WEBVTT - 082124 The Police Killing of Victoria Lee (Part 2)

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<v Speaker 1>Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast

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<v Speaker 1>the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop

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<v Speaker 1>weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Ramsy's job. He is Ramsy's jaw. I am Q Ward.

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<v Speaker 1>You are still tuned in or tuning back in, or

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<v Speaker 1>or you missed us, or you just really need somebody

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<v Speaker 1>to talk to, or whatever the case, but Civic Cipher

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<v Speaker 1>is here. You're welcome. You welcome to sit with us

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<v Speaker 1>because we going through it all. I know Q was

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<v Speaker 1>having a tough time when I was reading about all

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<v Speaker 1>the instances of racism Donald Trump has been accused of

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<v Speaker 1>over the years, and you know that.

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<v Speaker 2>Guy has a very We need each other. He has

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<v Speaker 2>a disproportionate negative impact on my life than probably any

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<v Speaker 2>person I've never met. I don't know him. We have

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<v Speaker 2>He's a gonna please stranger. I've never had any actual

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<v Speaker 2>interaction with him, but he has a disproportionate negative impact

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<v Speaker 2>on my mental well being.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, stick around because we're going to discuss Victoria Lee's

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<v Speaker 1>shooting death at the hands of police. But before we

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<v Speaker 1>get there, it's time to discuss b A b A

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<v Speaker 1>becoming a better ally BABA and Today's BABA is sponsored

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<v Speaker 1>and Today's BABA is one that's very personal to us.

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<v Speaker 1>And we appreciate all of your support. All right, this

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<v Speaker 1>one is a little tough. One of the things that

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<v Speaker 1>we were tasked with doing when we created the show

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<v Speaker 1>Q and myself was sharing this platform. Black people, insofar

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<v Speaker 1>as minorities are concerned in this country, have a very

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<v Speaker 1>very long standing history.

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<v Speaker 2>And have.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot in the way of political power and influence,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot in the way of money spend, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>a good number of us. And something else that's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>is a lot of times the problems that black people

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<v Speaker 1>face in this country are problems that other minorities, other

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<v Speaker 1>disenfranchised people, other people who have been relegated to the

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<v Speaker 1>margins margins rather.

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<v Speaker 2>Deal with as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So when we created this show, it was actually my

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<v Speaker 1>big brother raka Iris, science of the Dilated Peoples, who said,

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<v Speaker 1>don't forget about the people who were outside protesting for

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<v Speaker 1>your benefit in twenty twenty and Q is not that

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<v Speaker 1>way and I'm not that way.

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<v Speaker 2>We would never forget all the people.

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<v Speaker 1>Who were Hispanic, all the people who are Asian, all

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<v Speaker 1>the people who were Muslim, all the people who are Jewish,

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<v Speaker 1>all the people who were Sikh, all the people who

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<v Speaker 1>were old, all the people who were young, were out

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<v Speaker 1>there supporting black lives in that moment. So when the

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<v Speaker 1>tables turn and stop, Asian hate becomes a movement. This

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<v Speaker 1>show is now our Asian American and Pacific Islander Brothers

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<v Speaker 1>and Sisters show. Granted, we will ask the questions and

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<v Speaker 1>facilitate the conversations, but no, we built this and we

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<v Speaker 1>will share it. You were supportive of us, and we

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<v Speaker 1>will not forget that you were there right when you know,

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<v Speaker 1>once upon a time we first started, there was this

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<v Speaker 1>crisis at the border, kids getting locked in cages, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was just this inhuman treatment of human beings who

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<v Speaker 1>were seeking refuge. And there were Hispanic people, there were

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<v Speaker 1>Mexican people, people from country south of the American border

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<v Speaker 1>that had a lot to say about that this is

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<v Speaker 1>the place you come. This is a black show, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>but this is just as much an Asian show and Hispanic.

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<v Speaker 1>If you need it, come here, let's let's do that

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<v Speaker 1>for you. We'll go behind the scenes. And we've done this.

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<v Speaker 1>We've told stories of people who were gay, people were

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<v Speaker 1>Palestinian people who were Jewish. Had we had to condemned

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<v Speaker 1>black people's treatment in the videos that we saw of

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<v Speaker 1>a people, we had to condemn black people's treatment and

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<v Speaker 1>articulation of Jewish people and their position and their role

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<v Speaker 1>in society when black people were saying it. Because right

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<v Speaker 1>is right is wrong and wrong is wrong. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>matter what color you are, and we will stand and

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<v Speaker 1>be brothers. Q and I don't let me speak for

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<v Speaker 1>you entirely, but we will stand as your brothers because

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<v Speaker 1>we believe in the goal of this show that we

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<v Speaker 1>can create a more inclusive environment where we know how

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<v Speaker 1>to be better to each other. In that spirit, we

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<v Speaker 1>want to explain some commonalities in what we see with

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<v Speaker 1>this Asian woman's death.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So her name is Victoria Lee. We have a video

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<v Speaker 1>that we're going to share some people that are able

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<v Speaker 1>to see the show. You'll be able to watch it,

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<v Speaker 1>but the audio tells you effectively what's happening as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's get into that.

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<v Speaker 3>Audie camera video from New Jersey shows help they shot

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<v Speaker 3>and killed a woman in her home. Officers arrived at

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<v Speaker 3>Victoria Lee's apartment last month after her family called nine

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<v Speaker 3>one one about a mental health crisis. They were looking

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<v Speaker 3>for help. The family attorney says the twenty five year old,

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<v Speaker 3>diagnosed with bipolar disorder, was harmless thanks busy.

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<v Speaker 4>A police body camera video shows an officer meeting Victoria

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<v Speaker 4>Lely's brother at the door of their forty New Jersey

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<v Speaker 4>apartment in the early hours of July twenty eighth, about

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<v Speaker 4>thirteen minutes after he first called nine one one she had.

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<v Speaker 5>A mental press All right, we'll send an officer report

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<v Speaker 5>just what I'm doing this Finally, it's a mental health we.

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<v Speaker 2>Have to send officers also.

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<v Speaker 4>He then called nine one one again to cancel the

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<v Speaker 4>emergency dispatch. Saint Lee had a foldable knife, and.

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<v Speaker 5>I just cancel a call, not for a mental health called.

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<v Speaker 5>She had a nice where now what does she have?

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<v Speaker 4>The officer arrived at the building shortly after the second

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<v Speaker 4>call briefly saw Lee with her mom inside the apartment

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<v Speaker 4>before they locked the door on him and several arriving officers.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to break the door down.

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<v Speaker 4>The first responders planned their entrance, then knocked the door down.

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<v Speaker 4>Video shows Lee approached police with what appears to be

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<v Speaker 4>a full water jug in her hand as officer Tony

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<v Speaker 4>Pickens Junior fired a single shot, striking Lee in her chest.

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<v Speaker 2>As officers tried to provide.

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<v Speaker 4>Medical aid to Lee, but she was pronounced dead at

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<v Speaker 4>a local hospital. A knife was recovered on the scene.

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<v Speaker 4>It's unclear from the video if she was holding it

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<v Speaker 4>when officers enter it, but our family says she dropped

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<v Speaker 4>it before they opened the door. Well, some US police

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<v Speaker 4>departments have enlisted mental health experts and social workers. Many

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<v Speaker 4>officers themselves are not trained for these specific interactions.

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<v Speaker 1>So we want to give credit where it's due. That

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<v Speaker 1>is courtesy of CBS News, and the first voice you

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<v Speaker 1>heard there was Gail King. I know that there were

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<v Speaker 1>some things. I'm watching you watch the video. I know

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<v Speaker 1>there were some things, some lines that you connected Q

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<v Speaker 1>and some things that stood out to you. So I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not I'm not going to go first that the one

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<v Speaker 1>you got it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think far too often when people hear us being

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<v Speaker 2>critical of police, their mind pulls up a police officer

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<v Speaker 2>that they know. That's an awesome person. Yeah, that's kind,

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<v Speaker 2>that's courteous, that's polite, that's respectful, that comes around and

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<v Speaker 2>knows them and knows their kids, and all of their

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<v Speaker 2>interactions with that officer are good. So they don't understand

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<v Speaker 2>what it is that we're talking about. And what we

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<v Speaker 2>keep trying to reiterate is that we're not talking about

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<v Speaker 2>Officer King, Taylor, Officer Ward, or we're not talking about

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<v Speaker 2>any specific officer. We're talking about the system of policing

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<v Speaker 2>in this country and how it is, by the nature

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<v Speaker 2>of its conception and by its execution in a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of cases, just done wrong. Not because the officers are

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<v Speaker 2>all bad people. They are just part of a system

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<v Speaker 2>that has kind of set them up to be on

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong side of a lot of outcomes based on

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<v Speaker 2>the way the job is done. So this kid calls

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<v Speaker 2>the police. Rewind, this kid calls nine to one one,

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<v Speaker 2>So let's start there. There should be a different phone

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<v Speaker 2>number family members going through a mental health crisis, because

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<v Speaker 2>what we learned in this video is if you call

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<v Speaker 2>nine to one one for a mental health crisis, a

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<v Speaker 2>police officer has to come. And what you might notice

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<v Speaker 2>if you listen to that video is as soon as

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<v Speaker 2>the dispatcher told him an officer was coming, he said, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>let me cancel it. Just an ambulance. I'm sorry, just

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<v Speaker 2>an ambulance, is what he said. The dispatcher told him, no,

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<v Speaker 2>for mental health, we have to also send an officer.

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<v Speaker 2>This kid said, okay, never mind, let's just cancel it

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<v Speaker 2>all together. And he then did what I believe he

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<v Speaker 2>thought was helping by disclosing that his sister had a knife.

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<v Speaker 1>So he didn't want the police to come because they

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<v Speaker 1>would see that.

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<v Speaker 2>But once he saw that, the dispatcher like got excited,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't mean excited in a way that's happy,

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<v Speaker 2>just alarmed. The situation got more serious and escalated. The

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<v Speaker 2>dispatcher's entire mood change. She has a knife, so I'd

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<v Speaker 2>have to imagine that communication with the officers was different

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<v Speaker 2>than it would have been had that fact not been

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<v Speaker 2>explained to the dispatcher. The police arrive and the brother

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<v Speaker 2>is now trying to protect his sister, but he does

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<v Speaker 2>not understand how. And this family, I can kind of

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<v Speaker 2>tell from their accent, probably first generation here and doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>know how to fully communicate his fears with these officers,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't know how to actually protect his sister, even though

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<v Speaker 2>he's trying his best. The mother and the sister then

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<v Speaker 2>open the door and there's some interaction with the officers,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can hear the young lady is upset, and

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<v Speaker 2>now the police have determined as the mother, probably trying

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<v Speaker 2>to protect her daughter as well, closes and locks the door,

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<v Speaker 2>the police have now determined they have to break the

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<v Speaker 2>door down. Now, as we were watching that video and

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<v Speaker 2>listening to it again, was what was your thinking or

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<v Speaker 2>your position when they've now determined, well, now we have

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<v Speaker 2>to break down your door. And one of the officers ask,

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<v Speaker 2>go ahead, read it right there? Who wants to go

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<v Speaker 2>lethal and who wants to go less lethal? And one

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<v Speaker 2>of the officers without hesitation, volunteers, I'll go lethal.

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<v Speaker 1>So the thing that jumps out at me is that

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<v Speaker 1>I try to be objective here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll admit it ten times out of ten, but I try. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So for people that are police apologists, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>try to humor. You're the lens through which you might

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<v Speaker 1>view this, Okay, try to account for that that vantage point.

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<v Speaker 1>If she has a knife and she's in the apartment

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:24.000
<v Speaker 1>with another person, Okay, what that means is that there's

0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>a person whose life is at risk. Okay, a person

0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 1>can die. And if you're the police officer and you

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.760
<v Speaker 1>show up and you recognize that this is a life

0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 1>and that situation, you have a duty to protect life

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 1>by taking the other life.

0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.360
<v Speaker 1>This is just the reality of the police officers. That's

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 1>what they think.

0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Mindset.

0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, got it. So they started it because they brought

0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 1>the knife. I'm just here to keep the.

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Peace, right. This is what the officers thinking.

0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 1>And when this officer says I'm gonna go lethal because

0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 1>of probably his perception of the seriousness of the situation,

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.120
<v Speaker 1>forget the fact that this woman is clinically diagnosed with

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.080
<v Speaker 1>bipolar disorder. She's twenty five years old and she's in

0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 1>the middle of a mental health crisis, which was articulated

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 1>to the nine to one one dispatcher. Again, we're talking

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 1>about a system nine one one dispatcher. Mental health police

0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>have to come. They're bringing guns. Okay, that is not

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.560
<v Speaker 1>the place you need guns. It's not even the place

0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>you need knives. So please don't bring a gun. And

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.640
<v Speaker 1>the phone call wasn't listen. My sister has a mental

0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:55.880
<v Speaker 1>health disorder. My sister's having a crisis right now. Yeah,

0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.240
<v Speaker 1>she's in the midst of one. Yeah, so sending those

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 1>guns here make it worse. It's going to make it worse.

0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 2>So that's where I was going.

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.680
<v Speaker 1>When I look at it through that lens, I see

0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>how a person can arrive at those conclusions. But I

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 1>am biased. As I mentioned, I have a beating heart,

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 1>I have emotions, and I would rather live in a

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 1>world where Victoria Lee was still alive.

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure her family would agree. Okay.

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.600
<v Speaker 1>The way I think about it is, if a knife

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:38.160
<v Speaker 1>is in that room and it is a mental health crisis,

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 1>one person potentially could die. Okay, we know that. But

0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 1>if I can navigate these waters the way that I

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>want to. I would like to the situation and optimally

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.560
<v Speaker 1>fleshes out the way that best case scenario.

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Or they body or they send a mental health profession

0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:07.360
<v Speaker 2>or that. But but we're here.

0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.720
<v Speaker 1>There's no mental health professor. Our system is not set up.

0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Our system is failing us actively right now. The officers too. Okay,

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:19.960
<v Speaker 1>but if I go in there, no gun's blazing, one

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 1>person could die, but also two.

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 2>People could live.

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 6>Three people could live, three people could live, right, But

0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.359
<v Speaker 6>you know, of the two people that are in behind

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.760
<v Speaker 6>that door, if I go in with my gun out,

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 6>one person is definitely going to die.

0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.640
<v Speaker 1>So a person like me, granted I've had more time

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:42.080
<v Speaker 1>to think about it, and they had time to put

0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:42.920
<v Speaker 1>their strategy together.

0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:43.960
<v Speaker 2>For those that were able to see.

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 1>The video, you saw them having a conference outside, waiting

0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:47.240
<v Speaker 1>for more officers, et cetera.

0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 2>You know what, there was not time for for Victoria

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 2>to put the knife down.

0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was about two seconds when they shouted, dropped

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.360
<v Speaker 1>the knife, and less than two seconds the shot fire off,

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 1>probably one second one and a half seconds drop the night.

0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.120
<v Speaker 1>So between the end of that statement, I would I'd

0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.160
<v Speaker 1>be surprised if it was one second, right, So imagine

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:11.920
<v Speaker 1>the amount of time it takes in the middle of

0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 1>a mental health crisis to process the doors open. These

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.199
<v Speaker 1>people are coming at me. They're all shouting at me

0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.520
<v Speaker 1>and oh yeah, I am holding let me drop this knife,

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.360
<v Speaker 1>you know whatever. But that's the ready fire aim thing

0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.200
<v Speaker 1>that happens with police that I talk about so often

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 1>on the.

0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Show, especially once the gun is strong. Well, I took

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.200
<v Speaker 2>it out, so I got to use it right now.

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 2>It's easy for us, I'll see this. It's easy for

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.920
<v Speaker 2>us to be critical of police and what they've done

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:43.639
<v Speaker 2>after the fact. But this happens all the time. So

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.280
<v Speaker 2>now again we're talking about a system. We had to

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 2>talk about Sonia Massey on the show, and it's not

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.359
<v Speaker 2>the officer. It's a system that makes these people feel

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.959
<v Speaker 2>like they are the authors and the finishers of the

0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:06.240
<v Speaker 2>fate of human beings. They can end lives because they

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 2>have a gun and they believe some noble cause, and

0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:14.680
<v Speaker 2>often enough the cause is just protecting themselves. So you

0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.879
<v Speaker 2>showed up and now you're scared, and you brought a

0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 2>gun and you killed me because you were scared. You

0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't even have to show up, Pam. I called you

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.240
<v Speaker 2>for help, and you came to me and harmed me.

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 1>So that is indicative of the system, especially because it

0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 1>happens so frequently. So again, when I look at just

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of the state of play, there's a person behind

0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.879
<v Speaker 1>this door with a knife, perhaps in the middle of

0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.919
<v Speaker 1>an argument with their mother or whatever situation is happening.

0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.760
<v Speaker 1>If I go in here with my gun out, one

0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.359
<v Speaker 1>person's definitely gonna die. My gun is out, okay, And

0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.879
<v Speaker 1>all these guys with me know that if I go

0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.959
<v Speaker 1>in here, no gun's out, tasers, whatever, there's the potential.

0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.359
<v Speaker 2>That nobody dies. Nobody dies. You know what's interesting, Rams,

0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 2>And we've had this conversation more than any other conversation

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:12.439
<v Speaker 2>on our show about accountability for officers and officer involved shootings,

0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.399
<v Speaker 2>and because there in so many cases, isn't any accountability,

0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:21.680
<v Speaker 2>there's no hesitation to shoot because we're listen, we understand

0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.719
<v Speaker 2>that there have been cases. We're in order to protect

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:29.480
<v Speaker 2>the most people, someone got shot, in order to protect

0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.359
<v Speaker 2>the life of the officer, someone got shot. We're not

0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 2>saying that that never happened. That we talked about those

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:39.120
<v Speaker 2>on That absolutely happens. But the thought press process behind

0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:44.560
<v Speaker 2>taking out this gun to kill changes drastically when on

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.240
<v Speaker 2>the other side of this, I might go to prison.

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Watch this.

0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.959
<v Speaker 1>Let me add to that, right there, Q and I,

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:57.119
<v Speaker 1>we both have a friend who got caught up in

0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.400
<v Speaker 1>a murder case when he was younger. Hear the story

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:08.760
<v Speaker 1>all the time, and it ended up being that he

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.280
<v Speaker 1>was able to prove that it was self defense. But

0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 1>imagine the gravity of taking a life, taking a human's life, like,

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 1>that's got to if you have if you're like saying,

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 1>that's got.

0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.240
<v Speaker 2>To really trouble you have any empathy at all, right, But.

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.320
<v Speaker 1>For normal people, their reality is like, if I do this,

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:32.119
<v Speaker 1>there might be some consequences, And.

0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:34.840
<v Speaker 2>For police, there's most likely going to be some consequences.

0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.199
<v Speaker 2>That was premeditated. He made the choice beforehand.

0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm going to go.

0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:45.240
<v Speaker 2>So what do you do with that? It's heartbreaking because

0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.280
<v Speaker 2>we know this could be avoided. There's just people who

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:54.159
<v Speaker 2>refuse to enact different policies and a different system altogether

0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 2>so that the outcomes don't continue to be this over

0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 2>and over again.

0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me give you some quick game before we

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.360
<v Speaker 1>let you go. The idea of defunding the police will

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 1>certainly free up some money to have different types of

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.720
<v Speaker 1>people respond to calls like that, maybe mental health professionals,

0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.280
<v Speaker 1>maybe people that don't need to end other people's lives.

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Maybe everybody can make it home that day. Sure, bad

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:17.879
<v Speaker 1>people are with us and they always will be. But

0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:19.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe this was a bad person. This is

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.040
<v Speaker 1>a person who was working on mental health and now

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:23.120
<v Speaker 1>we have to live in the world.

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:24.639
<v Speaker 2>I'll say this with a little bit of time that

0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 2>we have left. We would usually dedicate this to having

0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 2>you guys follow us and all that, but listen to this.

0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.760
<v Speaker 2>People who say she threatened to stab him in the neck,

0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 2>go ahead and shoot me either don't know how mental

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.560
<v Speaker 2>health crisis come about or cannot conceive of a loved

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.159
<v Speaker 2>one in a similar situation shot within two seconds of

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.720
<v Speaker 2>yelling drop the knife, which her family says was already dropped.

0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:47.679
<v Speaker 2>Reminds us both of Sonya Massey.

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Be sure to follow us on social media at Civic Cipher,

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm ramses Josh

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:54.359
<v Speaker 2>I am q Ward on all socials as well, and

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:56.359
<v Speaker 2>until next week, y'all, peace, Peace,