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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, we have some exciting news to share. ABC

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Speaker 1: News Studios has turned Caroline Brega's story from Betrayal season

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Speaker 1: four into a docu series. You'll get to meet the

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Speaker 1: people involved, You'll hear from people who have never spoken before,

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Speaker 1: and you get to see where this story took place.

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Speaker 1: We are so proud and excited to share it with

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Speaker 1: you all. You can stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets on Hulu

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Speaker 1: and Hulu for Disney Plus starting on August fourth. Hey, everyone,

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Speaker 1: just a note before we begin. This episode discusses suicidal ideation.

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Speaker 1: Please take care when listening. Betrayal Weekly is officially back.

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Speaker 1: This is season three, episode one. Each episode tells a

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Speaker 1: unique story of deception and broken trust, and each storyteller

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Speaker 1: has found their own path forward. Whether you've been with

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Speaker 1: us from the beginning or you're just tuning in, welcome.

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Speaker 1: We are starting this season with Aaron's story.

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Speaker 2: I'm at work, just plugging away, and I get an

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Speaker 2: email notification on my smartphone. I look down and it's

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Speaker 2: from the FBI ari information about Sabrina Taylor.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 1: change everything.

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Speaker 2: My name is Aaron Ward. I'm a software engineer working

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Speaker 2: in video games.

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Speaker 1: Aaron spent his whole career working on popular video games.

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Speaker 2: I worked on Halo Infinite I worked on Minecraft. I've

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Speaker 2: worked on a bunch of little projects for Nintendo. One

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Speaker 2: of my minor claims to fame as I had the

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Speaker 2: number one played game on nick dot com in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and eight, which was SpongeBob square Pants refremble.

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Speaker 1: Aarin's a third generation computer nerd. He grew up in

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Speaker 1: rural Ohio with his siblings and parents who worked in

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Speaker 1: computer science.

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Speaker 2: My parents were what I would call upper middle class,

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Speaker 2: both white collar, working professionals.

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Speaker 1: Aaron's parents made enough money for their families to live comfortably,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of people in their community struggle to

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Speaker 1: make ends meet. His parents tried to give back wherever

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Speaker 1: they could.

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Speaker 2: My parents always volunteered a lot. They were very generous,

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Speaker 2: and they also helped lead a lot of local fundraisers.

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Speaker 1: His parents taught him to be generous with his money

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Speaker 1: and his time.

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Speaker 2: My parents were a lot about honesty and a lot

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Speaker 2: about trying to help people that needed it.

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Speaker 1: Aaron spent most of his free time playing video games

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Speaker 1: or reading about them.

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Speaker 2: I was a really big Nintendo fan, and I had

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Speaker 2: a subscription to Nintendo Power.

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Speaker 1: Nintendo Power was a magazine all about Nintendo games. It

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Speaker 1: had comics, game reviews, and articles. Aaron read every issue,

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Speaker 1: and when he was in fifth grade, he read an

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Speaker 1: article that sparked his interest.

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Speaker 2: They mentioned the opening of the DigiPen campus.

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Speaker 1: DigiPen is a college near Seattle that specializes in video

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Speaker 1: game design. Even though Aaron was only in fifth grade, I.

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Speaker 2: Knew very early on that's really what I wanted to

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Speaker 2: do with my life.

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Speaker 1: Getting into DigiPen became Aaron's life goal.

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Speaker 2: One of our freshman year activities when I was in

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Speaker 2: high school was writing three things that you wanted to

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Speaker 2: try to accomplish in your life. My three things were

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Speaker 2: working on a Triple A video game title, graduating from DigiPen,

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Speaker 2: and being a Jeopardy champion.

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Speaker 1: As of this recording, and is not a Jeopardy Champion yet,

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Speaker 1: but he's accomplished his other two goals because senior year

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Speaker 1: in high school he was accepted into DigiPen. He left

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Speaker 1: the farms and factories of rural Ohio and jumped headfirst

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Speaker 1: into a world of video games. It was exciting and

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Speaker 1: Aaron learned a lot, But DigiPen had one big shortcoming.

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Speaker 2: DigiPen has a ninety five to five male to female ratio,

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Speaker 2: so DigiPen was four years of having almost no female socialization.

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Speaker 2: As someone who had mostly female friends in high school,

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Speaker 2: that was a big change for me.

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Speaker 1: Aaron noticed how being in a male dominated environment was

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Speaker 1: impacting the people around him, and he didn't like what

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Speaker 1: he saw.

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Speaker 2: I had seen a lot of my peers at DigiPen

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Speaker 2: starting to go down that path of misogyny because they

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Speaker 2: weren't being around women in their day to day lives,

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Speaker 2: so the only women they were exposed to were actresses

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Speaker 2: or people in the media.

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Speaker 1: Aaron didn't want to go down that path, so he

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Speaker 1: read books and worked with his therapist to learn what

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Speaker 1: healthy relationships really looked like.

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Speaker 2: One thing I learned is to try to not be

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Speaker 2: transactional in relationships. It's not about I do this for

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Speaker 2: you, you do this thing for me. Relationships need to be

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Speaker 2: about the broader scope of caring for each other and

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Speaker 2: being there for each other when stuff is hard.

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Speaker 1: After graduating from college, Aaron and some friends moved into

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Speaker 1: an apartment together. He was working as a video game

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Speaker 1: programmer and loved the life he'd built. He felt ready

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Speaker 1: to meet someone and decided to give dating in Seattle

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Speaker 1: a try.

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Speaker 2: I was not super outgoing. I was not a go

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Speaker 2: out to the bars and meet someone kind of person.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I learn into internet dating. At the

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Speaker 2: time two thousand and seven, the iPhone is barely a thing.

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Speaker 2: There's no tender, so what I'm left with option wise

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Speaker 2: are Craigslist personals.

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Speaker 1: Craigslist Personals was a subsection of Craigslist for people who

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Speaker 1: were looking for relationships, romantic connections, or friendships. You could

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Speaker 1: post an ad about yourself and what you were looking for.

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Speaker 2: I had noticed there was a glut of men looking

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Speaker 2: for women ads, so I mostly focused on responding to

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Speaker 2: the few women that had posted their ads up.

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Speaker 1: One day, while scrolling through Craigslist, Aaron saw an ad

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Speaker 1: that caught his attention.

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Speaker 2: The headline of it was about how white guys are

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Speaker 2: scared to date black women, and it intrigued me enough

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Speaker 2: to at least read it. In the ad, she talked

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Speaker 2: about how she was a nerdy black woman who grew

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Speaker 2: up in a largely white Midwestern area and how the

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Speaker 2: white men of the Seattle area had never seemed to

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Speaker 2: approach her or approached her in very poor ways.

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Speaker 1: Aaron responded to the ad, apologizing on behalf of the

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Speaker 1: white nerdy men of Seattle. The author of the post

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Speaker 1: thought his response was funny and wrote him back.

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Speaker 2: I found out her name was Sabrina. We exchanged pictures

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Speaker 2: over email and had a couple of emails back and

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Speaker 2: forth before we decided to go out on a date

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Speaker 2: to the local Athleash dog park.

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Speaker 1: On the day of their date, Aaron headed to the

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Speaker 1: dog park feeling nervous but excited.

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Speaker 2: She showed up looking just like her pictures with her

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Speaker 2: pet Dalmatian Satchel, who was very sweet, and we ended

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Speaker 2: up taking a nice long hour plus walk where we

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Speaker 2: both went through our lives and the things we have

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Speaker 2: in common. She grew up in Iowa, I grew up

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Speaker 2: in Ohio, so we both grew up in the Midwest.

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Speaker 1: Aaron immediately felt relaxed around Sabrina.

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Speaker 2: We also talked about all of our different nerdy interests,

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Speaker 2: video games, anime, television shows. We were both big Sailor

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Speaker 2: Moon fans. We had both played basically every Nintendo game

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Speaker 2: that had ever been made. Mario's Zelda's final fantasies.

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Speaker 1: After their first date, Aaron couldn't wait to see Sabrina again.

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Speaker 1: He invited her to hang out with him and his

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Speaker 1: friends at a pub they liked on the East side

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Speaker 1: of Seattle. He was a little nervous would Sabrina click

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Speaker 1: with his friends, but as soon as she showed up,

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Speaker 1: his nerves melted away.

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Speaker 2: She got along with basically everybody. She is magnetic and

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Speaker 2: fras a lot of people around her to listen to

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Speaker 2: her talk about whatever she's talking about. She's definitely the

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Speaker 2: kind of person that can make friends very easily in

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Speaker 2: a crowd.

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Speaker 1: Aaron loved hanging out with his friends with Sabrina by

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Speaker 1: his side.

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Speaker 2: The fact that she was so charismatic was excriefly attractive

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Speaker 2: to me. It really helped fill in some of my

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Speaker 2: gaps of getting conversations started and breaking the ice socially

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Speaker 2: with new people.

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Speaker 1: After that night at the pub, Aaron and Sabrina had

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Speaker 1: their first kiss.

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Speaker 2: We had great physical chemistry as well as having a

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Speaker 2: lot of things in common, so that really felt like

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Speaker 2: it was kind of a meant to be situation.

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Speaker 1: They started spending more and more time together. Soon they

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Speaker 1: were officially boyfriend and girlfriend. They had long conversations about

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Speaker 1: their backgrounds and dreams for the future.

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Speaker 2: She was an intern for the Bill and Melinda Gates

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Speaker 2: Foundation and she was finishing up her double bachelors in

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Speaker 2: public health and women's studies, with her end goal being

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Speaker 2: becoming a doctor. She had big plans for her life

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Speaker 2: going forward. That was something that was attractive to me.

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Speaker 2: In a possibly forever partner.

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Speaker 1: With Sabrina, the world felt big.

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Speaker 2: We went on a couple of little trips to the coast,

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Speaker 2: and being with her just really got me out of

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Speaker 2: my shell and got me out of my apartment with

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Speaker 2: my roommates and out doing things, even if it was

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Speaker 2: just shopping or wandering around Pye Place Market.

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Speaker 1: And of course they loved playing video games together.

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Speaker 2: She would have a game that she really liked the

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Speaker 2: story of wasn't quite dexterous enough to beat, and so

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Speaker 2: she'd get us started and I would do the later

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Speaker 2: harder levels for her so we could both see the

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Speaker 2: ending of the game.

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Speaker 1: They were on the same team.

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Speaker 2: Sabrina really made me feel seen and appreciated in a

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Speaker 2: way that I hadn't been for a while. She always

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Speaker 2: made me feel like I was a priority in her life,

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Speaker 2: and I tried to do the same.

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Speaker 1: They began to talk about their long term goals.

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Speaker 2: I wanted the stereotypical white picket fence wife, two and

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Speaker 2: a half kids, etc. She was looking toward medical school,

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Speaker 2: so kids and getting married and stuff that was down

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Speaker 2: the road a bit, and I was okay with that.

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Speaker 2: At this point, we're still early to mid twenties, so

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Speaker 2: we've got some time.

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Speaker 1: Aaron and his friends moved into a new house together

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Speaker 1: in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: A month after me and my roommates had moved into

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Speaker 2: the house, Sabrina comes to me and says that her

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Speaker 2: apartment is going condo. Obviously, she can't afford to buy it,

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Speaker 2: and she's not making a lot of money as an

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Speaker 2: intern at the Gates Foundation, and she's still trying to

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Speaker 2: finish up that last month or two of school. She

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Speaker 2: basically doesn't have anywhere to go.

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Speaker 1: So Sabrina moved in with them.

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Speaker 2: I was excited to move in with my girlfriend, even

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Speaker 2: if it was on a slightly faster schedule than I

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Speaker 2: was planning on in my head. I was happy to

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Speaker 2: have her with me every day, waking up with me,

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Speaker 2: going to bed with me just figure out all the time.

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Speaker 1: In true Sabrina fashion, she made the transition easy. She

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Speaker 1: brought a lot of laughter and fun to the house.

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Speaker 2: She got along really well with my roommates. She integrated

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Speaker 2: very quickly into the friend group. It was just a

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Speaker 2: lot of fun to have everybody living together. You know,

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Speaker 2: we all played rock band together, and we could kind

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Speaker 2: of be loud and crazy because we weren't sharing a

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Speaker 2: wall with anybody.

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Speaker 1: But living in the same house also meant seeing each

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Speaker 1: other's daily struggles up close. Sabrina had been dealing with

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Speaker 1: chronic back pain. Aaron saw just how much of a

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Speaker 1: toll it was taking on her.

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Speaker 2: It had gotten bad enough that she had to call

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Speaker 2: out of work a couple days for it. So I

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Speaker 2: encouraged her to go to the doctor and you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of get this checked out.

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Speaker 1: Sabrina read. The day of her appointment arrived, and when

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Speaker 1: Aaron came home from work, he was anxious to hear

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Speaker 1: how it went.

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Speaker 2: I come home and she's seated on the couch, looking

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Speaker 2: very defeated. So I sit down and I hold her hand,

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Speaker 2: and that's when she tells me her doctor had diagnosed

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Speaker 2: her as having multiple sclerosis.

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Speaker 1: When Aaron and his girlfriend, Sabrina moved in together, Aaron

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Speaker 1: realized how much her chronic back pain was impacting her

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Speaker 1: day to day life. He encouraged her to go to

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Speaker 1: the doctor's and she did. When she came back from

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Speaker 1: her appointment, I could tell right away that something was wrong.

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Speaker 2: So I sit down and I hold her hand, and

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Speaker 2: I asked her what happened that day, and that's when

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Speaker 2: she tells me that her doctor had diagnosed her as

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Speaker 2: having multiple sclerosis.

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Speaker 1: Aaron held her close as Sabrina began to cry.

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Speaker 2: She started talking about all the things that she might

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Speaker 2: not be able to do, and I tried to comfort

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Speaker 2: her the best I could.

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Speaker 1: Aaron was in shock. His grandfather, Harlan, had died of

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Speaker 1: multiple sclerosis, so Aaron knew how difficult MS could be.

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Speaker 2: I heard the horror stories from my dad about how

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Speaker 2: bad it was for Harlan. I had known a couple

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Speaker 2: of friends that had an MS and had their lives

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Speaker 2: cut pretty short. I had a thumb in the air

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Speaker 2: guess of her life expectancy being somewhere in the fifties.

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Speaker 2: Maybe if she was already diagnosed before we had turned thirty.

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Speaker 2: I was just devastated.

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Speaker 1: Their shared dreams for the future, house kids growing old

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Speaker 1: together crumbled in front of his eyes.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do besides just hold her

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Speaker 2: and tell her. I promised to help her through whatever

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Speaker 2: came up. I was going to do whatever it took.

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Speaker 1: Even though it only been dating a year. Aaron was

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Speaker 1: committed to staying by her side whatever their future held.

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Speaker 2: I never had the thought of not committing to it.

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Speaker 2: It didn't scare me off. I was in for the

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Speaker 2: long haul at this point. I wanted to be there

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Speaker 2: for her. This is the reality now, so let's figure

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Speaker 2: it out. Let's do what we can.

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Speaker 1: Sabrina had an undergraduate degree in public health, so.

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Speaker 2: I kind of let her take the driver's seat as

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Speaker 2: far as learning about the disease and letting me know

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Speaker 2: what she needed from me to assist.

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00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 1: Sabrina's first symptom was back pain, but over time she

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Speaker 1: started experiencing other symptoms as.

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Speaker 2: Well, generalized soreness and limb pain, and casual exercise from

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Speaker 2: like walking the dog was starting to bother her. So

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Speaker 2: walking the dog became entirely by responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Then standing at all became a challenge.

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Speaker 2: So I took over a larger share of the housework

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Speaker 2: and basically all the cooking. It was a little exhausting.

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Speaker 2: Quite frankly, It's kind of just lucky I was still

276
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 2: in my late twenties and I kind of still had

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Speaker 2: the energy to do all of that. A lot of caffeine,

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Speaker 2: a lot of sugar.

279
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Speaker 1: Aaron did everything he could to make Sabrina as happy

280
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Speaker 1: as possible during this incredibly challenging time.

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Speaker 2: I was paying for a lot of makeup, a lot

282
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Speaker 2: of clothes. She had very particular tastes, as my dad

283
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 2: liked to say, she has champagne taste in a beer pocketbook.

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Speaker 1: Sabrina was working at a nonprofit, but her symptoms quickly

285
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Speaker 1: began interfering with her job.

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Speaker 2: She's been calling out of work a couple times a

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Speaker 2: month at this point. One day she calls me up

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Speaker 2: and says, well, I got fired.

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Speaker 1: Aaron was immediately defensive of Sabrina.

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Speaker 2: What the hell happened? They can't just fire you if

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Speaker 2: you're sick.

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Speaker 1: Sabrina explained that she had called out of work because

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Speaker 1: she was having a high pain day, but then she

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Speaker 1: had to run an errand that couldn't wait, and while

295
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Speaker 1: she was out, she ran into her boss.

296
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Speaker 2: Her boss had seen her out shopping on a day

297
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Speaker 2: when she was supposedly in so much pain she couldn't

298
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Speaker 2: get out of bed. Aaron was frustrated, if you're calling

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Speaker 2: out and you need to stay home.

300
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Speaker 1: He told her to just let him handle the errand

301
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Speaker 1: next time.

302
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,359
Speaker 2: After she's fired from her job, she's basically stuck at home.

303
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Speaker 2: She talks about going back to medical school. Well, I'm

304
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,159
Speaker 2: very encouraging of this because she needs to have a

305
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 2: job for us to function as a unit. I don't

306
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 2: make enough money to support us both forever.

307
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: Sabrina still needed a few more college credits before she

308
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 1: could apply to medical school, so she enrolled in community

309
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 1: college classes. Aarin was now the sole provider for both

310
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Speaker 1: of them, but Sabrina's spending habits didn't slow down. Aaron

311
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 1: was left scrambling to cover the costs.

312
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 2: I end up getting payday loans and spending a good

313
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,959
Speaker 2: chunk of every payday going to each payday loan place

314
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Speaker 2: to pay the loan off, and then immediately loan the

315
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:44,119
Speaker 2: money again.

316
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Speaker 1: He watched his credit card bills stack up. Sabrina was

317
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: still spending money on luxury items like makeup and clothes

318
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 1: while they were struggling to make ends meet. It was

319
00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 1: unsustainable and stressful. Aaron confronted Sabrina about her spending habits

320
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 1: a few times.

321
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 2: It usually broke down into a lot of tears and

322
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Speaker 2: promising to do better and saying I should be able

323
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Speaker 2: to live comfortably.

324
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Speaker 1: Sabrina's symptoms were progressing and she wanted to make the

325
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: most of the years where her quality of life was

326
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: still relatively good. She wanted to experience the world and

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00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 1: fill her days with things that brought her joy. Aaron

328
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 1: wanted that too, but the financial pressure on him was mounting.

329
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: He was also paying for all of Sabrina's medications.

330
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Speaker 2: After losing her job with the nonprofit, Sabrina struggled to

331
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 2: maintain insurance. She would tell me that, oh, I've got

332
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 2: my insurance set up. It's fine, you can go in.

333
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 2: It won't cost that much.

334
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 1: But when Aaron went to the pharmacy and they ran

335
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: Sabrina's insurance, it often didn't go through.

336
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Speaker 2: So it goes from twenty thirty bucks to three hundred

337
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 2: four hundred bucks. That was several hundred dollars that I

338
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 2: usually didn't have every month. But I have to have

339
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 2: the medication today because we're out. Medication is not something

340
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: you can live without.

341
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Speaker 1: So Aaron did whatever had to be done to make

342
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: sure Sabrina got her medications on time.

343
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 2: It often came down to borrowing money from people, or

344
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 2: paying bills late, or the internet gets shut off for

345
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 2: a few days, having the rent check bounce, just to

346
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,360
Speaker 2: make sure that the medications were filled on the day

347
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 2: they needed to be filled.

348
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 1: As the months went on, Sabrina's MS symptoms worsened. She

349
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: began using a cane for walking assistance. It was harder

350
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 1: for her to keep her balance, and she began fainting frequently.

351
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,919
Speaker 1: Her soreness and limpain became more severe.

352
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Speaker 2: Because of all the pain, she was having a lot

353
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: of trouble keeping her energy level up. Seeing her struggles

354
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 2: with the illness was definitely a major challenge for me.

355
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 2: I didn't want to see her in pain. I wanted

356
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 2: to try and make her life as easy as possible

357
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 2: because I knew that this was going to be a

358
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 2: pretty rough ride for her.

359
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: He offered to support her by coming to doctor's appointments

360
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: with her, but the scheduling never worked out. In the

361
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 1: middle of a very challenging time, there was a bright

362
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: spot Aaron got his dream job.

363
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 2: I got a job as a software engineer at Nintendo.

364
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 2: This is my dream company. I got business cards that

365
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 2: say Nintendo and my name. It's a huge deal to me.

366
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: Aarin and Sabrina had moved out of the house with

367
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: his friends and into an apartment of their own. On

368
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: top of starting his new job, Aarin was spending hours

369
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: each day taking care of Sabrina. It was difficult.

370
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: By this point were much less romantic partners and much

371
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: more caregiver and receiver. I did all the dishes, I

372
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 2: did all the cooking. We don't really have that romantic

373
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 2: relationship anymore. We're always broke. We're not going out on dates.

374
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: Aaron was caring for Sabrina financially and handling their household

375
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: tours because her MS symptoms made physical labor painful, but

376
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: Sabrina's quality of life was still good enough for her

377
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: to spend time with friends and have independence, and so

378
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: her personal spending never slowed.

379
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: She was going out with friends and often spending money

380
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 2: we didn't have. She's buying new clothes all the time,

381
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 2: spending one hundred plus bucks a month at the mac

382
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 2: counter and Sophora packages from different delivery companies somehow magically

383
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: getting paid for and this is on top of all

384
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: the medications.

385
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: Aaron felt powerless to stop Sabrina's spending. As her ms

386
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: symptoms worsened, so did her mental health. She began struggling

387
00:22:58,960 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: with suicidal ied.

388
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: At first, it was, well, if we can't refill my

389
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 2: meds on time and I have to go without a

390
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: couple days, maybe I should just kill myself so I

391
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: don't have to experience the pain for that week until

392
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: a paycheck shows up.

393
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: It felt like all of Sabrina's safety and stability rested

394
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: on Aerin. He worked hard to cover all of her

395
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: medication costs, but his paychecks weren't enough and he was

396
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: going into debt to afford everything. Then, Sabrina began calling

397
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: Aaron while he was at work. Usually there was something

398
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: specific that she needed.

399
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: Often it was medication related, but it started to expand

400
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 2: beyond that. There was an occasion where suicide was threatened

401
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: if I couldn't come off with five hundred dollars to

402
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: buy a custom cosplay outfit for convention.

403
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: Sabrina's calls began taking up more and more of his workday.

404
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: She was in such a delicate mental state. He felt

405
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: like it was unsafe to leave her alone.

406
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: All of this basically just drove me into a level

407
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: of depression and exhaustion that I became unrecognizable to a

408
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 2: lot of friends and family. I was always eating cheap garbage.

409
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: There were a lot of times where I skipped lunch

410
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: at work for a week or more because I didn't

411
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 2: have the five bucks I needed to go get lunch.

412
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: The cost of Sabrina's MS medications was impossible to keep

413
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: up with. Aaron tried everything.

414
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 2: I filled up several credit cards trying to cover everything.

415
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: I basically sold everything I owned. I had a video

416
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: game collection that in today's dollars probably would be worth

417
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: twenty five to thirty thousand dollars, and I was selling

418
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: it for pennies on the dollar because there was something

419
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: we needed now. It was always I need a couple

420
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 2: hundred bucks, now, need by medication tomorrow. I need to

421
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: make sure the rent check doesn't bounce again.

422
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: Erin was living in a survival state, always trying to

423
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: keep up with the most urgent need. Then, after Aarin

424
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: had been racking up medical debt for a year, Sabrina

425
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: heard about a new treatment from her doctor. It was

426
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: a glimmer of hope.

427
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: The experimental intervenous treatment for MS came up. The first time.

428
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 2: The medication was called interferon.

429
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: It was the early two thousands and there weren't as

430
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: many treatment options available for MS as there are today.

431
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: For the first time and months, Sabrina seemed optimistic this

432
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: treatment could be the key to getting their lives back

433
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: on track. Instead of the weekly and monthly payments. This

434
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: treatment lasted a few months. Her doctors were hopeful that

435
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: interferon could help manage all of her symptoms instead of

436
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: needing multiple prescriptions. It had the possibility to make majorly

437
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: improve her quality of life.

438
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: If I could pay seven or eight hundred dollars every

439
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 2: couple months, then we wouldn't need to be buying all

440
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: these other medications. This experimental treatment would be able to

441
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: cover everything, or at least make a significant difference in

442
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: her well being, possibly to the point where she might

443
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 2: even be able to go back to work. It felt

444
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 2: like a god said, the possibility that we could actually

445
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: start moving forward as equal partners again instead of just

446
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: me taking care for all the time.

447
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: The way they were living was unsustainable, so Aaron was

448
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: willing to take a risk.

449
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 2: I decided to move forward with it. I got some

450
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: help from my parents to help start the initial treatments.

451
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: He kept offering to attend Sabrina's appointments with her, but

452
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: it never worked out.

453
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: They were always scheduled in the middle of the morning

454
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: or in the middle of the afternoon on a work day.

455
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 2: If I took time off to try and join her appointment,

456
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 2: oh they had to cancel and reschedule.

457
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: Aaron had put everything he had on the line to

458
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: help Sabrina access this treatment. It was becoming more and

459
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: more concerning to him that he'd never spoken to a

460
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: doctor about it directly. Every medical update he heard came

461
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: through Sabrina.

462
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 2: I had been talking to my dad about it, and

463
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 2: he told me that I should start asking for receipts

464
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: since I could never make it to an appointment.

465
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: So Aaron asked Sabrina to see a receipt for one

466
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: of her interfere on treatments, and when he did, something

467
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: strange happened.

468
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: I could kind of see panic on her face for

469
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: about a half a second, but.

470
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: The panic quickly disappeared and she told.

471
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: Him, sure, I'll get you on. That became a week

472
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: or more, and then over a month into oh, it's

473
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: time for the next treatment.

474
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: Aaron knew something wasn't right, but he was starting to

475
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: lose the will to argue with Sabrina.

476
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: Y I think at this point I had just been

477
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: beaten down emotionally so badly that I kind of just

478
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: stopped caring. I didn't even have the strength to fight

479
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: and argue about just basic information.

480
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,479
Speaker 1: At this point, Aaron and Sabrina had been together for

481
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: five years, and it had been four years since she

482
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with MS. Paying for her m's treatments for

483
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: years had been a huge strain on Erin. He was

484
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: racking up debt and his mental health was getting worse.

485
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: But Aaron knew that having MS was a much bigger nightmare.

486
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: He had watched Sabrina suffer for years, and the idea

487
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: of doubting any part of her experience made Aaron feel guilty.

488
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: Who lies about being this sick.

489
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: One day, Sabrina approached Arin and told him that her

490
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: doctors were recommending she'd start a new version of interfere on,

491
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: one that she'd only need every six to nine months,

492
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: But there was a catch. It cost eight thousand dollars

493
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: for each treatment. She was planning to ask a mutual

494
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 1: friend of theirs for help. Up until now, Aaron had

495
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: been paying for all the interfere on treatments himself.

496
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: Not having to panic about it at this point was

497
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: such a priority that I agreed to go along with it.

498
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: Aaron and Sabrina went to their friend's house to ask

499
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: for his financial support.

500
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: The friend brings up, okay, so you want to borrow

501
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand dollars and I had to hide the shock

502
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: on my face because suddenly the number had changed. I

503
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: didn't want to mess it up by confronting Sabrina about

504
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: it in front of him. So after we leave, I

505
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: confront her in the car about what's this extra seven

506
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: thousand dollars for? And she tells me, well, I want

507
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: to start school up again. There's a couple thousand bucks

508
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: for that. I need to replace my computer, and you

509
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: know I can only take a top of the line MacBook,

510
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: so that's another three or four thousand dollars.

511
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: By this point, Aaron did not trust Sabrina to handle

512
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: money responsibly.

513
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: The first thing I told her was, I know how

514
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: you are about spending money. If you're going to do this,

515
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: go do the medical treatment first. Don't go buy the MacBook,

516
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 2: don't pay for school stuff. You go do the medical

517
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: treatment first. She said, yes, yes, of course, of course

518
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: I'll do the medical treatment first.

519
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: But Arin didn't feel comfortable just taking Sabrina's word for it.

520
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: He needed to see for himself how she was spending

521
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: this money.

522
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: Her computer was broken, so she had been doing some

523
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: of her work on my computer. That meant that she

524
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 2: had saved her bank log in on my computer. So

525
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: after she deposited the check, I started watching the balance

526
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: of the account.

527
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: Every day he checked to see if she had made

528
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: the eight thousand dollars payment for interfere on.

529
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: And every day I would open the bank account and

530
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: see a couple hundred bucks get nibbled away, and then

531
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: big purchase at the max store, went to the mall

532
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: and spent fifteen hundred dollars on clothes and makeup.

533
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: Aaron watched in horror as the bank account slowly drained.

534
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: There was still some part of him that expected her

535
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: to pay for the treatment. For a while, there was

536
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: still enough in the account eight thousand dollars to afford it.

537
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: It's getting smaller and smaller. I'm not seeing the big

538
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: expenditure for the treatment, and then one day we've passed

539
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: below the line of what the treatment costs. That was

540
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: the whole reason we were supposed to borrow this money

541
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: in the first place. And she's spending two hundred bucks

542
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: a week on my little Pony phone game micro transactions.

543
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: It gets below half of what she supposedly needed for

544
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: this treatment, and then it finally gets below a thousand dollars,

545
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: and that was the day I kind of snapped.

546
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: Aaron had woken up before Sabrina to walk the dogs.

547
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: I went in the kitchen, I grabbed a bunch of

548
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: black garriage bags from under the sink. She was still

549
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: in bed.

550
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: He woke her up, handed her the trash bags, and

551
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 1: told her to start packing her things.

552
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: At first, she tried to deny that she had spent

553
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: the money, and that's when I revealed that no, I

554
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: had actually been watching her bank account. And that's when

555
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: the whopper to end all whoppers comes out of her mouth.

556
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: She tells me that she's been working the day shift

557
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: at a strip club while I've been at work at Nintendo.

558
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: She doesn't have a receipt for it, but she did

559
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: get the treatment, and that's what she spent her stripper.

560
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: Money on Aaron wasn't buying it.

561
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think this was the last time I ever

562
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: believed a word she said. She managed to get me

563
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: to not throw her out with cross cannial tears, claiming

564
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: she would get me receipts.

565
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: Aaron knew he should walk away from the relationship, but

566
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: the reality was a lot more complicated.

567
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: An emotionally abusive relationship is like a cult of two people.

568
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: The cult leader no longer had control over me, but

569
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: I also didn't have the emotional and financial strength to leave.

570
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 1: At this point, Sabrina suggested opening their relationship and seeing

571
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: other people. Aaron agreed. In the months that followed, Sabrina

572
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: was still adamant that she had paid for the interfere

573
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: on treatment.

574
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: I could never get documented proof of it. No receipts,

575
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: no information from the doctor, no nothing.

576
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: Aarin was trying to find a way to leave the relationship,

577
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: but he was worried about what would happen to Sabrina

578
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: when he left. She had been dependent on him for

579
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: six years now.

580
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: I still believed that she had MS, but that she

581
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: just wasn't nearly as bad as what she led on

582
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: because I had seen enough visual indicators to convince me

583
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: that she was at least impaired. Somehow, it felt like

584
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: she was just taking advantage of my family's history with

585
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: MS to try and squeeze as much money out of

586
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: my family as possible.

587
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: Since Erin and Sabrina had opened their relationship, he started

588
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: seeing someone named Kia. He loved spending time with her.

589
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: She was like a breath of fresh air. One night,

590
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: while Aaron was out on a date with Kia, he

591
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: got an alarming text from Sabrina.

592
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: Sabrina had told me that she was in the bathroom,

593
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: had taken a whole bottle of pills.

594
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: Sabrina had made a suicide attempt. Erin began to panic.

595
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: He knew Sabrina often lied in exaggerated things, but if

596
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: there was any chance at all that this was true,

597
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,240
Speaker 1: he had to help her.

598
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: So Kia and I rushed home. We parked outside well.

599
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: Aaron and Kia were still in the car. The front

600
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: door of the house opened.

601
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: And Sabrina walks out with two of her friends to

602
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: go out to dinner.

603
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: She didn't see him in the car. She walked right

604
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: past him. For Aaron, that moment changed everything.

605
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: This was purely a power play to try and keep

606
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: my attention.

607
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: Aaron was starting to realize that his girlfriend, Sabrina was

608
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: lying about the severity of her MS symptoms to get

609
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: financial support from him and his friend. Aaron hadn't found

610
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 1: a way to leave the relationship. He was still worried

611
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: about her physical and mental health. One night, Sabrina texted

612
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: him that she had attempted suicide and locked herself in

613
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: the bathroom.

614
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 2: So Keian I rushed home, parked outside, and while we're

615
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: sitting out there, Sabrina walks out with two of her

616
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: friends to go out to dinner.

617
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: Erin was scared that Sabrina's life was at risk and

618
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: she needed immediate medical attention, but here she was dressed

619
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: up to go out laughing with her friends.

620
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: This was purely a power play to try and keep

621
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: my attention. After Sabrina came home, I told her that

622
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: I saw her leaving, and she tried to tell me

623
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 2: that they were taking her to the hospital. I told

624
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: her I knew that was bullshit.

625
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: For the last five years of their relationship, Sabrina had

626
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: been convincing Erin that she was on the brink of

627
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: collapse mentally and fail and that he was the only

628
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: person who could keep her safe. But now the extent

629
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: of her deception was becoming clear. To Aaron. This wasn't

630
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: just exaggeration and bad spending habits. This was emotional and

631
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: financial abuse.

632
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: The following weekend, I invited one of my good friends

633
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: over to kind of steal my resolve, and I sat

634
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 2: Sabrina down on the couch in the living room and

635
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: I told her we are not in a relationship anymore.

636
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: I'm not paying for everything anymore. I'm done.

637
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 1: The next weekend, while Sabrina was out of the house,

638
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: Aaron's friends helped him move out.

639
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: I read at a due apartment across town, where she

640
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: didn't know where I lived. I think she knew it

641
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: was coming. She knew she was busted for the fake

642
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: suicide attempt, and she had just resigned herself to the

643
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,479
Speaker 2: fact that the spigot that was Aaron is turned off.

644
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: Sabrina and Aaron still had a lot of mutual friends.

645
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: After the breakup, Aaron distanced himself from their social group.

646
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: She told a lot of people that I was physically abusive,

647
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: financially abusive, that I was the one pissing away all

648
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 2: of our money.

649
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: Aaron was isolated from his community and left to deal

650
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: with the impact of years of financial and emotional abuse.

651
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: I was left with significant psychological trauma that I, unfortunately

652
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: didn't take the time to properly process.

653
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: A few years past, Aarin was trying to rebuild a

654
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: base of stability in his life and pay off the

655
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: debt he mounted while taking care of Sabrina. One day,

656
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: Aaron was on Facebook when he saw that one of

657
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: his old friends had posted a GoFundMe for Sabrina.

658
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 2: I clicked on the link and gave it a read.

659
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: She was in Japan and someone had cleaned out her

660
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: accounts while she was in Japan, and she was stuck

661
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: there with no return ticket and no money. I posted

662
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: her apply to the GoFundMe, saying that if you're going

663
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: to start raising money for Sabrina, how about you start

664
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 2: raising money to pay all the people back that she

665
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: took money from and never paid back.

666
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: The organizer of the GoFundMe criticized him for calling Sabrina's

667
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: character into question. His concern was shut down in the comments,

668
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: but other people had started catching on to Sabrina's lies.

669
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: The friends she was hanging out with in Japan. They

670
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: collected evidence then posted their side of the story to Facebook.

671
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: Sabrina posted that she had spent the day at the

672
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,959
Speaker 2: Bullet train station trying to figure out what the best

673
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 2: time to jump in front of the train was. In reality,

674
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 2: she had spent that day at Disneyland Tokyo, spending hundreds

675
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: or one thousands of dollars the same time pleading poverty

676
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: on Facebook.

677
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: Finally, Sabrina was exposed. The truth was out there, and

678
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: there was no way for her to talk her way

679
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: out of it.

680
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: Over the next week, I probably fielded a dozen or

681
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: more apologies. Sabrina's scam worked great until people actually started

682
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 2: talking to each other, and then it all fell apart.

683
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: Other people began to come forward, sharing their own stories

684
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: of Sabrina borrowing money and never paying them back.

685
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: It felt gratifying to know that I wasn't the only one,

686
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 2: and at the same time I was racked with guilt

687
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: that if I had figured some of this stuff out sooner,

688
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: maybe a lot of these other people wouldn't have lost

689
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 2: all this money.

690
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: One day, something unexpected happened.

691
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: I'm at work at Nintendo, just plugging away, and I

692
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: get an email notification on my smartphone. I looked down

693
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 2: and it's from the FBI ari information about Sabrina Taylor.

694
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: The FBI was investigating Sabrina for fraud.

695
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: I gave the agent a call and we spent about

696
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: an hour going through all of the different parts of

697
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 2: my time with Sabrina, her MS treatments and diagnosis.

698
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: The FBI kept Aaron up to date on Sabrina's case.

699
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: She was charged with four counts of wire fraud. She

700
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: appeared in court for the first time in November of

701
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. After that, Aaron was able to see

702
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: the case the FBI had built against Sabrina.

703
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: It wasn't until I saw some of the evidence that

704
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: I was one hundred percent certain that she had never

705
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 2: had MS. They had forged documents using doctor's letterheads. They

706
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 2: had statements from multiple doctors that they'd tested her multiple

707
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: times that she never had MS. One hundred percent of

708
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: it was a lie.

709
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: Aaron had been paying for drugs like gaba pentten under

710
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: the impression that they were critical in managing Sabrina's MS symptoms,

711
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: but gaba penton can be used to treat a variety

712
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: of more mild conditions. After learning the truth about Sabrina's

713
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: health eron did some research and learned that she was

714
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: taking around three times over the maximum recommended dose of

715
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: gaba pentin. We don't know what she was using it for,

716
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: but the drug is often used off label for anxiety,

717
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: and if misused, it can be addictive. Sabrina Taylor defrauded

718
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: numerous victims out of over six hundred thousand dollars. She

719
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: stole this money not from strangers, but from people who

720
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: trusted her, who were concerned about her diagnosis, and who

721
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: were willing to make compromises in their own lives to

722
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: help her afford treatment and care. On July one, twenty

723
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: twenty two, she pled guilty to one count of wire

724
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: fraud for a scheme to defraud friends and acquaintances. Her

725
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: health wasn't the only thing she fabricated. Sabrina's entire identity

726
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: was a lie.

727
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: She never worked for the Gates Foundation, she never graduated

728
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: from U dub and she'd never even gotten close to

729
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: medical school, and has mostly lived her life off the

730
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: generosity of others. At this point, there.

731
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: Was one question all of her victims wanted an answer.

732
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 2: To, where was the money going.

733
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: It was the kind of thing that was impossible to

734
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: understand unless you watched it up close. Like Aaron had

735
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: watching Sabrina's bank account drain transaction by transaction, he knew

736
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: where the money went.

737
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 2: The truth is the money was just going to traveling

738
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: and shopping and not having to work. She was trying

739
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: to live the lifestyle she thought she deserved and didn't

740
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: care how many people she had to leach off of

741
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 2: to make that lifestyle happen.

742
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: When Sabrina pled guilty, the US Attorney's Office for the

743
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: Western District of Washington released a statement about her crimes.

744
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: We've had a voice actor read sections of it.

745
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 3: Taylor engaged in a sustained and calculated course of conduct

746
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: that preyed upon her victim's best emotions. Taylor used a

747
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: substantial portion of the defrauded funds to pay for luxuries,

748
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 3: such as almost sixty thousand dollars from multiple trips to

749
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 3: Japan and Korea, nearly thirty eight thousand dollars for online

750
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 3: purchases from Amazon and Etsy, more than twenty nine thousand

751
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: for clothing, and nearly sixteen thousand dollars for makeup. Taylor

752
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 3: met some of the people she defrauded online using shared

753
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 3: interests such as Japanese anime, comic books, or video games

754
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 3: to establish a relationship.

755
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: Sabrina's sentencing hearing was six months later, in January of

756
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. It was the first time Aaron had

757
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: seen her in over five years. He delivered a statement

758
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: at the hearing.

759
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: I laid out a lot of the trauma that had

760
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: come with everything that you know, my dad had basically

761
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: worked an extra year or two passed when he thought

762
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: he was going to retire to try and cover all

763
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: of my debts. Essentially, I told the judge that one

764
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 2: of her favorite tactics was to threaten to commit suicide

765
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: to get people to do what she wanted when she

766
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: wanted it done. And I think because of what I said,

767
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 2: the judge rescinded her bail and sent her into confinement

768
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: immediately because he did not want her to you try

769
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: to repeat that pattern.

770
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: Sabrina was sentenced to twenty seven months in prison. Assistant

771
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: United States Attorney Joe Silvio released a sentencing memo We've

772
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: had a voice actor read part of it.

773
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 4: Taylor carried out an extensive Frond scheme using deceit and

774
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 4: deception that preyed upon humankind's better angels. Several of Taylor's

775
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 4: victims suffered substantial financial hardship, some likely will never be

776
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 4: made whole financially. Equally as important, Taylor exploited and betrayed

777
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 4: the trust of each of her victims, and many of

778
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 4: Taylor's victims will continue to pay an emotional toll for

779
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 4: many years to come.

780
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: I was definitely a lot less anxious during the time

781
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: that I knew she was in prison. She has been

782
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: returned to the Seattle area. I know she's still around here.

783
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: Luckily I haven't run into her, but that's definitely something

784
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: that's on the back of my mind.

785
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: Even though Sabrina is it in Aaron's life anymore, her

786
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: financial abuse will affect him for a long time. It's

787
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: hard to know the exact number that Aaron spent on Sabrina,

788
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: but he estimates it was at least one hundred and

789
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. His debt severely impacted his credit, and

790
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: he'll be paying it off for years to come.

791
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: The total number I ended up owing my mom was

792
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: just short of one hundred thousand dollars. I've been paying

793
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 2: back what I could in the years since, and there

794
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 2: is no way I'll be able to pay my mom

795
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: back before she dies. I'm one of the lucky ones.

796
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: I had someone that I could borrow that kind of

797
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 2: money off of to get everything straightened out. I very

798
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 2: easily could have had to declare bankruptcy over this.

799
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: Sabrina was ordered to pay some of her victim's restitution,

800
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: but Aaron's name was not included in the list because

801
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: of statute of limitations. To Aaron, this isn't a story

802
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: about how we shouldn't trust.

803
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: She is the outlier. For every Sabrina that's out there,

804
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: there are ten thousand people who actually need the help.

805
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: To Aaron, this is a story about how we should

806
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: trust ourselves.

807
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 2: If you feel like you're being taken advantage of, or

808
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,439
Speaker 2: if you feel like you are doing everything for this

809
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 2: other person and struggling to keep your head above water,

810
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: start asking for proof. That was really what unraveled Sabrina's

811
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 2: entire con was somebody asked for the receipts.

812
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: The experience has given Aaron a new perspective on financial

813
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: and emotional abuse.

814
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: This kind of thing happens to a lot more people

815
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: than anyone realizes, and it's not something you should hold

816
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: against anybody when it happens to them. The same kind

817
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: of thing can happen to anybody under the right circumstances.

818
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: I am a lot slower to trust people then I

819
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 2: used to be, but it hasn't kept me from trusting

820
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: people at all.

821
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: We end every weekly episode with the same question, why

822
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: do you want to share your story?

823
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: These things do happen to men, and you're not less

824
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: of a man for this having happened to you. And

825
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 2: I really think that we need to be just as

826
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 2: honest as the women that are coming forward with stories

827
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 2: like these. If this story helps one person get out

828
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: or helps their friend get out of a toxic, abusive relationship,

829
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: then this was all worth it.

830
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.

831
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 5: How in the world could someone stoop that low and

832
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 5: go to that extreme? Were you too cowardly? Just tell

833
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 5: me the truth.

834
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 1: If you'd like to share your story on Betrayal, please

835
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: email Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That is Betrayalpod at

836
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Please note that we are not a

837
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: mental health organization. If you are in crisis or currently

838
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: experiencing domestic violence, we encourage you to seek local help

839
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: or dial nine to one one please contact organizations that

840
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: offer immediate support. In our show notes, we've included a

841
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: list of US based resources. You can follow us on

842
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: Instagram at Betrayal pod or find me at It's Andrea Gunning.

843
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: To access our newsletter and additional content, and to connect

844
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: with the Betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal dot

845
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: substack dot com. We're grateful for your support. One way

846
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: to show support is by subscribing to our show on

847
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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

848
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: Five star reviews go a long way. Big thank you

849
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of

850
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership

851
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy

852
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 1: Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning,

853
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: written and produced by Olivia Hewitt. Our story editor is

854
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: Monique Lebord, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer

855
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: is Leah Jablow. Production management by Kristin Melcurie, Booking support

856
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: by Curry Richmond, Voice acting by Todd Gans and Carrie Hartman.

857
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Treessica Crincheck. Audio

858
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by

859
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: Matt Delbecchio. Portrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library

860
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: provided by my Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,

861
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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

862
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