into a discussion about privacy in the web 423 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: in general, in the sense that I recently read an 424 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: essay and then responded to it. The essay was Your 425 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: Life torn? Open Sharing is a Trap written by Andrew Keene. 426 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: It was published on Wired dot co dot UK on 427 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: February three eleven, and in it, Keen bemoans the fact 428 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: that we are reaching a point where everyone is sharing 429 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: lots of information about themselves, not just geotagging, but that 430 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: is an element of it, but everything like you know, 431 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: thoughts and uh and relationships, and that privacy is becoming 432 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: decreasingly important. So Keen's point was that this is going 433 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: to mean that humanity itself will change, because privacy is 434 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: part of being human, and if we are adicate privacy, 435 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: then we're eradicating part of what it is to be human. 436 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: H and I took Umbridge to a couple of his points, 437 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: one of which was that I don't feel that that 438 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: social networking necessarily means that you lose all your privacy 439 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: because in most of these situations you have, First of all, 440 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: you have the choice of whether or not to use 441 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: the social networking at all. Yes, and that is an 442 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: important thing to note. It's not compulsory. Yeah, there's no 443 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: there's no law that says you have to be on Twitter, Facebook, 444 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: etcetera right. And second of all, you most of these 445 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: services have levels of protection that you can choose to 446 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: either initiate or turn off. For example, with the twit 447 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: pick thing that I mentioned, you know, again you have 448 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: to have the GPS location stuff turned on your smartphone 449 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: or camera and you have to have it turned on 450 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: on twit pick for that to take effect. If it's 451 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: not turned on on twit pick, that metadata will not 452 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: be included. And so you don't you know, you have 453 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: to choose to to share this information. So it's not 454 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: like it's something where Big Brother has appeared and we're 455 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: all four. He was making a lot of nineteen eight 456 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: four references. And here's the thing is that in nineteen four, 457 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: if you don't know that story into it's a government 458 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: mandated society where people are under observation all the time 459 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: by a very oppressive, very invasive government. There's no choice there. 460 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: But with with social networking there is. It's all choice. 461 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: You can choose. You know, how much you share and 462 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: how little you share. And uh, I also just don't 463 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: think that it's going to lead to the downfall of mankind. 464 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: So I had some some things to say about that, 465 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: and if you want to read more, I wrote a 466 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: blog post about and if you want to read keynes essay, 467 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: I do recommend reading it. He makes some good points 468 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: things that I do not disagree with. I just felt 469 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: that some of his central premises were a little faulty. Um. 470 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: And the other element is the idea between using the 471 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: internet to share this information versus using your memory to 472 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: remember stuff. Because we've talked about that in the past. 473 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: We talked about Nicholas cars famous article is Google making 474 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: as stupid? We did a whole episode about that. Um. 475 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 1: The idea being that we are using computers and the 476 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: cloud to store information that normally we would just store 477 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: in our own memories. Uh. Nicolas cars point was that 478 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: he he felt he was losing This was very anecdotal, 479 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: but he felt he was losing the ability to retain 480 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: information that he couldn't even maintain focus on anything that 481 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: took longer than a few minutes because the Internet had 482 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: conditioned him, right, the web had conditioned him to accept 483 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: information in in website like a web page sized amount 484 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: and then that's it. You can't go more than that. 485 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: So he couldn't read a book anymore. Yeah, I think 486 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: that's funny because that's that's one of the points that 487 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: David Allen makes in his Getting Things Done is life 488 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: can be very stressful if you have a lot of 489 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: things to manage. So writing things down or recording them 490 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: in some fashion it doesn't necessarily had to be written, 491 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: UM is as a good way to take the stress 492 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: off because once you have it written down in a 493 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: place where you're going to go back and look you, 494 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: you're less likely to forget to do that thing, to 495 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: accomplish that thing. And that's just one of the points 496 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: he made. It's one of many points he makes in 497 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: the book. UM The important thing again to notice he 498 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: suggests writing it down like on a paper planner is 499 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: sort of where he started. He said, well, you know, 500 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: if you have an electronic system that you prefer to use, 501 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: but it's not the technology specific. It's not because we 502 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: have Twitter and geotagging that we're giving away our privacy. 503 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: It's what we're what we're doing with the technology as 504 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: individuals and making our individual choices on what to do 505 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: with that technology, no matter. I mean, could write your 506 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: location down on a piece of paper and yeah, you know, 507 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: copy it five times and give it out to people, 508 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have the same reach as you would if 509 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: you were doing this on the Internet, but you're still 510 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: giving away important information about you. So yeah, I mean 511 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: it's it's not the technology per se, it's what you're 512 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: doing with it, and then what you're sharing with it. 513 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: It matters. And and I really find cars point interesting 514 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: and the idea that he thinks it's it's a scary 515 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: thing to be to lose that ability to retain information, 516 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, because we essentially feel like we've offloaded that 517 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: off our brains so we can free up our brains. 518 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: We don't need to remember stuff because it's somewhere else. 519 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: For example, I used to be able to rattle off 520 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: the phone numbers of all of my close friends and 521 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: my family members, and now I'm able to remember about 522 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: four of them. Yes, because you have them in your 523 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: smart exactly, They're all in my context list. I don't 524 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: have to remember. I just go to the picture of 525 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: the person, say, Hey, there's the dude I want to 526 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: talk to, click on his picture, and there I go. Um, So, yeah, 527 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: is something to his argument. What I thought was interesting 528 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: is I read another point where this seems like, uh, 529 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: it's almost the opposite. Take A fellow by the name 530 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: of Kevin Slaven wrote an essay called the Ebb of Memory. 531 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: This was part of a book called This Will Change 532 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: Everything's a series of essays from various experts in various fields, 533 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: kind of giving their take on what will change everything. 534 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, several copies have been floating 535 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:33,959 Speaker 1: around the Yes. So Slavens point was that it was, 536 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: like I said, kind of the opposite. He said that 537 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: human memory, the fact that human memory degrades over time 538 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: is a good thing. That that the typical person, they 539 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: will experience something, they will remember it, and over time 540 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: aspects of that memory will change. We will drop certain details, 541 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: we may add certain things that did not happen into 542 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: the memory, and we will misremember. I mean, this is 543 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: why anecdotal evidence is not entirely uh, you know, reliable. 544 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: It's why when you bring witnesses in court cases, especially 545 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: for something that happened years and years ago, the testimonial 546 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: uh evidence is sometimes less reliable than any physical evidence 547 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: you found, right, because we don't remember things exactly the 548 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: way they happen necessarily uh. And he says this is 549 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: a good thing because if something tragic happens in our lives, 550 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: over time, we are able to distance ourselves. We forget 551 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: certain things. We don't feel that pain the same way 552 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: when we think back as we did when it happened. 553 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: There are people who have perfect memory, total recall, where 554 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: they are able to remember every single thing that they've 555 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: encountered with absolute clarity. And they explained they described their situation, 556 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: their their their experiences as being just as raw as 557 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: when it first happened. So the happiest moments of their lives, 558 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: when they think on those moments, they experience those emotions 559 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: as if it had just happen. Same thing with the 560 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: most tragic things. And Slaven's point is that that is 561 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: that is really a tough life. It is hard to 562 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: live that life where you can think back on the 563 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: things that happened that maybe you're ashamed of, or maybe 564 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: something that just hurt your feelings, and to experience that 565 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: all over again, it's really hard to live with that. 566 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: His point was that by offloading all this on the web, 567 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 1: we are preserving that information. All the information exists on 568 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: computers or in the cloud, we can access it at 569 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: any time. And then because information on computers and in 570 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: the cloud does not change, it's not like computers forget things. 571 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: We're going to see the details exactly as how we 572 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,479 Speaker 1: it we first put them in when we recorded them 573 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: the first time. And so Slaven's argument was that that this, 574 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: this this sharing that we're doing, this disregard of privacy, 575 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: will ultimately mean that we will live as if we 576 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: have perfect memories, and that as a result, we will 577 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: always be endanger of feeling the highest of highs and 578 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: the lowest of lows because we are not giving our 579 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: memory the chance to incorporate these things into our experience 580 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: and then just uh and and and evolve over time. 581 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: So that's kind of fascinating too. And again it it 582 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: relates back to geotagging, because we can now record the 583 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: events of our lives on with a level of detail 584 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: that is far beyond anything that anyone else has been 585 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: able to do automatically, right, Like, I mean, you could 586 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: have done it in the past, but it took more work. 587 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: It took your work to do that. Yeah. Yeah, it's 588 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: funny because one of the articles that I read in preparation, 589 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: uh for the podcast was an older piece that Charlie 590 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: Sorrel did for Wired. I mean this was this was 591 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: really before there were automated systems. I mean, I'm sure 592 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: there were things that that you could do, but he 593 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: was relying on the then new memory cards that had 594 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: built in GPS system. UM. So he said, you know, 595 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: basically that the the technology hadn't been made popular at 596 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: that point to automatically geotag and send photos. UM. So 597 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: it's still sort of a new thing. And you know, 598 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: you could use if you could sync up the date 599 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: or the time actually the time on your GPS receiver 600 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: and your your camera. If you have the timestamp, then 601 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,239 Speaker 1: it's you know, easy to sync up. As you were 602 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: saying before, Um, you may not necessarily have the information stored. Uh, 603 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: you may have to write it down, but at least 604 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: you had some sort of record of doing that. Um. 605 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: You know, so there there were ways to do that 606 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: even before it became a popular technology to build right 607 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: in of course those of us with smartphones. UM. You know, 608 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: I've been playing around with that since I got an 609 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: Android found myself. UM and it's uh, you know, it's 610 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: so much easier now to automatically do it. Um. And 611 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: I think that that can be the problem if you're 612 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: somebody who wants to do it sometimes but not other times. 613 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: If you just leave it enabled, you may inadvertently uh 614 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: save information, or if you leave it off all the time, 615 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: you may wish you had done it later, you know. Yeah, 616 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: and we should point out that. You know, I talked 617 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: to a lot about the services that automatically incorporate the 618 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: meta data into them. You don't even if you aren't 619 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: using a service that does that. If there, if the 620 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: metadata is there, it is possible to see it. It 621 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: just means that the person who's looking at the photo 622 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: has to open it in an application that will show 623 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: that metadata. So a lot of photo editors do it. 624 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: Even photo viewers in the more recent operating systems will 625 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: let you see that. If you have an older operating system, 626 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: like I don't know people who are using certain computers 627 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: for certain companies, um, you may not be able to 628 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: see that metadata because the operating system came into being 629 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: and the applications came into being before GPS metadata was 630 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: included with photos popular, right, So you don't have that 631 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: X that I found that out. I went through all 632 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: of the programs I have where I can manipulate photos, 633 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: and I tried to see which ones would let me 634 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: see the meta data that included GPS location, which ones don't. 635 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: I have one program on this computer that lets me 636 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: see meta data. Well, it's definitely, it's definitely becoming more popular. 637 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: Just about every editing software now. It's you know, designed 638 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: for the consumer um and if you're using really high 639 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: end stuff, well they may include it, but it's not 640 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: necessarily something that you know, even things like Windows Picture 641 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: Viewer and in the more recent operating systems you can 642 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: find the meta data there and I Photo for the 643 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: Mac with its know it's got features, right, So yeah, 644 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: so yeah, if you have a newer machine, if you 645 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: have like Windows seven or I believe even Windows Vista, UM, 646 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: you would be able to view this information pretty simply 647 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: just by looking at the properties and looking for that 648 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: that location data might be in longitude and latitude. But 649 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: all you have to do there is copy and paste 650 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: it into a program like just like Google Maps, and 651 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: that'll that'll show you exactly where that location is. Yeah. 652 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it's a really interesting technology. It 653 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: has a lot of legitimate uses, a lot of fun uses. Sure, 654 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: they're just just like any other tool. There are good 655 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: ways to use it and bad ways to use it, 656 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: and you should be aware of both before you just 657 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: go out there and start clicking pictures of everything. Yeah, 658 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: So that was a good discussion, and I apologize for 659 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: getting very philosophical towards the end of it, but I 660 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: just felt that that was one of those things that, 661 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's really interesting to me and I wanted 662 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,439 Speaker 1: to dive into it. And again, it's it's like anything else. 663 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: There are good points and bad points to to recording 664 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: that information. Yep, yep, yep. So, if you guys have 665 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: any stories you want to share or any thoughts about 666 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: privacy and the web and what its role is. Do 667 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: you think privacy is a thing of the past. Do 668 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: you think we're actually going to get to a point 669 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: where we will all, either by choice or perhaps by force, 670 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: no longer have privacy? Let's know. You can let's know 671 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook the handle there is tech Stuff 672 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: hs W, or you can shoot us an email. That 673 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: address is tech stuff at how stuffworks dot com and 674 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: Chris and I will talk to you again soon. For 675 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how 676 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, 677 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner 678 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: of our homepage. The How Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. 679 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes. Brought to you by the 680 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you