Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Congressoman Lauren Bobert says, I am
Speaker 1: not doing that when asked about the two hundred billion
Speaker 1: dollars supplemental for Iran. We have such a great show
Speaker 1: for you today. The nation's gene here stops by to
Speaker 1: talk about the very stupid ways Donald Trump is navigating
Speaker 1: the Iran war, the Iranian War. Then we'll talk to
Speaker 1: the bulwarks, Will sommer about the many strains of anti
Speaker 1: Semitism circling MAGA. But first the.
Speaker 2: News, Smiley, this headline is just unbelievable. Global oil prices
Speaker 2: struck in triple digits. We have one hundred and ten
Speaker 2: dollars a gallon oil now and Goldman sex as it
Speaker 2: may stay there for years. As I've been reporting diligent
Speaker 2: reporting on my part. I walked to my corner. I
Speaker 2: look at the gas station. We're up a dollar and
Speaker 2: sixty cents since this war started.
Speaker 1: Who could have told us that going to war in
Speaker 1: the Middle East would make gas more expensive? Everyone would
Speaker 1: have told you that, literally everyone.
Speaker 2: It literally sounds like every day we read a report
Speaker 2: that it's like this person had told them that this
Speaker 2: would happen.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were there, we were alive, Like we
Speaker 1: know what happens. And what happens is that if you
Speaker 1: go to war in the Middle East, and especially with
Speaker 1: a country that has a strait that where twenty percent
Speaker 1: of all oil, gas and fertilizer goes through that when
Speaker 1: they close it, everything is going to get more expensive.
Speaker 1: This is like tariffs, but stupider, totally unforced error, completely
Speaker 1: self created. And by the way, when you talk to
Speaker 1: oil people, when you talk to the people who are
Speaker 1: trading in these markets, they say that we are not
Speaker 1: going to be able to get back online for a
Speaker 1: long time. That this is going to be like the
Speaker 1: supply chain stuff during COVID. Oil is going to be
Speaker 1: more expensive, Fertilizer is going to be more expensive. Food's
Speaker 1: going to be more expensive. Plan tickets are going to
Speaker 1: be more expensive. You are going to feel this. Even
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump said the war is over, we win tomorrow,
Speaker 1: he won't be able to put the genie back in
Speaker 1: the bottle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Mollie, many people were shocked this morning that
Speaker 2: Trump put out a policy report. Oh my god, like
Speaker 2: this doesn't happen, but it was on AI. And you'll
Speaker 2: be really shocked to hear that it's basically trying to
Speaker 2: block states from being able to regulate AI because this
Speaker 2: administration is totally captured by the AI bosses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll be surprised to know that Trump's policies are
Speaker 1: just nothing, no regulation, no anything. Now, the good news
Speaker 1: for Trump is the democrats policies when it comes to
Speaker 1: technology are also nothing. So we are going to likely
Speaker 1: be ruled by AI OVERLA. I mean, who even knows
Speaker 1: what they'll do. It's not going to be good. Congress
Speaker 1: should pre eminently state, by the way, Congress, you'll remember
Speaker 1: Congress as the thing Donald Trump almost always ignores, should
Speaker 1: preempt state AI laws that impose undo burdens to ensure
Speaker 1: a minimally burdensome national standard consistent with these recommendations, not
Speaker 1: fifty discording ones. Here's what it is. Donald Trump gets
Speaker 1: a lot of money from the AI lobby, just like
Speaker 1: a lot of other politicians, just like Chuck Schumer, god
Speaker 1: love them, has a kid who works in technology. All
Speaker 1: of these people are low key compromised by the tech lobby.
Speaker 1: Sorry to tell you this is what it is. And
Speaker 1: so here we have Donald Trump trying to prevent state regulation.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, and you're going to see a lot
Speaker 1: of ads about kid safety. Do you know why you're
Speaker 1: going to see a lot of ads about kid safety?
Speaker 1: Tell me, because kid safety is the low hanging fruit, right,
Speaker 1: the idea that chatbots are making children kill themselves. Like
Speaker 1: if you were a government that was going to regulate anything,
Speaker 1: that might be one of the things, you know, like
Speaker 1: kids aren't supposed to smoke cigarettes, you use seatbelts, like
Speaker 1: these are things that we have learned in this century
Speaker 1: would be useful, should be useful. But that is not
Speaker 1: what's happening here, right. They are trying to make it
Speaker 1: so that there's no regulation. What I think will happen
Speaker 1: because I'm seeing this more and more is that. And
Speaker 1: you'll see this when you hear ads for like meta
Speaker 1: meta we care about your kids. They don't care about
Speaker 1: your kids, but they care about regulation. And then you
Speaker 1: don't want to be regulated, and so they'll do lots
Speaker 1: about that, say like we care about your kids, we
Speaker 1: care about online safety. What they're doing here is gas
Speaker 1: lighting you into thinking that they care about your kids
Speaker 1: in online safety, so that the government doesn't regulate them
Speaker 1: or they don't have to do any kind of safety.
Speaker 1: That's real.
Speaker 2: Yep. And it's very funny. When you read the Trade
Speaker 2: magazine's documentaries right now, all you see is every documentary
Speaker 2: is on protecting kids from social media and AI. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but why so this is a really fun report from
Speaker 2: the Times an Aran Gaberd turned intelligence duties over to Trump.
Speaker 2: That's like one of the worst headlines I've ever read
Speaker 2: in my life.
Speaker 1: Yes, so here we are Telsey Gabbard again. Telsey Gabert's
Speaker 1: job is this PDB, this Presidential Daily Brief. We know
Speaker 1: Donald Trump doesn't read it. We knew this, We've heard this,
Speaker 1: he said it. I don't know how they get it
Speaker 1: to him. So this is a headline that is about
Speaker 1: a hearing where during the Senate Intelligence Committee, Gabbard was
Speaker 1: asked whether or not Trump knew or whether or not
Speaker 1: she told Trump that there was an imminent threat, that
Speaker 1: Iran posed an imminent threat. And what they were trying
Speaker 1: to do here was trying to get her to say
Speaker 1: what everybody knew, which was that well, Iran might have
Speaker 1: gotten nuclear weapons, they didn't have them yet, and so
Speaker 1: this was actually not imminent. Was it could have happened
Speaker 1: in a year, could have happened in two years. Yes,
Speaker 1: but there was the reason he went in was because
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't because they were about to blow
Speaker 1: us up. But Tulsea just wanted to not answer this question,
Speaker 1: so she did everything she could to punt it. And
Speaker 1: here we get this headline. And again what is worth
Speaker 1: seeing is like these people and in mister Kent's letter,
Speaker 1: we talk about Joe Kent later in this episode where
Speaker 1: we talk about how he is really not a hero
Speaker 1: because he's resigning largely because of anti Semitism, But in
Speaker 1: this letter he writes that or On pose no imminence
Speaker 1: threat to our nation, which is what everyone else says.
Speaker 1: So instead of saying the truth, Tulsea had to sort
Speaker 1: of bob and weave through it. This is You're going
Speaker 1: to see this more and more. You're going to see
Speaker 1: this more and more because there's so much lying and
Speaker 1: there's so much dishonesty coming out of this advent that
Speaker 1: you see people trying to bomb and weave their way through,
Speaker 1: and so it's worth just like watching it. Eventually, some
Speaker 1: of these people will get in trouble for lying to
Speaker 1: Congress if we survive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to give you a report from one
Speaker 2: of the most dogged journalists in journalism on the subject
Speaker 2: that just came in. It's one Laura Lumer. She says,
Speaker 2: Scoop Tolci Gabbert's political staff expect that she's about to
Speaker 2: resign following the resignation of her colleague Joe Ken What
Speaker 2: for those that following at home or a lumber is
Speaker 2: not a reliable reporter. But this is very, very funny
Speaker 2: since it does not really align with her behavior ear
Speaker 2: So we'll see how it plays out because we can
Speaker 2: never tell because all the liars are always lying.
Speaker 1: Whoa correct?
Speaker 2: Speaking of the liars lying, the Trump team changed a
Speaker 2: report to hide how bad Doge made things, particularly with
Speaker 2: wait times at the Social Security Administration.
Speaker 1: Yes, so Doege cut the government and made everything just
Speaker 1: completely fucked in every which way, and now they are
Speaker 1: trying to hide what they did. So the Social Security
Speaker 1: Administration shows that just like the TSA, you're going to
Speaker 1: be waiting a long time, about forty six minutes to
Speaker 1: more than two hours. And this detail, which seems like
Speaker 1: a big deal, was taken out of the Trump administration
Speaker 1: report on that you know why, because these people are
Speaker 1: big liars and so they take stuff out and this
Speaker 1: is how we got here. We have exciting news over
Speaker 1: at our YouTube channel. The third episode is out now
Speaker 1: from our series Project twenty twenty nine, Imagining, where we
Speaker 1: examine what went wrong with democrats approach to policy and
Speaker 1: how we can correct it and deliver changes for the
Speaker 1: American people. The first episodes dove into campaign finance, reform,
Speaker 1: anti trust and regulation. Our newest episode is on how
Speaker 1: we solidify reproductive rights for women. We talk to the
Speaker 1: smartest names in the field like Abortion every Day is
Speaker 1: Jessica Valenti, the Center for Reproductive Rights, Nancy Northam, UCLA
Speaker 1: is oh and Mary Ziegler and the gout Macher Institute's
Speaker 1: Kelly Badden. Republicans were prepared for when they got the
Speaker 1: levers of power. Democrats need to be too. So please
Speaker 1: head over to YouTube and search Molly John Fast Project
Speaker 1: twenty twenty nine or go to the Fast Politics YouTube
Speaker 1: channel page and you'll find it there. Help us spread
Speaker 1: the word here as a contributor to the nation and
Speaker 1: the host of the Time of Monsters. Welcome, Welcome, ged.
Speaker 3: Here, Welcome Molly.
Speaker 1: You are here to talk about America's forever wars.
Speaker 4: Wait wait wait wait wait wait no, no, no, we
Speaker 4: elected a MAGA president who promised no more forever wars
Speaker 4: and also that he would deal with the inflation and
Speaker 4: affordability crisis.
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: No more forever wars except for this one.
Speaker 4: Yes, because we just like almost war alcoholism, So you
Speaker 4: know that that's always great logic.
Speaker 3: One last one. This is it. We're gonna We're gonna
Speaker 3: put now. I'm sure has having those thoughts on both
Speaker 3: alcohol and war.
Speaker 1: Right now, I still have a little money in my
Speaker 1: bank account, and so I'm just gonna stop off at
Speaker 1: this bar right next to the casino.
Speaker 3: That's it, that's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Obviously things are not going well with the frever war,
Speaker 4: you know, like obviously a lot of people have drawn
Speaker 4: the in lga with Iraq in two thousand and three,
Speaker 4: and there's something there. And I actually think one of
Speaker 4: the things we're witnessing now is that the insurgency in
Speaker 4: Iraq is.
Speaker 3: Building up again. I mean, this is one of the
Speaker 3: old big worries. And I believe that the US is
Speaker 3: trying to evacuate the Green Zone. It was just like
Speaker 3: the web. There were a hold onto during the Iraq War.
Speaker 4: I think listen, you should also think about another moment
Speaker 4: in American history, which is like nineteen sixty five where
Speaker 4: Lindon Johnson was drawn into Vietnam with Operation Rolling Thunder.
Speaker 4: I think it's more pertinent because the Iraq War, will remember,
Speaker 4: was sold to the American public. There was a big
Speaker 4: pr campaign weapons of mass destruction, don't let the woking
Speaker 4: gun be a mushroom cloud. Yeah, there's some of that,
Speaker 4: but I mean it's what's interesting here is like there's
Speaker 4: actually not really been a real effort to sell this,
Speaker 4: and it's more like the physician Lyndon Johnson found himself
Speaker 4: in where you know, like against I think Johnson's better judgment,
Speaker 4: he was kind of like Railroad had been presented a
Speaker 4: set of bad options where it's sold like you know,
Speaker 4: you're you're either going to lose or you have to
Speaker 4: send in another undred thousand troops, another two hundred thousand troops.
Speaker 3: It was that sort of you.
Speaker 4: Know, sinking into alcoholism situation where like you know, just
Speaker 4: a little bit more, you're going to start feeling better.
Speaker 3: And so now we're seeing like you know, like.
Speaker 4: The calls for like sending the Marines to the Strait
Speaker 4: of Hormuz and also Petexas.
Speaker 3: Like we just think that another two hundred billion dollars.
Speaker 1: Which is the cost of all of the Ukraine war stuff.
Speaker 1: It's to this moment, it's a little more. It's actually
Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars. I mean, who's counting when you get
Speaker 1: into those numbers. But it's funny because I actually was
Speaker 1: thinking about Vietnam too, and I was thinking about it
Speaker 1: because there was that same kind I mean though that
Speaker 1: said Vietnam was at least like there was we were
Speaker 1: going to bring democracy, whereas we were going to end communism.
Speaker 1: Right there was an anti communist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was an ideological restaurantal Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wait, there is almost no ideological anything for this.
Speaker 4: Right yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I mean I think Islamophobia.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, well.
Speaker 4: They're we're trying to revive that has like you know
Speaker 4: that obviously appeals to the MAGA account, but it doesn't
Speaker 4: have a wider popular purchase. I mean, there hasn't been
Speaker 4: a lot of very good justifications for the war. I mean,
Speaker 4: I think in some ways it was sold to Trump.
Speaker 4: To the Venezuela example, like you know, Venezuela went very well,
Speaker 4: you know, and this is something Crup wants to be
Speaker 4: doing stuff, And this is something a president can do,
Speaker 4: is the domestic stuff, Carter. What we're increasingly seeing is
Speaker 4: is the divergence of agendas. I mean, like Natanyao's agenda
Speaker 4: is very clear, which is like he wants regime collapse
Speaker 4: in Iran, which is not something that US wants, right
Speaker 4: as other than that, something open the American allies want
Speaker 4: in the abilities to earn Europe like that would be
Speaker 4: like a serial level of catastrophe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because clearly he was goaded into this
Speaker 1: by Israel. Plus also perhaps you know, he had Wickoff
Speaker 1: and Jared go in to negotiate, two people who are
Speaker 1: unapologetically very Zionist and very close with Nan Yahu. So
Speaker 1: you had negotiators who were a not skilled in negotiating,
Speaker 1: be had a horse in this race when it comes
Speaker 1: to Israel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and also I see like don't know anything about
Speaker 4: the come up with so the people who actually like
Speaker 4: know what around was offering were saying, like, wow, this
Speaker 4: is actually like a good deal.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Jarrek Kistner's history at Woodcoff's knowledge of New York real
Speaker 4: estate is not actually.
Speaker 3: Translate to dollarge of nuclear negotiations.
Speaker 4: And furthermore, they've actually like purged the State Department and
Speaker 4: the government of like all the people who have any
Speaker 4: knowledge of the region and could like be offering advice.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think there's a lot of backers, and
Speaker 4: you know, I did emphasize that in Yahoo. But I also,
Speaker 4: you know, like in some ways that's been used as
Speaker 4: an excuse by some of the MAGA people like Tucker
Speaker 4: Carlston to say, you know, like well, you know this
Speaker 4: Israeli trick to Trump, but you know, like Trump went
Speaker 4: along with us, and it's worth asking like why he did.
Speaker 4: And I think a lot of it was sugar high
Speaker 4: he got out of Venezuela La, which I think now
Speaker 4: in Yucker's back was.
Speaker 3: Kind of done to convince him of this.
Speaker 4: And it is like the way Rumsfield had conducted the
Speaker 4: Afghan War like a light footprint, basically paying awful lot
Speaker 4: of people so it looked like a quick, easy and
Speaker 4: letting bin Laden run away loaded, so it looked like
Speaker 4: a light, easy war.
Speaker 3: That Junior was like, oh, wars aren't good and.
Speaker 1: Easy, right, I think that's a really good point. But
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Vietnam for a minute,
Speaker 1: because what happened with Vietnam is really I think worse
Speaker 1: thinking about for a minute, because we had more that
Speaker 1: we could not get out of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for.
Speaker 1: Pretty much, I mean president after president. One of the
Speaker 1: things with Iran is that it's a huge country, right,
Speaker 1: It makes a rock look like Rhode Island. So I
Speaker 1: want you to talk about besides the twenty percent of
Speaker 1: all liquid natural gap you know, LNG and oil and
Speaker 1: fertilizer that go through the Strait, there's still also which
Speaker 1: is a huge country, and if the regime fell, you
Speaker 1: would have a refugee crisis, like you can't believe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I know that's absolutely the case.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean there's two possible situations, both of
Speaker 4: which are bad. Which is one is that they could
Speaker 4: I think the more likely one is that actually the
Speaker 4: regime won't fall, and this is apparently what the intelligence
Speaker 4: community thinks, that it's actually quite a resilient regime.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think one.
Speaker 4: Thing is that it is not unlike you know, Saddam
Speaker 4: Hussein's Iraq. It is not just a preserved personality cult
Speaker 4: of a family, and it's retainers. It has an ideologic
Speaker 4: and ideology and also a wide popular base. I mean
Speaker 4: the Iranian Revolution, if you look at the ir GC,
Speaker 4: you know, you're talking about like hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 4: people and their families, which was like prepared for all this.
Speaker 4: I mean like they knew, oh you know, because they've
Speaker 4: had twenty five years of experience of this, the really
Speaker 4: can kill their leaders and they had the dispersed leadership
Speaker 4: and dispersed group. So but also like just as you
Speaker 4: mentioned the terrain, it's like a vast be lots of mountains.
Speaker 4: They have like done a lot of digging, there's a
Speaker 4: lot of like the radio that it's like deep underground,
Speaker 4: which again the Vietnam analogy, like you have a people
Speaker 4: that are prepared for war, that are prepared to like
Speaker 4: live underground to find dead. And the other aspect is
Speaker 4: that the nature of war has changed. We've seen this
Speaker 4: in Ukraine that grown technology gives us certain advantage over
Speaker 4: American high tech, which we haven't really the American military
Speaker 4: hasn't been able to grapple with and so so the
Speaker 4: you know, there's actually quite a resilient and powerful regime.
Speaker 4: So but that's actually the best case scenario around holds
Speaker 4: and continues to to voke because yeah, I was thinking,
Speaker 4: which is actually he thought, you know, we just need
Speaker 4: to send in a few more marines and then this
Speaker 4: whole thing will collapse. And the thing is, like, you know,
Speaker 4: like their idea is first of all, they're they're they're
Speaker 4: fostering they're allied with like groups that are very unpopular with.
Speaker 4: The two big groups that the US has allied with
Speaker 4: are the Family of the Shah, the monarchy, you know,
Speaker 4: which is like you know, like exactly these people who
Speaker 4: are like, you know, the real housewives of Los Angeles, right, yeah,
Speaker 4: you haven't been in the country for forty years, and
Speaker 4: are you know, not going to be popular. And then
Speaker 4: also another group called the m K, which is like
Speaker 4: a formerly Marxist cult with their own version of Islam,
Speaker 4: which is like hugely hated in Iran as well. So
Speaker 4: the Israeli strategy is to like use these outside group
Speaker 4: to foment this and and.
Speaker 3: To like foster civil war. Civil war.
Speaker 4: Yes, and they think, you know, like as in Syria,
Speaker 4: that this would actually be good for them, But I mean,
Speaker 4: like I don't think it's actually good. We already saw
Speaker 4: what Syria did like to the region, huge refugee crisis. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's and also like a state collapse of a state
Speaker 4: that has a lot of weapons. I actually has like
Speaker 4: nuclear material. People they're like they like, just like game
Speaker 4: this out here, where this could go. There's a lot
Speaker 4: of very bad directions.
Speaker 1: Yes, And it's also just a huge country. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like a third of America. I mean, it's these
Speaker 1: is a lot of people to get going into a war.
Speaker 1: What I want to talk about with you is the
Speaker 1: censorship in the rest of the golf, because there is
Speaker 1: this very interesting phenomenon happening in the golf where you
Speaker 1: have all of these very modern Islamic states, right, you know,
Speaker 1: we have the Emirates, we have Katar. We have countries
Speaker 1: that are like what Lebanon was supposed to be. They
Speaker 1: are fabulous countries. I mean, you couldn't have problems with
Speaker 1: the way they were built or how they run because
Speaker 1: they used slave labor, which is unacceptable. But they have
Speaker 1: you know, hotels and casinos and people live there so
Speaker 1: they don't have to pay taxes. And it's very European
Speaker 1: and you know that was something that was not in
Speaker 1: Go War one, Golf War two. We didn't have them.
Speaker 1: We didn't you're you know, it wasn't all built up
Speaker 1: like that. These countries have a lot of censorship. Yes,
Speaker 1: So if you're a social media influencer, which like eighty
Speaker 1: percent of Dubai is, you can't necessarily share what you're seeing.
Speaker 1: I want you to talk through what that means for
Speaker 1: this moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, obviously there's a lot of censorship.
Speaker 4: It does seem like there's a lot of reasons to
Speaker 4: think that the Iranian has been actually like getting through
Speaker 4: a lot of their drones and missilets and causing a
Speaker 4: lot of damage. And if you just think about the
Speaker 4: sort of social structure of these societies, as you said,
Speaker 4: like there's kind of like a great places to be rich.
Speaker 4: It is like, you know, like getting Beverly Hills as
Speaker 4: you're being like, you know, the unit for war, right,
Speaker 4: like let's organize the militia of Beverly Hills, you know,
Speaker 4: like society or sociologically, you're talking about ten percent of
Speaker 4: the population that are these Arab monarch you know, royal families,
Speaker 4: another ten percent are the European tax cheats, eighty percent
Speaker 4: are like indentured servants like the Philippies, in India, you know.
Speaker 3: Like that's so like a warrior society.
Speaker 4: Like I know a lot of what the US has
Speaker 4: been trying to just encouraged these societies as the ones
Speaker 4: that are going to join in and in the war,
Speaker 4: which is like I don't actually see it, and I
Speaker 4: already want to see all sorts of like sort of
Speaker 4: side effects, one of which is like these are you know, Katar,
Speaker 4: we know had bribed Trump, but they're also had been
Speaker 4: giving huge amounts of money to El Mousk Silicon Valley,
Speaker 4: funding all the AI stuff. And now you're seeing a
Speaker 4: lot of the AI people, but they're really worried, you know,
Speaker 4: like you know, okay, do not an assessor sound bite.
Speaker 4: You remember what Trump did the Board of Piece and
Speaker 4: they talked about let's turn Gaza into Dubai. Well, actually
Speaker 4: they turned Dubai, as my friend David Cleon said, They've
Speaker 4: turned Dubai into Gaza.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean not quite yet, but that's.
Speaker 3: They're getting there. They're getting there, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: We can't tell because it's illegal if your social media
Speaker 1: influencer to share these videos. So we saw a few
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 3: Said Israel as well.
Speaker 4: I mean like it's actually astonishing the difference between what
Speaker 4: is one is served peering from people in Israel and
Speaker 4: like the complete dearth of images. But yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: like this war is having a huge impact on these areas.
Speaker 1: And we're not seeing any of that, yeah, which is
Speaker 1: kind of strange. Like it's funny because I always think about,
Speaker 1: like my grandfather blacklisted during the House of an American
Speaker 1: activities in the nineteen forties, late forties, early fifties. I
Speaker 1: always say, like the media then was very regulated, right,
Speaker 1: they had censorship. You know, you couldn't show things unless
Speaker 1: you were allowed to show them. You had to clear
Speaker 1: things with the government. Well, the Trump government is probably
Speaker 1: a little more nefarious. It's not so much more nefarious
Speaker 1: than those old governments in the fifties and sixties where
Speaker 1: they had their finger on the scale. But with the Internet,
Speaker 1: with TikTok, with Instagram, the censorship is pretty intense.
Speaker 3: It's incredibly intense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know we're not getting a good
Speaker 4: image of the war. I mean there's also like you know,
Speaker 4: in terms of like the government census show, I mean
Speaker 4: the casualty figures, yeah, oc casually they sort of late
Speaker 4: leak out, and the thing is like you know, there's
Speaker 4: like the people killed, but like you know, like as
Speaker 4: we saw in Iraq, like actually the vast number of
Speaker 4: people who are like wounded or traumatized or whatever. And
Speaker 4: we have like no sense of that except that it
Speaker 4: already seems to be like at least in the hundreds,
Speaker 4: you know, if not thousands. But obviously the governments in
Speaker 4: the region have some sense, and they I mean ideal.
Speaker 4: I think the Gulf States are so trapped between pressure
Speaker 4: from the America to join in, and you know, their
Speaker 4: anger at Iran for being attacked, but also their anger
Speaker 4: at the US and Israel for like having caused this war.
Speaker 4: And if you look at like Trump's like he did
Speaker 4: actually did a tweet this morning, his returnal strategy is
Speaker 4: to say to NATO and to the Gulf State allies,
Speaker 4: you know, we don't need you, your pathetic, your losers.
Speaker 4: Oh by the way, can you help us this strait
Speaker 4: of from us? You know, it's is like literally you
Speaker 4: start tweeting out this morning, and I mean it's basically
Speaker 4: a neggting strategy, you know, like while you're disgusting and pathetic,
Speaker 4: let's go for dinner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it is like the Europeans. And it's funny
Speaker 1: because I was just talking to different people are in
Speaker 1: Europe and they really fucking hate US. I mean, you're
Speaker 1: in Canada, so you can tell me about this, but
Speaker 1: like the Europeans hate US. Everyone in Scandinavia fucking hates
Speaker 1: US for the Greenland staff, Like, so talk us to
Speaker 1: what our allies look like at this moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I yeah, I mean I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 4: I think there's like a huge intense level of anti
Speaker 4: Americans on a popular level, Like I think, yeah, like
Speaker 4: you know, I know you want to see it impulse.
Speaker 4: I mean, like the US is now considered you know,
Speaker 4: more grain gifts in China in like all the ally countries.
Speaker 4: I mean on the government level, like obviously you have
Speaker 4: governments that are tied into NATO that are relying on
Speaker 4: US military exports for things like the Ukraine War. And
Speaker 4: so therefore I started like walking on tiptoes, but are
Speaker 4: also like kind of thinking like how.
Speaker 3: Do we get out of this?
Speaker 4: How do we like you know, it's like you're in
Speaker 4: a toxic relationship and you got to think, like, Okay,
Speaker 4: what stuff can I move into my friend's house? Like today,
Speaker 4: so so so that like, you know, like if I
Speaker 4: have to run away next week, everything is in place,
Speaker 4: like what bank accounts will have to change. I think
Speaker 4: people are looking for an exit strategy, not just from
Speaker 4: Trump but from the US, and I think that's what
Speaker 4: Carney's uh, you know, famous speech was all about, Like
Speaker 4: not about immediate action because they are really tied to
Speaker 4: the US in a lot of ways, but long term,
Speaker 4: like you know, like how we build ties with China,
Speaker 4: right that are at least not run by lunatics.
Speaker 1: It's so dark, It is so incredibly dark.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm all a find of the Chinese government,
Speaker 4: but like they have at least some interesting stability like
Speaker 4: they seem to want to have, like the world trade
Speaker 4: run smoothly. I mean we're basically heavy towards a global
Speaker 4: depression that was caused by two men like Trump and Nehingahu.
Speaker 4: The larger consequences of that for both Israel and the
Speaker 4: United States are like, you know, they're not going to
Speaker 4: be good.
Speaker 1: Yeah gee, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh, but the fund never ends.
Speaker 1: Will Sohmer is a reporter at The Bulwark and the
Speaker 1: author of Trust the Plan. Hello Will Soma.
Speaker 5: Hey, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1: Do you remember when we used to know. Anyway, I
Speaker 1: was going to reminisce, but no one wants.
Speaker 5: That good old days.
Speaker 1: Yes, the good old days. Okay, now we have the
Speaker 1: good new days. Candace Owens versus Erica Kirk discuss Yeah.
Speaker 5: So you know, obviously this has been going on for
Speaker 5: a couple months, but as we join here today, there's
Speaker 5: been a bit of a development. Candace or her or
Speaker 5: sort of her acolytes, appear to have gotten their hands
Speaker 5: on Erica Kirk's shopping registry or shopping history at the
Speaker 5: Aloe Yoga Company. People may know these are the ubiquitous
Speaker 5: clothes and the hats with the logo. You know, if
Speaker 5: you're on vander Pumper rules, you're probably wearing them a lot.
Speaker 1: It's yoga clothing that basically just looks like it comes
Speaker 1: from the gap.
Speaker 5: Yes, and you know, not my style, but people love it.
Speaker 1: Very expensive.
Speaker 5: So this week someone got her Erica's essentially receipts. Presumably
Speaker 5: someone within the ALO leaked her shopping history and it
Speaker 5: showed that I think the day after Charlie Kirk was shot,
Speaker 5: she had bought a bunch of clothes at ALO. And
Speaker 5: now this was well, there's an explanation. But basically, you know,
Speaker 5: this plays into the kind of like Erica Kirk is
Speaker 5: this feeling, this queen who went on a on a
Speaker 5: you know, an aloe shopping spree after her husband's murder.
Speaker 5: Now one of Erica's associates has said, well, you know,
Speaker 5: we had to fly out to Utah. No one had
Speaker 5: any clothes because we didn't pack bags, and so she
Speaker 5: gave me her credit card to go buy some outfits
Speaker 5: for people, which I think makes some sense. But this
Speaker 5: is really being taken as like, you know, just another
Speaker 5: a bit of a proof of the conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1: This is so stupid. I'm sorry, I so, but I
Speaker 1: want to We're going to talk about this for another minute.
Speaker 1: So Candice Owens basically believes that Charlie Kirk was murdered
Speaker 1: for speaking out about Israel.
Speaker 5: That's right, yes, And like you know, it can be
Speaker 5: a little hard to like get a handle on it
Speaker 5: because there's like so many characters. Like at some point
Speaker 5: she'll say the French Foreign Legion was involved, or she
Speaker 5: said that there was like a cult that worships bees
Speaker 5: that might have been involved. But kind of where it
Speaker 5: stands the like it's sort of the one takeaway that
Speaker 5: you should have is that you know, yes, she thinks
Speaker 5: Charlie Kirk was murdered for opposing a future or with
Speaker 5: Iran and Israel, did it okay?
Speaker 1: Candice Owens really hate Macrone and he's like, she's like
Speaker 1: obsessed with missus McCrone. I want you to talk about
Speaker 1: that backstory. You've come on and talked about it before,
Speaker 1: but just explain why France might figure into this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So when she left the Daily Wire, she was
Speaker 5: looking for kind of like a thing that would you know,
Speaker 5: make her career big, and she latched onto these old
Speaker 5: claims that Brigitte Macrone, the first Lady of France, is
Speaker 5: trans and not just that, but that she's part of
Speaker 5: a sort of centuries old criminal trans cabal that is
Speaker 5: also needless to say, Jewish, and so she.
Speaker 1: One would hope.
Speaker 5: So she got really into this and now the Macrones
Speaker 5: are suing her, you know, I think credibly she's claimed
Speaker 5: that Trump with the Macrones asked Trump to to shut
Speaker 5: her up essentially, and so now of course the Macrones
Speaker 5: have been folded into this, and it's a convenient conspiracy
Speaker 5: theory to sort of act like anything French or French
Speaker 5: American or anything is evil because you'll look, I mean,
Speaker 5: French is the major economy, so you look around and
Speaker 5: you go, oh my gosh, this guy's French. Or the
Speaker 5: DuPont family, the Pont Chemical company is French. And so
Speaker 5: so it's a very lucrative, you know, vein for her
Speaker 5: to mine.
Speaker 1: I also think that when we talk about Candace, she's
Speaker 1: constantly this is a thing conspiracy theorists do. She's constantly
Speaker 1: trying to connect things. Yes, so France, McCrone, anti trans,
Speaker 1: anti Semitism, like there are different veins in the party
Speaker 1: where they're already I mean, MAGA has already anti Semites
Speaker 1: and it has anti trans people. So this is a
Speaker 1: way to get all of those different groups engaged, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean I think you're right on the money. I mean,
Speaker 5: and you can you know, you can draw in. I mean,
Speaker 5: she all these characters are people that you know, she's
Speaker 5: kind of slimed in the past. Or she'll say, well,
Speaker 5: you know, Harrika Kirk went to a charter school, and
Speaker 5: you know who really promotes charter schools as Bill Gates,
Speaker 5: and you know we all know about Bill Gates. And
Speaker 5: then you know, I mean, it is these things that
Speaker 5: are so broad, Like she'll say this charter school had
Speaker 5: a lot of Jewish teachers, you know, like, you know,
Speaker 5: what do you think of that? So you know, she's
Speaker 5: pulling in all these things, and she's playing on this
Speaker 5: kind of post October seventh, this discontent among young people,
Speaker 5: even a lot of young Republicans with Israel, and so
Speaker 5: she's kind of drawing all these different threads in.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think is really important
Speaker 1: to sort of pause and talk about here for a
Speaker 1: minute is that her anti Semitism. She felt that Charlie
Speaker 1: Kirk was kind of hers Yes, I want you to
Speaker 1: talk that through.
Speaker 5: This is interesting. I mean there's obviously a lot of
Speaker 5: speculation that because you know she's out with this series,
Speaker 5: this Bride of Charlie suggesting you know, after for a
Speaker 5: while she was going after the French Foreign Legion or whatever.
Speaker 5: And then now in the past, you know, ever since
Speaker 5: they had this kind of peace summit broker by Megan
Speaker 5: Kelly in December that pos did not work, and now
Speaker 5: I mean, who better of a conciliator And now she's
Speaker 5: sort of directly hitting her, hitting Erica Kirk. And so
Speaker 5: you know, people are saying oh, you know, Candice was
Speaker 5: in love with Charlie Kirk. All this stuff me. I
Speaker 5: don't like to speculate. However, I will say in the
Speaker 5: past couple of weeks it's gotten a bit odd. She's saying, well,
Speaker 5: here's Eric Kirk telling the story of how she met Charlie,
Speaker 5: and it's like they were in an airport whatever, they
Speaker 5: bumped in on it. But then Cannas says, but what
Speaker 5: Erica Kirk leaves out is that I was there too,
Speaker 5: and you know why she cutting me out of the story.
Speaker 5: And if you take this out outside of the realm
Speaker 5: of politics and YouTube drama and whatever, if you had
Speaker 5: a situation where there was like a girl best friend
Speaker 5: who was saying and then his girlfriend never mentions how
Speaker 5: that I was there when they met, you say, huh,
Speaker 5: is there something going on here? Is this an affair
Speaker 5: of the heart.
Speaker 1: It is also, though, easy to love someone who's no
Speaker 1: longer here, right, Like, it's part of that. You can
Speaker 1: lieonize someone who's dead, especially someone who gets murdered. But
Speaker 1: what I want to talk about here is that Candace
Speaker 1: is actually super popular. This is not some rando like
Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking. You and I for years
Speaker 1: and years and years, and it used to be these
Speaker 1: people were really on the fringes, right. You would go
Speaker 1: to Seapack, you would see the guy with the brick
Speaker 1: wall suit, you would see the MyPillow guy. You would think, well,
Speaker 1: these are very fringe characters, and yes they're hilarious, but
Speaker 1: they're really on the outskirts. But explain to our listeners
Speaker 1: just how popular Candice Owans is, because she is, like
Speaker 1: I mean, she's basically she's got a sort of level
Speaker 1: of fame that is pretty intense.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean the brick wall suit guy, you know,
Speaker 5: his name is brick Suit. He's basically the Republican establishment
Speaker 5: at this point. Is he'll go out there and say like,
Speaker 5: well the canus is getting a little crazy, you know,
Speaker 5: I think, I mean, she's really enormously popular. And that's
Speaker 5: a good thing to underline in a way that I
Speaker 5: think a lot of these people, even like someone like
Speaker 5: Laura Lumer, who like is interesting, it is influential in
Speaker 5: her own way. But Cannas has broken out into kind
Speaker 5: of the broader, mainstream, non Trump world like d git celebrity. Oh,
Speaker 5: I mean, her podcast right now is kind of trading
Speaker 5: the number one spot with Rogan on Apple and so
Speaker 5: I mean, this is like really an enormous thing. And
Speaker 5: when you watch her show, and I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: it is really like, you know, she's endorsed the idea
Speaker 5: that like Jewish people drink children's blood and stuff. I
Speaker 5: mean it is like Hidlarry Levels stuff, and all these
Speaker 5: people are consuming it. I mean, I was getting my
Speaker 5: haircut and the barber was, you know, otherwise a liberal woman,
Speaker 5: and she said, you know, oh, but you know, I
Speaker 5: gotta say Kennist was really onto something with this idea
Speaker 5: that Erica Kirk murdered her husband what And I hear
Speaker 5: this a lot just kind of out in the world,
Speaker 5: and so you know, it's you know, each of her
Speaker 5: videos is pulling three four million on YouTube, which is
Speaker 5: are like enormous numbers, and she's doing it four times
Speaker 5: a week, I think. And so I mean, this is
Speaker 5: someone who does really have a lot of influence in
Speaker 5: the culture. Broadly.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Lumour to get us to
Speaker 1: Joe Kent. I saw a tweet yesterday from Laura Lumor
Speaker 1: that I was convinced was not real. Do you know
Speaker 1: the tweet I'm talking about.
Speaker 5: Well, she just met with the Dali Lama?
Speaker 3: Was that it?
Speaker 1: Did she really meet with the Dali Lama.
Speaker 5: She's on the tour of India, She's on her Nirvana quest.
Speaker 1: Oh man, No, I'm going to read you this tweet
Speaker 1: because I think it's really important, and it's also more
Speaker 1: important than that. It also I think speaks to some
Speaker 1: of what's happening now in this I literally saw it
Speaker 1: and I was like, that can't be real. You know,
Speaker 1: as I do many times a day, that can't be real.
Speaker 1: I used to mock Democrats when they said the future
Speaker 1: of the GOP is Nazism. They were not wrong. Tucker
Speaker 1: has been glorifying Hitler on his show. Kent lost his
Speaker 1: congressional campaign when he was exposed for going on a
Speaker 1: Nazi adjacent podcast. This is after Cernovich said a Tucker
Speaker 1: Carlson Joe Kent ticket would steamroller anything Democrats or Republicans
Speaker 1: could bring.
Speaker 2: Go.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I too have been thinking about
Speaker 5: the Tucker Carlson Joe Kent ticket. So yeah. So, Laura,
Speaker 5: it's funny. I think when she's referring to the Nazi
Speaker 5: adjacent podcast, I think she's talking about Joe Kent's sort
Speaker 5: of frenemy relationship with Nick Fuentes. Now, who else has
Speaker 5: hung out a lot with Nick Fuentes and appeared at
Speaker 5: his conferences.
Speaker 1: Laura Louverer.
Speaker 5: This idea, I mean, I mean she's right on, Like,
Speaker 5: I mean, there is this like Groyper, the Nick Fuente's followers.
Speaker 5: I mean, we see like every few months we get
Speaker 5: a young Republican operative racist group chat leak where I
Speaker 5: mean the people who are really kind of like the
Speaker 5: future of the Republican Party are just like insanely racist.
Speaker 5: I mean, there was one that came out among Miami
Speaker 5: operatives a few weeks ago that was just nuts. So,
Speaker 5: I mean, I think she's right on there. I mean
Speaker 5: she's in a sort of challenging position. A lot of
Speaker 5: the energy, the dynamoism in right wing media right now, unfortunately,
Speaker 5: is with these anti Semites. People who kind of play
Speaker 5: with it, are deep in it, you know, whether it's
Speaker 5: Nick Fente's, Tucker Carlson, Candastanes and Laura is Jewish obviously
Speaker 5: and very pro Israel, and so she's kind of stuck
Speaker 5: in this world with Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin, I
Speaker 5: think they're losing audience share. I mean I think on
Speaker 5: one hand, I mean, obviously they were able to get
Speaker 5: a war with Iran, But I think that like.
Speaker 1: She puts too fine a point of yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Mean, she's kind of jammed up there, and so I
Speaker 5: think now she's belatedly realizing, like, wait a minute, was
Speaker 5: it wrong for me to platform a Holocaust? And I
Speaker 5: are like Nick went'es, like, you know, I don't think
Speaker 5: they're the's gonna be a ton of introspection there.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this idea that we're seeing this
Speaker 1: anti semitism vein, because I want you to tell the
Speaker 1: story of Joe Kent. He works under Tulsi in whatever
Speaker 1: it is Tulsi does, he decides to resign. This is like,
Speaker 1: we have yet to see anyone break with Trump as right,
Speaker 1: You basically can only get kicked out if you do
Speaker 1: a grift so big it's like the same amount of
Speaker 1: money as making two Barbies, right the movie. But otherwise
Speaker 1: you can't. You basically can't ever get kicked out. And
Speaker 1: nobody ever breaks with him despite the fact that he's
Speaker 1: doing absolutely the opposite of everything he promised on the campaign,
Speaker 1: except Joe Kent. So talk us through that.
Speaker 5: I mean, Joe Ken had this. You know, he ran
Speaker 5: for Congress twice. He got beat by Marie Glues and
Speaker 5: camp Perez is obviously kind of a prominent politician herself,
Speaker 5: but he was really this guy that I think people
Speaker 5: in this more at the America first they're Marjorie Taylor Green, Tucker,
Speaker 5: Carlson wing thought. You know, he had this extensive military background.
Speaker 5: His wife was killed in an ISIS bombing, and so
Speaker 5: he had this kind of claim to be like, look,
Speaker 5: I'm like a tough national security guy, but I'm sick
Speaker 5: of these forever wars. He had this real background, He's handsome,
Speaker 5: you know, he's kind of like it looks like a
Speaker 5: war guy. And so I think there was a lot
Speaker 5: of political hope placed on him. And as you said,
Speaker 5: he was working for Tulsea Gabbard. They're in this kind
Speaker 5: of like non Neocon wing of the administration. And I
Speaker 5: think him quitting is really interesting. For one thing, he
Speaker 5: didn't leave quietly. He didn't just sort of resign and
Speaker 5: lead us to assume why he'd resigned. You know, he
Speaker 5: said Trump is being misled. I mean, he really went
Speaker 5: on the war path, and I think it puts an
Speaker 5: interesting amount of pressure. I think this war. If you
Speaker 5: look at the polls, yes, you know, eighty eighty five
Speaker 5: percent of Republican voters are okay with the war. But
Speaker 5: I don't think there's like a lot of like energy
Speaker 5: like we gotta do the war. On the other hand,
Speaker 5: the opponents of the war are really energized, and I
Speaker 5: think in a few years or even a few months,
Speaker 5: this could be a situation where anyone who's sort of
Speaker 5: supported the war in the administration is going to be
Speaker 5: really damaged politically. And so Joe Kent is kind of
Speaker 5: raising the stakes and he's saying, I think if you
Speaker 5: want to run for president, someone like Marco Ruby or
Speaker 5: j D. Dance. These people aren't going to resign obviously,
Speaker 5: but they're gonna, I think, face tougher questions about their
Speaker 5: role in the war because someone like Joe Kent was
Speaker 5: able to resign.
Speaker 1: Joe Kent is not a Miles Taylor. We will not
Speaker 1: be seeing him on MSNBC. Explain why.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, he's a very unsaving guy. I mean
Speaker 5: in terms of his associations. You know, I mentioned Nick Fuentes,
Speaker 5: he had a proud Boy working for his campaign. He
Speaker 5: really kind of emerges from these right wing fever swamps.
Speaker 5: And if you read his resignation letter, he says, you know, well,
Speaker 5: my wife was killed in this war created by Israel.
Speaker 5: I mean we're talking about isis like the serience Civil War.
Speaker 5: I guess you know. I mean he's a guy who's
Speaker 5: like very anti Israel, and it is coming from it
Speaker 5: from a very what we would you know, call like
Speaker 5: a paleocon, this kind of isolationist right wing point of view,
Speaker 5: someone who like you know, from the Steve Bannon point
Speaker 5: of view, is like anti semitism. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 5: anti semitism, this idea of like, well, we should not
Speaker 5: be doing these wars because I want to focus on
Speaker 5: using political capital for nefarious things domestically and like deportations.
Speaker 5: And so you're right, he doesn't really fit into this
Speaker 5: sort of never Trump mold.
Speaker 1: No, he is not going to be organ at the
Speaker 1: bulwark where you are.
Speaker 5: He's not going to the cubicle next to me.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, he's really like, you know, national socialist. Now,
Speaker 1: this is why he has such a tight relationship with Tucker.
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about this. So what the
Speaker 1: war has done has made the people who are anti war.
Speaker 1: So this is like the weird VENN diagram. Right, I'm
Speaker 1: anti war. I hate war. I think it's stupid, I
Speaker 1: think it's expensive. I think it's not our job. But
Speaker 1: Tucker Cross and his anti war but for a very
Speaker 1: different reason. So explain sort of the anti Semitism, anti
Speaker 1: war stuff that we're seeing pop up in the party.
Speaker 5: Sure, I mean, so there is this, you know, from
Speaker 5: people who are just sort of about American support to Israel.
Speaker 5: But then I think often that shades pretty easily into
Speaker 5: anti Semitism. Someone like Candice Owen's I mean, Tucker Carlson
Speaker 5: had said, you know, the Hubbab Jewish organization had sort
Speaker 5: of led America into this war. There is this sense
Speaker 5: I think of like, you know, once you start saying,
Speaker 5: you know, Israel's like pulling all the strings, I think
Speaker 5: pretty quickly it becomes anti Semitic. There's just like a
Speaker 5: lot of energy in that group right now, even if
Speaker 5: the administration, I mean they seem to have very little
Speaker 5: influence over it. I mean, Tucker Carlson has claimed, you know,
Speaker 5: he was going to the White House to try to
Speaker 5: stop the war. Obviously he failed. Now both Tucker and
Speaker 5: Joe Kent are reportedly under some kind of Justice Department investigation,
Speaker 5: and so I think that group they have a lot
Speaker 5: of energy with the grassroots. And that's why I think
Speaker 5: in a year or two, we're going to be looking
Speaker 5: at this as something really notable that he resigned.
Speaker 1: One of the great things about this administration is you
Speaker 1: can't tell who's lying. So do you think they're under investigation?
Speaker 1: Do you think I'm going to give you multiple choice here.
Speaker 1: Do you think someone told them they were under investigation
Speaker 1: to scare them but they're not really under investigation, or
Speaker 1: do you think they're actually under investigation.
Speaker 5: Well, let's say it one by one. I mean in
Speaker 5: the case of Joe Kent, I mean semaphore. Notice all
Speaker 5: these people have reported it with like mini sources that
Speaker 5: there is this leak investigation into Joe Kent, supposedly for
Speaker 5: a leaking to Tucker. I mean, come on, like Tucker's
Speaker 5: in the White House constantly. I mean, it strikes me
Speaker 5: it's not like he's leaking to Russia or something, you know,
Speaker 5: it strikes me as really pretextual.
Speaker 1: And they said Tucker talking to foreign governments.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, and then that goes into the Tucker side
Speaker 5: of it. So he claimed that the CIA made a
Speaker 5: criminal referral to the Justice Department over his contacts with
Speaker 5: Iranians or people kind of associated with the Iranian cause. Tucker,
Speaker 5: it's obviously kind of a hard guy nailed down what's true.
Speaker 5: I suspect he's not making it up out of whole cloth.
Speaker 5: Mark Caputo did some reporting claiming that, well, there's not
Speaker 5: a CIA investigation. But you know, I feel like these
Speaker 5: things could be shaded in different ways, And as you said,
Speaker 5: perhaps it was kind of like, hey watch out, Tucker.
Speaker 5: You know, maybe you should clam up a little bit.
Speaker 5: It's interesting, though, and I think if there were a
Speaker 5: prosecution of either of them, it would be I mean,
Speaker 5: obviously you don't need me to tell you. It would
Speaker 5: be an apollcable moment in the MAGA media civil war.
Speaker 5: The idea of like we're going to send Joe Kent,
Speaker 5: this kind of martyr for this right wing anti war cause,
Speaker 5: We're going to try to send him to prison, particularly
Speaker 5: when the Trump administration has flouted has basically anyone who's
Speaker 5: a Trump supporter gets to break the law at will
Speaker 5: and get a pardon, I think would be crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one last question, because you keep mentioning this and
Speaker 1: I think it's important. I just want your opinion here.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like this anti Semitism, anti interventionist wing
Speaker 1: of the party is strong enough so that it might
Speaker 1: take over MAGA.
Speaker 5: I think there's a very good chance it will take
Speaker 5: over MAGA. I mean, I think particularly when you talk
Speaker 5: about young people, you know, I think there's this kind
Speaker 5: of classic like the Boomer Cohn right, like these like
Speaker 5: classic like Sean Hannity viewers. Obviously there's a lot of them,
Speaker 5: but you know they're not going to live forever and someday,
Speaker 5: I think when you just look at the young people,
Speaker 5: I mean, look, look, take another example, James fish Back
Speaker 5: down in Florida running for governor, a guy with an
Speaker 5: unbelievably terrible resume, a Charlotte and you know, more than
Speaker 5: two million dollars in deck currently, like just totally manufacture
Speaker 5: this campaign at a whole cloth. And yet because he's
Speaker 5: aligned himself with Nick Fuentes, because he's been critical of Israel,
Speaker 5: he goes to the Dennys that have a campaign Evander
Speaker 5: the waffle House and he's mobbed with young people. And
Speaker 5: so look, he's not going to win the primary. But
Speaker 5: I think there is a real and if you had
Speaker 5: a candidate, you know, he obviously has these these allegations
Speaker 5: about a relationship with a seventeen year old when he
Speaker 5: was in his twenties, this illegal relationship. If you had
Speaker 5: a candidate who wasn't facing all those issues, I think
Speaker 5: they'd be doing a lot better. And obviously there are
Speaker 5: a lot of them, and so I think potentially this
Speaker 5: kind of shows the way for these kind of groper
Speaker 5: type candidates to have a lot more success. Not good, Molly,
Speaker 5: If I can make one more point, you can look
Speaker 5: at Megan Kelly, who I think is really kind of
Speaker 5: going where the wind blows, and she's very much avoiding
Speaker 5: fighting someone like Candace or Nick Fuentes, And I think
Speaker 5: that tells you all you need to know about the
Speaker 5: direction of the party.
Speaker 1: Not great, not great, Thank you well.
Speaker 5: So yeah, thanks for having me. They're no more perfectly.
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, I jump fast.
Speaker 2: Would you be shocked if I told you that the
Speaker 2: Trump administration is messing with the census to try to
Speaker 2: make it so that undocumented people are not counted and
Speaker 2: other things that will help them get Congress back since
Speaker 2: their policies are unpopular.
Speaker 1: Yep, I would not be shocked. I would not be surprised.
Speaker 1: I would absolutely believe that one hundred percent. Is it true?
Speaker 2: According to this article in one of our favorite newsletters,
Speaker 2: Notice it is true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe it. Trump World tried to fuck with
Speaker 1: the census in its first administration. They will do it again.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it works for them, but they're
Speaker 1: certainly going to try. That's what we're looking at here.
Speaker 1: So I believe it. I know it to be true.
Speaker 1: They're also going to make it very intrusive so that
Speaker 1: people won't necessarily want to fill it out because they'll
Speaker 1: be scared. Remember, world has this really scary ice situation
Speaker 1: where we do really find that a lot people are scared.
Speaker 1: And again, that's why they want to use them for
Speaker 1: the midterms. That's why they want to put their finger
Speaker 1: on the scale with the census, because they know that
Speaker 1: none of this is popular. That's it for this episode
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