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Speaker 1: Podcast starts now. Wow wow wow wow wow, the way

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Speaker 1: that we are not only a bicoastal podcast now we

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Speaker 1: are actually try.

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Speaker 2: Coastal, tricoastal, international global.

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Speaker 1: We've gone global. One.

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Speaker 2: We have the song international Smile by Katie Perry is

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Speaker 2: applicable here.

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Speaker 1: I would say it's never been more applicable in our lives,

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Speaker 1: which is saying something because both of us have traveled before.

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Speaker 3: That's right, multiple times even you know, speaking of songs

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Speaker 3: that exist.

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Speaker 2: Today's a huge day. Sam. Do you want to say, why.

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Speaker 1: Are you really deciding right now to hop into the

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Speaker 1: Taylor's discourse?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, we've always been a proudly we were

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Speaker 3: the pioneers and starting a movement of being neutral about

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Speaker 3: Taylor Swift. And I think for a while, I think

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Speaker 3: I was satisfied being like it is the biggest political

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Speaker 3: statement you can make is never address when her music

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Speaker 3: comes out, never address anything about her never, you know.

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Speaker 3: And and I think silence sometimes is actually more politically

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Speaker 3: impactful than using your voice. And that's something they won't

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Speaker 3: tell you at various you know, Ivylea universities across this

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Speaker 3: great nation. But I think that I somehow today I

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Speaker 3: did feel compelled to speak.

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Speaker 1: So you're speaking out, you're speaking now, as Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: would say.

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Speaker 2: That's right. So here's my thing.

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Speaker 3: I really I am trying to find the right words

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Speaker 3: with which to say this. So much of this podcast,

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Speaker 3: and so much of like our rapport and our sense

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Speaker 3: of humor is like taking things that are meaningless and

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Speaker 3: silly and vapid, and like weaving theories around them and

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Speaker 3: being like, this is why quartersips are straight and button

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Speaker 3: ups are like it. We love talking about things that

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Speaker 3: don't matter. We love something silly, something stupid, something low

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Speaker 3: brow even, And so I would never purport to be

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Speaker 3: some sort of pretentious elitist or something like that. Here's

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Speaker 3: what I'm running into a wall with Taylor Swift. I

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Speaker 3: can't even muster up the energy to do that with her,

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Speaker 3: Like you can't even be playful with it. I don't

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Speaker 3: know how to even interact with it in a in

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Speaker 3: a distanced, ironic way.

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Speaker 2: It's like staring into a black hole.

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Speaker 1: I'm finding myself crippled with silence in like a non

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Speaker 1: activism way. I feel like pel like I have to

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Speaker 1: be silent in like a like it's it's impossible to

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Speaker 1: like your words I feel like, you know how when

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Speaker 1: a famous person does our podcast. Yeah, sometimes they'll take

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Speaker 1: something random and be like and it'll make a headline

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Speaker 1: like blank says blank, and you're like, you took you

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Speaker 1: made news out of a comedy podcast. This makes no sense.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like any conversation, a private conversation I

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Speaker 1: will have about tedday Swift could be taken out of

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Speaker 1: context and made news because everyone is just looking for

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Speaker 1: like who hates her, who loves her? What's the deal?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, everyone stop, Everyone's stopping. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is the neutrality issue again. But I feel like you

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Speaker 1: can't remain on a day like today. I feel like

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Speaker 1: all I can do is like run into the woods

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Speaker 1: and hide.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very folklore of you. I imagine. I have

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Speaker 3: not listened to the album.

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Speaker 1: I mean again, I'm so happy for all of her fans.

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Speaker 1: They are too, the most well fed fans in all

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Speaker 1: of pop music, and that is really amazing, you know,

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Speaker 1: as someone who stands Gaga, of course, I'm alive, but barely.

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Speaker 1: I get a morsel here and there, but I tell myself,

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Speaker 1: I'm emaciated. I'm ready to walk the runways of Milan.

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Speaker 1: Based on how emaciated I am for crying out loud right.

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Speaker 3: Some of my friend was saying that they are like,

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Speaker 3: you know that Kamala thing. Sorry, we can't be talking

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Speaker 3: about online stuff, but you know the Kamala video where

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Speaker 3: she's like my favorite video of all time.

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Speaker 2: My mother used to she would give us a hard

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Speaker 2: time sometimes and she would say to us, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what's wrong with you young people.

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Speaker 1: You think you just fell out of a coconut tree.

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Speaker 2: You exist in the context.

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Speaker 4: Of all in which you live and what came before you.

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Speaker 3: You didn't fall out of a coconut tree. You live

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Speaker 3: in the context of everything around or whatever. My friend

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Speaker 3: was like, you know, Taylor's fans are really the most

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Speaker 3: fell out of a coconut tree fan base around. And

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Speaker 3: I do think that there's something sort of beautiful about

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Speaker 3: that and sort of pure, Like you do. They seem

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Speaker 3: to exist in this childlike state where no music or

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Speaker 3: art has come before or after Taylor Swift. And I

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Speaker 3: was thinking, like, in the same way that you and

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Speaker 3: I wake up every morning read the news, maybe we

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Speaker 3: read some culture news or political news, or maybe we

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Speaker 3: catch up on what's going on in the arts, and

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Speaker 3: then we have a you know, some opinions about it.

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Speaker 3: I think these people only read, they have an app

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Speaker 3: that only shows them what Taylor Swift is doing, and

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Speaker 3: then they have and then that's like what the topic

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Speaker 3: of conversation is that day.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of it, to be honest,

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Speaker 1: like even this, I'm like, it's so easy to be

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Speaker 1: like all Taylor Swift fans are completely ignorant of past, present,

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Speaker 1: and future.

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Speaker 2: Sure, then it's like, but.

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Speaker 1: That's not true, Like there's something even deeper, there's something

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Speaker 1: even more nefarious going on, because they do know what's

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Speaker 1: going on, Like some of these people are smart, some

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Speaker 1: of them like and it's like, what the hell is

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Speaker 1: happening here? And I don't know? And there's a way,

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Speaker 1: you know, when like I almost wish like to be

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Speaker 1: left out of this feeling. It doesn't give me the

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Speaker 1: feeling of eliteness that I would prefer it to give me.

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Speaker 1: It actually just gives me a feeling of lost. I

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Speaker 1: feel like like it's almost like, am I missing out

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Speaker 1: on a human experience? Is liking Taylor Swift a human

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Speaker 1: experience that I am incapable of experiencing? And I don't know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I know, I know what you mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, It's it's sort of like when an election is

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Speaker 3: happening and you see people earnestly, like feel truly like

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Speaker 3: a strong connection to Joe Biden or something, you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess there are no debates this year

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Speaker 3: because who needs them. But you know, in a normal election,

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Speaker 3: you're you know, there's debates, and it's like seeing someone

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Speaker 3: who is earnestly like, let's our guys gonna win. You know,

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Speaker 3: I just really like Team Blue and then and they're

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Speaker 3: like against Team Red and they're so excited about it

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Speaker 3: in a real earnest way and they're so like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's going to make a difference, and you're like, God,

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Speaker 3: if only I could occupy that sort of spirit, I

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Speaker 3: would be so much happier on a day to day basis.

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Speaker 1: I would be so much happier. I I know that.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't do like a lot of work to

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Speaker 1: try to educate myself. If I'm being about about what

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Speaker 1: like I, for all intents and purposes, I should be

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Speaker 1: someone who likes Taylor Slip. It should be someone that

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Speaker 1: is Team Blue over Team Read. I like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been on the last sixty pages of a book

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Speaker 1: that everyone reads seven years ago for six months, I

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Speaker 1: should be like this this person, and like I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to open my eyes, I'm like trying to shut them.

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Speaker 1: And yet I see through it.

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Speaker 2: I see what you're saying. You're saying.

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Speaker 3: It's not even like you are some urban nite, sophistic

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Speaker 3: hit that is always shitting on things that are popular

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Speaker 3: and does not believe in popular art and only goes

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Speaker 3: to the opera. You're saying you want so badly to

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Speaker 3: participate in it, and you are in fact actively trying

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Speaker 3: to read less.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this is like being gay all over again, where

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Speaker 1: it's like I shouldn't this shouldn't be me. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm just a boy from the Midwest.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah it.

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Speaker 3: Being gay was forced upon you against your will, and

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Speaker 3: now being sort of smart has been forced upon you

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Speaker 3: against you will. Despite all your efforts. You're like, stop it,

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Speaker 3: stop it. You're bringing your head against the wall repeatedly.

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Speaker 3: You're trying to say, stop having critical thoughts. But it's impossible.

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Speaker 1: It's impossible. That's literally it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Wow, wow, you know you know what I think would

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Speaker 3: help us with this, with this discussion, bring in our guest,

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Speaker 3: bringing out a cultural critic to give her take.

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Speaker 1: I'll say, George, do the honors.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, we are so excited to welcome to

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Speaker 3: the pod. I have to say we are. We are

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Speaker 3: a little late to this. I'm like, the book came

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Speaker 3: out like over a month ago, but we are so

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Speaker 3: excited to have author of No Judgment and also Fake Counts,

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Speaker 3: which is a novel. I loved Lauren Euler on the

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Speaker 3: podcast Lauren and welcome.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 5: I have a thought, Actually, I thank you for bringing

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Speaker 5: in because I was like, I was raring to go.

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Speaker 6: I was like, I have someone out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know Laurens as someone who sort of

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Speaker 3: has made a career out of tearing down powerful women.

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Speaker 3: I would love to hear your opinion on one, Miss

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Speaker 3: Taylor Swift.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think Sam's issue your feeling of alienation about

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Speaker 5: not understanding what it's like to like to Swift. They

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Speaker 5: don't understand what it's like to not care about Taylor Swift, right,

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Speaker 5: And that's also a rich, beautiful experience that you're having

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Speaker 5: an aesthetic experience, even where you know you're making an effort,

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Speaker 5: you're listening to it, you just it doesn't mean anything

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Speaker 5: to you. That's also an experience that you're having, and

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Speaker 5: I think that that's very valid and you should be

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Speaker 5: ashamed of it. You shouldn't say anything bad about Taylor

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Speaker 5: Swift because my understanding is they will get you. But

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Speaker 5: but besides that, I think that's that's totally fine. But

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Speaker 5: do you think do you think that she in some

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Speaker 5: way produces the experience of believing that she is like

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Speaker 5: she fell out of a coconut You all fell out

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Speaker 5: of a coconut tree.

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Speaker 6: This is all all like the present moment.

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Speaker 5: There is no there's no predecessor, and there's no future

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Speaker 5: as well, right, Like that's part of the appeal. But

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Speaker 5: it's not like hedonistic enjoyment. It's just kind of a

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Speaker 5: high school emotional drama, right Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a big part of it is that

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Speaker 3: I think in order to really fully buy into the narrative,

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Speaker 3: you just have to. I mean, she is in this

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Speaker 3: constant state of like high school big feelings, which I

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Speaker 3: think there's something sort of beautiful about. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, it's much less interesting to release an album

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Speaker 3: that's about like, well, I woke up and I was

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Speaker 3: sort of hung over and then I read half an

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Speaker 3: article and then went on a walk, like, yes, it

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Speaker 3: is obviously like much more interesting to be constantly falling

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Speaker 3: in love and constantly having your heartbroken, but then you

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Speaker 3: also are stuck in this place where all these things

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Speaker 3: are feel like they're happening for the first time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and also that there's they're never going to end, right,

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Speaker 5: like there's no future and for so past. But I

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Speaker 5: think people I don't know, don't people sort of want

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Speaker 5: to live in that place, And indeed, actually I do

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Speaker 5: think that they do. I do think that there are

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Speaker 5: some people who are unbothered by, uh the philosophical is

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Speaker 5: of existence, and they're just kind of like bopping around

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Speaker 5: and so the worst, you know, the the worst thing

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Speaker 5: that happens to them. And it's actually not a it's

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Speaker 5: not so I'm not being sound terrible, but it's not

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Speaker 5: like the worst kind of person to be to be

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Speaker 5: like I was in love with this guy and he

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Speaker 5: ditched me for someone more beautiful. It's it's not it

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Speaker 5: is it does suck, Like it's a really sort of

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Speaker 5: moving experience. Uh, and if you have no like you know, context, right,

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Speaker 5: the context.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's even more moving.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's even more moving. But what's amazing is that

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Speaker 5: people don't sort of have any epiphanies after that, right,

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Speaker 5: Like they just keep doing the same thing over and over,

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Speaker 5: like it doesn't make them stronger.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: There's no connecting of the dots. There are just dots constantly.

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Speaker 1: There's no Kelly Clarkson.

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Speaker 5: There's no Kelly Clarkson. That's Kelly Clarkson, right, What does

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Speaker 5: Kelly makes me stronger? There's none of that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's just.

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Speaker 5: There's there's no Kelly Clarkson American I will never happened.

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Speaker 1: I feel this way. I also sometimes feel this way

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Speaker 1: about comedians. When comedians like keep finding themselves and fucked

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Speaker 1: up situations and like storytelling about the fucked up situation

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Speaker 1: that they got themselves into. I'm sort of like, well,

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Speaker 1: when are you gonna learn to not get into fucked

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Speaker 1: up situations? Like at some point you're seeking out fucked

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Speaker 1: up situations and being dishonest with either me, your audience

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Speaker 1: or you yourself. And I can't tell who you're being

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Speaker 1: dishonest to, but there is a dishonesty going on here.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if there's someone who fell out of a

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Speaker 3: coconut tree at stand up comedians.

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Speaker 5: But you guys are comedians. But what would happen if

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Speaker 5: you stop getting into fuck? I guess you comment on

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Speaker 5: external yes stimuli, right, so you don't need to get

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Speaker 5: a fuck up situation. But I recently sort of developed

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Speaker 5: appreciation for let's say, lived experience, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: a little bit of a fucked up situation is okay.

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Speaker 6: And as long as I conduct myself, as.

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Speaker 5: Long as I win the fucked up situation, like, I'll

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Speaker 5: go you, I'm interested in that.

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Speaker 3: Do you do you feel comfortable to telling us what

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Speaker 3: the fucked up situation was that you're referring to.

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Speaker 5: It's just getting into scrapes romantic, oh, personal drama.

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Speaker 6: I think this relates to what we're going to talk

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Speaker 6: about later. So I don't want to.

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Speaker 5: Give too much. Okay, okay, life, it's like love life,

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Speaker 5: social life, like okay.

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Speaker 1: Sure, sure, sure, I mean I like, I look, I'm

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Speaker 1: not above getting myself into a fucked up situation, but

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Speaker 1: I think I am sort of. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: like when it feels forced. I say, let it happen naturally.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can find you know, even the most

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Speaker 1: normal situation has interesting elements if you let it. It's

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Speaker 1: sort of my my take on it. But but you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's not true. Maybe I should join a cult

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Speaker 1: for a year and then I'll have a big book,

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Speaker 1: a big comedy book.

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Speaker 5: We're not talking about we're not talking about cults. We're

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Speaker 5: not talking about cults. We're just talking about guys. You're

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Speaker 5: going out with that you sure, sure, sure it's going

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Speaker 5: to end badly, Like that's a yeah, you know, there's

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Speaker 5: a dispiriting like like idea that you know, you should

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Speaker 5: avoid the red flags and you should be actualizing and

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Speaker 5: you should live your life in a particular way.

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Speaker 6: And you shouldn't.

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Speaker 5: I don't seek out things, but if they come to

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Speaker 5: you and then you accept.

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Speaker 6: Them, that that's sort of different.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, and it's also like, what are you gonna

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Speaker 3: do not ever seek out big feelings and not evan

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Speaker 3: always be completely like down the line and neutral and

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Speaker 3: never have any big I mean, you're not even gonna

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Speaker 3: get close to the epiphanies if you don't at least

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Speaker 3: attempt some things.

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Speaker 6: And then you're going to get older and you're going

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Speaker 6: to have many regrets.

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Speaker 5: Yes, you're going to be reflecting constantly on all all

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Speaker 5: of the things you could have done and all the

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Speaker 5: loves you lost, and what if you had just gone

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Speaker 5: what if you had just gone to the bar, like

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Speaker 5: when you had said you were you know, okay, you

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Speaker 5: just had.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 1: You're literally convincing me to be Taylor Slift. Coded.

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Speaker 3: I'm literally all in on Taylor Swift. Now, I'm not

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Speaker 3: even kidding. There is something slip this is yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: I know, Oh, it's all about Taylor Slift. I wonder

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Speaker 3: if you know what I think it is also about

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Speaker 3: Taylor Swift. And I have to be honest with myself

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Speaker 3: and call myself in because I feel like there's almost something.

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Speaker 3: Taylor's unable to have any sort of ironic distance and

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Speaker 3: is unable to have like a sense of humor about

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Speaker 3: herself really, and I think my distaste for it comes

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Speaker 3: down to that. But maybe that is on me because

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Speaker 3: I don't have the courage to like enter this fully

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Speaker 3: earnest millieu. And it's like that's because of I have

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Speaker 3: some sort of self like insurmountable self. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: shame or self awareness or something.

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Speaker 5: But do you think that she had It's not ironic,

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Speaker 5: but certainly you have to have distance if you're sort

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Speaker 5: of cultivating a public image, right, she just I mean,

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Speaker 5: everybody has a persona. She surely has her persona. Is

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Speaker 5: that it's just like we find it sort of annoying

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Speaker 5: and boring.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's true. I guess that's true.

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Speaker 6: But maybe she's not annoying and boring. She is. She

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Speaker 6: could just be really good at doing that.

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Speaker 5: But usually my feeling about celebrities, like really truly famous

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Speaker 5: people is that they're all like quite with it, if

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Speaker 5: not intelligent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, I do think, especially these days, it

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Speaker 3: is so genuinely difficult and traumatizing to have any level

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Speaker 3: of fame that if you are getting through that on

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Speaker 3: a day to day basis, you must have a good

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Speaker 3: head on your shoulders in some capacity.

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Speaker 5: Or you have been your good head is like, you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm sure she's crazy in some way because of that.

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Speaker 6: Because of that, but she can handle it, right.

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Speaker 5: The ability to handle it doesn't necessarily indicate a good head.

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Speaker 2: That's true. But but I mean maybe.

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Speaker 5: Abnormal, but that doesn't mean that she's a psycho.

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Speaker 1: Sure, Okay, to what would happen if you did hang

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Speaker 1: out with tail lived and you were like, oh my God,

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Speaker 1: she's actually incredible. I'm such an asshole. How would that feel?

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Speaker 5: It would be great because then I would get to

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Speaker 5: go whatever, sit in the box of whatever fucking sport

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Speaker 5: of things she's gone to for some reason, like dance

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Speaker 5: around with Caara de.

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Speaker 1: Levine and like everyone my childhood dream.

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Speaker 5: Get some free clothes. I think we're probably similar sizes

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Speaker 5: because she's also a tall woman.

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Speaker 2: So I think that, Oh that's true.

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Speaker 6: Great, Uh if I you know, if I genuinely liked her, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility

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Speaker 3: that Taylor. I mean, all these people have sort of

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Speaker 3: a team that picks what books they are photographed with

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Speaker 3: and what tastes they have and whatever. I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's on their own possibility for them to decide. You know,

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Speaker 3: we want Lauren oiler to be part of Taylor's squad

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Speaker 3: for the next album cycle. She's sort of like going

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Speaker 3: into more bookish direction. And I think I do agree

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Speaker 3: with you that you're I mean, I have never met

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Speaker 3: you in person, but I know you're you're saying you're tall.

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Speaker 3: I know Taylor's like you guys would probably look good

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Speaker 3: together in a photograph, like the two of you hanging out.

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Speaker 3: It would be sort of like the rest laughing. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like you with Blake Lively, with Carl Delvine. There's some

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it would be something I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I mean that would be so groundbreaking. That would

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Speaker 1: be sort of her growing up.

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Speaker 5: Also, isn't isn't the sort of idea that she had

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Speaker 5: this brief relationship with that guy from whatever that band is.

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Speaker 2: Matt Yeah whatever, and Mattie Haley.

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Speaker 5: He helps her produce as far as I know, her

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Speaker 5: one kind of interesting song, which is about being the

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Speaker 5: anti hero or whatever. I mean.

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Speaker 6: I think I think that song's.

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Speaker 2: Inter the great song I have for say Sona.

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Speaker 5: The persona that she is speaking from is really interesting,

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Speaker 5: and so, you know, maybe she wants to go a

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Speaker 5: little dark, come hang out in Berlin. I believe, if

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Speaker 5: I recall, I believe she did her tour and she

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Speaker 5: did not come to Oh wow, Oh that could be wrong.

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Speaker 5: Don't quote me on that, but I believe she went

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Speaker 5: to Munich.

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Speaker 2: And Munich I was about to say, yeah, I believe.

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Speaker 5: She did not stop here because she maybe would not

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Speaker 5: have been welcome. I'm sure they could have scrounged up

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Speaker 5: some people.

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Speaker 3: To see her buddy. Yeah, you know, my sister lives

388
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Speaker 3: in Munich, and it is really just sort of like

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Speaker 3: the more basic Berlin like it is everyone. They take

390
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Speaker 3: everyone from Berlin and they're like, take off one eyebrow

391
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,399
Speaker 3: piercing and put on this startup T shirt and you

392
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Speaker 3: can go to.

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Speaker 5: Mune that they're glowing, like they're really creepy. Right, they're

394
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Speaker 5: really really tan, really glowing. They're always like hanging out

395
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Speaker 5: by the river that whatever, and yeah, they're very rich.

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Speaker 3: Well I'll say this and we can close the close

397
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Speaker 3: the book on Taylor Swift. But I'm i you know,

398
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Speaker 3: I started out this whole episode being like my issue

399
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Speaker 3: with Taylor Swift is that I can't even theorize around her.

400
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Speaker 3: And here we are, you know, ten fifteen minutes into

401
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,159
Speaker 3: the episode, and we have thought of some amazing points

402
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 3: we have, you know, sort of like I think brought

403
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 3: into the four some interesting elements of her work. And

404
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna after this, I'm going to listen

405
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Speaker 3: to the album Topped to a Bottom and I'm going

406
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 3: to publish my official rankings of the songs on BuzzFeed

407
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Speaker 3: dot com, So look.

408
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Speaker 2: Out for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think we did a really really

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Speaker 1: balanced discussion, and I think if anyone were to attack

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Speaker 1: us after this, well we would have grounds to put

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Speaker 1: them in prison.

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Speaker 3: I agree, And again, as I always say, I like

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Speaker 3: the album reputation. If anyone wants to come for me,

415
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Speaker 3: just know that that. I often listened to the song Delicate.

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00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even it's really good, you'd like recommend some

417
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 1: reason it's really good. The song mean speaks to me.

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Speaker 6: That's a great sign.

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Speaker 1: It's such a hit. So you know, this has been

420
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: a really really balanced discussion and I think you deserve

421
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Speaker 1: money for that.

422
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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, and shout out to the Tortured Poets Department.

423
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Speaker 2: That's what it's called.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the most it's really if if I were like,

425
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Speaker 3: what is the most grading series of three words you

426
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Speaker 3: could put together, it would be Tortured Poets Department.

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00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: Well, and it's apparently what her exes with a group

428
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Speaker 1: text thread was called. So it's a call of.

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Speaker 5: You said that.

430
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Speaker 1: I don't know. Someone was telling me this. Last night.

431
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Speaker 1: I did a show and I found myself everyone there

432
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,360
Speaker 1: was a huge Sitter Swift fan, and I was sort

433
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Speaker 1: of just like it was that thing where I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm like I found myself an enemy territory, and like

435
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: if I say a word, they'll I'll be drawn and quartered.

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00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: So I need to be silent.

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Speaker 5: You know where I was.

438
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 6: I was in Washington, d C.

439
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 5: And I was on a little book tour, and I

440
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 5: was in mostly close to elite cities or Chicago, the

441
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 5: great American city. But then I was ending in Washington, DC,

442
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 5: and everywhere you went was Taylor Swift. It was some

443
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 5: it was It was also not from any one album.

444
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 5: It was like obviously a Taylor Swift Spotify radio or

445
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 5: even worse, I would assume some someone's personal my favorite

446
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 5: Taylor Swift tracks just non stop.

447
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 6: Every restaurant, every where you were.

448
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 2: D C is very DC is. Actually I would say,

449
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 2: what the city Taylor Swift was made for? Wow?

450
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 5: And I mean from Pennsylvania. I No, Pennsylvania not that

451
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 5: far away from where I'm from. If I'm may, if

452
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 5: I'm ay.

453
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 2: Another reason why you guys hit it off, we.

454
00:21:59,040 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 5: Would hit it off.

455
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: No, DC is a perfect encapsulation of her.

456
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 5: I think.

457
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

458
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 3: So when Sam and I went on tour, you know,

459
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 3: we went to a few cities and our audience, you know,

460
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 3: it's like a sort of mix of I don't know,

461
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 3: sort of like queer and queer presenting people in their

462
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 3: like twenties through forties, okay, and it's like you see

463
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 3: some tattoos, you see some piercings, you see some people

464
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: that are sort of like, you know, work in marketing

465
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 3: but are ashamed of it, and you know they love

466
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 3: listening to comedy podcasts whatever. In DC, every single person

467
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 3: was like in a suit coming from working in the

468
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 3: White House. I've never seen anything like it, like the

469
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: most like respectful you know, applause, laughing exactly three ha

470
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 3: ha has per joke and then completely like composing themselves

471
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 3: well to be fair, Our.

472
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: Show that night was at the US House of Representatives, so.

473
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: True, yeah yeah, And Joe Biden was.

474
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 5: I'm trying to formulate the joke of trying to formulate

475
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 5: the joke of trying to formulate the joke.

476
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 6: What about the senate guy, the twink, the twink, the twink,

477
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 6: the twink, Oh, the twink.

478
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 3: That is that bottomed in the in the Yeah yeah, yeah,

479
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 3: Well see he's the only person that Twink talk about.

480
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: That's the only person that has ever lived out loud

481
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: in the city of Washington, d C. And look how

482
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 3: he was ostracized.

483
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: Not okay, Okay, I love my favorite joke set up

484
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: as I'm trying to formulate, I'm trying to formulate the joke.

485
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: I'm trying to.

486
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 3: Formulate the joke that's literally seventy percent of my life. Okay,

487
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 3: should we do our first segment?

488
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: Sam?

489
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: What do you think that would be such a beautiful idea?

490
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 3: George, We like to do a preliminary first segment with

491
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 3: every guest called straight Shooters, And in this segment, we

492
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 3: ask you a series of rapid fire questions to gauge

493
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 3: your familiarity with and complicity and straight culture. All you

494
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 3: have to do is choose this thing or this other thing.

495
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 3: And the one rule is you can't ask any follow

496
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 3: up questions about how the game works.

497
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: Are you ready? Yeah? Okay, Lauren manifesting a better life

498
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: for beta testing women to be your.

499
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 5: Wife, manifesting a better life, okay, Lauren.

500
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: Putting a playlist on shuffle, or getting your face hit

501
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: in a kerfuffle.

502
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: Shuffle, catching a matinee, or matching with a man who's gay.

503
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 6: Matching with a man is gay.

504
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 5: Well, it's difficult.

505
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 6: I always say, I do like mattinee as well, Okay.

506
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: Lauren carry Bradshaw or Terry Bradshaw.

507
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: Carrie, we tell ourselves stories in order to live. Or

508
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 2: that new song is boring. I wanted it to give

509
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: the new song is boring.

510
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 6: I wanted it to give.

511
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: Okay, full transparency or hair transplant for.

512
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 6: Me, full transparency. These are too easy. I listened to

513
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 6: you with what's the director just now? You gave her

514
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 6: much better?

515
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: Oh wow? Well, you know you're catching us on a Friday,

516
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 3: and it's Taylor Swift Day. So we've wereen really busy

517
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: all day. Okay, the critics in the hot the critic

518
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 3: critic has entered the chat. Y'all okay, the this itch

519
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: won't go away, or this bitch is good at ballet.

520
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: This bitch is good at ballet, okay, Toblarne or hold

521
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: the phone, hold the phone, wow wow Okay.

522
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: So we rank each guest performance on a scale of

523
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: zero to one thousand doves. I would say, you know,

524
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 3: I would say generally I would go in a sort

525
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 3: of like seven hundred to eight hundred direction, But because

526
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: of your bold criticism of us, I think that actually

527
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: elevates you to a nine p fifty, a clean nine fifty.

528
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 2: What do you think, Sam?

529
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: I one hundred percent agree.

530
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: We haven't been put in our place like that in

531
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 3: a while, and it really actually felt correct.

532
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: You know, I actually do have to, I mean a

533
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: guess to like really be like, no, this isn't good enough.

534
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: It's so refreshing, it's so good. I do feel that generally, George,

535
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel. I do feel like

536
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: we are somewhat in our backlash era.

537
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 5: Are you experiencing blacklash or we are experiencing backlash?

538
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 2: Sam? Should we talk about the specifics of the backlash?

539
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 2: Do you think I would?

540
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: Actually, I'm not opposed to it.

541
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: So, Lauren, we had American comedian Kathy Griffin on the podcast,

542
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: and she told, you know, listen, I as a sort

543
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 3: of basic gay teen. I loved Kathy Griffin. I was,

544
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 3: you know, she was appealing to stupid little gay guys

545
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 3: that like pop culture.

546
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: That was me, I was. I was all in to me.

547
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: She's always been a white whale. I've always been like,

548
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: it would be so fun to have her on the podcast.

549
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 3: How funny for the two of us to be talking

550
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 3: to Kathy Griffin. So she did the podcast. I thought

551
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: she was very funny. At some point out of nowhere,

552
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 3: she went on a full sort of I would say

553
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: rant about how we need to vote blue no matter who,

554
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: and that if we don't, then potentially we as gay

555
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 3: guys would lose our rights. And the problem there, I

556
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 3: think is twofold. A you know, the idea of voting

557
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 3: blue no matter who, you know, amid everything happening in

558
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: the world right now, amid Joe Biden sending billions of

559
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 3: dollars to a military aid to Israel is a complicated

560
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: a complicated statement, to say the least. Second being her

561
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 3: sort of implication that as two gay men, the only

562
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 3: thing we would care about is like gay marriage being

563
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: repealed and not you know, innocent people being murdered.

564
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, fair, all fair.

565
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: So then we, you know, we do not know this

566
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: woman at all. Like her doing this podcast was like

567
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: exciting for us because we're like, this is like an icon,

568
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: Kathy Grip, and so she and we respect her, you

569
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: respect her, and so we were like, okay, like it

570
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: was sort of like, let's just try to move on.

571
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: And people were like, but why don't.

572
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 6: You guys edit? So that's all the other podcasts edit?

573
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: I kind of well, I felt like it was so

574
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: that was Sam's and sorry Sam.

575
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: Sam wanted to cut the rent and I was sort

576
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 3: of like, I find it maybe I have such a

577
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 3: like joker sense of humor. To me, it's literally so

578
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 3: funny and I and I'm sorry to make light of it,

579
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: but it's so funny to me for the two of us,

580
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 3: two gay guys that literally like we we literally had

581
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: an episode where the topic, the straight topic was voting,

582
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 3: like we have we so we've made jokes about this

583
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 3: sort of like vote blue no matter who sentiment before.

584
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 3: Everyone knows our politics, everyone knows their sense of humor.

585
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: To me, it's so funny to have Kathy Griffin, like iconic,

586
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 3: you know, sixty three year old celebrity, you know, yelling

587
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: at us to vote blue no matter who. And I,

588
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 3: to me, I was like, our audience is with us.

589
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 3: They will also find it really funny.

590
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 5: From this journalism kind of like you're giving her, you're

591
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 5: you know, you're interviewing her that you know, letting her

592
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 5: hang herself or whatever. Like, yes, that's like the you know,

593
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 5: if you if you were The New York Times, you

594
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 5: would publish that as well. But unfortunately you're the victims

595
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 5: of homophobia exactly, and you just aren't given, like allowed

596
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 5: the same standards.

597
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and I really true, I George, I

598
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: think it's so beautiful that you respected our audience that much.

599
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: I was like, this is a little bit too high

600
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: level of a joke.

601
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: You just don't want to Yeah, you just like don't

602
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: want to do it. Okay, I mean I get it,

603
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 3: and listen, But also.

604
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 6: What do you expect from her?

605
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: Didn't you do that?

606
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 5: What was the weird thing she did with like the

607
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 5: Trump head?

608
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: That's no way like what but that's what.

609
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: So that was a big part of it is she

610
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: was saying, like, you know, she she took she did

611
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: this photo shoe where she was holding Trump's head, and

612
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: because of that, she lost like basically six years of work.

613
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: She was like put on government lists.

614
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: I mean, she was explaining all of this to us,

615
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 3: and Okay, yes, I understand that if with no context,

616
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: you're like, why is this lady you know, yelling at

617
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 3: my two favorite podcasters?

618
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: But I don't know.

619
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: I was like, how fun, Like she was in the

620
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: center of everything. She literally couldn't work for six years

621
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 3: because of a photo shoot she did where she held

622
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 3: Trump's bloody head like that is funn I knew.

623
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I you can just I you know, Lauren,

624
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: sometimes I have toxic levels of empathy. And I could

625
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: just feel our listeners listening to it, Like when I

626
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: was listening to it and I was like, they're going

627
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: to be mad at this, and it was like I

628
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: was hoping I was wrong, and I was hoping that

629
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: George's joker level humor would shine through. But I just

630
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: so we've sort of been dealing with people being like

631
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: so mad at us for like the last two weeks.

632
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: In a way it's like like is it's like, so,

633
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: I'm struggling with it, But.

634
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 6: Don't you feel like it's a bit fake? It's it's

635
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 6: they're going through the motions a bit.

636
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 5: I do feel like in the last couple of months

637
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 5: there has been a resurgence of people trying to make.

638
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 6: Twitter politics happen again.

639
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

640
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're trying.

641
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 5: They're like, look, we're really mad, this is going to

642
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 5: destroy our society, and like I'm gonna yell at you

643
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 5: and I'm going to cyber bully you, and it's kind

644
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 5: of like you got it's a little bit sweet, No, Like.

645
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: No, I know what I mean. There is something about

646
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: it that.

647
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 5: They lack a new impetuous for like talk like being

648
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 5: in public, and so so they're like latching on to

649
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 5: like twenty twenty whatever stupid.

650
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: This is exactly it talk about Taylor Swift fall out

651
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: of a coconut tree, the yelling. I'm sort of like,

652
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: didn't we do we did this, and we like saw

653
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: how stupid we all looked, and and we've like fully

654
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: unpacked how silly that like we all looked.

655
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: No, it's really true when I think about something confusing.

656
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 6: They were trying to cancel me for being a bad writer.

657
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: I didn't even Lauren.

658
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 5: They were trying to cant listen.

659
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: You brought it up, not what happened, But.

660
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 5: I'm just like I had.

661
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 6: Everybody online was going insane about what.

662
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: Well, you know, Lauren, they called you. They were not

663
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: an adler of looking at your phone a lot.

664
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 3: That's not even bad.

665
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: I don't think that's bad.

666
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 6: About looking at your phone.

667
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good thing to be.

668
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: Why would that's literally like everyone looks at their phone

669
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: a lot. What I mean, I guess would you rather

670
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 3: be Elizabeth hardway of? I don't know, writing listicles for

671
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: BuzzFeed dot Com I don't know.

672
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not what I'm like, you guys are making.

673
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know, it was really I was really

674
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 5: it was really like people were trying to bring us

675
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 5: back to twenty sixty.

676
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

677
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's of course there's a certain there's

678
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: a certain beauty to it, of course because uh, you know,

679
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: as a longtime reader of yours, you you were one

680
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: of the voices that was publishing sort of similar pieces

681
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: at that time.

682
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: But do you is there a part of you that's

683
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: like a.

684
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 6: Math error in my pieces? George?

685
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: What is the math there?

686
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 5: I believe there was an arithmetic error in the book

687
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 5: Forum article about me, among other among other fact checking

688
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 5: foibles that they had there.

689
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: That is interesting, okay, no, yeah, yeah.

690
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course obviously, but also that I guess my

691
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 5: feeling is like, oh I wish I'd had my period

692
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 5: of un earned unanimous praise and like money, you know

693
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 5: what I mean?

694
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 6: Like, you know, when I did it, I was like,

695
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 6: this person is is really famous.

696
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying.

697
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 5: Well, and they had never had a negative review. I'm like,

698
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 5: I have been getting this internection. I'm like, you guys, like,

699
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 5: you're making me feel bad. I was doing this since

700
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 5: I was twenty four years old. I wrote a takedown

701
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 5: of Rock sand Gig. Do you think you're gonna.

702
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: Make me like episodes? Okay?

703
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: So Lauren, in your ideal world, I feel like, So,

704
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 3: do you think you should have this book that you

705
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 3: just published no judgment?

706
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 2: Okay?

707
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: You think this should have had sort of all positive

708
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: reviews so that then someone a spunky, young twenty four

709
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 3: year old writer could come, you know, for your next

710
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 3: book and really take you down.

711
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 6: That would be I mean good for them.

712
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

713
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 6: Do I think that it should have been that way?

714
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't like to engage in counterfactuals.

715
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 5: Okay, but my feeling is like this again, google it,

716
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? Like google it.

717
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 6: Of course I'm not like upset about like do whatever

718
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 6: you want.

719
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: No, you don't seem upset at all.

720
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 5: It's funny.

721
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: It's funny speaking of our backlash era.

722
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: Yes, speaking of our backlash air.

723
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 1: Could we get into our topic.

724
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 3: Let's in our topic, because talk about something that's going

725
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: to have a backlash, I mean not.

726
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: I really feel like we are like to be completely or.

727
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: Being a little reputation era right now, it's so.

728
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: Reputation era in a way that I'm not sure. I mean,

729
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I hope we have a delegate

730
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: on this episode. Yes, yes, yes, but the backlash era,

731
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: I'm not emotionally good at dealing with it. Like I

732
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: get very obsessed with like what people are saying about you. Yeah, yeah,

733
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: and it like is not chill. And but maybe this

734
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: is exposure therapy. And I hope my reputation era is

735
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: strong and you know, talking about Taylor Swift and now

736
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: our topic, I'm sure I've got to get my armor on, girls,

737
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: I've got to be stronger than ever before.

738
00:34:59,080 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 2: I think it's.

739
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 6: Important to hear your opinions about this.

740
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important to not we can't suddenly

741
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 3: like for the rest of time only be talking about

742
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 3: things we you know, read online. But I think it's

743
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: okay to be like this is contained, you know, for

744
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: this episode, in this conversation. We want to we want

745
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 3: to really just like here's what happened, here's how we feel,

746
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 3: and then we can we can move on perfect. So anyway, Lauren,

747
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: what is the straight topic you've brought with you today

748
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 3: and what do you think makes it straight.

749
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 5: I have brought with me several boyfriends because we are

750
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 5: talking about polyamory.

751
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 2: Wow.

752
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: Wow wow wow wow.

753
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 5: Now it's a bit contentious to say this is straight. Obviously,

754
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 5: the quias, as they might say in Boston, the location

755
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 5: of the most recent polyamory narrative that we were treated

756
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 5: to on the intern. Yes, uh would say the queers

757
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 5: pioneered this practice as we're response to various oppressive forces

758
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 5: in our society. But like all things that you guys pioneer,

759
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 5: we take them and ruin them. So that's what we're

760
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 5: talking about today.

761
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: Wow.

762
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 6: And why is it straight?

763
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

764
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 5: Because a bunch of dorks have made it an identity

765
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 5: on the internet in order.

766
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: To score points. I see.

767
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: So it's become like a competitive it's become something that,

768
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 3: like forcibly makes you interesting when not much else is there.

769
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 5: Let's say yes, and I think to the sort of

770
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 5: discourse polyamory that I think we're going to discuss is

771
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 5: very managerial.

772
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: No, okay, wait, I do I do agree that his

773
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: manager I mean again, the most sort of like, I think,

774
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 3: the most compelling argument against this the kind of the

775
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 3: kind of only twenty four straight coded polyamory that we

776
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 3: read about in the pages of the New York Times

777
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: of the Atlantic. Is that it is like people that

778
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: are it's it's this way to basically like put romantic

779
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 3: love into spreadsheets and live with eight people and have

780
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: like schedules of when you are in bed with whom.

781
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so it's sort of yeah, well, I also think, sorry,

782
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 6: I did mean to interrupt you.

783
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 2: Please.

784
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 5: I also think there is a way that it is

785
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 5: trying to put like the normal emotions of monogamy. So

786
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 5: you know, you want to cheat on your husband of

787
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 5: fifteen years, it's total, it is it's a sort of

788
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 5: logic based it's like a logic and reason based calculus

789
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 5: about how you're going to live your romantic life, right,

790
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 5: so you know you're not gonna it's it's true, you're

791
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 5: not going to sleep with the same person for the

792
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 5: rest for the rest of your life that you met

793
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 5: when you were twenty seven.

794
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 6: If we may use like a sort of straight, a

795
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 6: straight timeline, You're just not going to do that.

796
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 5: But I think in the last ten or fifteen years,

797
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 5: there has been a real emphasis on being a good person.

798
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 5: You know, you can't you know, anti red flag, you know,

799
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 5: living healthy, like manifesting your best life kind of thing,

800
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 5: which means you can't have an affair, right, you can't

801
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 5: dump your husband because you need to be living with

802
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 5: your husband forever.

803
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 6: So you have to sort of do this kind of

804
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 6: rules based thing ethically and m or whatever.

805
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 5: And then you just keep legislating, is my experience and

806
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 5: understanding like that, You just keep another a new situation arises,

807
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 5: and then you must create more rules, and then a

808
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 5: new situation arise, and you create more rules because there

809
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 5: is a resistance.

810
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 3: So it's a less intuitive. Yeah, it's a less like

811
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: intuitive embodied existence. And it's a more like we are

812
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: calling meetings to modify the Bill of Rights every you know,

813
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 3: two days or whatever, and we're having house meetings and

814
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 3: it is by consensus and we are voting. It's basically,

815
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,479
Speaker 3: what if relationships we're voting.

816
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 6: What if relationships were voting. We're having a caucus.

817
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 2: We're having a caucus. Yes, yeah, that's good, I get it.

818
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: No no joke formulation necessary. That's when I was ready

819
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: to go.

820
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 2: Lauren.

821
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: So you said, bringing multiple boyfriends to the conversation, do

822
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 1: you participate in polyamory or are just a viewer?

823
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 5: I resist the terms and I don't. Well, I talk

824
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 5: about it now, I guess I do talk about it.

825
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 5: If the man I am dating tries to use a term,

826
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 5: I throw a fit and yeah.

827
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 6: It immediately.

828
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 5: But but I am an open relationship. If you have

829
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 5: read some of my work, this would not be a

830
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 5: surprise to you.

831
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 2: Well, I did want to ask, you know, and thank

832
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: you for a team. You're right up for it.

833
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 3: I remember I first thought, okay, we got to get

834
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 3: her on years or not years, but months before your book,

835
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: your latest book was released, when I read your essay

836
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 3: and Harper is about going on the Goop Cruise, which

837
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: was an incredibly fun read, and you sort of off

838
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 3: handedly were like, well, I had two boyfriends, one was

839
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 3: straight and one was gay. So obviously I'm going to

840
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: bring the gay boyfriend to the cruise because he has

841
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: a sense of irony, which first of all perfect, you know,

842
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: perfect way to put that, but also sort of an

843
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: iconic thing to mention and then never go back to

844
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: just a straight woman being like anyway, So my gay

845
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: boyfriend has a sense of irony, so I'm going to

846
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: bring him to the Goop cruise. Is everyone on board great?

847
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 3: So basically we get there and it is random sauce.

848
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: So I want to know sort of. I mean, I

849
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 3: do think it's funny that I don't know, Like I

850
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: think the idea is that we're supposed to be like

851
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 3: Lauren is known for her literary takedowns, when in fact,

852
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 3: you should be known for calling your boyfriend gay on

853
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 3: the cover story for Harper's.

854
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: Calling you gay.

855
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 6: Gay, he's gay. He's probably so gay up.

856
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 5: Like we were saying earlier, I don't shy away from

857
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 5: getting into a little bit of a scrape. And I

858
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 5: don't know if we've mentioned this, but I live in Berlin,

859
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 5: the hot bed of sexual freedom, and.

860
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: He didn't thought that was Boston.

861
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 5: And now, yeah, this was a couple of years ago.

862
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 5: We sort of paved the way for the Boston polycule

863
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 5: that was featured in the New York Times this week.

864
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 5: I think that in Berlin, especially in sort of expat

865
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 5: like writer, artists, academic, intellectual party people mill you than

866
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 5: I am, a part of the queer politics sort of

867
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 5: did like a there was like no more queer to go, right,

868
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 5: So so they had the gay guys in particular sort

869
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 5: of had to turn around because they reached the end

870
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 5: of the line and they're like.

871
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 6: What else can we do?

872
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: This is literally perfect. Yeah, Sam and I talk about

873
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: this all the time.

874
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: Sam and I talk about this all the time that

875
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 3: there's like people are so liberated, and specifically gay guys

876
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 3: are so liberated that really the only other way to

877
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 3: go is to go full horseshoe theory and date a woman.

878
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 3: And we were saying in a previous episode, the most

879
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: radical thing for us to do, and I'm not even

880
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: talking about like a woman, maybe a sort of more

881
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 3: masculine presenting woman or someone who is gender nonconforming, I

882
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 3: think the most radical thing Sam and I could do

883
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: was date Sydney Sweeney. Like it just go truly like

884
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: date like the most porny, like straight man's fantasy of

885
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 3: what a woman is.

886
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

887
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so it's honestly really inspiring that that's already

888
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: happening in Berlin.

889
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 6: What you say, I'm on the level of Sidney Sweeney,

890
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 6: Thanks very much.

891
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 3: I think you would look at that well, as we've

892
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 3: already discussed, you're more of a Taylor Swift, but I

893
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: think you're certainly on the spectrum.

894
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: No.

895
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 5: When I was doing this, a couple of my friends

896
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 5: were like, but Laura, in your queer and I was like,

897
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 5: what are you talking about? And they were like, you

898
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 5: wear baggy pants. And I was like, what do you

899
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 5: mean I wear bagging pants and they were like, you

900
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 5: wear bag of pants. You have two boyfriends. Your boyfriends gay.

901
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 5: I was like, maybe you could say I'm in a

902
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 5: queer relationship. I see, but I'm not going to go

903
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 5: around saying I'm a queer woman, which means something else,

904
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 5: and I'm obviously not. And if a man had two girlfriends,

905
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 5: you would not call him queer. You would be like,

906
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 5: my guy's doing.

907
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: A great job.

908
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 1: Well he might call himself queer.

909
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, but these days, Yeah, my former gay werfriend did

910
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 5: not fall out of the coconut tree.

911
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 6: He is a part of the context of everything that

912
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 6: came for me.

913
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 5: So so you know, this is kind of like I'm

914
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 5: not aware that this is happening, but I have since

915
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 5: done some sociological investigations and indeed, like I was like

916
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 5: in a spin class and I like met a friend

917
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 5: of a friend and this guy was sort of like

918
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 5: talking to me about something and I said, oh, you know,

919
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 5: like I like I had this gay boyfriend, and he

920
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 5: was like.

921
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 6: I'm a gay guy and I have a girlfriend and

922
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 6: I was like, what what?

923
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 5: I never met another one, so so it was sort

924
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 5: of common and I think, uh, it would be serious

925
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 5: for a moment.

926
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 6: The gay Uh, I don't know how it described this.

927
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 5: Let's say the gay sex culture in Berlin is somewhat

928
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 5: abusive and I and alienating is my understanding.

929
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 6: And I think many people have figured.

930
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 5: Out ways to deal with that, maybe like there's no

931
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 5: boyfriend for me here. They're all horrible and like be yes, yeah,

932
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 5: and and you.

933
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 6: Know the related Historically the relationship between straight women and

934
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 6: gay and has been quite strong.

935
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 5: Sure, and now if you have a sort of open

936
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 5: sex culture where you can like you know, nobody's like

937
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 5: expecting you to do missionary or whatever, like you can do.

938
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 6: Also, you know, it's not so unusual or strange.

939
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, I mean it's funny.

940
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 5: You know.

941
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 3: What you're describing is it's like a sort of a

942
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: woman that has always identified as straight later in life

943
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 3: being like, you know what, men suck, and then she

944
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 3: starts dating a woman. You're describing that but for a

945
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: gig guy, which I think is so new and radical,

946
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: like a gay guy literally being like ladies, men suck

947
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 3: and then go and then going and dating.

948
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and the and the and the ladies are

949
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 5: like they do suck, and you can kind of like

950
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 5: bond about that in a way that is initially quite excited,

951
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 5: and then you realize like, oh, you're also a man though, Yeah,

952
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 5: which side are you on?

953
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 3: Uh?

954
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: And so so so it it.

955
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 5: It does have let's say, radical potential, or it feels

956
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 5: that way and not unprecedented, but.

957
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 6: It's interesting, it's interesting.

958
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

959
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 5: But the reason I did it, you know, anyway, the

960
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 5: craft portion of this conversation is like, yeah, I dropped

961
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 5: that information in because it's not super relevant to the

962
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 5: ostensible topic of my piece, but uh, it is the

963
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 5: funniest way to do it.

964
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

965
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.

966
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 3: So I have a question in terms of the straightness

967
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 3: of polyamory, like, do do we feel like if there

968
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 3: are two, broadly speaking, two types of polyamory that are

969
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: representing the media, I would say one of them is

970
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 3: a sort of like democratized polycule and the other one

971
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 3: is like, I'm in an open relationship with a primary

972
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 3: partner and i am a quote unquote allowed to have

973
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 3: other flings. Which of those would you say is straighter?

974
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 3: And which of them would you say is gayer.

975
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 5: The polycule is straighter, and the open sort of agree.

976
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 5: I feel Flings is gayer, for sure.

977
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 3: I agree, even though in theory you would think that

978
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 3: the polycule is more queer because it's so communal and

979
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 3: it's so like Copenhagen.

980
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's all like I don't want to be

981
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 5: I think, like I don't really want to be around

982
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 5: like somewhat like annoying people that you're going out with

983
00:46:58,560 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 5: for some reason.

984
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, because you know what it is.

985
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 3: You're not actually in a commune. You're in a startup

986
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 3: like you are, that is what it's. You are in

987
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 3: a we work and you have you are sharing a

988
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 3: shared desk, you are in a pod with other people

989
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 3: that are on their MacBooks.

990
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the group chat thaying the shared calendar and

991
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 5: the weird denial of reality. I don't think like denying

992
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 5: reality is particularly gay, right, Like I think I.

993
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 3: Don't know, sure, sure, well, I think no, this is

994
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 3: an interesting point because I'm on the one hand, like I.

995
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 6: Don't really know if this is true, but I think

996
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 6: this is a fruitful topic of conversation.

997
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is. Denying This is actually great. Well, okay,

998
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 3: this is a great questionly.

999
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: A rich tradition for queer people to deny reality like

1000
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: that is like I'm living my fantasy blah blah blah

1001
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: blah blah, Like I I'm not rich, but I feel

1002
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: rich and that's enough.

1003
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 3: And you know, so, just the idea of performance, like

1004
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 3: the idea that we are at all times performing, the

1005
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: idea that all the world's a stage, all of that

1006
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 3: is very much like denying basic.

1007
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: Famous LGBTQ icon Shakespeare said that exactly.

1008
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 5: But is it not creating reality?

1009
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: I don't.

1010
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 5: I don't understand this distinction between the performance and reality.

1011
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 5: I don't think that there is necessarily a legitimate distinction, right, Like,

1012
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 5: if you spend half your time performing, that's who you

1013
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 5: are and it's your life.

1014
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: And of course that's the real meaning of performativity, is

1015
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 3: that it's for something to be a performance.

1016
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that it's fake. It just means that it

1017
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: is being performed and thus being made.

1018
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, but I don't think that the straight polycule,

1019
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 5: sorry that they would be a queer polycule, because yes,

1020
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 5: some queer relationships happening in there.

1021
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 6: That is not performing, And maybe it's just that the

1022
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 6: performance is bad.

1023
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: M's a yeah, you're in a black box theater. It's

1024
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 3: your friends, it's your friend's friend. You're going there to

1025
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 3: support and at the end you're like, well, you know

1026
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 3: they work together really well.

1027
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're like, well, is the thing where it's like

1028
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 6: living their dream?

1029
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: You know, it took a lot of emails to get here,

1030
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: Like you have to admit this was like many people

1031
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: were called in and organizationally, this was difficult. Other than that,

1032
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: is it inspired? I'm not sure.

1033
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that Okay, So then I think

1034
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 3: that if we're going back to denying reality, I think

1035
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 3: if you were to argue that denying reality is straight,

1036
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 3: and not to get political, but like the idea of

1037
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 3: straight denial of reality is sort of like denying, for example,

1038
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: denying that inequality exists, denying that there are problems in

1039
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 3: the world, and going about your day. That is a

1040
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 3: straight version of denying reality. It's not like putting on

1041
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 3: a fun outfit. It's being like it's being like I'm composting.

1042
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, now I guess you paid.

1043
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 5: Sort of let's historicize this, so you could say that

1044
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 5: straight monogamy was denying reality like this like fake like

1045
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 5: idea that you were going to like possess each other

1046
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 5: for all time, and you would never never step out

1047
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 5: or or whatever. You would never want to the extent

1048
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 5: that it would ruin your life to do something besides monogamy.

1049
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 5: Now they've sort of pendulum swing too far in the

1050
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 5: other direction, which is like, I'm going to deny the

1051
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 5: fact that this is deeply weird and fucked up that

1052
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 5: I'm in an eight person polycula and I hate these people.

1053
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 5: And I watch my primary partner who I'm in love with,

1054
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 5: like have sex with some other person and they text

1055
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 5: me afterwards and they're like, oh, well, got cream pie

1056
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 5: or whatever they do, and like like this thing is

1057
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 5: accasy stup and porn like like de sexualized porn language

1058
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 5: that they And it's also sort of denying reality because they're.

1059
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 6: Like, I went to therapy for several you know, I

1060
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 6: don't have a problem with that.

1061
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 5: I'm really happy for her actually, And I think among

1062
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 5: many poly people there is a sort of like people

1063
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 5: they feel distraught that they're jealous or they're di straw

1064
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 5: that they have, like they don't like that their primary

1065
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 5: partner is falling in love with someone else.

1066
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're like I need to get rid of this

1067
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 6: because it isn't enlightened.

1068
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 5: It isn't you know, it's like patriarchal or whatever like

1069
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 5: blah blah blah blah blah. And you're like, no, that's

1070
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 5: a very obviously that's how you feel, and that doesn't

1071
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 5: mean you need to act on it such that you

1072
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 5: like ruin your life, but like you shouldn't, you know,

1073
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 5: deny the fact that you're obviously jealous about that, right?

1074
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1075
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 3: So maybe what's what like compulsory heteromonogamy and you know,

1076
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: hedonistic queer polycules have in common is that they aspire

1077
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 3: to this sort of like simplified happiness. Like it's like

1078
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 3: in the same way that you watch you know, Far

1079
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 3: from Heaven or something, and it is this like fifties

1080
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 3: version of a happy household and everyone has to conform

1081
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 3: in a weird like fun house mirror way. The polycule

1082
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: article is people every day waking up and looking in

1083
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 3: the mirror and being like, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy,

1084
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 3: Like this is exactly I finally found a way to

1085
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 3: be happy. And maybe the way out of both of

1086
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,240
Speaker 3: those things is to sort of like accept that any

1087
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 3: given time you can feel a variety of feeling and

1088
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 3: you can feel jealousy and you can feel bitterness, and

1089
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 3: that is all part of a healthy relationship.

1090
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you do is it healthy to discuss it all?

1091
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 5: Like we can questions about the processing element, which does

1092
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 5: also come from like like queer like Berkeley culture.

1093
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 6: But Sam was gonna make a point first, Well.

1094
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: I guess I was going to ask a different question, George.

1095
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: You made the joke earlier about like it's very tech

1096
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: startup but honestly, and maybe it's just aeographic. There is

1097
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: a link between straight poly and people that work in tech. Yes,

1098
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: and like totally I want to understand why. Well, it's

1099
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: burning man. It's literally like literally burning man.

1100
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 3: It's it's like it's you know, sort of like commodified

1101
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 3: club culture, commodified like back to nature ideology.

1102
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: It is like whole Earth catalog.

1103
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: It is you know, people sort of like efficiency culture too.

1104
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: It's like being like I can do this perfectly, Like

1105
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: I've all my wants can be met and they can

1106
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 1: be met on time and like and I'll reach like

1107
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: a higher plane of productivity.

1108
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'll get all of the bad unproductive emotions

1109
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 5: out by like working through this.

1110
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 6: But it's also about an investment mindset.

1111
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 5: Which is like, if I can only get over these

1112
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 5: hang ups I have, then I will achieve sexual emotional

1113
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 5: nirvana and I can continue to be productive like in

1114
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 5: my like work life. Or I can retire early because

1115
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 5: they also want to retire early and become millionaires, right,

1116
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 5: so we can retire early in our pollyhouse and blah

1117
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 5: blah blah blah blah.

1118
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: I've I've got it. Okay, this is the reality thing.

1119
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: You're not trying to ignore reality. You're trying to escape reality.

1120
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: You think there's a way to get out if you

1121
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: can just do everything right, But the truth is there's

1122
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 1: no escaping, and so it's better to like, yeah, get

1123
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: used to feeling jealous, get used to being late, get

1124
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: used to being unproductive some days and productive other days.

1125
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 3: I mean, are we being so like pull yourself up

1126
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 3: from your by your bootstraps? Like I'm like, are we

1127
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 3: now suddenly being conservative and telling people that are not

1128
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: allowed to imagine new ways of of being with one another?

1129
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 1: I just mean I don't even mean don't be Polly.

1130
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean, like, don't be Polly as an excuse, like

1131
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: as an escape from like what is reality? Like, don't

1132
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 1: be Polly as an escape from unproductivity or or lack

1133
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: of or don't be Polly as an escape of jealousy

1134
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: and whatever.

1135
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, what it means to like be a human in

1136
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 5: the world. Like you can't like hack your way out

1137
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 5: of it. But can I ask you, guys?

1138
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 6: What are your uh uh?

1139
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 5: What are your orientation?

1140
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 6: What are your what are your uh?

1141
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 4: We're both gay, you're gay, We're both in open relationship,

1142
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 4: we're opistas, we're both in I would say long term

1143
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 4: open relationships.

1144
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: But it's yeah, and like the question of like a

1145
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: third you know, is sort of like I feel like

1146
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: there's so many gay couples that like start open and

1147
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 1: whatever and then like suddenly it's like and that's our boyfriend,

1148
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: and I'm sort of like, yeah, go off, queen. There's

1149
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: a difference to where it's not like and I am

1150
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: Polly and I have been and it's just sort of

1151
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 1: like there's a like, yeah, we are dating and now

1152
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: we're dating him too, and in a way that I appreciate,

1153
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: which is like the casualness and maybe, like queer people,

1154
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: maybe that's a privilege of being gay, is that you

1155
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 1: get to be more casual about it, whereas if you're

1156
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: like straight, you don't get too.

1157
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 3: I do think that's a big part of it, is, like,

1158
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 3: and it sort of sucks that for these for the

1159
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 3: poly New York Times people, that they become these punchlines

1160
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 3: when in fact they are just trying to have a

1161
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 3: certain level of freedom that perhaps if you are already queer,

1162
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 3: and if you are you know, if you are already

1163
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 3: embedded in communities where like different romantic practices are at play,

1164
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: you don't feel the need to constantly justify your actions

1165
00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 3: and put them in a sort of moral framework.

1166
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 5: And I think too, if polyseoth in particular, there is

1167
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 5: a kind of evangelical approach or an evangelical impulse that

1168
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 5: these people have, because especially poly stuff, you know, you

1169
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 5: need more people to do it so that you can

1170
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 5: fuck more people, right, Like, it's actually a sort of

1171
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 5: it's a sort of like very like it's an ls Yeah,

1172
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 5: it's an MLM. So you need people to participate in

1173
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 5: it because first of all, you don't want people to

1174
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 5: be like, you're a freak, get away from me.

1175
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 6: And also you don't want people to you know, you

1176
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 6: want more people who.

1177
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 5: Are like kind of interested in it so that you

1178
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 5: can like have relationships with them in the way that

1179
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 5: you want to, because it is it can be alienating.

1180
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 6: I don't find a particularly aliening. Yeah.

1181
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 5: I was just gonna make a joke, which is that

1182
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 5: if you were to, as two gay guys pick up

1183
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 5: a third who was a woman, I do believe it

1184
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 5: would not be casual and you would indeed.

1185
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 6: Have all sorts of issues experience talking about it.

1186
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, but there is also another part of it that

1187
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 5: is interesting to me, which is the talking and the

1188
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 5: intimacy that that creates. And I think maybe some of

1189
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 5: it is about like wanting more intimacy, wanting to know

1190
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 5: people deeper, and wanting to know about your partner things

1191
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 5: that would ordinarily be kept private. Right, So if I

1192
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 5: have I'm having like a really huge crush on somebody,

1193
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 5: and then I talk to my boyfriend about it, which

1194
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 5: is not to say I do that. I don't really

1195
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 5: do that. But if I do that, then he kind

1196
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 5: of like has one over on the crush because he,

1197
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 5: you know, we have a relationship and he sort of

1198
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 5: talks to me about things that I can't talk to

1199
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 5: that guy thought, Yeah, So the talking element I think

1200
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 5: is sort of underrepresented, and the like let's make fun

1201
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 5: of the poly people online because I agree with you guys,

1202
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 5: like there is something beautiful about it or like interesting

1203
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 5: about it totally.

1204
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: The crush thing is really fascinating because this really struck

1205
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 3: me when I was watching Couple's Therapy, that show with

1206
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 3: worn on that show, I mean, of course, so there

1207
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: is a couple and one of them says, you know,

1208
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 3: I told her I have a new crush, and the

1209
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 3: complaint was that her girlfriend was not sort of excited

1210
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 3: enough about her new crush. Like it's like everything needs

1211
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 3: to be affirmed so much that I'm telling I am

1212
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 3: telling my boyfriend I have a new crush. And not

1213
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 3: only do I expect him to, you know, sort of

1214
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,439
Speaker 3: be okay with that conversation quote unquote, but I also

1215
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 3: want him to affirm it and yes, stand it and

1216
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 3: be like, oh my god, I'm so proud of you.

1217
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 3: That must be so exciting that you have a new crush.

1218
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 3: Tell me about it and we'll talk about it together.

1219
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 6: I feel like, my I just SIT's not me.

1220
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 5: I'm like, if my boyfriend is like, yeah, I think

1221
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 5: that guy's great, you should go out with him, I'm.

1222
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 6: Like, don't say that.

1223
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you don't know.

1224
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 6: You should watch out for that guy, you don't know,

1225
00:58:59,200 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 6: you know what I mean.

1226
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't there's a certain amount of the

1227
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 5: open relationship, which is like I want to maintain some

1228
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 5: part of myself and I want to like be my

1229
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 5: own person, and I want my freedom, and I don't

1230
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 5: want you to participate in it, like quit stealing my stuff.

1231
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: That's a really good point.

1232
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: It's almost like, you know, the point of an open relationship,

1233
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 3: I guess would be or part of the point would

1234
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: be to be more free. But then if you are

1235
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: discussing every little thing with your partner, then in fact,

1236
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 3: it's almost like you are even more tied in a

1237
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 3: sort of heteropatriarchal way. You're even more tied to your

1238
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 3: primary partner, and you like are losing a sense of

1239
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 3: like independence and privacy rather than gaining.

1240
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it creates all these like other I don't know,

1241
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 5: I'm a sort of like neurotic anxious person and that

1242
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 5: like I'm like, what, you know, when do I have

1243
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 5: to tell you that I'm going on a date?

1244
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:47,959
Speaker 6: Like do I have to tell you now? Like should

1245
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 6: I disclose this text message?

1246
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 5: Like this? It creates all this like bullshit that you

1247
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 5: think about where you're like This was supposed to be fun, Like,

1248
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 5: this was supposed to be.

1249
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 6: Liberal, like not liberated, but like free. Yeah exactly.

1250
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like it was supposed to be easier, and now

1251
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 5: it's because of this impetus to validate everyone's feelings as

1252
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 5: opposed to an impetus to like deal with your own

1253
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 5: feelings on your own time. Yeah, it creates like more

1254
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 5: stress in some ways.

1255
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, every relationship you do need like some privacy, Like

1256
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: you need a little bit of privacy in the relationship,

1257
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: and it's weird to think that you don't. I'm like

1258
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: obsessed with having a little bit of space to myself

1259
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: and like, you know, honey, I like to perform a bit.

1260
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: And so if you're seeing me at my worst all

1261
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: the time, like if you see me at three pm

1262
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: every Tuesday when I'm miserable, then you're not going to

1263
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: find me very hot. So I'm like, don't look at

1264
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: me now, like, let me be let me be private

1265
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: and let me be cranky, and then you know, Friday

1266
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: night you can see me in all my wonder and glory.

1267
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: That's right.

1268
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 5: You know.

1269
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 3: What I think actually would really help the situation is

1270
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 3: if Taylor Swift joined a polycule for approximately six months

1271
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 3: and then wrote an album about that.

1272
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 2: Yes, that's really good.

1273
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 1: That's really good.

1274
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 6: Wow, that's a great idea.

1275
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really do think that's the last frontier.

1276
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: I mean, in our previously mentioned Backlash episode with Kathy Griffin,

1277
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: we actually told Kathy Griffin that in trying to pivot

1278
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: to a joke, we told Kathy Griffin that Taylor Swift

1279
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: should be in a polycule with Joe and Jill Biden,

1280
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: and I feel that she was just sort of.

1281
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 6: Like what, she didn't get it, But Kathy Griffin ever

1282
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 6: replied like respond to.

1283
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 3: That, well, this is part of our many we this

1284
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 3: is part of our many efforts, and I just want

1285
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 3: to make it clear we adore Kathy Griffin, who are

1286
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 3: so honored she came on, and I genuinely have so

1287
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 3: much respect for her as a comic. But it was

1288
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 3: just very funny that we kept trying to pivot when

1289
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,439
Speaker 3: she would say, like, you know, go into the vote

1290
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 3: blue no matter who stuff. We would just try to

1291
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 3: very kindly pivot to a joke. And so she was like,

1292
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 3: you know, I think Taylor Swift, if she endorsed Joe Biden,

1293
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 3: that would really like help us out. And we were like,

1294
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 3: you know, it would be really funny if she was

1295
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 3: in a throttle with Joe Biden and Joe Biden, but.

1296
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 6: She didn't funny.

1297
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 2: I think she found I think she got it. I

1298
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: think she got I think she got it.

1299
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: But I also think she felt that it was a

1300
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: joke and was sort of like, well, I'm not kidding,

1301
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: let's uh and it was of like yeah, yeah, right right,

1302
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't know. I feel like this the

1303
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: Polly discussion is like so uh, you know, in my

1304
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: radical empathy complex because I am like, I do feel

1305
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,919
Speaker 1: like for the you know, quote unquote like heterosexual people

1306
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: that are in poly situations, I could see why they'd

1307
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: want to like, you know, defend it and be and

1308
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: like have people have respect for it because it's so

1309
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: maligned but in their in their community, but it is

1310
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: there's a self seriousness to it that's unfortunately gonna be

1311
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: a little laughable sometimes of course.

1312
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 3: But and also guess what, like the people that it's

1313
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 3: also a self selecting group of people that are gree

1314
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 3: to be in the New York Times feature, I think

1315
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 3: there are probably, you know, there are people living in

1316
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 3: polycules that are just like honestly reading that article and

1317
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 3: being like, oh god, they're making us look bad. It's

1318
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 3: like when I, you know, turn on my TV and

1319
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 3: see all these gay guys. You know, it's it's a

1320
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 3: self selecting group.

1321
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1322
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 5: I don't know though when I was gonna suggest polyamor

1323
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 5: for the topic, but I was like, you know, it

1324
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 5: could do more nation to Field.

1325
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: Which Field is a really tough one.

1326
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, Field the sex app for smart people.

1327
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

1328
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 5: But the I don't know, I do find that a

1329
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 5: lot of the people on it. I don't really use

1330
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 5: it anymore, but like when you look at it, it's

1331
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 5: it's a lot of branding, Like it's a lot of

1332
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 5: like self branding as like what kind of poll you

1333
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 5: are in the sort of like lower and low, you know,

1334
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 5: sort of subgenre of Polly that you can be and

1335
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 5: like what what are your weird roles and stuff?

1336
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 6: And I don't know, it's just.

1337
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: The like that was what was embarrassing about the New

1338
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: York Times article two. It was all the self branding

1339
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 1: of like he is jock football player, but I am

1340
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: which Crystal.

1341
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 6: I know, do people really want to be like that?

1342
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 6: Like do they really want to be like trapped in that?

1343
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: I think about this All the time.

1344
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 3: People are looking for meaning and nothing everything is. Everything

1345
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 3: is so uncertain and nebulous that I do think there's

1346
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 3: a comfort you can take and being like I am cheerleader,

1347
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 3: but where does it doesn't mean?

1348
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 5: But doesn't meaning come from the constantly cycling uncertainty and

1349
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 5: the way that you respond that you meaning is not fixed?

1350
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 6: I don't know what do you mean?

1351
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: I feel they're so I I get. I mean people

1352
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: just want to have control. I think more than meaning.

1353
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: I think people want to have control. And that's like

1354
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: like it's sort of like knowing, like what your favorite

1355
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: movie is. Like it's like people like to be like

1356
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: I know what my favorite movie is, therefore I know

1357
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: who I am and it's.

1358
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 2: Like, well yes.

1359
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 3: It's also just like identity is so complex that it's

1360
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 3: so much easier rather than finding out fundamentally what kind

1361
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 3: of person you are or something, it's easier to be

1362
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 3: like I am a.

1363
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: Gryffindor should we do our final segment?

1364
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lauren, any final thoughts on polyamory.

1365
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 6: I don't have any final thoughts. It's not it's not

1366
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 6: bad or good.

1367
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 5: I think I will say, you know, we're like Judge,

1368
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 5: Judge judge, judge, judge, but it's it would even though

1369
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 5: we all sort of do it in some way.

1370
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.

1371
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 6: I think the thing I will say, the thing that.

1372
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 5: I judge people for is being an obviously doomed monogamous relationship.

1373
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, and and sort of being like I just

1374
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 6: can't do it.

1375
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 5: This is the way that I am.

1376
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 6: And it's like, no, you're not.

1377
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 5: And there is something like really like moving and and

1378
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 5: nice about the people who are like I'm going to

1379
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 5: do this differently, even if they do a bad job

1380
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 5: of it.

1381
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 3: Right, I completely agree, And I think I don't want

1382
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 3: anyone to take away from this that we are I

1383
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 3: don't know, passing moral judgment on people who are in polycules,

1384
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 3: if anything, judgment passing exactly.

1385
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: There needs to be a different word for it, because

1386
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 1: it's not that I'm like opposed to it's like a

1387
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: type of person. It's almost like how like there's like

1388
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: people who smoke weed and their stoner culture, like like

1389
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: it's like it's not that I care, like I'm down

1390
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: for different relationship styles. It's just like be normal about it,

1391
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: be chill.

1392
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:39,919
Speaker 2: I mean that's literally how I feel about Taylor Swift.

1393
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 6: Literally it's just how you guys feel about Tailor Swift.

1394
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 6: It's the same. You don't They're not hurting you. Yeah,

1395
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 6: it's fine if they do that.

1396
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 5: But if any of them wanted to get woken up

1397
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 5: and come over and like listen to Lanada right like

1398
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 5: you would welcome them.

1399
01:06:55,000 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 1: You would help them welcome with open arms. Our final

1400
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: second that's called shout outs, and in this segment we

1401
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: do pay homage to the grand straight tradition of the

1402
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: radio shout out and just shout out to anything that

1403
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: we are enjoying at all. So imagine it's two thousand

1404
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: and one, you're at TRL shouting out to your squad

1405
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: back home, but about anything that you are currently enjoying. George,

1406
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: off the top of your head, do you have one?

1407
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 3: So you know part of this, yeah, part of the

1408
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 3: traditions that we think of them on the spot, just

1409
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 3: like we would if we were put on the spot

1410
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 3: on the radio. I I canduce one, it's not gonna

1411
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 3: be super entertaining, but it is gonna be earnest and

1412
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 3: something I genuinely recommend.

1413
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 2: Ok So I can go go for it.

1414
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, what's up breaks the losers out there?

1415
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 3: I want to give a shout out to my friend

1416
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 3: David's substack. It's called the Arcades dot subseack dot com.

1417
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: Now, okay, here's the thing. This is not one of

1418
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 2: the He's not some some journalist railing about cancel culture.

1419
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that it is a.

1420
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 3: Subsec where each week you get a curated list of

1421
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 3: things that are on auction. I'm talking furniture, design items,

1422
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 3: whatever that he has looked through and curated for you,

1423
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 3: and I have found some of them. I mean, we're

1424
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 3: talking a giant glass table with huge legs. We are

1425
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 3: talking a sort of like I'm looking at it now,

1426
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 3: silver leaf shelf brackets that are currently going for it. Nope,

1427
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 3: that link is broken, and we are talking. We are

1428
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 3: talking about there was one time a life size sort

1429
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 3: of sculpture, sculptural like set piece of Sigourney Weaver from

1430
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 3: the Alien movie that they were like getting rid of

1431
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 3: in some sort of like on set items auction that

1432
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 3: they were doing or whatever.

1433
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 2: And so this is a big part of his life.

1434
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 2: So he looks at auctions a lot.

1435
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 3: And you know, rather than seeing all the cacophony of

1436
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,560
Speaker 3: all the different live auctioneers and all those websites, you

1437
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 3: just get one email a week and it shows you

1438
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 3: truly some of the most fun there is a bit.

1439
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 2: Okay. So there's a sculpture of a banana.

1440
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 3: And when it's peeled, it looks like a volva inside,

1441
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 3: and that is made of I think, like pure hold on,

1442
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 3: let me find it all right, it's ivory, so you

1443
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 3: can't import it. So it is an ivory banana sculpture

1444
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 3: that has sort of flies that are colored around it,

1445
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 3: and then it is open and then you get a

1446
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 3: sort of vaginal inside.

1447
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 2: Anyway, the arcades, that'subs dot com.

1448
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 6: So you're looking for a girlfriend, I'm.

1449
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 3: Really drawn to this vaginal scope sculpture.

1450
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1451
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 1: That was beautiful? Okay, okay, what is a thoughtful thinkers

1452
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 1: around the globe? I would like to give a shout

1453
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: out to the new Chapel Rowan song good Luck Babe

1454
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: So and this is a mixed, mixed, complicated conversation because

1455
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: we are at a point where Chapel Roan is reached

1456
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: a larger stage. She is growing rapidly. And you know,

1457
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: I've been I've been standing, I've been you know, saying

1458
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: I love her, I love her, I love her. This

1459
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: new song is incredible, and I'm saying, Okay, now I'm

1460
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: getting a little bit scared. We are at sort of

1461
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: what I call Lizzo's pass, where she can either go

1462
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: in a cool direction and be cool forever, or in

1463
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: a not cool direction and be a shameful part of

1464
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: my past that I was a stand And so I

1465
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: am just so curious. Right now, all signs point to

1466
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 1: the right direction and she will be cool forever. But

1467
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: I have been proven wrong many times before, and I

1468
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,799
Speaker 1: love watching someone rise. I love right now. I'm obsessed

1469
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 1: with her, and I keep expecting to enter my own

1470
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: backlash air and it just keeps not happening. You want

1471
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: someone to be a fluke, and then you're like, no,

1472
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: she's really got the goods, and so chappel, I say,

1473
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: shout out to you, You've got the goods. Good luck,

1474
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: babe is such a hit, and you're at Lizo's pass.

1475
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: Make the right choice. It's left or right, and you

1476
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:05,760
Speaker 1: have all the power to make the right choice. I

1477
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 1: love your baby.

1478
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 2: Wow, Lizzo's pass, that's gonna be big.

1479
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 6: It's really good.

1480
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 2: I was thinking good.

1481
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 1: I mean there was a point. I mean, people forget

1482
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: Lizzo was once the George the Piana Tao of Brooklyn.

1483
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 2: So I want to where it was, Lauren the.

1484
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 3: So Lauren, the context there is that I one I

1485
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 3: met a guy that was trying to say krem de

1486
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 3: la krem A accidentally said pieda tere. And so now

1487
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 3: whenever something is sort of the krem de la krem

1488
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 3: of something, we say it's the Piana terracing makes sense.

1489
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, there was a point where Lizzo was like

1490
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: everyone was like, she's so cool, She's so amazing, She's awesome,

1491
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: like like the mean gay guys that you like live

1492
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: in New York.

1493
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean she was like cool and she was

1494
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 3: endorsed by Prince and she was from Minnesota and like

1495
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 3: played the flute.

1496
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,440
Speaker 6: She was playing the flute, and then she abused her employees.

1497
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, Lizzo's pass.

1498
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 5: All right, all right, Lauren should I what's what's the paters?

1499
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 5: I was going to do some object but you guys

1500
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 5: both recommended things from culture. So I'm also gonna mention

1501
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,679
Speaker 5: shout out an artist. I purchased a rhizograph print from

1502
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 5: this week. Her name is Maya Reverett. I was walking

1503
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 5: down the street living my local community lifestyle here in Berlin,

1504
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 5: and I went into a gallery and I saw this

1505
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 5: great print show featuring works by more Revert, and I

1506
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 5: bought a print from her.

1507
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 6: And it is a picture of a sort of name plate.

1508
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 5: On an apartment building with little buttons. And what I

1509
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 5: like about this print that I bought is it could

1510
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:42,719
Speaker 5: have gone terribly wrong. I could have been really twee,

1511
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 5: but she is incisive enough and smart enough to have

1512
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 5: labeled these name plates in a funny way. And I

1513
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:56,520
Speaker 5: am going to read the nameplates that you can theoretically

1514
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 5: does in this picture. Okay, perfect, So it's a just

1515
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 5: summarize again. It is an apartment name plate with the buzzer,

1516
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 5: so you can buzz indulgent father figure, can genital, nay sayer,

1517
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 5: plain spoken peer, self effacing acolyte, unbothered, enabler, or clairvoyant confidante.

1518
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 5: Like I said, it could have been twee and stupid,

1519
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 5: but it's actually pretty smart.

1520
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 6: So shout out to Mourra. Great work. I'm very happy

1521
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 6: and I'm excited to frame this and rid on my wall.

1522
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 5: Wow.

1523
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 2: And you know I'll tell you one thing you won't

1524
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 2: find that on Wikipedia. So eat Dick book four U.

1525
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:39,640
Speaker 6: No, we love we love book for him.

1526
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 2: It's a very no, we love book for I actually we.

1527
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: Hear at stradio allowed love book for him.

1528
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 3: I actually do love com back in. Yes, I love

1529
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 3: book for him. And they're still getting lips of flap

1530
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 3: in all these years later. So welcome back, Welcome back.

1531
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: I love being a tricoastal book forum based podcast.

1532
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 3: Me too, and and we'll see you. We'll see you

1533
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 3: in Berlin, by the way. Last question, Lauren Germany Gayer straight.

1534
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 6: Oh it's deeply closeted.

1535
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 1: Surely, Yeah, I agree, Well it sounds hot to me.

1536
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: I'm coming.

1537
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 2: All right, Lauren, Thanks so much for doing the pod.

1538
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 6: Thank you, guys.

1539
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 3: Lauren's new book is called No Judgment. Lauren's novel it's

1540
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 3: called Fake Accounts. Anything else you would like to promote

1541
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 3: any any upcoming television or film projects.

1542
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 6: No, no, no more projects.

1543
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 5: We're in repose currently. Yes, yes, we're training. We're in training.

1544
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 6: Let's say beautful.

1545
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,639
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for doing the Thanks for doing the pod.

1546
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:39,679
Speaker 2: Bye podcast, and now want more.

1547
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 3: Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month,

1548
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 3: discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com.

1549
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 2: Slash Stradia Lab and.

1550
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,839
Speaker 1: For all our visual learners, free full length video episodes

1551
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 1: are available on our YouTube.

1552
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 2: Now get back to work.