Speaker 1: Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop
Speaker 1: weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Ramsy's job. He is Ramsy's jaw. I am Q Ward.
Speaker 1: You are still tuned in or tuning back in, or
Speaker 1: coming to see what we're doing, or checking on us,
Speaker 1: or you missed us, or you just really need somebody
Speaker 1: to talk to, or whatever the case, but Civic Cipher
Speaker 1: is here. You're welcome. You welcome to sit with us
Speaker 1: because we going through it all. I know Q was
Speaker 1: having a tough time when I was reading about all
Speaker 1: the instances of racism Donald Trump has been accused of
Speaker 1: over the years, and you know that.
Speaker 2: Guy has a very We need each other. He has
Speaker 2: a disproportionate negative impact on my life than probably any
Speaker 2: person I've never met. I don't know him. We have
Speaker 2: He's a gonna please stranger. I've never had any actual
Speaker 2: interaction with him, but he has a disproportionate negative impact
Speaker 2: on my mental well being.
Speaker 1: Well, stick around because we're going to discuss Victoria Lee's
Speaker 1: shooting death at the hands of police. But before we
Speaker 1: get there, it's time to discuss b A b A
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Speaker 1: and Today's BABA is one that's very personal to us.
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Speaker 1: And we appreciate all of your support. All right, this
Speaker 1: one is a little tough. One of the things that
Speaker 1: we were tasked with doing when we created the show
Speaker 1: Q and myself was sharing this platform. Black people, insofar
Speaker 1: as minorities are concerned in this country, have a very
Speaker 1: very long standing history.
Speaker 2: And have.
Speaker 1: A lot in the way of political power and influence,
Speaker 1: a lot in the way of money spend, and there's
Speaker 1: a good number of us. And something else that's interesting
Speaker 1: is a lot of times the problems that black people
Speaker 1: face in this country are problems that other minorities, other
Speaker 1: disenfranchised people, other people who have been relegated to the
Speaker 1: margins margins rather.
Speaker 2: Deal with as well.
Speaker 1: So when we created this show, it was actually my
Speaker 1: big brother raka Iris, science of the Dilated Peoples, who said,
Speaker 1: don't forget about the people who were outside protesting for
Speaker 1: your benefit in twenty twenty and Q is not that
Speaker 1: way and I'm not that way.
Speaker 2: We would never forget all the people.
Speaker 1: Who were Hispanic, all the people who are Asian, all
Speaker 1: the people who were Muslim, all the people who are Jewish,
Speaker 1: all the people who were Sikh, all the people who
Speaker 1: were old, all the people who were young, were out
Speaker 1: there supporting black lives in that moment. So when the
Speaker 1: tables turn and stop, Asian hate becomes a movement. This
Speaker 1: show is now our Asian American and Pacific Islander Brothers
Speaker 1: and Sisters show. Granted, we will ask the questions and
Speaker 1: facilitate the conversations, but no, we built this and we
Speaker 1: will share it. You were supportive of us, and we
Speaker 1: will not forget that you were there right when you know,
Speaker 1: once upon a time we first started, there was this
Speaker 1: crisis at the border, kids getting locked in cages, and
Speaker 1: it was just this inhuman treatment of human beings who
Speaker 1: were seeking refuge. And there were Hispanic people, there were
Speaker 1: Mexican people, people from country south of the American border
Speaker 1: that had a lot to say about that this is
Speaker 1: the place you come. This is a black show, sure,
Speaker 1: but this is just as much an Asian show and Hispanic.
Speaker 1: If you need it, come here, let's let's do that
Speaker 1: for you. We'll go behind the scenes. And we've done this.
Speaker 1: We've told stories of people who were gay, people were
Speaker 1: Palestinian people who were Jewish. Had we had to condemned
Speaker 1: black people's treatment in the videos that we saw of
Speaker 1: a people, we had to condemn black people's treatment and
Speaker 1: articulation of Jewish people and their position and their role
Speaker 1: in society when black people were saying it. Because right
Speaker 1: is right is wrong and wrong is wrong. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what color you are, and we will stand and
Speaker 1: be brothers. Q and I don't let me speak for
Speaker 1: you entirely, but we will stand as your brothers because
Speaker 1: we believe in the goal of this show that we
Speaker 1: can create a more inclusive environment where we know how
Speaker 1: to be better to each other. In that spirit, we
Speaker 1: want to explain some commonalities in what we see with
Speaker 1: this Asian woman's death.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So her name is Victoria Lee. We have a video
Speaker 1: that we're going to share some people that are able
Speaker 1: to see the show. You'll be able to watch it,
Speaker 1: but the audio tells you effectively what's happening as well.
Speaker 1: So let's get into that.
Speaker 3: Audie camera video from New Jersey shows help they shot
Speaker 3: and killed a woman in her home. Officers arrived at
Speaker 3: Victoria Lee's apartment last month after her family called nine
Speaker 3: one one about a mental health crisis. They were looking
Speaker 3: for help. The family attorney says the twenty five year old,
Speaker 3: diagnosed with bipolar disorder, was harmless thanks busy.
Speaker 4: A police body camera video shows an officer meeting Victoria
Speaker 4: Lely's brother at the door of their forty New Jersey
Speaker 4: apartment in the early hours of July twenty eighth, about
Speaker 4: thirteen minutes after he first called nine one one she had.
Speaker 5: A mental press All right, we'll send an officer report
Speaker 5: just what I'm doing this Finally, it's a mental health we.
Speaker 2: Have to send officers also.
Speaker 4: He then called nine one one again to cancel the
Speaker 4: emergency dispatch. Saint Lee had a foldable knife, and.
Speaker 5: I just cancel a call, not for a mental health called.
Speaker 5: She had a nice where now what does she have?
Speaker 4: The officer arrived at the building shortly after the second
Speaker 4: call briefly saw Lee with her mom inside the apartment
Speaker 4: before they locked the door on him and several arriving officers.
Speaker 2: I want to break the door down.
Speaker 4: The first responders planned their entrance, then knocked the door down.
Speaker 4: Video shows Lee approached police with what appears to be
Speaker 4: a full water jug in her hand as officer Tony
Speaker 4: Pickens Junior fired a single shot, striking Lee in her chest.
Speaker 2: As officers tried to provide.
Speaker 4: Medical aid to Lee, but she was pronounced dead at
Speaker 4: a local hospital. A knife was recovered on the scene.
Speaker 4: It's unclear from the video if she was holding it
Speaker 4: when officers enter it, but our family says she dropped
Speaker 4: it before they opened the door. Well, some US police
Speaker 4: departments have enlisted mental health experts and social workers. Many
Speaker 4: officers themselves are not trained for these specific interactions.
Speaker 1: So we want to give credit where it's due. That
Speaker 1: is courtesy of CBS News, and the first voice you
Speaker 1: heard there was Gail King. I know that there were
Speaker 1: some things. I'm watching you watch the video. I know
Speaker 1: there were some things, some lines that you connected Q
Speaker 1: and some things that stood out to you. So I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not going to go first that the one
Speaker 1: you got it.
Speaker 2: I think far too often when people hear us being
Speaker 2: critical of police, their mind pulls up a police officer
Speaker 2: that they know. That's an awesome person. Yeah, that's kind,
Speaker 2: that's courteous, that's polite, that's respectful, that comes around and
Speaker 2: knows them and knows their kids, and all of their
Speaker 2: interactions with that officer are good. So they don't understand
Speaker 2: what it is that we're talking about. And what we
Speaker 2: keep trying to reiterate is that we're not talking about
Speaker 2: Officer King, Taylor, Officer Ward, or we're not talking about
Speaker 2: any specific officer. We're talking about the system of policing
Speaker 2: in this country and how it is, by the nature
Speaker 2: of its conception and by its execution in a lot
Speaker 2: of cases, just done wrong. Not because the officers are
Speaker 2: all bad people. They are just part of a system
Speaker 2: that has kind of set them up to be on
Speaker 2: the wrong side of a lot of outcomes based on
Speaker 2: the way the job is done. So this kid calls
Speaker 2: the police. Rewind, this kid calls nine to one one,
Speaker 2: So let's start there. There should be a different phone
Speaker 2: number family members going through a mental health crisis, because
Speaker 2: what we learned in this video is if you call
Speaker 2: nine to one one for a mental health crisis, a
Speaker 2: police officer has to come. And what you might notice
Speaker 2: if you listen to that video is as soon as
Speaker 2: the dispatcher told him an officer was coming, he said, okay,
Speaker 2: let me cancel it. Just an ambulance. I'm sorry, just
Speaker 2: an ambulance, is what he said. The dispatcher told him, no,
Speaker 2: for mental health, we have to also send an officer.
Speaker 2: This kid said, okay, never mind, let's just cancel it
Speaker 2: all together. And he then did what I believe he
Speaker 2: thought was helping by disclosing that his sister had a knife.
Speaker 1: So he didn't want the police to come because they
Speaker 1: would see that.
Speaker 2: But once he saw that, the dispatcher like got excited,
Speaker 2: and I don't mean excited in a way that's happy,
Speaker 2: just alarmed. The situation got more serious and escalated. The
Speaker 2: dispatcher's entire mood change. She has a knife, so I'd
Speaker 2: have to imagine that communication with the officers was different
Speaker 2: than it would have been had that fact not been
Speaker 2: explained to the dispatcher. The police arrive and the brother
Speaker 2: is now trying to protect his sister, but he does
Speaker 2: not understand how. And this family, I can kind of
Speaker 2: tell from their accent, probably first generation here and doesn't
Speaker 2: know how to fully communicate his fears with these officers,
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to actually protect his sister, even though
Speaker 2: he's trying his best. The mother and the sister then
Speaker 2: open the door and there's some interaction with the officers,
Speaker 2: and you can hear the young lady is upset, and
Speaker 2: now the police have determined as the mother, probably trying
Speaker 2: to protect her daughter as well, closes and locks the door,
Speaker 2: the police have now determined they have to break the
Speaker 2: door down. Now, as we were watching that video and
Speaker 2: listening to it again, was what was your thinking or
Speaker 2: your position when they've now determined, well, now we have
Speaker 2: to break down your door. And one of the officers ask,
Speaker 2: go ahead, read it right there? Who wants to go
Speaker 2: lethal and who wants to go less lethal? And one
Speaker 2: of the officers without hesitation, volunteers, I'll go lethal.
Speaker 1: So the thing that jumps out at me is that
Speaker 1: I try to be objective here.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'll admit it ten times out of ten, but I try. Okay,
Speaker 1: So for people that are police apologists, I'm going to
Speaker 1: try to humor. You're the lens through which you might
Speaker 1: view this, Okay, try to account for that that vantage point.
Speaker 1: If she has a knife and she's in the apartment
Speaker 1: with another person, Okay, what that means is that there's
Speaker 1: a person whose life is at risk. Okay, a person
Speaker 1: can die. And if you're the police officer and you
Speaker 1: show up and you recognize that this is a life
Speaker 1: and that situation, you have a duty to protect life
Speaker 1: by taking the other life.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: This is just the reality of the police officers. That's
Speaker 1: what they think.
Speaker 2: Mindset.
Speaker 1: Yeah, got it. So they started it because they brought
Speaker 1: the knife. I'm just here to keep the.
Speaker 2: Peace, right. This is what the officers thinking.
Speaker 1: And when this officer says I'm gonna go lethal because
Speaker 1: of probably his perception of the seriousness of the situation,
Speaker 1: forget the fact that this woman is clinically diagnosed with
Speaker 1: bipolar disorder. She's twenty five years old and she's in
Speaker 1: the middle of a mental health crisis, which was articulated
Speaker 1: to the nine to one one dispatcher. Again, we're talking
Speaker 1: about a system nine one one dispatcher. Mental health police
Speaker 1: have to come. They're bringing guns. Okay, that is not
Speaker 1: the place you need guns. It's not even the place
Speaker 1: you need knives. So please don't bring a gun. And
Speaker 1: the phone call wasn't listen. My sister has a mental
Speaker 1: health disorder. My sister's having a crisis right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's in the midst of one. Yeah, so sending those
Speaker 1: guns here make it worse. It's going to make it worse.
Speaker 2: So that's where I was going.
Speaker 1: When I look at it through that lens, I see
Speaker 1: how a person can arrive at those conclusions. But I
Speaker 1: am biased. As I mentioned, I have a beating heart,
Speaker 1: I have emotions, and I would rather live in a
Speaker 1: world where Victoria Lee was still alive.
Speaker 2: I'm sure her family would agree. Okay.
Speaker 1: The way I think about it is, if a knife
Speaker 1: is in that room and it is a mental health crisis,
Speaker 1: one person potentially could die. Okay, we know that. But
Speaker 1: if I can navigate these waters the way that I
Speaker 1: want to. I would like to the situation and optimally
Speaker 1: fleshes out the way that best case scenario.
Speaker 2: Or they body or they send a mental health profession
Speaker 2: or that. But but we're here.
Speaker 1: There's no mental health professor. Our system is not set up.
Speaker 1: Our system is failing us actively right now. The officers too. Okay,
Speaker 1: but if I go in there, no gun's blazing, one
Speaker 1: person could die, but also two.
Speaker 2: People could live.
Speaker 6: Three people could live, three people could live, right, But
Speaker 6: you know, of the two people that are in behind
Speaker 6: that door, if I go in with my gun out,
Speaker 6: one person is definitely going to die.
Speaker 1: So a person like me, granted I've had more time
Speaker 1: to think about it, and they had time to put
Speaker 1: their strategy together.
Speaker 2: For those that were able to see.
Speaker 1: The video, you saw them having a conference outside, waiting
Speaker 1: for more officers, et cetera.
Speaker 2: You know what, there was not time for for Victoria
Speaker 2: to put the knife down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was about two seconds when they shouted, dropped
Speaker 1: the knife, and less than two seconds the shot fire off,
Speaker 1: probably one second one and a half seconds drop the night.
Speaker 1: So between the end of that statement, I would I'd
Speaker 1: be surprised if it was one second, right, So imagine
Speaker 1: the amount of time it takes in the middle of
Speaker 1: a mental health crisis to process the doors open. These
Speaker 1: people are coming at me. They're all shouting at me
Speaker 1: and oh yeah, I am holding let me drop this knife,
Speaker 1: you know whatever. But that's the ready fire aim thing
Speaker 1: that happens with police that I talk about so often
Speaker 1: on the.
Speaker 2: Show, especially once the gun is strong. Well, I took
Speaker 2: it out, so I got to use it right now.
Speaker 2: It's easy for us, I'll see this. It's easy for
Speaker 2: us to be critical of police and what they've done
Speaker 2: after the fact. But this happens all the time. So
Speaker 2: now again we're talking about a system. We had to
Speaker 2: talk about Sonia Massey on the show, and it's not
Speaker 2: the officer. It's a system that makes these people feel
Speaker 2: like they are the authors and the finishers of the
Speaker 2: fate of human beings. They can end lives because they
Speaker 2: have a gun and they believe some noble cause, and
Speaker 2: often enough the cause is just protecting themselves. So you
Speaker 2: showed up and now you're scared, and you brought a
Speaker 2: gun and you killed me because you were scared. You
Speaker 2: didn't even have to show up, Pam. I called you
Speaker 2: for help, and you came to me and harmed me.
Speaker 1: So that is indicative of the system, especially because it
Speaker 1: happens so frequently. So again, when I look at just
Speaker 1: kind of the state of play, there's a person behind
Speaker 1: this door with a knife, perhaps in the middle of
Speaker 1: an argument with their mother or whatever situation is happening.
Speaker 1: If I go in here with my gun out, one
Speaker 1: person's definitely gonna die. My gun is out, okay, And
Speaker 1: all these guys with me know that if I go
Speaker 1: in here, no gun's out, tasers, whatever, there's the potential.
Speaker 2: That nobody dies. Nobody dies. You know what's interesting, Rams,
Speaker 2: And we've had this conversation more than any other conversation
Speaker 2: on our show about accountability for officers and officer involved shootings,
Speaker 2: and because there in so many cases, isn't any accountability,
Speaker 2: there's no hesitation to shoot because we're listen, we understand
Speaker 2: that there have been cases. We're in order to protect
Speaker 2: the most people, someone got shot, in order to protect
Speaker 2: the life of the officer, someone got shot. We're not
Speaker 2: saying that that never happened. That we talked about those
Speaker 2: on That absolutely happens. But the thought press process behind
Speaker 2: taking out this gun to kill changes drastically when on
Speaker 2: the other side of this, I might go to prison.
Speaker 2: Watch this.
Speaker 1: Let me add to that, right there, Q and I,
Speaker 1: we both have a friend who got caught up in
Speaker 1: a murder case when he was younger. Hear the story
Speaker 1: all the time, and it ended up being that he
Speaker 1: was able to prove that it was self defense. But
Speaker 1: imagine the gravity of taking a life, taking a human's life, like,
Speaker 1: that's got to if you have if you're like saying,
Speaker 1: that's got.
Speaker 2: To really trouble you have any empathy at all, right, But.
Speaker 1: For normal people, their reality is like, if I do this,
Speaker 1: there might be some consequences, And.
Speaker 2: For police, there's most likely going to be some consequences.
Speaker 2: That was premeditated. He made the choice beforehand.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to go.
Speaker 2: So what do you do with that? It's heartbreaking because
Speaker 2: we know this could be avoided. There's just people who
Speaker 2: refuse to enact different policies and a different system altogether
Speaker 2: so that the outcomes don't continue to be this over
Speaker 2: and over again.
Speaker 1: Well, let me give you some quick game before we
Speaker 1: let you go. The idea of defunding the police will
Speaker 1: certainly free up some money to have different types of
Speaker 1: people respond to calls like that, maybe mental health professionals,
Speaker 1: maybe people that don't need to end other people's lives.
Speaker 1: Maybe everybody can make it home that day. Sure, bad
Speaker 1: people are with us and they always will be. But
Speaker 1: I don't believe this was a bad person. This is
Speaker 1: a person who was working on mental health and now
Speaker 1: we have to live in the world.
Speaker 2: I'll say this with a little bit of time that
Speaker 2: we have left. We would usually dedicate this to having
Speaker 2: you guys follow us and all that, but listen to this.
Speaker 2: People who say she threatened to stab him in the neck,
Speaker 2: go ahead and shoot me either don't know how mental
Speaker 2: health crisis come about or cannot conceive of a loved
Speaker 2: one in a similar situation shot within two seconds of
Speaker 2: yelling drop the knife, which her family says was already dropped.
Speaker 2: Reminds us both of Sonya Massey.
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on social media at Civic Cipher,
Speaker 1: I'm ramses Josh
Speaker 2: I am q Ward on all socials as well, and
Speaker 2: until next week, y'all, peace, Peace,